1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,360 Speaker 1: The Prime Minister is with us. Good morning morning Mike. 2 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:03,280 Speaker 2: How are you very well? 3 00:00:03,320 --> 00:00:06,000 Speaker 1: Indeed, just a couple of quickies on announcements over the 4 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:08,440 Speaker 1: weekend the Maori seats in New Zealand. First, how far 5 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:10,720 Speaker 1: off thinking about that is the National Party? 6 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:13,600 Speaker 3: Oh, look, hasn't been a major priority. We're sort of 7 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:15,600 Speaker 3: focused on powering up the economy and doing a few 8 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:17,479 Speaker 3: other things at this point. We will have a caucus 9 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:20,400 Speaker 3: conversation about it at some point, but for right now 10 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:22,159 Speaker 3: we're sort of focused on what New Zealanders want us 11 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:24,599 Speaker 3: to do, which is getting this economy moving. What's your 12 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 3: gut O, Look, I need to have a caucus conversation 13 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 3: because there'll be a range of views within the caucus, 14 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:33,160 Speaker 3: and that's you know that deserves proper consideration at some time. 15 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 1: Okay, act fewer departments, yes or no? 16 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:39,280 Speaker 3: Really open to doing what we can to improve the 17 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:41,199 Speaker 3: effectiveness of public service. I still think there's a long 18 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 3: way to go. Initially, the first two years has been 19 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 3: getting rid of consultants, getting the eleven billion of savings, 20 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:49,960 Speaker 3: getting the bureaucracy out, and putting the frontline resources. But 21 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:52,640 Speaker 3: look open to what we can do on the second 22 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:54,279 Speaker 3: term around improving the efficiency of. 23 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 2: The public service. I got a lot of appetite for that. 24 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 1: Why do we need twenty eight cabinet ministers, a bunch 25 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:00,040 Speaker 1: of whom don't even sit in the cabinet? 26 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 3: Well, actually, the bigger issue is how do you how 27 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 3: do you organize the public service in a way that 28 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:08,120 Speaker 3: delivers more effectiveness, and also how do you digitize it 29 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:10,639 Speaker 3: so it's much more. It treats itself as large service 30 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:14,200 Speaker 3: organizations that are customer focus, that are technology enabled. And 31 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:15,920 Speaker 3: then on the back of that, you'd work out how 32 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 3: many ministers you need to sort of run that system. 33 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 2: So I'd start there before I started. 34 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 1: The minister's do And what made his speech effective, I 35 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 1: think was that you promised a lot on public service cuts. 36 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 1: You effect cut two thousand and you could have done more. 37 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 1: You would have taken the same amount of grief. Did 38 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:34,199 Speaker 1: you miss a trick? 39 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:37,760 Speaker 3: Oh? Look, I think you know we've we've had to 40 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:40,360 Speaker 3: you know, there's been a massive amount of bureaucracy in 41 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:43,560 Speaker 3: that system. We've we've generated eleven billion of savings every 42 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 3: year we've been there. You know, it's enabled us to 43 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 3: put nine hundred more corrections offices in place by actually 44 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 3: you know, going after the back office and creating efficiencies 45 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 3: there to be spent on the front line. I think, 46 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 3: you know, we've gone hard after the consultants spend, you know, 47 00:01:57,080 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 3: and I think there's a number of things that we've done, 48 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 3: you know, really well, given in space of two years. 49 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 3: But I'm not denying there's more to do. I think, 50 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:06,639 Speaker 3: you know, we want a highly efficient New Zealand public 51 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:11,400 Speaker 3: service that is lean, very focused on delivery and certainly 52 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:14,640 Speaker 3: could use technology a lot more. When you think about 53 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 3: the power of AI and what you're seeing in the 54 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:18,800 Speaker 3: corporate business world in New Zealand and around the world, 55 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 3: there's just massive opportunity. I mean, why can't a thirty 56 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:24,360 Speaker 3: two year old mum just sort of say you have 57 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 3: a natural language inquiry about how does she get eyeglasses 58 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 3: for a nine year old? And what are working for 59 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 3: family tex credits? I mean, it's pretty simple stuff, but act. 60 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 1: Makes a lot into I mean, there is more room 61 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 1: to do, and you could argue that you've missed it. 62 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:38,800 Speaker 3: Well, I'd argue that I think we've made a good start. 63 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 3: I just argue there's more to do, right, and I'm 64 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:42,079 Speaker 3: up for that conversation. 65 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 1: The letter from labor over India. Is this real or 66 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:46,239 Speaker 1: are they playing games? 67 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 3: Look, I think it's pretty hard as leader of the 68 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 3: opposition to get attention at times is a bit of 69 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:53,800 Speaker 3: politicing over the letter. McLay has been talking to O'Connor, 70 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:56,640 Speaker 3: who's a season trade minister as well, over recent months. 71 00:02:56,880 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 3: They're talking more formally again this week and you know, 72 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 3: we'll continue to work through any issues or concerns they have. 73 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 2: But the big deal is a lot just fast forward ten. 74 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 3: Years from now. Are we going to step back and 75 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 3: say this was a terrible deal. Absolutely not, it's a 76 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 3: great deal. 77 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 1: The stuff they're talking about though, the treatment of migrants 78 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 1: proper university courses, is that anything that's an actual problem? 79 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:21,920 Speaker 3: No? No, I mean there's three components to the labor mobility. 80 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 3: There's these temporary employment entry visas. You know, there's no 81 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 3: way that they can bring in thousands of family members 82 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:29,839 Speaker 3: off the back of that. I've seen you know once 83 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 3: another's talk about that that's untrue. There's equally the international students. 84 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 3: There's no change to what. 85 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 2: We do today. Really we get to control all of that. 86 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 3: And then on the working holiday visa scheme, we have 87 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 3: forty five other countries similar schemes and it's very aligned 88 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 3: with all of that. So yeah, but listen, let's we'll 89 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 3: work through their issues. Let maclay and I kind of 90 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 3: have a go at it first. 91 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 1: And do you see the iron I mean the irony 92 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 1: and this this is everything that's wrong with the country, 93 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 1: isn't it? For years we bleeded on about getting a 94 00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 1: deal with India. The moment we get a deal with 95 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 1: INDIAU coalition partner doesn't want to bar but and the 96 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 1: other guys are playing dumb games. I mean, we want 97 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 1: to get on with life or we don't. 98 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 3: Correct, correct, and you know, honestly, just you know, blind Freddy, 99 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 3: if you take a step back, look at this thing cold, 100 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 3: this is really awesome for New Zealand. We're growing with 101 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 3: the growing economy. It's going to be the third biggest 102 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:17,360 Speaker 3: in the world. It's got one and a half billion people. 103 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 3: It's going from four hundred and forty million to seven 104 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:21,360 Speaker 3: hundred and fifty million in the middle class living like 105 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 3: middle class New Zealanders who want New Zealand products and services. 106 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 3: And we've done a great deal. And when you line 107 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:29,040 Speaker 3: it up versus what indias ogne with other countries, I'm. 108 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 2: Really, really proud of this, so you know it's about. 109 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:33,840 Speaker 3: I guess you know there were people who posing the 110 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 3: China Free Trade Deal back in the day. There was 111 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:39,600 Speaker 3: people who are posing the CPTPP deal. Honestly, this is 112 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:41,719 Speaker 3: New Zealand is a trading nation. One and four of 113 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:44,600 Speaker 3: our jobs come from trade. We just got to get 114 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:46,919 Speaker 3: on board and we've done a kick ass job getting 115 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 3: this thing together. But yeah, we'll work through their concerns. 116 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:51,840 Speaker 3: But you know, it's not about politics. This is really 117 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 3: about New Zealand. And yeah, it's frustrating sometimes when you 118 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:57,480 Speaker 3: don't see people get on board with growth and positivity 119 00:04:57,480 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 3: and a vision and can do and ambition. 120 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:01,839 Speaker 1: Can you explain to me why your party and in 121 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 1: the New Zealand First and Act both all campaigned on 122 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 1: this business of the morification if you like, of New Zealand. 123 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 1: And yet we find out last week that OT's got 124 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 1: cultural leave and any number of government departments have got 125 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 1: cultural leave and if you're maor you get unlimited cultural leave. 126 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 1: No questions asked, how is that still possible to go 127 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:21,839 Speaker 1: three years into your government. 128 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:25,040 Speaker 3: Well, it's a legacy of the last government. And as 129 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:28,160 Speaker 3: the employment schemes come up for negotiation, right, because that's 130 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:31,360 Speaker 3: sort of two three year terms. That's when this information 131 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 3: gets surfaced, and so I got to say it doesn't 132 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 3: sit right with me at all. I've actually asked my 133 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 3: office to talk to the Public Service Commissioner about it 134 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 3: and to say what options have we got to end it. 135 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 3: I certainly expect going forward there'll be not featuring in 136 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:47,359 Speaker 3: any new contracts, and I certainly expect that it'll be 137 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:51,840 Speaker 3: removed when existing contracts are renegotiated. I mean, it's just 138 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 3: a bit bananas. It's not really when it's a bit, 139 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 3: just a bit silly and so, but it's a locked 140 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:58,920 Speaker 3: in feature of how the last government locked into employment 141 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:01,240 Speaker 3: contracts with unions, and that's just not right. 142 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:03,480 Speaker 1: No, it is not. I appreciate your time, Christopher Lux 143 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:05,839 Speaker 1: and Prime Minister a couple of other things. Just briefly. 144 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:09,920 Speaker 1: I know it happened, Frider, but you can't hide from 145 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:12,839 Speaker 1: the Golden visa good news story. Five hundred and seventy 146 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:16,719 Speaker 1: three applications, three point thirty nine billion dollars coming our way, 147 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:21,360 Speaker 1: one point oh five billions already committed. So that's work 148 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:24,560 Speaker 1: to treat. All they did was change the settings investments 149 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 1: coming from places like the US, Germany, Southeast Asia and China. 150 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 1: The housing thing March six changes, so some of these 151 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:34,160 Speaker 1: people have got a few dollars will be able to 152 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 1: buy something expensive in a place like Auckland or Queenstown. 153 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:41,279 Speaker 1: Interesting article also, and I didn't have time to cover 154 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 1: it off with the Prime Minister this morning. But importing gas, 155 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 1: this is the LNG discussion. Most of the damage from 156 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:52,920 Speaker 1: dwindling gas supplies has already occurred, so the inference of 157 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 1: the article. Look it up, it's well worth reading. The 158 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 1: inference of the article is that the damage has been done. 159 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 1: The companies that were affected have moved on to other areas. 160 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 1: Since partners they were hired to model regional and economic 161 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 1: outcomes pleasant methodics, balance UREA plants, they're already closed down. 162 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 1: Fonterra is electrifying the gas boilers. Other gas intense abusers 163 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 1: have switched fuel. So in other words, they've already gone 164 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 1: and done their thing. So is there any actual point 165 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 1: of bringing in LNG in a dry year? So much 166 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 1: of that adjustment's already happened. It means much of the 167 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 1: economic cost of higher gas prices have already been born 168 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:33,480 Speaker 1: by the industries and regions. So I don't know how 169 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 1: smart the whole thing looks at the end of the day. 170 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 1: For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to 171 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 1: news talks that'd be from six am weekdays, or follow 172 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio.