WEBVTT - Te Pāti Māori aims to unite, not divide, says co-leader 0:00:05.480 --> 0:00:05.880 Kiyota. 0:00:06.000 --> 0:00:09.200 I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a 0:00:09.280 --> 0:00:10.879 daily podcast. 0:00:10.440 --> 0:00:12.440 Presented by The New Zealand Herald. 0:00:16.000 --> 0:00:21.119 Debbie Nauda Packer is known for unapologetically fighting for the 0:00:21.200 --> 0:00:24.919 rights of Maldi. The co leader of Tepati Maldi never 0:00:24.960 --> 0:00:28.680 shies away from speaking her mind, especially when it comes 0:00:28.720 --> 0:00:32.920 to social and climate justice. Since becoming co leader in 0:00:33.080 --> 0:00:38.239 twenty twenty, she's been suspended from Parliament and criticized the 0:00:38.280 --> 0:00:43.519 coalition's intent to dismantle indigenous rights. At the last election, 0:00:43.680 --> 0:00:48.200 Tapati Maori won six electorate seats, its best result yet. 0:00:48.600 --> 0:00:51.479 Today on the Front Page, Debbie Nadoua Packa is with 0:00:51.720 --> 0:00:54.360 us to take us through how the party is gearing 0:00:54.440 --> 0:00:57.960 up for election twenty twenty six and how they'll appeal 0:00:58.080 --> 0:01:00.720 to the masses, or if they even. 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:05.760 Want to so. 0:01:05.920 --> 0:01:09.319 Debbie, you've obviously been critical of the government's approach to 0:01:09.440 --> 0:01:13.560 Maldi rights and treaty obligations. What do you see is 0:01:13.600 --> 0:01:18.120 the most urgent challenges facing Malti under the current government. 0:01:19.440 --> 0:01:23.119 Yeah, I think immediately what we have is a real 0:01:24.440 --> 0:01:28.679 challenge to democracy. Obviously, I've been really open about the 0:01:28.720 --> 0:01:32.040 iniquities that this government refuses to address such than health 0:01:32.520 --> 0:01:35.720 and education. But I think there's also a major trust 0:01:37.200 --> 0:01:42.080 issue that I don't think this government is ever certainly 0:01:42.840 --> 0:01:44.800 this Prime Minister is ever going to be able to resolve. 0:01:44.840 --> 0:01:48.600 And that's the way that this government has just come 0:01:48.640 --> 0:01:51.960 out and attacked Maori, every other minority and an important 0:01:52.680 --> 0:01:54.600 person that makes up the fabric of alty at all. 0:01:55.120 --> 0:01:59.520 Obviously, election day for the Tamiki Makodo by election is 0:01:59.720 --> 0:02:03.320 this Saturday, September six. We did an episode the other 0:02:03.360 --> 0:02:06.360 week about it where vic UNI Associate Professor Lara Greeves 0:02:06.360 --> 0:02:08.440 told us that it's basically a race to the finish 0:02:08.520 --> 0:02:11.720 line between Laboring to Batti Mali. You've got Bernie Hannada 0:02:11.960 --> 0:02:13.639 and Areni Kaipra. 0:02:14.720 --> 0:02:15.480 We know it. 0:02:15.480 --> 0:02:18.680 It was quite a tight contest in twenty twenty three. 0:02:18.800 --> 0:02:21.200 How is it looking now this year this time around? 0:02:21.919 --> 0:02:24.840 Yeah, I think I'm coming into the bi election as 0:02:24.880 --> 0:02:27.839 some real concerning issues which I think affect the whole 0:02:27.840 --> 0:02:29.760 of Old head Or and that is the fact that 0:02:29.800 --> 0:02:34.200 we have round about nine eight hundred Maori on a 0:02:34.240 --> 0:02:38.760 dormant list and if that's not resolved by twenty twenty six, 0:02:38.919 --> 0:02:42.400 we effectively have then removed from being able to participate 0:02:42.400 --> 0:02:45.840 in democracy. So we've come into a by election where 0:02:45.880 --> 0:02:49.000 there are trust issues with the Electoral Commission, where we 0:02:50.160 --> 0:02:55.079 have not received confidence and assurance that the dormant list 0:02:55.120 --> 0:02:58.600 that keeps growing for Maori voters has been addressed. So 0:02:59.040 --> 0:03:02.519 you know that then means the scenario that we're dealing 0:03:02.520 --> 0:03:03.840 with is really. 0:03:05.440 --> 0:03:08.040 Really contentious. For whoever are the candidates. 0:03:08.720 --> 0:03:11.800 I think, you know, when we come into the desire, 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:14.440 the desire of the people, I'm in Tomachy Macota at 0:03:14.480 --> 0:03:16.919 the moment, and it is about, you know, do we 0:03:16.960 --> 0:03:20.520 trust as Maori, you know, a person who's been a 0:03:20.560 --> 0:03:25.720 career politician eighteen years plus, in fact been an ex minister, 0:03:26.240 --> 0:03:29.079 or do we trust someone who's well no one has 0:03:29.120 --> 0:03:34.480 been a part of detraumatizing community and has shown her faciness. 0:03:34.480 --> 0:03:37.160 And I think that's really what it's coming down to her. 0:03:37.160 --> 0:03:39.480 And I know, you know, we've got a person who 0:03:39.480 --> 0:03:43.400 reputes himself on his history, who you know, tried to 0:03:43.480 --> 0:03:48.680 legislate out all during during his tenure, who was missing 0:03:48.720 --> 0:03:52.360 in action during COVID response for Mary, who allowed a 0:03:52.440 --> 0:03:55.040 Malori vaccine rollout to happen without Mali input, and in 0:03:55.120 --> 0:03:57.640 fact we had to stand up so I think, you know, again, 0:03:57.680 --> 0:04:01.440 we've got real trust issues and is you're going to 0:04:01.440 --> 0:04:04.280 do enough for the sense of urgency that Maori haves. So, 0:04:05.000 --> 0:04:06.720 you know, I think it will come down to the line. 0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:10.400 It will be who decides that actually we need to 0:04:11.000 --> 0:04:13.480 they even want to participate, given the trust isses we 0:04:13.520 --> 0:04:18.000 have with governments. But yeah, it's I am getting a 0:04:18.040 --> 0:04:23.760 real sense of the pain and the hurt and the 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:28.719 betrayal from this government requires someone who's going to be 0:04:28.839 --> 0:04:32.000 different than what we've had from either settler parties or 0:04:32.080 --> 0:04:33.599 legacy parties, whichever they are called. 0:04:34.080 --> 0:04:37.520 What would a win for TO Party Maori and already 0:04:37.800 --> 0:04:41.040 mean heading into the election next year, do you think. 0:04:41.160 --> 0:04:43.720 Oh, I think, you know, for TO Party Mario. You know, 0:04:43.839 --> 0:04:48.680 it's really critical for us. We had the mandate and yes, 0:04:48.760 --> 0:04:51.120 yes you said it was. It was really tight, but 0:04:51.200 --> 0:04:54.520 it was a mandate that was growing despite the fact 0:04:54.600 --> 0:04:59.280 us having a really unwell you know, unwell MP and 0:04:59.760 --> 0:05:03.200 what we've seen and had connected with us as record 0:05:03.279 --> 0:05:05.760 numbers at a lot of the events, we had record 0:05:05.800 --> 0:05:10.560 numbers at the participation of who the selection process was 0:05:10.600 --> 0:05:12.640 going to be. So it's going to mean that we 0:05:12.760 --> 0:05:16.159 continue to have that voice and that voice, that's that's 0:05:16.240 --> 0:05:20.159 pushing one hundred percent for Mali to be seen and heard, 0:05:20.920 --> 0:05:25.039 particularly in an environment where we see our voices have 0:05:25.120 --> 0:05:28.040 been pushed back and our co propper, whether it be 0:05:28.120 --> 0:05:30.320 Final Order, Malori health, have all. 0:05:30.160 --> 0:05:32.360 Been pushed back. 0:05:32.400 --> 0:05:34.240 So I think it's really important for us that we 0:05:34.320 --> 0:05:37.400 continue to have somebody that's going to protect Tommy and 0:05:37.400 --> 0:05:40.680 Macota and protect the energy of what it is. But 0:05:40.720 --> 0:05:43.640 you know what else, it sort of sounds all doom 0:05:43.640 --> 0:05:47.960 and gloom. We've also seen a whole lot of positivity 0:05:48.040 --> 0:05:50.560 and a whole of solutions coming forward, and so we 0:05:50.600 --> 0:05:52.640 want another voice here that's going to push our wealth text, 0:05:52.680 --> 0:05:56.359 that's going to push our you know, our housing policy, 0:05:56.400 --> 0:05:58.680 that's going to push it our people no longer become 0:05:58.760 --> 0:06:01.280 homeless and can afford to have a house, you know, 0:06:01.320 --> 0:06:03.080 a roof over the heads and food on the table. 0:06:03.160 --> 0:06:05.720 So I think that's you know, that's a really important 0:06:05.800 --> 0:06:09.039 part of keeping this voice. But I know, you know, 0:06:09.080 --> 0:06:12.600 in an unapologetic party party, Marian, I think the thing 0:06:12.680 --> 0:06:14.360 is that you know, what we've seen when we sawt 0:06:14.400 --> 0:06:16.720 from the heir Cooys is that we're not a party 0:06:16.760 --> 0:06:20.880 that is for one hundred percent Maori focused, Mali inequities focused, 0:06:20.880 --> 0:06:23.520 but we're also one hundred and fifty percent altied or 0:06:23.560 --> 0:06:27.680 everyone focused. I think that's the climate that people want, 0:06:27.880 --> 0:06:31.200 is transformational change, but someone who peeps us all together 0:06:31.400 --> 0:06:33.520 and united, and that's what we stand for. 0:06:33.680 --> 0:06:35.400 That's what that voice is so important of here. 0:06:36.000 --> 0:06:40.240 If we do look forward to the twenty twenty six 0:06:40.520 --> 0:06:44.120 general election, I mean, I know that historically to Bartimori 0:06:44.240 --> 0:06:48.720 has focused on Maori seats, of course, but in terms 0:06:48.760 --> 0:06:51.320 of the Haircuois and that show of support that you 0:06:51.800 --> 0:06:55.840 saw from wider New Zealand, would would the party be 0:06:55.960 --> 0:07:00.960 open to perhaps going beyond its traditional vote base or 0:07:00.960 --> 0:07:03.159 do you even want to do that? Yeah? 0:07:03.200 --> 0:07:05.840 Of course, I mean I think, I mean what we 0:07:05.880 --> 0:07:09.720 want to do is have a nation that respects everyone's 0:07:09.720 --> 0:07:13.720 that respects everyone's uniqueness, diversity, that comes together and makes 0:07:13.800 --> 0:07:17.440 us an amazing nation that it is. That's what represents 0:07:17.600 --> 0:07:21.840 and what we've seen you without any doubt, have we 0:07:21.880 --> 0:07:24.520 saught on the treaty principal submissions and we've actually seen 0:07:24.520 --> 0:07:27.120 the Regultory Standards Bill a record ninety eight percent of 0:07:27.160 --> 0:07:31.680 opposing the division that we've seen, you know, rolling out 0:07:31.680 --> 0:07:35.240 of this sort of really hateful government and so absolutely, 0:07:35.280 --> 0:07:38.040 and I think we will continue to be Obviously we're 0:07:38.080 --> 0:07:42.320 in an indigenous led and Tongue Ta pheneral party, but 0:07:42.480 --> 0:07:46.440 that was never about living alone. We were always united 0:07:46.440 --> 0:07:48.760 in our fight against c big mining. We're united in 0:07:48.760 --> 0:07:51.600 our fight against you know, making sure that we can 0:07:51.640 --> 0:07:55.080 give good jobs, good homes and good lives, good education 0:07:55.200 --> 0:07:56.080 system for our people. 0:07:56.120 --> 0:07:57.440 That's what Tetanditi promises. 0:07:57.520 --> 0:08:01.680 So yeah, yeah, we're absolutely, always has been focused and 0:08:01.720 --> 0:08:04.000 we and we use that terminology alter at our home. 0:08:04.120 --> 0:08:06.360 And I think you know, what we've had to contend 0:08:06.400 --> 0:08:10.760 with is a rhetoric of you know, brothers they're extreme, 0:08:10.800 --> 0:08:14.240 the others, Well, yeah, we are extremely optimistic, we are 0:08:14.320 --> 0:08:19.640 extremely altered or eccentric, and if we were to look 0:08:19.680 --> 0:08:22.800 at our values, everything about it is actually bringing the 0:08:22.840 --> 0:08:26.800 balance back into life and the restorative manner approach for everybody. 0:08:26.880 --> 0:08:29.680 So yeah, absolutely, and we've got to continue to be open. 0:08:29.760 --> 0:08:33.680 Like you know, I'm the second generation of party. Mighty 0:08:33.679 --> 0:08:36.880 goodness knows what the next generation now ongoing. We're under 0:08:36.880 --> 0:08:41.080 a twenty year old party. So as a movement, we're still, yes, 0:08:41.160 --> 0:08:44.439 still growing us and it's a really humbling place and 0:08:44.520 --> 0:08:45.439 exciting place to be. 0:08:45.400 --> 0:08:55.040 In because we fight to be the best time at 0:08:55.040 --> 0:08:57.960 the Fender weekend that old Eor deserves. Doesn't mean that 0:08:58.000 --> 0:09:00.839 we're anting anybody as absolutely not. When you wanted to 0:09:00.840 --> 0:09:04.560 blow up things in Pacific, you know, People's Ministry for 0:09:04.600 --> 0:09:07.120 Pacific Keepers, all those types of you've never heard that 0:09:07.520 --> 0:09:08.280 from us once. 0:09:10.160 --> 0:09:13.600 What would you say to an undecided a Parkih voter, 0:09:13.880 --> 0:09:16.600 I suppose do you think there's a misconception that you 0:09:16.679 --> 0:09:18.480 will only look after Mali? 0:09:18.679 --> 0:09:21.600 I think there is, and it's just so, And I 0:09:21.640 --> 0:09:25.760 think actually it's a narrative that's been deliberately designed. But 0:09:25.960 --> 0:09:28.679 I always think that actions speak louder than words. And 0:09:29.200 --> 0:09:31.880 you know, for an example, Rawi and I found a 0:09:31.960 --> 0:09:35.679 water wipe data a lot of the heart of to 0:09:35.840 --> 0:09:38.720 party Maori where showed our actions during COVID. 0:09:39.080 --> 0:09:41.760 We looked after everyone. We looked after the whole community. 0:09:41.760 --> 0:09:44.400 And while we were all doing that together, we took 0:09:44.440 --> 0:09:46.560 the weight of the public health system and off the 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:49.559 hospital so it could focus on those who needed that 0:09:49.679 --> 0:09:54.800 acute care. We fed everyone, We communicated at all levels 0:09:54.800 --> 0:09:57.440 to everyone, and I bet you couldn't find a single 0:09:57.440 --> 0:10:00.720 person in to Taihwa to Electric that said. We didn't 0:10:00.720 --> 0:10:02.560 tune up for a whole community that we didn't turn 0:10:02.640 --> 0:10:04.920 up for his whole community. Final order didn't deliver to 0:10:04.960 --> 0:10:08.560 its whole community. We can't be a nation that's divided 0:10:08.559 --> 0:10:11.640 and hateful, that leaves people behind. And what we've seen, 0:10:12.280 --> 0:10:15.440 sadly is, you know, women have been expendable. We've seen 0:10:15.840 --> 0:10:20.000 our disabled tiku of the whole community left behind. It's 0:10:20.120 --> 0:10:25.040 just not a narrative, but I do see continuously and 0:10:25.080 --> 0:10:27.839 I guess the first half of this year also we've. 0:10:27.559 --> 0:10:30.720 Been pushing back and refusing to comply. 0:10:31.200 --> 0:10:35.080 With the speaker, with the way that we've seen the House, 0:10:35.720 --> 0:10:40.800 you know, act disproportionately and unfear to us as an 0:10:40.800 --> 0:10:44.319 Indigenous League party. So yeah, like I said, I can 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:47.720 see where that narrative comes from. But our actions completely 0:10:47.800 --> 0:10:51.240 say the opposite. The Hequoi shows we're completely the opposite. 0:10:51.320 --> 0:10:56.440 Our support for other people of Palestine, our support for 0:10:57.000 --> 0:11:02.040 environmental issues, our support for everyone being well completely shows 0:11:02.120 --> 0:11:04.840 the opposite. So I think it's you know, we we 0:11:04.880 --> 0:11:07.120 want to look after all workers in all New Zealanders 0:11:07.520 --> 0:11:09.400 and what we want is for everyone to be given 0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:12.160 a fair chance to live well, not just the two 0:11:12.200 --> 0:11:14.600 percent to more than fifty percent of the wealth of 0:11:14.640 --> 0:11:17.040 old ted Le or so like to Party Kakaiki, who 0:11:17.040 --> 0:11:19.280 we get on really well with. We have a wealth tax, 0:11:19.840 --> 0:11:22.520 and our wealth tax is not about being rich envy, 0:11:22.720 --> 0:11:25.600 It's actually about it let's just distribute the wealth and 0:11:25.600 --> 0:11:28.400 have a tax system that's fair for all. So yeah, 0:11:28.440 --> 0:11:29.920 and we don't get to talk about those things a 0:11:29.960 --> 0:11:33.680 lot because the media normally wants to hear the drama 0:11:33.800 --> 0:11:34.480 of what we're doing. 0:11:34.480 --> 0:11:36.560 So yeah, and I think that's good. 0:11:37.800 --> 0:11:40.120 Yeah, I know, And I think I think that's because 0:11:41.240 --> 0:11:45.240 you know, we just keep getting cornered in some of 0:11:45.280 --> 0:11:48.360 these politics. But the reality is, you listen to Hannah 0:11:48.800 --> 0:11:52.560 and the contribution she makes to education and in the 0:11:52.640 --> 0:11:56.040 progress that she's proposing. I think we're a really progressive 0:11:56.679 --> 0:12:00.760 movement and we're really really proud to be staunchly side 0:12:00.800 --> 0:12:02.520 by side with to Party cr cutter Key as well. 0:12:03.320 --> 0:12:04.800 So I think two of us know what we're doing. 0:12:06.679 --> 0:12:09.959 Why do you think some people are so hell bent 0:12:10.200 --> 0:12:15.720 on disregarding the basic fact that Maldi and Pacifica face 0:12:15.880 --> 0:12:19.800 different health outcomes than Parki ha on the podcast when 0:12:19.840 --> 0:12:22.880 I said that, said just that there are worse outcomes 0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:27.800 for Maldi and pacifica David Seymour said this, You've also. 0:12:27.640 --> 0:12:33.520 Said that your preferred lens for partitioning human beings is race. Actually, 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:38.079 there are differences between rich and poor. There are differences 0:12:38.120 --> 0:12:41.640 based on education. There are differences based on whether people 0:12:41.760 --> 0:12:44.920 choose to spoke serrits. There are differences based on dietary 0:12:45.520 --> 0:12:48.400 There are so many different ways that you can categorize people. 0:12:48.760 --> 0:12:52.760 I just reject choosing one which is quite clumsy, quite nicky, 0:12:53.160 --> 0:12:55.880 and doesn't actually get us to target the people in 0:12:55.960 --> 0:12:56.520 greatest need. 0:12:57.360 --> 0:13:00.120 Now a lot to unpack there, But what would you 0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:02.840 say to people who think that everyone should be treated 0:13:02.880 --> 0:13:05.480 I suppose equally is his argument. 0:13:06.400 --> 0:13:09.840 I think the whole debate and the fundamental difference between 0:13:09.880 --> 0:13:13.240 the likes of us and ACT is that we don't 0:13:13.240 --> 0:13:15.720 deny our history. We don't deny that we have an equities. 0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:18.000 We don't deny that we've all arrived to today with 0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:22.280 different with different parts of who and what makes us up. 0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:24.720 And that's the biggest debate that we're having is we 0:13:24.840 --> 0:13:28.839 have a politician like David Seymour who's pretending that we 0:13:29.040 --> 0:13:32.360 have we wipe out the history, for example of colonization, 0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:35.280 we wipe out the history of two or three generations 0:13:35.360 --> 0:13:40.080 of trauma. We wipe out the history of the weight 0:13:40.240 --> 0:13:43.040 that it takes to break the cycle of deficit thinking, 0:13:43.080 --> 0:13:45.480 to break the cycle of poverty, to break the cycle 0:13:45.920 --> 0:13:50.000 of being able to feel at one with the rest 0:13:50.000 --> 0:13:54.040 of your community. That is a bigger systemic issue that 0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:58.600 the refusing to accept, which effectively says, but like the treaty, 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:00.400 colonization never happened. 0:14:01.320 --> 0:14:02.680 The treaty never happened. 0:14:02.760 --> 0:14:07.120 In fact, Maldi pacifica, and not just us, woman and 0:14:07.200 --> 0:14:09.640 not just women those who are disabled. 0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:11.960 Buckle up. We all are treated the same. 0:14:12.000 --> 0:14:14.040 And the reality is you and I know an everyday 0:14:14.080 --> 0:14:17.160 basis that that's not the fact at all. So I 0:14:17.200 --> 0:14:21.560 also think equity costs, and there has been a real 0:14:21.880 --> 0:14:25.720 cost equation put to us. And we thought David was 0:14:25.760 --> 0:14:29.520 really outspoken during a COVID and so was Judith Collins. 0:14:29.560 --> 0:14:32.280 Oh you know this is this is not as costing us. 0:14:32.280 --> 0:14:35.240 Marty shouldn't have their own vaccine thing. Marty shouldn't have Well, actually, 0:14:35.280 --> 0:14:38.520 we live collectively when when a lot of Western cultures don't. 0:14:38.680 --> 0:14:41.960 We have a different way of communicating. And I think 0:14:42.000 --> 0:14:46.680 what we've seen sadly is a politician who really just 0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:50.400 doesn't respect the fact that there were people here. We 0:14:50.520 --> 0:14:54.440 have rights as everyone does. Those are indigenous rights which 0:14:54.440 --> 0:14:57.400 are captured in ten tnty, which is why he's attacking 0:14:57.880 --> 0:15:01.120 ten Tarnty. I think the other thing is because equity costs, 0:15:01.160 --> 0:15:03.320 and nobody wants to invest in that when they prefer 0:15:03.400 --> 0:15:07.720 to have you know, exploitation, corporate exploitation, atlas agendas coming through, 0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:09.520 whatever you want to call it, whether you accept that 0:15:09.680 --> 0:15:12.120 or not. We have a different approach, and we believe 0:15:12.120 --> 0:15:14.960 in investing in equity and doing a target approach to 0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:17.440 addressing inequities and let us get on and do it 0:15:17.480 --> 0:15:19.760 once for all and get us all to a stage 0:15:19.760 --> 0:15:23.000 where we can live equally. And I think that's the 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:25.920 fundamental difference between us all is we don't deny our history. 0:15:26.800 --> 0:15:30.560 It made us who we are from Tatanaki advantage by 0:15:31.680 --> 0:15:34.600 the resilience that my ancestors are sent you gave to 0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:37.120 me through everything they endured. But that doesn't mean that 0:15:37.160 --> 0:15:40.080 I'm prepared to wipe out what they went through. So yeah, 0:15:40.480 --> 0:15:42.760 and I think it's just a moment in time. I 0:15:43.120 --> 0:15:45.320 do think that you can see it now, young ones 0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:49.200 Mali non Mali tongue to Titi, tongue to mourner, whatever 0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:53.000 you want to label yourself. There is a general acceptance, 0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:56.960 a social justice acceptance that everyone deserves to be treated 0:15:56.960 --> 0:15:59.080 with dignity and we want to live in peace. 0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:00.800 It's just we've got. 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:03.320 Some're a young country with the last of the countries 0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:05.040 that were colonize, so we've got a little bit of 0:16:05.040 --> 0:16:07.560 growth to go through and we'll get there. 0:16:07.720 --> 0:16:09.160 It's just a bit tough at the moment. 0:16:09.840 --> 0:16:14.000 And lastly, if there's one thing that you could change tomorrow, 0:16:14.840 --> 0:16:15.560 what would it be? 0:16:16.440 --> 0:16:17.120 Are really easy? 0:16:17.880 --> 0:16:22.760 I would first of all, resource and invest hugely in 0:16:22.800 --> 0:16:27.400 the program of Martiquiemai as an educational copaper for us 0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:31.640 as a nation, and invest time in what would transformational 0:16:31.760 --> 0:16:36.400 change be and look like. And that is a growing 0:16:36.480 --> 0:16:40.560 up program and conversation. I think it's exciting. It happened 0:16:40.560 --> 0:16:42.600 in the past. It's had more than ten thousand people 0:16:42.920 --> 0:16:46.600 at fifteen thousand people contribute to it at Verrey in phases, 0:16:47.080 --> 0:16:50.400 and I think that the world could see how we 0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:57.800 map out our being together, our social cohesion as an 0:16:57.960 --> 0:16:58.920 indigenous led. 0:16:58.840 --> 0:17:03.480 Nation, a proud nation of Mardi and a nation that's 0:17:03.520 --> 0:17:03.760 you know. 0:17:04.359 --> 0:17:09.000 It's because Once we do that in trench collectively with 0:17:09.119 --> 0:17:12.159 Idle Heart, then that sets the theme for everything we 0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:13.480 do with each other. 0:17:14.320 --> 0:17:15.880 Your rights and my rights both matter. 0:17:16.119 --> 0:17:17.920 Your rights and my rights to look after our nation 0:17:18.119 --> 0:17:22.400 are just as important. But until we accept each other's rights, 0:17:22.920 --> 0:17:24.760 we're just going to continue to sort of go down 0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:27.160 this FORR. Sad Lane that I think only a few 0:17:27.359 --> 0:17:30.000 are saying. And the evidences and he called the evidences 0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:32.560 and the truly principal skill the evidences in the regulatory 0:17:32.560 --> 0:17:35.320 standard schill and they get a lot of airtime, but 0:17:35.400 --> 0:17:37.119 I think these are That's what I would do. 0:17:37.400 --> 0:17:39.600 Thanks for joining us, Debbie, anytime. 0:17:42.760 --> 0:17:45.960 That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You 0:17:46.000 --> 0:17:49.880 can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage 0:17:49.920 --> 0:17:54.000 at NZADHERLD, dot co, dot MZ. The Front Page is 0:17:54.080 --> 0:17:57.480 produced by Jane Ye and Richard Martin, who is also 0:17:57.680 --> 0:18:02.160 our editor. I'm Chelsea Daniel. Subscribe to the Front Page 0:18:02.200 --> 0:18:05.800 on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune 0:18:05.840 --> 0:18:08.880 in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.