1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,760 Speaker 1: Just a quick note. This interview with Mark Mitchell was 2 00:00:02,800 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 1: recorded prior to the Tongedito fire Kyota. I'm Chelsea Daniels 3 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:16,520 Speaker 1: and this is the Front Page, a daily podcast presented 4 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:23,600 Speaker 1: by the New Zealand Herald. Mark Mitchell has heralded the 5 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 1: government's promise to be tough on crime. He's been incredibly 6 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 1: clear from the get go that his primary goal is 7 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:37,240 Speaker 1: to make New Zealand an uncomfortable place for gangs to operate. 8 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:43,560 Speaker 1: He holds five portfolios Police Corrections, Emergency Management and Recovery, 9 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 1: Ethnic Communities, and Sports and Recreation. So how does an 10 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 1: MP with so many hats feel about how his government 11 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 1: has tackled the big issues? Today on the Front Page, 12 00:00:56,040 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 1: Mitchell joins us to talk cops, corrections and community. So 13 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 1: first off, Mark, you're very looking, very comfortable. 14 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 2: Whereabouts are you? I'm a marrying you bay beach. 15 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 1: Marrying your Bay beach and whereabouts? Just right on the 16 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:13,840 Speaker 1: beach there. 17 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sitting right on the beach. 18 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 3: And this is is the beach that this is the 19 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:19,039 Speaker 3: when I was a kid, This is. 20 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:21,600 Speaker 2: Where I grew up in that surf club. 21 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:24,839 Speaker 3: I don't know if you can see the surf club yeah, yeah, 22 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 3: that was my surf club, so it's not actually my 23 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 3: electric because I ran had a tie. I was trying 24 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:31,320 Speaker 3: to get back up to my pitch, but I ran 25 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:32,840 Speaker 3: out of time, so I thought I'll go and sit 26 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 3: down of Marrying your Bay Beach and do the podcast 27 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 3: and Chelsea down there. 28 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 1: So Mark, we've seen a scandal this year at the 29 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 1: top of the police chain. There's no denying that. Are 30 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:47,319 Speaker 1: you confident the public still has trust in the New 31 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 1: Zealand Police? 32 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 3: Well, I hope that they do maintain trusted in New 33 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 3: Zealand Police because. 34 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:53,920 Speaker 2: Without a doubt we have got a. 35 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:57,120 Speaker 3: World clast police force, and the size of the organization 36 00:01:57,200 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 3: that we have, there's always going to be the odd 37 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 3: rotten apple in the barrel. And look how police officers 38 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 3: are out there every day, you know, with teams of 39 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 3: thousands of postive actions, protecting and supporting their communities, the communites. 40 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:13,800 Speaker 2: That they serve. 41 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:17,080 Speaker 3: And I'd just like to say Chelsea that this week 42 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 3: I've been to two police Awards ceremonies and probably seventy 43 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 3: five percent of the awards that I see handed out 44 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 3: to police officers that have put themselves in danger, saved 45 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:30,680 Speaker 3: the lives of members of the public. When you see 46 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 3: bad behavior from a police officer, there's no one feels 47 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:38,240 Speaker 3: it more deeply than those thousands of both our sworn 48 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 3: and non sworn staff that are out there actually holding 49 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 3: to and you know, the values and ideals of our 50 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 3: New Zealand police. No one feels it more deeply than 51 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 3: them when there's someone that doesn't hold to those values. 52 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:52,799 Speaker 1: Is it concerning to you, though, that that rotten or 53 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:55,799 Speaker 1: if we're talking about rotten apples, that one of the 54 00:02:55,919 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 1: rotten apples nearly got the top police job, always in 55 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:02,240 Speaker 1: contention for the top police job in this country. 56 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's of course, that's a genuine concern, and I 57 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 3: acknowledge that. 58 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 2: All I'd say is that as the incoming police. 59 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 3: Minister, there with quite a few issues that I had 60 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 3: to view with and one of them was this case. 61 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:17,080 Speaker 3: And I'm sorry that I can't talk to the detail 62 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:20,639 Speaker 3: on a Chelsea but it's actually the case. Although there 63 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 3: has been a guilty plea put in, that's still before 64 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 3: the courts for sentencings, so I can't talk to the 65 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 3: case directly. 66 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 1: That's a good one. We'll move on to crime statistics. 67 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 1: They show a sharp drop in alcohol related violent crime. 68 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 1: Since June twenty twenty four to May this year, the 69 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 1: fallen alcohol involved offending accounted for actually sixty five percent 70 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 1: of the total drop in violent offending. Should the government 71 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 1: do more to curb alcohol related crime? Do you think? 72 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 2: Yeah? I think that. 73 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 3: You know, alcohol and drugs have always been a huge 74 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 3: aggravating factor in terms of the petration and violent crime. 75 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 3: Education has to continue to be a big part of that. 76 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 3: You know, the police are obviously run very effective road 77 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 3: safety programs to make our roads safe. 78 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 2: You know, we've driven down the rates. 79 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 3: Of trunk driving significantly, and there's always differently, there's different 80 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:23,279 Speaker 3: things that police are looking at doing and providing. 81 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 2: Device Who's justice. 82 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 3: Officials in terms of how we can continue to make change? 83 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 3: Is that balance other people's right, the responsible drinkers to. 84 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 2: Have access to our coholum and be able. 85 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 3: To enjoy that responsibly against the ones that aren't responsible 86 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:38,600 Speaker 3: and public safety? 87 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 1: New Zealand's prison population you'll be aware as hitting record highs, 88 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 1: is this a good thing or a bad thing? 89 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:47,039 Speaker 3: Look, I think any society would agree that we don't 90 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 3: want that. We'd love to not have prisons, and we'd 91 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 3: love to have everyone that lives in our societies and 92 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 3: our communities respect one another and not there or. 93 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 2: Perpetrate violent crime against. 94 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 3: The people in society that are laura by it. But unfortunately, 95 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:03,919 Speaker 3: as long as humans have been roaming this earth, that 96 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 3: hasn't been the case. And so we've been very clear 97 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 3: as the end couping government that we are prioritizing public 98 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:12,920 Speaker 3: safety that if we have people in our society and 99 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:14,920 Speaker 3: our communities that don't want to stick to the laws, 100 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 3: they want to hurt people, then you know they are 101 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 3: going to end up and they keep assisting in that 102 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 3: sort of behavior, then they are going to end up 103 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 3: in prison in our correction, still, because we want law 104 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 3: a body citizens to feel safe. 105 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 1: Does it mean the government's stance on being tough on 106 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 1: crime is actually working. 107 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:35,719 Speaker 3: Well, it's working in the sense that the targets that 108 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 3: we sent into and reduction and victimizations, we've already met that. 109 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 3: In fact, we've exceeded that. And of course you'd have 110 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 3: to look at our response as a government, which includes 111 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 3: increased we've made sentencing much tougher, we have reduced the 112 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 3: discounts that we're allowed from you know, you've seen discounts 113 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 3: of seventy eighty percent we get that at forty percent. 114 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:01,720 Speaker 3: And like I said, just as an incoming government, we 115 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 3: have and as the three parties as a coalition, as 116 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 3: a coalition government have been very clear that we are 117 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:10,359 Speaker 3: prioritizing public safety. 118 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:13,159 Speaker 1: What if it's working too well? I mean we've already 119 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 1: hit the population estimates within about ten nine hundred behind bars. 120 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 1: Will there be more money in the kiddy next year 121 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:23,839 Speaker 1: to address how many people are actually going to prison? 122 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 3: Yes, so as of yesterday there is about ten eight 123 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 3: hundred in the prison muster and corrections to an outstanding 124 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:34,360 Speaker 3: job that is literally a daily event and to make 125 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:37,679 Speaker 3: sure that we that everyone is in the right place 126 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 3: and that we're dealing with capacity and rich and do 127 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:43,719 Speaker 3: an outstanding job of that. Will the government continue to 128 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 3: invest into public safety? 129 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:48,280 Speaker 2: Absolutely, because although there was a cost. 130 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 3: Of course incarcerating people and having them in the correction system, 131 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:54,720 Speaker 3: there is a much greater human cost and even the 132 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 3: economic costs to have them out in society, creating with 133 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:01,480 Speaker 3: victims and they have it that they create and the 134 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 3: trail of tears that are often sitting behind that behavior 135 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 3: and that from offending well. 136 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 1: Critics argue that prioritizing longer sentences I see does not 137 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 1: actually reduce reoffending rates. How would you respond to that. 138 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 3: Well, the only way you're going to reduce reoffending rates 139 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 3: is when those offenders. 140 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 2: Genuinely want to change. They genuinely want to. 141 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 3: Embrace making good decisions. They genuinely want to embrace and 142 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 3: see what opportunity just for them in this country. They 143 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 3: genuinely want to embrace the training that is offered and 144 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:33,240 Speaker 3: the support that's offered them to come back and reintegrate 145 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 3: with society in a positive way. Ultimately, that is how 146 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 3: your drive change is each individual wanting to make those 147 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 3: changes in their lives and not wanting to make bad 148 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 3: decisions and make allse excuses for those fair decisions. 149 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 2: All that we can do is. 150 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 3: A country, in the state is provide them with the 151 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 3: mechanisms be able. 152 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 2: To do that. And I know that we've got a 153 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 2: big focus. 154 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 3: In fact, we put seventy million dollars additional money into 155 00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 3: rehabilitation programs in our correction services so that we give 156 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 3: the ability of the best fighting charge and when they 157 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:05,679 Speaker 3: do come out, they do make good decision. But ultimately, Chelsea, 158 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 3: it comes down to personal responsibility. 159 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 2: It comes down to each one. 160 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 3: Of those individuals wanting to make change, and until they do, 161 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 3: until they actually want to make change. In my view 162 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 3: and my opinion and my experience, you can throw all 163 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 3: the goodwill, all the programs, and all the investment you 164 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 3: want at those people. 165 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 2: They will not change until they want to. 166 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:34,680 Speaker 4: As I've said before, gangs are not nice people. Minison Minture, 167 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:37,320 Speaker 4: Minister Goldsmith and I campaigned on cracking down on gangs 168 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 4: and making their life as uncomfortable as possible, and that 169 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 4: is exactly why we have passed the laws. We have 170 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 4: to ban all gang patches and insignia in public places 171 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:49,199 Speaker 4: to empower the police to stop criminal gangs from associating 172 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:52,319 Speaker 4: and communicating with each other, enabling the courts to issue 173 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 4: non consulting orders to gang members, and we're ensuring that 174 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 4: greater weight as given to gang membership at sentencing as well, 175 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 4: enabling the courts to an act even more severe punishments. 176 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:06,680 Speaker 1: I remember when you first became police minister, you actually 177 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 1: offered up you know, you were offering up people your 178 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:11,320 Speaker 1: personal phone number to see you know, if you do 179 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 1: want to say, leave a gang, I will personally help you. 180 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 1: Has anyone taken. 181 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:16,679 Speaker 4: You up on that offer? 182 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:18,840 Speaker 2: No? I haven't had any. I guess you're right that 183 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:19,120 Speaker 2: I have. 184 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 3: I've headed out my number two gang members that have 185 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 3: indicated to me that they do want to lead change, 186 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:26,840 Speaker 3: they do want to make change, especially those gang members 187 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:28,679 Speaker 3: with families, so that we've because you know, the most 188 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 3: important thing we can do is break that into generational 189 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:36,320 Speaker 3: gang membership that impacts so negatively on the children that 190 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 3: are born into that environment, you know. So yes, of 191 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 3: course I'm on standby always to help those that genuinely 192 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 3: want to make change, especially those with children. 193 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 2: But the flip side of it is is policemeness. 194 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:51,560 Speaker 3: So I've also been very clear that to help affect 195 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 3: that change, if we have to make it very difficult 196 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 3: to be a game member in New Zealan, to be 197 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 3: part of organized crime, to be part of a group 198 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 3: that inflicts a massive disproportionate with out of palm on 199 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:04,680 Speaker 3: our communities. We're going to continue to do that as well, 200 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:06,440 Speaker 3: and the police are being very effective of doing that. 201 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:10,719 Speaker 1: How do you reckon the gang patch band's been going. 202 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:14,560 Speaker 2: It's been hugely successful, it's been very effective. The feedback. 203 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:16,679 Speaker 3: I've just come from a public meeting right now where 204 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:21,080 Speaker 3: the feedback and the public's been extremely positive and the 205 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:24,960 Speaker 3: frontline police office themselves are really enjoying having those powers 206 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:27,959 Speaker 3: so they can reassert themselves and the public can see 207 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:30,440 Speaker 3: that our police are controlling the streets and not be 208 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 3: in that awful position that we were three years ago 209 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 3: where the gangs. We're controlling the streets where they're coming 210 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:38,840 Speaker 3: out and taking over public places and timidating them from 211 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 3: the public, taking over our provincial towns where they were 212 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 3: shutting down public roads in the public pultn't move Pidston 213 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 3: Gusiness School. You haven't seen here that in the last 214 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 3: two years because the police have been so effective and 215 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 3: putting together gang disruption units and making sure that they're 216 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:57,559 Speaker 3: proactive and using the new gang legislation. You know, it's 217 00:10:57,600 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 3: a good thing that people don't see gang pictures around 218 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 3: anymore because they're quite silly designed the skier and interiminates people. 219 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 1: So we'll move on to your capacity as Minister for 220 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:09,560 Speaker 1: Ethnic Communities, and I know that this is one that 221 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 1: you probably haven't been asked about as often as your 222 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:17,200 Speaker 1: your breadth of other portfolios, I suppose, But in that 223 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 1: capacity you condemned the Destiny Church march against foreign religions 224 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:26,440 Speaker 1: that was back in June. It's pretty bone chilling to 225 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:30,040 Speaker 1: see such a display in New Zealand and on our 226 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 1: streets here. Do you think what's happening overseas? And I'm 227 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:37,480 Speaker 1: thinking of those images of you know, Nazis walking down 228 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:41,600 Speaker 1: streets in Melbourne, for example, Do you think that's spilling 229 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:44,520 Speaker 1: over slowly to New Zealand and are you worried? 230 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 3: Well, I've working really hard as Minister if the Community 231 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:50,560 Speaker 3: to fortify itself. There's a company and we've got you know, 232 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 3: we've got such diversity in our country. We've got leaders 233 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:57,880 Speaker 3: in every single one of our ethnic communities and our 234 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 3: faith and religious leaders that completely bind to. 235 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 2: The fact that we should always protect what is so. 236 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 3: Fundamentally important to democracy, and that is the freedom protest 237 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 3: and the freedom of speech. But we can do that 238 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 3: in a peaceful and tolerant way. And so a big 239 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 3: part of what I've been doing as Minister of Communities, 240 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 3: it's working across all of our communities, all of our 241 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:23,760 Speaker 3: faith leaders, reinforcing that message around social cohesion, making sure 242 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:25,720 Speaker 3: that we don't see that type of violence start to 243 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:28,160 Speaker 3: wash up on our own shores here in New Zealand. 244 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 3: Be mindful of the fact that we will see that 245 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:35,679 Speaker 3: we've seen so much conflict and the vision around the 246 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:37,560 Speaker 3: world at the moment that we've got to work extra 247 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:40,200 Speaker 3: hard and making sure that if we have a community 248 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 3: and if we have a community in New Zealand that 249 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:46,720 Speaker 3: feels unsafe or is veehicful, that we rep support around 250 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:48,560 Speaker 3: them and do that we can to make sure that 251 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 3: we deal with that as part. 252 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 1: Of this portfolio. And I guess your role as Police 253 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 1: minister as well, have you received any advice from your 254 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 1: Australian counterparts about what the stark rise in this kind 255 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 1: of happening in Victoria. 256 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:03,439 Speaker 3: No, I haven't, but we can all see it and 257 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:06,440 Speaker 3: I had been out to Victoria recently. I was out 258 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 3: there a month ago with our. 259 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 2: Permissioner for the for the service of the plan. 260 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:16,080 Speaker 3: Victorian police officers out there, but you can see it 261 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:16,960 Speaker 3: out of the streets. 262 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 2: And of course yes I. 263 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 3: Came out and condemned Brian Tummocky and the Destiny pursh 264 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 3: because they have a right to get out there and 265 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:28,959 Speaker 3: the freedom to protest like everyone does. But that turned 266 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:31,880 Speaker 3: into really what everyone considered was over violence. When you 267 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:37,400 Speaker 3: start ripping flags, specifically targeting different communities and stabbing them 268 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 3: that scares people, that is actually frightening, and so they 269 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:45,520 Speaker 3: should actually reflect on the way that they are carrying 270 00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 3: out those protests. And that applies to any group in 271 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 3: New general. There's a way to be able to get 272 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:53,360 Speaker 3: out there protests, to get your messapacity from without resorting 273 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:56,839 Speaker 3: this sort of over violent acts and the ripping and 274 00:13:56,880 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 3: burning the flags and trying to scare people. 275 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:09,520 Speaker 5: There is aspects of speech which should not be allowed. 276 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 5: For example, people who say you should kill Chelsea Daniels. 277 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 5: She's a very bad person and she deserves it. You 278 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 5: probably have to edit this out. I mean, that's that's 279 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:23,520 Speaker 5: my ringtime, all right, that would be wrong and it's 280 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 5: a horrible thing to say, and arguably incitement. There are 281 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 5: legitimate restrictions on speech, But what's not a legitimate restriction 282 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 5: on speech is saying you can't say that because it's 283 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 5: hateful or it will offend someone or hurt someone's feelings. 284 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 5: Because as soon as you give someone in society the 285 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 5: power to enforce that, it becomes impossible to restrain that power. 286 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 1: Do you think there needs to be better laws in 287 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:56,400 Speaker 1: place that clearly outlines I guess what determines free speech 288 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 1: and what determines hate speech, perhaps because that's a really 289 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:00,920 Speaker 1: tricky area, isn't it. 290 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 2: Yes, And we shouldn't go down that rabbit hole. That's 291 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 2: a whole other Well, it is, it is, and the 292 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 2: reality of it is is. 293 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 3: That we must protect the freedom to the freet of 294 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:14,360 Speaker 3: a speech in this country because the minute you try. 295 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 2: To start to unfringe on that, where do you start? 296 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 2: Where He's gone? 297 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 3: And we all have the right to exercise our free speech. 298 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 3: Destiny Church chose to exercise their right pre speech in 299 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 3: the way that they did, and I chose to exercise 300 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 3: my right to pre speech by coming out condemning what 301 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 3: they did. 302 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 1: What's been your biggest achievement in any of your portfolio's 303 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:35,600 Speaker 1: while in governments so far? 304 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:38,360 Speaker 2: Ah, Look, that's that's a really good question. 305 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:40,320 Speaker 3: Look, I'm very proud of the work that we're doing 306 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:43,240 Speaker 3: and the way that our police force has responded to 307 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:46,480 Speaker 3: our new set of priorities when we came into government. 308 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 3: I just think the work they're doing, it's quite still 309 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 3: the outstanding, the anecdotal feedback I get from the public, 310 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:54,760 Speaker 3: the results that we've seen starting to float through. You know, 311 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 3: I'm just so proud of what they're doing. And what 312 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 3: they're achieving emergency men management. You know, I've had nineteen 313 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 3: local States emergency since i'veig Minister. We are making fundamental 314 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:07,000 Speaker 3: change in the way that we look at and approach 315 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 3: these things. 316 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 2: We've had report after report after. 317 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 3: Our national States Emergency highlighting the issues that we need 318 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 3: to change. 319 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:16,800 Speaker 2: We're doing that. We've got an investment being coming through 320 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:18,360 Speaker 2: that back to Cabinet. 321 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 3: We've got new legislation that will provide us a solid 322 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:26,600 Speaker 3: platform as a country who operates from corrections. Look, without 323 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:30,600 Speaker 3: a doubt, I am so proud of our correction Service. 324 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 3: All of our officers that are either in a directions 325 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 3: facility or out in the community doing community related corrections work. 326 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:40,560 Speaker 2: With you know, up to twenty five to thirty thousand 327 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 2: people at any one time. 328 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:45,520 Speaker 3: That is such a difficult, challenging job, and they're dealing 329 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 3: with some of the most violent and difficult people that 330 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:50,560 Speaker 3: we have in society, and there's a tens of thousands 331 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 3: of positive actions every week. My big focus there is WHAT'SIP. 332 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 3: We've been the delivery of the rehabilitation and an officer 333 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:00,040 Speaker 3: of station. 334 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 2: Doing great work. 335 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:06,480 Speaker 3: They've launched two products in the last months that to 336 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:08,440 Speaker 3: trials that are going that are very effective. 337 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:11,840 Speaker 2: The expect to report back on one of those sports 338 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:14,119 Speaker 2: and wreck. You know, that's that's a. 339 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 1: Good I forgot about that one. You've got your juggling 340 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:27,200 Speaker 1: so many hats, Mark, do you sleep, yes, occasionally, so 341 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 1: you must be all over the place. 342 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:31,200 Speaker 2: I've got a great team, and I'm very lucky. 343 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:33,240 Speaker 3: And I've got a team that's been med the entire 344 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:35,920 Speaker 3: two years and and I could not do them do that, 345 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:37,960 Speaker 3: do it without them, And they there right behind me 346 00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:42,159 Speaker 3: the whole time, and they deserve huge recognition and and 347 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:46,159 Speaker 3: and great chief executives and and you know, so you know, 348 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:48,960 Speaker 3: I'm very very lucky. And that's that's enabling, and it 349 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 3: makes a minister's job much easier. I'm just trying to think, 350 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:55,879 Speaker 3: you've listed out there. We've got police, We've got correction, 351 00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:58,480 Speaker 3: we've got the community. 352 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 2: It's the Yeah. I mean that they're all just they're 353 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 2: all fantastic agencies. 354 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:07,040 Speaker 3: And you know, I have the privilege of having a 355 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:10,679 Speaker 3: front row seat seen the ten thousands of positive actions. 356 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:11,880 Speaker 2: I get reports every. 357 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 3: Week of the outstanding work that our friction cops is 358 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 3: still is at mounted in prison. A couple of weeks 359 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:19,880 Speaker 3: ago they saved the life of the prisoner. Like I said, 360 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 3: I've been at the recently at the Police awards ceremonies, 361 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:27,000 Speaker 3: and it's and and and Sadly, the only time that 362 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:29,119 Speaker 3: you often hear about Richard or Police are any of 363 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:32,399 Speaker 3: these is when there's a negative story running in the media. 364 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:33,520 Speaker 2: And that's life and I sit that. 365 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:36,680 Speaker 3: But but you know what, there's just so they do 366 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 3: so much positive stuff for us in the country, and 367 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:41,440 Speaker 3: I just think we should be so thankful that that 368 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:42,000 Speaker 3: we got them. 369 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:45,440 Speaker 1: Have you started thinking about next year's election yet or 370 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:47,679 Speaker 1: do you even have time to think that far ahead? 371 00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 3: No, not, not really because there was so much going on. 372 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:55,399 Speaker 3: They're still we're still doing some major reforms, you know. 373 00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:57,399 Speaker 3: I think we start thinking about the election as we 374 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 3: move into next year. But right at the moment, especially 375 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 3: with emergency management. I'll be down to South Orlands for 376 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:06,399 Speaker 3: last week, you know, with the response and then the 377 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:08,800 Speaker 3: recovery is just supportant with the response with rot in 378 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 3: the middle of there. 379 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:13,440 Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us, Mark say, thank you, Chelsea, thank 380 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:14,119 Speaker 2: you for having me on. 381 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:20,600 Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You 382 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:24,600 Speaker 1: can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage 383 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:28,680 Speaker 1: at enzidherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is 384 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:32,160 Speaker 1: produced by Jane Ye and Richard Martin, who is also 385 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:36,879 Speaker 1: our editor. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the Front Page 386 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:40,520 Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune 387 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 1: in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.