1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: The Huddle with New Zealand Southerby's International Realty, local and 2 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:06,160 Speaker 1: global exposure like no other. 3 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:08,280 Speaker 2: And on the huddle this evening journalists cleared a law 4 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:13,119 Speaker 2: and child fun CEO Josie Bigani held a chord there 5 00:00:13,119 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 2: we go, got the microphones on, so UCUS. It is 6 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:18,320 Speaker 2: a bit unusual, is it not to have a division 7 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:21,119 Speaker 2: like this when it comes to foreign policy, Josie? And 8 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:23,680 Speaker 2: to have a party who's not in government ruling out 9 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 2: something that they initially supported investigating. 10 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's a case of differentiating on as 11 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:33,199 Speaker 3: many things as they can to get cut through. And 12 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 3: I think they're right on this. I think David Parker 13 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 3: gave a good defense of it there. Look, the Trump 14 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 3: election made Aucust really complicated. He's going to do tariff's 15 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 3: on us. Anyway, what are we gaining by joining August 16 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 3: Pillar two? And I think we do kind of know 17 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 3: what it is. It's sharing military know how ie technology 18 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 3: like AI drones and so on, which we're kind of 19 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 3: doing anyway, we do it through five eyes. And for me, 20 00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 3: the big thing is, you know, independent from policy is 21 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 3: probably going to matter to us even more. We're not Australia, 22 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:05,760 Speaker 3: We're certainly not the US. We've got a much bigger 23 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 3: Pacific profile than Australia, and our kind of center of 24 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 3: gravity is really the Pacific, and Pacific nations have been 25 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 3: balancing this kind of global tension between China and US 26 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 3: for a lot longer than we have. Actually, I mean, 27 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 3: they're doing a better job of it in some ways 28 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 3: than us, and I think we have to be really 29 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 3: careful that we maintain that kind of Pacific identity and 30 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 3: that independence. And the other thing is, you know, China 31 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:32,479 Speaker 3: isn't really our enemy at the moment. You know, we've 32 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 3: got a lot more threats to New Zealand at the moment. 33 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:40,360 Speaker 3: We've got you know, Russia expanding, expansionist Russia. We've got 34 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:45,199 Speaker 3: a dysfunctional un where the veto just basically makes everything 35 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:46,959 Speaker 3: kind of hopeless. 36 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 1: You know. 37 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 3: So we've got to look at the whole range of 38 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 3: threats to us and take our own position. 39 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 2: I think that's right, Okay, Clear, it's always a dangerous 40 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 2: game to try and put yourself in the mind of 41 00:01:56,760 --> 00:02:00,120 Speaker 2: Donald Trump. But is there a possibility that not not 42 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 2: joining up to WACAS. Pillar two is the difference between 43 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 2: New Zealand facing tariffs and not well. 44 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:08,799 Speaker 4: That may be a factor. But I having listened to 45 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 4: David Parker, I'd have to say I find myself thinking 46 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:17,640 Speaker 4: we should be pursuing Aucus two to find out what 47 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 4: it could offer. He could not say what might be 48 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 4: in it that he so strongly envehemently disagrees with that 49 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 4: it's completely off the table. And we're at it. We 50 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 4: are now getting a lot of pressure not just from 51 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 4: say the United States, but also Australia to lift our 52 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:36,919 Speaker 4: defense done and we've sunk part of a naval capacity. 53 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 4: Whatever sort of cooperation and assistance we can technically have, 54 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:46,639 Speaker 4: I think we need to keep exploring. We're falling very 55 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 4: far behind in a whole range of areas, and I 56 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 4: think a defense might be one. And I'm not saying 57 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 4: we should join Pillar two to try and sort of 58 00:02:57,000 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 4: escape the wrath of Donald Trump on another front. But 59 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:02,960 Speaker 4: if it happened, who have some positive effect, that's not 60 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:03,760 Speaker 4: a bad thing too. 61 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 2: Well, it is it is on the on The onus 62 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 2: is on the supporters of ORCUST to actually explain what 63 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 2: we get out of this. 64 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:12,320 Speaker 3: Right, But also Jack, Yeah, it's not yes they have, 65 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:14,160 Speaker 3: but also you think they have. 66 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:14,960 Speaker 1: No. 67 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:18,320 Speaker 3: I don't think that we know that I mean, actually, 68 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:21,640 Speaker 3: you know, we know that Pillar one was sharing you know, 69 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 3: nuclear building, nuclear submarine, nuclear powered submarines. It's not nuclear weapons, 70 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:29,120 Speaker 3: nuclear powered submarines, you know, with Australia and the UK 71 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 3: and Britain. But I think the thing about Pillar two 72 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 3: is we look in our region, the Pacific and also 73 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 3: Southeast Asia where they're you know, doing what's called hedging, right, 74 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 3: they're not. They're trading with China. They're looking to get 75 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 3: the sort of back the rules based order of that's 76 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 3: headed by the US. We've got to do the same thing. 77 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 3: We've got to be careful not to sort of shoot 78 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 3: ourselves on the foot on trade. And ironically China and 79 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 3: the US both want to join the TPP or a 80 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 3: few scoll it the cp TPP, the TPP. Yeah, but 81 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 3: they're going further apart on security, so they're kind of 82 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 3: hedging as well, you know. So I think we just 83 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 3: have to be very politic about this, and I think 84 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 3: the Labour's position is right. 85 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, Josie Bigani clear the law our huddle this evening. 86 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 2: We're back in a couple of minutes. 87 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:17,719 Speaker 1: The huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International realty, elevate the 88 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:18,800 Speaker 1: marketing of your home. 89 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:20,839 Speaker 2: You're back with our huddle this evening, clear law and 90 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:25,160 Speaker 2: Josie Bgany so clear. Joe Biden has pardoned Hunter Biden 91 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:27,719 Speaker 2: despite saying a thousand times that he wouldn't do. So 92 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:28,360 Speaker 2: what do you think? 93 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:33,000 Speaker 4: I think it's completely understandable. But I mean it's another 94 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 4: blow to his legacy, you know, which is just going 95 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 4: to be seen as as pretty hopeless and just a 96 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:43,160 Speaker 4: blip in between two what will be and what was 97 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:47,720 Speaker 4: volatile Trump administrations. And I really do sort of fear 98 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 4: for the comfort that Trump will take from this, because 99 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 4: he now, of course from the Supreme Court, has total immunity, 100 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:57,839 Speaker 4: as I presume in fact Biden does now too. But 101 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:01,719 Speaker 4: it just means that effectively the families, there's you know, 102 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:03,240 Speaker 4: if you're going to get into a tip for Tait, 103 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 4: you did this, I did that, then Trump is going 104 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:10,480 Speaker 4: to feel very empowered to partner his own family. I mean, 105 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 4: pardons are used as part of what's an overall clemency 106 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 4: arrangement where presidents will either commuter sentence or grant pardon, 107 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 4: and they used very liberally sometimes. I mean in modern history, 108 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:28,720 Speaker 4: the two presidents have used them least often were the 109 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:32,160 Speaker 4: two the two Bushes, George and his and George JR. 110 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 4: Obama used them very liberally. 111 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:34,679 Speaker 2: Of course. 112 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 1: Yeah. 113 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:38,719 Speaker 2: It wasn't Bill Clinton when he was like twelve hours 114 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 2: before he left office or something. Yeah. Yeah, there is 115 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 2: as a history. 116 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 4: There's a big history of it. The most famous one, 117 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:50,679 Speaker 4: of course was Gerald Ford partning Nixon in nineteen seventy 118 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:51,920 Speaker 4: four over Water Gates. 119 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 2: Which was different. 120 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 4: But you know, this is just another flow to buy it. 121 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:58,280 Speaker 3: It just looks awful, doesn't it. I understand as a mother, 122 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:00,599 Speaker 3: I mean, tell me how to bribe, to sleep with 123 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:02,919 Speaker 3: or do anything to say for children, right, but this 124 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:05,839 Speaker 3: just looks terrible. I mean even Jesus didn't get a 125 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 3: pardon from his dad. 126 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 4: You know. 127 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:10,479 Speaker 3: It's just you can't just change the rule of law 128 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:13,039 Speaker 3: like that. And he's when you campaigned on it. So 129 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:16,800 Speaker 3: I definitely think he's campaigned on honesty, integrity, rule of law. 130 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:21,039 Speaker 3: I definitely think that there's politics behind the onslaught against 131 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 3: Hunter Biden, but he did so the politics got him 132 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:26,599 Speaker 3: to court. He got to court, he was found guilty 133 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:29,800 Speaker 3: by a court that's independent. So either you're saying the 134 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 3: justice system is independent or you're saying it's not. He's 135 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:34,920 Speaker 3: now lost the high ground. The Democrats have lost the 136 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 3: high ground. Trump can not only pardon his own family, 137 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 3: he can he can say, well, I'm going to pardon 138 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 3: the January, the sixth insurrectionists, I'm going to pardon everybody 139 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:46,840 Speaker 3: and anybody in my last administration. And the Democrats now 140 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:48,840 Speaker 3: have no high ground, Starians. 141 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:50,840 Speaker 2: Not much high There's not a lot of high ground. 142 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 4: No ground. 143 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And I'm not sure that what aboutism is 144 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 2: really going to get us, you know, no worst position 145 00:06:57,200 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 2: the MO already and when it comes to the US now, 146 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:01,159 Speaker 2: the UK MASTERSHIF host Greg Wallace has hit back at 147 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 2: allegations of proper behavior, blaming them on quote middle class 148 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:07,800 Speaker 2: women of a certain age and not casting any. 149 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 3: Spirit downwardly mobile middle class women of a certain age. 150 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 3: We're much more resilient than that, aren't we? 151 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 4: Clear from Greg? 152 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 1: Oh? 153 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:18,679 Speaker 3: Yeah, what the hell is he talking about the idea 154 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 3: that we'd be sort of weilting violets. But this is 155 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 3: a guy who was wandering around the studio totally naked 156 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 3: with the socks on his willy. I mean, that is 157 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 3: not good. 158 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 2: Behavior in the modern workplace. That sort of thing you 159 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 2: did that, Jack, I feel very worried. 160 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 3: I wouldn't be offended. I'd be worried for your mental health. 161 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 3: But he's just making this so much more soul than 162 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 3: just yes. 163 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 4: He will lose this job. He will not be employed 164 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 4: by anyone else. 165 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 3: Master Chef host is certainly not serving humble Pie is No, 166 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 3: absolutely not. 167 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 2: Very quickly to Papa. You know how they're charging international 168 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 2: visitors thirty five bucks a visit in two months, They've 169 00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 2: made seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars during in the 170 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:01,680 Speaker 2: shows that we should act she'd be charging international visitors 171 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 2: a little bit more. 172 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:04,560 Speaker 4: I think it's fantastic. I wouldn't charge more. 173 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:06,640 Speaker 2: No, no, no, not more for to Papa, but I mean, 174 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 2: you know, for visiting New Zealand, like we should. We 175 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 2: should be charging for other museums, right, Well, I. 176 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 4: Think you go into a lot of museums in the 177 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:15,559 Speaker 4: world and they're free, but there are a whole bunch 178 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 4: of places where you do pay. And I think we 179 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 4: just need to actually start looking at all revenue streams. 180 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 4: I'd be kind of interested to know what the visitor 181 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 4: figures were and what the pushback was from some people. 182 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 4: But hey, that seems to me to have been a 183 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 4: pretty yes, very I think it's. 184 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 3: A really bad look to charge tourists more than locals. 185 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:37,680 Speaker 3: It just looks like, you know, he's to Papa where 186 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:40,120 Speaker 3: we tell the stories about our nationhood and about who 187 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 3: we are. It's like the Treaty House in White Tangi. 188 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 3: They wanted to charge tourists to come in to see 189 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 3: our founding document. You imagine that in Philadelphia of you 190 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 3: going in to see the founding documents in America. 191 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't. It's free. 192 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 4: There is no there is no central funding for the 193 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 4: Waitang National trus. 194 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's remarkable. I Hey, thank you so much. We're 195 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 2: going to keep moving, but thank you for your time 196 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 2: this morning, this evening, our huddle this evening on Newstalks, 197 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 2: he'd be clear the low and Josie Bagani. It's seven 198 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 2: to six on Newstalks. 199 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:14,079 Speaker 1: E'd be for more from hither Duplessy Alan Drive. Listen 200 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 1: live to news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, 201 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:19,559 Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.