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Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks EDB. Follow

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Speaker 1: this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio,

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Speaker 1: Straight Down the Middle of.

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Speaker 2: Drop, Dicky sc Try these Pocket.

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Speaker 1: Inside the Game from Every angle. It's Rugby Direct with

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Speaker 1: Elliot Smith and Leam Napier powered by News Talks EDB.

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Speaker 2: Welcome into Rugby Direct powered by Access Solutions. We have

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Speaker 2: convened an emergency edition of Rugby Direct on January the fourteenth.

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Speaker 2: Feels like the earliest that we have ever gone to

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Speaker 2: record this but big movements in the world of the

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Speaker 2: All Black Slam. Napier, co host of Rugby Direct and

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Speaker 2: of course lead Rugby writer at The New Zealand Herald,

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Speaker 2: joins me and a big story from Liam that has

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Speaker 2: dropped this afternoon on the New Zealand Herald. You can

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Speaker 2: read it now, but basically outlines widespread frustrations from players

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Speaker 2: and support staff following the All Blacks Grand Slam Tour

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Speaker 2: last year. The feedback loud and clear, it says Legham

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Speaker 2: story that leaves New Zealand Rugby under serious pressure to

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Speaker 2: deliver sweeping coaching changes. Liam, are probably best for you

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Speaker 2: just to outline what you've heard first and foremost and

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Speaker 2: the basis of your pieces to where it stands right now.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I let some of rugby developments are in full swing. Look,

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Speaker 3: some of this won't come as a major surprise to

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Speaker 3: our listeners and rugby observers, because it was pretty clear

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Speaker 3: at the back end of last year that things weren't

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Speaker 3: working for the All Blacks. We've seen two assistant coaches

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Speaker 3: depart that team, and there was a story at the

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Speaker 3: back end of last year about internal frustrations.

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Speaker 4: So that's now come to a head in a big way.

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Speaker 3: My understanding is there's multiple senior players have delivered stinging

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Speaker 3: feedback on the culture of the environment, the coaching, so

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Speaker 3: widespread unhappiness amongst that team, and unless there are major

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Speaker 3: changes made to that coaching team, you could have some

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Speaker 3: big names not playing for the flex again.

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Speaker 2: So that's the basis of the story. Great montage picture

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Speaker 2: at the top Ardie Savia and Scott robertson Ardie Sava

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Speaker 2: suggesting in the story that sources have told you that

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Speaker 2: sav is exploring discussions to stay on with Kobe where

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Speaker 2: he's at at the moment, or join a European club.

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Speaker 2: So he obviously is particularly unhappy with the environment at

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Speaker 2: the moment.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's my understanding, Elliott.

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Speaker 3: Multiple people from in and around the team rugby players

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Speaker 3: has told me that Savia is not alone, but he's

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Speaker 3: certainly one of the leading senior players that are unhappy

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Speaker 3: and is certainly exploring possibilities to not return to New

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Speaker 3: Zealand Rugby. And it's major news at this particular juncture,

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Speaker 3: isn't it.

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Speaker 4: We're two years out from my ruguid World.

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Speaker 3: Cup, there's the South African Tour on the horizon, the

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Speaker 3: nation's championships about to start.

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Speaker 4: He's a centurion All Black.

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Speaker 3: You know, you could probably argue at the moment the

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Speaker 3: All Blacks are lacking genuine.

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Speaker 4: World class players.

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Speaker 3: Well, he's certainly won World Player of the Year a

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Speaker 3: couple of years ago and he has made an influence

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Speaker 3: and sway within that team. So I think New Zealand

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Speaker 3: Rugby will be very nervous about that situation, will be

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Speaker 3: desperate to retain Nardi service service. He was captain a

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Speaker 3: number of times in Scott Barns's absence last year. But

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Speaker 3: he's clearly not happy and he's exploring possibilities offshore and

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Speaker 3: he would certainly be in major demand.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's right. We know that the value that he

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Speaker 2: would attract from Kobe let alone other teams around the world.

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Speaker 2: And if he decided he didn't want to play for

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Speaker 2: the All Blacks again, well there he could go to

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Speaker 2: Toulon or you know, one of the French clubs in

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Speaker 2: command a great deal of coin over there. But it

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Speaker 2: does illustrate how things potentially have, how badly they've gotten

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Speaker 2: if you keep player reigning All Black of the Year

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Speaker 2: is exploring potentially deciding not to play for this team again.

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Speaker 4: That's right.

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Speaker 3: And if you think back to you know, the depths

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Speaker 3: of the En Foster regime, Artie was actually one of

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Speaker 3: the pretty outspoken in his support for Foster. You know,

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Speaker 3: Foster didn't deliver results until those coaching changes came, but

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Speaker 3: he always had the support of the senior players. You

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Speaker 3: think about in South Africa, several senior players going to

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Speaker 3: jeffic get kid of Mark Robinson's hotel room and basically

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Speaker 3: demanding that Foster be retained.

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Speaker 4: Well, it's a real reverse of that situation now, isn't that.

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Speaker 4: You've had Scott Robinson come in and with two years

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Speaker 4: into his tenure, we haven't really seen any progress or

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Speaker 4: improvements and we're now having a situation where there's widespread

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Speaker 4: critical feedback of the coaching team, so as a real

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Speaker 4: major situation for New Zealand Ragby to tackle. And of

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Speaker 4: course at this juncture they have an interim CEO, so

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Speaker 4: you'd think chair and David Kirk holds the balance of

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Speaker 4: power in terms of deciding the path forward.

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Speaker 2: Before we get onto the path forward, Liam, you mentioned

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Speaker 2: obviously Robertson and Scott Hansen at the center of the

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Speaker 2: critical feedback. Do we know anything about the nature of

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Speaker 2: this feedback? Is that around the culture, the game plan

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Speaker 2: of the team, and I guess you know, have these

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Speaker 2: issues been festering for some time? It hasn't all just

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Speaker 2: happened over four weeks on the end of view tour.

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Speaker 4: No, it hasn't.

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Speaker 3: I think it's a gradual build up of tension and

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Speaker 3: frustrations and certainly those things you mentioned there around selection,

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Speaker 3: around strategy and feedback.

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Speaker 4: Even things a bit about trust.

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Speaker 3: One sort of tip I heard was that after a

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Speaker 3: loss the coaches basically talked more. And you've got a

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Speaker 3: number of senior players that have played one hundred or tests,

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Speaker 3: they've been around the block and in previous regimes players

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Speaker 3: are empowered to talk about things like attack and defense,

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Speaker 3: and under this regime, I don't think that's really happened

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Speaker 3: a lot.

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Speaker 2: That's a similar thing that I have heard over the

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Speaker 2: course of the summer. And you know, you get around

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Speaker 2: the barbecue or wherever it might be, and people have

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Speaker 2: got various tidbits. New Zealand is a very small country,

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Speaker 2: gets well connected and some of it you dispose of

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Speaker 2: and some of it you take on board. But there

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Speaker 2: were suggestions that it had gone from being somewhat of

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Speaker 2: a player lead environment. The all blacks, you know, empowered,

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Speaker 2: the players are empowered so to lead the way they

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Speaker 2: wanted to very much having changed, and the players didn't

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Speaker 2: quite have the say that maybe they did under previous

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Speaker 2: regimes like Ian Foster.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's what I've heard as well.

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Speaker 3: And look, these guys have had so many different experiences.

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Speaker 3: You think of guys like Boden Barrett, Cody Taylor, Artie Severe,

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Speaker 3: there's a number of guys that have been to World Cups.

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Speaker 3: I had the highs and lows and lived through it,

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Speaker 3: and in many respects that coaching team hasn't. So there

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Speaker 3: does in a modern rugby environment, there doesn't need to

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Speaker 3: be a real balance between player players taking charge and

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Speaker 3: I think and previous All Blacks regimes how it worked

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Speaker 3: as the coaches would hand things over to the players

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Speaker 3: towards the end of the week. I don't know whether

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Speaker 3: that's happening in this team, but I think with the

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Speaker 3: assistant coaches that have left them, particularly On McDonald and

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Speaker 3: Jason Holland, I think they felt much lies they didn't

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Speaker 3: get to say they wanted and that seems to have

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Speaker 3: filtered down towards the players as well.

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Speaker 2: When you think back two years ago, there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of promise that you know around this coaching group. Scott Robertson,

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Speaker 2: with his record at the Crusaders, it was the popular

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Speaker 2: choice for him to be anointed to this role, but

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Speaker 2: it has unraveled now with these revelations out of the

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Speaker 2: internal review. Can it go on?

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Speaker 1: You know?

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Speaker 2: Can They can't just all get back into camp. But

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Speaker 2: I think there is something happening in the next couple

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Speaker 2: of weeks, potentially in Auckland, before the teams really get

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Speaker 2: into super rugby business. They can't all be happy families

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Speaker 2: and everyone's going to move on that. That feels like

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Speaker 2: they will have to be some change doesn't it, and

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Speaker 2: what kind of form that is? Have you got any

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Speaker 2: inkling as to where they might go to from here?

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Speaker 3: No, they certainly can't carry on as as Elliott. I

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Speaker 3: think they'd be not an uprising from the players. It's

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Speaker 3: probably a bit strong, but I think they would demand

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Speaker 3: changes and the other way. Ones that are out on

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Speaker 3: the fields and they are clearly not happy, So I

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Speaker 3: think there does need to be some form of change.

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Speaker 4: How that looks, I'm not too sure.

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Speaker 3: I think from what I've heard in terms of the

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Speaker 3: feedback and the review that Scott Hansen in particular is

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Speaker 3: under major pressure, so I wouldn't be surprised to see

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Speaker 3: him go potentially, But.

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Speaker 2: Which would be a third assistant coach of this raging.

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Speaker 3: But Razer sits at the top of the tree, doesn't he.

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Speaker 3: So the buck stops with the head coach. We've seen

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Speaker 3: in with Ian Foster the difference that some assistant coaches

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Speaker 3: can make.

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Speaker 4: But look, there's no denying.

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Speaker 3: That Razors under serious, serious heat two years into a

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Speaker 3: four year tenure.

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Speaker 2: Have you heard you know? Is there is there a

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Speaker 2: plan as to the next steps internally at New Zealand Rugby.

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Speaker 2: Because you touched on early again, there's no CEO currently.

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Speaker 2: There's also no CFO, no Chief Commercial Officer. But this

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Speaker 2: is David K organization essential at the moment, isn't it.

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Speaker 3: It is no Ugy have gone to ground and I

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Speaker 3: tried to reach out to them in the past sort

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Speaker 3: of forty eight hours or so. To me, that suggests

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Speaker 3: that something is imminent, that changes will come, but I'm

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Speaker 3: not too sure exactly how that looks.

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Speaker 2: One other point before we wrap up this emergency podcast, Liam,

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Speaker 2: you mentioned in your article a senior Blues player understood

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Speaker 2: to have declined an invitation to join the All Blacks

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Speaker 2: in their final test of the year and card from

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Speaker 2: the All Blacks fifteen. You know that speaks interesting volumes

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Speaker 2: about where players want to be If they don't want

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Speaker 2: to be in the All Blacks when that opportunity is

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Speaker 2: on the line, that's that's remarkable.

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Speaker 3: Oh, It's telling, isn't it? And it does speak to

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Speaker 3: the widespread issues. This is not ARTI Severa alone. There's

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Speaker 3: multiple senior players and then you go down a run

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Speaker 3: to someone who has been involved with the All Blacks

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Speaker 3: before and doesn't want want to be again under this

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Speaker 3: coaching team. So this is far from an isolated incident

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Speaker 3: or an isolated issue, and it does need to be

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Speaker 3: tackled head on, and it's very clear that changes need

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Speaker 3: to be made.

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Speaker 2: Watch the Space leam Aper thank you for joining me.

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Speaker 2: I hope you get back to your summer holidays at

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Speaker 2: some point soon.

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Speaker 4: Chiers Elliot always great to hear mate.

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Speaker 2: Watch the Space on New Zealand Herald dot co dot

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Speaker 2: nz and use talk zb for updates that has been

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Speaker 2: rugby direct and emergency. Addition, with our friends at Access Solutions.

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Speaker 1: For more from news Talk ZEDB. Listen live on air

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Speaker 1: or online, and keep our shows with you wherever you

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