1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,080 Speaker 1: We got the report into the pylon debarcle lays the 2 00:00:02,080 --> 00:00:03,960 Speaker 1: blame at the feet of Transpower, which, as I said 3 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:06,120 Speaker 1: before the new strikes me as slightly odd. The argument 4 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:08,399 Speaker 1: is too much reliance on contractors and the fact too 5 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:10,440 Speaker 1: many bolts have been removed more than once, and the 6 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:12,959 Speaker 1: fact of Transpower employee had of course raised the issues 7 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: back in two thousand and one, but seemingly was ignored anyway. 8 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 1: Trustpowers Executive General Manager of Grid Delivery Mark Ryle is 9 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:19,240 Speaker 1: with us. 10 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:19,440 Speaker 2: Marke. 11 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:23,480 Speaker 1: Good morning to you, morning Mike. The twenty twenty one warning. 12 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: First of all, why do you know wasn't that acted on? 13 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I'll put some facts out there around that. 14 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:32,199 Speaker 2: For some of the rhetoric from the press conference isn't 15 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 2: quite accurate. So we've a hundred engineers for contexts, and 16 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 2: you know, we run a continuous improvement culture. So then 17 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 2: making a recommendation around an improvement of something that's quite common. 18 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:46,520 Speaker 2: In this case, the recommendation was round a coating's practices 19 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:48,680 Speaker 2: course a how you apply the coating product to a 20 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:53,160 Speaker 2: foundation was made through the grid Skills Manager at the time. Now, 21 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 2: the decision was obviously made not to take that forward. 22 00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 2: That person's left the business, so I can't ask them, 23 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 2: But that decision makes sensevents the responsibility of our contractual 24 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:06,039 Speaker 2: framework if the staff being competent in training sits with 25 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 2: the service providers. In this case mex On, we have 26 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:13,480 Speaker 2: grid Skills, which provides transmission specific competency training, how people 27 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 2: access equipment, how they can be safe around high voltage, 28 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:19,640 Speaker 2: all those sort of specific things, out to paint a 29 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 2: tower out of paint to foundation, how to drive an 30 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 2: e WP, even basic supervits for training that sits with 31 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:28,760 Speaker 2: the service providers as expected, because that's their competency. We're 32 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:32,039 Speaker 2: not skilled in flying coteins. So this course it wasn't 33 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 2: a warning around taking too many nuts off. It wasn't 34 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 2: a warning around unsafe practices. If that had been raised, 35 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 2: that would have gone down a different shot in the company, 36 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:41,160 Speaker 2: and I either one hundred percent confidence that would have 37 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:44,120 Speaker 2: been escalated to me or through my business very quickly. 38 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 2: From an operational and safety perspective, you know, all the 39 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 2: information we've looked at does not confirm this practice is common. 40 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 2: In fact, the exact opposite hasn't been common. Apart from 41 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 2: this one small group over four jobs in Northland between 42 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 2: late May and early June, and obviously we saw the 43 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 2: unfortunate circumstances of that coming together. Correct. 44 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:05,560 Speaker 1: Have you talked in the ensuing period since the day 45 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 1: it happened with a MIXIM and got to your satisfaction 46 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 1: and explanation as to why they hired people they didn't train. 47 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, of course we have. We released our investigation 48 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 2: report six weeks ago and all this information was contained 49 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:23,639 Speaker 2: within it. We've worked with a mix ON, They've done 50 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 2: an independent investigation. They've got a long list of recommendations 51 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 2: that they are working actively on. We're as well focused 52 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 2: on our recommendations. The reality is you do need to 53 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:35,440 Speaker 2: be able to train people on the job, otherwise no 54 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:37,919 Speaker 2: one can ever become competent. But as someone that is 55 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 2: a trainee, they need to be under direct supervision. In 56 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:44,519 Speaker 2: this case, the trainee wasn't adequately supervised. The work order 57 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:47,400 Speaker 2: approved the job. The information transparer had was that a 58 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 2: competent supervisor and two people with foundation competency we're going 59 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:53,119 Speaker 2: to do the task. What turned up on the job 60 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:56,240 Speaker 2: was a competent supervisor and two trainees. This was an 61 00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:58,400 Speaker 2: adequate and this is one of the key findings. The 62 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 2: root cause of the event, were not following procedures and practices. 63 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 2: If that follows their procedures, how I would have never 64 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:08,080 Speaker 2: before come to both the reports. 65 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:10,079 Speaker 1: And I'm just wonder if we're convoluting too much here 66 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 1: because it's not actually that complex. You had people who 67 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:14,919 Speaker 1: didn't do their job properly. I and from the text 68 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 1: everyone disagrees with me, but I argue it's it's I mean, 69 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 1: ultimately it is your fault because you hire these people 70 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 1: and your your ultimately responsible buck stops at the top. 71 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:26,239 Speaker 2: I get that, and we're not abiding it. We're not 72 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 2: avoiding that. 73 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 1: At some point, when you hire people to do something, 74 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:32,399 Speaker 1: you've got to have a level of trust that they're 75 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 1: going to do it, don't you. Therefore it's on them, Yes, 76 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 1: you do. 77 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 2: We have a robust quality assurance program and we do 78 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 2: hundreds and hundreds of independent audits of work throughout every year. 79 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 2: We have thousands of interactions where our job manager are 80 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 2: out there inspecting site. Unfortunately, in a small package of work, 81 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 2: nobody visited that site. The service providers have their own 82 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 2: assurance programs. It should have picked it up. So look, 83 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 2: we have taken that on board and we are reviewing 84 00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 2: all our assurance programs, seeing do we need to do more. 85 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 2: We're looking at how we can get better. Obviously you 86 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 2: need to stop on one of these investigations at the people. 87 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 2: You look right through your organization and right through spros 88 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 2: organization and identify those things we can improve and we're 89 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 2: focused on doing that. 90 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 1: Okay, have a mixed some sacked in your body. 91 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 2: They haven't sacked these people at the moment. They are 92 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:18,280 Speaker 2: supporting them through the process. They're not through the process 93 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 2: on our assets. Well, I guess I mean the crew 94 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:25,160 Speaker 2: lessns never go out to do something like this, right, 95 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:28,000 Speaker 2: They don't need to have an outcome like this. The 96 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:29,839 Speaker 2: training is need training before they can do work. 97 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 1: Your fantastic this must have occurred to you. I have 98 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 1: no training in doing this, but I can tell you 99 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 1: something for nothing, I wouldn't undo all the bolts for 100 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:42,279 Speaker 1: what I would argue are pretty bloody obvious reasons. 101 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 2: Yes, Look, I've arrived on the site from the next 102 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 2: and it's one look at that tower and arrangement and 103 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:53,360 Speaker 2: absolutely should never and that is one of the things 104 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 2: we need to work through. How could a fully confident 105 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 2: supervisor line mechanic been trained on loading rigging all those 106 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 2: kind of things leading a crew that this could happen, 107 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 2: and that's you know, one of the fundamentals. 108 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 1: He wasn't paying attention. He was in the cab having 109 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 1: a sandwich. 110 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 2: I bet wasn't he Well, he was water blasting at 111 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 2: the time, so he had a mask on water basking, 112 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 2: and the trainee continued to take nuts off unsupervised and 113 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:19,839 Speaker 2: went too far, as on the findings from the investigation. 114 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:25,280 Speaker 1: So the sky's on the water blaster standing the watching 115 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 1: a guy ond nuts and at no points does he 116 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 1: go that's quite a lot of nuts. I wonder if 117 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 1: that's too many. 118 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:34,040 Speaker 2: Well, he's blasting the tower, he's got a mask gone, 119 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 2: So the explanations he's not actually supervising this. The number 120 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:41,159 Speaker 2: of the time he's focused on the water blasting. So 121 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 2: the trainee's gone and removed nuts without supervision, which is 122 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:46,799 Speaker 2: you know, the fundamental failing here that led to the tower. 123 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 1: Well where are we at with compensation for the Northland region? 124 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, look, as you know Electricita, Well, first of all, 125 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:57,040 Speaker 2: impossible to guarantee supply one hundred percent of the time. 126 00:05:57,120 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 2: We really loved and we tried very hard across his 127 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:05,720 Speaker 2: the three to do that. There's okay, ially agree and 128 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 2: we understand that. But I guess there's the value you 129 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 2: have heard some of the numbers are coming out from 130 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:14,600 Speaker 2: the investigation potential loss. You know, the value that electricity 131 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 2: adds is hugely higher than what we actually charged for 132 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 2: the service. So what that conversation it will be. There's 133 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 2: no mechanism within the existing framework to provide that. THEA 134 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 2: report looked into conversations, makes no recommendations to change anything. 135 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 2: You know, in essence, if we paid conversation, the cost 136 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 2: will have to be picked up by other consumers. And 137 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 2: you've got evidence of the governance or reduced dividence government. Yes, 138 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:48,560 Speaker 2: of course we have insurance and do that well. We 139 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:53,239 Speaker 2: are working actively and some of my colleagues are hidden 140 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:54,720 Speaker 2: meetings in the northern today. We've been working with the 141 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:57,480 Speaker 2: community up there. We're looking to put some investment in 142 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:01,159 Speaker 2: the community. You know, sorry about this event. 143 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:08,160 Speaker 1: Now you're dodging me. So if you've got insurance and 144 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 1: you cocked it up, you've got to put it right, 145 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 1: because it's the putting right that counts. 146 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 2: Yep. You look, we just obviously insurance. All businesses do 147 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 2: that as mechanism we have under existing frameworks. As you know, 148 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 2: we are looking to put some community funding into the 149 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 2: community and we don't have an ability within our framework 150 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 2: to pay compensation. It's practical. 151 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 1: I guess what about I don't understand why you Why 152 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 1: don't you make a claim with the insurance company. They 153 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:42,800 Speaker 1: already told you they're not going to pay. 154 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 2: No, I'm not aware of that fact. 155 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:47,320 Speaker 1: So you haven't even inquired. 156 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 2: No, I'm not letting the insurance part of the business. 157 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:52,679 Speaker 2: But no, I don't believe that's the case. 158 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 1: So wouldn't wouldn't that be the next route you'd want 159 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 1: to follow if you wanted to do the right thing. 160 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 2: Yes, well, well, are obviously working through those outcomes. We're 161 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 2: looking to work with the community on putting some investment 162 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 2: into Northland around that. 163 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 1: Okay, what's the time frame? 164 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 2: Is the effect the effect of the mona into the 165 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:12,520 Speaker 2: effect of the guess to make that. But then our 166 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 2: tepee mechanism, but the Electrocity Authority put together and we're 167 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 2: working through way we capture our costs. We don't have 168 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 2: a mechanism to do this, so you know that change 169 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 2: could come from the Ultroscy Authority or from government. 170 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 1: All right, what any timeframe. 171 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 2: What's around? 172 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 1: Sorry, what the timeframe? So it doesn't drag on for 173 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:32,320 Speaker 1: months on and and you keep coming up out programs 174 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:33,959 Speaker 1: like this going oh yeah, we're still talking about it. 175 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:37,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, the meetings to the North End, I think 176 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 2: over the next couple of days and then we should 177 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 2: have an announcement around that. 178 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 1: Eminently fantastic next week. All right, we'll stay in touch. 179 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:43,640 Speaker 2: Mark. 180 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:47,319 Speaker 1: Appreciate that Mark Ryle, who's the Transpwer executive general manager 181 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:49,960 Speaker 1: and loving every minute of his job. 182 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:53,439 Speaker 2: For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to 183 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 2: news talks there'd be from six am weekdays, or follow 184 00:08:56,679 --> 00:08:58,199 Speaker 2: the podcast on iHeartRadio