1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,600 Speaker 1: Government's almost doubling its target for cuts to consultants and 2 00:00:04,640 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: contract to costs. Remember during the election, this is a 3 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:10,479 Speaker 1: big deal for National Public Service. Minister Judith Collins has 4 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:12,400 Speaker 1: come out today and said they're on track to save 5 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 1: eight hundred million dollars over two years instead of four 6 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:19,760 Speaker 1: hundred ministers with me now, good evening, Oh, good evening, Ryan, 7 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:21,680 Speaker 1: So how do you manage to double your cuts? 8 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 2: Well, I think it's just very clear messages that Nikola 9 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:28,840 Speaker 2: Willis has given and now me as the minister, that 10 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 2: we need the public service doing the work that it's 11 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:36,960 Speaker 2: paid to do and not asking consultants and contracts to 12 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:40,080 Speaker 2: do that work. At the same time, understanding if there's 13 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:43,199 Speaker 2: a specialist area that makes sense to use it. But 14 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 2: this is eight hundred million dollars of tax payer money 15 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:50,479 Speaker 2: that's now being saved, So that's pretty much it. It's 16 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 2: very clear message. 17 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 1: Are there more full time public servants doing the work 18 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 1: of the consultants that otherwise would have been found out? 19 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 2: Well, no, because the numbers have actually dropped by about 20 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:07,039 Speaker 2: four percent. So what's clearly working is more let's say, 21 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 2: more productivity. I expect if it's a four percent drop 22 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 2: in the core public service, which are basically your bureaucracy, 23 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:18,560 Speaker 2: not your nurses and doctors and police officers and that. 24 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 2: So quite clearly people are working better, but more people focused, 25 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 2: I think on delivering better results for taxpayers. 26 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:29,840 Speaker 1: I think people will be surprised to hear that it's 27 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 1: only down four percent. You know, December twenty three we 28 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 1: had sixty five thousand, we're still at sixty two thousand, 29 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 1: pre COVID, pre labor, we had forty nine thousand. You 30 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 1: guys said we were going to cut right back. They bloated. 31 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:44,560 Speaker 1: I mean we're still bloated, an't we Well. 32 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 2: I certainly think that there is still a lot of 33 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 2: room for improvement, and so one of the things that 34 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 2: we're going to be doing is changing the Public Service Act, 35 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 2: because that requires public servants and the chief executives to 36 00:01:57,240 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 2: be evolved in all sorts of things. They have nothing 37 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 2: to do with delivering for the New Zealand taxpayers. So 38 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 2: we're bringing everything back to basics. You're going to see 39 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 2: more changes. 40 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 1: So like, what what are they doing that's not basic? 41 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 2: Well, I think what we've seen is reporting on everything, feeling, 42 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:20,280 Speaker 2: all the sort of wellbeing stuff, you know, just get 43 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:21,919 Speaker 2: back to the basics, do the job well. 44 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 1: So you'll make changes to the Public Service Act. You'll 45 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 1: cut out the nonsense, the wellbeing stuff, and that will 46 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 1: mean you can let go of some more staff. 47 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 2: Yeah. So I think it's really important though that when 48 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 2: you've got the staff working and try and do their best, 49 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 2: that we help them to do that. One of the 50 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 2: things is to get all the stuff out of the 51 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 2: way they don't need to be doing and just keep 52 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:44,239 Speaker 2: them focused. 53 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:48,680 Speaker 1: But are you happy with sixty two, nine hundred and 54 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:50,840 Speaker 1: sixty eight call public servants? 55 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 2: Well, I think that looks like a ridiculous number compared 56 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 2: to what it was six years before National came back. 57 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:01,079 Speaker 2: And when you look at those prices, you'd have to say, 58 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 2: and what value for money is the taxpayer getting for it? 59 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:08,240 Speaker 2: And I think that's why every agency is being told 60 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 2: you have your budget, you need to live with it, 61 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:14,080 Speaker 2: and if you can deliver savings, that looks very good 62 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 2: for you and your future. 63 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:16,920 Speaker 1: So do you like the number or not? 64 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:19,920 Speaker 2: No? I don't. I don't like it. 65 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 1: What should it be next to me? 66 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 2: Well, I think it should be far closer to where 67 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:23,800 Speaker 2: it was. 68 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 1: But which is so you've got to get close to 69 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 1: that you've got to get rid of another twelve thousand 70 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 1: to ten thousand people public service. 71 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 2: Well, I think you look and see what is it 72 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 2: people are doing. Is it something that's worthwhile? Is it 73 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 2: going to add value for the taxpayer? If it's not, 74 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 2: why are we doing it? So these are some of 75 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 2: the very tough questions that we're putting too chief executives, 76 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 2: and you're going to see that. One of the things 77 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 2: they've said to us is that the Public Service Act, 78 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:56,840 Speaker 2: which was changed in twenty twenty under the Durn government, 79 00:03:57,440 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 2: that needs to change because it's added all is extra 80 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 2: complexity onto the public servants jobs and they need to 81 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 2: get that. 82 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 1: When are we're getting that. 83 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 2: Oh, you're going to start seeing that coming through pretty soon. 84 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 2: We've got papers going to through the cabinet process, and 85 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:16,160 Speaker 2: you're going to find that things are going to change, 86 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 2: and they're going to change the better. I wreckon a 87 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 2: lot of public servants are going to say thank you 88 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 2: very much for making their job more efficient and effective. 89 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 1: All right, hey minister, do you use signal? 90 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 2: I do? Indeed, what do you use it? For? Things 91 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 2: like here's a photo, or here's a good story, or 92 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 2: here's something else. So it's basically communications. But what we 93 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 2: don't use it for is anything that's secure or restricted. 94 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:43,719 Speaker 1: What do you use? Because they've got all sorts of 95 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:46,039 Speaker 1: fancy equipment over in the US, do we I mean, 96 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:48,479 Speaker 1: if you go overseas on a trip to China or whatever, 97 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:50,360 Speaker 1: do you get special equipment? What do you use? 98 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 2: Well, if we go into places where we need to 99 00:04:54,920 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 2: be particularly aware of our our security of telephones and 100 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 2: oenophones is that we normally would use burner phones. So 101 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 2: we generally don't take anything that is restricted in any 102 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 2: way with us that's not you know, we just can't. 103 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 1: Do that, right then? Do then you just throw them 104 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 1: in the bin? What do you do with them? 105 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 2: Will we give them back to the agency that gave 106 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 2: them to us in the first place. So we do 107 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 2: lots of things like that. That's pretty standard for ministers. 108 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:29,280 Speaker 1: All right, minister, thank you very much for your time. 109 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:31,040 Speaker 1: Sounds like you might need a glass of water after 110 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:31,720 Speaker 1: that one. 111 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 2: For more from Heather Duplessy, Allen Drive listen live to 112 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:36,039 Speaker 2: news Talks. 113 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 1: It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast 114 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:40,360 Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio.