WEBVTT - On The Front Foot Episode 264: Recapping the Black Caps' test series win 0:00:09.093 --> 0:00:11.973 You're listening to a podcast from News Talk sad B. 0:00:12.373 --> 0:00:19.453 Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on Iheartradiot. 0:00:19.533 --> 0:00:24.173 Take it on the Patrick. It is out, the Test 0:00:24.253 --> 0:00:28.613 is over. Goodn't dismay from us. 0:00:28.573 --> 0:00:31.133 A beauty, it is out and here he goes. 0:00:31.213 --> 0:00:33.013 This delivery has in many years of. 0:00:33.053 --> 0:00:33.773 The Bold. 0:00:35.893 --> 0:00:39.293 On the Front Foot where Brian Waddell and Jeremy Cody, 0:00:39.613 --> 0:00:44.373 powered by News Talks head b at iHeartRadio. 0:00:45.813 --> 0:00:47.933 On the Front Foot. In what a week we can 0:00:47.973 --> 0:00:52.133 celebrate the emphatic Treadbridge's Test and the remarkable series when 0:00:52.213 --> 0:00:55.813 from One Mill Down at Lords, the bizarre events in 0:00:55.853 --> 0:01:00.053 the England Temp, the departure of Stokes is McCollum's job safe. 0:01:00.733 --> 0:01:02.973 We'll be talking to former England past ball of Stephen 0:01:03.053 --> 0:01:06.653 Finn about the Test and the series. Also commentator Simon 0:01:06.733 --> 0:01:10.653 Mann from the BBC and a few thoughts from Peter Holland, 0:01:10.733 --> 0:01:14.613 along with Jeremy Coney as ever basking in the euphoria 0:01:14.693 --> 0:01:17.293 of Test cricket success and Jerry, I know it was 0:01:17.293 --> 0:01:20.053 a while ago, but you've experienced the same sort of 0:01:20.053 --> 0:01:24.013 thing as a New Zealand player and I guess it's 0:01:24.013 --> 0:01:27.493 a special moment when you win a series, particularly against England, 0:01:27.533 --> 0:01:31.213 because England and Australia were the real challenges we always faced, 0:01:31.213 --> 0:01:31.733 weren't they? 0:01:32.013 --> 0:01:35.973 They were, and I think we always looked wads when 0:01:36.053 --> 0:01:41.333 I was playing back to England to look at how 0:01:41.373 --> 0:01:45.493 we played, how we should play test cricket. If you 0:01:45.533 --> 0:01:47.933 look at the players that went that way, where did 0:01:47.933 --> 0:01:50.773 they go? They didn't go to Australia to day. They 0:01:50.813 --> 0:01:55.973 headed to England and that's where I think we committed 0:01:56.453 --> 0:01:59.973 and felt that we would learn the game well. So 0:02:01.213 --> 0:02:06.853 they kind of took a feeling of being a parent, 0:02:07.293 --> 0:02:12.093 if you like. And it's nice too. It's nice to 0:02:12.133 --> 0:02:15.053 sort of beat the old people sometime, if I can 0:02:15.093 --> 0:02:18.453 put it that way, there's a certain pleasure. I remember 0:02:18.533 --> 0:02:21.573 as asking me just after the game, well what do 0:02:21.653 --> 0:02:24.453 you think about this, Jeremy and the team beat? I said, 0:02:24.613 --> 0:02:27.613 Can I just say? First of all, as a player, 0:02:27.653 --> 0:02:31.933 you want to make your new you know your country's team, 0:02:32.733 --> 0:02:35.133 and then you want to win a Test match with 0:02:35.333 --> 0:02:38.813 your country and you're in the team, and then you 0:02:38.893 --> 0:02:41.813 want to win a series. And there's only one thing 0:02:41.853 --> 0:02:46.253 after there is you want to beat England. Yeah, and 0:02:46.293 --> 0:02:50.973 we love beating you. And that was the end of 0:02:51.013 --> 0:02:51.573 the interview. 0:02:52.253 --> 0:02:57.173 Yeah, we go, and I could imagine you enjoying it 0:02:57.213 --> 0:02:59.813 because we've had a few tough times in the BBC 0:02:59.893 --> 0:03:01.733 box over the period of time, and we only have 0:03:01.773 --> 0:03:04.213 to reach twenty nineteen and we're not going to go 0:03:04.253 --> 0:03:07.813 any further than that before we review the test. I 0:03:07.893 --> 0:03:11.733 just wonder what happened between you and me and our 0:03:11.773 --> 0:03:17.333 guests last week. Daniel Norcross, he sort of during the 0:03:17.333 --> 0:03:21.813 commentary he took well the person out of you basically. 0:03:23.573 --> 0:03:26.333 I don't know. I don't know if you heard. 0:03:26.213 --> 0:03:27.853 Him, No, I didn't. 0:03:28.573 --> 0:03:31.693 He was very good, was he What was he trying 0:03:31.693 --> 0:03:31.973 to do? 0:03:32.213 --> 0:03:32.933 What was he telling? 0:03:33.413 --> 0:03:36.093 He was just trying. He was just imitating you speaking 0:03:37.173 --> 0:03:42.893 all right, yeah, mimicking you and and the pauses and 0:03:42.893 --> 0:03:46.053 and and the way you use words, and it was 0:03:46.133 --> 0:03:49.173 very clever. I must admit I had a bit of 0:03:49.213 --> 0:03:51.413 a laugh and I thought, well, I'll just bring it 0:03:51.493 --> 0:03:55.053 up just to check and see whether we're upset a 0:03:55.133 --> 0:03:57.013 himore or whether he was just having fun. He seems 0:03:57.053 --> 0:03:57.693 like a fun man. 0:03:58.533 --> 0:04:01.693 I think probably what happened once there was a one 0:04:01.733 --> 0:04:05.373 of the lunch times, you know how Jonathan Agne on 0:04:05.413 --> 0:04:09.333 a Saturday or something. I interviews somebody for about an hour. Yeah, 0:04:09.613 --> 0:04:13.413 and this particular guest was someone who was exactly that, 0:04:13.493 --> 0:04:16.733 a mimic and he's also doing cats and he's also 0:04:16.853 --> 0:04:21.333 doing all sorts of other shows, clever man, and he 0:04:21.453 --> 0:04:25.133 had to he had to talk about they were doing 0:04:25.173 --> 0:04:29.453 something on splitting Image apparently at this chap and he 0:04:29.653 --> 0:04:34.493 was had to mimic Just Cinder, a dern of all people, 0:04:34.973 --> 0:04:41.933 and he chose me as the voice to be not Regicinda, 0:04:41.973 --> 0:04:46.333 but I think a sheep, and so there he was. 0:04:46.653 --> 0:04:49.093 So he asked me to go in at the same time, 0:04:49.133 --> 0:04:51.893 and we were there, the three of us, and the guy. 0:04:51.973 --> 0:04:54.053 Did you know he had a crack at being me. 0:04:55.173 --> 0:04:57.333 I listened to it and I thought, oh, maybe my 0:04:57.413 --> 0:05:04.813 brother so but nevertheless, I know I've heard that Daniel 0:05:04.893 --> 0:05:07.653 is rather good and slightly better at it. 0:05:08.573 --> 0:05:10.453 Yes, well, there's there's a lot. Of course. There was 0:05:10.453 --> 0:05:13.013 a guy called Peter Brackley. I think he was also 0:05:13.133 --> 0:05:15.773 very good at doing the mooking. But you know, it 0:05:15.853 --> 0:05:17.893 just adds to the fun of what you're at. And 0:05:18.013 --> 0:05:21.133 I'm glad you took it nictually, Jerry, and I'm sure 0:05:21.173 --> 0:05:23.053 you would have made a very good Just Cinder. 0:05:24.933 --> 0:05:25.493 Or a sheet. 0:05:27.973 --> 0:05:30.773 Yeah right, we'll review the Test match in a moment 0:05:30.813 --> 0:05:32.333 and as I say, later on we'll be talking to 0:05:32.333 --> 0:05:36.573 Simon Mann and also Stephen Finn. But just before we do, Jerry, 0:05:37.373 --> 0:05:41.013 let's hear from Rob Walter, who in a very quiet, 0:05:41.133 --> 0:05:46.053 matter of fact way reacts to the team performance and 0:05:46.613 --> 0:05:51.253 the success in the key moments through the Test series. 0:05:51.813 --> 0:05:52.053 Yeah. 0:05:52.653 --> 0:05:55.293 I think every win or loss will go down to, 0:05:55.733 --> 0:05:58.053 you know, winning or losing key moments in the game. 0:05:58.813 --> 0:06:01.693 And obviously in Test cricket they look a little bit 0:06:01.693 --> 0:06:05.573 different to the shorter format of the game and sometimes 0:06:05.613 --> 0:06:09.133 and it doesn't equate to run. Look, you know, Glenn 0:06:09.133 --> 0:06:13.013 Phillip's dealing with Josh ra Arch and Atova spell, you 0:06:13.053 --> 0:06:15.573 know where he just refused to take the ball on, 0:06:16.813 --> 0:06:21.533 spend most of his time on his back and you know, 0:06:21.653 --> 0:06:24.813 just just making the decision and understanding that that was 0:06:24.853 --> 0:06:28.373 what was required for him in that moment in order 0:06:28.413 --> 0:06:31.093 for the team to find its way in the game 0:06:31.133 --> 0:06:33.853 and find its way into a position of strength. I 0:06:33.853 --> 0:06:36.373 think there were a lot of those that, you know, 0:06:36.533 --> 0:06:39.933 that went on throughout the Test series and it's obvious 0:06:39.973 --> 0:06:41.853 because we wouldn't have won the series if we didn't 0:06:41.893 --> 0:06:45.133 win those little moments. But but the little moments are 0:06:45.133 --> 0:06:48.253 not always runs and wickets. The little moments are often 0:06:48.573 --> 0:06:52.453 mindset and an illustration of the team's culture and the 0:06:52.573 --> 0:06:56.813 teams together us around what they're trying to achieve. So 0:06:56.933 --> 0:07:00.253 for me, you know, Glenn's that moment in time was 0:07:00.333 --> 0:07:04.773 one obviously Darryl and Rutchan's partnership, but then Daryl batting 0:07:04.773 --> 0:07:09.293 the way that he batted, understanding what was required from him, 0:07:09.773 --> 0:07:12.973 shifting the gears, you know, towards the end with the tail. 0:07:13.973 --> 0:07:16.133 We had even a guy like Carl. 0:07:16.013 --> 0:07:18.413 Jamerson, you know, get hit on the head three times 0:07:18.493 --> 0:07:22.053 and still keep going, you know, to score you know 0:07:22.093 --> 0:07:25.373 the runs that he scored, you know, so you have 0:07:25.453 --> 0:07:28.173 little things like that. You know, Ben Sears gets hit 0:07:28.213 --> 0:07:30.453 on his bowling hand twice, he goes back into bat 0:07:31.093 --> 0:07:33.453 with Darryl Darrell gets his hundred, we get to score 0:07:34.093 --> 0:07:36.053 three to seventy odd but he still then goes back 0:07:36.093 --> 0:07:38.933 and balls and gets the wicked have Ben Duckett, you know, 0:07:38.973 --> 0:07:41.213 willow Row guests that I bowled with a split finger. 0:07:41.933 --> 0:07:43.493 I didn't know how he was going to hold the 0:07:43.533 --> 0:07:44.053 cricket ball. 0:07:44.093 --> 0:07:47.293 But he runs any balls three overs you know, it 0:07:47.293 --> 0:07:50.813 didn't necessarily are quite equate to any wickets, but what 0:07:50.853 --> 0:07:54.613 it did do is it showed the rest of the 0:07:54.653 --> 0:07:57.133 team the hunger you know, to do something, you know, 0:07:57.253 --> 0:07:59.493 to go beyond when when the team needs you to 0:07:59.573 --> 0:08:02.373 do that. So, I mean, I could rattle off moments. 0:08:02.373 --> 0:08:05.093 Tom Blundell standing up to stump is the moment, you 0:08:05.133 --> 0:08:09.773 know again, And so yeah, little things like that that 0:08:09.933 --> 0:08:14.173 happened in the three Test match series is there's probably 0:08:14.213 --> 0:08:17.453 twenty of them, but they're all great to reflect on 0:08:17.573 --> 0:08:21.213 and to share as a team. 0:08:21.253 --> 0:08:24.733 And just finally, what sort of emphasis as a team 0:08:24.813 --> 0:08:28.413 and as a coach did you put on what appeared 0:08:28.453 --> 0:08:31.053 to this part of the world anyway some disarray within 0:08:31.653 --> 0:08:36.053 the English set up after the Lord's Test when they 0:08:36.093 --> 0:08:38.813 had their issues there and then it seemed to carry 0:08:38.853 --> 0:08:41.173 on right the way through. Was that part of your 0:08:41.653 --> 0:08:44.053 mindset as a coach or do you just get on 0:08:44.093 --> 0:08:44.733 with your own job? 0:08:45.413 --> 0:08:49.853 I know, I mean again, we had such a simple plan. 0:08:51.373 --> 0:08:53.173 And that was never going to change. 0:08:53.173 --> 0:08:55.493 In fact, after the first Test and after losing in 0:08:55.493 --> 0:08:59.053 the first Test, it probably reaffirmed that you know, if 0:08:59.093 --> 0:09:00.733 we did it well, it would put us in a 0:09:00.733 --> 0:09:04.293 good position and then obviously their own issues in their 0:09:04.333 --> 0:09:09.893 camps started to develop, but nothing changed in terms of 0:09:09.933 --> 0:09:12.413 the way we were trying to play. Ultimately, we just 0:09:12.453 --> 0:09:15.133 acknowledged that they were going to have to deal with, 0:09:16.053 --> 0:09:18.173 you know, with certain issues where it was going to 0:09:18.173 --> 0:09:19.333 make them weak or stronger. 0:09:19.533 --> 0:09:21.053 You know, that remains to be seen. 0:09:21.293 --> 0:09:24.733 Often guys come into teams them as adversity and stand 0:09:24.813 --> 0:09:25.493 up and do well. 0:09:25.573 --> 0:09:27.013 You know, so I don't think you can. 0:09:27.373 --> 0:09:30.613 I've played against many different teams who have thrived under 0:09:30.773 --> 0:09:34.653 you know, turmoil around them, So I didn't necessarily think 0:09:34.693 --> 0:09:39.693 that this would have any bearing on on on them 0:09:39.853 --> 0:09:42.213 and the way they play the game. And if it did, 0:09:42.293 --> 0:09:45.253 the only way we could ever elicit sort of any 0:09:45.333 --> 0:09:47.573 advantage out of that was to be even better with 0:09:47.613 --> 0:09:50.093 our skill execution and not let them into the game. 0:09:50.133 --> 0:09:51.973 And I think that was the important thing. It's just 0:09:52.013 --> 0:09:55.933 focusing purely on on on that and and being better 0:09:56.093 --> 0:09:58.973 every single time as a team. And you know, then 0:09:59.013 --> 0:10:01.173 if they're if there are cracks in the opposition, then 0:10:01.253 --> 0:10:02.613 that'll expose them even more. 0:10:02.653 --> 0:10:02.813 You know. 0:10:02.893 --> 0:10:04.253 The last thing you want to do is let them 0:10:04.253 --> 0:10:07.693 into the game. And you know, we weren't. We weren't 0:10:07.853 --> 0:10:11.413 very well, very crit clinical at certain times, but we've 0:10:11.453 --> 0:10:13.893 got better and better throughout this series, which is great 0:10:13.893 --> 0:10:14.413 to see. 0:10:14.693 --> 0:10:18.853 Fairy organized man quite clearly rob Botron and he seems 0:10:18.893 --> 0:10:22.133 to be the kind of architecture want. He doesn't want 0:10:22.173 --> 0:10:26.213 to be in the front line of anything. He analyzes 0:10:26.333 --> 0:10:32.093 things very clearly, and I think he makes fair points 0:10:32.213 --> 0:10:34.093 in that little bit that we played. 0:10:34.613 --> 0:10:37.253 Very much so Brian in fact, if you compare, I mean, 0:10:37.293 --> 0:10:43.053 he's quiet, he likes being in the background. He's out 0:10:43.053 --> 0:10:46.653 there first every day. I was at the ground quite 0:10:46.693 --> 0:10:49.253 early and he was already out there looking at the 0:10:49.293 --> 0:10:52.973 practice pictures and getting the bat ready and getting all 0:10:53.053 --> 0:10:58.453 everything that he needed for his training and giving the throwdowns, 0:10:59.213 --> 0:11:02.973 talking to the batsman. You know, he just goes about 0:11:02.973 --> 0:11:06.853 his business in a gentle kind of way, but at 0:11:06.893 --> 0:11:10.533 the same time make sure every box has tipped. Very 0:11:10.573 --> 0:11:17.213 different from McCullum, isn't it. And I just highlight that 0:11:17.373 --> 0:11:21.773 because those are That's the way the two teams behaved 0:11:21.813 --> 0:11:26.173 as well. You know, New Zealand seemed much in terms 0:11:26.213 --> 0:11:31.493 of the two sides, much more calmly determined, confronting a 0:11:31.533 --> 0:11:34.013 lot of changes that they had to in this last 0:11:34.053 --> 0:11:36.933 Test match. All the families there. I stayed at the 0:11:36.973 --> 0:11:41.053 same hotel all their families there. You know, probably about 0:11:41.373 --> 0:11:45.253 fifteen to twenty young children between sort of one and 0:11:45.293 --> 0:11:48.653 four or five. A lot of noise, a lot of noise. 0:11:49.973 --> 0:11:53.533 Tom Nathan removing a child who's being a boisterous and 0:11:53.533 --> 0:11:55.973 has to walk them in the walker away for a 0:11:56.053 --> 0:12:01.373 while before he can bring them back. So it's just 0:12:01.493 --> 0:12:05.613 a nice touch, I think, and it says a lot 0:12:05.653 --> 0:12:09.733 about the way that they could cope with the changes, 0:12:10.213 --> 0:12:11.973 and there were a lot of them, weren't there with 0:12:12.053 --> 0:12:18.533 the three Phillips and Jamison and Henry missing initially and 0:12:18.573 --> 0:12:21.253 then of course Technic going as well with the concussion, 0:12:22.693 --> 0:12:26.893 so and a lot to the bowling. But but yeah, 0:12:27.413 --> 0:12:30.813 you know, they had to bounce back from a loss 0:12:31.333 --> 0:12:34.493 and they won the next match pretty comfortably by two 0:12:34.533 --> 0:12:39.093 hundred plus runs. England. I just looked they were just 0:12:39.133 --> 0:12:46.213 in turmoil, really, a lot of rumor surrounding them, particularly 0:12:46.253 --> 0:12:50.573 the guys in charge, a lot of innuendo, and they 0:12:50.693 --> 0:12:54.613 just didn't seem as settled kind of side. And they 0:12:54.693 --> 0:12:58.453 and the way they tried to win things was with 0:12:58.773 --> 0:13:03.133 either well the day where they came out and just 0:13:03.293 --> 0:13:07.093 literally could not win the Test after that hour and 0:13:07.133 --> 0:13:09.733 a bit, they just couldn't in the game day four 0:13:10.013 --> 0:13:17.333 and yeah, so very two very different sides under pressures, 0:13:17.373 --> 0:13:20.173 particularly England with a voracious media. 0:13:20.333 --> 0:13:23.933 Just thinking on that, I don't take much notice of 0:13:24.053 --> 0:13:26.973 necessary normally, but he made one pertinent comment to my 0:13:27.093 --> 0:13:30.013 mind that it was New Zealand showing England how to 0:13:30.053 --> 0:13:32.373 do it. Yet the England camp has got a lot 0:13:32.413 --> 0:13:35.453 of New Zealanders in terms of leadership, with Southy McCollum 0:13:35.773 --> 0:13:39.133 and Jet and Patel in there, and that to me 0:13:39.293 --> 0:13:40.813 was a telling point. 0:13:41.613 --> 0:13:44.733 Well, I don't know why those three New Zealanders aren't 0:13:45.813 --> 0:13:49.493 able to keep the rest of the side calm. There's 0:13:49.533 --> 0:13:51.773 certainly a lot more media there, Brian, There's no doubt 0:13:51.813 --> 0:13:54.653 about that, and there's a lot of things written and 0:13:54.693 --> 0:13:58.613 so that place is pressure on you. But you need 0:13:58.653 --> 0:14:02.333 to somehow retain a way of thinking about the game. 0:14:04.213 --> 0:14:07.693 And I mean I think perhaps that the toss was 0:14:07.773 --> 0:14:12.453 quite employ ston't You could see little cracks on the 0:14:12.493 --> 0:14:16.373 first day. It was a dry pitch and the ground 0:14:16.413 --> 0:14:19.613 staff were concerned that it was a little dry, and 0:14:19.733 --> 0:14:24.173 of course then the two hot days occurred beyond that time. 0:14:25.813 --> 0:14:28.253 It's not the only thing though, of course you've got 0:14:28.293 --> 0:14:32.493 to still take advantage of it, don't you. And Conway, 0:14:33.973 --> 0:14:38.813 the more aggressive and lath them, the more compact constructed, 0:14:38.853 --> 0:14:40.973 you know. The first key element in the game, and 0:14:41.013 --> 0:14:44.333 that was three hundred and seventeen runs in a partnership, 0:14:46.013 --> 0:14:49.133 and it was it was hot work for the English side. 0:14:49.973 --> 0:14:53.733 It was almost about perfect, wasn't it that first day? 0:14:55.413 --> 0:14:58.253 And yet you know we lost a couple late in 0:14:58.293 --> 0:15:02.053 the day. Phase two kind of belonged to England. I 0:15:02.093 --> 0:15:06.213 felt four thirty eight New Zealand ten for one hundred 0:15:06.213 --> 0:15:09.133 and twenty odd and then being two hundred and twenty 0:15:09.213 --> 0:15:11.333 three for three. At the end of that day, Bethel 0:15:11.373 --> 0:15:15.413 and Route had established themselves, you know, it evened up 0:15:16.253 --> 0:15:17.973 and of course New Zealand. That was the day New 0:15:18.053 --> 0:15:21.013 Zealand lost. Tichner and folks came in and made a 0:15:21.053 --> 0:15:24.693 bit of an impression, didn't he. Actually, in terms of 0:15:24.733 --> 0:15:30.013 wickets batted okay. But Phase three was New Zealand's again, 0:15:30.093 --> 0:15:33.333 like Lazarus, they would turn from the dead. Really, I 0:15:33.413 --> 0:15:36.453 was wondering how on earth if the pitch stayed the same, 0:15:37.013 --> 0:15:40.253 would New Zealand get back into it. But Rute and 0:15:40.293 --> 0:15:44.533 Betel rut and Bethel went early and they ended up 0:15:44.693 --> 0:15:49.333 eighty four precious runs behind, and Folks left. His mark 0:15:49.493 --> 0:15:52.093 I think was what was it three wickets something like that, 0:15:52.213 --> 0:15:56.733 I think, and making the ball suddenly go down and up. 0:15:56.773 --> 0:15:59.533 And this was the day, I think where it became 0:15:59.693 --> 0:16:02.253 very clear that batting was not going to be easy 0:16:02.293 --> 0:16:06.613 for the rest of the match. Ravendra in the second innings, 0:16:06.653 --> 0:16:09.733 I mean, we lost Conway later and Nichols quickly didn't 0:16:09.773 --> 0:16:15.573 we yep, and then Revendra set about on an innings 0:16:15.813 --> 0:16:20.853 to me which kind of showed that he has the judgment, 0:16:21.613 --> 0:16:23.933 that he has the shots that we know he can 0:16:24.293 --> 0:16:27.333 and if he can put the two together. He kind 0:16:27.373 --> 0:16:31.573 of worked to eradicate the first innings blunder that he 0:16:31.693 --> 0:16:36.653 had made. And for about his first thirty balls he 0:16:36.773 --> 0:16:40.373 must have been twenty two twenty three not out. He 0:16:40.453 --> 0:16:44.133 made a significant difference to the start of that New 0:16:44.173 --> 0:16:49.013 Zealand secondaries after losing those three early wickets, and he 0:16:49.133 --> 0:16:52.453 took the sting out of the new ball that was 0:16:52.533 --> 0:16:56.213 being bold. So that was it was a very important 0:16:56.893 --> 0:17:01.533 little cameo to get his innings started. At the time, 0:17:01.973 --> 0:17:06.493 Mitchell was really supportive, but no more than that it 0:17:06.613 --> 0:17:10.693 was Revendra who was driving the way the game was changing. 0:17:11.493 --> 0:17:16.573 And even though the conditions themselves were becoming variable, a 0:17:16.613 --> 0:17:19.933 bit up and a bit down, there were more cracks 0:17:20.093 --> 0:17:24.213 you could see day in Day three, player traffic was 0:17:24.293 --> 0:17:27.573 becoming obvious. Running down the pitch, you could get targets, 0:17:28.093 --> 0:17:31.653 you know, the whole pitch started to look spent and tired. 0:17:32.253 --> 0:17:34.013 And then we got to day four when all the 0:17:34.053 --> 0:17:37.733 things happened, was Revender and Mitchell going almost to lunch, 0:17:39.373 --> 0:17:41.813 Revender getting out to one that just kept a smidge 0:17:41.853 --> 0:17:44.853 and low, and then Mitchell for the rest of the 0:17:44.933 --> 0:17:50.573 day accepted the responsibility. It was what you might not 0:17:50.693 --> 0:17:55.133 call it a pretty innings, but man grim, determined, gutsy, 0:17:55.853 --> 0:17:59.333 showed his will, showed his character and his bravery. Really, 0:17:59.613 --> 0:18:01.253 I don't know how many times he was hit on 0:18:01.293 --> 0:18:05.333 the hand, on the arms, on the helmet, helmets changed, 0:18:05.893 --> 0:18:09.293 you know that this was an innings of the Really, 0:18:09.613 --> 0:18:13.493 I mean, he was just terrific. I thought, I don't 0:18:13.493 --> 0:18:16.093 know what you thought, but one hundred and seventy balls 0:18:16.093 --> 0:18:21.093 for his first fifty, full of concentration and cleverness on 0:18:21.173 --> 0:18:26.213 defense because the ball coming back in LBW when it 0:18:26.253 --> 0:18:29.053 was keeping low was the obvious way of getting out. 0:18:29.413 --> 0:18:32.973 He looked after his inside edge and he made sure 0:18:33.533 --> 0:18:36.373 that it didn't hit his pad, getting it right out 0:18:36.413 --> 0:18:42.013 in front. That was very clever defense. And so that 0:18:42.573 --> 0:18:46.333 was an absolutely critical part of the game. The crowd 0:18:47.013 --> 0:18:52.333 was shouting Mitchell boring, and he had give them a 0:18:52.333 --> 0:18:55.813 little wave and then he'd go on and just carry 0:18:55.853 --> 0:18:57.293 on with his defiance. 0:18:57.813 --> 0:19:00.973 Yeah, but that's the proof that Test match cricket is 0:19:01.013 --> 0:19:04.493 not all about reverse sweeps and T twenty cricket. It's 0:19:04.493 --> 0:19:08.053 about putting your body on the line and taking a 0:19:08.133 --> 0:19:11.293 hit for the team. And he played like an all Black, 0:19:11.333 --> 0:19:13.853 didn't he in a tight situation. 0:19:14.213 --> 0:19:21.213 That that was a very very special Mitchell hundred and strange, 0:19:21.333 --> 0:19:25.373 you know. Strangely enough, that first fifty actually meant a 0:19:25.413 --> 0:19:28.533 lot more to me than the second part, which was 0:19:28.773 --> 0:19:33.533 seventy balls for fifty. So it was the fact that 0:19:33.573 --> 0:19:36.133 he went through all that work that gives you an 0:19:36.133 --> 0:19:39.813 opportunity to play more freely later on, you know. And 0:19:39.853 --> 0:19:42.853 he was rebuffing the Atkinsons and the Stokes and the 0:19:42.973 --> 0:19:47.653 Archers and the tongues, you know, and you know they 0:19:47.693 --> 0:19:51.773 were hurling themselves at him, and yet he just worked 0:19:51.813 --> 0:19:54.733 at it, you know. So that was a key partnership. 0:19:55.333 --> 0:19:59.333 And then Blundell and Santana wentz and then Smith and folks, 0:19:59.573 --> 0:20:02.413 Folks getting out the very next ball. After of course 0:20:03.213 --> 0:20:07.333 the crowd heard about Stokes retiring, but then we got 0:20:07.453 --> 0:20:13.293 sixty five sixty five more critical runs after that moment, 0:20:14.173 --> 0:20:17.693 and that again showed to me a lot about I mean, 0:20:17.813 --> 0:20:20.373 Sears played. I saw him in the lifter, came down 0:20:20.413 --> 0:20:24.213 the lift with him today. Well played, man, he said, 0:20:24.213 --> 0:20:26.333 thank you so much. It was a great test to 0:20:26.373 --> 0:20:30.573 be part of. And who got nineteen or fourteen hit 0:20:30.653 --> 0:20:34.333 on the fingers had to retire hurt Also out came 0:20:34.333 --> 0:20:37.973 o'rourt got out. Who came back and it's only been 0:20:37.973 --> 0:20:40.493 off the field for about two minutes. Sears came back. 0:20:40.733 --> 0:20:42.453 They could not pin us down. 0:20:43.133 --> 0:20:43.413 Yep. 0:20:44.613 --> 0:20:48.733 Yeah, And I mean it was a lot of individual performances, 0:20:48.773 --> 0:20:53.933 but no one individually stamped their total authority on the performance. 0:20:53.933 --> 0:20:56.373 It was a real team effort, wasn't it. And I 0:20:56.413 --> 0:20:59.533 think that that was what showed through more than anything 0:20:59.533 --> 0:21:02.293 else when you put all those individual pieces together. And 0:21:02.293 --> 0:21:04.613 that's why I spoke to Rob Walter about winning the 0:21:04.973 --> 0:21:08.973 key moments. That was the difference between the two, wasn't it? 0:21:09.653 --> 0:21:13.493 And he was absolutely right, absolutely right, So three seventy 0:21:13.533 --> 0:21:17.453 three and then there was mayhem, wasn't there. Then there 0:21:17.493 --> 0:21:21.013 was a farcical period of and you could hear you 0:21:21.013 --> 0:21:24.333 could hear the New Zealanders. I don't know whether you 0:21:24.413 --> 0:21:28.613 could if you turned up the stump mic you could 0:21:28.653 --> 0:21:31.653 hear them say whoa, they'd be laughing when Brooke got 0:21:31.693 --> 0:21:35.093 out nine balls for you know, twenty one off nine 0:21:35.133 --> 0:21:40.493 balls and quite yeah, they will laugh at what's going on? 0:21:40.573 --> 0:21:44.213 What are they doing? It was great and it was great. 0:21:44.773 --> 0:21:47.573 They've taken real stick over there in the UK, haven't they. 0:21:49.053 --> 0:21:53.893 Oh they have totally totally. It was just it was 0:21:54.133 --> 0:21:57.053 It would have been okay if they were chasing one 0:21:57.173 --> 0:22:01.613 hundred and seventy, not three hundred and seventy. They're used 0:22:01.653 --> 0:22:04.573 to doing that, so that's very much the Melbourne target. 0:22:05.213 --> 0:22:07.653 One hundred and seventy. That sort of thing, and you 0:22:07.733 --> 0:22:10.653 might get a with a very quick start where you 0:22:10.733 --> 0:22:13.973 lose wickets and you're prepared to do so. They lost 0:22:14.013 --> 0:22:17.653 two thirds of their top order and amidst all the shots, 0:22:17.733 --> 0:22:20.813 Bessel got out playing no shots, which is a bit ironic, 0:22:22.133 --> 0:22:26.613 and I you know they just I couldn't understand it 0:22:27.013 --> 0:22:32.213 what I was seeing either, so especially after they'd seen Ravendra, 0:22:32.533 --> 0:22:36.613 especially after they'd seen Mitchell. But they didn't back themselves 0:22:36.693 --> 0:22:38.733 to be able to bat the same way. 0:22:39.013 --> 0:22:42.133 And yet they believe in themselves an ability to take 0:22:42.213 --> 0:22:46.013 sides apart under the bas ball scenario. We'll be hearing 0:22:46.053 --> 0:22:49.613 from Stephen Finn very shortly and also from side Man. 0:22:49.733 --> 0:22:52.493 Just a final word from eu Jery. I know we 0:22:52.533 --> 0:22:54.573 could talk a lot more about this and we will 0:22:54.973 --> 0:22:57.413 reflect on it over a period of time. Do you 0:22:57.613 --> 0:23:00.773 see personally Brendan McCallum surviving as coach? 0:23:01.253 --> 0:23:06.013 Well, it's got a chance because I know that there 0:23:06.013 --> 0:23:10.613 are calls. But you know, while the inner sanctum of 0:23:10.693 --> 0:23:16.853 McCullum and Key, I think the Key is less at 0:23:16.933 --> 0:23:21.493 risk than McCullum just because of the job that he's got. 0:23:23.493 --> 0:23:26.493 I think the ECB who will be making the decision 0:23:27.053 --> 0:23:33.013 really Gould and co McCullum. For the first thing, he 0:23:33.133 --> 0:23:37.933 convinced them that Gould that he had changed right we're 0:23:37.973 --> 0:23:41.493 going back to just between us arriving and the end 0:23:41.533 --> 0:23:46.853 of the Ashes right that period. Secondly, they won the 0:23:46.853 --> 0:23:50.453 first Test Lord's which they might regard as signs of progress. 0:23:50.813 --> 0:23:53.773 Then twenty four hours later that's gone a bit, but 0:23:53.853 --> 0:23:56.693 not the fault of the management, not the fault of McCullum. 0:23:57.093 --> 0:24:00.093 I think they would look at it, and they might 0:24:00.133 --> 0:24:02.493 look at the fact that the crew the toss was 0:24:02.653 --> 0:24:06.013 fairly important and they lost it. However, they've only had 0:24:06.013 --> 0:24:10.653 two wins out of ten the last ten and since 0:24:11.053 --> 0:24:17.013 twenty twenty three it's a losing record. So mcculum is 0:24:17.093 --> 0:24:21.693 lucky to be there. I think That's how I feel. 0:24:21.893 --> 0:24:25.533 But who would they what would they do? I mean, 0:24:25.933 --> 0:24:29.493 they will probably feel that they would be more in 0:24:29.613 --> 0:24:36.253 control if Brooker's captain than they would if it was Stoked. 0:24:36.373 --> 0:24:39.173 Who would argue with them and be much more strong 0:24:39.693 --> 0:24:43.133 about it, I think, And so they might feel that 0:24:43.173 --> 0:24:45.893 they have got more power at that stage to run 0:24:45.933 --> 0:24:49.613 the run the cutter if you like. So it's a 0:24:49.733 --> 0:24:53.653 mixed and confusing picture, Wads. I don't really mind, to 0:24:53.693 --> 0:24:58.373 be honest, I'm just thrilled New Zealand have come from 0:24:58.453 --> 0:25:02.373 one down and they've won the last two Test matches convincingly. 0:25:02.893 --> 0:25:07.093 They've deserved the victory. They've quietly gone about the way 0:25:07.133 --> 0:25:10.653 to play Test cricket better than the opposition. 0:25:10.293 --> 0:25:13.973 Brian Waddell, Jeremy Coney on the front foot. 0:25:14.213 --> 0:25:18.453 It's a pleasure to be joined by former England pasteballer 0:25:18.533 --> 0:25:22.933 now BBC tist met special commentator Stephen Finn, who I've 0:25:22.973 --> 0:25:24.733 been fortunate enough to work with him the past, and 0:25:24.733 --> 0:25:27.613 of course he's a very close friend of New Zealand, 0:25:27.613 --> 0:25:29.613 having played a bit of time here in New Zealand. 0:25:29.693 --> 0:25:32.733 But I guess you don't celebrate sucist to the same 0:25:32.773 --> 0:25:35.293 extent that we do when New Zealand beat England. 0:25:35.293 --> 0:25:39.373 Funny, Not quite, i'd say, Brian, No, not quite. It's 0:25:40.333 --> 0:25:42.493 it's been a weird few days here. I think there's 0:25:42.493 --> 0:25:45.133 been loads of stuff going on on our side of 0:25:45.173 --> 0:25:48.613 the fence, clearly with the Ben Stokes retirement and all 0:25:48.653 --> 0:25:53.653 of the conjecture around that. But nothing should be taken 0:25:53.653 --> 0:25:56.533 away from the way New Zealand have played here. It's 0:25:56.573 --> 0:25:59.813 been it's been outstanding, and I think even more so 0:26:00.013 --> 0:26:03.533 given the fact that they were injury ravaged in this game, 0:26:04.453 --> 0:26:07.413 missing for of their what you would consider main players 0:26:07.453 --> 0:26:10.293 coming into this Test match, to then need a concussion 0:26:10.333 --> 0:26:13.653 substitute as well, but still come out with a huge victory. 0:26:13.653 --> 0:26:15.533 It's not just a small victory. This is a huge 0:26:15.613 --> 0:26:19.613 victory here at trent Bridge. They fully deserve this series winen, 0:26:19.653 --> 0:26:22.293 So I'm not celebrating it as much as you, but 0:26:22.413 --> 0:26:23.573 I respect it as much as you. 0:26:24.453 --> 0:26:27.853 That's great. Does it reflect that there are issues in 0:26:27.893 --> 0:26:30.213 the England game then at the moment. 0:26:31.253 --> 0:26:33.253 I think there's certainly a lot to look at. I 0:26:33.253 --> 0:26:35.133 think we'll have to let the dust settle on this 0:26:35.253 --> 0:26:38.773 series and then take a view looking forward about what 0:26:38.973 --> 0:26:42.573 is done next. But certainly when you're beaten this badly 0:26:42.613 --> 0:26:44.733 at home for the first time in a long time. 0:26:44.733 --> 0:26:46.653 I think it's the first series that England have lost 0:26:46.653 --> 0:26:50.733 at home in fourteen years, so that's a significant moment 0:26:50.813 --> 0:26:52.533 in time. So there's going to have to be a 0:26:52.533 --> 0:26:54.813 lot of reflection from the powers that v at the 0:26:54.853 --> 0:26:58.053 ECB about how this team and how the game in 0:26:58.093 --> 0:26:59.493 this country moves forward. 0:27:00.533 --> 0:27:04.613 Yeah, it's interesting because after the Lord's Test, where England 0:27:04.613 --> 0:27:08.253 won quite comprehensibly, they were not quite the same side. 0:27:08.533 --> 0:27:10.813 Do you think they were slightly in disarray because of 0:27:10.853 --> 0:27:13.333 the issues that came out of that Test match. 0:27:14.573 --> 0:27:16.933 Well, I think clearly those things didn't help. And when 0:27:16.933 --> 0:27:19.693 you go into the second Test match of a series 0:27:20.213 --> 0:27:23.973 having to give three debuts and five of the players 0:27:23.973 --> 0:27:26.373 in the team sharing two caps between them, I think 0:27:26.693 --> 0:27:29.693 that you're certainly up against it, especially when you come 0:27:29.773 --> 0:27:33.013 up against such a pragmatic team like New Zealand who 0:27:33.133 --> 0:27:35.893 just seemed to have a mentality that gets every ounce 0:27:35.933 --> 0:27:38.533 of talent out of each of their players on a 0:27:38.573 --> 0:27:41.933 consistent basis. So yeah, I'm sure those events didn't help, 0:27:41.973 --> 0:27:45.293 and certainly the disruption to the team didn't help, But 0:27:45.333 --> 0:27:47.733 again I don't think that should take anything away from 0:27:47.773 --> 0:27:49.053 what New Zealand have achieved him. 0:27:50.173 --> 0:27:53.493 It was a series that I suppose small moments played 0:27:53.533 --> 0:27:57.293 an important part, and those small moments were on both sides. 0:27:57.693 --> 0:28:01.133 But this third Test match, I guess the opening partnership 0:28:01.173 --> 0:28:05.453 between Latham and Conway and then the partnership between Mitchell 0:28:05.653 --> 0:28:08.293 and Ravendra were key moment. 0:28:09.653 --> 0:28:12.373 Yeah, I'd say that Mitchell and Revendra partnership was the 0:28:12.413 --> 0:28:16.413 one where I think at that stage New Zealand eight 0:28:16.453 --> 0:28:18.773 for two was it eighteen for two something like that 0:28:18.813 --> 0:28:23.093 in the second innings with a lead but still a 0:28:23.093 --> 0:28:25.333 low number for two in the second innings, I think 0:28:25.333 --> 0:28:27.933 that that was the moment that England could have come 0:28:27.973 --> 0:28:30.933 piling through the door but both of those guys said no, 0:28:31.253 --> 0:28:34.333 not today. And Daryl Mitchell's innings in particular, I thought 0:28:34.373 --> 0:28:36.733 Revener was really classy and he put the pressure back 0:28:36.773 --> 0:28:39.653 on the bowlers. But the way that Mitchell, he must 0:28:39.653 --> 0:28:41.893 have worn blows on almost every inch of his body. 0:28:41.893 --> 0:28:43.933 I think all of his fingers on his right hand 0:28:43.973 --> 0:28:48.413 got hit, his head, his ribs, his inner thigh, and 0:28:48.453 --> 0:28:50.893 he just kept going and was resolute in his defense 0:28:50.933 --> 0:28:53.093 and then opened up as the innings went on when 0:28:53.093 --> 0:28:55.373 he was batting with the tail to score a brilliant 0:28:55.373 --> 0:28:57.893 Test Match hundred. So I think that was the partnership 0:28:57.893 --> 0:29:00.813 that really won New Zealand the game. But certainly that 0:29:00.933 --> 0:29:04.493 opening partnership, having won the toss and batted first, put 0:29:04.493 --> 0:29:06.013 the key was in a fantastic position. 0:29:06.933 --> 0:29:10.133 Was there relation in that for England, particularly in their 0:29:10.173 --> 0:29:12.733 second and English when they came out with the attacking 0:29:13.373 --> 0:29:16.733 approach that has been well part of their game in 0:29:16.813 --> 0:29:21.133 recent times, but didn't really have the ability to adjust 0:29:21.333 --> 0:29:23.133 to the style that was needed. 0:29:25.013 --> 0:29:28.893 Yeah, I think certainly that a lot can be learned 0:29:28.933 --> 0:29:32.013 by England for the way that New Zealand played in 0:29:32.053 --> 0:29:35.133 this series. And I think the way that New Zealand 0:29:35.173 --> 0:29:38.693 played the moments is the most important thing. The way 0:29:38.693 --> 0:29:42.853 that New Zealand managed to manage to play the significant 0:29:42.853 --> 0:29:47.133 moments within games and make the right decisions in those 0:29:47.133 --> 0:29:49.493 moments is what sets them apart from other teams. And 0:29:49.693 --> 0:29:53.893 just like to fin off on Ben Stokes, Yeah, look 0:29:53.893 --> 0:29:58.613 what a career. He's had a remarkable career. He's been 0:29:58.653 --> 0:30:01.293 part of some of the most significant moments in English sport, 0:30:01.373 --> 0:30:05.653 not just not just cricket in English sports. So yeah, 0:30:05.693 --> 0:30:09.213 he's It was a surprise decision I think with the 0:30:09.253 --> 0:30:12.533 Ashes just twelve months away. But a player who wears 0:30:12.533 --> 0:30:16.773 his heart in his sleep like Ben Stokes is going 0:30:16.813 --> 0:30:18.413 to be a sore mist for English cricket and it's 0:30:18.413 --> 0:30:20.053 sad to see him not playing for England again. 0:30:20.893 --> 0:30:23.613 Yeah, the timing was pretty strange. Wasn't the middle of 0:30:23.653 --> 0:30:24.213 a Test match? 0:30:24.413 --> 0:30:24.613 Yes? 0:30:24.733 --> 0:30:26.853 Yeah, I think it was. But Ben Stokes is an 0:30:26.893 --> 0:30:30.253 unconventional character and he doesn't do things like everyone else, 0:30:30.293 --> 0:30:31.293 so it was kind of fitting. 0:30:31.533 --> 0:30:33.773 Just one final question, it's been a Test series of 0:30:33.853 --> 0:30:39.813 past bowlers. Both sides had significant past bowling bettery that 0:30:39.893 --> 0:30:43.013 would probably please you as a former England past bowler. 0:30:43.453 --> 0:30:46.133 Yes, I love watching fast bowling. I think Will O'Rourke 0:30:46.253 --> 0:30:48.973 is someone that I've really enjoyed watching, especially over the 0:30:49.013 --> 0:30:51.933 last few weeks, but since he started his career with 0:30:52.013 --> 0:30:55.493 New Zealand. I like my tall quicks Brian, so yeah 0:30:55.533 --> 0:30:58.533 to see him thundering in and causing problems. I hope 0:30:58.533 --> 0:31:01.013 his injury here that he walked off with today isn't 0:31:01.053 --> 0:31:03.573 too bad because he's a star of the future for sure. 0:31:04.453 --> 0:31:06.133 All right, Fanny, thanks very much for your time. 0:31:06.613 --> 0:31:08.733 Patrick, No, I was sorry about that. 0:31:08.733 --> 0:31:09.133 That's right. 0:31:09.253 --> 0:31:10.653 Might be able to catch up some other time, I 0:31:10.693 --> 0:31:11.733 hope sounds good. 0:31:11.773 --> 0:31:15.973 Matt, all right, thanks mate on the front foot with 0:31:16.173 --> 0:31:17.013 Waddle and Cody. 0:31:18.493 --> 0:31:21.453 Well, my thanks to Stephen Finn for joining us. Haven't 0:31:21.533 --> 0:31:24.173 spoken to Finny for quite some time since he was 0:31:24.213 --> 0:31:27.573 out here in New Zealand such a long time ago. 0:31:27.853 --> 0:31:31.773 Another man who I've worked with over a long period 0:31:31.773 --> 0:31:36.453 of time one of the leading commentators for BBC Test 0:31:36.493 --> 0:31:41.533 Match specialists, Simon Mann, who's followed the trials and tribulations 0:31:41.533 --> 0:31:45.173 of the game in England. And Simon, I'm sure it 0:31:45.293 --> 0:31:49.693 must be hard for you, as a broadcaster and a 0:31:49.733 --> 0:31:52.853 cricket fan as well to see the way things are 0:31:52.933 --> 0:31:56.613 going at the moment. So particularly around the captaincy, the coach, 0:31:56.893 --> 0:31:59.653 the leadership of the side, and the game is taking 0:31:59.693 --> 0:32:00.893 second place, isn't it. 0:32:00.893 --> 0:32:02.173 It's nice to be with you, Brian. 0:32:02.573 --> 0:32:05.293 Firstly, I think one thing I would say is we've 0:32:05.373 --> 0:32:08.293 kind of seen all this before many times over the years, 0:32:08.453 --> 0:32:10.973 so it feels a little bit like a soap opera 0:32:11.213 --> 0:32:17.013 sometimes English cricket nothing really surprises you. But the really 0:32:17.573 --> 0:32:20.733 disappointing thing I think was last winter in the Ashes 0:32:20.893 --> 0:32:25.333 where England played. They didn't prepare properly and their tactics 0:32:25.333 --> 0:32:27.693 were poor, and I think that was the that felt 0:32:27.733 --> 0:32:31.493 like the nadir, and they tried to sort it out 0:32:31.493 --> 0:32:36.013 from here and have continuity. It's not worked. Ben Stokes 0:32:36.133 --> 0:32:40.293 is obviously standing down. Brenda McCullum says he wants to continue. 0:32:41.213 --> 0:32:44.173 It feels like the end of an era. It feels 0:32:44.213 --> 0:32:50.213 like a time for change again. We'll see what happens 0:32:50.293 --> 0:32:54.013 in pro sport. Watching it, observing it is fascinating. It's 0:32:54.053 --> 0:32:57.413 better not to get too emotionally involved, and it's probably 0:32:57.413 --> 0:32:59.413 better not to get too up or too down. 0:33:00.053 --> 0:33:02.573 Yeah, but I mean it must be disappointing. Does it 0:33:02.613 --> 0:33:06.173 seem to you as just another retirement story? Or are 0:33:06.213 --> 0:33:09.493 their biggest issues involved in this peak Because England cricket 0:33:09.773 --> 0:33:12.933 over the period of time, particularly after the Ashes had 0:33:12.973 --> 0:33:16.013 to fight up to that defeat, there seems to be 0:33:16.213 --> 0:33:21.693 conspiracy theories abounding far and wide. Is it a bigger 0:33:21.693 --> 0:33:25.973 issue than just failure of the team at the top level. 0:33:27.533 --> 0:33:28.813 I think that's a really good question. 0:33:29.373 --> 0:33:33.253 I think that's I think sometimes you have to take 0:33:33.973 --> 0:33:36.013 players coaches at face value. 0:33:36.053 --> 0:33:36.613 Not all the time. 0:33:36.733 --> 0:33:40.573 I think sometimes they do dissemble, but I think sometimes 0:33:40.613 --> 0:33:42.293 you do have to take them at face value. And 0:33:42.293 --> 0:33:45.973 what I think has been clear over the last three 0:33:46.053 --> 0:33:48.773 weeks four weeks of this series is that Ben Stokes 0:33:48.813 --> 0:33:52.173 has felt kind of frazzled and it has been time 0:33:52.293 --> 0:33:54.813 to quit. So you had the Ashes where England had 0:33:54.853 --> 0:33:57.373 all these high hopes. They thought they've got it all together, 0:33:57.493 --> 0:33:59.653 they were going to challenge Australia and it fell so 0:33:59.813 --> 0:34:01.813 flat and they were hammered in Australia and the cricket 0:34:01.853 --> 0:34:04.053 was abysmal, and there was so much criticism and there 0:34:04.093 --> 0:34:06.893 was so much anger among England supporters. So I think 0:34:06.893 --> 0:34:09.773 what happened then sort of right, we're going to continue. 0:34:09.813 --> 0:34:11.773 It's going to be the same structure they went to 0:34:11.813 --> 0:34:14.453 the start of the season. Benston turned up at Lauds 0:34:14.533 --> 0:34:17.093 and he just it just didn't feel right for him. 0:34:17.293 --> 0:34:20.253 And then of course the events subsequently I think probably 0:34:20.533 --> 0:34:23.093 pushed him over made him think, yeah, that really sort 0:34:23.133 --> 0:34:24.613 of made his mind up. So I think there is 0:34:24.653 --> 0:34:28.133 an element in which the politics, if you like, of 0:34:28.173 --> 0:34:33.293 the situation, his frustration that like, for example, I don't 0:34:33.293 --> 0:34:36.573 think he thought he broke a curfew on that night 0:34:36.613 --> 0:34:41.293 out in Chelsea, but you also think, well, would after 0:34:41.373 --> 0:34:44.453 everything happened in the Ashes, would the captain not think 0:34:44.733 --> 0:34:48.413 it's best not to go out after a Test match win? So, 0:34:49.893 --> 0:34:52.213 and whether that was kind of symptomatic of where his 0:34:52.213 --> 0:34:53.973 head was. You know, I just need to I just 0:34:53.973 --> 0:34:55.853 need to go out. I just need to unwind whatever 0:34:56.333 --> 0:34:59.853 and whatever the consequences, you know, we'll find that tomorrow. 0:34:59.973 --> 0:35:02.213 But I think what they were unlucky with is the 0:35:02.253 --> 0:35:04.973 fact that the players can easily have gone out, but 0:35:05.053 --> 0:35:07.773 no one would have known about it when it kicked off. 0:35:07.773 --> 0:35:09.093 In that you know, when the. 0:35:09.213 --> 0:35:12.973 When the the rugby player swung a punch, it then 0:35:13.013 --> 0:35:15.613 became an incident, so we might not have ever found 0:35:15.653 --> 0:35:17.853 out about it without that incidance. So it was kind 0:35:17.893 --> 0:35:20.733 of an unlucky set of circumstances in a way, although 0:35:20.733 --> 0:35:23.693 you know you put yourself in danger by going out 0:35:24.013 --> 0:35:25.973 and then I think what happened then is that there 0:35:25.973 --> 0:35:28.693 was a real kickback into bend stakes for that and 0:35:28.733 --> 0:35:31.213 he thought, well, really that's just made my mind up. 0:35:31.253 --> 0:35:34.413 But I'm here saying yesterday that yeah, it was, it 0:35:34.493 --> 0:35:37.973 was part of it. But he was felt he was 0:35:38.093 --> 0:35:42.293 kind of done. And I think the ash's defeats, especially 0:35:42.373 --> 0:35:44.653 the nature of one England suffering in the winter, that 0:35:44.733 --> 0:35:47.133 they're kind of hard on a on a captain and 0:35:47.133 --> 0:35:48.773 he's been doing the job for four years, he's been 0:35:48.813 --> 0:35:52.493 playing international cricket for well over a decade and he's 0:35:52.493 --> 0:35:55.213 had always injuries over time and bounced back out all 0:35:55.253 --> 0:35:58.173 sorts of other controversies as well and bounced back. But 0:35:58.213 --> 0:36:00.173 in the end it might just it might just wear 0:36:00.253 --> 0:36:00.653 you down. 0:36:01.093 --> 0:36:05.133 I since from Afar that he's a beloved character in 0:36:05.493 --> 0:36:09.253 the majority of cases with people that he is regarded 0:36:09.293 --> 0:36:11.733 as one of the best all round us that England 0:36:12.093 --> 0:36:14.613 has been able to put out on the park. But 0:36:14.733 --> 0:36:17.133 I don't see that the sense that there's the same 0:36:17.213 --> 0:36:22.173 feeling about Brendan McCullum and even Rob Key, and there 0:36:22.173 --> 0:36:26.013 are people on social media, I know the Keyboard Warriors 0:36:26.053 --> 0:36:30.013 and they become anonymous. But those are the things that 0:36:30.573 --> 0:36:35.733 basically cause issues in the administration of the game. Is 0:36:36.293 --> 0:36:37.053 McCollum safe. 0:36:37.253 --> 0:36:40.453 That's again, Brian, you're asking all the personal questions and 0:36:40.573 --> 0:36:43.093 that's a that's a very good question. I mean I 0:36:43.133 --> 0:36:46.413 did an interview with them afterwards where I said to 0:36:46.453 --> 0:36:48.213 you know, do you intend to carry on? He said, yeah, 0:36:48.253 --> 0:36:52.533 I'm totally committed. I said do you expect to carry on? 0:36:52.653 --> 0:36:54.813 And he gave me basically a one word answer, yeah, 0:36:54.853 --> 0:36:56.813 that's part of the process or something like that. 0:36:58.173 --> 0:36:59.533 It's to be decided. 0:36:59.573 --> 0:37:01.773 Really, I think there is a there is no You 0:37:01.813 --> 0:37:05.013 could kind of get a sense that among England cricket 0:37:05.053 --> 0:37:07.493 sports because it's difficult without you going to speak to 0:37:07.533 --> 0:37:09.533 all of them. I get a sense that they feel 0:37:09.573 --> 0:37:11.013 the wrong person that's gone. 0:37:11.053 --> 0:37:11.573 Not everyone. 0:37:11.933 --> 0:37:14.373 I think some people frustrated, say what Ben Staates did 0:37:14.413 --> 0:37:16.453 after the Test match. But I think there's the feeling 0:37:16.533 --> 0:37:20.933 that Brenda McCullum's coaching methods have run their course. Now 0:37:20.973 --> 0:37:23.733 they work for a while because a low EBB and 0:37:23.813 --> 0:37:26.973 they were able to kind of reinvent the team get 0:37:27.013 --> 0:37:29.013 the fun back into the game, get the crowds going, 0:37:29.013 --> 0:37:31.253 but then the results of a dip because teams have 0:37:31.293 --> 0:37:33.813 adapted playing against them, they've kind of. 0:37:33.853 --> 0:37:35.333 Let themselves disrupt, if you like. 0:37:35.373 --> 0:37:37.613 And so it's time for something a bit more if 0:37:37.773 --> 0:37:40.213 for want of a better word, a bit more serious, 0:37:40.253 --> 0:37:45.253 a bit more strategic. So we'll see. I mean, one 0:37:45.373 --> 0:37:49.213 aspect for Benda McCullum now is and this is slightly ridiculous, 0:37:49.413 --> 0:37:51.253 is that because he's the white bull coach as well, 0:37:51.533 --> 0:37:54.413 is that tomorrow England have got a white ball series 0:37:54.413 --> 0:37:57.013 starting against India, which is high profile here. You know 0:37:57.053 --> 0:37:59.373 what an India series is like, it pays all the bills, 0:37:59.373 --> 0:38:02.773 you know, the crowds are behaving, so and there's a 0:38:02.813 --> 0:38:04.373 World Cup next year as well as the One Day 0:38:04.373 --> 0:38:07.853 International Series afterwards, and England are struggling in the in 0:38:07.893 --> 0:38:10.453 the ranking in one day international cricket, so the most 0:38:10.493 --> 0:38:12.613 important matches coming up, so it's kind of like not 0:38:12.693 --> 0:38:14.533 just red ball, but it's also white ball as well 0:38:14.533 --> 0:38:17.693 in England haven't been that good in one day cricket recently, 0:38:18.013 --> 0:38:21.253 so there's there's a bit going into this. But then 0:38:21.253 --> 0:38:23.613 there's a break of about a month while we played 0:38:23.613 --> 0:38:26.213 one hundred and then there's another Test series, so there's 0:38:26.213 --> 0:38:28.613 a bit of time after this series to sort it out, 0:38:28.653 --> 0:38:30.613 to sort out what they're going to do. 0:38:31.973 --> 0:38:35.253 The sad effect of all of this is that there 0:38:35.293 --> 0:38:39.813 was a three Test series and it produced some spectacular cricket. 0:38:39.853 --> 0:38:44.653 At times, there were moments where individual came to the 0:38:44.693 --> 0:38:48.733 fore and did the business. And a lot of this 0:38:48.973 --> 0:38:55.213 is basically taking the away from the fans that there 0:38:55.333 --> 0:38:58.173 is a game of cricket there and they're still turning 0:38:58.293 --> 0:39:00.533 up to watch and there's still a lot of interest 0:39:00.733 --> 0:39:02.133 in the game in England. 0:39:03.053 --> 0:39:06.413 Yeah, that the crowds have been fantastic for this Test series. 0:39:06.613 --> 0:39:08.573 I also feel a bit sorry for New Zealand because 0:39:08.933 --> 0:39:11.813 you know, they've come here, they won the last two 0:39:11.853 --> 0:39:17.213 Test matches, played really good, sort of sensible, professional, hard 0:39:17.333 --> 0:39:21.893 nosed cricket and in a way that the bench states 0:39:22.013 --> 0:39:25.293 yesterday and the day before, his retirement has kind of 0:39:25.293 --> 0:39:28.893 been the central focus and you can understand that to 0:39:28.893 --> 0:39:31.773 some extent because it's you know, he has been an 0:39:31.773 --> 0:39:34.453 important figure for English cricket. He was the captain and 0:39:34.493 --> 0:39:36.613 he's produced some amazing things over the years, so you 0:39:37.013 --> 0:39:38.893 kind of do celebrate the end of that, but it 0:39:38.973 --> 0:39:41.493 has kind of like shifted the focus away from an 0:39:41.533 --> 0:39:45.773 excellent performance from New Zealand and also that in a 0:39:45.813 --> 0:39:47.573 way the last Test match as well, because all that 0:39:47.613 --> 0:39:50.093 was about, you know, England sort of mixing matching their 0:39:50.133 --> 0:39:52.533 team having to make five changes for various reasons, and 0:39:53.413 --> 0:39:56.133 so here the story would have been so much focused 0:39:56.133 --> 0:39:59.333 on that and very little on you know what New 0:39:59.453 --> 0:40:01.653 Zealand have done well. I mean Daryl Mitchell for example, 0:40:02.333 --> 0:40:05.933 what a what a fantastic innings he played. You know 0:40:06.093 --> 0:40:09.933 everyone's probably seen the images of his body bruised and battered, 0:40:10.533 --> 0:40:13.813 and you know the England supporters barracking him with boring, 0:40:13.893 --> 0:40:17.053 boring Mitchell. But you know, if you're dal Mix and 0:40:17.093 --> 0:40:19.293 I think he loved it. I mean, any self respecting 0:40:19.293 --> 0:40:21.013 cricketer would love it when the crowd get on their 0:40:21.013 --> 0:40:21.533 back like that. 0:40:21.493 --> 0:40:24.373 Because it shows he's making a good job of it. 0:40:24.413 --> 0:40:27.773 And he did and it was brilliant and just played 0:40:27.813 --> 0:40:29.853 so well to come back in the series and win 0:40:29.933 --> 0:40:32.693 the first that's a bit of lottery. Second Test, you know, 0:40:32.733 --> 0:40:36.013 they exploited English problems and this one they just played 0:40:36.013 --> 0:40:39.213 that excellent cricket but not always but you know, they 0:40:39.293 --> 0:40:41.853 played enough of it to get over the line. 0:40:42.413 --> 0:40:45.813 Yeah, Daryl Mitchell obviously enjoyed the fact that his father 0:40:46.013 --> 0:40:50.693 was an all Black rugby player, probably bred that in 0:40:50.693 --> 0:40:54.413 to his mentality. But I mean that was you know, 0:40:55.293 --> 0:40:58.333 that was one issue. And I think in that Test 0:40:58.453 --> 0:41:02.933 match that has just been completed, his betting should have 0:41:02.973 --> 0:41:08.253 been a lesson for England. I can't believe. And I 0:41:08.973 --> 0:41:12.253 saw some of the television footage of New Zealanders at 0:41:12.253 --> 0:41:14.773 a fall of a wickets saying what are they doing? 0:41:15.253 --> 0:41:18.773 And Jamie Smith I think proved that. You know, England 0:41:18.893 --> 0:41:21.613 might well have got close had they had wickets in hand, 0:41:21.613 --> 0:41:26.493 but they fired them away. Was that part of their mentality? 0:41:26.773 --> 0:41:31.173 Was it a two fingers salute to the English cricket board. 0:41:31.333 --> 0:41:33.973 What brought about that? Or was it just you know, 0:41:34.213 --> 0:41:37.813 this is bearsball, will play it this way and. 0:41:37.893 --> 0:41:40.293 Again I wonder whether this will come out in time. 0:41:40.613 --> 0:41:42.653 But what that was about, I mean, in a way 0:41:42.693 --> 0:41:46.053 it was that was how Igland were playing in the 0:41:46.093 --> 0:41:48.413 first two years. They would come out and they would 0:41:48.453 --> 0:41:50.213 they would go at it really hard and I think 0:41:50.253 --> 0:41:53.933 they thought the pitch was really poor and I think it, yeah, 0:41:54.453 --> 0:41:57.333 I thought like two sevenths of the pitch was actually 0:41:57.413 --> 0:41:59.493 quite dangerous by the end or you know, one seventh 0:41:59.493 --> 0:42:01.893 of the pitch, but obviously if you didn't, if you 0:42:01.893 --> 0:42:04.693 didn't hit those dangerous bits, then it was fine. You 0:42:04.733 --> 0:42:07.493 could bat and you kind of bided your time like 0:42:07.613 --> 0:42:11.413 Jamie Smith did, like Mitchell did, and if you know 0:42:11.413 --> 0:42:13.333 you're going to take the odd blow, the wants. 0:42:13.173 --> 0:42:14.333 Going to fly over your shoulder. 0:42:14.373 --> 0:42:16.373 But if you could survive that on, you go, because 0:42:16.373 --> 0:42:19.133 there were enough good bits of the surface to survive on. 0:42:19.253 --> 0:42:21.453 I think they thought the pitch was poor and that 0:42:21.573 --> 0:42:24.173 the only way that they could chase that down was 0:42:24.213 --> 0:42:26.053 to go back to old methods, was just to really 0:42:26.053 --> 0:42:28.453 try to put the pressure on New Zealand and take 0:42:28.493 --> 0:42:28.693 it on. 0:42:28.813 --> 0:42:30.173 And it kind of worked for a bit. Brian. 0:42:30.213 --> 0:42:32.613 They were fifty for no wicket. I thought when they 0:42:32.653 --> 0:42:36.173 got to about forty in the field was back. I thought, 0:42:36.173 --> 0:42:37.973 why didn't you just knock it around, Just knock it 0:42:38.013 --> 0:42:40.973 around and build the innings come back tomorrow and the 0:42:41.053 --> 0:42:44.133 build the pressure on New Zealand. But States got caught 0:42:44.173 --> 0:42:44.693 the mid wicket. 0:42:44.733 --> 0:42:47.653 As we know. It's also worth just bearing in mind. 0:42:47.693 --> 0:42:50.013 I know there were one or two extravagant shots played 0:42:50.013 --> 0:42:52.093 by they say a media gay came in on the 0:42:52.093 --> 0:42:55.213 pair and played reverse sweet first ball, but Bethel played 0:42:55.213 --> 0:42:58.133 no shot. Duckett got a really good ball, So those, 0:42:58.253 --> 0:42:59.973 you know, those were two of the wickets as well. 0:43:00.333 --> 0:43:02.133 Harry Brooke, I think was always going to come out 0:43:02.333 --> 0:43:05.213 and play in that way, and I'm probably in a 0:43:05.253 --> 0:43:07.613 minority of one with that. I actually thought he was 0:43:07.613 --> 0:43:10.333 a bit unlucky with his dismissal because the ball he 0:43:10.413 --> 0:43:12.253 hit for six was very similar to the ball that 0:43:12.293 --> 0:43:15.053 got him out, and it was there for that. It 0:43:15.093 --> 0:43:18.893 was there for the instinctive stroke. Okay didn't execute particularly well. 0:43:18.933 --> 0:43:20.493 He was caught on the fine name boundary and it 0:43:20.533 --> 0:43:23.093 looked a terrible dismissal in the context of his innings. 0:43:23.293 --> 0:43:26.053 But that could easily have sailed away for six as well. 0:43:28.213 --> 0:43:31.453 So there was a lot going into that evening. 0:43:31.693 --> 0:43:34.653 I think that was it. They felt the pit was poor. 0:43:35.613 --> 0:43:37.813 They wanted to put the pressure back on New Zealand, 0:43:38.053 --> 0:43:40.813 but I think the adrenaline of the situation meant they 0:43:40.853 --> 0:43:43.293 did get a bit carried away. But I don't think 0:43:43.333 --> 0:43:45.693 any team, I really don't think any team was chasing 0:43:45.773 --> 0:43:48.093 three seventi on that surface, although as it turned out, 0:43:48.133 --> 0:43:50.973 of course he zoom Brian New Zealand have had half 0:43:51.013 --> 0:43:52.893 a bowling attack because there'd so many injuries. 0:43:54.253 --> 0:43:57.493 In normal circumstances, England probably would have been capable of 0:43:57.533 --> 0:44:01.973 chasing that down if pitch conditions and other things have 0:44:02.133 --> 0:44:06.773 been in their favor. The one final question, though, Simon, 0:44:06.893 --> 0:44:10.653 is looking here part of your job to see what 0:44:10.933 --> 0:44:16.613 is forthcoming in terms of England cricket. Is Harry Brooke 0:44:16.813 --> 0:44:22.693 the right man to take over from being stakes? 0:44:24.373 --> 0:44:28.653 My instinct says no, But I don't know what the 0:44:28.813 --> 0:44:32.373 alternatives are. That's the problem. And he has done captaincy before. 0:44:32.373 --> 0:44:34.693 He's captain of the white ball team. I don't think 0:44:34.693 --> 0:44:36.413 he can captain the white ball team and the Red 0:44:36.413 --> 0:44:39.053 Bull team. Well he can captain. He obviously can't do it, 0:44:39.533 --> 0:44:42.613 but it is the burden to be you know. For example, 0:44:42.613 --> 0:44:44.413 I was just saying, they've just gone for a Test match, 0:44:44.413 --> 0:44:47.253 they've got one day's break and they're into a twenty series. 0:44:47.413 --> 0:44:48.013 Well you can't. 0:44:48.093 --> 0:44:50.773 You can't put that on a captain, you know, how 0:44:50.813 --> 0:44:53.333 can you plan? For example? So I wonder if they 0:44:53.333 --> 0:44:56.453 did make Harry Brooke Red Bull captain, whether they'd have 0:44:56.453 --> 0:44:58.413 to have a different white Ball captain relieving of the 0:44:58.453 --> 0:45:03.053 whiteboard captaincy someone like Sam Cohen or possibly possibly even 0:45:03.253 --> 0:45:06.453 Jacob Bethel. But how they could go back to Joe 0:45:06.493 --> 0:45:09.893 Rooter's Test captain, but it's feels as though that ship 0:45:09.893 --> 0:45:12.413 has sailed unless they say to Joe, right, Joe, you're 0:45:12.413 --> 0:45:14.173 our captain for a year until the end of the 0:45:14.253 --> 0:45:16.573 Ashes and that's it. You know, that's your that's your tenure. 0:45:16.813 --> 0:45:20.133 So not appoint in England captain such, but appointed England 0:45:20.133 --> 0:45:25.173 captain with a clear end point in mind. So the 0:45:25.493 --> 0:45:29.133 options aren't obvious, Brian, because this is now a youngish 0:45:29.173 --> 0:45:32.493 team and a lot of the older senior players are gone. 0:45:32.573 --> 0:45:35.213 I think in the future someone like Jacob Bethel could 0:45:35.213 --> 0:45:37.133 turn into an England captain. I'd be and I would 0:45:37.173 --> 0:45:38.573 be if you said to me, now, do you think 0:45:38.653 --> 0:45:41.573 one Jacob Bethel will one day Beingland Test captain? I'd 0:45:41.653 --> 0:45:44.173 say yes, I think he probably will be. But obviously 0:45:44.173 --> 0:45:46.613 he's got to start, you establishing himself in the team's 0:45:46.613 --> 0:45:51.653 school runs. So not many options, Brian. That's the that's 0:45:51.693 --> 0:45:54.253 the problem I think for England. So they kind of 0:45:54.333 --> 0:45:56.533 might have to go to Harry Brook. Ben Stokes said yesterday, 0:45:56.693 --> 0:45:58.653 you know, he said Harry Brook is the man. He 0:45:58.653 --> 0:46:02.453 gave his firm backing afterwards, so we'll see what happens. 0:46:03.053 --> 0:46:07.413 Brian Waddell, Jeremy Coney on the front foot, thanks. 0:46:07.253 --> 0:46:10.373 Forms too, Slim and man for joining the program after 0:46:10.453 --> 0:46:14.493 what has been a fairly hectic week of Test crickets 0:46:14.573 --> 0:46:18.533 at trent Bridge and quite bizarre to a certain extent. 0:46:18.653 --> 0:46:22.053 Peter Holland joins us once again, and I mean what 0:46:22.173 --> 0:46:25.373 I finished to that Test match. It just highlighted to 0:46:25.413 --> 0:46:30.493 me how superior the Black Caps were to England in 0:46:30.533 --> 0:46:35.093 that series, bearing in mind the way both sides played 0:46:35.093 --> 0:46:36.653 the latter stages of the Test. 0:46:37.573 --> 0:46:39.853 I think you used the word bizarre, and it was 0:46:39.853 --> 0:46:43.173 something that was knocking around on my head as well, 0:46:43.573 --> 0:46:47.613 because when you sit back and reflect on the three 0:46:47.693 --> 0:46:52.693 Tests and what happened at Lord's and then to think 0:46:52.733 --> 0:46:59.413 that two victories by New Zealand comprehensive at that should 0:46:59.533 --> 0:47:04.933 ensue with essentially quite in some respects quite different teams 0:47:05.773 --> 0:47:09.333 between the second and the third Test in regards of 0:47:09.413 --> 0:47:17.773 bowling reserves. It was. It was truly quite mesmerizing. What 0:47:17.893 --> 0:47:20.213 I also love. Of course we got under the fifth 0:47:20.293 --> 0:47:22.013 day and twice. Wasn't that good? 0:47:23.053 --> 0:47:26.133 Yeah, almost definitely, even though you didn't get the number 0:47:26.173 --> 0:47:27.893 of overs in a day you should get. I guess 0:47:28.133 --> 0:47:31.893 we have to make allowances for the heat, but it 0:47:32.053 --> 0:47:37.293 was it was impressive stuff from New Zealand. And you 0:47:37.453 --> 0:47:41.093 as a well, I think he might have been sort 0:47:41.093 --> 0:47:43.973 of vaguely and all round it, but basically a batsman 0:47:45.613 --> 0:47:49.813 at the top level. You must have enjoyed some of 0:47:49.813 --> 0:47:52.493 those innings. And I've been trying to toss up on 0:47:52.533 --> 0:47:55.693 my mind which innings was the best, and there were 0:47:55.733 --> 0:47:58.293 some really good ones there, but I've narrowed it down 0:47:58.373 --> 0:48:04.253 to one between two. Was the innings of Mitchell in 0:48:04.293 --> 0:48:07.693 the second innings and outstanding one hundred or was it 0:48:07.733 --> 0:48:13.093 the innings of Phillips and his ability to combat an 0:48:13.173 --> 0:48:16.933 evil spell of bowling by Joffra Archer. I mean, they 0:48:16.973 --> 0:48:20.373 were both significant features of the series, weren't they. 0:48:21.053 --> 0:48:21.773 Yeah. 0:48:21.973 --> 0:48:23.933 You make a very an interesting point there, Briant, because 0:48:23.973 --> 0:48:27.733 I I thought Mitchell, you know, earlier, earlier in the series, 0:48:27.973 --> 0:48:31.373 wasn't really giving us what we were looking for, hadn't 0:48:31.413 --> 0:48:36.613 really sort of clicked in, and yet that was just 0:48:36.613 --> 0:48:40.533 just fantastic knock on every level, and the way he 0:48:40.573 --> 0:48:42.373 went about it and the way he took England out 0:48:42.373 --> 0:48:45.053 of the game against a good attack too. It's not 0:48:45.293 --> 0:48:48.293 it's not disregard that. But then you roll back to 0:48:48.333 --> 0:48:52.093 Phillips and as both of those innings has put New 0:48:52.173 --> 0:48:56.493 Zealand or took the game away from England, so they 0:48:56.533 --> 0:49:00.293 were significant. It wasn't as if it wasn't as if. 0:49:00.213 --> 0:49:02.933 It was just like a yeah, any hundreds of great hundred, 0:49:02.973 --> 0:49:05.973 but these were These were special hundreds, both of them, 0:49:06.573 --> 0:49:10.213 and in very try condition and playing in a way 0:49:10.253 --> 0:49:14.373 which which in Phillips's case was sort of counterintuitive to 0:49:14.373 --> 0:49:17.773 what we normally see of him, and and as Jerry 0:49:17.813 --> 0:49:20.973 pointed out last week, trying not to play the ball 0:49:21.453 --> 0:49:25.453 and getting overs into Archer which ultimately caused him in 0:49:25.453 --> 0:49:27.373 they're boling an eight over spell which and then he 0:49:27.413 --> 0:49:30.133 couldn't turn up the next day according to the whoever 0:49:30.413 --> 0:49:34.853 controls these things. So Phillips that that was a fantastic noto. 0:49:34.973 --> 0:49:38.613 But probably I end up landing on on Mitchell simply 0:49:38.653 --> 0:49:43.093 because of the way that he just took on the 0:49:43.133 --> 0:49:47.213 English attack and ge wears I mean getting belted in 0:49:47.253 --> 0:49:50.293 the elbow, I mean that hurts, and he just shrugged 0:49:50.333 --> 0:49:53.133 it off and attacking a couple in the ReBs if 0:49:53.133 --> 0:49:57.493 you don't mind in the fingers. I mean, that's that's 0:49:57.773 --> 0:49:59.973 that's that's good stuff. And I think a lot of 0:50:00.053 --> 0:50:04.253 commentators were watching that and saying this is this is 0:50:04.253 --> 0:50:07.853 a pretty special earnings and and so so it was 0:50:07.933 --> 0:50:10.773 so I am hard to split, but I think I'm 0:50:10.773 --> 0:50:13.133 gonna I'm gonna land on on on the case of 0:50:13.413 --> 0:50:18.533 Mitchell because it really it really put put England out 0:50:18.573 --> 0:50:19.973 of the game big time. 0:50:20.853 --> 0:50:24.893 To score one hundred against England in England is as 0:50:24.933 --> 0:50:26.453 a as a as a great achievement. 0:50:26.733 --> 0:50:29.773 What this is done again when you when you sit 0:50:29.853 --> 0:50:32.733 down and looked at the three Test series and what's 0:50:32.813 --> 0:50:35.733 ended up happening is is that you've got Nichols coming 0:50:35.733 --> 0:50:37.773 in and playing. And I was rather critical of him. 0:50:37.773 --> 0:50:40.973 So I've got to eat humble pie there, You've got 0:50:40.973 --> 0:50:43.133 to You've got a lot of pike. 0:50:43.453 --> 0:50:48.053 Maybe too much pike for me, but but and then 0:50:48.093 --> 0:50:52.373 you had you had he came in and performs extremely well, 0:50:52.653 --> 0:50:55.253 you know, gets it, gets gets a, gets a twenty 0:50:55.293 --> 0:50:59.333 and twenty five when it was needed, you know, twenty 0:50:59.373 --> 0:51:00.613 five off seveny odd balls. 0:51:00.613 --> 0:51:03.613 That sort of stuff. That's good stuff. And then then 0:51:03.653 --> 0:51:06.733 the other players, the breadth of players we've ended up 0:51:06.813 --> 0:51:10.293 using because you see, well the team that ended up 0:51:10.293 --> 0:51:13.093 going me picked for the third Test, absent Phillips, absent 0:51:13.253 --> 0:51:15.653 Henry Well. That going to be under pressure, aren't they? 0:51:16.213 --> 0:51:19.133 You would have thought, because I argued with the world's 0:51:19.173 --> 0:51:23.013 best bowl is not bothering, And yet they turned up. 0:51:23.533 --> 0:51:26.093 And I don't know how this concussion stuff works, but 0:51:26.413 --> 0:51:31.373 all of a sudden Zach Volks runs in and plays brilliantly, 0:51:33.173 --> 0:51:39.893 helped in a great part by a fabulous Test series 0:51:39.973 --> 0:51:42.173 from the keeper Blundon. 0:51:42.933 --> 0:51:45.573 Yeah, I was going to I was going to say 0:51:45.573 --> 0:51:48.653 that he was the next point because Nathan Smith won 0:51:48.773 --> 0:51:52.013 the Player of the Series award and he bowled superbly, 0:51:52.093 --> 0:51:54.053 and you know he's a new boy on the block 0:51:54.533 --> 0:51:58.373 when when you start talking Test cricket. But to me, 0:51:58.453 --> 0:52:01.973 it was between him and Blundell, and you know, to 0:52:02.053 --> 0:52:08.533 keep wickets in those conditions on variable bounce against one 0:52:08.613 --> 0:52:12.693 thirty five K takes guts, but it takes skill too, 0:52:12.733 --> 0:52:13.333 doesn't it. 0:52:13.773 --> 0:52:17.013 Oh look, I you know we touched on it before 0:52:17.653 --> 0:52:19.693 when he when he did that back in back at 0:52:19.693 --> 0:52:22.053 the base and reserved two three years ago. And then 0:52:22.093 --> 0:52:25.173 it's been somewhat mimicked by Australia because all of a 0:52:25.213 --> 0:52:28.173 sudden it brings the players back into the back onto 0:52:28.213 --> 0:52:32.413 the crease and therefore they don't get that extra hob 0:52:32.453 --> 0:52:36.013 which they love. Brook and Roote and those guys, all 0:52:36.053 --> 0:52:37.893 of a sudden they're back there and then it opens 0:52:37.893 --> 0:52:40.453 them up. But as you quite rightly point out, Brian 0:52:41.133 --> 0:52:45.573 on a variable bouncing wicket and have won thirty five clicks, 0:52:45.813 --> 0:52:48.653 I mean, Smith is no slouch. He gets it through 0:52:49.213 --> 0:52:51.533 and then of course he's doing it to folks. The 0:52:51.613 --> 0:52:54.573 keeping is keeping in again a more humble pie for 0:52:54.653 --> 0:52:57.293 me to eat, because I was thinking that perhaps, you know, 0:52:57.413 --> 0:52:59.933 the Canterbury keeper might have had a shot when we 0:52:59.933 --> 0:53:02.933 were chatting about it a few weeks ago. But hell no, 0:53:04.013 --> 0:53:08.293 Blundell has been a revelation and I really have to 0:53:08.613 --> 0:53:15.053 applaud him because he's probably probably arguable the difference in 0:53:15.133 --> 0:53:17.493 the whole series because of what he did at the 0:53:17.493 --> 0:53:21.773 contribution across all three Test matches. I think he's fantastic 0:53:21.893 --> 0:53:24.293 and I just think and it was a joy to watch, 0:53:24.493 --> 0:53:27.253 and it was really interesting when you're listening and watching 0:53:27.253 --> 0:53:31.013 on the TV how many applaudits he was getting from 0:53:31.373 --> 0:53:35.453 people like a saying ATHLETs and broad and so on. 0:53:35.773 --> 0:53:39.853 They were very effusive in their praise for Blundell, and 0:53:39.933 --> 0:53:41.693 for that matter, they were a fusive in their praise 0:53:41.733 --> 0:53:45.013 for New Zealand full stop, and somewhat disparaging about their 0:53:45.013 --> 0:53:45.493 own mob. 0:53:45.813 --> 0:53:50.573 So an interesting time, fascinating stuff, Jerry, the kind of 0:53:50.573 --> 0:53:56.013 cricket I know you love and like to embroil yourself 0:53:56.333 --> 0:54:00.413 the tactics and the way players play the game. And 0:54:00.733 --> 0:54:03.213 I'm sure you've enjoyed it, but I'm sure you also 0:54:03.333 --> 0:54:07.253 enjoy a bit of a holiday because it's hard commentating 0:54:07.293 --> 0:54:09.573 tests series that are packed together like that. The players 0:54:09.693 --> 0:54:12.173 quite have hard but you know, mentally it's tough, isn't it, 0:54:12.213 --> 0:54:14.133 And you need a bit of a break, So God 0:54:14.333 --> 0:54:15.053 have you one. 0:54:15.653 --> 0:54:20.533 Yeah, thanks Wads. I've really enjoyed the tests. Of course, 0:54:20.573 --> 0:54:23.613 it's always easier, as you know, if New Zealand come 0:54:23.613 --> 0:54:27.533 out on top, and what's bred in the bone will 0:54:27.573 --> 0:54:33.613 come out of the wicket. And so I'm delighted for 0:54:33.733 --> 0:54:35.693 the group that I was with because they were there 0:54:35.733 --> 0:54:38.373 the last and we were having breakfast together, you know. 0:54:39.453 --> 0:54:42.733 But I'm ready for a break and looking forward to 0:54:43.293 --> 0:54:46.653 to spending some time away and then I'll catch you 0:54:46.733 --> 0:54:49.533 back at home, so that'll be good fun. So look 0:54:49.573 --> 0:54:54.093 after yourself and enjoy, enjoy, and enjoy the victory. 0:54:54.413 --> 0:54:58.293 Yeah, and you enjoy a heat wave. We'll talk again 0:54:58.373 --> 0:55:00.093 in a week or. 0:55:00.013 --> 0:55:07.733 Say good words, take care of summer. 0:55:14.453 --> 0:55:17.093 For more from News Talks at b listen live on 0:55:17.173 --> 0:55:20.133 air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever 0:55:20.173 --> 0:55:22.773 you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio.