1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,120 Speaker 1: As part of the mood of the boardroom, business leaders 2 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:05,320 Speaker 1: rank and ministers out of five. Education Immigration Minister Erica 3 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:07,240 Speaker 1: Stamford tops out at four point three add as we 4 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:09,200 Speaker 1: told you, Christopher lux And slipped to fifteenth to two 5 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,560 Speaker 1: point nine six. Finance Minister Nikola Willis came in thirteenth 6 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:15,160 Speaker 1: on three point zero nine, and Nicola Willis is with 7 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 1: us good morning. 8 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:17,119 Speaker 2: Good morning mate. 9 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:18,800 Speaker 1: So we look at the scores out of five. What's 10 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: the line for you, I mean, between this being a 11 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 1: game versus being real? Do you take a message in 12 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:23,400 Speaker 1: this or not? 13 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:27,200 Speaker 2: Well? I do because I'm someone who's always studied my 14 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 2: report cards hard and I always strive to be better 15 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 2: and for New Zealand, we need our businesses to be 16 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:36,560 Speaker 2: succeeding in order to get the jobs and income growth 17 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 2: that we want to see. So what our business leaders 18 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 2: are saying matters to me. Now, if this is one 19 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:46,159 Speaker 2: hundred and fifty people, we serve five million people. So 20 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 2: of course we also have to be thinking about a 21 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 2: broader range of interests. But certainly I'm interested in what 22 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:52,440 Speaker 2: business has to say. 23 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 1: Why are you thirteen not one? 24 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 2: Well, I think we're coming through a really difficult recovery. 25 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 2: I am the person responsible for getting us through that, 26 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 2: and I think until New Zealanders feel like that economic 27 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 2: recovery is behind us somewhere in the growth up swing, 28 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:12,280 Speaker 2: they're going to continue looking at me saying have you 29 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 2: done enough to fix it? So I take responsibility for 30 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:19,400 Speaker 2: both getting us through this cyclical downturn we've been in, 31 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 2: but also putting us on a higher track for productivity growth. 32 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 2: And I accept that people haven't seen all of that yet, 33 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:30,319 Speaker 2: and they want to see it. They're impatient, they're frustrated. 34 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 2: In some cases. I share their impatience. I share their 35 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:37,120 Speaker 2: desire to get this economy going, and we will let 36 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:39,360 Speaker 2: the results speak. When the results speak. 37 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:41,399 Speaker 1: Well, that's the problem. There aren't enough results, hence the 38 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:45,119 Speaker 1: headline mood shift on Willis's growth push. You've failed to 39 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:46,280 Speaker 1: this point, haven't you. 40 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 2: Well? When I look at what business are telling us 41 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 2: they want us to do, I'm convinced we are doing 42 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 2: the right things. And so if you think about the 43 00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 2: fast track regime, you think about the push to reduce regulation, 44 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 2: even just yesterday our Holidays Act changes, you think about education, 45 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:08,960 Speaker 2: none of these things are going to happen overnight, but 46 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 2: we are doing the reforms that people have told us 47 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 2: are necessary, attracting that overseas investment, ensuring that our science 48 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 2: system is smarter, making sure that the infrastructure pipeline has 49 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 2: a bit more of a ten to twenty year view. 50 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 2: You know, we have for the first time put out 51 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 2: twenty year health infrastructure plans, ten year education infrastructure plan. 52 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 2: These are the things that people tell us they want 53 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 2: to see. And there are some real bright spots in 54 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 2: this report, Mike. You know, Erica Stanford's outstanding work and 55 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:43,239 Speaker 2: education is recognized. Chris Bishop's work on the resource management 56 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 2: system is recognized. The stewardship that Mark Mitchell has provided 57 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 2: of the police, that Simeon Brown has provided of the 58 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:53,520 Speaker 2: health system, they're recognized. So it's not all doom and gloom, 59 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:55,520 Speaker 2: and I still think on the right track. 60 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:57,360 Speaker 1: No it is not. And I can counter that by 61 00:02:57,360 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 1: simply saying, if you look at the opposition, their school 62 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:01,120 Speaker 1: is even worse than don't look ready for government and 63 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 1: all that sort of thing. But what worries me, and 64 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:04,679 Speaker 1: I've said this to you and the Prime Minister many 65 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 1: many times, is that beyond the politics, there are some 66 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 1: of us who are actually quite desperate to see this 67 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 1: country do better, and we were promised a story in 68 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 1: twenty twenty five that simply hasn't eventuated. And that view 69 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:18,680 Speaker 1: is reflected in this morning's report, isn't it. 70 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, But you've also see in that report some really 71 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 2: positive things, businesses saying they're going to be investing more 72 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:28,080 Speaker 2: over the next twelve months than they have of the 73 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 2: previous twelve months. You see that recognition from Cambergray, who's 74 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 2: an independent economist, saying, look, the reality is that when 75 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 2: you fall from the dizzy heights of a sugar high 76 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 2: led by government high, government's bending, then there is a 77 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 2: come down. And all of those things are true. So 78 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 2: we see that the changes that we are making have 79 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 2: been helpful and tail ones for growth rather than head 80 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 2: ones for growth. Except but we accept we're not there yet. 81 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 2: We're absolutely pushing to get there faster. And what I 82 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 2: read in this report card is business broadly think the 83 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 2: government's doing the right things. They want us going fast, harder. 84 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 2: And I'll tell you who agrees with that. That's the 85 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 2: Prime Minister, and he's driving each of his ministers hard 86 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 2: on that agenda. 87 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 1: Are the matters the RB governors today? 88 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 2: Yes, I'm looking forward to that announcement, is she good. 89 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 2: I can tell you that the person whose gender will 90 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 2: be obvious when they stand up as of extremely high caliber. 91 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 2: They are of international standing, with huge experience, and I 92 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 2: have complete confidence they'll have a capability. 93 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:35,479 Speaker 1: Only reason why I asked that is making a female 94 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 1: thing still a thing, given that females do whatever they 95 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 1: want to do. And the more we make oh, it's 96 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 1: a female, the more we're insulting people who actually do 97 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 1: quite well who happen to be female. 98 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 2: Well as a woman who's in a senior role that 99 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 2: isn't always occupied by women. What I want people to 100 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 2: understand is I'm in that role because I'm the best 101 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:57,840 Speaker 2: person for the job. My gender is secondary, and I 102 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:02,159 Speaker 2: certainly expect that from any senior appointment to a role 103 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 2: so critically important. It shouldn't be seen simply through the 104 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:08,480 Speaker 2: lens of someone's gender. It should be seen through their 105 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:11,360 Speaker 2: capability and skills. But there's another thing, Mike, that I 106 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 2: will say is that I tell you, for my daughter 107 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:18,279 Speaker 2: and for many women around the country, they do quietly 108 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 2: say to me, Look, it makes a difference for us 109 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 2: to see you as a woman doing that job, because 110 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 2: it tells us that there's no space we can't occupy exactly, 111 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 2: So that. 112 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 1: Remins on balance. Is it a good thing? This is 113 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 1: like the All Blacks coach? Is it a good thing 114 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 1: that we've got somebody from off shore that they can 115 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:38,279 Speaker 1: see New Zealand as a genuine opportunity and we can 116 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:41,720 Speaker 1: still attract really world class talent versus oh, why didn't 117 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 1: we get a New Zealander. 118 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 2: Well, I've resolutely not commented on who it is yet, 119 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 2: but what is really encouraging is that there were candidates 120 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:55,360 Speaker 2: of international caliber for this role, which tells us that 121 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:59,159 Speaker 2: they still view one our Reserve Bank as being of 122 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:03,839 Speaker 2: good internetion, standing and reputation, and two that they see 123 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 2: New Zealand as a place that they would like to 124 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 2: live and associate their reputation with. So the fact that 125 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:13,600 Speaker 2: we had such outstanding candidates I think is a very 126 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 2: positive thing. 127 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:17,119 Speaker 1: Look forward to it. Nicoloilis who is the Economic Growth 128 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:20,360 Speaker 1: and Finance Minister? Of course, just to summarize what broadly 129 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 1: speaking you said in this CEO survey, councils are broken. 130 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:26,039 Speaker 1: I think we'd all agree with that. The number one 131 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 1: issue is energy price increases seven point one percent. That's 132 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 1: right up, It's the number one issue the cost of 133 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 1: doing business in terms of energy, and the government need 134 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:36,840 Speaker 1: to move on that dire I use the word nuclear 135 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:39,480 Speaker 1: and just waste my time. But nevertheless, and a stronger 136 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:42,040 Speaker 1: long term vision is what they want. They mark Luxan 137 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:44,480 Speaker 1: on a whole bunch of individual sort of things, maintains 138 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 1: coalition cohesion, keeps cabinet colleagues focused on delivery. He scores 139 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 1: very well in that, and it's sort of divergent if 140 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 1: you want to get into the weeds. His number overall 141 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:58,360 Speaker 1: isn't great, but when you look at what he's doing 142 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:02,719 Speaker 1: in the individual area, he scores quite well. So I 143 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:06,159 Speaker 1: don't know how the CEOs square that circle. For more 144 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 1: from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to news talks. 145 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 1: It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast 146 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio.