Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2: And a very good afternoon to you. I'm Tim Beverage.
Speaker 2: Welcome to today's Weekend Collective this Sunday, the sixteenth of June.
Speaker 2: We'll be taking by the way, you can text your
Speaker 2: feedback anytime on nine to two nine to and of
Speaker 2: course later on we'll be taking a course just looking
Speaker 2: at what's happening today. Shortly Politics Central, I'll be speaking
Speaker 2: with the Taga University International Relations professor Robert Patman on
Speaker 2: whether actually peace in Ukraine as possible as world leaders
Speaker 2: gather in Switzerland to try and build support for the
Speaker 2: peace proposals for Ukraine and actually where the Putin's peace offering,
Speaker 2: no matter how unrealistic, it gives us course for hope.
Speaker 2: And then we're going to be catching up with a
Speaker 2: Minister for Workplace Relationship relations should I say and Safety
Speaker 2: Brook van Velden on the government's announcement of a road
Speaker 2: show consultation on work health and safety and don't forget
Speaker 2: to stick around for four o'clock the Health app. We're
Speaker 2: joined by psychotherapist Carle MacDonald. We're going to have a
Speaker 2: chat about adult ADHD and newer divergence in coping with that.
Speaker 2: Will be taking your calls after four on eight hundred
Speaker 2: and eighty ten to eighty and at five o'clock Smart
Speaker 2: Money with Chris de Lever from Harbor Asset Management, among
Speaker 2: other things. If you've ever wondered about how to invest
Speaker 2: in the bond market, Chris is going to give us
Speaker 2: the one oh one to starting with what is a
Speaker 2: bond actually, which for many people is probably something of
Speaker 2: a mystery. Anyway, right now it is eight minutes past
Speaker 2: three Politics Central. Oh, by the way, just before we
Speaker 2: get into Politics Central. So the Prime minister's winging his
Speaker 2: way to Tokyo as we speak on the Defense Force
Speaker 2: seventy five second, and he's hoping his trip to Japan
Speaker 2: will bring more investment opportunities to New Zealand. And I've
Speaker 2: been meeting with the Japanese Prime Minister at the end
Speaker 2: of the week. Gosh, he's getting around, isn't he. The
Speaker 2: Blues and the Chiefs are going to be playing the
Speaker 2: Super Final next Saturday. I had an interesting conversation with
Speaker 2: a colleague of mine around the Warriors who described, basically
Speaker 2: said the first forty minutes of the Warriors in Campsy later,
Speaker 2: the last twenty nine minutes of the Warriors. According to
Speaker 2: a source of mine, who is also an expert in
Speaker 2: Karagate chicken, but he said if the game had finished
Speaker 2: at the fifteen or twenty minute mark, that would have
Speaker 2: been great. Anyway, They've got their decade long losing streak
Speaker 2: against Melbourne. And I got that one wrong because I
Speaker 2: sometimes think the Warrior's specialty is, you know, when everyone's
Speaker 2: sort of thinking, oh, there's no way they're going to
Speaker 2: beat the Panthers, or there's no way they're going to
Speaker 2: reverse that, you know, that losing streak against the storm,
Speaker 2: it's the time when they surprise and delight us. But
Speaker 2: unfortunately not this time anyway. Right, So, world leaders have
Speaker 2: gathered at a Swiss mountain resort to try to build
Speaker 2: support for Ukraine's peace proposal. Mark Mark Mitchell. That is
Speaker 2: going to be representing New Zealand. By the way, I
Speaker 2: just went on and googled It's Bergenstock. Is the bergenstock
Speaker 2: on the shores of Lake Lucerne. Oh wow, you'd have
Speaker 2: to save up a little bit to stay there. But
Speaker 2: of course Switzerland itself is incredibly expensive. But what a
Speaker 2: gorgeous spot. We're not going to be talking about the scene.
Speaker 2: But more than ninety countries are taking part in the
Speaker 2: summit on Peace in Ukraine. Russia was not invited and
Speaker 2: China its most important al I think this is a
Speaker 2: shame they refused to attend and to discuss that, I'm
Speaker 2: joined by international relations professor at o Tigo University and
Speaker 2: his name is Robert Patman, Robert Good Afternoons noon tom So.
Speaker 2: Russia has set out at ceasefire terms which have been
Speaker 2: rejected by most European leaders. What did you make of
Speaker 2: the offer of the ceasefire.
Speaker 3: Well, it's a non author because the so called peace
Speaker 3: initiative consists of mister Booting consolidating two regions donetskon Hansk,
Speaker 3: which he has under occupation, and two other regions which
Speaker 3: are not fully under his occupation, which are cursed and SUPPORTIA.
Speaker 3: So what he's saying, in effect is that he wants
Speaker 3: his invasion to be internationally recognized and the means of
Speaker 3: that illegal invasion to be recognized international. In return, he
Speaker 3: will agree there should be no more fighting. So he's
Speaker 3: looking at basically peeling off about twenty percent of Ukraine,
Speaker 3: and in addition, Ukraine would have to give a solemn
Speaker 3: undertake in never to join NATO, which means that he's
Speaker 3: actually vetoing the sovereign choices of a neighboring country. So
Speaker 3: to me, it's not a serious thing at all because
Speaker 3: it's completely inconsistent with the UN Charter, with international law.
Speaker 2: Why do you think he did.
Speaker 3: It, Well, there's several reasons. Firstly, it's not hitting the headlines,
Speaker 3: but the Russian armed forces are now beginning to take
Speaker 3: a bit of a battering in Crimea and air defense
Speaker 3: in a EU Crimea has become problematic. So he needs
Speaker 3: also responding to the fact that Russia has taken a
Speaker 3: huge casual is in Ukraine, and so he may be
Speaker 3: feeling a little bit of domestic heat there and he
Speaker 3: wants to I think he's not involved in the Ukraine
Speaker 3: peace conference in Switzerland, so he wanted to get the
Speaker 3: world's attention that he wants to play the reasonable guy,
Speaker 3: the invader who's been misunderstood essentially. So yeah, I think
Speaker 3: those those motivations are there. He wants to take a
Speaker 3: bit of play away from the peace conference in Switzerland,
Speaker 3: and he's also concerned, I think about the battlefield situation.
Speaker 2: Okay, just the fact of the offering itself, even though
Speaker 2: obviously there's a lot of cynicism behind it, we suspect
Speaker 2: does it give any cause for optimism that we can
Speaker 2: read into the fact that, well, he's at least raised it.
Speaker 2: Does it give us, Does it give Europe and Ukraine
Speaker 2: something to work with or is it simply just a
Speaker 2: distraction and a piece of cynical politics.
Speaker 3: Well, I think a distraction and the cynical partic because
Speaker 3: it's not based on a rules based order for a
Speaker 3: country like New Zealand, we have to operate international on
Speaker 3: the basis of rules and principles. And you can't have
Speaker 3: a country effectively engage in a land grab and said, oh,
Speaker 3: we're we're happy, we're twenty percent of what we've grabbed.
Speaker 3: We did try to grab the whole country, but we
Speaker 3: didn't manage to do it. And is the international community
Speaker 3: going to recognize such behavior because it doesn't stop there?
Speaker 3: Ef that's a precedent, and I think that's you know,
Speaker 3: it's not it's certainly not in New Zeine's interests to
Speaker 3: say that's fine. So this is an attempt for a
Speaker 3: land for peace deal. But you know what, happens in
Speaker 3: six What happens in six months time if he decides
Speaker 3: those regions that he said he would accept in return
Speaker 3: for peace, he decides he needs a bit more.
Speaker 2: So it's not even a starting point for any.
Speaker 3: Sort of not serious at all. I mean, let's be
Speaker 3: quite clear, good this mister Plutin can stop this conflict
Speaker 3: with in twenty four hours by withdrawing Russiam falls to
Speaker 3: the internationally recognized borders of Russia.
Speaker 2: Well exactly what pretty much what Zelensky has said. What
Speaker 2: about Europe using the money from frozen seized assets? Is
Speaker 2: this part of making support for Ukraine Trump proof?
Speaker 3: I think it's an attempt to do that. And also
Speaker 3: in addition, of course NATO are taking a similar measure,
Speaker 3: because they've made with the exception of Hungary, which tends
Speaker 3: to be pro putin, all the other members of NATO
Speaker 3: are in agreeing to make a contribution to Ukraine's defense mandatory.
Speaker 3: We also know that a number of European countries are
Speaker 3: sending trainers to Ukraine's territory to train the Ukrainian army.
Speaker 3: So I think that there's a recognition that mister Trump
Speaker 3: may win the election. They have to protect their statestrategic
Speaker 3: interest because mister Trump's made it quite clear he will
Speaker 3: not be supporting the attempt of ukraining to eject the
Speaker 3: invasion force on his territory.
Speaker 2: How much has actually been seized with those assets? I mean,
Speaker 2: do you know how do you know how this is
Speaker 2: going to work? Because who controls those seas?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I mean it's a bit problematic because while assets are
Speaker 3: frozen I think more than three hundred pion My understanding
Speaker 3: is they're using the interest from those frozen assets. I
Speaker 3: think the reasoning is that, you know, Russia has broken
Speaker 3: international law and therefore it's not entitled to the same
Speaker 3: perfections that everyone else has who's complying with international law.
Speaker 3: But it's still I think many international lawyers are quite
Speaker 3: or uncomfortable about what's happening, because you know, he could
Speaker 3: set a precedent as well.
Speaker 4: Well.
Speaker 2: I guess the thing is it's sort of like a
Speaker 2: halfway house. They haven't actually taken the assets. Is they're
Speaker 2: just going to use the benefits, aren't they? So it's
Speaker 2: a sort of is it a compromise to ye?
Speaker 3: When you look at the damage literally hundreds of billions
Speaker 3: of dollars of damage to infrastructure of Ukraine in an
Speaker 3: unprovoked war. You can understand why there is a lot
Speaker 3: of feeling, not least in Ukraine, but they desperately need
Speaker 3: an infusion of funds and why not use this money?
Speaker 3: But as I say, the proof of that, you know,
Speaker 3: the proof of the pudding is going to be eating.
Speaker 3: How's this going to work out?
Speaker 2: It is an interesting one. They're talking about precedents, but
Speaker 2: of course we've had reparations before for wars and stuff,
Speaker 2: isn't it. So I'm not sure why they're Well, I
Speaker 2: can understand why they're nervous about it. Lawers are always
Speaker 2: nervous about everything, aren't they. But what would you think
Speaker 2: if they actually said stuff that we're going to seize
Speaker 2: the assets and we're going to apply all this for Ukraine.
Speaker 3: I think it's a huge injustice if Russia doesn't make
Speaker 3: any contribution towards the damage that it's caused in a
Speaker 3: neighboring country. I mean, we are to initially look at Mariopol,
Speaker 3: a beautiful city which was just absolutely just reduced to
Speaker 3: rubble and all because of at all ambitions of the
Speaker 3: Putin regime, and you have to say, you know that
Speaker 3: there has to be some means of rebuilding Ukraine when
Speaker 3: foreign forces are eventually ejected from that country.
Speaker 2: Now onto the just on the Olympics, the Italian Prime
Speaker 2: Minister Georgia Maloney says the G seven unanimously backed a
Speaker 2: French proposal to request a global truce during the Olympic Games. Okay,
Speaker 2: what chance of success of that.
Speaker 5: Global troops in relation to Ukraine during the Olympics. Well,
Speaker 5: I don't think obviously that would depend on the two
Speaker 5: conflicting parties. I don't know what Misternsky said about that.
Speaker 5: It's interesting though that the Ukraine Initiative, the conference in
Speaker 5: Ukraine which you began with the introduction to mister Sensky
Speaker 5: presence of is actually trying to begin the process of
Speaker 5: getting a comprehensive peace plan in place. So it's just
Speaker 5: the beginning of a long process, but it's quite a
Speaker 5: significant step and shows I think, you know, mister Putin
Speaker 5: is very.
Speaker 3: Concerned about this. What what is what is uh Selensky
Speaker 3: hoping to do?
Speaker 4: Well?
Speaker 3: Is this? This conference is being attended by more than
Speaker 3: one hundred countries and organizations. Actually, and yeah.
Speaker 2: Sorry, you know, you're right, because actually I realized that
Speaker 2: I let one of my earlier questions get deflicted by Putin,
Speaker 2: and actually the whole question is yeah, so let's let's
Speaker 2: just let's just flesh that out a little bit more
Speaker 2: before you before we wrap it up as what are
Speaker 2: they hoping to achieve from the summit they're having in Switzerland.
Speaker 3: Well, hoping to come up with an internationally supported plan
Speaker 3: to bring peace to Ukraine which is consistent with international
Speaker 3: law and the Union Charter, and amongst other things. The
Speaker 3: plan that mister Selensky has tabled, although he said, you know,
Speaker 3: he's he's willing to consider other variations on it, is
Speaker 3: a cessation of hostilities, the restoration of Ukraine's territorial integrity,
Speaker 3: withdraw Russian troops Ukrainian soil, and the restoration of Ukraine's
Speaker 3: pre war borders with Russia. Now, none of that's acceptable
Speaker 3: to the Russian leadership, but what has wide support internationally
Speaker 3: and so it's putting pressure on Russia and is an
Speaker 3: attempt to mobilize international support for Ukraine's position.
Speaker 2: So Ukraine's military position was looking pretty a little bit
Speaker 2: bleaker a few weeks ago, but how's it looking now?
Speaker 2: There was, it.
Speaker 3: Was, but there's some worrying things from mister Putin, because
Speaker 3: Ukraine is for the last few months has been baking
Speaker 3: a strategy of what's called asymmetrical warfare. It's not attempting
Speaker 3: to punch a hole through Russian defenses. It's going over
Speaker 3: the top now because it's been given going over the
Speaker 3: top of those defenses, because it's given permission by weapons
Speaker 3: owners like the US and Germany to use their weapons
Speaker 3: to attack targets or attack munitions and missiles which are
Speaker 3: being launched from Russian territory at least close to the border,
Speaker 3: anyway close to the border of Ukraine. So in a sense,
Speaker 3: what we've seen is a dramatic escalation, particularly since the
Speaker 3: last US arms deal worth sixty sixty sixty one billion,
Speaker 3: which enables Ukraine. They've got longer range missiles now atoms
Speaker 3: as their core, and they're using these long range missiles
Speaker 3: to target air defense systems in Crimea. In the last
Speaker 3: few days they've knocked out four I think three major
Speaker 3: Russian air defense systems. What does that mean, Well, it's
Speaker 3: very bad use, mister Putin, because if Crimea reaches a
Speaker 3: point where it can no longer be defended by the
Speaker 3: Russians adequately, that puts a lot of political pressure on
Speaker 3: mister Putin in the Kremlin. He can't really politically survive
Speaker 3: a situation where he's seen to lose in crimea.
Speaker 2: As the only real thing that he's ever going to
Speaker 2: respond to force.
Speaker 3: Well. This is a person who hasn't tolerated opposition at
Speaker 3: home and doesn't deal well when he counters resistance or
Speaker 3: opposition externally. So there's nothing in his track record which
Speaker 3: suggests he compromises or or you know, meets people halfway.
Speaker 3: And there's no halfway solution to this. By the way,
Speaker 3: you can't invade a country and they say I would
Speaker 3: decide to have half a loaf rather than the poor country.
Speaker 3: That's just not on and I don't see there's any
Speaker 3: way out, And quite frankly, I think the quickest way
Speaker 3: of ending this war is to give Ukraine the support
Speaker 3: it needs to prosecute the war against what is an
Speaker 3: illegal invasion and attempted annexation.
Speaker 2: Do you have any optimism as a result of the
Speaker 2: world leaders or gathering right now?
Speaker 3: I think it's a would move. I would personally like
Speaker 3: to have seen New Zealand represented. This is no slight
Speaker 3: on the Minister for Police, but heads of state fifty
Speaker 3: countries are setting their heads of state, including by the way, Japan,
Speaker 3: where mister Luxan is about to visit. So I would
Speaker 3: have liked to have seen either the Prime Minister or
Speaker 3: the Foreign Minister or the Defense minister being present in Switzerland.
Speaker 3: But it is an important conference because it's important for
Speaker 3: liberal democracy is in particular to show their solidarity with
Speaker 3: a country like Ukraine, which is a liberal democracy. But
Speaker 3: it's also a country which has given up nuclear weapons.
Speaker 3: You know, it shares that with New Zealand that we
Speaker 3: have non nuclear two countries have a non nuclear vision.
Speaker 3: So it's important. And please we've got someone there. I
Speaker 3: just thought it would have been nice if we've just
Speaker 3: elevated it a bit, but that's you know, it's politics
Speaker 3: as it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, Robert, I really appreciate you taking the time
Speaker 2: to talk to us this afternoon. Thank you so much.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 2: Enjoy the resk of you afternoon. That's Robert Patman. He's
Speaker 2: international relations professor at a Tiger University. Some fascinating insights there. Gosh,
Speaker 2: interesting developments. Isn't it a couple of big things happening
Speaker 2: in that respect? Well, probably I'll throw this into talk
Speaker 2: back as well, actually, is it a mistake that we're
Speaker 2: not sending Christopher Luxen or maybe Winston Peters. I can
Speaker 2: see the logic for Mark Mitchell having served in international
Speaker 2: conflicts and having an insight in that stuff. But from
Speaker 2: a diplomatic point of view, I mean world leaders are
Speaker 2: going and we're sending our minister of Police. I think
Speaker 2: Robert Patman makes an interesting point there. You can text
Speaker 2: me your feedback on nine two nine two anyway. We'll
Speaker 2: be back in just a moment, Brook van veld and
Speaker 2: the Minister for Work PAPST Relationships Relations will join us
Speaker 2: to talk about health and safety in just a moment
Speaker 2: to welcome back to the Weekend collective. By the way,
Speaker 2: anytime you want to send your feedback in text on
Speaker 2: nine two nine two and right moving on, so, Workplace
Speaker 2: Relations and Safety Minister Brook van Velden has opened consultation
Speaker 2: for an overhaul of the Health and Safety at Work Act.
Speaker 2: Plans for reform come as part of the National and
Speaker 2: Act Coalition agreement. Minister Van Velden made the consultation announcement
Speaker 2: on Friday, saying our health and safety culture can be
Speaker 2: summed up by the sea of orange road cones that
Speaker 2: have taken over the country, from Santa parades to property development.
Speaker 2: You can't get a lot done without having to set
Speaker 2: up a barricade of cones. Workplace Relations and Safety Minister
Speaker 2: Brook van Velden joins me.
Speaker 3: Now, good afternoon, Good afternoon, Tim, How are you.
Speaker 2: I'm pretty good. Thanks. You know the thing that stuck
Speaker 2: out Santa parades? What's happening at Santa parades?
Speaker 6: Like this was just one example. And I talk to
Speaker 6: people all the time and say, you can't get anywhere
Speaker 6: around Auckland, or around any one of our main highways,
Speaker 6: or anywhere in the country, to be frank without encountering
Speaker 6: orange cones everywhere. And just as I was on my
Speaker 6: way to make that announcement down at Field, we came
Speaker 6: across hundreds of orange cones on the way, on the
Speaker 6: sides of the road, and they didn't appear to be
Speaker 6: any good reason or justification for them. So we're hoping
Speaker 6: to ask some good, genuine questions of our health and
Speaker 6: safety today. Yeah, I'm sure in many cases they make
Speaker 6: sense to keep people safe, but are we overdoing it
Speaker 6: in other cases?
Speaker 2: Okay, so they're an example is sort of an obvious example.
Speaker 2: We can all relate to more specifically outside of that
Speaker 2: what is broken and what needs to be fixed.
Speaker 6: But what is really broken here is many people, businesses
Speaker 6: and workers are not sure what they should be doing
Speaker 6: to comply with health and safety, and so we're seeing
Speaker 6: people put up posters and their work environments wondering is
Speaker 6: that enough to keep my workers safe? And other times
Speaker 6: we have a lot of cops added to business. Business
Speaker 6: owners are now questioning whether or not what they're doing
Speaker 6: to comply is actually leading to better outcomes. So what
Speaker 6: I'm hoping to do with this consultation is go around
Speaker 6: to New zealand talk to as many different industry groups
Speaker 6: from the business side as well as the worker's perspective
Speaker 6: to understand whether the laws and the regulations are working
Speaker 6: for specific industries and whether or not they're too prescriptive
Speaker 6: or whether they're too relaxed. Until we've got those questions answered,
Speaker 6: I'm not going to say I know all of the answers.
Speaker 2: Do businesses know what's expected of them under the current legislation.
Speaker 6: In many cases, people are following the guidance that's given
Speaker 6: by Work Safe, and they do feel like there is
Speaker 6: very good guidance there. But on the other hand, I've
Speaker 6: also spoken to business owners who aren't sure whether or
Speaker 6: not they're doing what they need to to comply. In
Speaker 6: many cases, when we're bringing in this director liability to businesses,
Speaker 6: there is a bit of a gray zone on who
Speaker 6: is actually liable. Is it the business owner, is it
Speaker 6: the manager, is it the people on the ground. Well,
Speaker 6: in some cases it's everyone, but people are unclear. So
Speaker 6: what we're hoping to do is make those laws clearer
Speaker 6: and also ask whether or not the costs are outweighing
Speaker 6: the benefits in some cases. But let's actually get a
Speaker 6: better understanding of what's happening out there and why it's
Speaker 6: so hard for people to comply.
Speaker 2: Of course, inevitably, I imagine it's we're always going to have
Speaker 2: to balance this need for safety and practicalities and common sense.
Speaker 2: And you talk about balancing that in your press release,
Speaker 2: the need for safety with the practicalities and common sense.
Speaker 2: Are you going to be able to do it without
Speaker 2: still having to rely on terms such as so far
Speaker 2: as is reasonably practicable? Or are there away? Is there
Speaker 2: always going to have to be some sort of general
Speaker 2: sort of by the way, what do you reckon?
Speaker 6: Yeah, And that's one of the central questions that we'll
Speaker 6: be asking, how do you determine what is reasonably practicable?
Speaker 6: In some industries, people have been asking for the law
Speaker 6: to be very black and white so they can be
Speaker 6: one hundred percent clear that they have complied. And in others, no,
Speaker 6: this is far too prescriptive. We don't want that. And
Speaker 6: that's in the case of the orange cones. You know
Speaker 6: that's actually written out how far distance they should be
Speaker 6: between each cone. That's getting into really nitty gritty, niche
Speaker 6: prescriptive law. Those questions, I think do need to be asked.
Speaker 6: How prescriptive is right for specific industries and is it
Speaker 6: too prescriptive in some cases and not prescriptive enough in others.
Speaker 6: So I'm hoping going all the way from paying a
Speaker 6: Day all the way down to in Vicago, we'll get
Speaker 6: a better picture as a government of what is happening
Speaker 6: on the ground and how we can make sure that
Speaker 6: health and safety compliance doesn't cripple productivity because we know
Speaker 6: that we've got that issue. But on the other hand,
Speaker 6: ensuring that we are keeping people safe work so that
Speaker 6: they are returning home to their families. It's about the balance.
Speaker 2: Well, the Greens are protecting death. Their spokesperson too Too,
Speaker 2: says more workers are going to die as a result
Speaker 2: of this move. It's that simple. Is it that simple.
Speaker 6: It's not that simple. It's not that simple. It really
Speaker 6: does come down to that balance. Yes, at the heart
Speaker 6: of this, I want to make sure that everybody goes
Speaker 6: home safe at the end of the day when they're
Speaker 6: out there providing for their families, that they return home
Speaker 6: to their families. But on the other hand, if we
Speaker 6: burden companies and business owners with compliance and compliance and
Speaker 6: more cost and more regulation, and it doesn't actually lead
Speaker 6: to better outcomes for the workers, is it beneficial not
Speaker 6: just for that business, not just for that worker, but
Speaker 6: for overall economy. So we need to be ripping back
Speaker 6: the layers and seeing whether or not all of these
Speaker 6: rules and restrictions are actually leading to better outcomes and
Speaker 6: are beneficial.
Speaker 2: Are you expecting a difference in feedback from workers as
Speaker 2: opposed to businesses and have you received Is there a
Speaker 2: difference in approaches from people who are working within those
Speaker 2: businesses themselves. I think I'm.
Speaker 6: Expecting to receive a range of feedback, especially when you
Speaker 6: think from the worker's perspective, You've got advocacy groups that
Speaker 6: are looking at it from a collective perspective, but I'm
Speaker 6: also very interested in hearing from individual worker experiences that
Speaker 6: may not usually be captured through the unions or through
Speaker 6: advocacy groups, because I don't feel in consultation here as
Speaker 6: they are quite well represented. So I'm hoping to get
Speaker 6: as many perspectives as possible, but also bearing in mind
Speaker 6: that under the law, workers also do have a responsibility
Speaker 6: to keep themselves in their colleagues safe as well, not
Speaker 6: just the business owner. So it'll be very interesting from
Speaker 6: my perspective to see whether or not people are aware
Speaker 6: of what their obligations are, whether or not it's the
Speaker 6: business owner feel like they need to do everything to
Speaker 6: keep people safe.
Speaker 2: Is everything up for review, like the consequences with the
Speaker 2: fines up to one hundred thousand dollars or to half
Speaker 2: a million, et cetera, and beyond if they're a company,
Speaker 2: is everything up for review?
Speaker 6: Well, in my perspective, everything is up for review. We
Speaker 6: need to know that the costs and benefits are balanced,
Speaker 6: but also that when we have work Safe as a
Speaker 6: regulator going out there and creating prosecutions, that they're actually
Speaker 6: doing that right. As well as what is their engagement
Speaker 6: with guidance with businesses, Because of course we've got businesses
Speaker 6: needing to comply, but we also have the regulator. And
Speaker 6: one thing that's coming through clearly even when I was
Speaker 6: down at Field Days is many people are unsure what
Speaker 6: is the role of the regulator, whether or not they
Speaker 6: are prosecuting in the way that's actually getting the best
Speaker 6: outcomes for business and for the health and safety system.
Speaker 6: So the regulation there is up for review in my
Speaker 6: opinion as well.
Speaker 2: Hey, just out of curious, what's with the road show
Speaker 2: because when I hear road show, I picture a big
Speaker 2: bus with your picture on the side and safety health
Speaker 2: and safety logos and stuff. What does a road show
Speaker 2: look like with Brook van Velden.
Speaker 6: From my perspective, it's making sure that we're on the ground.
Speaker 6: You know, we hear many stories when we're in Wellington.
Speaker 6: We spent four days a week there. I think it's
Speaker 6: really important not just to be in Wellington, but to
Speaker 6: be on the grounds listening to real kiwi's and what
Speaker 6: they have to deal with with the laws that we create.
Speaker 6: So that's what the road show is. It means that
Speaker 6: we're actually getting out of Wellington where the laws are
Speaker 6: made back on to the ground where kiwis live. So
Speaker 6: I want to hear from everybody in their industry in
Speaker 6: their own town and getting out to as many places
Speaker 6: as possible. How is it as law makers accessible?
Speaker 2: How long is it going to take just the road
Speaker 2: show itself.
Speaker 6: It'll be four months. I'll be taking a bit by
Speaker 6: bit by bit of course, following alongside Parliament through the
Speaker 6: weeks as well, So we'll be on and off for
Speaker 6: four weeks and I'm hoping to meet as many people
Speaker 6: as possible. But if people can't actually come out to
Speaker 6: the road show and they might be listening along, I
Speaker 6: encourage anybody who's got opinions on health and safety to
Speaker 6: go onto MB's website. They can just type in my name,
Speaker 6: type in health and safety. I'm sure they'll find it.
Speaker 6: But we want to hear from as many people in
Speaker 6: your own experience as possible.
Speaker 2: Oh it sounds got quite a fun way to go
Speaker 2: around doing your job actually, So I hope you enjoy
Speaker 2: the road trip and we get something productive out of it.
Speaker 6: Good luck, Thank you very much.
Speaker 2: Yes, that's Brook van Velden, Minister for Health and Safety. Look,
Speaker 2: we're going to do talk back after this. Two things,
Speaker 2: we're going to have a chat about the Ukraine issue
Speaker 2: and whether you know the piece offer gave you some
Speaker 2: optimism and it should we have sent one of our leaders?
Speaker 2: Should we have sent Christopher Luxem basically but also health
Speaker 2: and safety? What would you be submitting? Do you think
Speaker 2: we've got Do you think that Brooks on the right path?
Speaker 2: Those road cones and abyanes of our lives? Is that
Speaker 2: just on its own enough to be saying let's overhaul
Speaker 2: an example of why we need to overhaul our health
Speaker 2: and safety regulations. Love to hear from you on eight
Speaker 2: hundred eighty ten eighty in text on nine to nine
Speaker 2: two News Talk z B and welcome back to the
Speaker 2: Weekend Collective. As I've said, it's eight hundred and eighty
Speaker 2: t and eighty. A couple of topics. Your response to
Speaker 2: the Robert Patman interview on whether there is the fact
Speaker 2: that Putin has raised the prospect of you know, doing
Speaker 2: a piece deal even though it's completely unrealistic. Does that
Speaker 2: give you hope? And should we have sink Christph Lux
Speaker 2: And I'm now after listening to Robert Patman, I think
Speaker 2: we made a mistake, much as I like Mark Mitchell
Speaker 2: a lot. And I think that out of all the
Speaker 2: ministers who are not in you know, Deputy Preme Minister,
Speaker 2: Foreign Minister, et cetera, I think actually he does have
Speaker 2: a reasonable level of credibility to go over there, so
Speaker 2: and lucky old him a but and also health and safety.
Speaker 2: Do you think do you agree with Brook van Veld?
Speaker 2: And look at the road cones. Most of the texts
Speaker 2: I've got so far pretty much hate road cones. We've
Speaker 2: got lots of texts just indicating so maybe that on
Speaker 2: its own is cause for revisiting it. Anyway, Let's let's
Speaker 2: get on with some of the Let's take some of
Speaker 2: the calls I one hundred and eighty ten eighty and
Speaker 2: there are some spear lines if you want to jump
Speaker 2: on it. I've got plenty of text feedback. But if
Speaker 2: you want to have your say right now, then we'd
Speaker 2: love to hear from you. Right, let's go to Chuck Gooday,
Speaker 2: oh hi.
Speaker 4: I think there has to be a compromise because there's
Speaker 4: not much choice, just something that putin to get a
Speaker 4: little save a bit of face to his own population,
Speaker 4: give them some land. Maybe what he's asking for in
Speaker 4: return he has to agree to the Ukraine joining Needle
Speaker 4: and when that happens. If that happens, that means he
Speaker 4: breaks he moves on the new boundary, he'll be up against.
Speaker 2: Would you tru I mean, I think this is a
Speaker 2: dumb question in a way because I think I know
Speaker 2: the answer. But how okay, how far would you trustin?
Speaker 4: Not?
Speaker 2: Would you trust him?
Speaker 4: It's not a matter of trust. He's not totally stupid.
Speaker 4: If he agrees and Ukraine joins Natal like if he
Speaker 4: hits Poland, now he'll be tackling all of Europe. So
Speaker 4: if you say you can have it, these are the
Speaker 4: new boundaries. You cross the boundary and you're up against
Speaker 4: all the European countries and maybe the US.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what do you make of just quickly? What do
Speaker 2: you make of the summit? As well? Because I haven't
Speaker 2: got myself distracted by Putina? Of course the summit's a
Speaker 2: big deal, isn't it.
Speaker 4: No, I disagree with who's the expert you have on? Yeah?
Speaker 4: I think, oh, what's his name? Oh that's going there,
Speaker 4: Mark Mitchell, Mark Mitchell. He's excellent, he's got the experience.
Speaker 4: I think in a lot of ways he could off
Speaker 4: for ideas he'd be as good as luck.
Speaker 2: Well, No, to be fair, he did say he meant
Speaker 2: no disrespect from He was just talking about the office,
Speaker 2: you know, having the office of the Prime Minister deep
Speaker 2: And I think that's a fair enough comment, doesn't it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, But with someday like Mark Mitchell, with his experience
Speaker 4: in overseas in the military, I think he would be excellent.
Speaker 2: Excellent, good on you that we'll put a vote of
Speaker 2: We'll put a tick in the vote of confidence in
Speaker 2: Mark Mitchell. There from Chuck, good on you mate, thanks
Speaker 2: for your col Mike good you.
Speaker 7: Hide him just talking about health and safety. I got
Speaker 7: into facilities management in twenty fifteen and I think it
Speaker 7: was like a year after that the government, the new
Speaker 7: legislation came in for health and safety management, which is
Speaker 7: a good thing, but yeah, it was quite expensive for
Speaker 7: a lot of building owners and what have you to
Speaker 7: implement the regulations. But they'd get detailed reports from provided
Speaker 7: health and safety providers to highlight and identify hazards all
Speaker 7: over the show on a building in a building, and
Speaker 7: that's good. But what I noticed is that a lot
Speaker 7: of contractors would bypass the whole process of signing in
Speaker 7: and reading they don't want to stand around for fifteen
Speaker 7: minutes reading a booklet on what the hazards are. But
Speaker 7: I guess it's prudent just to have them there so
Speaker 7: that the building owners have covered themselves. That.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is a funny one day because when I
Speaker 2: with my constant production work of you've just reminded me
Speaker 2: of some of the facile questions I'm supposed to address,
Speaker 2: Like what's a hazard of being off? Stay on stage?
Speaker 2: Is falling off the stage? What safety procedures I talk
Speaker 2: to my singers and say, don't fall off the stage,
Speaker 2: or you know, there are some It does force you
Speaker 2: into some fairly ridiculous over compensating, don't you think.
Speaker 7: Yeah, oh it is, well it can't Well it's not
Speaker 7: really funny, but it is. Well, yeah, some of the
Speaker 7: some of the things that are identified, Like you're telling
Speaker 7: an electrician be aware of electrical hazards.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, obviously the consequences they're probably worth pointing
Speaker 2: it out.
Speaker 7: Well, they're aware. I'm pretty sure they're aware.
Speaker 2: Of watch out. Well, yeah, I guess so. But for
Speaker 2: the apprentices, you know, there probably might be a news
Speaker 2: flash for them. It's like that particular connection there you know,
Speaker 2: it's not good enough to do X, Y and z,
Speaker 2: But of course that's the serious stuff, isn't it. Yeah.
Speaker 7: Yeah, But at the end of the day, it is
Speaker 7: good to be able to point out to your fellow
Speaker 7: brothers and sisters hazards around the place and give them
Speaker 7: a heads up so that they're aware of the dangers. Yeah.
Speaker 2: No, you're right. I think actually, you know, the drawing
Speaker 2: your attention to what the risks are and addressing it.
Speaker 2: But it suddenly reminded me because I was thinking about
Speaker 2: the health and my own engagement with health and safety
Speaker 2: and some of the things you're supposed to go through,
Speaker 2: and of course a lot of them common sense, but
Speaker 2: maybe it doesn't hurt to think about it anyway. That's
Speaker 2: let's carry on, David.
Speaker 8: Hello, Yeah, gooday, Yeah. I thought it's pretty disturbed, to
Speaker 8: be honest. With Robert Patman's interview, he said it was
Speaker 8: an unprovoked war. It's been provoked for a very long time,
Speaker 8: pretty much the break up of the Soviet Union and
Speaker 8: with you know, Perusian was who he actually asked to
Speaker 8: join NATO, and you know, America and NATO have just
Speaker 8: slapped him down repeatedly. But you know, The worst thing
Speaker 8: was in twenty fourteen, and the CIA helped create the
Speaker 8: coup that brought in the more western favoring government, which
Speaker 8: then led on to Zelenski and they began sholling ethnic
Speaker 8: Russians in eastern Well, Ukraine, I.
Speaker 2: Don't quite buy those that interpretation of it. But are
Speaker 2: you saying that Ukraine brought the war upon themselves? That
Speaker 2: Vladimir Pertin's quite entitled to go in there and say
Speaker 2: I want, you know, twenty percent of Ukraine and you've
Speaker 2: only got yourselves to blame for me doing it.
Speaker 8: Well, he said that it was a hard red line,
Speaker 8: what was a hard read law for Ukraine to become
Speaker 8: part of NATO, and Biden they announced that Ukraine is
Speaker 8: going to become part of NATO. You know, well, Ukraine
Speaker 8: was building up the military with their help with Actually.
Speaker 2: Okay, sorry, David, do you okay one, it's none of
Speaker 2: his business what alliances they want to enter into. But
Speaker 2: do you ever think there was a danger that Ukraine
Speaker 2: or anyone in the West wants to Do you really
Speaker 2: think that anyone credibly thinks that Russia is under threats
Speaker 2: somehow from anyone else? Does anyone do you think that
Speaker 2: Ukraine was likely to invade Russia.
Speaker 8: Well, we've already seen this with the Cuban missile crisis
Speaker 8: that very closely led to nuclear war when Russia union.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well I think we can move I think we
Speaker 2: can move on from that, mate. Yeah, okay, but thanks
Speaker 2: for your call.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: The idea, Oh, I'm not going to push back against anymore.
Speaker 2: I think it speaks for itself. A few texts, great
Speaker 2: assessment from Robert Patman and a bit reassuring chairs Steve Tim.
Speaker 2: I'm impressed with Brooks Roads roadshow wave consultation. It certainly
Speaker 2: allows for direct consultation to workers and businesses as opposed
Speaker 2: to just lobbyists in Wellington. Good point. I thought it
Speaker 2: from that point. About that, and Colin also says I've
Speaker 2: got a lot of faith that Brook van Valden will
Speaker 2: listen and bring about change where it's needed. Kent says
Speaker 2: a few people sort of just backing up Mark Mitchell
Speaker 2: as being okay, because who with Mark? Who Mark Mitchell is?
Speaker 2: Kent writes, I'm all right with Mark Mitchell going to
Speaker 2: this peace conference. We have to look after our own
Speaker 2: country in nearby countries. Oh ye, your second sentence, I
Speaker 2: think we really need to. I think a secure Europe
Speaker 2: is a it should be very high in our list
Speaker 2: of priorities Kent. But yeah, you know, I think that
Speaker 2: Mark Mitchell is good. But I think actually to be honest,
Speaker 2: listening to Robert Patman, when everyone else is sending their leaders,
Speaker 2: including Japan, which is where Luxen's visiting, actually think it
Speaker 2: was quite a big mistake that we're sending our Ministry
Speaker 2: of Police tim Robert Patman explained a bit more about
Speaker 2: freezing assets and how that's more effective than sanctions. Bill
Speaker 2: Browse's book Freezing Order is where it all started in
Speaker 2: Wealth Worth Reading, says Cedric thinks Cedric just being to
Speaker 2: Napier for the weekend from Tarranger tounger cones everywhere thirty
Speaker 2: thirty K, sixty K, eighty K, and as per no
Speaker 2: one working the cone business puts out as many as
Speaker 2: twice as many as necessary as they paid per cone,
Speaker 2: they leave them as twice as long as necessary. I
Speaker 2: tell you what if you had bought shares or your
Speaker 2: business owner around the time that health and safety went
Speaker 2: on steroids, I think road cone businesses, and the other
Speaker 2: one was fencing, of course, but you can understand that
Speaker 2: was probably in connection with the earthquake. Some of those
Speaker 2: businesses with fairly simple business plan sell and rent out
Speaker 2: road cones would have made a killing. Tim Look at
Speaker 2: what the health and safety and rules have done to
Speaker 2: the cost of reroofing, more than double the cost, so
Speaker 2: many can no longer now afford to replace a wrecked roof,
Speaker 2: resulting them living in a damp, substandard home. Yeah, don't
Speaker 2: hold your breath for roofing rules to be changed about,
Speaker 2: you know, removing falling hazards and all that sort of stuff. Yeah, anyway, look,
Speaker 2: thanks for all your feedback. As somebody said, Putin should
Speaker 2: just pull out of Ukraine. Who's going to clean up
Speaker 2: the mess he has made? Yeah, I don't buy this
Speaker 2: masochistic thing that somehow, oh Ukraine broadnots on its south by.
Speaker 2: You know, the movements to join, if anything, proves that
Speaker 2: it's important for Ukraine to have friends and to be
Speaker 2: part of NATO. It is exactly what we've witnessed ever
Speaker 2: since Putin rolled his tanks up and over the border.
Speaker 2: The idea that they should never have joined NATO was like, well,
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, but logic I don't think works on that
Speaker 2: front as well. Also, it's the most revolting form of capitulation.
Speaker 2: To think that, oh, we better not do that otherwise
Speaker 2: will make the bully angry. Well, the only thing that's
Speaker 2: going to solve this thing is when the bully gets
Speaker 2: a bit more of a blood nose than he's getting
Speaker 2: right now, unfortunately, and what a bloody tragedy that is.
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