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Speaker 1: The Prime Minister is whether it's in the studio, very

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Speaker 1: good morning to you.

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Speaker 2: What it might good to be with you.

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Speaker 1: Did anything tangible come out of Choggham?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I mean it was the first chogg and

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Speaker 2: we're held on the Pacific apart from being in Australia

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Speaker 2: and New Zealand. Pretty interesting group actually fifty six countries,

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Speaker 2: most of them small island developing states. And really it

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Speaker 2: was the RPA Ocean's Declaration and one of the big

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Speaker 2: features of that was that actually recognizing the sovereignty of

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Speaker 2: the current eess that exists around these island nations and

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Speaker 2: if they deal with the future of sea rise and

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Speaker 2: we don't want those easy shrinking and so that actually

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Speaker 2: was quite a good win to put out there on

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Speaker 2: the record, I think, which was good, good outcome.

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Speaker 1: What does that even mean? None of that made sense

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Speaker 1: to me. What it means is down on a piece

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Speaker 1: of plate, you got climate change about the ocean sign

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Speaker 1: chrys of a laccident.

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Speaker 2: Now what it means is like, if you're a place

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Speaker 2: like Tavalu, which is in the next one hundred years

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Speaker 2: worst case scenario, probably ninety percent of the adol sort

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Speaker 2: of underwater, then actually its historic border is respected and

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Speaker 2: as a result, it's ez which has its opportunity for

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Speaker 2: fishing rights. Its economic zone around the islands is actually maintained.

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Speaker 2: It currently is today, not as it would be in

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Speaker 2: the future if the worst case happens.

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Speaker 1: Okay, the slavery question that Kyostarmer was particularly exercised about,

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Speaker 1: did that go anywhere? Will it go anywhere? Do you think?

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Speaker 2: Well? The key thing was to push it out of

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Speaker 2: Chogham frankly, because it's a peculiar UK Caribbean issue that

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Speaker 2: needs to be dealt with by them. In a conversation,

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Speaker 2: I think they plan to do a UK Caribbean dialogue

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Speaker 2: next year. But it was really pushed out of Chogham

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Speaker 2: so that the Brits and the Caribbean can deal with

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Speaker 2: it directly.

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Speaker 1: Ok.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because really you want Chogham to be about democracy,

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Speaker 2: you want it to be about actual development. But for

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Speaker 2: me it was a good opportunity to meet you know,

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Speaker 2: leaders from Africa and the Caribbean who I don't get

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Speaker 2: a chance to see that much, but effectively could build some.

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Speaker 1: Relationships to have a future.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it does. I think it has to

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Speaker 2: be focused back on development and democracy. You know, strengthen

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Speaker 2: against democratic institutions, building the capacity of public services, and

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Speaker 2: developing states getting rid of corruption. Those kinds of things

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Speaker 2: I think are important.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So Shane Jones, he's been in Singapore. He comes

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Speaker 1: back this sort of surprise me that we haven't thought

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Speaker 1: about this or done anything about it before. So his

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Speaker 1: argument is they've got plenty of dough and they want

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Speaker 1: to invest in infrastructure good. They also want food security.

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Speaker 1: I'm assuming we can do something along those lines. Why

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Speaker 1: hasn't that been stitched up signed off?

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Speaker 2: Well, it is actually so promised to Lee and promise

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Speaker 2: to Wong, and I've spoken about that. Where we're moving

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Speaker 2: through what we call in enhart strategic partnership, which is

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Speaker 2: building our relationship to Singapore to the next level. Next

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Speaker 2: year will be our sixtieth anniversary, and that's exactly right.

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Speaker 2: The Singaporeans are really concerned about food security, and I'm

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Speaker 2: really concerned about supply chain certainty. So if you think

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Speaker 2: about oil coming through Singapore coming into New Zealand, I

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Speaker 2: would want protection of that, and they'd want protection and more,

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Speaker 2: more and more security around their food. The other thing

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Speaker 2: is that every time I go off Sure, I spent

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Speaker 2: about two hours meeting with our groups of investors asking

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Speaker 2: for the good, the bad, and the ugly of investing

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Speaker 2: in New Zealand. And my big takeaway is that actually

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Speaker 2: the open to investing in New Zealand, they just don't

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Speaker 2: know what's here to invest in. I'm very open to

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Speaker 2: taking foreign direct investment into the country because we're the

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Speaker 2: lowest in the OECD. We've slipped to thirty eight out

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Speaker 2: of thirty eight and we need that to get knowledge

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Speaker 2: transfer into our companies, but also the capital that we

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Speaker 2: desperately need for public infrastructures.

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Speaker 1: Reputationally, we're trouble. We had an investment guys, we're doing

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Speaker 1: this for thirty years on the prayer, he said. Reputationally

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Speaker 1: where we're not well looked well.

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Speaker 2: I think the reality is I've looked at us in

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Speaker 2: recent years and said it's too slow to get anything

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Speaker 2: done in New Zealand. It's actually you don't welcome capital

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Speaker 2: like other countries. Do you say it's a privilege to

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Speaker 2: invest here versus thank you for coming and spending your

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Speaker 2: money and make the investment and just management manage our

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Speaker 2: risks versus Actually, these days they've got to say it's

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Speaker 2: a privilege to being here, now, let me justify why

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Speaker 2: my investment's going to be good for New Zealand, so

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Speaker 2: that the mindset's are wrong on the investment. And also

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Speaker 2: we haven't been a country that's been using this big

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Speaker 2: sovereign wealth funds pension funds for actually doing public infrastructure,

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Speaker 2: which is what we're doing with the National Infrastructure Agency

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Speaker 2: that we're creating. So all of those messages say, look,

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Speaker 2: I'm open to investing in New Zealand, but I just

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Speaker 2: don't know what's here, And I think, can you turn

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Speaker 2: that round?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: I can, because I think what I have to do

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Speaker 2: is present a deal sheet essentially are the different assets

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Speaker 2: that we are up for investment from overseas, and then

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Speaker 2: make that very explicit to the investors and actually get

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Speaker 2: them down here to see them, to show them what's here.

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Speaker 1: The other thing they said to or told me this

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Speaker 1: morning was once they get here, they look at the

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Speaker 1: CRL and go, cool, big hole in the ground that's

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Speaker 1: three times over budget and years like, how do we

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Speaker 1: fix that? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean that's where the fast track and the

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Speaker 2: consenting stuff is really serious. I mean the consenting stuff

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Speaker 2: has doubled in time, and time is money. You know,

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Speaker 2: and also you know the laws. And I spoke to

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Speaker 2: a guy who wants to build a data center in

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Speaker 2: New Zealand and he said, Chris, I love your country.

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Speaker 2: He says, where I go, they make it easy for

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Speaker 2: me because they want a data center here. It's probably

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Speaker 2: half a billion dollars worth of investment. But he said,

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Speaker 2: I'm dealing with an Auckland Council volcanic cone view issue

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Speaker 2: by laurd. I don't know what that is. And I

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Speaker 2: said to mate, Yeah, that exactly underscores the point, which

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Speaker 2: is if you are a project of regional and or

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Speaker 2: national significance, which is where we started with the fast

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Speaker 2: tract to try and break the system, we try and

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Speaker 2: shrine next year with the full system. As you know,

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Speaker 2: we've got to be able to get through this stuff

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Speaker 2: and get thing.

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Speaker 1: I'm very glad you're raised data centers because once they

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Speaker 1: arrive here and we do want to be a center

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Speaker 1: for data centers, how is it we're running them with power?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's a major challenge. No, as Sydney and

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Speaker 2: I think there's two data center projects there that they're

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Speaker 2: proposing to build in the next five years that will

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Speaker 2: take up one hundred percent of Sydney's electricity today. So

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Speaker 2: that's why you know we've got twenty two fast track

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Speaker 2: resource renewable energy projects in the Fast Track legislation. But that.

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Speaker 1: Current electricity, I mean, we're not building what are we doing?

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Speaker 1: We're building windmills, are we building farms? Are we building

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Speaker 1: all of the above? All of the above? Why don't

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Speaker 1: we go nuclear?

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Speaker 2: Well that's not something that we Well, we've got abundant

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Speaker 2: natural resources. We just haven't even tried to do what.

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Speaker 1: We've Let me, let me give you the argument. So

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Speaker 1: you look at Google and Microsoft and Oracle. What are

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Speaker 1: they doing. They're doing deals three Mile Island, They're building

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Speaker 1: their own nuclear reactors. Why because you cannot rely on rain?

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Speaker 2: Yep, no, I hear you. But I also know that

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Speaker 2: we've got abundant natural resources and we haven't done the

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Speaker 2: job that we should be able to do with the

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Speaker 2: resources that we've already got.

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Speaker 1: So when it takes we can build enough wind mills

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Speaker 1: and enough solar panels, and enough dams. Yeah with gas,

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Speaker 1: with some gas to run any number of data center.

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Speaker 1: I think when we can't turn the lights on in

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Speaker 1: the middle of winter.

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Speaker 2: Well that's but I just say to you That's why

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Speaker 2: we've got to properly go through. I mean, we're in

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Speaker 2: a perverse situation where it took us eight years to

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Speaker 2: consent to win farm, two years to build it. That

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Speaker 2: should be a one year consenting. We should get the

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Speaker 2: benefit within three years and then we can move on.

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Speaker 2: You know, that's one hundred and thirty thousand houses, you know,

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Speaker 2: the particular farm I was thinking about one hundred and

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Speaker 2: thirty thousand houses. Actually all the energy needs met through

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Speaker 2: off you know, through.

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Speaker 1: Your argument and really simple terms. We can do it renewably. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're about nuclear. Nuclear is not on the table.

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Speaker 2: We're never going to an ocular. But what we can

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Speaker 2: do is we do a hell of a better job

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Speaker 2: than what we've been doing. Because again, if you're sitting

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Speaker 2: in Singapore, you've got one hundred and ninety five countries

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Speaker 2: to invest that sovereign wealth superannuation money in. If you're

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Speaker 2: sitting in Korea or Japan with the other places, you know,

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Speaker 2: I've spoken them to as well. They've got so much money.

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Speaker 2: You know, I sat down in a meeting with five

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Speaker 2: Japanese bankers. You know, they immediately had like probably three

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Speaker 2: hundred and fifty billion dollars to invest just and a

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Speaker 2: lot of it they would love to send to this

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Speaker 2: part of the world. They just don't know what's here.

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Speaker 2: I met with the Katari Prime Minister for four hours

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Speaker 2: and just said he's got a Katari investment fund. We

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Speaker 2: would love their money. He said, it came through here.

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Speaker 2: You know, seven years ago, Sauce I couldn't find anything

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Speaker 2: to invest in. I said, we'll come back. You know,

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Speaker 2: let me let me get you the deal sheet of

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Speaker 2: what I think. You know, you might want to make investments,

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Speaker 2: make investments.

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Speaker 1: What are you going to do with QI Bank?

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Speaker 2: Look, I mean what we've said is, look, the banking

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Speaker 2: set does not competitive. The competition is not good because

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Speaker 2: consumers are paying for it with higher prices. We've now

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Speaker 2: got this inquiry going on through the Finance and Expendit

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Speaker 2: You Committee that will roll through, but we need kwe

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Speaker 2: Bank to actually be fired up as the maverick as

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Speaker 2: it's been talked about.

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Speaker 1: You're you going to float it?

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Speaker 2: Well, we're going to get a bunch of investment options

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Speaker 2: that Nicholas asked the Treasury to give her discussion.

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Speaker 1: He's given you the options. One of the options is floating.

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Speaker 2: Well, I haven't seen the advice yet to float it. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 2: one of the options could be to put some into

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Speaker 2: the New Zealand Stock Exchange, other ways in which she

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Speaker 2: could get super funds or other other funds to invest

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Speaker 2: in it as.

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Speaker 1: Well, your favor.

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Speaker 2: I don't have a view until I see that advice. Mike,

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Speaker 2: I know that's not the answer you want.

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Speaker 1: Tell me no premature until here's my main point. My

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Speaker 1: point is keep we Bank tomorrow, so you sell it off.

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Speaker 1: Tell me materially how it changes the banking landscape of

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Speaker 1: this country.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think a more capital growth into care We

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Speaker 2: Bank so that it actually can compete wrongers. It makes

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Speaker 2: them bigger, but also makes them be able to compete

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Speaker 2: very strongly for that business. I think there's other things

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Speaker 2: that we're going to need to do as well with

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Speaker 2: the banking. But let's get through some of this inquiry.

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Speaker 1: Because I'm following this inquiry with a great deal of interest.

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Speaker 1: I listened to Antonio last week. She's fantastic, so she

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Speaker 1: who was a perfectly coach and argument I thought, I mean, yes,

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Speaker 1: they make a lot of money, but there are a

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Speaker 1: big bank so to the other four major banks. So

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Speaker 1: to keep if Keywi Bank was floated tomorrow, it would

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Speaker 1: become a bigger bank. There'd be five big banks. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: how does that fix anything? No?

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Speaker 2: I just I think you know the reality is we've

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Speaker 2: got four We've got four cozy banks and a very

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Speaker 2: cozy relationship and no.

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Speaker 1: One has shaken stop.

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Speaker 2: Here's an example, open open banking for example, that's something that's.

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Speaker 1: You have you read the documentation in Australia on open Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: but it looks no different now.

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Speaker 2: But the point is it's been left with the banks

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Speaker 2: to manage amongst themselves that open banking piece, rather than

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Speaker 2: actually that regulation coming from a different place. And I

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Speaker 2: think you know people, you know they don't move banks easily,

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Speaker 2: but actually if you made it much easier to do so,

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Speaker 2: you would. But when you leave it to the bank

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Speaker 2: to say it does not their interest to.

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Speaker 1: Change, you've not convinced me that we've got some sort

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Speaker 1: of robber barons scenario in this country where everyone's getting

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Speaker 1: ripped off. I mean, and if you could, that's fantastic,

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Speaker 1: because I don't care. I just don't see what floating

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Speaker 1: selling doing anything to Kiwi Bank profoundly changes the marketplace.

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Speaker 2: I think in a market like New Zealand, where you

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Speaker 2: end up defaulting to one or two players. Two players

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Speaker 2: or in this case four that actually anything that promotes.

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Speaker 2: There's actually fifteen retail there's actually eighteen banks and the

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Speaker 2: four majors. Yeah yeah, yeah, but they but they're not.

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Speaker 2: You know, we need to make sure they're capitalized in

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Speaker 2: a way that they can actually compete very strongly. And

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Speaker 2: I do think capital which capitalize they get out into

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Speaker 2: the rural sector. Do you think suddenly materially the escape

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Speaker 2: of the rural I think I think that's one of

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Speaker 2: the big observations. If you take rural banking for example.

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Speaker 2: You know, many of our farmers have been put under

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Speaker 2: huge amounts of pressure by their banks. They end up

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Speaker 2: having to run a much higher interest rates than we

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Speaker 2: do in the cities. The resonsequence because the risk, I

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Speaker 2: get it, But actually I think many of them would

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Speaker 2: want to change to someone who had actually bank them.

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Speaker 1: Give me a timeline on when this is happening.

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Speaker 2: Well, again, what we're getting is advice coming back from

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Speaker 2: Treasury about the options around Kiewi Bank and capital. I

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Speaker 2: think we'll have a conversation in cabinet as planned for

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Speaker 2: in the month of December.

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Speaker 1: Okay, good to see Prime Minister Christopher Luxan for more

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Speaker 1: from the mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to news talks

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Speaker 1: they'd be from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast

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Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio