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Speaker 1: Now the answer to the cost of pension problem that

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Speaker 1: we've got in the country may well be means testing

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Speaker 1: super it turns out that nine thousand people aged sixty

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Speaker 1: five plus are earning more than two hundred thousand dollars

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Speaker 1: a year and presumably still taking the pension. Now, the

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Speaker 1: Retirement Commissioner Jane writes and doesn't hate the idea. Hi, Jane, Hi, Ever,

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Speaker 1: at what point would you means tested?

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Speaker 2: I would not means test straight away. My point is

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Speaker 2: that we need to look at this as a systemic,

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Speaker 2: wide issue. Right I'm one record is saying that we

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Speaker 2: should keep the retirement a pension eight at sixty five

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Speaker 2: if there is a really strong economic argument that we

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Speaker 2: can't afford it, and I think it's a highly debatable one,

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Speaker 2: but let's say for a moment there is. Then we

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Speaker 2: need to look at a basket of options to make

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Speaker 2: it the fairest possible solution. So if we put it

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Speaker 2: up to sixty seven, the next question is who does

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Speaker 2: it hurt. If it hurts women, absolutely, because of our

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Speaker 2: patchier retirement savings and a time out of the workforce,

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Speaker 2: that it's women, Marty Pacifica and people who work manually

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Speaker 2: of course, whose bodies were out a bit earlier, So

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Speaker 2: I'd want to see an actual addressing of those issues

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Speaker 2: at the same time. And if you're going to do that,

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Speaker 2: then one of the other policy options is of course,

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Speaker 2: means testing. So if you're earning quite a lot of money,

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Speaker 2: then it's a fair question to go should you be

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Speaker 2: able to claim the super as well? And generally speaking,

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Speaker 2: there are two answers to that. One is I worked

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Speaker 2: all my life and therefore just you'll ave to go

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Speaker 2: and thank you very much, and that's an argument. And

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Speaker 2: the other one is going, if you're earning more than

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Speaker 2: say one hundred and eighty thousand dollars a year, and

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Speaker 2: you're claiming the super, then the cost of the taxpayer

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Speaker 2: might be questioned.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, now, Jane, I think I don't think that

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Speaker 1: we should touch the pension and it should stay exactly

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Speaker 1: where it is. So I want I'm just telling you

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Speaker 1: this so that you can furiously agree with me if

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Speaker 1: you want to. I'm not going to fight with you.

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Speaker 2: I agree with you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, talk to me about why you think it's possibly affordable,

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Speaker 1: because I do too.

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Speaker 2: Well. The forecasts are all black hats and doom glooms. Right,

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Speaker 2: So all the Treasury forecasts and all the economists look

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Speaker 2: at it from a thirty forty to fifty year cycle

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Speaker 2: and go, we can't aford it on the current trajectory.

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Speaker 2: And I go, maybe there's two things to think about here. Firstly,

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Speaker 2: this is about government choices, so we would have to

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Speaker 2: actively choose not to support older people in their in

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Speaker 2: their in their senior years. Okay, you can make that choice.

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Speaker 2: And secondly, the assumptions around this are all so long

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Speaker 2: term that I go, I don't know any piece of

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Speaker 2: long term thinking. Actually, mostly in my life that's been right.

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Speaker 2: They're just very good educated guesses. So that means I

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Speaker 2: don't think that there is a crisis brewing. If there is,

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Speaker 2: if we fall into a five year recession, then we

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Speaker 2: start to go, yes, now maybe there's an issue, But

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Speaker 2: right now I think we go ups and downs all

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Speaker 2: the rest of it, and we need to keep thinking

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Speaker 2: about what the core question is, which is how do

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Speaker 2: we want to treat older people in New Zealand.

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Speaker 1: To write Jane Preach, Thank you, Jane Writes and Retirement Commissioner.

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Speaker 2: For more from Heather Duplessy, Allen Drive, Listen live to

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