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Speaker 1: Nicole this morning for the automotive sector to bring training

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Speaker 1: back in house. We've got a group of about twenty

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Speaker 1: industry organizations wanting an industry lead, industry owned approach. The

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Speaker 1: MTA chief executive Lee Marshalls with us on this Lee,

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Speaker 1: very good morning to you.

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Speaker 2: Good morning Mike.

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Speaker 1: Is there anything actually stopping you getting on with it?

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Speaker 2: Well, I guess ultimately it's not up to us as

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Speaker 2: it currently stands. MITO, which looks after workplace learning or

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Speaker 2: apprenticeship for the automotive industry, is part of Tippuukenger, So

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Speaker 2: it's really part of that consultation that's currently or has

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Speaker 2: just finished with regards to what happens with the vacational

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Speaker 2: education system. And our ask is that workplace learning for

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Speaker 2: automotive is broken out and returns to industry ownership and leadership.

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Speaker 2: Because what happened under the Tippukenger model, I guess could

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Speaker 2: be best described as fagnation and that's just not acceptable

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Speaker 2: for our industry.

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Speaker 1: Now, I don't blame you, because it's a complete nutter cluster.

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Speaker 1: If it hadn't been teaed de pou King had in

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Speaker 1: other words, it was the old polytics system, would that

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Speaker 1: have still been okay, or is just the system not

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Speaker 1: right for you guys and you need to do your

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Speaker 1: own thing.

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Speaker 2: Look, I wouldn't claim that the old model was perfect,

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Speaker 2: but I think we definitely went backwards. Under the Tipukenger model,

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Speaker 2: standard setting in particular was given to the workforce development councils,

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Speaker 2: which not for every industry as I understand it, but

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Speaker 2: certainly for our industry, was incredibly ineffective. And at a

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Speaker 2: time when you know, the technology that you see in

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Speaker 2: cars is changing at an exponential rate and the education

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Speaker 2: system needs to keep up with that and it just hasn't.

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Speaker 2: We take the view that any body that leads training

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Speaker 2: for our industry needs to be first accountable to the

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Speaker 2: industry it serves, rather than government.

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Speaker 1: So any other industry, would they be all arguing the

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Speaker 1: same thing or are you sort of somehow a bit unique?

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Speaker 2: I think, to be honest, it probably on the sector,

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Speaker 2: and it probably depends on how much confidence that industry

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Speaker 2: had in their body. I mean, I think one of

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Speaker 2: the challenges that we had for automotive is that the

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Speaker 2: problems that Tippukenga was meant to solve, that of standards fragmentation.

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Speaker 2: Lots of different bodies doing different things for the same

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Speaker 2: cause and lack of financial performance. Neither of those applied

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Speaker 2: to automotive. It did work and it did not operate

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Speaker 2: at a loss. So in many ways, I think it

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Speaker 2: depends like there would be others who would have liked

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Speaker 2: the system as it happens because it solved some of

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Speaker 2: those problems, But for us it was always irrelevant. We've

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Speaker 2: gone backwards. We'd like to see it broken back out.

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Speaker 2: We'd like to see more of a focus on workplace

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Speaker 2: learning for our industry.

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Speaker 1: That was the argument at the time. Not everything was broken.

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Speaker 1: Penny Simmons, ironically is now a Cabinet minister. She was

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Speaker 1: running the Southern Institute and they were one of the

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Speaker 1: most successful in the country. But Chris Hepkins, who knows

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Speaker 1: better than anybody, of course, hed he said, it doesn't

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Speaker 1: matter how well you're doing, we'll put it all together,

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Speaker 1: Good old Chris. The thing about the cows I am

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Speaker 1: interested in in and surely everybody knows that the evolution

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Speaker 1: of what's going on under the bonnet is exponential. Why

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Speaker 1: aren't they keeping up with it or why don't they

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Speaker 1: understand they need to keep up with it?

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Speaker 2: So under the tatoo king A model standard setting was

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Speaker 2: removed from the entity that organizes training MICO in our

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Speaker 2: industry's instance, and it was given to the workforce development councils.

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Speaker 2: And I guess I can only say, like you know,

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Speaker 2: having dealt with many of these people, even myself, you

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Speaker 2: know that they approached it with the very best of intents,

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Speaker 2: but it just ultimately did not deliver anything. We really

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Speaker 2: saw two years of stagnation. And the problem with that

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Speaker 2: is you end up with the opposite problem to what

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Speaker 2: you were trying to solve, because if it stagnates for

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Speaker 2: too long, then you'll just have the private sector developing

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Speaker 2: everything the industry needs itself, and all of a sudden

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Speaker 2: you end up with a fragmented system that you were

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Speaker 2: trying to avoid in the beginning. So there is in

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Speaker 2: any case, we'd like to see it returns to industry ownership.

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Speaker 2: We'd like to see a workplace learning focus. We know

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Speaker 2: that the best people in the automotive industry learned by

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Speaker 2: doing the job, not learning in a classroom. You know,

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Speaker 2: the purpose of the vacational education system should not be

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Speaker 2: to get bums on seats to pay. You know, polytech

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Speaker 2: operating deficits.

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Speaker 1: FA too much since. You've been far too logical here.

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Speaker 1: It's it's it's got to stop. Listen. I appreciate your

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Speaker 1: insightly Marshall empty chief executive. Who would have thought that

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Speaker 1: the Minister of Education Chris Hipkins didn't know what he

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Speaker 1: was talking about?

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Speaker 2: For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to

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Speaker 2: news Talks.

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