1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,320 Speaker 1: Running the country at the moment is David Seymour, who 2 00:00:02,560 --> 00:00:04,440 Speaker 1: that's good to see you. Mindingway a couple of things. 3 00:00:04,519 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: Just before the news, I was mentioning this Uber case 4 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:08,720 Speaker 1: which has been in court, and I know you guys 5 00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:12,239 Speaker 1: are interested in it. Are you doing something about it? 6 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 1: Will you do something about it? Or are you going 7 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 1: to wait for the court to rule before you do 8 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:16,600 Speaker 1: anything about it. 9 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:19,520 Speaker 2: Well, Brook van Valden's our Minister for workplace Relations and 10 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:22,720 Speaker 2: she's committed to making it clear that if you want 11 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 2: to be in a contract relationship, you're not going to 12 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 2: have that changed into employment somewhere down the track, because 13 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 2: if you say, look, you know you signed a contract now, 14 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:34,319 Speaker 2: but it could be turned into employment with all those 15 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 2: obligations later on, basically means contractings meaningless. And for a 16 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:40,840 Speaker 2: lot of people, including people and the likes of Uber, 17 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:44,159 Speaker 2: contracting is actually a godsend because it allows you the 18 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:45,520 Speaker 2: freedom to choose your own terms. 19 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:47,879 Speaker 1: So you're saying they're wasting their time in court. 20 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 2: I certainly would not say that, but I am saying 21 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 2: that we have a government that is committed to the 22 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 2: freedom to contract. 23 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:57,960 Speaker 1: If the court rules in their favor, though and flips it. 24 00:00:58,000 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 1: What are you going to do about it? 25 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 2: Well, have to actually see what the court ruling said 26 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:05,840 Speaker 2: and then decide our next step. Obviously, we respect the 27 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 2: jurisdiction of the courts to make their own calls and 28 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 2: interpret the law as they see fit. But equally, as 29 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 2: an elected government and a parliament, we reserve the right 30 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 2: to ensure that our policies that people voted for are 31 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:20,760 Speaker 2: put in place for New Zealanders to access, including the 32 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:21,759 Speaker 2: freedom to contract. 33 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:24,400 Speaker 1: All right, So as in your role as the boss 34 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 1: of Farmact today there's an announcement coming, what is it 35 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:29,320 Speaker 1: and where's the trituy white tongue you fit into it? 36 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 2: So as the Minister, I can write a letter of 37 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 2: expectation to the board. I mean, Farmac's actually got its 38 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:38,119 Speaker 2: own board. It's a bit independent, but ministers can write 39 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 2: these letters. And this letter says, look, you guys are 40 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 2: tremendous people. You're very qualified, you do an amazing job, 41 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 2: but over time your culture has become a bit defensive. 42 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 2: We'd like to see you more collaborative with clinicians and 43 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 2: patient groups and vendors of medical technology. It also says 44 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:58,880 Speaker 2: we acknowledge previously that the Minister of Health Eischeverril said 45 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 2: you must embed the treaty and everything that you do. 46 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 2: My basic message is, I know she said that, but actually, 47 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 2: if embedding the treaty means that you treat every single 48 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:11,919 Speaker 2: patient exactly the same based on need, then that's all Carpi. 49 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 2: But we don't need to mention it. If embedding the 50 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 2: Treaty means that you're going to treat people differently based 51 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:19,800 Speaker 2: on who their ancestors were hundreds of years ago, we 52 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 2: don't want to know about it. Because we actually believe 53 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 2: in universal human rights. 54 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 1: Will they follow that well? 55 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 2: They are expected to the board will be responsible for 56 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 2: upholding the policies of the organization. We have a chair 57 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 2: in Paula Bennett that we appointed last month and she 58 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:43,519 Speaker 2: is I think absolutely committed to following the directives from 59 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 2: the Minister and ultimately the Cabinet and government. So yes, 60 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 2: I expect they will. 61 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 1: In your time as minister, what you what is embedding 62 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 1: the Treaty in a decision? I mean, you're out there 63 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:57,640 Speaker 1: negotiating with a drug company to buy some pills or 64 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:00,240 Speaker 1: potions or treatments. Where does the treaty come into that? 65 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:03,680 Speaker 2: Frankly, I think the reason that we have pylons falling 66 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:06,800 Speaker 2: over and firies crashing into beaches, and who knows what 67 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:10,520 Speaker 2: else going on. Is that we've had enormous emphasis on 68 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 2: the intangible and not enough emphasis on the tangible. If 69 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 2: you look at the case of Transpower, they published very 70 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:22,519 Speaker 2: high minded reports. I think it was something like to 71 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:28,080 Speaker 2: hero Maldi, and that's wonderful, but you know what they 72 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:30,119 Speaker 2: needed to do make sure that they screwed the nuts 73 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 2: in at the right. 74 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 1: Time, right. So there's nothing actually that you can cite 75 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 1: that far Mek had been doing having embedded the treaty 76 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 1: into their decision making process, that's manifestly changed anything at all. 77 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 2: Ultimately, you make a decision do we use the money 78 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 2: we have to fund this treatment or that treatment based 79 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:49,840 Speaker 2: on the maths how many years of life can we save? 80 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 2: I have to say I'm eager to see far Mek 81 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 2: take a more holistic view of how can we save 82 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 2: the taxpayer money with fewer hospital admissions or more people working, 83 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 2: fewer people on benefits and so on, so that they're 84 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 2: taking a wider view. But it's still a mathematical formula 85 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 2: To answer your question in relation to it, does embedding 86 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 2: the treaty really change something? As technical and tangible as 87 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 2: choosing drugs. No, it certainly should not. I can't imagine 88 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:17,920 Speaker 2: how it would. What I do notice is that they've 89 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:21,839 Speaker 2: hired quite a number of people to fulfill this obligation 90 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 2: to the previous government, regardless of whether it's practical. I 91 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:31,279 Speaker 2: expect that the board, led by Paula Bennett, will be 92 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:33,840 Speaker 2: making sure that they're focused on how do we get 93 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 2: the treatments to the sick people as quickly as possible 94 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 2: for the money we have. 95 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:39,360 Speaker 1: Should a few people get sacked in that sense because 96 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:41,599 Speaker 1: you appoint the board, the board do them hiring and firing. 97 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 1: There are people clearly who've been adhering to the previous 98 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:47,360 Speaker 1: administrations edicts that shouldn't be there. 99 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 2: Well, I hate to seem like I'm weaseling out of it, 100 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:52,360 Speaker 2: but it is actually up to the board. So you know, 101 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:56,360 Speaker 2: I appoint them, I write them a letter. They basically 102 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 2: govern the thing, the chief executive and senior leadership team. 103 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:02,479 Speaker 1: In appointing the board, do you go, jeez, I'll be astonished, 104 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 1: paul if we don't see a bit of change there, 105 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 1: What do you reckon? And Paula goes, I think so too, David. 106 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 2: Well, if we had had a conversation like that, I 107 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:11,359 Speaker 2: wouldn't be allowed to talk about it here, would I. 108 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:14,839 Speaker 1: The bill that you've got, is it a private members 109 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 1: bill on the Council and climate change? 110 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 2: Yeah? So that's Mark Cameron, the hero of rural New 111 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 2: Zealand in Parliament and a tremendous guy. You may have seen. 112 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:25,919 Speaker 2: He's had some tough times and it was ridden up 113 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 2: in the Herald last weekend. But you know, I think 114 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 2: Mark literally believes that every rural New Zealander is genetically 115 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 2: related to him and he will do anything to stand 116 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 2: up for a country. What he's produced as a member's 117 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 2: bill which has to be drawn from the ballot and 118 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 2: so on, But it basically says, look, councils don't need 119 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:48,479 Speaker 2: to be considering climate messes under the RIMA because we 120 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 2: have a thing called the emissions Trading scheme. If you 121 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 2: want to emit carbon dioxide, you can, but there's a 122 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:55,479 Speaker 2: cap number of units that you've got to buy, and 123 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 2: if you admit too many, of the price goes up. 124 00:05:57,120 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 2: So deal with it that way. Duplication by councils just 125 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 2: means more bureaucracy and Bioscity's one thing New Zealand ain't shut. 126 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 1: Off, So you've got to get it out of the ballot. 127 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 1: If you get it out of the ballot, do you 128 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:07,600 Speaker 1: have the numbers off you canvasated at all or not. 129 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 2: Look, I don't know where Mark's up to and doing that, 130 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:14,719 Speaker 2: but I suspect that you'd expect you get pretty good 131 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 2: support from New Zealand versus to National and that's a majority. 132 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 2: But I can't speak for them right now. 133 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 1: You mentioned fairies how protracted and I know you won't 134 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:25,040 Speaker 1: answer this, but because you seem super tense about it, 135 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 1: how protracted are the discussions with the Koreans about getting 136 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:29,040 Speaker 1: out of that thing? 137 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, you had it right before. I Well, look, 138 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 2: I mean, in fairness, you know, we've got some officials 139 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:38,839 Speaker 2: who are there playing cards on behalf of the New 140 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:41,280 Speaker 2: Zealand taxpayer with hundreds of millions of dollars at stake. 141 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:43,159 Speaker 2: So I'm not going to sit there and tell the 142 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 2: world what I don't want you to. 143 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:46,600 Speaker 1: But the writing was that the paperwork came out at 144 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 1: about the same time from Treasury saying you've got to 145 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 1: be careful about this, at about the same time Nicol 146 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:53,279 Speaker 1: had sided it wasn't on. Is it possible we will 147 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 1: end up, whether you agree with the decision or not, 148 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 1: we will end up paying as much, if not more 149 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:01,039 Speaker 1: to get out plus by new fairies than we would 150 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 1: have buy simply carrying. 151 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 2: On not at all. There's a couple of issues that 152 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 2: need to be added to that listening. Number one is 153 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 2: that the harbor Master at Marlborough said that we're not 154 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 2: going to let these fairies because they're too wide to 155 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 2: go through the Tory channel. So that's the first thing 156 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 2: that you just actually can't make this stuff up. I mean, 157 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 2: I know people don't like us begging the previous government 158 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 2: and they want to know what we're going to do now, 159 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 2: But can I just say to your listeners, the previous 160 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:27,560 Speaker 2: government wanted to buy fairies that the harbor Master would 161 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 2: not let doc at the place that they were brought 162 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 2: to go to being picked. In number two, they also 163 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:37,360 Speaker 2: hadn't figured out how they were going to get the 164 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 2: trains on and off. They didn't have a price for that, 165 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 2: and it started off at a few hundred million. By 166 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 2: the time the good people of New Zealand voted them 167 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 2: out it was up to three point two billion. And 168 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 2: had they won another another term, I suspect they would 169 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 2: have got to the stage where it would have actually 170 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 2: been cheaper just to build a rail tunnel between the 171 00:07:57,920 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 2: two islands instead of what they. 172 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 1: Having read the paper between Kiwi Rail and the government, 173 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 1: how incompetent is Kiwi Rail to say this is the 174 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 1: final number, grant, don't worry about it, and then go 175 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 1: WAPs it's billions of dollars more. I mean that's on them, 176 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:11,080 Speaker 1: isn't it. 177 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 2: Well, let me just divide it up. I mean, when 178 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 2: it comes to running a train service, I don't think 179 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 2: they're that bad. But that's the thing. It's Kiwi Rail, 180 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 2: it's not Kei. We build a port and once they 181 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 2: once they tried to get into the port building business, 182 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 2: turned out they were pretty incompetent. I mean, if you 183 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 2: want to if you wanted on a one to ten, 184 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:33,560 Speaker 2: I'd probably give you about an eleven because they just 185 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:36,319 Speaker 2: weren't set up to do that. And as I say, 186 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 2: they spent so much money trying to work out how 187 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 2: to get trains to drive off the land across earthquake 188 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 2: prone land onto a boat that you know, like I say, 189 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:47,840 Speaker 2: they should have just started doing a tunnel exactly. 190 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 1: You enjoying this, By the way, this PM not this specifically, 191 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 1: but you know the running the country. 192 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 2: Thing, well, I'm a I'm a libertarian, so one of 193 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 2: the worst things that could happen to me is I 194 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 2: could actually become the government. I just want to point 195 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 2: out I don't actually think I'm running the country. Five 196 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 2: point three million New Zealanders running the country. We're running 197 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 2: the government, and that's just one organization in this country 198 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 2: that I think is far too large. It's up to 199 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:12,679 Speaker 2: everyone else to get on and make the most of 200 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 2: their lives in this beautiful country. 201 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:17,080 Speaker 1: Nice to see you, David Seemore, acting Prime Minister. For 202 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 1: more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to news talks. 203 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:23,800 Speaker 1: It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast 204 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio.