1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,800 Speaker 1: So it's an ugly read. The IPCA reported the mixed 2 00:00:02,800 --> 00:00:05,040 Speaker 1: skimming behavior as well as the actions of some senior 3 00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:08,160 Speaker 1: police of course serious failings and by and including former 4 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:11,440 Speaker 1: Commissioner Andrew Caster. Richard Chambers as the police Commissioner and 5 00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 1: is with us, good morning, good morning. So just for 6 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:18,160 Speaker 1: clarity's sake, you've been in the job one year. You're clean. 7 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 2: You knew nothing, absolutely nothing like I was briefed on 8 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 2: this matter two days before I started as the Commissioner 9 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:28,319 Speaker 2: of New Zealm Police at the end of November last year. 10 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 1: And what were you briefed on and what did you 11 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:31,640 Speaker 1: do and when did you do it? 12 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:35,239 Speaker 2: I was briefed on the fact that there was an 13 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 2: investigation under way and that you know, there had been 14 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 2: a complaint by a victim more than once earlier in 15 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 2: the year, that that had not been handled properly and 16 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 2: you know, reflected poorly on now former members of the 17 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:56,320 Speaker 2: New Zeale Police Executive. So the first priority was to 18 00:00:56,320 --> 00:00:58,640 Speaker 2: put the right systems and processes in place so that 19 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:04,120 Speaker 2: her complaint was taken seriously and the right people were investigating, 20 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:07,400 Speaker 2: with the right structure in place. That was critically important, 21 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 2: and of course running alongside that was a complaint to 22 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 2: the IPCA, and that, of course came out yesterday. 23 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:18,320 Speaker 1: So you spent the first year of your job cleaning 24 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:18,959 Speaker 1: the place up. 25 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:23,119 Speaker 2: Yes, I have done a bit of that. Nke feels 26 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 2: that way, certainly. 27 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 1: Can you or could you believe what you were walking into? 28 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 2: Look, I knew that I needed to reset the priorities 29 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:35,840 Speaker 2: in using on police. I needed to ensure that the 30 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 2: focus was on the front line. I knew all of that, 31 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 2: and I've done that. But yes, quite frankly, Look, I've 32 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:44,639 Speaker 2: spent a good champ of the last twelve months mopping 33 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 2: up some mess that occurred before my time, and I 34 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 2: take that in my stride. It's part of my job, right. 35 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 2: But you know, Look, there's fifteen thousand men, a woman 36 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 2: of New Zeum Polas did a great job that night 37 00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 2: for our country. My focus is on them, not self, 38 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 2: and and that's what you saw in this case. 39 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 1: I'm told it's limited to FIAB or six people. Is 40 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 1: that correct? 41 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 2: Correct? Yes? That is correct? 42 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 1: Have they all been dealt to or with? 43 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:14,639 Speaker 2: Fortunately most of those are former members of the News 44 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:18,360 Speaker 2: and Police executive have departed the organization. I'm very pleased 45 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:24,080 Speaker 2: about that. There are in the recommendations a request that 46 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 2: I sort of a recommendation that I instigate employment investigations. 47 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 2: There are three underway in relation to other members. 48 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 1: Is one is cost of one of those? Or is 49 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:36,240 Speaker 1: he now separate giving you works elsewhere? 50 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 2: Yes, he's separate now in his new role. That's a 51 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 2: matter between him and his employee of the Public Service Commission. 52 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: The woman and her complaint are still in court, aren't they. 53 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 2: So the messages that resulted in her being charged in 54 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:52,920 Speaker 2: the middle of last year, know that that is no 55 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 2: longer in the court. 56 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 1: So that has been taken out of the court and 57 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 1: resulved in some way, shape or form. Is there a 58 00:02:57,440 --> 00:02:59,640 Speaker 1: check being written? How does that being or how is that? 59 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 2: I reached out a legal representative late yesterday to express 60 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 2: an apology on behalf of the New Zealand Police for 61 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:10,799 Speaker 2: what had occurred. And I did say to him that 62 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 2: I had no doubt there will be further conversations at 63 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 2: an appropriate time in the future. 64 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 1: And did he say something like you bet their will. 65 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:21,400 Speaker 2: Well, you know he really appreciated my phone call. I mean, 66 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 2: that's the way I operate, and it's important that I 67 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 2: do reach out and express an apology and we didn't 68 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:29,640 Speaker 2: get into any detail, but I have no doubt that 69 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 2: we will be meeting in due course. So I would 70 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 2: like to express my apologies again, but in person. 71 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 1: Just as it just we're inundated with texts and there's 72 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 1: a lot of people asking a lot of questions. As 73 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 1: best you're able to explain, the government is clearer. The 74 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 1: government and the previous government are clear of this. So 75 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:48,800 Speaker 1: in other words, Stuart Nash, Ginny Anderson, Mark Mitchell didn't 76 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 1: appoint a bunch of crooks that they somehow knew were dodgy. 77 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 2: Oh look, that's not a matter for me, Mike to 78 00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 2: really comment on. I mean, you know, the thing is here, Yes, 79 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 2: the focus is on a former Deputy commissioner who who 80 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:09,840 Speaker 2: has behaved incredibly badly. The bit I really struggle with, 81 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 2: where is the personal responsibility for fronting up and saying, look, 82 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 2: there's some things here that I think you need to 83 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 2: know about that. I'm not proud of that. He never 84 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 2: did that as far as I'm aware. So you know, 85 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:24,040 Speaker 2: we can look at the system processes about appointing people, 86 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 2: but where's the personal responsibility, you know, I mean it's 87 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 2: an absolute privilege to serve new Zealand Police, but particularly 88 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:34,720 Speaker 2: at the most senior level. So it's an absolute disgrace 89 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:38,800 Speaker 2: that at no point there was honesty and integrity that 90 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:42,919 Speaker 2: one individual in particular who did not say this is 91 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:44,000 Speaker 2: a problem here. 92 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:47,839 Speaker 1: Well, who's the bigger thug here? Is it cost at 93 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:49,760 Speaker 1: or MC skimming? I mean, yes, MC skimming has been 94 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 1: dealt to and I can I see what you're saying, 95 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 1: but I mean, cost is costing you about it? What's 96 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:54,920 Speaker 1: that say about it? 97 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 2: Yes? Yep, Well, you know people will take from that 98 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:02,160 Speaker 2: what they will. I've certainly got a personal view. It's 99 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:06,839 Speaker 2: an absolute disgrace. It's lacking a leadership, it's lacking integrity, 100 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:09,600 Speaker 2: you know. So he's going to need to answer to that. 101 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:13,040 Speaker 1: Those fible six that we talked about. Is there an argument? 102 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 1: I hope my questions clear. Did they look at mixed 103 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:20,360 Speaker 1: schumming and in the heart of hearts believe them, or 104 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 1: did they look at mixed skimming and go hmm, possible, 105 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 1: but we're going to cover them anyway. 106 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 2: Oh look, I think there was a narrative that they 107 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 2: brought into that he you know that there had been 108 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:35,920 Speaker 2: some issues as a consequence of an affair that had 109 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:39,279 Speaker 2: occurred a number of years prior even that I knew 110 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:42,599 Speaker 2: nothing about. So I think they believed his narrative and 111 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 2: that clouded their judgment, their decision making. And they know 112 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 2: that he was being put forward as an ex commissioner 113 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 2: of police. I mean, goodness, gracious, I mean, can you 114 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:52,719 Speaker 2: just imagine what would have happened if that had occurred? 115 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 2: So I think they brought into a narrative that clouded 116 00:05:57,040 --> 00:06:00,920 Speaker 2: the you know, their own personal self and self interest. 117 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 2: And we have a poor victim who was reaching out 118 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 2: wanting to tell a story, and she was not taken seriously. 119 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 2: And now there is not the responsibility of my very 120 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:14,239 Speaker 2: very good investigators across the country who work with these 121 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 2: types of situations. It's the responsibility that the former executive 122 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 2: needs to own. And it's appalling. 123 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 1: Are you confident that that blindness that they portrayed is 124 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 1: limited just to mix skimming and no other complaints, people's situations, cases, 125 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 1: investigations or anything. 126 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 2: Well, certainly hope so, Mike, because. 127 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 1: Hotel is not quite enough. Are you clear? Are we 128 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:41,480 Speaker 1: clear that this is it? Or is there potentially more 129 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:43,920 Speaker 1: of we dug Well. 130 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 2: Look, my job right now is to ensure that I 131 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:50,479 Speaker 2: take on board or the recommendations and work swiftly to 132 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 2: put everything in place to ensure this that this never 133 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 2: happens again. And you know, in terms of other stuff 134 00:06:58,320 --> 00:06:59,720 Speaker 2: out there, well, I only know what I know. I'm 135 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 2: not a of anything else, and I've got I hope 136 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:04,559 Speaker 2: that that's not the case, because you know, the people 137 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 2: of New Zealand when they reach out to New Zealand Police, 138 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 2: deserve the best possible service they can get and they 139 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 2: need to be taken seriously. And I've been very clear 140 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 2: about that since I took over as the commissioner. Our 141 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 2: priority is supporting the frontline staff of my organization who 142 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 2: do this work day, day and night, and I'm really 143 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 2: proud of it. And you know my focus now, I'm 144 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:27,200 Speaker 2: going to be putting a new leadership team in place 145 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 2: and they all be working with me to help stare 146 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 2: New Zealand Police in the right direction and ensure that 147 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 2: these appalling situations never happen again. 148 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:40,120 Speaker 1: Appreciate your time as always, Richard Chambers, Police Commissioner. For 149 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:43,320 Speaker 1: more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to news 150 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 1: talks that'd be from six am weekdays, or follow the 151 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 1: podcast on iHeartRadio.