1
00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,840
Speaker 1: Now the New Zealand Chambers of Commerce have banded together

2
00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:05,680
Speaker 1: and spoken out against the government's surcharge band they're worried

3
00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:08,600
Speaker 1: it's going to harm small businesses. Simon Bridges is the

4
00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:11,119
Speaker 1: CEO of the Auckland Business Chamber and speaking on behalf

5
00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:12,879
Speaker 1: of all of them, and of course a former National

6
00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:16,079
Speaker 1: Party leader and with us. Now, Hey, Simon, hey, evening, Heather.

7
00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:18,479
Speaker 1: Any idea how big the impact is going to be

8
00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:20,320
Speaker 1: on small and medium sized retailers.

9
00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:22,919
Speaker 2: I think really significant. I mean the first point I'd

10
00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:25,520
Speaker 2: make is you mentioned the New Zealand Chambers twenty nine

11
00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:29,800
Speaker 2: chambers from Northland to Southland. Yesterday my email was going hot.

12
00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:32,640
Speaker 2: I mean, they are really concerned about this all over

13
00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:35,280
Speaker 2: the country and that's because I think, to answer your question,

14
00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:38,559
Speaker 2: we're talking about ninety seven percent of businesses which are

15
00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:42,600
Speaker 2: small and medium businesses. And the reality is the banning

16
00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:46,199
Speaker 2: of a surcharge isn't a cost free exercise, despite what

17
00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:50,000
Speaker 2: the government may think. Consumers may like it, but someone

18
00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:53,360
Speaker 2: has to pay merchant fees and I think the news

19
00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:55,320
Speaker 2: on that is Look, it's either going to be through

20
00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:59,920
Speaker 2: price hikes that consumers may not appreciate or understand, or

21
00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:02,880
Speaker 2: it's going to be the poor old sme in areas

22
00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:06,440
Speaker 2: like retail, hospo, tourism that are going to be having

23
00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:08,360
Speaker 2: to find a way to pay for it. And I

24
00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:10,440
Speaker 2: hate to tell again the government the bad news, but

25
00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:13,360
Speaker 2: those SMEs aren't exactly in clover at the moment.

26
00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:16,280
Speaker 1: No, are you surprised by the strength of feeling out there?

27
00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:20,600
Speaker 2: I am. Look, you know, at first blush, I think

28
00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:22,400
Speaker 2: you know, you see the announcement, you think, oh, well,

29
00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:25,360
Speaker 2: that all sounds very nice. That's well intentioned. There's a

30
00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:27,200
Speaker 2: lot of people will like that. But I think you know,

31
00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:30,000
Speaker 2: when you really think about it, there is a merchant

32
00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:34,240
Speaker 2: fee from banks or from other payment providers. It does

33
00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:38,120
Speaker 2: have to be paid. And so look, actually, one way

34
00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:40,520
Speaker 2: to think about this is all the government's doing by

35
00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:45,000
Speaker 2: banning the surchargers is they're making the whole thing less transparent.

36
00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:48,160
Speaker 2: The fee, the cost, the price in the end to

37
00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:51,080
Speaker 2: someone that someone's got to pay, whether it's consumers or SMEs,

38
00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:53,680
Speaker 2: it doesn't go away. It's just being hidden.

39
00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:55,800
Speaker 1: Now what do you think is going on here? So

40
00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:58,240
Speaker 1: I'm gonna put your political hat on and explain this

41
00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:00,160
Speaker 1: to me, because this is a government that's supposed to

42
00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:03,960
Speaker 1: be pro business, pro smaller medium enterprise, and yet they've

43
00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:06,080
Speaker 1: done something that they know full well is going to

44
00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:07,160
Speaker 1: hurt these guys. Why they do it?

45
00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:09,960
Speaker 2: What I suppose this is in there and there, you know,

46
00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:14,880
Speaker 2: there was so many you know, unintended consequences come from that.

47
00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:18,000
Speaker 2: They've got good intentions. They're sitting there thinking, well, this

48
00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:19,959
Speaker 2: is going to be good for consumers. We've heard a

49
00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:23,720
Speaker 2: lot of gripes about this out on the stumps, but they,

50
00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:26,600
Speaker 2: you know, I think in the Chamber of commerce movement

51
00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:29,280
Speaker 2: thinks haven't really thought it through. I think the other

52
00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:32,400
Speaker 2: surprising thing about this is when you think about someone

53
00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:35,880
Speaker 2: has to pay it may well be in many cases

54
00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:40,280
Speaker 2: that the retailers that the SME is paying it. But

55
00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:42,640
Speaker 2: I still, for the life and we can't see why,

56
00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:45,480
Speaker 2: you know, you wouldn't have gone to source of the fees, which,

57
00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:49,680
Speaker 2: as I says, banks fundamentally and other payment providers, why

58
00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:53,040
Speaker 2: they haven't gone there? And instead they're probably getting you know,

59
00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:56,560
Speaker 2: ninety seven percent of businesses the SMEs. That's a bit

60
00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:57,080
Speaker 2: beyond me.

61
00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:01,000
Speaker 1: Listen, have you got a grip yet on just how

62
00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:04,280
Speaker 1: this actually works? How much the banks are responsible, how

63
00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:07,800
Speaker 1: much for how much the Visit Master card guides are

64
00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:10,440
Speaker 1: responsible for. Because it's so complex. It's really hardening wine,

65
00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:10,840
Speaker 1: isn't it.

66
00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:14,280
Speaker 2: No, Look we haven't. I mean, what's happened yesterday. The

67
00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:17,120
Speaker 2: announcement was on Monday yesterday. As I say, my emails

68
00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:20,120
Speaker 2: were hot, literally from the morins of all the Cambridge

69
00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:23,200
Speaker 2: through the Southland and Queenstown Chambers of Commerce. They were

70
00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:25,280
Speaker 2: all on. They were getting a lot of feedback, so

71
00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:28,040
Speaker 2: I couldn't tell you a percentage. I think what's true is,

72
00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:30,799
Speaker 2: you know, if we're being objective about this, there will

73
00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:33,320
Speaker 2: be cases where the bank put on you know, X,

74
00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:36,080
Speaker 2: and there'll be retailers who put on a bit more

75
00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:38,520
Speaker 2: than that they sweetened the deal. But I'll give you

76
00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:41,160
Speaker 2: an example I just saw in from the Queenstown Chamber.

77
00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:45,760
Speaker 2: You know, travel agents they can no longer charge any

78
00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:48,800
Speaker 2: commission on you know, the likes of Air New Zealand fees.

79
00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:51,480
Speaker 2: You know, so if the punter comes in and wants

80
00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:55,200
Speaker 2: to pay for that on credit card, you know, by

81
00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:59,200
Speaker 2: tapping their card. Look, actually, one way to think about

82
00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:02,400
Speaker 2: it is a travel agent is helping pay for that

83
00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:05,320
Speaker 2: person's holiday, right They are paying real cost with that.

84
00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:08,600
Speaker 2: So that's the sort of thing we're talking about.

85
00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:10,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, do you reckon you can get them

86
00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:11,320
Speaker 1: to back down.

87
00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:14,480
Speaker 2: I think we'll try. I mean, I think what we

88
00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:18,320
Speaker 2: need to do is talk to ministers. Look, there's definitely

89
00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:21,800
Speaker 2: an issue here, but the way through isn't I don't

90
00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:25,599
Speaker 2: think unnecessarily this. They're talking about a bill before the

91
00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:27,400
Speaker 2: end of the year, and you can beat your bottom

92
00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:29,520
Speaker 2: dollar that the Chambers of Commerce will be submitted on

93
00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:30,240
Speaker 2: it go you.

94
00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:34,080
Speaker 1: That's the spirit, Simon Bridges, CEO of the Auckland Business Chamber.

95
00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:37,920
Speaker 2: For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to

96
00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:41,039
Speaker 2: news Talk sai'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow

97
00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:42,800
Speaker 2: the podcast on iHeartRadio