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Speaker 1: Our workplace rules are in for a shake up. Government

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Speaker 1: looking to change the Employment Relations Act to make it

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Speaker 1: easier to define who's an employee who's a contractor. Workplace

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Speaker 1: Relations and Safety Minister Brook van Builden is with us

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Speaker 1: on all of this. Very good morning to you.

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Speaker 2: Good morning mate.

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Speaker 1: What's the timeframe on this, Because you're on the program

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Speaker 1: a couple of weeks ago and ask you the same question,

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Speaker 1: you're being all coy about it then, so what's changed

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Speaker 1: and what's the timeframe?

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Speaker 2: Well, see, what this government has committed to under the

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Speaker 2: Coalition agreement is to provide more certainty for contractors and

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Speaker 2: employees about the distinction between contract arrangements. So we're clarifying

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Speaker 2: that under the law to provide a new gateway test

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Speaker 2: which says if you meet for criteria, then you will

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Speaker 2: be found as a individual contractor. So that means if

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Speaker 2: you've got a written agreement where it says written down

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Speaker 2: that you are an independent contractor and that's the relationship

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Speaker 2: that you can work for other people and have other

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Speaker 2: agreements that you don't have set hours or if there

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Speaker 2: are set hours, that you can subcontract out and your

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Speaker 2: contract not going to be terminated because you don't want

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Speaker 2: to take on an extra task outside of it. Now

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Speaker 2: a business and a worker can meet all of those requirements,

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Speaker 2: and that's an independent contractor relationship above and beyond what's

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Speaker 2: in the current law. So what this does is it

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Speaker 2: provides a better clarity for everybody. So that's better for

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Speaker 2: all kiwis when I'm hoping to get this through. I'm

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Speaker 2: hoping to get this law into parliaments next year.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So does the law not do that with the

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Speaker 1: level of clarity you're happy with? And or is this

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Speaker 1: tied up with the uber situation? And or will this

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Speaker 1: new law with its new clarity necessarily mean that people

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Speaker 1: still don't go to court to try it on.

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Speaker 2: Well, we know, we know there are a range of

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Speaker 2: businesses and workers who don't know whether or not they

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Speaker 2: are employees or contractors, or they're not sure, so they're

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Speaker 2: testing this under the courts because most of this has

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Speaker 2: been built through case law over time, so it's not

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Speaker 2: actually clear enough in the law how individual contract arrangements work.

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Speaker 2: So that's what we're here to provide that clarity for.

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Speaker 2: Because at the heart of this, we want kiwis in work.

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Speaker 2: We want businesses to be providing people with opportunity, and

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Speaker 2: we know that when you have a flexible labor market

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Speaker 2: it has better productivity for everyone. But that's what we're

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Speaker 2: here to provide for. But we know that even with

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Speaker 2: current cases, there's been a lot of uncertainty in the

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Speaker 2: business community and business confidence has been really down under

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Speaker 2: the last government. So we're here to build back business

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Speaker 2: confidence and get more people into work with certain arrangements.

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Speaker 1: Good stuff go well, well, that appreciated very much. The

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Speaker 1: clearer you make it, the better it is. Brooklyn Velden,

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Speaker 1: Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety. There's a woman unionist

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Speaker 1: on the news last night who was going, you know,

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Speaker 1: why don't they wait until the courts? And what's never

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Speaker 1: I never understood about particularly unionists like that is do

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Speaker 1: they not understand the ultimate court in this country is

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Speaker 1: the government. You can go to court too, your blue

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Speaker 1: in the face. We're seeing a lot of this with

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Speaker 1: the Waitangi Tribunal, which is not really a court, it's tribunal.

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Speaker 1: It's got no teeth. But nevertheless, people just wander off

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Speaker 1: thinking that they can because they don't like the law

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Speaker 1: of the day, they'll try and change it. They get

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Speaker 1: some sort of ruling or judgment from the court, interventionist

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Speaker 1: courts these days, and that encourages people, of course. And

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Speaker 1: this Uber case is a classic, and if you haven't

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Speaker 1: followed it, do follow it. Because four drivers are telling

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Speaker 1: the rest of the yuber workforce that what they like

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Speaker 1: and what they joined isn't good enough and they want

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Speaker 1: it different. And it looks like at this point anyway,

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Speaker 1: Uber's going to appeal. I think they're going to appeal,

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Speaker 1: but it looks like at this point, four drivers beats

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Speaker 1: out the hundreds of other drivers who took on an

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Speaker 1: arrangement that they were perfectly happy with because the union's

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Speaker 1: backed them. Free choice A remember that. For more from

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Speaker 1: The Mike Asking Breakfast, listen live to news talks. It'd

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