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Speaker 1: We got the deets yesterday on the Treaty's Principal's Bill.

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Speaker 1: The second principle says the Crown will respect and protect

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Speaker 1: the rights that Hapu and Ewe Mardy had under the

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Speaker 1: Treaty of Waitangi. However, and this is the crucial bit

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Speaker 1: that seem more got in there, if those rights differ

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Speaker 1: from the rights of everybody else in New Zealand, they

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Speaker 1: only apply where there's an agreed treaty settlement. Duncan Web's

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Speaker 1: the Labor Justice spokesperson. Big protest plans next planned next

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Speaker 1: week is with US Live this morning.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, good morning, How are you good?

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Speaker 1: Thank you? Are you going to join those protests?

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Speaker 2: I might get out there on the front lawn, but

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Speaker 2: you do get a seat in parliament. But I can

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Speaker 2: understand why those protests are happening. People are pretty angry

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Speaker 2: about this. It's a rewriting, right, just it's going backwards.

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Speaker 2: And you can't have the government sign something in eighteen

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Speaker 2: forty and then decide one hundred and eighty years later

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Speaker 2: later that it's not quite what they wanted and have

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Speaker 2: another crack.

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Speaker 1: But isn't that what the courts have been doing?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely not. I mean what you've got with the courts.

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Speaker 2: And you know, I've heard about the courts making stuff

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Speaker 2: up and so on, but that's not the case. You've

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Speaker 2: got two texts of the Treaty of Waitangi, one in English,

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Speaker 2: one in Marii. They're both valid and there's a fair

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Speaker 2: distance between them, so the courts have to navigate a

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Speaker 2: path between them. And so in doing that, they've read

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Speaker 2: them both and said, look, the guts of it is,

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Speaker 2: or if they would say in their fancy language, the

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Speaker 2: principles of the treaty are, and that's where you get

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Speaker 2: the principleship.

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Speaker 1: Is that a job for the courts? Is that a

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Speaker 1: job for the courts to interpret our founding document.

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Speaker 2: Look, if you have a contract you're right on the

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Speaker 2: back of an envelope to sell a business, there's going

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Speaker 2: to be a lot of gaps in it. And when

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Speaker 2: you get at the court to argue about it, they're

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Speaker 2: going to fill the gaps for you. This was a

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Speaker 2: contract between two nations signed on a single piece of

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Speaker 2: paper one hundred and eighty years ago. There are gaps,

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Speaker 2: there are things that aren't clear. It's absolutely the job

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Speaker 2: of the courts to patch it up and make sure

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Speaker 2: that what the parties intended is what it rolled out

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Speaker 2: and deliver us over time.

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Speaker 1: Is it a big deal that this has been brought forward.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's been brought forward a week. It's not is

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Speaker 2: it a big deal? It's just it's just we've had

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Speaker 2: the American election. So the front page of you in

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Speaker 2: your league stories and everyone's front page is the American.

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Speaker 1: Do you think it's they've done it, They've done it delivered.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's comms management.

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Speaker 1: Hepkins reckons it is not a big deal. It's just normal,

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Speaker 1: normal parliamentary process and you wouldn't expect it to have

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Speaker 1: been told there was a change of date anyway.

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Speaker 2: Well, who knows, but the reason for the change of

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Speaker 2: date was probably was probably to keep it on the

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Speaker 2: load down question. We've got we've got the heck quy

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Speaker 2: coming on the same day.

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Speaker 1: My question for you is you're the gist of the

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Speaker 1: argument is this is so divisive and the same from

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Speaker 1: the Pati Mardi and the Greens, so divisive that you

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Speaker 1: shouldn't go near it. Do you think co governance was divisive?

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Speaker 2: Well, co governance clearly ra the hackles of a section

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Speaker 2: of society.

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Speaker 1: And we're starting to and it didn't stop you doing it, though,

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Speaker 1: did it. I mean, so, it's not a reason not

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Speaker 1: to do something just because people might be upset by it.

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Speaker 1: I guess.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I would accept that, but if it's both divisive

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Speaker 2: and fundamentally wrong and depriving Mary of something that they

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Speaker 2: have actually been promised. So it's not just that it's

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Speaker 2: it's people, some people don't like it, it's that it's

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Speaker 2: fundamentally and constitutionally right. This isn't just some surface irritation.

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Speaker 2: This is going to the very heart of how we

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Speaker 2: form our nation and changing the foundation stones. And that's

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Speaker 2: why it's both divisive and deeply wrong.

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Speaker 1: Don'gan thank you very much for your time this morning.

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Speaker 1: Appreciate you coming on the show. That's Dunk and Web

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Speaker 1: Labour's justice spokesperson.

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Speaker 2: For more from Early Edition with Ryan Bridge.

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Speaker 1: Listen live to news talks that Be from five am weekdays,

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Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.