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Speaker 1: The Huddle with New Zealand Southerby's International Realty, local and

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Speaker 1: global exposure like no other.

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Speaker 2: Joining the Huddle tonight Jordan Williams and the Taxpayers Union.

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Speaker 2: Good evening, Jordan, and Allie Jones is here from Red

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Speaker 2: PR Hi Ali, Hi, Ryan, how are you very well?

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Speaker 2: Thank you. Let's talk about the big story of the day,

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Speaker 2: and that is the citizen's arrest. Ali, would you ever

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Speaker 2: if you saw it happening, would you ever get involved?

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Speaker 3: If it depends on the situation. I mean, the problem

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Speaker 3: with me is I'm a fixer and I do things

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Speaker 3: that I shouldn't have to do. Really, I need to

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Speaker 3: just stick to my business and not stickmenos into other

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Speaker 3: people's business. But if I see a woman being abused,

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Speaker 3: if I see a child being abused or hurt, then

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Speaker 3: yes I would. But what worries me about this is

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Speaker 3: that it's a step away from are we going to

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Speaker 3: allow guns or something for you, some sort of weapon

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Speaker 3: for people to protect themselves? And why is it that

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Speaker 3: we as members of the public are going to be

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Speaker 3: in a position where we'll look at a situation and go, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I think that that person stealing something. I will do

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Speaker 3: something and it might not be the right person to approach,

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Speaker 3: You might not be capable of doing something. I just

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Speaker 3: think we should leave the police to do the job

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Speaker 3: and make sure that we've got enough police to do it.

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Speaker 3: I think this is a thin edge of the wedge

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Speaker 3: Rhyan of Bollocks.

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Speaker 4: It's the other way around. The New Zealand wasn't a

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Speaker 4: safe society because of we had a lot of police

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Speaker 4: per people. We're a spread out society. New Zealand was

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Speaker 4: a society because we were based on the old Peel

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Speaker 4: policing principles that the police are the public and the

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Speaker 4: public are the police. The police are you know, the

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Speaker 4: old tradition that the police is simply full time exercising

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Speaker 4: the duties of every citizen. This idea that the police

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Speaker 4: are the praetorian guard and that you shouldn't you should,

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Speaker 4: you know, look away and leave it to the professionals.

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Speaker 4: That's not easy end and I was absolutely astonished that

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Speaker 4: the basin he's yelling. The Employees and Manufacturer Association Alan McDonald,

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Speaker 4: who's someone who I have a lot of regard for,

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Speaker 4: has come out against it on the basis of all

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Speaker 4: health and safety. Your best to leave it, you know,

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Speaker 4: your dairy. Your business might be being ruined because these

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Speaker 4: little thugs come and ramrade you or nicked stuff. But no, no, no, no, no, don't, don't.

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Speaker 4: Don't the profession.

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Speaker 2: That's a problem for the government though, isn't it, because

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Speaker 2: they have addressed this part of the legislation, but they

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Speaker 2: haven't made any and aren't making any changes to the

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Speaker 2: health and safety of yours.

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Speaker 3: Well, look, there was a minister resigned. Didn't a minister

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Speaker 3: resign this week from grabbing someone at the top of

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Speaker 3: the you know, grabbing someone on there.

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Speaker 4: I think they don't think that. I don't think that

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Speaker 4: there's any allegation that the staff or was nicking something

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Speaker 4: from the minister's No.

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Speaker 3: A principle is the same Jordan. I mean, if you

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Speaker 3: if you've got someone who's going to be, you know,

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Speaker 3: resigning from a senior position because they grabbed someone in

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Speaker 3: its arms, what's going to happen when it's not. If

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Speaker 3: you've got a kid nicking something in a dairy and

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Speaker 3: you go up to them and grab their arm, well

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Speaker 3: then what happens you've.

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Speaker 4: Done for a well, I mean the minister was pointing out,

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Speaker 4: you know, currently the law is it's what is it over,

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Speaker 4: it's going to be an offense of over two years,

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Speaker 4: it's going to be at night, et cetera, et cetera.

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Speaker 4: This used to actually rely on common sense being applied

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Speaker 4: by the police in terms of who they prosecute, but

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Speaker 4: in recent decades police have taken this very pious approach

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Speaker 4: of you know, it's the same as again this health

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Speaker 4: and safety lens of we don't celebrate heroes anymore, we

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Speaker 4: prosecute them.

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Speaker 2: I think, Ali to your I think the problem we've

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Speaker 2: got here because I'm I would like to be on

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Speaker 2: your side on this. I would like to think that

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Speaker 2: we don't need to be, you know, arming ourselves and

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Speaker 2: going out there like vigilante mobs. But when you look

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Speaker 2: at the numbers, an eighty five percent increase in retail

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Speaker 2: crime over the last five years, we literally just don't

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Speaker 2: have enough police to one be there at every incident

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Speaker 2: and two to follow up on everyone.

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Speaker 3: So I don't disagree with you, Ryan, but the issue

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Speaker 3: here is you cannot stick aplster on this. You cannot

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Speaker 3: give people the option to look at a situation and

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Speaker 3: then apply the measure of what's reasonable force. I mean,

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Speaker 3: that's the thin edge of the wedge. Yeah, I thought

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Speaker 3: hitting the kid in the back of the head was

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Speaker 3: reasonable force. The issue that you're talking about, as far

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Speaker 3: as the increase in crime, is a multifaceted issue, and

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Speaker 3: this thing about the police that Jordan was talking about

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Speaker 3: it is it's about poverty.

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Speaker 4: It's about that's the MOSTI not true, you know, the

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Speaker 4: connect There's lots of countries around the world which have

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Speaker 4: far more poverty and don't have the crime. One of

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Speaker 4: those issues though surely as culture, and I mean it's

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Speaker 4: very it's brought out by the broken windows theory, and

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Speaker 4: there's lots of you know, what is the norm around here.

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Speaker 4: One of the reasons I believe why our CBDs are

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Speaker 4: so unsafe on Saturday nights is that we're all told

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Speaker 4: and we all look away when we see someone being

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Speaker 4: intimidating or violent. I lived in Germany as a student

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Speaker 4: and you know, even look at Oktoberfest. The only fights

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Speaker 4: you set up Toberfest that between Australians, which we can

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Speaker 4: we can all support because the Germans are far more

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Speaker 4: willing to step in and say, you know, don't.

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Speaker 2: Be breaking, don't be a doorm.

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Speaker 4: We lost that culture here and this is on the

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Speaker 4: same continuance about society. We want a society will people

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Speaker 4: we interfere with someone's getting we.

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Speaker 2: Have to part with her for a second. We've got

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Speaker 2: to take this great. Jordan Williams Taxpayers and Allie Jones

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Speaker 2: Red pr on the Huddle.

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Speaker 1: The Huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty, Elevate the

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Speaker 1: marketing of your home news.

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Speaker 2: Talk to be. Jordan Williams and Allie Jones on the Huddle.

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Speaker 2: It's twelve minutes away from six. Great to have your

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Speaker 2: company this evening. Chloe Swarbrick has taken it to the

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Speaker 2: right wing in her State of the Planet address in

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Speaker 2: Auckland today to Party Faithful. She says the right wing

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Speaker 2: is responsible for basically destroyed not only destroying the planet,

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Speaker 2: but also impoverishing many and particularly for targeting, she said, migrants,

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Speaker 2: the Rainbow community and indigenous people. That's right. I was

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Speaker 2: trying to remember all three. Ellie, did you have a

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Speaker 2: look at what Chloe had to say and what did

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Speaker 2: you make of it?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: I haven't had a look at the video, but I'm

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Speaker 3: kind of over this, to be honest, and I find

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Speaker 3: it tedious and I find it grandstanding. I think that

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Speaker 3: there are problems on both sides, at both ends of

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Speaker 3: the political spectrum, and I think we've got to stop

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Speaker 3: having this finger pointing going on from both the left

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Speaker 3: and the right. I don't believe that, you know, she

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Speaker 3: says the chosen targets are indigenous people. I think the

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Speaker 3: three you mentioned were the gay community, migrants, and tin Atafena.

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Speaker 3: Well that's bollocks for a start, But I also see

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Speaker 3: a lot of this finger pointing going on on the

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Speaker 3: right as well. I'm all for the center, Jordan. I

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Speaker 3: don't know how you feel about that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's something that can tell me a lot. The

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Speaker 4: polarization and politics of it's you're not just wrong, you're bad,

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Speaker 4: or you're morally flawed. I disagree. I think that the

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Speaker 4: it is worse on the left, and I think that

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Speaker 4: intellectually it's easier to come be on the conservative side

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Speaker 4: of politics and intellectually appreciate where the left is coming from,

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Speaker 4: and sometimes perhaps that's more difficult.

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Speaker 3: What do you think it's worse on the left. What

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Speaker 3: makes you say that?

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Speaker 4: Because I think that you know, I mean it. I

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Speaker 4: think it's easier if you're a believer in markets and

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Speaker 4: open economies to appreciate intellectually why socialism is an attractive idea.

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Speaker 4: I think that if you're on that side of politics,

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Speaker 4: it can be more difficult or it's counterintuitive sometimes.

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Speaker 2: Are you saying they're dumber than you?

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Speaker 4: No, I'm not saying that that open markets and market

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Speaker 4: based economy you do have to think in more depth

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Speaker 4: around second order effects. That's true, because.

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Speaker 3: I don't know. That's not no, it's not right, because

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Speaker 3: I think can I just interrupt for a second, okay,

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Speaker 3: because I think one of the key things here is,

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Speaker 3: and this is what frustrates me about the right, is

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Speaker 3: that we often talk about GDP, we talk about growth,

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Speaker 3: and I'm sure that you are far more up with

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Speaker 3: that than I am. But there are actually nuances in

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Speaker 3: those black and white market economy arguments and understandings, and

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Speaker 3: a lot of that is humanity. And that's where some

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Speaker 3: of the act comes in, right.

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Speaker 4: And that's because you were suggesting that the reason I'm

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Speaker 4: in politics is different to the reason that Chloe Swarbrooks

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Speaker 4: and politics I'm saying.

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Speaker 3: And white.

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Speaker 4: Do you know the way we want to get there

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Speaker 4: is very different.

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Speaker 2: But everyone wants the same thing, which is kids out

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Speaker 2: of poverty. Do you know what The problem is, I

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Speaker 2: think the problem is between the left and the right

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Speaker 2: is that they're completely different personality types, speaking completely different languages.

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Speaker 2: So you're talking about you know, markets and growth and

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Speaker 2: et cetera, and the others are perhaps more impaths on

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Speaker 2: the other side, who are more who are more in

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Speaker 2: tune with talking about, you know, getting kids out of poverty.

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Speaker 2: All this stuff. Doesn't mean you don't care about it,

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Speaker 2: but the way you also see, you.

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Speaker 3: See arrogance and dismissal on both sides so wrong.

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Speaker 4: That's called a politician. We had a incident yesterday. One

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Speaker 4: of our staff, student interns and some volunteers were at

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Speaker 4: clubs Day and got absolutely barreled up by to the

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Speaker 4: extent that they packed up the stall early, and the

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Speaker 4: MP subsequently apologized to my staff. But it was a

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Speaker 4: Green Party MP absolutely going banana, who.

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Speaker 2: Was saying, don't tell me it.

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Speaker 4: Was it's an MP in Wellington who's pre who has

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Speaker 4: some form in this area. But no, no, that there

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Speaker 4: was an apology then except that, but the the way

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Speaker 4: that it was, what she was saying about, you know,

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Speaker 4: paid shills and accusations about that were just totally bananas

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Speaker 4: about funding and things like.

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Speaker 2: That in person.

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Speaker 4: It was in person she was literally yelling at at

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Speaker 4: at Taxpayers Union. It was so as I say, she

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Speaker 4: apologized except that we can we can move on.

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Speaker 3: But persons though you can't use We'll hang on this.

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Speaker 4: There does seem to be a bit of a pattern

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Speaker 4: in the Greens of a sort of righteousness, piousness. This particular,

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Speaker 4: this wasn't Chloe, but it was a particularly MP who

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Speaker 4: has barreled up members of the public before it's on

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Speaker 4: the public record. I do think that when the Greens

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Speaker 4: and they have talked about the polarization of politics, neaning

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Speaker 4: to turn it down, I would suggest that they should

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Speaker 4: look in.

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Speaker 2: The look in the mirror. All right, we have to

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Speaker 2: leave it there. Guys, Jordan Williams, the Taxpayer Union and

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Speaker 2: Allie Jones read pr on the Huddle tonight.

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Speaker 1: For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive. Listen live to

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Speaker 1: news Talks it'd be from four weekdays, or follow the

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