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Speaker 1: So the New Zealand Initiative is proposing we replace fuel

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Speaker 1: xise duty with a smart road user chargers system. Now,

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Speaker 1: they say the current fuel tax system is outdated and unfair.

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Speaker 1: Under the smart Road User charges, vehicles would actually be

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Speaker 1: charged for actual road usage, time of day, and vehicle type.

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Speaker 1: So it's a little bit more advanced than our current system.

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Speaker 1: It will reduce congestion, they believe, and ensure fair and

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Speaker 1: distribution of costs. And the reports author Dr Matthew Birtchell

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Speaker 1: from the New Zealand Initiative joins me.

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Speaker 2: Now, hello Richard, Oh, Matthew, good morning Andrews.

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Speaker 1: Don't know where the Richard came from, but there we

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Speaker 1: have it. Is this, if we're even considering this, is

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Speaker 1: this an admission that our roads are going to have

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Speaker 1: to become a more expensive place to do business, to

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Speaker 1: drive upon.

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Speaker 2: No, so under smart op road users wouldn't pay more.

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Speaker 2: The system is designed to be revenue neutral, so it's

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Speaker 2: just about shifting how we pay, not about increasing costs.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so, but some people might pay a bit more

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Speaker 1: because they might be not paying as much as they

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Speaker 1: should now, and some will be paying a bit less.

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Speaker 1: So overall cost neutral yep.

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Speaker 2: Correct. So around the margins, if you're traveling and you

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Speaker 2: say to the city centers at peak times, you may

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Speaker 2: be paying slightly more. But across the board, it's a

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Speaker 2: revenue neutral system.

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Speaker 1: But if you don't like it, you cannot doubt by

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Speaker 1: just not driving on the roads.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. I mean that's one of the benefits of

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Speaker 2: having a pricing system for our transport network. You have

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Speaker 2: choices that it gives you flexibility, so you can make

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Speaker 2: those decisions about whether you want to take public transport,

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Speaker 2: shift the time of travel, those sorts of things, So

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Speaker 2: it gives that flexibility.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So when I was talking about this half an

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Speaker 1: hour ago, I was saying, you know, look forward to Sundlizer,

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Speaker 1: where you've got a whole lot of devices that are

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Speaker 1: picking away doing your road user charges, doing your congestion charges,

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Speaker 1: doing everything. Can you explain how your model would actually

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Speaker 1: work It would look like on our cars.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Sure. So road users would have two payment options,

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Speaker 2: an automated pay as you drive system using an in

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Speaker 2: vehicle device, or pre purchase distance licenses like we already

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Speaker 2: use for our ruck So it gives you flexibility for

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Speaker 2: those who want the technology option that's there, but also

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Speaker 2: feel more comfortable with a pre purchase distance license like

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Speaker 2: we already used for ruck you can go for that

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Speaker 2: as well.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so there won't be an electronic thing picking us.

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Speaker 2: Then no, no, So you have the option to have

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Speaker 2: an electronic recorder in your car, but you also have

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Speaker 2: the option to go for the more manual choice.

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Speaker 1: But you need the electronic one if you're going to

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Speaker 1: do the congestion charges at the same time, wouldn't you.

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Speaker 2: Well, you can actually go also for number plate technology,

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Speaker 2: so there are choices there.

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Speaker 1: Fascinating is this being done overseas.

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Speaker 2: So congestion charging, yes, and also tolling. And in the

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Speaker 2: report I canvas a vast array of international examples. So

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Speaker 2: I look at Stockholm, I look at Singapore, I look

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Speaker 2: at the United States, I look at Japan. This would

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Speaker 2: be a world first though, in terms of scaling that

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Speaker 2: up to a universal road pricing system, and I think

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Speaker 2: New Zealand is really well positioned to do this. We

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Speaker 2: already have a road user charge system. It's just about

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Speaker 2: taking the next step because you know, let's be honest,

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Speaker 2: the current setup isn't doing us any good.

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Speaker 1: How long will it take to roll this own.

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Speaker 2: So I've outlined a five year implementation phase. I think

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Speaker 2: it's really important not to go for just a big bang,

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Speaker 2: sudden switch overnight, so you progressively phase out fuel tax

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Speaker 2: with road user charges.

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Speaker 1: Getting text all over the place, mate, he says, how

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Speaker 1: many millions will it cost you change from fuel excise

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Speaker 1: to RUS?

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Speaker 2: Look, that's something for the Ministry of Transport to work out.

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Speaker 2: What I would say in response to that is, our

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Speaker 2: current system is incredibly inefficient.

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Speaker 1: Okay, here's another one. Is there a trade discount?

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Speaker 2: Mate, I haven't factored that into the smartruck proposal as

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Speaker 2: of yet. I think as an important principle you don't

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Speaker 2: really want to be carving out too many exemptions. So

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Speaker 2: if we look at London, then it's congestion charge. One

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Speaker 2: of the main problems that it's had is about fifty

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Speaker 2: percent of road users have an exemption. The point that

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Speaker 2: I just want to reiterate is this is not about

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Speaker 2: putting huge costs on drivers. You know, even just a

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Speaker 2: dollar to say a congestion charge can change travel patterns

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Speaker 2: around the margins and it allows people to get from

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Speaker 2: A to B more efficiently.

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Speaker 1: And I got one more from the audience. What have

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Speaker 1: magnificent audience. They are too. How will this work? How

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Speaker 1: will this work for farmers? For instance, they're driving down

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Speaker 1: the back of the farm and then the next day

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Speaker 1: they're on the road to the shops. But will they

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Speaker 1: end up being charged for the back of the farm

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Speaker 1: driving in that by the rucks?

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Speaker 2: No, the farmers excluded from smart road user charges.

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Speaker 1: Well, hold on, one moment you're saying exemptions are bad,

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Speaker 1: next moment you're exempting.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, if they're driving around the pandock, you know,

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Speaker 2: no problem without it for using public roads, and that's

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Speaker 2: a different matter.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Matthew Burchell, thank you so much for doing some

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Speaker 1: thinking on us. And what do you think about this?

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Speaker 3: He's saying that it's less his system's less complicated. It

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Speaker 3: sounds do you know what doesn't sound that complicated is

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Speaker 3: the text that we used to play pay here in

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Speaker 3: Auckland that they took off us.

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Speaker 1: You fill up the gas and then you pay for

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Speaker 1: the roads.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'm wondering if we went the wrong way,

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Speaker 3: if this kick ass fast track government just was a

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Speaker 3: little bit hasty with that, and perhaps they should have

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Speaker 3: just extended that to the rest of the country. Maybe

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Speaker 3: I don't know, some.

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Speaker 1: Texts asked me before, it isn't New Zealand Initiative right wing?

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Speaker 1: And now of course the texts are saying this is

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Speaker 1: communism at its best. What a croc. And of course

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Speaker 1: somebody said, I've got to read this text, I've got

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Speaker 1: to find it again. Well, tell them I'm dreaming. And

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Speaker 1: then somebody says, oh does he work for the wea

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Speaker 1: for the devil.

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