Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks.
Speaker 2: It is time for the panel and my my my
Speaker 2: first panelist, My first panelist, makes it sound like he
Speaker 2: belongs to me, our first panelist. There is all of
Speaker 2: ours now. Look I was trying to think of a
Speaker 2: way to introduce him. But look at it this way.
Speaker 2: If New Zealand Herald was Lord of the Rings, he'd
Speaker 2: be Gandalf, and it is Simon Wilson. Is that a right?
Speaker 3: I will take that Gandalf on a bicycle. Yeah, magic bicycle.
Speaker 2: I hastened. Yes, indeed, I mean more Gandalf than Bilbo.
Speaker 2: I think, thank you for that. But as I started
Speaker 2: to explore the potential characters, there's there's a range.
Speaker 3: Here's me sitting here thinking you're going to say Sarah.
Speaker 3: I'm saying to myself, please don't say. Don't say Sarah.
Speaker 2: Don't lost opportunity.
Speaker 3: I've got a lot to me to, you know, match
Speaker 3: up to now, don't I? Well, no, I can't say
Speaker 3: a silly thing.
Speaker 1: Well, well.
Speaker 2: Let's see how we go. And and we've got a
Speaker 2: new guest as our second panelist. He's a futurist, the
Speaker 2: CEO of Guerrilla Tech. He has a couple of podcasts,
Speaker 2: including the New Zealand Tech podcast, and his name is
Speaker 2: Paul Spain. Get a Paul Haw you going.
Speaker 4: Yeah, good, nice to Nice to be joining for.
Speaker 2: The first time. Hey what were you thinking?
Speaker 4: I have no idea anyway.
Speaker 2: Good to have you. So what's THEO? What's Gorilla Tech?
Speaker 5: We basically an organization that helps smaller to medium organizations
Speaker 5: to get the maximum leverage out of technology whilst driving
Speaker 5: down all those nask the risk cybersecurity and data privacy,
Speaker 5: which is kind of hard to find for the smaller organizations.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I was feeling a little embarrassed that we had
Speaker 2: to set up a couple of extra mircs and things.
Speaker 2: As you were coming in, I was thinking, Oh God,
Speaker 2: are the tech guy's going to be thinking, oh goodness
Speaker 2: me look at them or their tech.
Speaker 5: I actually thought you were going to ask me to
Speaker 5: go and find it and plug them in because there's
Speaker 5: people usually Oh there's a tech person in the room,
Speaker 5: then they can do it all.
Speaker 2: Well, if you had your black Roadie sort of T
Speaker 2: shirt on, I would have been that's the guy for
Speaker 2: the job. Okay, let's get into it. Haye. Look, there's
Speaker 2: not a lot to talk about yet, because New Zealand's
Speaker 2: currently in thirty third place. But the Paralympics have begun
Speaker 2: and I always think it's a wonderful continuation of the
Speaker 2: festival of Olympics sport and in my favorite city in
Speaker 2: the world, Paris, Simon.
Speaker 3: I'm not sure what else there is to say. It
Speaker 3: is a fantastic competition. It's so exciting, so many ways
Speaker 3: continuing and in Paris, and I think Paris in the
Speaker 3: Olympics are now in the Paralympics. It's just showing itself
Speaker 3: off so well. Isn't it a wonderful, wonderful city of
Speaker 3: culture and history and imagination and excitement.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and of course there will be stories that come
Speaker 2: out about different victories and efforts and stuff. But it
Speaker 2: is quite humbling watching what people who've got some pretty
Speaker 2: significant physical challenges can deliver as athletes. It's phenomenal, isn't it.
Speaker 3: I think that's absolutely true. You sit there on you
Speaker 3: ouch watching going what am I doing with my life?
Speaker 2: Paul?
Speaker 5: Yeah, Look, I'm really excited to see how it plays out.
Speaker 5: It does seem that New Zealand, as always tends to
Speaker 5: punch above our weight when we get into these sort
Speaker 5: of global stages. So yeah, I'm really looking forward to seeing,
Speaker 5: you know, what our power athletes achieve.
Speaker 2: I think we've got a way to go. Obviously, it
Speaker 2: just says at the moment thirty third placement. It's very
Speaker 2: early days. Actually, where do we end up in the Olympics.
Speaker 2: I think we'll we're about twelve because it's the number
Speaker 2: of something that wasn't it, which is pretty fun. It's
Speaker 2: an interesting question.
Speaker 3: About the punching above the weight because you obviously you
Speaker 3: want a factor in not only size, but also the
Speaker 3: way in which each country's sports organizations address the Olympics
Speaker 3: is a priority for them, and from New Zealand it
Speaker 3: really is at the moment and that's why we do
Speaker 3: so well. Are we doing as well as expected? I
Speaker 3: don't know the oubts to that.
Speaker 2: Well, it's early days.
Speaker 3: Well, I'm thinking about the main Olympics where we do
Speaker 3: know the data, but in Paralympics, yes, it's fart really
Speaker 3: to know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, anyway, and of course you know Paris, My love
Speaker 2: watching it just for the difference. It is a stunning
Speaker 2: setting for all they're doing. I don't think they're going
Speaker 2: to be I'm not sure if they're doing any swimming
Speaker 2: in the seand though at this time I haven't missed
Speaker 2: that's right, miss that headline. Okay, right, let's get into
Speaker 2: the big stuff. We'll start with well, we will start
Speaker 2: with you on this one, Simon, because you're I'm not
Speaker 2: sure if you're a fan of Auckland Transport. Winston Peters isn't.
Speaker 2: He wants to scrap Auckland Transport. Says it's a failed
Speaker 2: experiment without enough accountability to the people of Auckland. Does
Speaker 2: he have a point?
Speaker 3: I think my view of Auckland Transport is a bit
Speaker 3: of a curacy.
Speaker 2: It's got it ought.
Speaker 3: To be more accountable. It has a very bureaucratic structure.
Speaker 3: It is less good at doing things than it ought
Speaker 3: to be, particularly in terms of getting things done relatively quickly,
Speaker 3: and it's often not good at consulting. It's in that
Speaker 3: partly bound by the law about how it's supposed to.
Speaker 3: So you consult on something, you get things back, you
Speaker 3: want to change the plan, you've got to reconsultant, and
Speaker 3: on it goes. And that's just really really comes to
Speaker 3: process that they are obliged to go through. But that
Speaker 3: should change the really extraordinary thing about what Winston Peters
Speaker 3: has done and what the Nuzumma First has done. They've
Speaker 3: put this bill up so it'll be in the biscuit
Speaker 3: to be drawn as a member's bill the government at
Speaker 3: the moment. I asked Simeon Brown, Transport Minister, about.
Speaker 2: This just this week.
Speaker 3: They are looking at what he called a range of
Speaker 3: options for the future of Auckland Transport. I said to him,
Speaker 3: is one of them bringing the policy functions into central government?
Speaker 3: He said no, but they are looking at what he
Speaker 3: called a range of options. He wouldn't say more, which
Speaker 3: presumably theoretically could include following the whole thing into back
Speaker 3: into a welb Council. But I doubt very much is
Speaker 3: going to go that far. But given that the Deputy
Speaker 3: prime Minister's party has put up this private members bill
Speaker 3: at a time when one of his in the cabinet
Speaker 3: table has this work underway right now, it's a bit
Speaker 3: of left hand and right hand and a little bit
Speaker 3: of a slap with a hop card over the face
Speaker 3: of sim and Brown.
Speaker 2: If you ask me, well, all the other way if
Speaker 2: they don't pick up Winston's bill, possibly, Look, I have
Speaker 2: to be honest Paul that I'm just going to come
Speaker 2: at this from a complete from a punter's point of view.
Speaker 2: I loathe Auckland Transport. Everything I see going around the city.
Speaker 2: I just there's just so many examples. I just go
Speaker 2: bloody Auckland Transport, the speed limits getting ground down. You know,
Speaker 2: what do you what do you make of this? This
Speaker 2: biscuit and Bill.
Speaker 5: Yes, scrap it, scrap what Bill scrap Auckland Transport and
Speaker 5: let's let's start a free Who should?
Speaker 2: What should? Does he have a point about the lack
Speaker 2: of sort of democratic accountability. I think that's a lot
Speaker 2: of people's frustrations in a way. Although sometimes when councils
Speaker 2: have control of things, it's not a good thing either,
Speaker 2: is it.
Speaker 5: Look I mean, I think we don't engage very well
Speaker 5: with councils as as as voters here there's always sort
Speaker 5: of a low turnout, and you know, they do seem
Speaker 5: to be too many layers of bureaucracy, and then you
Speaker 5: know we don't always get the best results. I remember
Speaker 5: last time I made quite an effort to engage with
Speaker 5: Auckland Transport. Let's try out these trains, and the hop
Speaker 5: card system was such an absolute mess.
Speaker 2: When when was that?
Speaker 4: I mean probably that was going back maybe ten years.
Speaker 4: So how's that relevant, Well, because it hasn't really got
Speaker 4: much better.
Speaker 2: But you don't know that well.
Speaker 4: I do know that well.
Speaker 3: I know that I know about it too because I
Speaker 3: use a hot card. I think the hop cards have
Speaker 3: sped up with buses, get people getting on and off
Speaker 3: the bus. They are reliable, that accurate, They're a really
Speaker 3: efficient way of delivering the whole pay service thing. They
Speaker 3: have upgraded there. Things that you swipe these days so
Speaker 3: that they're easier to read, got a big tech on
Speaker 3: them now instead of a couple of things that you
Speaker 3: know quite know what it means. I think that kind
Speaker 3: of you're the tech guy, but I think that kind
Speaker 3: of technology in our transport system we need more of it.
Speaker 3: And I think it's it's one of the good things
Speaker 3: the things they've done. Well, it's an integrated service right
Speaker 3: across buses, trains and ferries. Although if you really wanted
Speaker 3: to be integrated. When I went to London, it's just here,
Speaker 3: just use your credit card bingo and.
Speaker 2: You know what, it'll know which way you are. Just
Speaker 2: just swipe that you're done for the day. And to
Speaker 2: me it's like, well that's better why don't we do that.
Speaker 3: That's next stage. But that wasn't available to at when
Speaker 3: they said on the hot card system. And there are
Speaker 3: legal reasons for that. It's not their fault, but that's
Speaker 3: the case. I think one of the problems of the
Speaker 3: Auckland transport is that it's now in a bind of
Speaker 3: whatever it does or doesn't do. And I said before,
Speaker 3: there's lots of things I think it doesn't do well enough.
Speaker 3: But whatever it does or doesn't do, there will be
Speaker 3: people who don't like it. So you make the buses
Speaker 3: faster and more frequent and there for more efficient by
Speaker 3: giving them dedicated lanes. You are taking car parks off
Speaker 3: arterial roads to do that, you have to do it
Speaker 3: that way, and that annoys people who want to park there,
Speaker 3: so there's that problem. You slow the traffic down, particularly
Speaker 3: around schools and shopping centers and busy areas, so that
Speaker 3: it is safer for pedestrians, and that's remember in Auckland,
Speaker 3: and half the people who are killed or seriously engined
Speaker 3: on our roads are not in a car hit by
Speaker 3: a car. So if you slow the traffic down, you
Speaker 3: make the roads safer. But you just said you don't
Speaker 3: like it. When the speed limits alled, So you get
Speaker 3: that problem well, and it goes on and on.
Speaker 2: I think that, yeah, there's probably a philosophical difference. I
Speaker 2: think that we should make the roads safer by making
Speaker 2: sure that people I mean encouraging safety, of course, and
Speaker 2: trying not to step out in front of a car.
Speaker 2: But it seems that we've gone down this thing is like,
Speaker 2: let's have it so if you do step out in
Speaker 2: front of a car, it's more of an even contest
Speaker 2: with the pedestrian of the car. You might not get hurt.
Speaker 2: And I sort of think we do have cars for
Speaker 2: getting around quicker, otherwise would all be walking in cyclinging.
Speaker 3: We treat and i'm when treat our roads. We treat
Speaker 3: our roads as if we have as if we're in
Speaker 3: small towns and there are not a lot of cars,
Speaker 3: and we still have the same attitude to them, and
Speaker 3: we shouldn't.
Speaker 2: I think there's a I think sometimes it just feels
Speaker 2: it goes too far. And I'm pretty sure we got
Speaker 2: the speed limits wrong in Auckland City. When regularly, if
Speaker 2: I'm driving home and I get overtaken by a police
Speaker 2: car that isn't even doing the speed limit, I sort
Speaker 2: of think you know this part of the speed limit.
Speaker 2: I don't know that's my thing, but that's that's got
Speaker 2: some one of those dreadful motorists. Paul.
Speaker 5: Yeah, well you know I'm in that club too. Look,
Speaker 5: you know, going back to the cards. You know, some
Speaker 5: years ago there was I was given a bit of
Speaker 5: technology to test out which was linked up with the
Speaker 5: payment system they were using for transport in Wellington. That
Speaker 5: was phenomenal. It worked well. I was given a smartphone
Speaker 5: that was linked into it. You could use it at
Speaker 5: stores to buy things.
Speaker 4: It updated and please.
Speaker 5: It was absolutely superb and it looked like Auckland was
Speaker 5: going that way, and then we went a different way.
Speaker 5: And yeah, to the credit cards, I've experienced that same
Speaker 5: thing Singapore. You know, you tap in and tap out
Speaker 5: with your credit card. I've also gotten off the bus
Speaker 5: and I think it's off a plane in Toronto, tried
Speaker 5: to use the public transport and there's worked like Auckland,
Speaker 5: which is when you go to say hey, how do
Speaker 5: I pay for this? They say, oh, you haven't got
Speaker 5: a card and I'm like, no, I've just derived from
Speaker 5: New Zealand, how would I do that? So you know,
Speaker 5: there are models there that work maybe a bit better
Speaker 5: for everybody.
Speaker 2: Actually, funny enough that we were talking about the Paralympics
Speaker 2: in Paris. I was still quite surprised that you have
Speaker 2: to go up to the booth. That's quite expensive too,
Speaker 2: and you put the money in, you get this little
Speaker 2: card out, and it's sort of felt kind of old school.
Speaker 2: Mind you, that's Paris for you. Anyway. Oh well, we're
Speaker 2: off for a raw. That's all good. Look, while we're
Speaker 2: on New Zealand. First, Shane Jones, who made his communist
Speaker 2: judge comment, Look, if I was to put on my
Speaker 2: appropriateness hat and think about legal precedent and the way
Speaker 2: ministers should ok, he shouldn't really use the sort of
Speaker 2: language Paul. But there was also a part of it.
Speaker 2: It was like, I'm not too bad, I'm not too
Speaker 2: bothered about it. What did you think?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it.
Speaker 5: It does seem out of line for what what what
Speaker 5: we expect.
Speaker 4: And the way we think of communism in New Zealand.
Speaker 5: Right if he had just just said, look, you know,
Speaker 5: big lefty, big writing whatever category that's a bit softer,
Speaker 5: but communists here we kind of look back on the
Speaker 5: worst of communism and you know, we we associate all
Speaker 5: sorts of pretty nasty things with that with that word.
Speaker 2: I think the thing was that he was just making
Speaker 2: a comment about the judge and sort of in a
Speaker 2: judgment sense that maybe he just shouldn't do anyway. But
Speaker 2: he's not. He's not really showing away from it. Is
Speaker 2: the old chain.
Speaker 3: He's absolutely not showing away shying away from it. I mean,
Speaker 3: on the one hand, I think it's appalling that he's
Speaker 3: behaving like.
Speaker 6: That, and there a number of you love it.
Speaker 3: But the thing is, this is the reality of the
Speaker 3: coalition we have now and the MMP system we have.
Speaker 3: More generally, every single party has to play to its
Speaker 3: base and keep them happy, and you see them all
Speaker 3: doing that. So when Shane Jones says she's a communist judge,
Speaker 3: he's not making a considered rational, important or useful comment
Speaker 3: in any way except what he's saying to his base
Speaker 3: is I share your prejudices, so keep on voting for me.
Speaker 3: And that's all he's doing. It's I don't think it's
Speaker 3: helpful in government. I think I would love to think
Speaker 3: we collectively could grow out of that if it said,
Speaker 3: if it said she's just a socialist judge, even.
Speaker 2: That's not really okay given he's a minister, is it.
Speaker 2: I mean, you really need to just need to he
Speaker 2: said it was an adjective as a matter of fact,
Speaker 2: thank you for our grammar lesson sort of thing. But
Speaker 2: he really shouldn't. He should just say, well, probably as
Speaker 2: little as possible, I guess, and Judith will probably have
Speaker 2: a chat with him and like Shane, can you please
Speaker 2: not use them?
Speaker 3: We have in New Zealand with our judges. It's a
Speaker 3: little bit like cricket with our umpires. Still we have
Speaker 3: a relatively high standard of you don't attack them, and
Speaker 3: not all countries have that by any means, and I
Speaker 3: think it's worth trying to hold on to for as
Speaker 3: long as we can. You know, I use the cricket analogy.
Speaker 3: You think about. One of the worst things in sport,
Speaker 3: to my mind, is watching football players arguing with the referee.
Speaker 3: You don't want that happening in any sport, and I
Speaker 3: think it's the same in the judiciary. You don't want
Speaker 3: politicians arguing with judges or having a guard them. It
Speaker 3: just demeans and diminishes the separation and independence and strength
Speaker 3: and integrity of both sides.
Speaker 2: Good point, Simon that's why we've got the areas there
Speaker 2: scandal and we've had a soar on moment almost anyway,
Speaker 2: we'll be back in just a moment. This is the panel,
Speaker 2: my guests, Simon Wilson and Paul Spain. Not a new
Speaker 2: bea to broadcasting all but a new beat to the
Speaker 2: Weekend Collective. We'll be back in just a moment. News
Speaker 2: talks 'db and welcome back to the Weekend Collective. This
Speaker 2: is the panel and my guests Simon Wilson, who probably
Speaker 2: needs no introduction, and Paul Spain, who may not need
Speaker 2: one either, but he is a futurist and a tech guy. Actually,
Speaker 2: is that the best way to the tech guy? I
Speaker 2: don't know. That's probably a little a crude way to
Speaker 2: describe it, isn't it.
Speaker 5: Paul.
Speaker 2: Anyway, listen you can, I'll forgive it. Yeah, there we go.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: Hey, look, I love a bit of positive news, and
Speaker 2: I did think it was an extraordinary bit of news
Speaker 2: when we heard that the entire Canterbary chapter of the
Speaker 2: Common Cero's had been arrested. Obviously a lot of work
Speaker 2: has gone and behind the scenes with the police. An
Speaker 2: eighteen men aged between eighteen and fifty five arrested and
Speaker 2: appeared in christ Church and Auckland on charges including participating
Speaker 2: in an organized criminal groups, conspiracy to supply methan, fetamine
Speaker 2: and a conspiracy to supply cocaine. Just bravo to the police,
Speaker 2: A Simon, nice to go, Bravo, bravo.
Speaker 3: I think you're absolutely right about that. This is very
Speaker 3: good news, very good news for christ Church. And what
Speaker 3: I'm really curious about now is what the police do,
Speaker 3: because presumably they have a plan for this. There's now
Speaker 3: a big vacuum in christ Church of cocaine and methamphetamine,
Speaker 3: and I imagine a number of other criminal gangs are
Speaker 3: going to be trying to rush to fill it, and
Speaker 3: so the police have to step up and try and
Speaker 3: manage that too. Could be an opportunity for that, you
Speaker 3: would think, so, yes, so all proud of them, Yeah, Paul.
Speaker 5: It kind of got me thinking around, you know, what tricks,
Speaker 5: what technology were they using behind the scenes, right, Because
Speaker 5: to get that many people, you've got to have some
Speaker 5: pretty good surveillance, I would imagine, because I mean I
Speaker 5: can't remember the last time, if ever, we've seen something
Speaker 5: like this where you know, the entire gang for an
Speaker 5: area has been has been taken out.
Speaker 2: And because I think the general punter, we all imagine that,
Speaker 2: you know, they've got some recordings of people, and there's
Speaker 2: a bit of surveillance here and there, but the amount
Speaker 2: of dotting of eyes and crossing of te's you would
Speaker 2: have to have to arrest every single person. The amount
Speaker 2: of work would be immense. It's not wouldn't just be like, oh,
Speaker 2: we've got a pretty good hunch we've seen this guy
Speaker 2: talking to that guy. They're all guilty, let's go get them.
Speaker 2: You would have to have tangible, solid evidence on every
Speaker 2: single person. I just think it's it's I just think
Speaker 2: the police have done an amazing job. It's incredible.
Speaker 3: Aim you presume that all of those arrests are real
Speaker 3: arrest that they're not just will just grab everyone in
Speaker 3: the room, And that therefore means, well, you'd have to
Speaker 3: have some evidence. Did you got to get them on
Speaker 3: conspiracy or something like that. Don't You've got to get
Speaker 3: everyone who was in the room when this plan was discussed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so good on them. Fingers. I mean asked to
Speaker 2: how many convictions it leads to and when that actually happens, Well,
Speaker 2: it's not going to be not going.
Speaker 3: To be over and it's a signal of intent, isn't it.
Speaker 3: And that's that's great.
Speaker 2: Speaking of just on the just why we're talking about
Speaker 2: police things.
Speaker 6: I enjoyed the well did I enjoy it. I wasn't
Speaker 6: sure what I.
Speaker 2: Initially thought of it. But Ginny Anderson, who'd posted the
Speaker 2: wrong foot patrol statistics when it looked like and Bennett
Speaker 2: Collins from One News presented her with the evidence, and
Speaker 2: she looked like a toddler who had been caught eating
Speaker 2: a biscuit she shouldn't have and just simply denied it.
Speaker 2: It's like, well, no, this is and she couldn't. I mean,
Speaker 2: was there a way for her to back down? She
Speaker 2: was going with foot patrols have gone down, and it
Speaker 2: looks like by all accounts they've gone up. Simon.
Speaker 3: It was a terribly embarrassing moment for her. And I
Speaker 3: guess the thing about anyone who's caught completely wrong footed
Speaker 3: like that, as you are going to spend a moment
Speaker 3: or two looking like the toddlerho's tole in before you
Speaker 3: recover your works and work out what else to do.
Speaker 3: I think one of the things underlying this, though, is
Speaker 3: that while it is now clear foot patrols have gone
Speaker 3: up around the country and that's a good thing in
Speaker 3: itself now because it helps people on the streets and
Speaker 3: retailers feel safer, and that's a good thing. But those
Speaker 3: police have come from somewhere, and presumably some of them
Speaker 3: at least have come from the thing that police spend
Speaker 3: a lot of their time doing which they are now
Speaker 3: pegging back, which is domestic final stoils.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Still, nevertheless, it still feels like actually, just on
Speaker 2: the politics side of things, Paul, I just wonder if
Speaker 2: things like politicians never want to admit they're wrong, whereas
Speaker 2: I'm wondering if times have changed that actually a bit
Speaker 2: of a mayor culpa makes usually makes us just go, oh, well,
Speaker 2: good on you. You've made a mistake and you've admitted it,
Speaker 2: and unfortunately you haven't got the headline you wanted from
Speaker 2: this interview, but there we go. What do you reckon?
Speaker 1: Well?
Speaker 5: I think that that's what we should expect from leaders, right,
Speaker 5: we expect them to be real and honest and straight up.
Speaker 5: We all we all make mistakes and and look, you know,
Speaker 5: social media has made it very easy for any of
Speaker 5: us politicians included to you know, throw something up into
Speaker 5: into you know, public view for discussion, and sometimes that's
Speaker 5: just done too quickly and they get the wrong results.
Speaker 5: Sometimes you you definitely feel people are deliberately spinning things.
Speaker 5: I don't know what the reality is here, but yeah,
Speaker 5: I would have thought a simple apology probably would have
Speaker 5: been the best course of action in this case.
Speaker 3: I think that's surprising about this is that it was
Speaker 3: Ginny Anderson. I don't think she's a politician with a
Speaker 3: reputation for putting her foot in her mouth.
Speaker 2: I think still recall she said something pretty nasty about
Speaker 2: Mark Mitchell talking about killing people for living and stuff
Speaker 2: where she came off very poorly.
Speaker 3: That is true too, But I think her generally within
Speaker 3: the police portfolio, what she's advocated for she was the
Speaker 3: police minister. Remember what she's argued with him about in
Speaker 3: relation to police and generally has been pretty straight up.
Speaker 3: This is a real.
Speaker 2: Lat yeah clang, now look, actually, well we'll start We'll
Speaker 2: start with you on this one. Paul so New Zealand
Speaker 2: government on Monday they said they're going to pass laws
Speaker 2: by the end of the year to reverse a band
Speaker 2: on offshore oil and gas exploration. While we look well look,
Speaker 2: if we could all get bar and renewables instantly right now. Fine.
Speaker 2: But to me, I think most people would say that
Speaker 2: this is a pragmatic step that we simply have to
Speaker 2: take given the hypocrisy of importing shiploads of Indonesian coal
Speaker 2: and all that. Where are you where you with this
Speaker 2: reversal of the band and oil and gas exploration?
Speaker 5: Yeah, look, I think this is probably the right move.
Speaker 5: It's certainly not going to please everybody. But you know,
Speaker 5: you talk to the to the coal situation, that's that's
Speaker 5: been a real nightmare.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 5: I heard that the situation where there's only a couple
Speaker 5: of places they can actually get coal. You know that
Speaker 5: that suits us for for energy here. So look, yep,
Speaker 5: let's uh, let's do it. I'm not saying, you know,
Speaker 5: we we completely flip things around, but I think the
Speaker 5: direction that they're taking makes sense.
Speaker 2: Actually, yes, we're going to come to you, okay, you know,
Speaker 2: I'm going to come in as Sarah or Dandalf and
Speaker 2: you can decide Richard which it is. It was interesting
Speaker 2: the other look, I think it's a pragmatic step, but
Speaker 2: it's interesting to see how well we are doing on
Speaker 2: renewable projects. And I think we need to continue to
Speaker 2: invest in that. It's just that I think we have
Speaker 2: to be you know. I think part of the thing
Speaker 2: that's sort of I find well, I don't know what
Speaker 2: my view is, but it's almost like, if only in
Speaker 2: New Zealand, you get it right, we will solve all
Speaker 2: the world's problems. When you know, the world has a
Speaker 2: major challenge with the sorts of fuels we rely on,
Speaker 2: and renewables are incredibly important. But I don't want to
Speaker 2: find that we've got the situation where we can't generate
Speaker 2: the power we need as well.
Speaker 3: I think there is so much that's wrong about this
Speaker 3: reversal of the ban on new oil and gas exploration.
Speaker 3: The first one is linking it to the current crisis.
Speaker 3: There is nothing in oil or gas exploration that will
Speaker 3: alleviate the current crisis. It is if the exploration starts
Speaker 3: up straight away, it will still be years before anything
Speaker 3: comes on stream if they find anything, and there's no
Speaker 3: guarantee that that will happen. That's the first thing. The
Speaker 3: second thing, because it's a long term strategic goal. Now
Speaker 3: you've got to then ask the question, why would we
Speaker 3: be like anyone else in the world expanding our fossil
Speaker 3: fuels footprint. Why would you do that when we know
Speaker 3: perfectly well that we have to reverse that trend at
Speaker 3: some point. We've got the position.
Speaker 2: To do it now.
Speaker 3: And the reason we've got the position to do it
Speaker 3: now is that we have in this country lots of
Speaker 3: solar and lots of wind. We have wind farms consented
Speaker 3: and ready to go, but they are not being built.
Speaker 3: And the reason for that is that the gentailors, the
Speaker 3: big power companies that have those consents, are incentivized to
Speaker 3: pay dividends to their members rather than invest in the
Speaker 3: new technology and transfer that. And that's just an extraordinary thing.
Speaker 3: And if you take the single element of it, solar,
Speaker 3: New Zealand has something like one to two percent of
Speaker 3: its energy generation from solar, the tiny amount Australia has
Speaker 3: thirty to thirty five percent. Yes, Australia is a sunnier country,
Speaker 3: but Melbourne has thirty percent. Melbourne is not a sunnier
Speaker 3: city than most New Zealand cities, and that's because they've
Speaker 3: put solar on that ruse. If you fly into Auckland
Speaker 3: or any of our cities and you look at those
Speaker 3: enormous expenses of flat rus where the industrial sector are.
Speaker 3: Why are they not covered in solar panels? Why has
Speaker 3: that not being a national campaign? Do all that get
Speaker 3: those things going properly? We won't need we absolutely will
Speaker 3: not need to have New Orlean gas.
Speaker 2: It's funny. I think Chris Hopkins made a remark though,
Speaker 2: that there's something about there won't be the demand for gas,
Speaker 2: so why they're doing it. I'm like, well, given that
Speaker 2: you're calling for private investment, people don't like to lose money,
Speaker 2: so obviously there is an anticipated demand for it, because
Speaker 2: that's what they're lying on private investment to go and
Speaker 2: explore for that poor.
Speaker 4: Yeah, look, it does seem to make sense. I'm an
Speaker 4: ev driver.
Speaker 5: I like the fact that in New Zealand, you know,
Speaker 5: we have a lot of renewable energy, but there is
Speaker 5: a scenario here where things have to add up financial.
Speaker 5: We've got to be able to afford to pay for
Speaker 5: our electricity, and you know, at the moment we've got
Speaker 5: some challenges. I'd imagine those are going to continue unless
Speaker 5: we're address things.
Speaker 2: Yeah, are you are you one hundred percent renewable guy?
Speaker 2: You know, remember the I remember the vaguely the discussion
Speaker 2: thing ninety five percent is really achievable. The next extra
Speaker 2: five percent is heenously expensive. Where are you?
Speaker 3: I'm actually agnostic on that. I don't don't for a
Speaker 3: second thing. I think that means we should expand our
Speaker 3: or gas or our gas expiration or productivity. But I
Speaker 3: am agnostic about the getting to the final hundred percent.
Speaker 3: I think it's much more important to approach it the
Speaker 3: other way around, saying how are we maximizing our renewables potential?
Speaker 3: And that's what we should be focusing.
Speaker 2: The surprising thing when we had Andrew Bascandor from Harbar
Speaker 2: Asset Management on our Money Show and he wanted to
Speaker 2: talk about renewables and there are it is? It was
Speaker 2: interesting to hear from him from the money point of view,
Speaker 2: just talking about how much how well we are actually
Speaker 2: doing on the renewables here was actually quite optimistic that
Speaker 2: we're doing incredibly well. So that was was just interesting
Speaker 2: to hear it from that sort of an analytical point
Speaker 2: of view.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because it's so relatively cheap.
Speaker 2: Now, Yeah, I heard, have you got soler?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 2: I haven't.
Speaker 3: No, I got a nice open go around a Simon.
Speaker 2: Wouldn't it be funny to go to Simon's and he's like,
Speaker 2: let me just get out and stake the fire, and
Speaker 2: I do not have a fun.
Speaker 4: Heturg do we have the discussion about nuclear Oh.
Speaker 2: That to save that for another day. But that's exciting too,
Speaker 2: would be exciting and scary a whole lot of things,
Speaker 2: but we can't. With only twenty minutes to go, We're
Speaker 2: probably going to touch on that one for this one,
Speaker 2: but thank you, Paul. Twenty two minutes to four News
Speaker 2: Talk sed B. Yes, welcome back to the Weekend Collective.
Speaker 2: My panelist today. This is Simon Wilson and Paul Spain
Speaker 2: and guys, Actually, just before we get to the America's Cup,
Speaker 2: the fines for misuse of mobility parking are set to
Speaker 2: increase quite a lot. So at the moment, if you're
Speaker 2: caught in a ability spot as one hundred and fifty bucks,
Speaker 2: it's going to increase to seven hundred and fifty reflecting
Speaker 2: the seriousness of this offense. Interesting that the story pops
Speaker 2: up because I was outraged during the middle of a
Speaker 2: very busy time in my neighborhood in Saint heleyas this
Speaker 2: car had pulled up and plopped itself in the mobility
Speaker 2: park and for some reason, it really ground my gears
Speaker 2: and I found myself going, look, there's no mobility past there.
Speaker 2: That's just somebody's just popped themselves there. And I actually
Speaker 2: took a photo of it, and I didn't shop them in,
Speaker 2: but I really sort of wish I had, because I
Speaker 2: do think that it's one of the more crappy things
Speaker 2: you can do to your neighbors, so to speak, if
Speaker 2: your neighbor has happens to be disabled, that you parking
Speaker 2: that spot, Simon, you're just supposed fine.
Speaker 3: I think this might be the first issue in the
Speaker 3: history of media of any kind where there is no
Speaker 3: other side. I don't think anybody's going to speak up
Speaker 3: in opposition to this move to increase the fines for
Speaker 3: this behavior. Are they, I mean, actually going to try
Speaker 3: and defend it.
Speaker 2: I don't know. Paul, do you agree seven whacking it up?
Speaker 2: Five hundred?
Speaker 4: I agree?
Speaker 2: Oh he's But.
Speaker 4: I have to I have to tell you about the
Speaker 4: younger Paul Spain Market.
Speaker 5: See a row of seven empty slots near the front,
Speaker 5: and think, if there's all these slots, surely if I
Speaker 5: take the furthest one away, that's not offensive.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 4: I got slapped around for that and did you get.
Speaker 2: Slaped around physically or no.
Speaker 5: No, just just in terms of people say Paul, no,
Speaker 5: you do not you do not do that doesn't.
Speaker 4: Matter, good friend, that's not something you do.
Speaker 3: Mate.
Speaker 2: Actually you're not up for a seven hundred and fifty
Speaker 2: dollar fine at wal westle count because that's private land.
Speaker 2: But they might actually they might claim well they should could.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's another element to this which is not in
Speaker 3: any way relating to defending the indefensible. But the government
Speaker 3: led with the announcement that disability fine would go packing disability.
Speaker 3: We've got in the phone for that, We've got What
Speaker 3: they've actually done is raise the phones right across for
Speaker 3: parking because for some extraordinary reason that is controlled by
Speaker 3: our parliament and not by Councilor twelve.
Speaker 2: Dollar fine for parking over ten minutes or something, and.
Speaker 3: You're controlled by parliament, it is absolutely nuts. But the
Speaker 3: actual parking fee there loophole, the pargon fee payers is
Speaker 3: controlled by councilsel So counselors haven't been able to increase
Speaker 3: their parking fees when they want to to the degree
Speaker 3: they might have wanted to, because if the ratio between
Speaker 3: fee and fine isn't right, then people will just riskle Well, I.
Speaker 2: Would say that a younger Tim Beverage at some stage thought,
Speaker 2: instead of going into the Wilson's car park, I've just
Speaker 2: gone tell you what I'll park here. I've I'll park
Speaker 2: for pay for fifteen minutes. I'll use it for thirty
Speaker 2: to forty five and if I get a twelve dollar fine,
Speaker 2: that's a good deal. Yeah.
Speaker 3: So you know, parking or old parking wardens the evil
Speaker 3: people in our society. They actually do a great job out.
Speaker 3: Their job is to keep traffic flowing, keep it functional,
Speaker 3: make it possible for people who are coming into the
Speaker 3: city and do need to park, make it relatively possible
Speaker 3: for them to find one. And therefore phones fees in
Speaker 3: phones should be a reasonable level, and parking meters should.
Speaker 2: Be Actually, on that topic, I've actually encountered a parking
Speaker 2: warden when they've given me a fine for something. And
Speaker 2: I don't have any time for people who abuse people
Speaker 2: who are doing their jobs. I just say I might
Speaker 2: have even said fair cop. Well, one time I got
Speaker 2: there before they opened the notepad and said, am I
Speaker 2: in time? And he said you are just in time?
Speaker 2: And I wear to laugh and all that, but I
Speaker 2: hate people who abuse. You know you've parked there, somebody's
Speaker 2: giving you a ticket. Suck it up, princess. Any disagreement there,
Speaker 2: we're all on the same page.
Speaker 5: The fees need to go up for that, but we
Speaker 5: probably need more parks in someplaces.
Speaker 2: Hang on here, let's do this ready, Simon. No, we
Speaker 2: don't know. Yes we do. No, we don't, Yes we do,
Speaker 2: Yes we do.
Speaker 3: How many minutes are we're going to go this?
Speaker 2: Look? I think that there's a happy medium somewhere, and
Speaker 2: maybe it's in between your position and mine. But who knows. No,
Speaker 2: we don't, yes it is. Hey, look I do. I
Speaker 2: don't know about you, guys, but I was a little
Speaker 2: bit mortified. I'm into the America's Cup because I wasn't
Speaker 2: sure I would be, and I always have been quite
Speaker 2: an America's Cup fan. And then I found out that
Speaker 2: all the all the the races are on YouTube, and
Speaker 2: I went into the America's Cup website. And I love
Speaker 2: the fact that we're in this innovative sailing nation and
Speaker 2: I love watching the boats. And I was kind of
Speaker 2: mortified that the imagine Grant Dalton would have the might
Speaker 2: have been some few cross words when they dropped pretty
Speaker 2: much dropped the boat. But they're going to get it
Speaker 2: back on the water. But anyway, Paul, America's Cup, anything
Speaker 2: you love or hate about it, or you're sort of like,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 5: Oh look, I love the innovation that New Zealand is
Speaker 5: just such as such a key part of it. You know,
Speaker 5: we contribute to all of the all of the teams
Speaker 5: and varying ways. You know, it's great for our economy
Speaker 5: and it's something we've done very well at. So yeah,
Speaker 5: I was pretty shocked when we saw the boat drop.
Speaker 4: That was that was not good.
Speaker 2: I would just love to have been a fly on
Speaker 2: the wall because apparently Grant Dalton heard it. He wasn't
Speaker 2: just to hear what was that explosion? Sounds simon I was.
Speaker 3: I once used to argue that the great thing about
Speaker 3: the America's Cup was it was a major event in
Speaker 3: this country, in the city of Auckland. And I'm a
Speaker 3: great believer in events of all kinds, whether or not
Speaker 3: I personally want to go to them. Now, cities need
Speaker 3: big events. But of course that isn't relevant to the
Speaker 3: America's Cup anymore and probably never will be. I think
Speaker 3: the America's Cup is essentially a con because of that, And.
Speaker 2: I also can't who's con.
Speaker 3: We're meant to be far more interested in and engaged
Speaker 3: in this thing than we than any rational person might be,
Speaker 3: especially because we have the sal GP series boats get
Speaker 3: up on foils now without the America's Cup, and it's
Speaker 3: exciting racing all over the world in lots of different classes.
Speaker 3: When what is the point of the cup?
Speaker 2: Still?
Speaker 6: I don't what it's match racing at its finest and
Speaker 6: the finest vessels, with the finest cruise, with the finest technology,
Speaker 6: with the finest sales, and these amazing craft that can
Speaker 6: go in an eight knot wind about forty knots?
Speaker 2: And does it Is it more exciting than sol GP?
Speaker 5: Oh?
Speaker 2: I think sol GPS. I think they're both exciting. I
Speaker 2: think it's it's a bit like saying do you prefer
Speaker 2: a team sport? Like watch watching Swimbledon.
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm aware that it's probably like saying do
Speaker 3: you want to watch Formula one or there? Or NASCAR?
Speaker 2: Good enough? Why didn't use that one? Actually? I do
Speaker 2: want to say I was watching the other day and
Speaker 2: I thought, so there was a maneuver where we have
Speaker 2: this thing that America's Cup. Our team have high mode
Speaker 2: where they can basically sell a little closer to the wind.
Speaker 2: And I'm watching this race and Prata are beating us
Speaker 2: and it's very close. And then we get into this
Speaker 2: close sailing situation where Tea New Zealand's just behind them,
Speaker 2: and in the course of about thirty seconds, we had
Speaker 2: a couple of tacks and they're talking about going to
Speaker 2: high mode, boy high note, and all of a sudden
Speaker 2: you just see us go past them with a couple
Speaker 2: of moves, and the commentators it's like they're watching a
Speaker 2: different race. I'm like, when are the commentators going to
Speaker 2: acknowledge that we've just seen one of the most impressive
Speaker 2: overtakings of a top notch team simply because we've got
Speaker 2: a different way of doing things. And eventually they said, oh,
Speaker 2: and there's a league change. I was like, welcome to
Speaker 2: the party, princess.
Speaker 3: It's a second as exciting as watching Alex Ye run
Speaker 3: past Hayden Wild British without.
Speaker 2: Any high tech. I didn't find that particularly exciting, you
Speaker 2: know what I'm saying, But because they didn't notice the
Speaker 2: right focusing anyway, let'sport a sport.
Speaker 4: And look, there is a tech angle to the America's
Speaker 4: Cup is the.
Speaker 5: Last campaign team New Zealand poured away nearly five percent
Speaker 5: of their budget on a cyber scam. So there's been
Speaker 5: a good, good lesson in there. Yeah, so they got
Speaker 5: a they got an email in that said we want
Speaker 5: you to pay this bill into a different bank account.
Speaker 5: And unfortunately they hadn't been trained internally, so they said, sure,
Speaker 5: we'll send the money wherever you like.
Speaker 2: And they said they have.
Speaker 3: The finest tech mines available to them working around the clank.
Speaker 5: I guess not not not on the occuruncy.
Speaker 2: Computers funny on that without using any names. And we
Speaker 2: have all these we have these tech things we have
Speaker 2: to do. You have to do a tech update on
Speaker 2: cybersecurity every month or so. You get this thing, tim
Speaker 2: you haven't done your text thing. You've got to go
Speaker 2: click through. And I just went on logged and went
Speaker 2: to go log onto my email, and I have I
Speaker 2: opened the email of someone else because I said I
Speaker 2: want to get into my email, and it opened into
Speaker 2: the email of this particular host who probably wouldn't want
Speaker 2: me to go through. That person's no gender specifically assigned.
Speaker 3: So you're just going to guess that I was not
Speaker 3: doing those security checks.
Speaker 2: And you know how good was I thought? Just don't
Speaker 2: look Tim, even though I was like, oh, there's an
Speaker 2: email from such and such things.
Speaker 3: See the halo around his head at the moment.
Speaker 2: Anyway, there we go. I won me to need their names.
Speaker 2: Of course, though no I wa' referred to it.
Speaker 5: Is sent an email from that account to all staff saying,
Speaker 5: my shout for lunch on Monday.
Speaker 4: That's what happened.
Speaker 2: Like the guy in those modules, now, I should have
Speaker 2: sent an email from him to the boss saying I
Speaker 2: listen to Tim Beverage the other day. God, he's good.
Speaker 2: We'll be back in just a moment. Nine minutes two
Speaker 2: four News talks. He'd be Y's welcome back to the
Speaker 2: Weekend Collective, my panelist Simon Wilson and Paul Spain just quickly, guys,
Speaker 2: I have found myself not that interested in the All
Speaker 2: Blacks until now. I am quite interested in our game
Speaker 2: in South Africa.
Speaker 3: Simon, well, I'm interested in it as well. Although I'm
Speaker 3: fearfully interested. It's going to be really, really hard game
Speaker 3: for the Oblacks to win.
Speaker 2: And I think just because my expectations are that we
Speaker 2: could easily lose and I'm not expecting to win, then
Speaker 2: I'm really going to enjoy because I'm not. You know,
Speaker 2: the worst thing is when you're expect them to win,
Speaker 2: You're like, what do you mean you're losing, Paul, Yeah,
Speaker 2: I've been.
Speaker 5: My My confidence has certainly dampened. What they're number three
Speaker 5: in the world at the moment. They know, they're just
Speaker 5: not winning as consistently as they should and or as
Speaker 5: we expect, and yeah, how they're going to do in
Speaker 5: South Africa.
Speaker 4: I think it's a flip of a coin.
Speaker 3: What's exciting about this game is that both teams now
Speaker 3: subscribed to the idea that you need really big, tough
Speaker 3: forwards who are going to go very hard at each
Speaker 3: other and really adventurous backs who are going to do
Speaker 3: great things off the back of that. And because they
Speaker 3: both subscribe to that, it ought to be a really
Speaker 3: thrilling game.
Speaker 2: Just reminds me of those days when we're before sky
Speaker 2: and all that sort of thing with a little kid
Speaker 2: getting up in the middle of the night and with
Speaker 2: the whole family and the hot chocolates and watching watching.
Speaker 3: I'm not gidding, I'm not staying up for getting it.
Speaker 2: I'm not getting up. Goodness. I just remember the days
Speaker 2: when choice we had. Hey, guys, thank you so much
Speaker 2: for coming on. Simons and Paul Spain hasn't been too bad.
Speaker 2: Simon hasn't been too mean to you, has Paul.
Speaker 4: No, he didn't throw any punches. So you know I
Speaker 4: was going to have.
Speaker 3: Till thirty seconds right, you will not pass.
Speaker 2: That's the line, isn't it. Yeah, when do we get
Speaker 2: to them thou shalt not pass? We haven't quite got that.
Speaker 2: That's next episode. Okay, thanks, thanks Simon, thanks for forming on.
Speaker 2: We'll be back with the Wonder If Property Right Radio
Speaker 2: show Helen No Sullivan is join joining us is now
Speaker 2: the time to buy? Will be one of the questions
Speaker 2: we'll explore with Helen. It is. Come up to the
Speaker 2: News three and a half minutes to four News Talks
Speaker 2: d B.
Speaker 1: For more from the weekend collective, listen live to News
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