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Speaker 1: Which is the morning Prime ministers back in the country

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Speaker 1: and is with us. Very good morning to you.

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Speaker 2: Good morning Mike Howa, it's very well.

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Speaker 1: Thank you. The two hundred and eighty millionish you announced

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Speaker 1: yesterday for the various ideas around health. Where did that

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Speaker 1: come from? That can't be new money?

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Speaker 2: Well, there's actually four announcements there, three of it as

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Speaker 2: actually as new money. It's up against Budget twenty five

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Speaker 2: and the two hundred and eighty five million dollars to

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Speaker 2: open up to incentivize doctors to open up their books

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Speaker 2: more to new patients and things.

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Speaker 1: Is actually.

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Speaker 2: Is actually from existing money, the part of the seventeen

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Speaker 2: billion dollars extra that we've put in over the next

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Speaker 2: three years.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so the new money you must be right up

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Speaker 1: against the wire by now because you didn't have much

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Speaker 1: money to play with in the first place.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean, you'd all be revealed in the budget.

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Speaker 2: We put all the expenses and all the revenues together,

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Speaker 2: and we obviously announced it in May. But but what's

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Speaker 2: exciting here is that we're trying to put patients first.

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Speaker 2: We're trying to get key wes to be able to

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Speaker 2: get access to a doctor. You've got you know, weird

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Speaker 2: things might You got a one hundred doctors at least

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Speaker 2: in New Zealand that are actually driving ubers at the

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Speaker 2: moment that have done all that foundational doctor training overseas

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Speaker 2: and we've got to accelerate them into GP practices. You've

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Speaker 2: got four hundred graduate nurses that we're trying to open

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Speaker 2: up and incentivize doctors to take them into communities and

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Speaker 2: rural communities and cities as well. And then you know,

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Speaker 2: really there's some really cool innovation as you'd be aware

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Speaker 2: of and healthcare sector around digital twenty four to seven.

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Speaker 2: And frankly, if you want to see a doctor at

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Speaker 2: eleven thirty at night with a sick kid and get

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Speaker 2: your prescription an action on Satday morning, that's.

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Speaker 1: A cool technology. I mean, this is what I'm thinking yesterday.

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Speaker 1: Why down those teen years ago? I mean, to get

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Speaker 1: a script at nine thirty at night shouldn't really be

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Speaker 1: a well that what do we do moment? Should it?

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Speaker 2: It shouldn't be. But the point is the system needs

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Speaker 2: to have innovation from within it. There are some incredible

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Speaker 2: operators and entrepreneurs that are starting up in this space,

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Speaker 2: and you know the dealer is you know I was

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Speaker 2: thinking about the other day. You know, you get a

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Speaker 2: sinus in fiction, you need to see a GP. You know,

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Speaker 2: I can't do nine to five. I think many Keywis

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Speaker 2: can't to do that at eleven thirty on a Friday night.

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Speaker 2: Get your prescription, why to your pharmacist, pick it up

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Speaker 2: on Sunday morning, get going with your treatment. Fantastic, But

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Speaker 2: we should be able to do a lot more of it,

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Speaker 2: you know, And there's no reason why that's not the

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Speaker 2: way you disrupt the system and actually get people with

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Speaker 2: more access. And the benefit is if we can get

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Speaker 2: people to their GPS, they can see a doctor when

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Speaker 2: they need it. We're not clogging up our emergency apartments,

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Speaker 2: which is what's been happening. So yeah, I'm really excited.

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Speaker 2: It's a great initiative from Simeon. He's put six weeks

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Speaker 2: into the job. He's getting on top of what's a

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Speaker 2: tough system.

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Speaker 1: Well, that was my next question. How has it took?

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Speaker 1: It took Simmy in three and a half minutes, and

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Speaker 1: what was Shane doing all that time?

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Speaker 2: Well, in fairness, a lot of this Primary Care Package

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Speaker 2: or what's called primary care basically GPS and communities we

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Speaker 2: had started to put together back in late November December.

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Speaker 2: So you know, Simon's built on that, which is acknowledged.

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Speaker 1: I felt your frustration yesterday. You make a very good point.

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Speaker 1: You put you put seventeen billion billion into this two

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Speaker 1: thousand extra nurses and per head, you're going backwards. What's

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Speaker 1: what's the problem.

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Speaker 2: It's an insanely complex organization. So you know there's this

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Speaker 2: narrative out there that we're cutting healthcare service. It's absolute

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Speaker 2: total rubbish. We're putting seventeen billion more on top of

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Speaker 2: the twenty eight billion that already goes in. The Second

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Speaker 2: thing is if you just take nurses, people say, oh,

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Speaker 2: we're cutting nurses. No, we're not. We've actually had a

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Speaker 2: two thousand nurses in one year. Nurses pays up seventy

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Speaker 2: percent since twenty fourteen.

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Speaker 1: Gave yesterday. That's true, one hundred and twenty twenty.

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Speaker 2: Seven thousand, including overtime allowances, and quite new's argue with that.

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Speaker 2: Can you That's the point I'm trying to make is

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Speaker 2: that you know the narrative and people need to understand

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Speaker 2: and let's be clear. You know, we're up against unions

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Speaker 2: and we're up against people who are trying to say

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Speaker 2: everything we're doing is rubbish and healthcare and it's just

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Speaker 2: not true when we've actually increased remuneration for nurses to

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Speaker 2: one hundred and twenty seven doesn't including their allowances including

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Speaker 2: over time, that is on a comparable level to what

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Speaker 2: you'd get in New South Wales. And your New South

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Speaker 2: Wales is thirty five percent richer than us. So you know,

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Speaker 2: there is some good progress made on workforce recruitment and remuneration.

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Speaker 2: There's good progress on funding. There's plenty of money in

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Speaker 2: the system, but we're not getting the results and we're

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Speaker 2: not getting what patients want or need.

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Speaker 1: So is leaders doing amployee That's where Brown comes in,

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Speaker 1: and Brown doesn't doesn't have the faith in Levey or

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Speaker 1: whatever the case. I mean, is this being fixed on

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Speaker 1: because at the end of the day, we all want

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Speaker 1: good health, but there's got to be a limit. I

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Speaker 1: think you're right. It's thirty billion dollars in total. I mean,

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Speaker 1: how much is I mean, it can't be a bottomless pet.

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Speaker 2: No, but there is enough. What I'm trying to say

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Speaker 2: with those things that I announced yesterday and my opening

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Speaker 2: remarks was to get people to understand there is enough

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Speaker 2: money there is actually progress on the workforce front. That's

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Speaker 2: pretty impressive. And actually the issue is a system that's

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Speaker 2: actually grossly bureaucratic and highly inefficient, and so putting Lester

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Speaker 2: Levy in as a commissioner has been very important. We've

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Speaker 2: obviously got changes of the CEOs and the Director General

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Speaker 2: of Ministry of Health. That's really important. But we now

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Speaker 2: want this organization focused on patients. We want everything to

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Speaker 2: be patient first. And so you can talk about the money,

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Speaker 2: you can talk about remuneration, you can talk with unions

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Speaker 2: as much as you like, but at the end of

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Speaker 2: the day, the New Zealanders need to get access to doctors.

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Speaker 2: They need to be able to see faster wait times

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Speaker 2: for first surgeries, for first specialist appointments, for emergency departments.

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Speaker 2: Those things are the things that matter. So let's make

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Speaker 2: the organized focus on customers or patients, which I think

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Speaker 2: is you know, I know some of the media give

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Speaker 2: me grief when I use the word customer, but I

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Speaker 2: don't care. I mean, these are service organizations that needed

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Speaker 2: to liver for patients and for customers and for kiwis.

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Speaker 2: So it's a change in mentality.

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Speaker 1: Good school lunches, do we actually have a problem here

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Speaker 1: or is this a pile on from the unions, the

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Speaker 1: teachers and the media to make David Seymour look bad.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think the bottom line is lot some of

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Speaker 2: the lunches aren't up to scratch, but Seymour is all

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Speaker 2: across the issue. I've got every confidence.

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Speaker 1: When you say they're not up to scratch, what do

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Speaker 1: you mean.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean you get the I mean every day

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Speaker 2: we get a story of a particular lunch.

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Speaker 1: There is, yeah, but why do we get a story

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Speaker 1: every day? But we get a story every day because

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Speaker 1: someone's a whiner, don't we Well, well, is a genuine problem.

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Speaker 2: But look here's the deal. I mean, if you don't

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Speaker 2: like the lunches, actually just go make a mom ate

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Speaker 2: sandwich and put an apple on the bag. And as

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Speaker 2: a parent, I think parents should take responsible for feeding

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Speaker 2: their own kids. I'd rather the state didn't have to

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Speaker 2: do so. It should be a printal responsibility. But the

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Speaker 2: fact is that kids are actually coming to school no lunch.

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Speaker 2: I'm not willing to let them go hungry.

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Speaker 1: But this is what I get going that hungry kids

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Speaker 1: can't loan correct, Okay, fair enough, and when we do

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Speaker 1: something about it, we still whind some more that the

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Speaker 1: cellophane couldn't get done, and I'm hiring too many people

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Speaker 1: to distribute them. And the only simp of the IB

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Speaker 1: ever had is there like they should be on time.

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Speaker 1: I get that. Beyond that, you're just bitching, you're moaning.

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Speaker 1: If you don't want it, don't have it. So I

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Speaker 1: mean it was like it like a sandwich, right exactly.

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Speaker 1: So what does the government go if you're just going

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Speaker 1: to complain about this, We'll save the money, thanks very much.

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Speaker 1: Or is there an actual problem that Seymour needs to address.

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Speaker 2: No, there, you know, there are some lunches that are

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Speaker 2: not up to scratch and some delivery that's not up

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Speaker 2: to scratch, and David and I have talked about it

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Speaker 2: and he's all over the detail. I have got every

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Speaker 2: confidence he's going to get it sorted. And so he's

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Speaker 2: right to actually keep chasing those issues down and making

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Speaker 2: sure we're getting what we've contracted and the quality of

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Speaker 2: the product, as well as obviously the on time delivery

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Speaker 2: of it. So you know that's a reality. But I

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Speaker 2: just say to you, Yep, there's always going to be

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Speaker 2: people that are unhappy with school lunches. And I get that,

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Speaker 2: and if you really are unhappy with it, for God's sake,

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Speaker 2: go make a mummte sandwich and put an apple in

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Speaker 2: a bag, just like you and I had.

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Speaker 1: Peter's met with Hyundai. They may be in for some ships.

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Speaker 1: If they're in for some ships, do we get out

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Speaker 1: of paying a penalty for canceling?

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean there's a whole bunch of commercial negotiations

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Speaker 2: and all of that. Winston's got to the end of

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Speaker 2: March to come up with a better plan than the

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Speaker 2: one that we had and that we proposed at the

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Speaker 2: end of last year, which is to get rail compatible

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Speaker 2: fairies in place. So yeah, they'll be ongoing conversations. Let's

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Speaker 2: set them run through.

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Speaker 1: Hees he got something on the bubble though, because I

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Speaker 1: mean it is March.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, but he's got to the end of March

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Speaker 2: to come up with a better proposal that Trump's it.

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Speaker 2: And if he does, great, fantastic on board with that

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Speaker 2: within the envelope that we've talked about, and if not,

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Speaker 2: we've got a good plan.

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Speaker 1: Okay, just quickly on the war in your comments, don't

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Speaker 1: know all that's gone wrong in the last couple of days.

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Speaker 1: You're on the side of zelins Again, we're on the

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Speaker 1: side of Ukraine with a view specifically.

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Speaker 2: To what well. I mean, the bottom line is we're

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Speaker 2: a small country with limited is a long way away.

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Speaker 2: We ain't going to end this war, let's be clear

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Speaker 2: about it. But the principal point is that you can

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Speaker 2: go off to lots of meetings sounding off about your values,

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Speaker 2: democratic ideas, nation states, you know, international rules based system,

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Speaker 2: all that stuff, and you either stand up for it

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Speaker 2: or you don't. And so in our own way, we're

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Speaker 2: actually standing up with Zelenski. I've met him. He's a

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Speaker 2: pretty admirable chap He's I mean, how would you how

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Speaker 2: would we feel if we had a big power rock

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Speaker 2: in to New Zealand and beat us up for three years?

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Speaker 1: But how are you standing behind him on a stalemate?

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Speaker 1: This is a stalemate. It's a three year stalemate, and

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Speaker 1: if America walks, we're done. We're on the losing side

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Speaker 1: because he's going to get crushed within weeks. Is that

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Speaker 1: what you're going for?

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Speaker 2: No, we want the US and the Ukraine and Europe

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Speaker 2: working together on that, trying to secure a justin lasting

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Speaker 2: piece there that that's important for us. There's no doubt

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Speaker 2: all the players have an intention to do that. They

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Speaker 2: may have disagreements on how to go about it. That's

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Speaker 2: that's normal as a peace process is put together. But

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Speaker 2: I just say to you, Mike, if we were a

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Speaker 2: small country, I think we'd want to be at the

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Speaker 2: negotiating table and not have big powers to determine our fate.

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Speaker 2: I think, you know, if we'd been beat up for

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Speaker 2: three years in that way, we'd want to be at

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Speaker 2: that table. And I think that's not unreasonable.

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Speaker 1: Appreciate your time as always, Crystal Lux and Prime Minister.

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Speaker 1: For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to

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Speaker 1: news talks that'd be from six am weekdays, or follow

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Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio