1
00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:04,760
Speaker 1: The huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty Unique Homes

2
00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:06,920
Speaker 1: Uniquely for you with us.

3
00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:09,479
Speaker 2: This evening we have Josephcganey, CEO at Child Fund and

4
00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:11,840
Speaker 2: Trisherson at Sherson Willis pr Hello.

5
00:00:11,680 --> 00:00:13,720
Speaker 3: You too, Hello, Hello, Hello Josie.

6
00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:15,880
Speaker 2: Do we need to recognize the state of Palestine.

7
00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:19,080
Speaker 3: Well, we're on the ground there with Child Fund. We've

8
00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:21,720
Speaker 3: got you know, local people on the ground. People staff

9
00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:25,280
Speaker 3: have been killed. It's awful, Heather, and I think the

10
00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:28,680
Speaker 3: only way that we're going to get any movement forward

11
00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:32,839
Speaker 3: on this is to recognize two state solutions. Now, I

12
00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:35,280
Speaker 3: mean the problem with that, Yes, two thirds of the

13
00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:38,880
Speaker 3: UN countries now recognize Palestine as a state. The definition

14
00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:40,239
Speaker 3: of a state is that you have to have a

15
00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:44,159
Speaker 3: stable population and you have to have a government that's

16
00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:47,400
Speaker 3: able to govern. Well, it doesn't have that. And of

17
00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:50,720
Speaker 3: course now France and Britain Australia have recognized Palestine. The

18
00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:55,280
Speaker 3: problem though is that neither Benjamin Nahu or the leaders

19
00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:59,280
Speaker 3: of Humas want to recognize a two state solutions. So

20
00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:01,960
Speaker 3: I don't know that. I think symbolically it's going to

21
00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:04,880
Speaker 3: be really important, and yes, I think we should and

22
00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:08,960
Speaker 3: if it helps to put pressure on Israel that ultimately

23
00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:11,600
Speaker 3: it's only going to be solved with having some kind

24
00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:14,759
Speaker 3: of peacekeeping force in there that's led by Arab states,

25
00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:18,679
Speaker 3: Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan. You know, it needs to be

26
00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:22,480
Speaker 3: a PA Palestinian authority, not her mus. It must exclude

27
00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:25,520
Speaker 3: her mus Canada's made all these conditions right. One is

28
00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:28,000
Speaker 3: that Hamas has excluded there has to be a commitment

29
00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:30,560
Speaker 3: to democratic elections in twenty twenty six and so on.

30
00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:32,080
Speaker 4: So there's a lot of detail there.

31
00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:34,399
Speaker 3: But I think symbolically it will help us.

32
00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:37,240
Speaker 2: Get the aid in Ture. I agree, right, I think

33
00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:39,600
Speaker 2: the symbolism is important. But why are we not talking

34
00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:42,440
Speaker 2: about flooding the area with aid? Why is that not

35
00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:44,199
Speaker 2: where the effort is being put in, because that's actually

36
00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:46,520
Speaker 2: going to save lives, recognizing a state of Palestine's saving

37
00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:47,279
Speaker 2: no one's life.

38
00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:51,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's right, I mean I think that I think

39
00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:55,080
Speaker 5: there are two There are two things though what we've

40
00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:59,360
Speaker 5: what we have seen is that the getting aid and

41
00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:03,720
Speaker 5: that's sucha is so disastrous at the moment, and unfortunately,

42
00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:05,720
Speaker 5: and I heard a report on this the other week,

43
00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:09,880
Speaker 5: of flying in aid over the top that has become

44
00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:14,080
Speaker 5: more symbolic than actually useful to people on the ground

45
00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:19,400
Speaker 5: recognizing the two state solution. It is symbolic, but sometimes

46
00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:24,840
Speaker 5: with big intransigent issues like this, symbols matter. And obviously

47
00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:26,960
Speaker 5: that recognition is going to align us with our key

48
00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:31,080
Speaker 5: allies and it's going to shift the moral debate. I

49
00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:35,200
Speaker 5: agree with the approach being taken actually by Winston Peters,

50
00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:38,520
Speaker 5: which is there is no upside for New Zealand in

51
00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:45,040
Speaker 5: being first here or rushing into this. We are a

52
00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:50,040
Speaker 5: very small nation and our support is symbolic. But equally,

53
00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:52,760
Speaker 5: if we make a misstep on something like this, given

54
00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:55,600
Speaker 5: the sensitivities around the world, it could have an outsized

55
00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:57,720
Speaker 5: impact on us. In my view.

56
00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:00,280
Speaker 4: Can I just say, though, what the thing out?

57
00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:03,640
Speaker 3: France and Britain and now Australia. But France and Britain

58
00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:07,160
Speaker 3: agreeing to recognize the state of Palestine's that's the Security Council,

59
00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:10,840
Speaker 3: those are the permanent members of the UN. That's quite significant.

60
00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:14,960
Speaker 3: That's different to two thirds of the General Assembly recognizing Palestine.

61
00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:17,399
Speaker 3: And I think I know you're connecting it with AID

62
00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:20,359
Speaker 3: and I know from our experience we will be able

63
00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:24,280
Speaker 3: to get more AID in there if Palestine is recognized

64
00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:26,639
Speaker 3: as a state, because then you start to get Egypt,

65
00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:29,480
Speaker 3: Jordan and so on involved, You start to have a

66
00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:32,160
Speaker 3: kind of political diplomatic process.

67
00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:33,200
Speaker 4: That will start as a state.

68
00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:36,320
Speaker 3: You know, the Palestine sits at the UN, but it

69
00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:37,720
Speaker 3: sits there in a weird comb.

70
00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:40,800
Speaker 2: But we're talking about about something in September. These people

71
00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:43,280
Speaker 2: need eed now. Yeah, but if you have if you have.

72
00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:45,680
Speaker 3: Members of this of the of the permanent members of

73
00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:49,520
Speaker 3: the UN and Security Council recognizing Palestine, suddenly Egypt and

74
00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:52,040
Speaker 3: Jordan who do not want Palestinians to come to their

75
00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:55,760
Speaker 3: countries will say, okay, two state solutions, will get involved,

76
00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:57,600
Speaker 3: will will help to secure.

77
00:03:57,240 --> 00:03:58,240
Speaker 4: The border and get aid in.

78
00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:00,480
Speaker 2: All right, Trish, is there anything you want to say?

79
00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:01,640
Speaker 2: I feel like you got.

80
00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:04,880
Speaker 5: Well no, no, no, it's fine. I mean Josie's obviously

81
00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:07,880
Speaker 5: the specialists in this area. But what I would say is,

82
00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:11,560
Speaker 5: you know, in all the commentary that I have listened to,

83
00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:16,400
Speaker 5: the issue with getting aiden again is met in now

84
00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:21,360
Speaker 5: who in the israelis and unfortunately for the israelis the

85
00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:24,560
Speaker 5: fact that all of these countries now are wanting to

86
00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:28,000
Speaker 5: recognize a two state solution. It is a symbol that

87
00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:33,760
Speaker 5: Israel has completely lost the narrative on this and ultimately,

88
00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:37,279
Speaker 5: in my view, that doesn't Obviously that doesn't help people

89
00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:42,240
Speaker 5: who are starving now, but it may be the lever

90
00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:45,359
Speaker 5: that gets us to a better long term solution for

91
00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:46,640
Speaker 5: people of Gaza.

92
00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:48,480
Speaker 2: All Right, guys, we'll take a break. Come back, talk

93
00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:49,560
Speaker 2: about the poll's boy.

94
00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:53,800
Speaker 1: The Huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty, the ones

95
00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:55,440
Speaker 1: for Unmasked results.

96
00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:57,640
Speaker 2: Right, you're back with the Huddle, Tric Sharson and Joseph

97
00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:00,120
Speaker 2: Aganni Triush. Do you think that the National Party, but

98
00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:02,039
Speaker 2: in particular and the government should be worried about what

99
00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:02,920
Speaker 2: they're seeing in the polls?

100
00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:04,600
Speaker 5: Yes?

101
00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:04,919
Speaker 1: I do.

102
00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:09,880
Speaker 5: I don't know that any of us would have predicted

103
00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:13,360
Speaker 5: that this government would be polling where it is at

104
00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:16,720
Speaker 5: this time in the electoral cycle. They are only halfway

105
00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:21,240
Speaker 5: through their first term, and when you consider what they

106
00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:25,240
Speaker 5: came in off the back of the feeling across the

107
00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:29,240
Speaker 5: electorate about what had happened under the Labor government, what

108
00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:34,239
Speaker 5: it had meant for their individual's own back pockets, I think,

109
00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:37,320
Speaker 5: you know, I would have expected National to be polling

110
00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:42,280
Speaker 5: a lot higher at this point, because consider two factors

111
00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:45,760
Speaker 5: number one, we have absolutely seen nothing to change our

112
00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:49,599
Speaker 5: minds about our laghbour's stewardship of the economy or where

113
00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:53,080
Speaker 5: they might head in the future. And although this has

114
00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:58,440
Speaker 5: been a challenging time for National you know, unfortunately for them,

115
00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:05,279
Speaker 5: they should be the party of good economics. But I'm

116
00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:07,520
Speaker 5: just you know, trying to put my finger on kind

117
00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:10,240
Speaker 5: of what's going wrong here. And it's easy to make

118
00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:14,120
Speaker 5: this sound simplistic, but in my view, one of the

119
00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:19,360
Speaker 5: problems that we have got is because of this the

120
00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:22,680
Speaker 5: cost of living crisis, and it's such a near term issue.

121
00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:27,120
Speaker 5: What the government is really missing is a legacy focus.

122
00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:29,560
Speaker 5: If you think about the governments who have come and

123
00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:32,360
Speaker 5: off the back of very difficult economic times, I'm thinking

124
00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:35,320
Speaker 5: about the eighty four Labor government, and I'm thinking about

125
00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:39,840
Speaker 5: you know, the Rich Ruth Richardson time in the nineties

126
00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:43,840
Speaker 5: and even the Helen Clark government. One of the factors

127
00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:47,680
Speaker 5: that they have all had in common was a legacy focused.

128
00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:50,839
Speaker 5: Neither of them governed just for the next news cycle

129
00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:54,360
Speaker 5: or the election. They all of those had an aim

130
00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:57,279
Speaker 5: to leave the economic architecture in better shape for the

131
00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:01,640
Speaker 5: next generation. In my view, this is what's going wrong

132
00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:04,599
Speaker 5: for national and where that is really the rubbers hitting

133
00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:09,880
Speaker 5: the road here is a fallback into populism, and the

134
00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:13,080
Speaker 5: problem with that is it's all about us and them,

135
00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:15,720
Speaker 5: and in making it about us and them, you are

136
00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:18,600
Speaker 5: losing core parts of your voter base.

137
00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:22,680
Speaker 3: Hang on, Josie, Yeah, I mean I think potentially they

138
00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:26,000
Speaker 3: have a legacy issue around the NCAA stuff. And I

139
00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:28,400
Speaker 3: think you know the column you rode at the weekend

140
00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:30,840
Speaker 3: head on Erica Stanford.

141
00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:33,240
Speaker 4: That there's a bold, courageous.

142
00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:35,160
Speaker 3: Politician who's going right, I'm going to blow it up

143
00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:37,040
Speaker 3: and set it up again. I'm also going to bring

144
00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:37,560
Speaker 3: people with me.

145
00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:39,800
Speaker 2: So why don't they have the courage? Why does Nikola

146
00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:42,440
Speaker 2: Willis and Chris Luxon in particular, and you could probably

147
00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:44,560
Speaker 2: chuck Chris Bishop in there, but those people who are

148
00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:47,720
Speaker 2: involved in finance, why do they not have the courage

149
00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:50,200
Speaker 2: with the economy that Erica Stanford has with education.

150
00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:52,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I would put Chris Bishop in there for

151
00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:54,400
Speaker 3: getting rid of road taxes. There's a whole bunch of

152
00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:56,960
Speaker 3: things that he's done. I think part of the problem

153
00:07:56,960 --> 00:08:00,280
Speaker 3: is that the economy is in a resetting mode. You know,

154
00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:03,160
Speaker 3: we've had high inflation. You could argue the government, and

155
00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:05,320
Speaker 3: I do that they shouldn't have done a tax cut

156
00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:07,280
Speaker 3: when they first came in because that slowed down the

157
00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:08,960
Speaker 3: recovery because the only way you do it.

158
00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:13,800
Speaker 2: Is tinkering theme and when this doesn't work, n cechs

159
00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:15,600
Speaker 2: all gone, Yeah, that's massive.

160
00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:20,440
Speaker 3: Why But hold on one thing though, hold on Trish's

161
00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:22,000
Speaker 3: one thing though that I think is really important. It's

162
00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:26,360
Speaker 3: a Treasury report that said that people's wages compared to

163
00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:29,480
Speaker 3: the cost of living are now back to twenty twenty levels.

164
00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:32,720
Speaker 3: So that's the major problem that the government has is

165
00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:33,520
Speaker 3: that they've got.

166
00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:37,200
Speaker 2: They've got a thousand, they've got myriad problems in the economy.

167
00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:38,479
Speaker 2: What were you going to say, trash.

168
00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:41,120
Speaker 5: I was going to say, and to deal with that again,

169
00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:44,040
Speaker 5: just you know, really lifting this back up. I think

170
00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:48,560
Speaker 5: the the other missing parts that some of those big

171
00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:53,480
Speaker 5: transformational reforming governments had. Number one is strategic clarity. They

172
00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:56,040
Speaker 5: didn't drift. They came into offer and they had a

173
00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:59,679
Speaker 5: clear theory of the problem, a coherent set of solutions,

174
00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:02,920
Speaker 5: and the polite of Erica, the political will to execute

175
00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:04,360
Speaker 5: just like Erica Stanford can.

176
00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:08,560
Speaker 4: I We're getting I'm excited.

177
00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:13,719
Speaker 5: And the second one is political courage. So as an example,

178
00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:17,080
Speaker 5: if you think of Roger Douglas, he was willing to

179
00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:21,080
Speaker 5: make unpopular decisions in pursuit of what he saw was

180
00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:24,679
Speaker 5: in the national interest. Yes, and they he had to

181
00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:27,840
Speaker 5: resist intense pressure on that, and in my view, that

182
00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:30,360
Speaker 5: is what we're missing at the moment as well. You

183
00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:35,720
Speaker 5: have to govern for future current but future generations, and

184
00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:40,840
Speaker 5: if you were just governing based on focus grouping, you

185
00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:43,640
Speaker 5: are not going to tackle the really big problem.

186
00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:45,960
Speaker 3: And a big example of that on the Labour side

187
00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:48,680
Speaker 3: would of course be Michael Joseph Savage right where you know,

188
00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:52,040
Speaker 3: you had a whole state house building building program, you

189
00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:54,160
Speaker 3: had a whole welfare state setup that we still have

190
00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:55,600
Speaker 3: today and that has bipart of.

191
00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:57,079
Speaker 2: Current fort right courage.

192
00:09:57,240 --> 00:10:00,160
Speaker 3: But yeah, but I would also as another exc and

193
00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:04,040
Speaker 3: I would use David Seymour, you know, attacking his own government,

194
00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:06,640
Speaker 3: taking national for not being bold enough around reforms of

195
00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:09,120
Speaker 3: the public sector. And you'd have to say, Nashville came

196
00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:10,640
Speaker 3: in and went, right, we're going to fire a whole

197
00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:13,520
Speaker 3: lot of public servants. Well, you know, tough on them,

198
00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:17,199
Speaker 3: but it's also the easy bit politically to reduce numbers.

199
00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:19,640
Speaker 3: But what you have to do is exactly what Trisha's saying,

200
00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:22,560
Speaker 3: is thinking, what is the public service for? Why has

201
00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:23,240
Speaker 3: it not been.

202
00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:25,000
Speaker 4: Able to deliver good policy?

203
00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:28,440
Speaker 3: Why hasn't it been able to implement quickly urgently and

204
00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:31,480
Speaker 3: to do those things? You need to completely rethink the

205
00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:36,040
Speaker 3: public sector. Yes, divide implementation srategy Right. Thank you, ladies,

206
00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:38,080
Speaker 3: it's wonderful to talk to the pair of you. Really appreciated.

207
00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:40,000
Speaker 3: Joseph Gani, Trishurson, our hut all this evening.

208
00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:43,880
Speaker 1: For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to

209
00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:47,040
Speaker 1: news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow

210
00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:48,839
Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio