1 00:00:09,093 --> 00:00:12,853 Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from Newstalks be follow this 2 00:00:13,053 --> 00:00:16,173 Speaker 1: and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio. 3 00:00:16,733 --> 00:00:19,133 Speaker 2: So a leading economists sees it's galling to see the 4 00:00:19,133 --> 00:00:22,973 Speaker 2: government planning a rates cap for councils when it is 5 00:00:23,012 --> 00:00:25,813 Speaker 2: imposing no restraints on its own taxes. That man is 6 00:00:25,853 --> 00:00:29,893 Speaker 2: Brad Olson, Infometric CEO and chief economist, and he joins us. Now, Brad, 7 00:00:29,933 --> 00:00:31,453 Speaker 2: get a good afternoon book team. 8 00:00:32,173 --> 00:00:34,933 Speaker 3: What core economic problem do you see in the universal 9 00:00:34,973 --> 00:00:37,853 Speaker 3: two to four per cent rates cap? And is it 10 00:00:37,933 --> 00:00:41,092 Speaker 3: hypocritical of central government to cap rates while not capping 11 00:00:41,173 --> 00:00:41,893 Speaker 3: tax rises? 12 00:00:42,812 --> 00:00:45,612 Speaker 4: Well, I certainly think it's hypocritical. The worry is well, 13 00:00:45,653 --> 00:00:48,053 Speaker 4: in a sense is that And look, let's be very 14 00:00:48,053 --> 00:00:50,532 Speaker 4: clear at the outset. I think that the rates increases 15 00:00:50,533 --> 00:00:52,373 Speaker 4: you've seen in the last couple of years have been 16 00:00:52,412 --> 00:00:55,453 Speaker 4: incredibly hard for people to stomach, and we're desperately need 17 00:00:55,453 --> 00:00:57,972 Speaker 4: to get them under control. But I'm worried that if 18 00:00:58,013 --> 00:01:01,013 Speaker 4: you impose this very artificial cap that doesn't recognize it 19 00:01:01,013 --> 00:01:03,133 Speaker 4: as a whole lot of differences in what councils do 20 00:01:03,253 --> 00:01:05,572 Speaker 4: in the types of inflation that they suffer, You're going 21 00:01:05,653 --> 00:01:07,253 Speaker 4: to get back to where Wellington was a couple of 22 00:01:07,333 --> 00:01:09,933 Speaker 4: years ago, where we don't invest enough in the right stuff. 23 00:01:10,093 --> 00:01:11,893 Speaker 4: All of a sudden, you've either got pooh running down 24 00:01:11,893 --> 00:01:13,812 Speaker 4: the streets, you've got roads that are broken up, you've 25 00:01:13,813 --> 00:01:16,292 Speaker 4: got rubbish that doesn't get picked up. I mean, that's 26 00:01:16,292 --> 00:01:18,413 Speaker 4: sort of what some councils around the country are saying 27 00:01:18,453 --> 00:01:21,293 Speaker 4: if they aren't able to sort of recover those costs 28 00:01:21,292 --> 00:01:23,973 Speaker 4: which have been increasing faster than households than they are 29 00:01:24,013 --> 00:01:27,333 Speaker 4: in a compromised position. But the point around consistency, that's 30 00:01:27,333 --> 00:01:28,773 Speaker 4: the one that gets to me. Like, we spend a 31 00:01:28,773 --> 00:01:30,853 Speaker 4: lot of time talking about rates, and I get it 32 00:01:30,853 --> 00:01:33,493 Speaker 4: it's important, but you know, when you're spending about ten 33 00:01:33,533 --> 00:01:35,973 Speaker 4: times more on taxes a year and no one ever 34 00:01:36,053 --> 00:01:38,253 Speaker 4: sends you a bill for that. Most people couldn't name 35 00:01:38,292 --> 00:01:41,173 Speaker 4: their taxes. Yet when they've increased time and time again, 36 00:01:41,212 --> 00:01:43,853 Speaker 4: you're giving more money to the government and they're not taxing, 37 00:01:44,453 --> 00:01:47,933 Speaker 4: you know, capping taxes anytime soon. It seems to be 38 00:01:47,973 --> 00:01:49,853 Speaker 4: that we're spending a lot of time on ten percent 39 00:01:49,893 --> 00:01:53,172 Speaker 4: of the money and we're completely fine with the fairly 40 00:01:53,253 --> 00:01:55,612 Speaker 4: large increases in tax on the other ninety percent. 41 00:01:56,373 --> 00:01:58,853 Speaker 3: So in for Metrix is calculated the average tax bill 42 00:01:58,893 --> 00:02:02,093 Speaker 3: of a household with two median income earners earning seventy 43 00:02:02,133 --> 00:02:04,973 Speaker 3: one thousand dollars a year seventy two thousand dollars basically 44 00:02:05,013 --> 00:02:07,973 Speaker 3: each before tax, so they would pay thirty nine thousand 45 00:02:08,013 --> 00:02:11,613 Speaker 3: dollars to the government around thirteen seven and fifteen income 46 00:02:11,653 --> 00:02:16,653 Speaker 3: tax per person plus eleven thousand, six hundred GST, whereas 47 00:02:16,693 --> 00:02:20,093 Speaker 3: about three thy eight hundred in rates. There's more tax 48 00:02:20,133 --> 00:02:22,653 Speaker 3: than that, though, isn't there There's more tax from the 49 00:02:22,693 --> 00:02:25,853 Speaker 3: government than just income tax and GST. 50 00:02:27,173 --> 00:02:29,373 Speaker 4: Yes, I mean there's a whole lot of other things. 51 00:02:29,453 --> 00:02:31,813 Speaker 4: Is of course your your corporate tax, which is a 52 00:02:31,853 --> 00:02:35,053 Speaker 4: tax on profits that businesses are making. There's also a 53 00:02:35,093 --> 00:02:37,733 Speaker 4: lot of other let's call them government revenue. They might 54 00:02:37,773 --> 00:02:40,653 Speaker 4: not strictly be taxes, but they almost are. You know, 55 00:02:40,733 --> 00:02:43,493 Speaker 4: all of the money that's collected in terms of fuel 56 00:02:43,733 --> 00:02:46,412 Speaker 4: taxes or you know, fuel excise duty, all the other 57 00:02:46,493 --> 00:02:48,813 Speaker 4: sort of you know, various fees that you have to pay. 58 00:02:48,813 --> 00:02:51,373 Speaker 4: You've got a registration for your car, You've got a 59 00:02:51,413 --> 00:02:53,333 Speaker 4: whole lot of other service fees that you have to pay. 60 00:02:53,373 --> 00:02:57,133 Speaker 4: So the point there was less you know around the 61 00:02:57,133 --> 00:02:59,692 Speaker 4: fact that you know, rates aren't nothing. Rates are still important, 62 00:02:59,933 --> 00:03:02,813 Speaker 4: but by goodness, you know, at thirty nine K a 63 00:03:02,933 --> 00:03:05,733 Speaker 4: year in taxes that you're paying the amount of effort 64 00:03:05,813 --> 00:03:08,973 Speaker 4: and time that we spend on rates compared Texas, Like, 65 00:03:09,013 --> 00:03:11,173 Speaker 4: I mean, let's be real. You think about, you know, 66 00:03:11,213 --> 00:03:14,013 Speaker 4: an average council who every year has to spend probably 67 00:03:14,053 --> 00:03:16,333 Speaker 4: one hundred thousand dollars or so to go out to 68 00:03:16,373 --> 00:03:18,972 Speaker 4: the community consult on what the plan is for spending 69 00:03:19,093 --> 00:03:22,292 Speaker 4: that three thousand, eight hundred dollars per average household. They've 70 00:03:22,293 --> 00:03:24,532 Speaker 4: got to go through all the line items. They've got 71 00:03:24,532 --> 00:03:26,572 Speaker 4: to decide if you know, roade x y Z gets 72 00:03:26,573 --> 00:03:29,773 Speaker 4: some potholes filled or that. Whereas I don't know about 73 00:03:29,813 --> 00:03:32,053 Speaker 4: you guys, and the government doesn't normally ask me every 74 00:03:32,133 --> 00:03:34,692 Speaker 4: year if I'm happy to spend whatever they are doing 75 00:03:34,693 --> 00:03:37,293 Speaker 4: in the budget, like it just happens, It gets passed 76 00:03:37,293 --> 00:03:39,013 Speaker 4: in the House and I just sort of got to 77 00:03:39,053 --> 00:03:41,453 Speaker 4: take it, and that's fine. But I'm sort of like, look, 78 00:03:41,493 --> 00:03:43,533 Speaker 4: if it's good enough to try and cap what local 79 00:03:43,573 --> 00:03:47,053 Speaker 4: government's doing, surely if central government was worried about wasteful 80 00:03:47,093 --> 00:03:49,693 Speaker 4: spending and everything else like it says, it would equally 81 00:03:49,813 --> 00:03:52,933 Speaker 4: apply that lens to itself. What's good for local government 82 00:03:52,973 --> 00:03:55,093 Speaker 4: surely got to be good enough for government itself. 83 00:03:55,533 --> 00:03:58,293 Speaker 3: But that three thy eight hundred to councils isn't the 84 00:03:58,373 --> 00:03:59,933 Speaker 3: end of it either, though, is it? Because you know, 85 00:03:59,973 --> 00:04:02,733 Speaker 3: I just had to register my dog again, I've got 86 00:04:02,733 --> 00:04:06,133 Speaker 3: a bunch of consents that I'm having to get sorted 87 00:04:06,213 --> 00:04:08,933 Speaker 3: out with the council for a renovation nor my house, 88 00:04:08,973 --> 00:04:11,893 Speaker 3: so that they're picking us outside of their rates as well, 89 00:04:11,933 --> 00:04:12,653 Speaker 3: aren't they, Brett? 90 00:04:13,413 --> 00:04:14,213 Speaker 1: They are, But I. 91 00:04:14,173 --> 00:04:16,653 Speaker 4: Can tell you right now having run those figures, that 92 00:04:16,693 --> 00:04:18,532 Speaker 4: they are not nearly as much as still that bigger 93 00:04:18,573 --> 00:04:20,693 Speaker 4: tax bill. But yes, you're right. The difficulty in the 94 00:04:20,733 --> 00:04:22,892 Speaker 4: challenge that we often find in the local government space, 95 00:04:23,053 --> 00:04:25,213 Speaker 4: and again having looked at this in detail, is that 96 00:04:25,293 --> 00:04:28,733 Speaker 4: a lot of those what we call user charges that 97 00:04:28,773 --> 00:04:31,293 Speaker 4: you have, you know, let's call it, you know, your rubbish, 98 00:04:31,293 --> 00:04:33,813 Speaker 4: your dog fee, your alcohol license if you're trying to 99 00:04:33,813 --> 00:04:36,453 Speaker 4: set up a bar or a pub or something, not 100 00:04:36,613 --> 00:04:38,893 Speaker 4: all of those are full cost recovery. So it might 101 00:04:38,933 --> 00:04:41,013 Speaker 4: well cost you know, a council, I don't know, let's 102 00:04:41,013 --> 00:04:43,733 Speaker 4: say one thousand dollars for you know, doing all of 103 00:04:43,733 --> 00:04:46,813 Speaker 4: the alcohol processing for a new bar. But the license 104 00:04:46,853 --> 00:04:49,773 Speaker 4: fee on that might only be say five six hundred dollars, 105 00:04:49,773 --> 00:04:52,253 Speaker 4: and that's because the rest of the money comes from 106 00:04:52,253 --> 00:04:55,213 Speaker 4: general rates. The idea there being that, hey, it's probably 107 00:04:55,253 --> 00:04:57,693 Speaker 4: good for the community to have these different amenities, to have, 108 00:04:57,733 --> 00:04:59,853 Speaker 4: you know, good order around dogs, to have a good 109 00:04:59,933 --> 00:05:01,813 Speaker 4: order around alcohol, and so there's a little bit of 110 00:05:01,853 --> 00:05:03,893 Speaker 4: sort of everyone has to pitch in, which is where 111 00:05:03,893 --> 00:05:06,813 Speaker 4: the rates money comes from. But again, I guess that 112 00:05:07,173 --> 00:05:09,213 Speaker 4: you've looked at you've probably and some of the stories 113 00:05:09,333 --> 00:05:12,213 Speaker 4: recently around the changes that are coming from rates capping 114 00:05:12,253 --> 00:05:14,933 Speaker 4: and what it might mean. There are genuinely some councils 115 00:05:14,933 --> 00:05:17,213 Speaker 4: now that are going, well, look, we'd have to close 116 00:05:17,253 --> 00:05:19,373 Speaker 4: the polls entirely, or we'd just not be able to 117 00:05:19,373 --> 00:05:21,373 Speaker 4: register dogs for an entire year, or we wouldn't be 118 00:05:21,413 --> 00:05:24,533 Speaker 4: able to do these building consents like the challenge I 119 00:05:24,573 --> 00:05:27,133 Speaker 4: see with the rates capping, and potentially, look, this might 120 00:05:27,133 --> 00:05:30,453 Speaker 4: be a silver lining. Communities are going to have to say, look, yes, 121 00:05:30,453 --> 00:05:32,693 Speaker 4: we're going to get lower rates increases, but we're also 122 00:05:32,773 --> 00:05:34,253 Speaker 4: not going to get nearly as much as what we 123 00:05:34,333 --> 00:05:37,173 Speaker 4: got before from our council. At some point something's got 124 00:05:37,213 --> 00:05:39,213 Speaker 4: to give, you know, Is it that your booms don't 125 00:05:39,213 --> 00:05:41,373 Speaker 4: get mode? Is that your dog doesn't get registered. What 126 00:05:41,533 --> 00:05:42,773 Speaker 4: might have people willing to give. 127 00:05:42,693 --> 00:05:43,813 Speaker 3: Up our booms don't get mode? 128 00:05:43,933 --> 00:05:46,453 Speaker 2: Yeah, burn pride. People should do that themselves. But it's 129 00:05:46,493 --> 00:05:49,373 Speaker 2: a fair point, Brad, And you mentioned here that and 130 00:05:49,413 --> 00:05:51,853 Speaker 2: you're quite right that central government over time has continued 131 00:05:51,893 --> 00:05:54,173 Speaker 2: to push more and more on to local government to 132 00:05:54,413 --> 00:05:56,533 Speaker 2: make them responsible for those things. I mean, is that 133 00:05:56,573 --> 00:05:59,413 Speaker 2: a cheeky way of government making counsels the villain here 134 00:05:59,453 --> 00:06:02,053 Speaker 2: that they say, right now, you're responsibility to do that. 135 00:06:02,133 --> 00:06:03,253 Speaker 2: We don't know how you're going to pay for it, 136 00:06:03,293 --> 00:06:05,773 Speaker 2: probably through rates, and your residents will hate you for that, 137 00:06:05,973 --> 00:06:07,813 Speaker 2: but it's your problem now. So it's kind of a 138 00:06:07,813 --> 00:06:10,093 Speaker 2: bit of a of an underhanded way for the central 139 00:06:10,133 --> 00:06:13,933 Speaker 2: government to escape that fury from texpayers. 140 00:06:14,693 --> 00:06:16,013 Speaker 4: It does seem to be a little bit of a 141 00:06:16,133 --> 00:06:18,093 Speaker 4: you know, good good luck, off you go sort of 142 00:06:18,133 --> 00:06:20,693 Speaker 4: message again. I mean, you look at where the where 143 00:06:20,733 --> 00:06:22,893 Speaker 4: do you go when there are challenges in the local community. 144 00:06:22,933 --> 00:06:25,293 Speaker 4: It's pretty easy to go and you know, talk to 145 00:06:25,293 --> 00:06:27,853 Speaker 4: your mayor or complain to your mayor or counselor not 146 00:06:28,053 --> 00:06:30,013 Speaker 4: often do you go, you know what, I've got real 147 00:06:30,053 --> 00:06:31,733 Speaker 4: issues with my consent, I'm going to go to my 148 00:06:31,893 --> 00:06:34,653 Speaker 4: MP to start with. So look, it is I think 149 00:06:34,693 --> 00:06:36,973 Speaker 4: a bit more of a focus on councils. But here's 150 00:06:37,013 --> 00:06:39,013 Speaker 4: the real kicker for me is that for all the 151 00:06:39,093 --> 00:06:41,573 Speaker 4: talk of the rates capping and some of it's come through, 152 00:06:41,853 --> 00:06:44,213 Speaker 4: of course that doesn't affect central government at all because 153 00:06:44,213 --> 00:06:46,133 Speaker 4: it doesn't pay rates on most of the land that 154 00:06:46,213 --> 00:06:48,333 Speaker 4: it has. So it's sort of saying, well, look off 155 00:06:48,373 --> 00:06:49,973 Speaker 4: you go, you go, and you know, have to have 156 00:06:50,013 --> 00:06:53,293 Speaker 4: this rates capping discussion with your community and you're not 157 00:06:53,333 --> 00:06:55,293 Speaker 4: going to have nearly as much. You're going to have 158 00:06:55,333 --> 00:06:57,453 Speaker 4: no additional money from central government for all of these 159 00:06:57,573 --> 00:06:59,933 Speaker 4: RMA changes and similar that are coming through, all of 160 00:06:59,933 --> 00:07:02,893 Speaker 4: the reorganization plans that have got to be established. Someone's 161 00:07:02,893 --> 00:07:05,253 Speaker 4: got to pay for that time. But also we're going 162 00:07:05,293 --> 00:07:07,213 Speaker 4: to limit how much you can earn from your community, 163 00:07:07,213 --> 00:07:09,893 Speaker 4: which again I underst and the cost living pressures. But 164 00:07:09,933 --> 00:07:11,973 Speaker 4: also we're not going to pay rates to central government. 165 00:07:12,013 --> 00:07:14,293 Speaker 4: I mean very much does seem to be will you 166 00:07:14,573 --> 00:07:16,573 Speaker 4: do more with less? And also we're not willing to 167 00:07:16,613 --> 00:07:19,973 Speaker 4: pitch anything ourselves. There's no money that comes from central 168 00:07:19,973 --> 00:07:21,693 Speaker 4: government to pay for a lot of this stuff, which 169 00:07:21,973 --> 00:07:24,133 Speaker 4: all I'm saying is that, look, this might be an 170 00:07:24,133 --> 00:07:27,373 Speaker 4: important change that comes through with rates camping, but by goodness, 171 00:07:27,413 --> 00:07:30,253 Speaker 4: the overseas evidence really does suggest it. In time, you 172 00:07:30,333 --> 00:07:33,493 Speaker 4: start to see some pretty wicked challenges where counselors are saying, look, 173 00:07:33,693 --> 00:07:35,693 Speaker 4: I don't have enough money for that bridge, I don't 174 00:07:35,693 --> 00:07:37,933 Speaker 4: have enough money for this project. Now what are we 175 00:07:37,973 --> 00:07:40,293 Speaker 4: giving up because some stuff is going to start to crumble. 176 00:07:40,453 --> 00:07:42,613 Speaker 3: Well, they can give up their alcohol licensing work if 177 00:07:42,653 --> 00:07:45,733 Speaker 3: you ask me. We're talking to informentric's chief economist Brad Olsen. 178 00:07:46,093 --> 00:07:48,813 Speaker 3: But surely we should be asking all forms of governments 179 00:07:48,853 --> 00:07:52,093 Speaker 3: to live within government, to live within their means like 180 00:07:52,213 --> 00:07:55,733 Speaker 3: we have to do as citizens exactly. 181 00:07:55,813 --> 00:07:58,693 Speaker 4: And this is why next week the Finance Minister will 182 00:07:59,053 --> 00:08:01,613 Speaker 4: provide an update alongside the Treasury with the half yearly 183 00:08:01,693 --> 00:08:04,133 Speaker 4: Economic and Fiscal Update, telling us sort of how the 184 00:08:04,133 --> 00:08:07,093 Speaker 4: government finances are at a central level. Of course, the 185 00:08:07,173 --> 00:08:09,773 Speaker 4: challenge there is that when you look at spending activity 186 00:08:09,813 --> 00:08:12,813 Speaker 4: by central government compared to how much that earning, we're 187 00:08:12,813 --> 00:08:14,533 Speaker 4: still going to be in deficit. We're still going to 188 00:08:14,573 --> 00:08:16,853 Speaker 4: as a government be spending more money than we're earning 189 00:08:16,853 --> 00:08:19,573 Speaker 4: out until about twenty thirty or so. So put it 190 00:08:19,573 --> 00:08:22,213 Speaker 4: this way, if you've got concerns about things at the moment, 191 00:08:22,373 --> 00:08:25,693 Speaker 4: you've got a few options. Either you raise taxes or rates, 192 00:08:25,733 --> 00:08:28,453 Speaker 4: depending on if you're a council or a government, you 193 00:08:28,493 --> 00:08:31,213 Speaker 4: stop spending quite as much, or you load that up 194 00:08:31,213 --> 00:08:34,053 Speaker 4: on debt. At the moment, central government is loading up 195 00:08:34,053 --> 00:08:36,653 Speaker 4: on debts relative to the other two. Yes, there's been 196 00:08:36,693 --> 00:08:41,252 Speaker 4: spending cutbacks and similar there haven't been changes in taxes effectively, 197 00:08:41,492 --> 00:08:43,933 Speaker 4: though again there's a real challenge here over how you 198 00:08:43,933 --> 00:08:46,453 Speaker 4: pay for this stuff. Here's one step that always blows 199 00:08:46,492 --> 00:08:48,892 Speaker 4: my mind on just how challenging it is for some 200 00:08:48,973 --> 00:08:53,293 Speaker 4: of the pressures that are in the infrastructure space. We 201 00:08:53,333 --> 00:08:55,573 Speaker 4: know that household inflation has gone up a lot over time. 202 00:08:55,653 --> 00:08:58,053 Speaker 4: We talk about Mins and butter quite a bit, sort 203 00:08:58,053 --> 00:09:01,412 Speaker 4: of cumulative household inflations up around thirty percent or so 204 00:09:01,573 --> 00:09:04,253 Speaker 4: over the last five years. You look at, though, some 205 00:09:04,293 --> 00:09:06,213 Speaker 4: of the stuff that councils spend on. If you want 206 00:09:06,213 --> 00:09:09,093 Speaker 4: to build a bridge today, it's cost you've forty percent 207 00:09:09,173 --> 00:09:12,413 Speaker 4: more than what it was back in twenty nineteen. Same bridge, 208 00:09:12,573 --> 00:09:15,533 Speaker 4: same concrete, same steel, and everything else, but now costing 209 00:09:15,573 --> 00:09:18,293 Speaker 4: forty percent more. It's those sort of bigger gains over 210 00:09:18,333 --> 00:09:20,693 Speaker 4: time that do start to hit just how much money 211 00:09:20,732 --> 00:09:23,853 Speaker 4: central government local government rather is having to spend. They're 212 00:09:23,852 --> 00:09:26,732 Speaker 4: having to put a lot of money into big infrastructure projects, 213 00:09:26,973 --> 00:09:29,093 Speaker 4: and either that has to be paid for from rates 214 00:09:29,213 --> 00:09:31,213 Speaker 4: or from debt, and what do you use how do 215 00:09:31,252 --> 00:09:33,492 Speaker 4: you repay the debt? Of course that comes from rates 216 00:09:33,492 --> 00:09:35,732 Speaker 4: money eventually, So it is an awful cycle, but it 217 00:09:35,773 --> 00:09:38,892 Speaker 4: is a real challenge around that infrastructure investment over time. 218 00:09:39,252 --> 00:09:42,333 Speaker 3: So what alternative funding model would actually work? Because we 219 00:09:42,413 --> 00:09:46,333 Speaker 3: can't have councils just up in rates fifteen percent a 220 00:09:46,413 --> 00:09:48,813 Speaker 3: year so they can do all their vanity projects or 221 00:09:49,252 --> 00:09:53,213 Speaker 3: ideologically driven projects that annoy all of us. There has 222 00:09:53,252 --> 00:09:55,773 Speaker 3: to be some limit to what they're putting up and 223 00:09:55,813 --> 00:09:58,012 Speaker 3: some efficiency needs to come in right. 224 00:09:58,852 --> 00:10:00,933 Speaker 4: Certainly, And I think on the efficiency point, I mean 225 00:10:00,973 --> 00:10:02,733 Speaker 4: the two biggest areas where I think you're going to 226 00:10:02,732 --> 00:10:05,052 Speaker 4: see some gains over time are around the likes of 227 00:10:05,093 --> 00:10:10,013 Speaker 4: transport and water infrastructure. The councils combine about sixty percent 228 00:10:10,252 --> 00:10:13,172 Speaker 4: of the total increase in spending over the last three 229 00:10:13,252 --> 00:10:15,813 Speaker 4: to four years has been in those two categories alone. 230 00:10:15,892 --> 00:10:17,573 Speaker 4: So if you do something on that, if you stop 231 00:10:17,612 --> 00:10:20,213 Speaker 4: having these massive cost blowouts on projects. If you can 232 00:10:20,252 --> 00:10:23,173 Speaker 4: get some of the consenting delays moved along, maybe if 233 00:10:23,213 --> 00:10:25,093 Speaker 4: you don't have to put out so many road cones, 234 00:10:26,053 --> 00:10:27,973 Speaker 4: if a bit more of this work is streamlined. So 235 00:10:28,012 --> 00:10:30,453 Speaker 4: instead of every council saying, you know what, I'm going 236 00:10:30,533 --> 00:10:32,732 Speaker 4: to go and try and upgrade my wastewater treatment plant 237 00:10:32,732 --> 00:10:35,612 Speaker 4: when all the other sixty councils around the country are 238 00:10:35,653 --> 00:10:37,653 Speaker 4: doing so, what does that generally do to the cost 239 00:10:37,653 --> 00:10:40,012 Speaker 4: of things? Will that pushes them up? So a lot 240 00:10:40,012 --> 00:10:42,053 Speaker 4: of that streamlining, a lot of that sort of planning 241 00:10:42,093 --> 00:10:44,772 Speaker 4: could be done better, I think though as well. There 242 00:10:44,813 --> 00:10:49,292 Speaker 4: are things that more practically could support councils. Either local 243 00:10:49,333 --> 00:10:52,252 Speaker 4: government sorry, central government could pay local government for the 244 00:10:52,333 --> 00:10:54,493 Speaker 4: land that it owns, pay rates on the stuff like 245 00:10:54,653 --> 00:10:57,372 Speaker 4: everyone else does. Or you could see the likes of 246 00:10:57,453 --> 00:11:01,412 Speaker 4: GST on rates or GST on building consents for example, 247 00:11:01,933 --> 00:11:04,613 Speaker 4: that go back to local government at the moment. Again, 248 00:11:04,653 --> 00:11:07,573 Speaker 4: you pay your local council for a building consent, and 249 00:11:07,612 --> 00:11:09,892 Speaker 4: fifteen percent on top of that then goes to central 250 00:11:09,892 --> 00:11:12,093 Speaker 4: government just into the general slush fund that gets spent 251 00:11:12,173 --> 00:11:15,013 Speaker 4: on whatever. If you instead put that back to local councils, 252 00:11:15,012 --> 00:11:16,893 Speaker 4: that would start to make a bit of a difference 253 00:11:17,252 --> 00:11:19,252 Speaker 4: in terms of how much money that have. I think 254 00:11:19,293 --> 00:11:21,253 Speaker 4: we calculated at one point there'd be something like a 255 00:11:21,293 --> 00:11:24,252 Speaker 4: billion dollars, so that would require central government to give 256 00:11:24,333 --> 00:11:26,493 Speaker 4: up something. But again, if we're talking about waste and 257 00:11:26,533 --> 00:11:30,173 Speaker 4: pressures in government in general, I think there's still efficiencies 258 00:11:30,213 --> 00:11:32,852 Speaker 4: to be made across the board. Brad. 259 00:11:32,933 --> 00:11:35,852 Speaker 2: It's a compelling argument and the text machine is absolutely 260 00:11:35,852 --> 00:11:38,093 Speaker 2: blowing up. So we're looking forward to what our listeners 261 00:11:38,093 --> 00:11:40,412 Speaker 2: have to say. But really appreciate you coming on mate, hey, 262 00:11:40,413 --> 00:11:41,933 Speaker 2: and if we don't catch up before the end of 263 00:11:41,933 --> 00:11:44,133 Speaker 2: the year, very Merry Christmas to you, mate. Appreciate you 264 00:11:44,213 --> 00:11:45,973 Speaker 2: coming on various times this year. 265 00:11:46,732 --> 00:11:48,453 Speaker 4: Same to you and looking forward to catching up in 266 00:11:48,453 --> 00:11:49,252 Speaker 4: twenty twenty six. 267 00:11:49,453 --> 00:11:52,133 Speaker 2: Go well, that is Brad Olsen, chief economist and CEO 268 00:11:52,213 --> 00:11:53,132 Speaker 2: of Infometrics. 269 00:11:53,732 --> 00:11:56,693 Speaker 1: For more from News talks'd be listen live on air 270 00:11:56,852 --> 00:11:59,573 Speaker 1: or online and keep our shows with you wherever you 271 00:11:59,653 --> 00:12:02,053 Speaker 1: go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio.