Speaker 1: The ZM Podcast Network.
Speaker 2: I didn't think I had a problem.
Speaker 3: I just thought I was able to drink more than
Speaker 3: most people and say using drugs.
Speaker 2: The destructive path that I've been.
Speaker 3: On and the things that I'd done were always coming
Speaker 3: back to haunt me in my mind.
Speaker 2: That was like the first time that someone had pointed
Speaker 2: out that I had a problem and I just looked back.
Speaker 2: I was like, jeez, am I really that bad?
Speaker 1: Hi guys, welcome back to another episode of Hope Israel
Speaker 1: the Podcast, Season three. I cannot believe that we are here,
Speaker 1: that we get to do yet another season of incredible,
Speaker 1: inspiring stories from people all around the world. It's honestly
Speaker 1: such an honor and a privilege. So thank you guys
Speaker 1: for listening. First of all, I'm so stoked that you're
Speaker 1: here and that you're here for today's episode. Now, if
Speaker 1: you're on TikTok, you would have absolutely seen this family,
Speaker 1: especially Australia New Zealand side Kat and Jonathan Clark, Deja Clark,
Speaker 1: Letitia Clark, the Clark family in general have blow and
Speaker 1: up all over our social media feeds. And I was
Speaker 1: lucky enough a few years ago to meet Kat and
Speaker 1: Dasia and Letitia and Jonathan at the TikTok Awards where
Speaker 1: Cat one Creator of the Year, I won TikTok for
Speaker 1: Good and ever since we've been able to kind of
Speaker 1: hang out and chat and kind of share stories around
Speaker 1: I guess what our lives have become like. Kat has
Speaker 1: been very open about her story with the things that
Speaker 1: she kind of struggled through, and she was on the
Speaker 1: last season of this podcast. But today I'm really really
Speaker 1: excited for you guys to hear for potentially one of
Speaker 1: the first times that he's really spoken about this Jonathan story. Jonathan,
Speaker 1: I guess, is kind of more in the background of
Speaker 1: a lot of these videos. He's the man behind the business.
Speaker 1: He kind of keeps that family going, and I've always
Speaker 1: looked at him with complete and utter awe at the
Speaker 1: way that he's been able to really keep this family together,
Speaker 1: and as someone who grew up kind of without that
Speaker 1: father figure in my life, seeing you know, a lot
Speaker 1: of people will know that he's not Letitia's biological father,
Speaker 1: but that he came in and he chose to be
Speaker 1: that father role and kind of step into a role
Speaker 1: where Letitia's biological father hadn't been, and he is a
Speaker 1: pillar of strength, and that has not come without his struggles.
Speaker 1: He has fought a very long, tough battle with addiction,
Speaker 1: which he has been so transparent and so honest about
Speaker 1: and really kind of delves into I guess the realities
Speaker 1: of what it was to be living like that, the
Speaker 1: reality of, you know, kind of mixing it of this
Speaker 1: was actually like a good time and I didn't know
Speaker 1: at the time that I was doing anything wrong. What
Speaker 1: was his turning point? What was it that made him
Speaker 1: decide to go sober? Changes life around, and I guess
Speaker 1: become the person that he is today. So Jonathan's story
Speaker 1: is coming up right after this. Jonathan, Welcome to Hopah's
Speaker 1: All the podcast. First of all, how are you doing.
Speaker 2: I'm doing well. Thank you for having me, of.
Speaker 1: Course, I'm really excited to have you. I remember sitting
Speaker 1: down with you Kat and Daisia while you guys were
Speaker 1: in New Zealand. We had brunch somewhere and I think
Speaker 1: it was Koee and beginning to hear like the tiniest
Speaker 1: little snippet of your story and being like, I haven't
Speaker 1: heard this before, Like I think you've You've talked about
Speaker 1: it so briefly online and just hearing kind of the
Speaker 1: very brief version that I heard, and seeing the person
Speaker 1: that you are now and the father that you are,
Speaker 1: and just the way that you and your family are
Speaker 1: absolutely bossing the businesses, and obviously your whole family just
Speaker 1: kind of rocketed to this crazy level of fame. But
Speaker 1: your story is one that I know, especially as a man,
Speaker 1: is now it's so hopeful, and I think it's so
Speaker 1: incredible to see this change, and so I'm so glad
Speaker 1: that we could have this conversation and to have you
Speaker 1: sharing this. So I'd love to literally go all the
Speaker 1: way back to the beginning. What was your childhood like?
Speaker 3: Ooh, so childhood was I always just thought my childhood
Speaker 3: was just a normal, normal childhood. Grew up in a
Speaker 3: immigrant family, so I was born in South Africa. My
Speaker 3: parents obviously were born there as well. We came here
Speaker 3: in the early eighties. I was two years old, and yeah,
Speaker 3: just grew up in a small, underprivileged sort of upbringing.
Speaker 3: My parents were working class, worked twelve forteen hours a day,
Speaker 3: and yeah, they worked hard.
Speaker 2: To send me to a private Catholic school and grew
Speaker 2: up in that sort of environment.
Speaker 3: And I had a younger brother who was who was
Speaker 3: three years younger than me, So it was just us
Speaker 3: two pretty much, and my parents went around a lot.
Speaker 3: They were working a lot, so we learned to fend
Speaker 3: for ourselves pretty early. So yeah, that was that's basically
Speaker 3: my childhood were.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love it, and I think obviously you've there's been.
Speaker 1: I think it was a video I actually saw about
Speaker 1: Christmas time that you were doing it. It may have
Speaker 1: been like two years ago, I think where you were
Speaker 1: saying how that used to be such a big time
Speaker 1: for you and trying to say no. In regards to
Speaker 1: your your addiction story, I would love to know where
Speaker 1: where did that start for you? Like where did it
Speaker 1: go from? Was it ever like something that was socially
Speaker 1: and then it just turned into addiction? Do you have
Speaker 1: like a key moment as to where that started.
Speaker 2: I always think so.
Speaker 3: I always think I had that tendency for addiction, And
Speaker 3: if I think back to my early times of starting
Speaker 3: to use alcohol and things like that, I always I
Speaker 3: think that it was always there where it sort of
Speaker 3: turned was where it became a part of my time
Speaker 3: my life, where it was where it turned tumultuous. But
Speaker 3: I always think that I often always think that it
Speaker 3: was there from the from the very beginning. I started
Speaker 3: drinking at a very early age. My mother is an alcoholic,
Speaker 3: her sister is an alcoholic. My grandfather is an alcoholic.
Speaker 3: So my grandfather and my mom's sister both died of alcoholism.
Speaker 3: My mother's had a stroke, and I had a lot
Speaker 3: of difficulties around that. I would say my mom's marriage.
Speaker 2: Broke up because of her alcohol. Alcoholism and alcohol sort.
Speaker 3: Of during my younger years, and family life was just
Speaker 3: always a normal thing, and my parents drank a lot.
Speaker 2: They drank often.
Speaker 3: It was just part of the part of the landscape.
Speaker 3: So for me, drinking was just a normal thing that
Speaker 3: I did, and then that sort of graduated to other
Speaker 3: illicit substances later on. So I went into smoking cannabis, marijuana, weed,
Speaker 3: whatever you want to call it, very early, I would say,
Speaker 3: in my late teenage years, see sixteen, fifteen, sixteen, and
Speaker 3: then that became a daily thing. From about seventeen eighteen
Speaker 3: onwards until my early thirties, it would have been pretty
Speaker 3: much almost every day, and then.
Speaker 2: That grade you graduated from there into you know, okain.
Speaker 3: I holy of other things that pretty much I had.
Speaker 3: I had the I had the attitude that I would
Speaker 3: try anything as long as I.
Speaker 2: Didn't have to inject it.
Speaker 3: And for me, it was just a normal thing, just
Speaker 3: having fun and doing what I wanted to do. And
Speaker 3: I never really saw it as a problem or that
Speaker 3: it was something that was affecting my life until it
Speaker 3: Until you know, you reach that sort of precipice where
Speaker 3: everything's falling apart and the rock bottom as most people
Speaker 3: call it.
Speaker 1: What do you think you were if you can remember
Speaker 1: like your behavior was like during that time, Like what
Speaker 1: kind of person were you to be around?
Speaker 3: So I think it's really a yin and yang.
Speaker 2: So like one part of.
Speaker 3: You is the normal, the part of you that's just
Speaker 3: who you are, like loving, caring, nurturing, empathetic and really
Speaker 3: wanting to excel in life and take opportunities and do
Speaker 3: the most that you can, what I think is inherent
Speaker 3: in most human beings, just.
Speaker 2: Wanting to thrive and survive and do well.
Speaker 3: But then on the other hand is the dark side
Speaker 3: where and a lot of the time it's the side
Speaker 3: that you hide from from everyone, and it's the selfish
Speaker 3: ego driven just really.
Speaker 2: Wanting to get what you need to get to get
Speaker 2: your fixed or.
Speaker 3: To get you know, the fun or whatever you want
Speaker 3: to call it, and at the same time trying to
Speaker 3: still be that caring, loving, nurturing human being that wants
Speaker 3: to strive and survive and do well and succeed in
Speaker 3: life at the same time.
Speaker 2: So, yeah, I think if you knew me, you.
Speaker 3: Would you would you would think, you know, I'm a
Speaker 3: I'm a.
Speaker 2: Normal person, just loving life, doing what I can do
Speaker 2: my best.
Speaker 3: But then if you know, if you went out with me,
Speaker 3: you saw me, you know, you're one of those people
Speaker 3: that hung around with me who did the other things, you.
Speaker 2: Would see that I had that other side in.
Speaker 3: Me as well. And I could be violent, I could
Speaker 3: be angry, I could be selfish, I could be Yeah,
Speaker 3: anything you wanted under the sun, anything you can think of.
Speaker 3: I was.
Speaker 2: I could be that at the same time.
Speaker 3: So it's I think I'm part of a couple of fellowships.
Speaker 2: And I think we call it the masks.
Speaker 3: We wear many masks depending on which environment we're in,
Speaker 3: and we're social chameleons. We just adapt to the situation
Speaker 3: that we're in there. If we're in if we're around
Speaker 3: those people that we need to be a certain person
Speaker 3: who can become that person pretty quickly and survive in
Speaker 3: that environment and just not only survive, but excel in
Speaker 3: the bad things and also the good things.
Speaker 1: Do you think there's like a moment that you can
Speaker 1: remember where it switched from like, oh, this is just
Speaker 1: something that I'm doing, like drinking socially or whatever it
Speaker 1: may be, to this is a problem. Was there a
Speaker 1: moment that they sweached or was it kind of always
Speaker 1: from the start you knew that it was a problem.
Speaker 3: I didn't know.
Speaker 2: I didn't think I had a problem. I just thought
Speaker 2: that I.
Speaker 3: Was going to continue living my life like this and
Speaker 3: succeed in the best way that I knew. And you know,
Speaker 3: drinking was just normal to me. I just I was
Speaker 3: able to drink. I just thought I was able to
Speaker 3: drink more than most people. I liked to drink more
Speaker 3: than most people. And same with same with using using drugs.
Speaker 3: I was I was able to consume a lot and
Speaker 3: just function and do my stuff. The catalyst for me
Speaker 3: was I went through maybe a ten year period where
Speaker 3: I thought I had depression, And when I think look
Speaker 3: back at it, I probably did have depression, but it
Speaker 3: was introduced by a lot of other things in my life,
Speaker 3: and I went to different counselors, shrink psychologists, anything you
Speaker 3: can think of under the sun, when on many different
Speaker 3: treatment plans and all the rest of it.
Speaker 2: And then one day I went to a psychiatrist.
Speaker 3: So I wanted to be medicated for the depression that
Speaker 3: I did I had, and I thought, the only way
Speaker 3: to do this is to go see a psychiatrist subste
Speaker 3: because they can prescribe medicine. And I sat down with
Speaker 3: him and we went through the evaluation, and he asked
Speaker 3: you the normal questions, how often do you drink, do.
Speaker 2: You use drugs, how often do you use them, etc.
Speaker 2: Et cetera.
Speaker 3: And by this point I was getting to a point
Speaker 3: of my life where things were really started to fall apart.
Speaker 3: And I'd gone to counselors and those types of people
Speaker 3: before psychologists, and I would try and just tell them
Speaker 3: what I thought they wanted to hear or what would
Speaker 3: get me the help that I needed, and I wouldn't really.
Speaker 2: Tell them the whole story.
Speaker 3: And this time I thought, well, up until now, it
Speaker 3: hasn't worked and I haven't got the help that I needed.
Speaker 3: I'm just going to tell this guy, like playing symbol,
Speaker 3: exactly how it is and he was really nice, like
Speaker 3: he gave that aura of accepting and he had seen
Speaker 3: it all, just just lay it all out for me.
Speaker 3: So I laid it all on the table. And the
Speaker 3: first thing he says said, before I treat you, have
Speaker 3: you ever thought of going into a rehab or detoxing?
Speaker 3: And that really just blew me away. That was like
Speaker 3: the first time that someone had said to me that,
Speaker 3: Like I pointed out that I had a problem, and
Speaker 3: I just thought back, I was like, geez am I
Speaker 3: really that bad?
Speaker 2: Do I really need to go?
Speaker 3: Because at that point I was thought, there's no way
Speaker 3: I need to go to a rehab or a detox
Speaker 3: or anything like that.
Speaker 2: And yeah, when he said that, that was definitely the
Speaker 2: catalyst for me.
Speaker 3: From that day on, I researched and I went to
Speaker 3: try and get into a rehab and due to detox
Speaker 3: because I wanted to get the help that I needed
Speaker 3: because my marriage is falling apart, my life is sort
Speaker 3: of falling apart, and I just wanted to get the
Speaker 3: help that I needed.
Speaker 2: That was definitely because for me, once you.
Speaker 3: Said that, it was like a briek hitting in the face.
Speaker 3: It was like, holy shit, do I really have a problem.
Speaker 1: Wow, it's crazy that it can go for so long.
Speaker 1: And I've talked to a couple of people on this
Speaker 1: podcast now that have battle with addiction and, like you said,
Speaker 1: just kind of believing that you don't have a problem,
Speaker 1: like this is just the way that you're living life.
Speaker 1: And I think it's really interesting that you talk about
Speaker 1: the link with that to depression because a lot of
Speaker 1: the stuff that I see in the system here in
Speaker 1: New Zealand, and I'm pretty sure it's a reflected kind
Speaker 1: of globally, is that a lot of the times they
Speaker 1: don't treat both. So if you've got mental like if
Speaker 1: you're struggling with mental illness and then you have addiction,
Speaker 1: they'll choose one to treat, but often they do coincide.
Speaker 1: And I think especially like did you find or do
Speaker 1: you think that the drug part for you was just
Speaker 1: having fun or do you think there was part of
Speaker 1: it that was trying to numb anything else that you
Speaker 1: were feeling, or like what do you think that was
Speaker 1: for you?
Speaker 3: So when I was actually in my addiction, I didn't
Speaker 3: think that it was I thought it was just fun.
Speaker 3: It was just I knew that I knew that I
Speaker 3: was at a point where I needed certain things to
Speaker 3: function the way that I do.
Speaker 2: I needed to because.
Speaker 3: When I didn't have them for a certain period of time,
Speaker 3: I turned into a different person and nasty, selfish, so seeking,
Speaker 3: bigotistical type person.
Speaker 2: And yeah, for me, I just thought that was normal.
Speaker 3: But when I think back, and once I've gone through,
Speaker 3: you know, different treatments I've I was trying to quieten
Speaker 3: the voices in my head. So I would have a
Speaker 3: really overactive head and I would lay in bed and
Speaker 3: just think and really destroy my own self esteem with
Speaker 3: my own thoughts, just like how much of a piece
Speaker 3: of shit are you?
Speaker 2: How could you have done that? What you know and
Speaker 2: all that.
Speaker 3: You know, what's going to happen, if this happens, and
Speaker 3: all these sorts of thoughts and voices that go inside
Speaker 3: your head. And for me, the only way to quieten
Speaker 3: those was to to you and to get out of
Speaker 3: that sort of state. So I would need to use
Speaker 3: to get to sleep, I would need to use to
Speaker 3: go out party and have fun. I would often need
Speaker 3: to use to go to work. All those sorts of
Speaker 3: things that got to that point where it was those things,
Speaker 3: but a lot of it. But I think when I
Speaker 3: think back. It was it was the destructive path that
Speaker 3: I'd been on, and the things that I'd done were
Speaker 3: always coming back to haunt me in my mind, and
Speaker 3: I didn't want to have to deal with them face on.
Speaker 3: I wanted to just master them and get those thoughts
Speaker 3: out of my head so that I could get to sleep.
Speaker 2: And get on with my day the next day. Does
Speaker 2: that make sense?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it does. How long between that psychiatrists appointment
Speaker 1: that you were talking about and then your decision to
Speaker 1: go sober? What was the time frame between.
Speaker 3: There so the next Like, as soon as I got
Speaker 3: home that day that week, I had a chat to
Speaker 3: my wife to cat and I think she was sort
Speaker 3: of relieved.
Speaker 2: That I'd come to that realization.
Speaker 3: And it was pretty much straight away I was ringing
Speaker 3: rehab Steve toxes around the Gold Coast trying to get admitted.
Speaker 2: We weren't in.
Speaker 3: A financial position where I could afford to go to one.
Speaker 3: That was that I had to pay a lot because
Speaker 3: a lot of them are quite expensive, and there are
Speaker 3: a few around the Gold Coast that will take you
Speaker 3: in depending on your depending on how sick you are
Speaker 3: and their situation and if they've got any free beds
Speaker 3: or available space and at that so I did pretty
Speaker 3: much went into that straight away. I tried to get
Speaker 3: into one like immediately.
Speaker 1: Wow. And that process for you going into rehab, what
Speaker 1: was that experience like, because that would have been was
Speaker 1: it kind of cold turkey for you to go from?
Speaker 2: Yeah, well I didn't actually get into one.
Speaker 3: So at the time there was none available, and on
Speaker 3: the Gold Coast there was one.
Speaker 2: They said there might be a bedcoming available in like
Speaker 2: a month's time or a few weeks time.
Speaker 3: And I said, Okay, I don't want to wait that long.
Speaker 3: I want to because for me, waiting I would have
Speaker 3: to use to get to that point of going in.
Speaker 2: That's in my mind, that's what it was.
Speaker 3: And it was like, I'm in the headspace now where
Speaker 3: I want to stop and I want to get help
Speaker 3: right away. So I don't want to wait, and we
Speaker 3: couldn't afford to do it, so what we just decided
Speaker 3: to do it at home. So I just took some
Speaker 3: time off work and just went through that pull tap
Speaker 3: detox period at home and I had a friend, met
Speaker 3: a friend And when I think about it, was like
Speaker 3: divine sort of intervention or however you want to look
Speaker 3: at it. I've met a friend about say, six to
Speaker 3: twelve months before that time, and we'd been out drinking
Speaker 3: and partying, and he wasn't drinking, he wasn't doing any.
Speaker 2: Sorts of that sort of stuff.
Speaker 3: But he was with us and we were just you know,
Speaker 3: being crazy, partying, drinking, doing whatever we did when we
Speaker 3: went out, and he wasn't doing any of that. But
Speaker 3: he was a great time with us, and I exchanged
Speaker 3: and others with him, and we became friends.
Speaker 2: And he sort of alluded.
Speaker 3: To the fact that he was that he'd done that before,
Speaker 3: but he doesn't do it anymore, and all that sorts
Speaker 3: of stuff. And I believe in passing. You mentioned like,
Speaker 3: you know, if you ever want to talk or you
Speaker 3: ever want any advice on what I do or how
Speaker 3: I did it, let me know. And I didn't think
Speaker 3: anything of it, left it. But then when I couldn't
Speaker 3: get into a rehab, I rang him up and I said,
Speaker 3: he remember when I when we spoke that time, I said,
Speaker 3: I think I'm ready to do what I need to do.
Speaker 2: What do you suggest?
Speaker 3: Do you have any do you have any advice to me? Basically,
Speaker 3: and he just took me under. You said meet me
Speaker 3: at this place tomorrow and will we can get started,
Speaker 3: So that.
Speaker 1: The fact that you were able to do that without
Speaker 1: going to rehab is phenomenal and also shows that lack
Speaker 1: of support that was around, the availability that was around
Speaker 1: for you to not be able to go and when
Speaker 1: you finally went, I need help and I can't do
Speaker 1: it like this anymore. I'm so thankful that you had
Speaker 1: that friend. And I think that really shows like just
Speaker 1: the impact and the power of one person and their
Speaker 1: ability to help kind of change the direction of your life.
Speaker 1: And obviously you have to be in the position to
Speaker 1: be ready to do that, and you were, and I
Speaker 1: would love to know and kind of all of this.
Speaker 1: How old were you when you met Kat?
Speaker 3: I was, jeez, two thousand and five, so I was
Speaker 3: twenty three.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, how did you guys meet just.
Speaker 2: Turn twenty three? At a pub?
Speaker 3: It was R and B Night And we used to
Speaker 3: go to this pub before we went out to the city,
Speaker 3: usually to go clubbing for like pre drinks, and there
Speaker 3: was R and B night and we just used to
Speaker 3: just go there, have you know, five or six drinks,
Speaker 3: get warmed up, and then catch a cab into town
Speaker 3: because Obviously, clubs didn't get really good until late late
Speaker 3: that night. So yeah, Kat was there that night, and yeah,
Speaker 3: I was having this back when you could smoke in
Speaker 3: the pub.
Speaker 2: Both we both.
Speaker 3: Used to smoke, and I was having a cigarette and
Speaker 3: I saw her from across the room and she came,
Speaker 3: like walked all the way over and asked me for
Speaker 3: a lighter. And yeah, I saw a walk past like
Speaker 3: five other people who were smoking, and I was like, well,
Speaker 3: she could have asked any one of those people for
Speaker 3: a lighter, so she.
Speaker 2: Must like me.
Speaker 3: And she grabbed I lit her cigarette, and then before
Speaker 3: she left, she said, if you want to dance, come
Speaker 3: and see me. So that was it.
Speaker 1: Well that's really cute. If you want to dance, come
Speaker 1: and see me. Ah yeah please. And obviously you guys
Speaker 1: then you started data. How long after that did you
Speaker 1: start seeing each other?
Speaker 3: Pretty much straight away, So I didn't go out clubbing
Speaker 3: that night. The rest of my friends went, and I
Speaker 3: stayed at the pub and danced with Kat and got
Speaker 3: to know where. I got a number, got to know
Speaker 3: her friends who she was there with, and yeah, I
Speaker 3: think the next day I texted her and yeah, we went.
Speaker 2: Out for a date after that.
Speaker 3: Then there was another date where she said she had
Speaker 3: to tell me something and that's when she told me
Speaker 3: that she had Letitia.
Speaker 2: And yeah, we've we moved in like with.
Speaker 3: Each other about three months after that and we haven't
Speaker 3: been separated since.
Speaker 1: Dang three months. And you guys, how many years have
Speaker 1: been now since you've been together?
Speaker 2: Seventeen? No, so nineteen together, was seventeen married?
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, that's that's a really cute story. It
Speaker 1: kind of feels like it was like a little bit
Speaker 1: of a love at first sight situation. Do you feel
Speaker 1: like that's what it was?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: It was.
Speaker 1: Yeah. What was your response when you found out that
Speaker 1: she had a kid?
Speaker 3: I was actually relieved because I thought she was going
Speaker 3: to tell me something really bad, like she couldn't be
Speaker 3: with me because she was married, or she had a
Speaker 3: boyfriend or.
Speaker 2: I don't know that.
Speaker 3: There was all the million things I were going to
Speaker 3: through my mind, but none of them were that she's
Speaker 3: got a child. And to be honest, I'd always when
Speaker 3: I was a kid, I always wanted to be a dad.
Speaker 3: And when she said that, I was like, my response,
Speaker 3: I was like, Oh, is that is that all coool?
Speaker 2: And I was like I was actually really happy that
Speaker 2: she had.
Speaker 3: A child and met Tisha and fell in love with
Speaker 3: her and sort of became an instant father, which was
Speaker 3: pretty cool.
Speaker 1: How what was Latitia when you meet her?
Speaker 2: Two?
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, oh baby. One of the things that
Speaker 1: I've really really loved about, you know, slowly getting to
Speaker 1: know your family. And I think the first time I
Speaker 1: meet you guys was the Tech Talk Awards. However, it
Speaker 1: was actually on Dage's birthday. I think it was the
Speaker 1: first time I meet you, and I'd been with Kat
Speaker 1: and Latitia the day before. I think it was her
Speaker 1: birthday at the awards.
Speaker 3: Two years ago.
Speaker 1: I think it was, yeah, And I just remember like
Speaker 1: watching you guys as a family now and seeing specifically
Speaker 1: your relationship with Letitia. It's just so it's so incredible
Speaker 1: because like, statistically here, I don't know what the stats
Speaker 1: are in Australia, but in New Zealand there's two hundred
Speaker 1: and seventy thousand families living in a fatherless home. And
Speaker 1: I think there's just so much hurt and so much
Speaker 1: pain for these kids that are growing up in these situations,
Speaker 1: and that kind of abandonment that can come up in
Speaker 1: those feelings of like there's something wrong with me and
Speaker 1: that's why they left, and to see you step into
Speaker 1: this role and also like kind of break some of
Speaker 1: the bad stigmas that are in around like step dads.
Speaker 1: Obviously you are who dad now, but like you know,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of there's some negative stigmas that can
Speaker 1: come with that. But every time that I see you,
Speaker 1: guys are just I'm so happy to see that you're
Speaker 1: such a role model and evidence as well that one
Speaker 1: men can be good but too how much having a
Speaker 1: father figure to step in can also kind of help
Speaker 1: with pain that your own met father may have caused.
Speaker 1: And so it's been really really cool to see that.
Speaker 1: And obviously then a few years later you had another child.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was five years after I met Kat. We
Speaker 3: had Yeah, five years after we met had Dasia. So yeah,
Speaker 3: Kat actually didn't want any more kids when I met her,
Speaker 3: and I was actually I had come to a point
Speaker 3: where I was content with that, because there was I
Speaker 3: wasn't I try to convince her that, you know, I
Speaker 3: wanted to have another child. I really wanted a son.
Speaker 3: And yeah, there was a sort of a catalyst that's
Speaker 3: another story, and what sort of changed cat's mind to
Speaker 3: have Desiah and then yeah, we ended up having Desia
Speaker 3: five years later.
Speaker 1: So during this time, if I've got my maths correct,
Speaker 1: is this when you were you were still struggling with
Speaker 1: your addiction At that time, I was.
Speaker 3: But like you call it, a functioning addict, like I
Speaker 3: was still okay, I wasn't. It wasn't destroying my life
Speaker 3: and it wasn't detrimental because I think at that time
Speaker 3: I was still young and I was still you know,
Speaker 3: making having small successes and small wings in my life
Speaker 3: that there wasn't There wasn't enough bad things happening for
Speaker 3: me to take a step back and go, hey, they
Speaker 3: made an issue here. For me, I was just having
Speaker 3: fun and I like to have a bit more fun
Speaker 3: than most people, and that that was the end of
Speaker 3: it for me.
Speaker 1: Well, your kids are part of the reason that you
Speaker 1: wanted to get sober.
Speaker 2: It probably sounds really selfish, but they weren't.
Speaker 3: And it really has to be for any addict to
Speaker 3: want to stop, it really has to be a selfish thing.
Speaker 3: It really has to be one hundred percent for them,
Speaker 3: because if it was for them, I would have done
Speaker 3: it a long time before ictually did it. And you know,
Speaker 3: we will always say that you have to be selfish
Speaker 3: to be selfless, like I had to put myself first,
Speaker 3: And yeah, it sounds bad, but it wasn't. They weren't
Speaker 3: the reason that I wanted to stop because, like I said,
Speaker 3: I didn't think that I had an issue, and when
Speaker 3: it came down to everything falling a part of my
Speaker 3: life that again, they weren't the catalyst. So it as
Speaker 3: bad as it was. That that's just how bad addiction is.
Speaker 3: It's like you don't really give it. You don't really
Speaker 3: give a crap about what you're doing to other people's lives,
Speaker 3: and they can push you and talk to you and
Speaker 3: screaming you and want you to do whatever they want
Speaker 3: you to do to try and stop and change your
Speaker 3: life around. But until you come to the realization yourself
Speaker 3: and want to actually change yourself because of you and
Speaker 3: the turmoil that's going on with inside yourself, then there's
Speaker 3: no change that could be made.
Speaker 1: Do you think that your experiences have impacted the way
Speaker 1: that your parent now, Like do you feel you're a
Speaker 1: lot more aware of like that path being like something
Speaker 1: that you're trying to steal your kids away from, or
Speaker 1: like does it impact at all your parenting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely. So after I got clean and sober.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it going through that process, it really opened my
Speaker 3: eyes to watch out for the telltale signs and what
Speaker 3: and just to be aware of when a certain person
Speaker 3: is going down that path. And it's made me aware
Speaker 3: of not just in my parenting, but just in life
Speaker 3: in general. I can see, I can see it within
Speaker 3: certain people, but I don't obviously know because of what
Speaker 3: I went through, not on how to approach that with
Speaker 3: certain people. I've Yeah, it's it's made me just more
Speaker 3: aware on what to look out for in my kids.
Speaker 3: And it's sort of I've always had the the opinion
Speaker 3: not to try and hide the greediness of that sort
Speaker 3: of stuff with your kids, and not to try and
Speaker 3: sugarcoat or shield them too much away from drugs and
Speaker 3: alcohol and white people use them and why it's such
Speaker 3: an acceptable part of society and why people go down
Speaker 3: that path. So I've always been really open, like I've
Speaker 3: always said to my kids that you know, drugs and alcohol,
Speaker 3: it feels great, So that's why people that's why people
Speaker 3: start to do it. They don't if it felt like crap,
Speaker 3: people wouldn't get into get into addiction. They wouldn't keep using,
Speaker 3: they wouldn't be buying alcohol every.
Speaker 2: Every weekend, and they wouldn't sell it in the shops.
Speaker 3: It feels great in the beginning, and I've said that
Speaker 3: to them because what I didn't want and what sort
Speaker 3: of happened to me is that I was always told you,
Speaker 3: this is bad, that's bad, don't do this, don't do that,
Speaker 3: whether it came to drug, sex, alcohol, any sort of
Speaker 3: taboo type subjects. And then when I inevitably ended up
Speaker 3: trying these things, I was like, well, that's not right,
Speaker 3: this is great. What are they talking about?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 2: And then you feel betrayed and you feel like, oh,
Speaker 2: what do they You know?
Speaker 3: This is billy, Like they don't know what they're talking about,
Speaker 3: and then you just stop listening to those people in
Speaker 3: your life.
Speaker 2: So I didn't want to. I didn't want that to
Speaker 2: happen to my kids.
Speaker 3: You don't want to tell them that this is bad
Speaker 3: and that's going to feel like crap, and et cetera,
Speaker 3: et cetera. I just wanted to be open and honest
Speaker 3: and say, hey, if you end up trying this, you're
Speaker 3: going to you're probably going to love it. You're probably
Speaker 3: going to enjoy it, but this is what can happen,
Speaker 3: and this is what that can lead to, et cetera,
Speaker 3: et cetera, Because I don't think there's a way you
Speaker 3: can really ultimately stop anyone from doing anything, because if
Speaker 3: someone really wants to do something, or they get into
Speaker 3: a situation where they're going to try something, then they're
Speaker 3: going to give it a go. So I think giving
Speaker 3: them an honest opinion on what that reaction is going
Speaker 3: to be like, so then when they do try they're like, oh,
Speaker 3: I feel great.
Speaker 2: This is what dad said. He said, it's going to
Speaker 2: feel great.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I really like that you're having those conversations so honestly,
Speaker 1: because I feel like a lot of the times parents
Speaker 1: are so afraid to have those conversations because they think
Speaker 1: they're going to plant the idea. But like you said,
Speaker 1: like they're going to grow up and eventually they're going
Speaker 1: to probably try that things. And so the fact that
Speaker 1: you've had that honest conversation is really great. And obviously
Speaker 1: your lives kind of blew up, like everything exploded for
Speaker 1: your family with social media and kind of suddenly all
Speaker 1: these eyes were on you or on your family. How
Speaker 1: did how how did you guys manage that as as
Speaker 1: it started to really kind of kick off for you
Speaker 1: because obviously you went from being kind of this normal
Speaker 1: family to do all these eyeballs and now on you
Speaker 1: all the time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I get this.
Speaker 3: I get asked this a little bit, and I really
Speaker 3: I don't know how we manage it. I think I
Speaker 3: think by having the experiences that we've had throughout our
Speaker 3: life and having the turmoil and having been in the
Speaker 3: depths of really tough situations in our lives and coming
Speaker 3: through them.
Speaker 2: You know, we've had a.
Speaker 3: Lot of judgment and a lot of people, you know,
Speaker 3: look at look at us when we were young and
Speaker 3: think that we were stupid and we did know what
Speaker 3: we were doing, and we've always had to stick together
Speaker 3: and just.
Speaker 2: Go and move forward.
Speaker 3: Anyway. Cat and I've always had a similar sort of
Speaker 3: thrife for success, but really wanted to be successful in
Speaker 3: our lives and really wanted to be wealthy and build
Speaker 3: wealth for our family and really have a successful life
Speaker 3: and show our kids a life that we were never
Speaker 3: able to have. So, you know, having a lot of judgment,
Speaker 3: you know, we would you know, Kat was a single month.
Speaker 3: She had a lot of judgment before I ever met her,
Speaker 3: and she overcame a lot of that sort of stuff,
Speaker 3: get an abusive, an abusive relationship. You know, I left
Speaker 3: home when I was sixteen, seventeen years old. You know
Speaker 3: I was doing things that you know, people were looking
Speaker 3: at me and saying, you know, you're never going around
Speaker 3: to anything. You know, you're doing the wrong things, et cetera.
Speaker 3: We got married when we were in our early twenties.
Speaker 3: Everyone told us, you know, it's not going to last.
Speaker 3: You know, we've went through so many different stages. We
Speaker 3: started a business when we were in our mid twenties.
Speaker 3: You quit my job, started a business. You know, Kat
Speaker 3: came home from work and was working her own businesses
Speaker 3: and things like that, and people are telling us financially security,
Speaker 3: you should be doing this, you should be doing that. So
Speaker 3: we've been through a lot of that sort of judgment
Speaker 3: and people looking at us thinking that we're crazy if
Speaker 3: we don't know what we're doing. So I think that's
Speaker 3: built a bit of a strong foundation for coming into
Speaker 3: a bit of a linelight phase of our life now
Speaker 3: where those sort of things don't phase us, and we've
Speaker 3: got a lot of morals and an outlook on life
Speaker 3: that we don't, it's sort of it doesn't penetrate. Does
Speaker 3: that make sense?
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I also think that you can see that
Speaker 1: just through your family unit as well, and how strong
Speaker 1: you guys are like that when things are heading you're
Speaker 1: just all in it together, which I think doesn't often happen.
Speaker 1: When people kind of blow up, it might just be
Speaker 1: them individually and not their whole family. And so to
Speaker 1: see you guys kind of be so tight and how
Speaker 1: all these life experiences, I think if you hadn't had those,
Speaker 1: all of that hate and all of the other stuff,
Speaker 1: Like I know, for me, I would just sit there
Speaker 1: and bare my eyes out all the time if I
Speaker 1: hadn't had the life experiences that I'd have. So, you know,
Speaker 1: it feels like it kind of set us up for
Speaker 1: having people critique everything that you do. And obviously, you
Speaker 1: guys then win in and launched your business Collade, which
Speaker 1: congratulations it's been I see it everywhere all over my
Speaker 1: for you page all the time, and it's been so
Speaker 1: cool to see the success of that and of your
Speaker 1: family in general. And I would I would love to
Speaker 1: know what advice that you would have for I'm going
Speaker 1: to go two different groups of people. Firstly, for people
Speaker 1: that are in the middle of addiction and are struggling
Speaker 1: with that, what would you say to them.
Speaker 3: It's hard because people that are in the middle of
Speaker 3: the middle of addiction probably unaware that they haven't is
Speaker 3: have a problem. Well, what I would say is that
Speaker 3: when you do get to a point where you do well,
Speaker 3: you do think that you have an issue, seize that
Speaker 3: moment and don't let it pass and try and get
Speaker 3: help as soon as you can. Try and find someone
Speaker 3: who has done what you want to do. Don't go
Speaker 3: to someone who who has lived a sheltered, proper life
Speaker 3: and hasn't experienced that. I felt the most help that
Speaker 3: I got was when I went into the rooms of
Speaker 3: the fellowships and sat next to people who have been
Speaker 3: through exactly what I've been through, have felt the things
Speaker 3: that I've felt, have had the desires and the wants,
Speaker 3: and all those in a turmoil that I've that I
Speaker 3: went through, and then have beat their addiction and now
Speaker 3: I'm living in complete sobriety and having a successful life
Speaker 3: with all the blessed things that come with that. Once
Speaker 3: I sat in those rooms and listened to those people
Speaker 3: and spotted all the similarities that I had with them,
Speaker 3: then I was open to getting the help that I needed.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I would say, just to seek out the
Speaker 3: fellowships that respond to whatever addiction that you're in, and
Speaker 3: just do the work getting there, and do the work.
Speaker 3: Look for the similarities. Don't sit in those rooms and
Speaker 3: look forward the differences. Don't listen to their stories and go, oh, well,
Speaker 3: I never did that, I never injected that drug, or
Speaker 3: I never did that to my parents or etc. Listen
Speaker 3: to the similarities and when they tell their stories and go, hey,
Speaker 3: that sounds a little bit of what I was going
Speaker 3: through or I've done that or I s felt like that,
Speaker 3: and grab onto those similarities and then just do the work.
Speaker 3: Do exactly what they have done to get where they
Speaker 3: have because it's a system and it works, and you
Speaker 3: can have an amazing life if you can get through
Speaker 3: that and get through the work.
Speaker 1: And you're obviously your evidence of that and your life
Speaker 1: is evidence of that, which is why I'm so thankful
Speaker 1: that you're willing to tell the story, because I think
Speaker 1: you just stand as proof that if you can have
Speaker 1: those conversations and you can get to that point of
Speaker 1: accepting I need to get help that things can change.
Speaker 1: And the second group of people that would love for
Speaker 1: you to speak to is people that have loved ones
Speaker 1: that are struggling with addiction and they just don't know
Speaker 1: what to do. They don't know what to say, they
Speaker 1: don't know what would you say to them.
Speaker 2: That's a really tough one because I still struggle with
Speaker 2: that myself, even though I've been through it myself.
Speaker 3: It's probably one of the hardest things that that you
Speaker 3: have to deal with. So I would say to really
Speaker 3: protect yourself because you can't do anything. Nothing, nothing you say,
Speaker 3: is going to make that person change. All you can
Speaker 3: do is be in their life as much as you
Speaker 3: can to the point that it's not going to affect
Speaker 3: your family and your well being. But then just put
Speaker 3: up those boundaries and really look after yourself first, like
Speaker 3: be selfish in that situation and don't keep going back
Speaker 3: to get beaten down, because that person needs to make
Speaker 3: the decision and to get to help themselves. No matter
Speaker 3: what you say, and no matter what you do, it's
Speaker 3: not gonna it's not going to help them. And then
Speaker 3: the second thing was just to maybe just to keep
Speaker 3: make sure that they know that when they are ready
Speaker 3: or when they do come to the point that they
Speaker 3: need help, that they can come to you and rely
Speaker 3: on you to help them.
Speaker 2: Get the help. That's probably all you can do.
Speaker 3: It it's pretty tough to have I loved one in
Speaker 3: that situation. And they are also fellowships that actually help
Speaker 3: people who are children, spouses, friends of people in addiction.
Speaker 3: So they have a specific program to help you deal
Speaker 3: with that situation. Because it sounds easy to stay just
Speaker 3: put up a barrier because you know, and don't let
Speaker 3: them into your life or just protect yourself. But some
Speaker 3: people are in a situation where that that's just not possible.
Speaker 3: They have to be in the house, they have to
Speaker 3: be in the marriage, or they have to be in
Speaker 3: the country, or you know, there's so many different situations
Speaker 3: where they just can't get out of that situation. So
Speaker 3: there are fellowships that deal with those specific situations, and
Speaker 3: I'd just say this, go and go to those people.
Speaker 3: Go to those fellowships, and just the same as any
Speaker 3: other addiction fellowship, there's work to do in those because
Speaker 3: it's tough. So if you really wanted to get the help,
Speaker 3: just get in there, get the work done, and you
Speaker 3: can have an amazing life as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's thank you for saying that. I
Speaker 1: think it's really important for people to hear. And I
Speaker 1: mean myself, I've got a lot of my very close
Speaker 1: loved ones are struggling with addiction and have struggled with addiction,
Speaker 1: and I think it's really hard to step outside of
Speaker 1: like a superhero complex. To put it in a simple
Speaker 1: term of going like I have to be the one
Speaker 1: to save them. I have to like and you can't.
Speaker 1: And I think everything that you've said and that really
Speaker 1: sums it up of like, it wasn't anything else externally
Speaker 1: or any other people that made you make that decision
Speaker 1: to go and get so, but that had to come
Speaker 1: from you. And I think that's really helpful for people
Speaker 1: to know that they like their job is to be there,
Speaker 1: to love them, to point them in the right direction
Speaker 1: as much as their abilities allow them to, but that
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, that decision is with
Speaker 1: that person. And just to close out the last question
Speaker 1: that I want to ask you, I asked just everyone
Speaker 1: that comes on obviously this podcast is called Hope is Real,
Speaker 1: And I would love to know what the word hope
Speaker 1: means to you.
Speaker 2: Oh, hope to me means that's a tough one. It's
Speaker 2: a really it's a good question whether there's.
Speaker 3: A tough one.
Speaker 2: Hope to me means.
Speaker 3: Never giving up and having the faith and confidencing yourself
Speaker 3: that you can do whatever you want with your life
Speaker 3: and you can overcome whenever you want to overcome, and
Speaker 3: that you have of the power within you to be
Speaker 3: the person that you want to be or that you
Speaker 3: aspire to be.
Speaker 1: I love that. That's really cool. Hey, thank you so
Speaker 1: much for taking the time. I know that you guys
Speaker 1: are so crazy busy at the moment with all the
Speaker 1: twelve million things that you and your family are juggling,
Speaker 1: So I really appreciate you taking the time to come
Speaker 1: on and to chat through your story. And I know
Speaker 1: that it will inspire people, that it will encourage people.
Speaker 1: And I also think, just like I said, I know
Speaker 1: that you'll have the same impact on other people that
Speaker 1: you have on me, even just meeting you and being
Speaker 1: around you and knowing that men can be good and
Speaker 1: that fathers can be good, because I think that a
Speaker 1: lot of the time people can take that for granted
Speaker 1: because it's not what a lot of us grow up with.
Speaker 1: And so thank you for showing us that that can
Speaker 1: be the case. And yeah, again, thank you for taking
Speaker 1: the time to come on. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2: Thank you very much for having me.
Speaker 1: Well that you have it, guys, thank you so much
Speaker 1: for staying and for listening to this episode. And like
Speaker 1: I've said at the beginning, and I always say, if
Speaker 1: any thing in this episode that's been talked about has
Speaker 1: brought anything up for you, you feel like you need to
Speaker 1: talk to someone, then please remember and know that the
Speaker 1: bravest thing that you can do right now is to
Speaker 1: talk to someone, is to ask for help, whether that's
Speaker 1: from a friend, a family member, or if you don't
Speaker 1: know who to talk to, then if you live in Altiola,
Speaker 1: here you can call or text one seven three seven
Speaker 1: at any time to talk to a trained counselor. Or
Speaker 1: if you live overseas, go to dub dub dub dot
Speaker 1: the Voices of Hope dot org for a list of
Speaker 1: international helplines. Remember that no matter what it is that
Speaker 1: you're facing, no matter what it is that you're going through,
Speaker 1: that in all things, hope is real and change is possible.
Speaker 1: I'll see you guys next week.