WEBVTT - Leighton Smith Podcast #267 - November 27th 2024 - David Seymour 0:00:09.133 --> 0:00:12.013 You're listening to a podcast from news talks it be. 0:00:12.413 --> 0:00:16.373 Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio. 0:00:16.733 --> 0:00:19.733 It's time for all the attitude, all the opinion, all 0:00:19.773 --> 0:00:24.853 the information, all the debates of the down the Layton 0:00:24.973 --> 0:00:27.533 Smith podcast powered by news talks it. 0:00:27.613 --> 0:00:30.533 B Welcome to podcasts two hundred and sixty seven for 0:00:30.893 --> 0:00:34.693 twenty seven November twenty twenty four. You know when the 0:00:34.733 --> 0:00:40.293 New Zealand Parliamentary debating chamber was reduced to a comedic stage. Recently, 0:00:41.053 --> 0:00:44.173 the whole world took notice. Over the years, this country 0:00:44.213 --> 0:00:47.973 has been ridiculed on numerous occasions, more so during the 0:00:48.333 --> 0:00:51.013 adern administration. And come to think of it, there have 0:00:51.133 --> 0:00:56.813 been numerous counts of New Zealand politicians in particular making 0:00:56.853 --> 0:01:01.373 this country appear as a non civilized backwater. But the 0:01:01.453 --> 0:01:05.973 latest event stands isolated in the ranks of stupidity. The target, 0:01:06.093 --> 0:01:10.733 David Seymour, deserves congratulating for his demeanor. The patience of 0:01:10.893 --> 0:01:14.413 mister Speaker was too much to bear. His inability to 0:01:14.933 --> 0:01:22.173 enforce suspension of the perpetrator exemplifies many failings in our system. Unfortunately, 0:01:22.733 --> 0:01:27.573 surrender was the worst option I've had Inquiries from friends, family, 0:01:27.613 --> 0:01:31.773 and from listeners overseas as to what the heck is 0:01:31.813 --> 0:01:34.253 happening to New Zealand, and I would bet that many 0:01:34.293 --> 0:01:37.853 of you have also, So for those who don't understand 0:01:37.933 --> 0:01:41.373 the position we find ourselves in, David Seymour, the Act 0:01:41.413 --> 0:01:45.933 Party leader, provides answers to most of those questions. He is, 0:01:46.173 --> 0:01:49.453 after all the man of the moment with the Treaty 0:01:49.573 --> 0:01:54.013 Principle's Bill. But first Cop twenty nine has just concluded 0:01:54.133 --> 0:01:59.373 in Maaku in Azerbaijan. As usual, there were a dramatic 0:01:59.493 --> 0:02:02.933 number of people there, far more than is necessary, and 0:02:03.213 --> 0:02:06.293 it cost megabucks, as it always does huge And I 0:02:06.373 --> 0:02:09.253 might touch on some of that the back end of 0:02:09.253 --> 0:02:11.773 the podcast, but I want to give you an example 0:02:11.813 --> 0:02:14.493 of why all this is a waste of time. It's 0:02:14.533 --> 0:02:16.973 one of many, many, many, but it's the most recent 0:02:17.013 --> 0:02:21.173 that's come to the hand. It was published today November 0:02:21.213 --> 0:02:25.253 twenty seven, written by Frank Battini, who was a forester 0:02:25.413 --> 0:02:29.613 and environmental scientist, previously an adjunct professor of environmental science 0:02:29.973 --> 0:02:34.013 at a Murdoch College or the Murdoch University in Western Australia. 0:02:35.053 --> 0:02:38.773 It's published in Quadrant magazine and I'll give you a 0:02:38.813 --> 0:02:43.573 bit more detail. I remember at the end headed bad 0:02:43.653 --> 0:02:49.093 models and worse science in West Australia. Within government, academia 0:02:49.133 --> 0:02:51.853 and the media. In Western Australia, it is now virtually 0:02:51.973 --> 0:02:57.573 an undeniable truth that rainfall in the southwest of the 0:02:57.613 --> 0:03:01.373 state is in permanent decline and that this is caused 0:03:01.373 --> 0:03:04.973 by increased levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. The 0:03:05.013 --> 0:03:09.693 premise is that only net zero by twenty fifty will 0:03:09.693 --> 0:03:15.213 correct the situation. However, this is a deception based on 0:03:15.413 --> 0:03:19.453 flawed models and failure to consider long term rainfall records. 0:03:20.213 --> 0:03:23.053 Rainfall data collected over a period of one hundred and 0:03:23.093 --> 0:03:29.733 sixty years support an alternative hypothesis. Rainfall patterns follow multidecadaled cycles, 0:03:30.333 --> 0:03:32.653 and there have been many periods in our history when 0:03:32.693 --> 0:03:36.293 the climate has been wetter or drier than average. As 0:03:36.333 --> 0:03:39.773 I will outline below, my attempt to discuss this alternative 0:03:39.813 --> 0:03:45.133 scenario with model makers and government have been fruitless. Simply put, 0:03:45.453 --> 0:03:50.333 climate modelers and proponents of climate change are in the 0:03:50.533 --> 0:03:55.733 ascendency and they choose to ignore the empirical data because 0:03:56.453 --> 0:04:02.013 you're ready, because their models cannot explain it. In this discussion, 0:04:02.093 --> 0:04:04.813 I start with four things about which the model makers 0:04:04.813 --> 0:04:08.293 and I agree. I don't dispute the carbon dioxide SEE 0:04:08.333 --> 0:04:11.013 two is one of the greenhouse gases, although by far 0:04:11.533 --> 0:04:15.373 not the most dominant. I agree that rainfall has been 0:04:15.453 --> 0:04:19.013 generally below long term averages over the last or over 0:04:19.093 --> 0:04:23.493 recent decades. I also agree that without greenhouse gases, our 0:04:23.533 --> 0:04:28.213 earth would be inhospitably cold and humans would not have evolved. 0:04:28.813 --> 0:04:33.093 And finally, CO two is not a dangerous pollutant. It 0:04:33.133 --> 0:04:36.933 is a key ingredient in the process of photosynthesis, without 0:04:36.973 --> 0:04:40.373 which all humans would die. Do they teach that to 0:04:40.493 --> 0:04:43.013 kids in school when they teach the other crap? He 0:04:43.093 --> 0:04:45.693 goes on. Where the model makers and I disagree, however, 0:04:45.973 --> 0:04:49.533 is with the assertion that our below average rainfall, which 0:04:49.573 --> 0:04:53.533 they call a drying trend since nineteen seventy, is a 0:04:53.573 --> 0:04:57.253 result of rising levels of CO two and increased temperature. 0:04:58.093 --> 0:05:04.173 The WA Department of Water and Environmental Regulation reduced to 0:05:04.533 --> 0:05:08.333 dwer or clearly believe this. Indeed, they go even further. 0:05:08.693 --> 0:05:11.853 Their climate model makers project a trend line of further 0:05:11.933 --> 0:05:16.053 decreases in rainfall via up to fifteen percent by twenty thirty, 0:05:16.253 --> 0:05:18.573 and by a further twenty five to forty five percent 0:05:18.613 --> 0:05:23.653 by twenty ninety, depending on whether intermediate or high emission 0:05:23.733 --> 0:05:28.933 scenarios of carbon dioxide are used in their model. The 0:05:29.133 --> 0:05:32.493 post nineteen seventy decline in rainfall in the southwest of 0:05:32.573 --> 0:05:35.253 West Australia is said to be the most extreme in 0:05:35.293 --> 0:05:38.853 Australia and likened by Duur to the Canary in the 0:05:38.893 --> 0:05:42.893 coal mine. It is receiving special attention and attracting funds. 0:05:43.173 --> 0:05:46.333 The WA government has recently funded a three million dollar 0:05:46.413 --> 0:05:50.533 climate change initiative study, the aim being to further refine 0:05:50.773 --> 0:05:55.453 climate models. This initiative can be traced back directly to 0:05:55.613 --> 0:06:01.733 duurs dramatically pessimistic projections of future rainfall. One more little paragraph. 0:06:02.853 --> 0:06:06.293 There is an intriguing flaw in all of this. The 0:06:06.333 --> 0:06:09.773 climate modelers have overlooked one of the most basic principles 0:06:09.853 --> 0:06:13.413 in the science of trend analysis and projection. This is 0:06:13.413 --> 0:06:16.533 the choice of baseline, the starting point from which a 0:06:16.613 --> 0:06:21.733 trend is analyzed. Selection of baseline is critical, since an 0:06:21.813 --> 0:06:27.653 inappropriate selection will lead to incorrect conclusions and to flawed projections. 0:06:28.293 --> 0:06:32.293 The baseline year that WA climate model makers have chosen 0:06:33.013 --> 0:06:38.453 is nineteen fifty. I shall leave it there. Bad models 0:06:38.733 --> 0:06:44.653 and worse science from quadrant dot org dot Au November 0:06:44.653 --> 0:06:48.173 twenty seven. Now at the back end of two sixty seven, 0:06:48.773 --> 0:06:53.693 after the mail room and possibly a little more on climate, 0:06:54.333 --> 0:06:58.613 there is a missive from someone known as a former 0:06:58.853 --> 0:07:02.933 National Party MP and I don't think you want to 0:07:02.973 --> 0:07:13.813 miss it, but in a moment David Seymour. Leverrix is 0:07:13.853 --> 0:07:18.133 an antihistamine made in Switzerland to the highest quality. Leverix 0:07:18.173 --> 0:07:22.173 relieves hay fever in skin, allergies or itchy skin. It's 0:07:22.213 --> 0:07:27.853 a dual action antihistamine and has a unique nasal decongestent action. 0:07:28.333 --> 0:07:31.693 It's fast acting for fast relief and it works in 0:07:31.853 --> 0:07:34.973 under an hour and lasts for over twenty four hours. 0:07:35.373 --> 0:07:38.893 Leverrix is a tiny tablet that unblocks the nose, deals 0:07:38.933 --> 0:07:43.293 with itchy eyes, and stops sneezing. Leverrix is an antihistamine 0:07:43.453 --> 0:07:46.973 made in Switzerland to the highest quantity. So next time 0:07:47.013 --> 0:07:50.413 you're in need of an effective antihistamine, call into the 0:07:50.413 --> 0:07:56.813 pharmacy and ask for Leverrix lv Rix, Leverrix and always 0:07:56.853 --> 0:08:00.173 read the label. Take as directed and if symptoms persist, 0:08:00.373 --> 0:08:14.653 see your health professional. Farmer Broker Auckland Layton Smith David Seymour, 0:08:14.853 --> 0:08:18.533 Act Party leader soon to be Deputy Prime Minister, Man 0:08:18.573 --> 0:08:20.613 of the moment. So it seems it's good to have 0:08:20.653 --> 0:08:22.893 you back on the Laton Smith podcast and thank you. 0:08:22.893 --> 0:08:23.613 I appreciate it. 0:08:24.533 --> 0:08:28.133 No, thank you, Laton. That's always a good conversation. 0:08:27.693 --> 0:08:32.093 Here, David. I have had lots of inquiries from people, 0:08:32.213 --> 0:08:36.013 including overseas, wanting to know what the story is that 0:08:36.053 --> 0:08:40.493 we're about to discuss the Treaty Principles Bill and the 0:08:40.533 --> 0:08:42.613 why it is causing such of us and how did 0:08:42.613 --> 0:08:45.653 we get here. I thought it appropriate to approach it 0:08:45.693 --> 0:08:48.973 from a historical point of view and go back to 0:08:49.453 --> 0:08:53.853 wherever you think might be the beginning of this and 0:08:53.933 --> 0:08:57.813 develop it, not necessarily in every detail, but in enough 0:08:57.853 --> 0:09:01.053 so that people can get a grasp on it. So 0:09:01.173 --> 0:09:06.293 let me make a comment first. To me, the situation 0:09:06.413 --> 0:09:10.413 we find ourselves in is very largely the responsibility of 0:09:11.093 --> 0:09:15.093 administrations through the years, different administrations of both sides of 0:09:15.133 --> 0:09:20.133 the isle, who have handled things incompetently. Now, starting where 0:09:20.133 --> 0:09:23.013 you think the beginning should be, do you agree with 0:09:23.053 --> 0:09:25.053 that or where would you go? 0:09:25.293 --> 0:09:29.813 I do, but I'll go right back. I think about 0:09:29.853 --> 0:09:35.133 sixty million years, New Zealand became a land mass very 0:09:35.173 --> 0:09:37.813 isolated from the rest of the world, one of the 0:09:37.893 --> 0:09:42.213 reasons we have such unusual bird life and flora and 0:09:42.253 --> 0:09:47.933 flauna generally. And it wasn't until about thirteen hundred that 0:09:48.053 --> 0:09:52.213 some Polynesian explorers found New Zealand's and settled here and 0:09:52.293 --> 0:09:56.573 became the Maori people, and they lived in total isolation 0:09:57.453 --> 0:10:01.173 until sixteen forty two when Abel Tasman from the Netherlands 0:10:01.693 --> 0:10:07.933 staled past and lived without contact with Europeans until seventeen 0:10:07.973 --> 0:10:12.413 six nine when Captain Cook actually landed. And throughout the 0:10:12.493 --> 0:10:16.973 late seventeen hundreds and early eighteen hundreds there was some 0:10:17.053 --> 0:10:20.773 settlement in some trading of Europeans, but only in the 0:10:21.253 --> 0:10:26.053 low hundreds, perhaps the low thousands. By eighteen thirty five 0:10:26.453 --> 0:10:29.613 there was a little bit of friction. A lot of 0:10:29.693 --> 0:10:33.133 Mari had traveled at least to Sydney, in some cases 0:10:33.173 --> 0:10:36.493 to London. They started to think about what a nation 0:10:36.693 --> 0:10:43.493 state would look like, and some northern Maori issued Hefakaputia, 0:10:43.853 --> 0:10:47.493 or the Declaration of Independence, which they would regard as 0:10:47.533 --> 0:10:53.613 creating an independent and separate nation. By eighteen forty things 0:10:53.653 --> 0:10:57.413 were getting more difficult. The French were sniffing around the 0:10:57.453 --> 0:11:02.253 South Pacific. There'd been mass conflict amongst Maori due to 0:11:03.053 --> 0:11:05.933 being provided with muskets, which they used to settle old 0:11:05.933 --> 0:11:10.653 scores and kill almost ends of thousands of people in 0:11:10.693 --> 0:11:16.213 the Musket Wars. And so the idea of this supposedly 0:11:16.253 --> 0:11:21.093 independent nation forming some sort of relationship with the British 0:11:21.093 --> 0:11:24.973 Crown seemed very appealing because, as I mentioned, some had 0:11:25.013 --> 0:11:28.013 been to London, some had been to Sydney. They saw 0:11:28.693 --> 0:11:32.533 that the United Kingdom as being the superpower of its day, 0:11:32.613 --> 0:11:35.453 as they'd found out once they got hold of the muskets, 0:11:36.053 --> 0:11:40.613 and they were eager for the rights and duties of 0:11:40.613 --> 0:11:44.893 British citizens for the protection of the British Crown, partly 0:11:44.933 --> 0:11:48.093 from the settlers and partly from each other. 0:11:48.693 --> 0:11:49.973 And so they signed this. 0:11:49.893 --> 0:11:54.013 Treaty at Waititony on the sixth of February eighteen forty. 0:11:54.933 --> 0:11:59.493 I think what nobody at that time had anticipated was 0:11:59.573 --> 0:12:05.213 quite how rapidly Europeans would come. And so by the 0:12:05.333 --> 0:12:07.773 end of the nineteen hundreds you had over half a 0:12:07.813 --> 0:12:12.573 million Europeans here, and the Maori population had actually shrunk 0:12:12.733 --> 0:12:16.853 due to disease and conflict and so on, to a 0:12:16.933 --> 0:12:20.933 tenth of that. And so I think, you know, there's 0:12:20.973 --> 0:12:23.413 probably a fair grievance that in that period, in the 0:12:23.493 --> 0:12:28.853 late nineteenth century to late eighteen hundreds, that is a 0:12:28.893 --> 0:12:30.973 lot of things that nobody could. 0:12:30.813 --> 0:12:32.093 Have anticipated happened. 0:12:32.693 --> 0:12:37.133 And through the twentieth century, you know, a rising movement 0:12:37.853 --> 0:12:40.933 came about to try and restore the Maru language and 0:12:40.933 --> 0:12:45.173 culture the place of Maori. Serapurana Nata, who was on 0:12:45.213 --> 0:12:48.853 the fifty dollar note, played an incredible role in really 0:12:48.973 --> 0:12:54.213 revitalizing a culture again. And by the sixties and seventies, 0:12:54.893 --> 0:12:57.733 just like around the world, you had a lot of 0:12:58.453 --> 0:13:02.173 revolts and a lot of people protesting and campaigning for 0:13:02.253 --> 0:13:06.133 different movements all over the place. In New Zealand, you 0:13:06.253 --> 0:13:10.373 had the idea that they needed to a real reckoning 0:13:10.413 --> 0:13:13.573 in New Zealand's race relations and a change in our 0:13:13.573 --> 0:13:18.533 constitutional arrangement. And that gets you to nineteen seventy five 0:13:18.973 --> 0:13:22.173 when the Treaty of White Tangy X was passed. It 0:13:22.333 --> 0:13:26.293 created the White Tangy Tribunal and it said that there 0:13:26.293 --> 0:13:29.573 were principles of the treaty, but nobody knew what they 0:13:29.613 --> 0:13:33.613 were and nobody really asked the question for another twelve 0:13:33.733 --> 0:13:38.133 years when Parliament passed a law saying that in order 0:13:38.173 --> 0:13:44.133 to privatize some hydro electricity companies, the government would observe 0:13:44.213 --> 0:13:47.653 the principles of the treaty. So the Maori Council went 0:13:47.733 --> 0:13:53.253 off to the Court of Appeal and they said, well, 0:13:53.693 --> 0:13:56.933 we think the principles are that the treaty formed a 0:13:56.973 --> 0:14:01.613 partnership between races. It involves active care and protection on 0:14:01.653 --> 0:14:05.053 the part of the Crown towards Maori. And all of 0:14:05.093 --> 0:14:09.493 a sudden you had this idea that there was a 0:14:09.533 --> 0:14:13.053 group of people who were in partnership either with all 0:14:13.093 --> 0:14:16.613 Europeans or at least with the Crown, and all of 0:14:16.613 --> 0:14:19.453 a sudden our country was divided into collectives. And over 0:14:19.493 --> 0:14:23.933 the ensuing fifty years, the White Hangh Tribunal, the courts, 0:14:23.973 --> 0:14:28.173 at some point the Public Service have tried to expand 0:14:28.253 --> 0:14:31.733 and define those principles. But where it got us to 0:14:33.173 --> 0:14:36.373 buy about twenty twenty twenty twenty one is that the 0:14:36.453 --> 0:14:40.453 partnership principle that New Zealand is an amalgam of two 0:14:40.533 --> 0:14:43.733 collectives based on ancestry. 0:14:43.253 --> 0:14:44.693 Had really gone full flight. 0:14:44.813 --> 0:14:46.933 So we had to have a separate Maori Health Authority 0:14:46.973 --> 0:14:49.853 because there's two partners we had to have co governance 0:14:50.373 --> 0:14:55.133 of three waters, the municipal infrastructure. We had to have 0:14:55.773 --> 0:14:59.093 two chief executives at the Human Rights Commission, one representing 0:14:59.133 --> 0:15:00.493 each side of the partnership. 0:15:01.453 --> 0:15:04.213 Schools or school boards. 0:15:03.813 --> 0:15:06.093 Were required to give effect to the treaty, meaning that 0:15:06.133 --> 0:15:09.853 they had to teach children to live in this bicultural way. 0:15:10.493 --> 0:15:13.613 And so all of a sudden, New Zealand had been 0:15:13.653 --> 0:15:18.493 transformed from a country that practiced liberal democracy with equal 0:15:18.653 --> 0:15:21.973 individual rights for each person to live and thrive in 0:15:22.013 --> 0:15:27.333 their own way. Instead, we had become this compact of 0:15:27.493 --> 0:15:30.013 two collectives defined by ancestry. 0:15:30.253 --> 0:15:33.253 And at that point the government changed. And here we are. 0:15:34.093 --> 0:15:37.093 I've never allowed, or nobody's ever taken such a length 0:15:37.133 --> 0:15:40.453 of time for an opening statement, but I let your 0:15:40.573 --> 0:15:44.133 roll because it was worthy. And even I picked up 0:15:44.133 --> 0:15:47.693 a couple of points I was unfamiliar with. I was 0:15:48.253 --> 0:15:52.213 of the opinion that it was Jeffrey Palmer who introduced 0:15:52.813 --> 0:15:54.413 the partnership plot. 0:15:54.893 --> 0:15:58.413 Well, he certainly was involved in the State and Enterprises 0:15:58.453 --> 0:16:01.853 Act in nineteen eighty six, which was the subject of 0:16:01.853 --> 0:16:04.973 the nineteen eighty seven Court of Appeal Act. That's the 0:16:05.013 --> 0:16:08.053 thing I referred to with the hydroelectricity. And I know 0:16:08.133 --> 0:16:10.733 that Palmer has been found on the record saying well, 0:16:11.093 --> 0:16:13.133 you know, now that this has been decided by the. 0:16:13.093 --> 0:16:15.373 Courts, that's out of reach of politicians. 0:16:15.773 --> 0:16:18.853 I think Sir Jeffrey may have even practiced a certain 0:16:18.893 --> 0:16:23.653 element of self loathing, and that he was always eager 0:16:23.653 --> 0:16:27.253 for things to be dealt with by judges, lawyers and 0:16:27.293 --> 0:16:29.373 courtrooms rather than politicians. 0:16:29.653 --> 0:16:32.973 Well that was contagious, of course, and it continues today. 0:16:33.013 --> 0:16:36.253 But we might get onto that a little later, although 0:16:36.293 --> 0:16:38.533 here I am sort of touching on it. Anyway, the 0:16:38.613 --> 0:16:43.933 assumption of different opinions some would like to call them facts, 0:16:44.453 --> 0:16:47.373 and the operation off the back of that assumption is 0:16:47.413 --> 0:16:50.413 something that has further got us into trouble. I feel 0:16:50.773 --> 0:16:55.453 the assumptions haven't been arrested on birth, and so they 0:16:55.533 --> 0:16:58.613 have grown. And I'll give you a prime example that 0:16:58.853 --> 0:17:02.933 of a tier rower, all of a sudden, a tier 0:17:03.013 --> 0:17:08.933 rower who came into play instead of New Zealand. And 0:17:09.813 --> 0:17:13.053 it was first of all a tier row in New Zealand, 0:17:13.133 --> 0:17:18.213 and it has become on frequent occasions, many occasions simply 0:17:18.373 --> 0:17:22.413 a ti rower has replaced the name New Zealand. People 0:17:22.453 --> 0:17:24.773 have the assumption that that's what it now is, because 0:17:24.813 --> 0:17:30.493 it's it's been formally adopted, which it hasn't, of course, 0:17:30.533 --> 0:17:33.573 But that is only one example of probably many. 0:17:33.653 --> 0:17:38.053 You say, well, it's a very good example of a 0:17:38.133 --> 0:17:42.253 change that has happened seemingly stealthily. I have to say, 0:17:42.413 --> 0:17:44.693 of all of the things that's happened, that's probably the 0:17:44.693 --> 0:17:48.493 one that bothers me the least. I suspect that if 0:17:48.533 --> 0:17:52.053 you take all the politics out and just ask yourself, 0:17:52.533 --> 0:17:56.493 if you've got two competing names, which one is likely 0:17:56.573 --> 0:18:00.013 to succeed in the long term. And I suspect that 0:18:00.253 --> 0:18:05.133 just natural evolution of language will tend towards favoring the 0:18:05.133 --> 0:18:08.093 one that has got you know, an a at each 0:18:08.333 --> 0:18:12.133 and as symmetrical has quite a nice bounce to it. 0:18:12.293 --> 0:18:17.173 Enna's novel Versus New Zealand, which obviously is the country 0:18:17.213 --> 0:18:19.933 I grew up I'm very proud of. But I suspect 0:18:20.013 --> 0:18:23.173 just as a sheer question of which word will be 0:18:23.333 --> 0:18:26.093 easier to say and outcompete the other, I suspect that 0:18:26.173 --> 0:18:30.693 will happen anyway doesn't really bother me, except for when 0:18:31.533 --> 0:18:34.493 people do it to prove a point, which is just irritating. 0:18:34.533 --> 0:18:36.773 But that kind of virtures are going behavior as everywhere. 0:18:37.413 --> 0:18:40.653 Well, you're quite right about everywhere. But by the same token, 0:18:41.573 --> 0:18:44.213 if we're going to make a name change, and you're 0:18:44.533 --> 0:18:47.573 probably correct when you say that it's the least important, 0:18:48.533 --> 0:18:51.213 but nevertheless it is a prime example, as we've agreed. 0:18:51.693 --> 0:18:57.693 So if you're going to allow things to change and 0:18:57.733 --> 0:19:02.013 be adopted simply because of a bit of usage, but 0:19:02.093 --> 0:19:05.053 without people speaking about it, without there being I think 0:19:05.133 --> 0:19:06.653 there should be. If you're going to do that, it 0:19:06.733 --> 0:19:09.133 should be a referendum, same as it was to change 0:19:09.173 --> 0:19:12.053 the flag. Change the flag, change the name. You need 0:19:12.093 --> 0:19:12.933 a referendum. 0:19:13.413 --> 0:19:16.173 Well, I don't mind the idea of a referendum. 0:19:16.413 --> 0:19:19.853 I just point out that a lot of the usage 0:19:19.893 --> 0:19:24.293 that you're concerned about is by private companies, so you know, 0:19:24.413 --> 0:19:26.493 Votera Phone or One New Zealand as they like to 0:19:26.493 --> 0:19:29.893 call themselves, the phone company. You know, I'd be one 0:19:29.893 --> 0:19:33.373 of the first to defend the rights of a private 0:19:33.413 --> 0:19:38.453 company to practice free speech or an individual. The Olympic Committee, 0:19:38.613 --> 0:19:42.053 you know, while it receives government funding, is not part of. 0:19:42.293 --> 0:19:45.853 The government, and so you know, I suspect that you. 0:19:45.813 --> 0:19:50.573 Can make the argument there should be restrictions around organizations 0:19:50.573 --> 0:19:54.133 that use public funds. But you know, ultimately, you know 0:19:54.453 --> 0:19:56.213 you do run into free speech issues. 0:19:57.413 --> 0:19:58.613 Control what people call it. 0:19:58.733 --> 0:20:01.013 This is the virtue signaling though that you just referred 0:20:01.053 --> 0:20:04.533 to private companies who adopt it because they want to 0:20:04.573 --> 0:20:07.693 be considered as progressive. 0:20:08.493 --> 0:20:11.693 There's a difference between thinking someone's a bit tiresome and 0:20:11.933 --> 0:20:16.173 using legal force against them. You know, if we decided 0:20:16.213 --> 0:20:22.573 to lock up every tiresome virtue signaler and New Zealander josal. 0:20:22.253 --> 0:20:26.493 Be full, well, that might be a good thing, all 0:20:26.573 --> 0:20:30.013 right for the guards. Yes, Now let's get back to 0:20:30.133 --> 0:20:35.093 the situation at hand, the treaty principles build. Why did 0:20:35.133 --> 0:20:38.933 you pursue this? First of all, why did you pursue it? 0:20:38.973 --> 0:20:40.333 And secondly why? 0:20:40.693 --> 0:20:42.893 Now a couple of reasons why. 0:20:43.293 --> 0:20:47.613 I believe that New Zealand has really, I think being 0:20:47.773 --> 0:20:51.973 weakened in the last five years especially, but actually it's 0:20:52.013 --> 0:20:54.533 been going on for a long liver map, and it's 0:20:54.573 --> 0:20:58.973 been weakened by a local brand of identity politics. Identity 0:20:59.013 --> 0:21:04.213 politics makes for weak people because it tells people that 0:21:04.573 --> 0:21:08.133 they're either a victim or a villain, and their role 0:21:08.613 --> 0:21:12.333 in society really depends on things that they have no 0:21:12.413 --> 0:21:18.693 control over. So instead of telling children, you know, you 0:21:18.733 --> 0:21:21.013 can be anything, but you've got to put in the effort. 0:21:21.933 --> 0:21:23.413 We say, well, actually. 0:21:23.733 --> 0:21:26.853 You know, you've got a big problem, or you're oppressed 0:21:26.933 --> 0:21:30.053 or whatever because of things that happened long before you 0:21:30.133 --> 0:21:33.493 were born. And I look around the world, lots of 0:21:33.493 --> 0:21:38.493 countries have a version of this. It's divisive, it's disempowering, 0:21:39.173 --> 0:21:42.733 it weakens people. And what I'd like to see as 0:21:42.773 --> 0:21:46.133 a New Zealand based on strong people who have a 0:21:46.213 --> 0:21:50.173 sense of freedom under the law, responsibility for their actions, 0:21:50.333 --> 0:21:55.173 no discrimination. Now, one of the biggest impediments to doing 0:21:55.173 --> 0:21:58.053 that in New Zealand at the moment is the set 0:21:58.053 --> 0:22:00.653 of three D principles that set up the partnership as 0:22:00.693 --> 0:22:05.013 I described earlier, where a person, before you know how 0:22:05.013 --> 0:22:07.013 to deal with them, you have to know what their 0:22:07.053 --> 0:22:09.093 ancestry is so you can work out which side of 0:22:09.133 --> 0:22:12.133 the partnership go on and then kind of go from there. 0:22:12.333 --> 0:22:14.733 It's very tiring, it's very divisive, it stops you getting 0:22:14.733 --> 0:22:18.613 things done, and it actually SAPs people's attitudes and energies. 0:22:18.733 --> 0:22:22.893 So that's the key reason is that whether it's education 0:22:23.013 --> 0:22:28.013 and the economy, health, housing, all this transaction cost around 0:22:28.693 --> 0:22:33.173 different roles and responsibilities, all this disempowerment that comes from 0:22:33.373 --> 0:22:36.613 saying that your life is almost predetermined by historic events. 0:22:37.333 --> 0:22:38.453 That's what I'm against. 0:22:39.053 --> 0:22:44.173 And why now, Well, you know, in politics you don't 0:22:44.213 --> 0:22:45.373 get to choose your timing. 0:22:46.413 --> 0:22:49.133 I've campaigned for years on issues like this. 0:22:49.293 --> 0:22:52.133 I said in my maiden speech to Parliament as a 0:22:52.173 --> 0:22:55.573 thirty one year old and twenty fourteen that you know, 0:22:55.613 --> 0:22:58.573 it's strange that New Zealand, which is in many ways 0:22:58.613 --> 0:23:02.333 the freest, most equal society that has ever been created, 0:23:03.013 --> 0:23:07.213 is now desperately trying to reverse that as rapidly as possible. 0:23:08.013 --> 0:23:11.333 And I guess the reason for now is that I'm 0:23:11.373 --> 0:23:14.173 in a political position to do it. I would have 0:23:14.213 --> 0:23:16.853 liked to have done it earlier. I'm glad I didn't 0:23:16.853 --> 0:23:17.533 have to wait later. 0:23:18.173 --> 0:23:22.013 The reason that people are concerned about it happening now 0:23:22.253 --> 0:23:26.133 is because we've just come out of a six year 0:23:26.213 --> 0:23:31.933 crisis which continues. We're in very bad shape financially, people 0:23:31.933 --> 0:23:35.093 are fleeing the country. Things aren't well, let's put it 0:23:35.133 --> 0:23:39.213 that way. And more than one person obviously has suggested 0:23:39.213 --> 0:23:41.733 me in one form or another that now wasn't the 0:23:41.773 --> 0:23:45.333 time to do it, simply because we've got enough on 0:23:45.373 --> 0:23:47.413 our plates and what we really should be doing is 0:23:47.773 --> 0:23:52.013 concentrating on lifting the country back to somewhere near normal. 0:23:52.973 --> 0:23:57.533 Yeah, I mean, I think sometimes people mix up activity 0:23:57.853 --> 0:24:02.453 and attention, So certainly the Treaty Principles Bill has got 0:24:02.653 --> 0:24:06.293 far more attention. 0:24:07.253 --> 0:24:10.413 Than anything else I'm doing. I mean, you know, wall 0:24:10.453 --> 0:24:11.853 to wall in the media. 0:24:11.653 --> 0:24:16.893 Every day, but actually, you know, this week we're going 0:24:16.893 --> 0:24:18.733 to announce the first charter school contracts. 0:24:18.733 --> 0:24:20.853 We've got that policy together in record times. 0:24:20.893 --> 0:24:24.333 We've fixed up healthy school lunchers, and we've got a 0:24:24.333 --> 0:24:29.453 whole new plan for school boards to work on school attendance. 0:24:29.493 --> 0:24:33.093 Now that that's just me, and that's just education. 0:24:34.013 --> 0:24:37.333 I've also got finance, regulation, health, being in charge of 0:24:37.373 --> 0:24:39.413 farming and so on. 0:24:39.893 --> 0:24:41.493 And then that's just one minister. 0:24:41.573 --> 0:24:44.093 If you go across to brook Fan Valden, look at 0:24:44.093 --> 0:24:47.333 what she's doing with health and safety at work, and 0:24:47.373 --> 0:24:51.653 you know, contracting provisions, a holidays Act. I could go on, 0:24:51.773 --> 0:24:55.053 but you get the point, right, Like I've only mentioned 0:24:55.053 --> 0:24:56.933 two ministers, and one of them only half of what 0:24:56.973 --> 0:25:01.413 they're doing. And you know, while the Treaty Principal spills 0:25:01.573 --> 0:25:04.253 getting a lot of attention, it's not stopping us from 0:25:04.293 --> 0:25:06.653 addressing those other issues and almost everything I just talked 0:25:06.653 --> 0:25:08.333 about somehow comes back to the economy. 0:25:08.613 --> 0:25:13.613 Well, that's very good, but what the problem is is 0:25:13.653 --> 0:25:15.973 the attention has been has come not from you so 0:25:16.053 --> 0:25:20.013 much as from the opposition to what you're doing. Go 0:25:20.093 --> 0:25:23.773 back to the event in Parliament the other day. Do 0:25:23.853 --> 0:25:27.253 they have a case that could be mounted successfully? 0:25:28.293 --> 0:25:31.733 Well, they've got one thing on their side is that 0:25:32.133 --> 0:25:34.053 the way they would like us to live is the 0:25:34.093 --> 0:25:37.693 way that most humans in most places, for most of 0:25:37.813 --> 0:25:41.133 history have lived, and that is in a tribal order 0:25:41.413 --> 0:25:45.133 where your loyalty to the leader is what matters. 0:25:45.893 --> 0:25:48.813 You play the role that you're born into and that's 0:25:48.933 --> 0:25:49.573 just your lot. 0:25:50.853 --> 0:25:54.173 I on the other hand, in favor of weird people, 0:25:54.653 --> 0:25:59.133 and by weird people, I mean Western educated, industrialized, rich 0:25:59.173 --> 0:26:02.533 and democratic, and that's the society they live in, a 0:26:02.573 --> 0:26:08.133 society where each individual has equal and analienable rights to 0:26:08.453 --> 0:26:12.533 sue their dreams and in their own self chosen way. 0:26:13.173 --> 0:26:16.453