WEBVTT - Martin Hawes: Don't start a small business 0:00:05.761 --> 0:00:09.401 You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks 0:00:09.561 --> 0:00:12.561 ed be Welcome back to the Weekend Collective. I'm Tim 0:00:12.601 --> 0:00:14.881 Beverage And if you're missing in the previous hours, I 0:00:14.881 --> 0:00:17.521 would recommend going to check out the podcast Fantastic Chat 0:00:17.521 --> 0:00:20.641 with Alex Flint there just about getting your exercise habit 0:00:20.721 --> 0:00:23.881 started and and all of that should I say about anyway, 0:00:24.001 --> 0:00:26.801 you can check out the Weekend Collective podcast at iHeartRadio. 0:00:26.961 --> 0:00:29.921 Right now, it is time for Smart Money and my guest, 0:00:30.201 --> 0:00:33.481 well he needs no introduction really, Martin Wores. How you doing? 0:00:34.081 --> 0:00:35.841 Yeah, very well? 0:00:35.841 --> 0:00:38.081 Thinked if you got a business card, that's one who 0:00:38.081 --> 0:00:40.041 has a business card. But you could probably just write 0:00:40.081 --> 0:00:41.481 financial guru, couldn't you. 0:00:42.041 --> 0:00:44.561 I don't have a big business card, and I if 0:00:44.601 --> 0:00:49.641 I had one, what would probably financial writer and financial speaker. 0:00:50.041 --> 0:00:52.241 Oh well, that's not as much fun as guru. I 0:00:52.321 --> 0:00:52.961 like guru. 0:00:53.441 --> 0:00:55.241 Yeah, yeah, I like as well. 0:00:55.641 --> 0:00:59.001 Maybe it's promising too much. It's a little bit SI. Yeah, 0:00:59.001 --> 0:01:01.601 it could be reminded of how many books have you written. 0:01:01.961 --> 0:01:04.721 I've written twenty three books. I've actually written twenty four 0:01:05.041 --> 0:01:09.001 because I handed the manuscript of my twenty fourth book 0:01:09.281 --> 0:01:13.161 into the publishers a couple of weeks ago and doing 0:01:13.201 --> 0:01:14.841 their thing on it. At the moment. It won't be 0:01:14.841 --> 0:01:19.321 out till next year or so, but that'll been number 0:01:19.361 --> 0:01:19.921 twenty four. 0:01:20.281 --> 0:01:24.121 What how I can look. I can imagine someone going, 0:01:24.201 --> 0:01:26.001 I've got a book in me and I'm going to 0:01:26.001 --> 0:01:28.681 start writing it. And you've done twenty three. And now, 0:01:28.721 --> 0:01:30.441 as you say, twenty four is not out yet, but 0:01:30.441 --> 0:01:33.841 you've written it. Yeah, what motivated number twenty four? 0:01:35.641 --> 0:01:39.001 About five years ago I had a real old disruption 0:01:39.121 --> 0:01:41.801 of my life and I left Queenstown, where I'd live 0:01:41.841 --> 0:01:44.481 for twenty odd years, and moved to christ Church, which 0:01:44.521 --> 0:01:46.881 is where I live now. And you know, whenever you 0:01:46.881 --> 0:01:48.921 have a big disruption in your life, you meant to 0:01:49.041 --> 0:01:52.961 go through your finances, aspect by aspect, all the different things. 0:01:53.041 --> 0:01:55.521 And I did that, and I made a new will, 0:01:55.801 --> 0:02:00.681 I wound up the family trust that I've had, I 0:02:00.721 --> 0:02:04.761 got my investments managed by someone else. And it was 0:02:04.801 --> 0:02:07.961 such an interesting process which happened over two or three 0:02:08.041 --> 0:02:10.441 years that I thought I would be writing up. So 0:02:10.481 --> 0:02:14.881 the book is partly biographical, but it's partly also advice. 0:02:14.961 --> 0:02:17.681 Here are the things that I did, and here are 0:02:17.681 --> 0:02:22.041 the thing here's how it worked out warts and all. Wow, 0:02:23.161 --> 0:02:27.481 made a few mistakes and doing that, well, they weren't 0:02:27.601 --> 0:02:30.481 really mistakes. One of the things I did was I 0:02:30.521 --> 0:02:37.041 canceled my health insurance to self insure, and I put aside, 0:02:37.361 --> 0:02:40.001 you know, quite a sizeable some of money. And the 0:02:40.041 --> 0:02:42.321 idea was that I would pay what had used to 0:02:42.361 --> 0:02:45.721 be the equivalent of the premiums into. 0:02:45.601 --> 0:02:48.121 A get ahead of it yep, yep. 0:02:48.241 --> 0:02:52.521 And within three months of doing this, I was under 0:02:52.561 --> 0:02:55.441 the knife, having having an operation, and then a month 0:02:55.481 --> 0:02:56.921 after that I had another operation. 0:02:57.201 --> 0:02:58.561 So did you spend it all? 0:03:00.081 --> 0:03:03.841 No? No, I haven't spent I've still still got a 0:03:03.881 --> 0:03:06.801 bit of back up there and I can afford to 0:03:06.841 --> 0:03:09.001 self insurance. I mean, it would be a disaster for 0:03:09.041 --> 0:03:12.761 somebody who hadn't put the money aside and such like. 0:03:13.121 --> 0:03:16.361 And you know, I'm of an age retirement age where 0:03:16.601 --> 0:03:20.081 I see a lot of people who ask questions about 0:03:20.081 --> 0:03:22.961 health insurance because getting as you get older, it gets 0:03:23.001 --> 0:03:24.521 really really expensive. 0:03:24.641 --> 0:03:26.321 That is a problem, Isn't it actually funny? As you 0:03:26.361 --> 0:03:28.601 were talking about that and saving it, I have you 0:03:28.641 --> 0:03:30.001 still got it? And I was thinking of that black 0:03:30.041 --> 0:03:32.561 added quote when somebody stolen some money from Baldrick and 0:03:32.601 --> 0:03:34.521 he goes, what about that tuppence? It was under my 0:03:34.561 --> 0:03:36.881 pillow and he goes, seen it, pinched it, spent it. 0:03:39.081 --> 0:03:40.681 I was wondering, if you're about to deliver that line 0:03:40.681 --> 0:03:41.641 on your health insurance. 0:03:42.001 --> 0:03:45.321 No, no, no, there's still some money there. So and 0:03:45.641 --> 0:03:49.601 you know, health insurance, you know it's important to some people, 0:03:49.681 --> 0:03:53.841 but it's mostly about Q jumping. I've had a bit 0:03:53.841 --> 0:03:56.801 of experience now in both the public and the private system, 0:03:57.401 --> 0:04:00.641 and the public system is slow to get into it. 0:04:00.561 --> 0:04:01.841 But it's fantastic when you're in. 0:04:01.881 --> 0:04:03.601 But it's fantastic once you're in there. 0:04:03.841 --> 0:04:06.521 Well, I didn't realize that the really good surgeons. I've 0:04:06.601 --> 0:04:08.241 learnt this probably in the last few years, but the 0:04:08.321 --> 0:04:10.921 really good surgeons have a public They work in public. 0:04:10.961 --> 0:04:12.641 It was to be the public, you have to be 0:04:12.761 --> 0:04:15.641 the best. And so if you're looking for a private surgeon, 0:04:15.681 --> 0:04:18.121 look for one who's also in the public system. And 0:04:19.121 --> 0:04:22.121 you're you're away. But it is Q jumping. Yes, you're right, 0:04:22.161 --> 0:04:25.001 but if you've got a dodgy knee, then you know. 0:04:24.921 --> 0:04:27.161 Then you want it done. Yeah yep. 0:04:27.481 --> 0:04:30.361 Hey, Actually you have distract me with that talk about 0:04:30.361 --> 0:04:32.321 health insurance because we're going to talk about small businesses 0:04:32.321 --> 0:04:34.041 and we will do it. But I just wanted to ask, 0:04:34.761 --> 0:04:39.241 when you are paying for it yourself, do you have 0:04:39.321 --> 0:04:41.401 do you try and haggle? You know? It's like when 0:04:41.401 --> 0:04:43.801 they say you've got to go into this private hospital 0:04:43.881 --> 0:04:45.401 and they say it's going to be so much a night, 0:04:45.441 --> 0:04:47.281 and you're like, oh, come on, give me a break. 0:04:48.241 --> 0:04:50.881 I'll give you such and such. I don't. 0:04:51.041 --> 0:04:54.281 I don't think there's any haggle room in there whatever. 0:04:55.641 --> 0:04:59.521 I'd love to say, yeah, wouldn't. I got fifteen percent off, 0:04:59.561 --> 0:05:03.601 But they just presented me with the price that here's 0:05:03.641 --> 0:05:07.401 the surgeons for the this fee, here's the hospital fee, 0:05:07.681 --> 0:05:09.041 here's the theater fee. 0:05:09.681 --> 0:05:10.041 That's it. 0:05:11.161 --> 0:05:13.201 They never said take it. They never said take it 0:05:13.281 --> 0:05:13.681 or leave it? 0:05:13.801 --> 0:05:17.561 But was it did? Do you look at it and go, yeah. 0:05:17.521 --> 0:05:19.561 It's well they warned me it was, but it's a 0:05:19.561 --> 0:05:22.801 fair bit of money, you know. One well they were 0:05:22.801 --> 0:05:26.281 both about fourteen thousand dollars each, so you know I 0:05:26.321 --> 0:05:27.801 took a thousand dollars. 0:05:28.161 --> 0:05:29.481 That sounds like a hip and a knee. 0:05:30.761 --> 0:05:32.521 No, it wasn't either of them. 0:05:32.681 --> 0:05:35.601 Okay, no, no, no's going on. Don't don't don't tell 0:05:35.681 --> 0:05:37.121 us we do. I'm not going to ask. I'm not 0:05:37.161 --> 0:05:38.961 going to you know, we're not going to push it 0:05:39.001 --> 0:05:41.761 any further. Hey, I wanted to have a chat about 0:05:41.961 --> 0:05:46.681 suffening about small businesses. And when I say small businesses, 0:05:46.681 --> 0:05:49.201 I mean I don't know how we define a small business. 0:05:49.241 --> 0:05:51.601 There is a particular definition, isn't it. In fact for 0:05:51.681 --> 0:05:55.001 some people. If you some small businesses, if you described 0:05:55.001 --> 0:05:56.401 it to the average punter, that they'd be like that 0:05:56.441 --> 0:05:59.401 sounds like a pretty big deal to me. And there 0:05:59.441 --> 0:06:01.841 have been a lot of headlines around recently about the 0:06:01.921 --> 0:06:05.961 number of businesses that are folding. We've seen the very 0:06:06.001 --> 0:06:07.961 public ones, of course, when people just notice that their 0:06:08.001 --> 0:06:11.601 favorite restaurants no longer there. We've seen some fairly well 0:06:11.641 --> 0:06:16.361 known establishments that have suddenly disappeared. But of course there 0:06:16.361 --> 0:06:19.401 will be people who set up small businesses at times 0:06:19.441 --> 0:06:21.801 like this, because if you've got a good idea, then 0:06:21.881 --> 0:06:25.081 you don't want to wait around. Have you Are there 0:06:25.201 --> 0:06:30.001 some basics when it comes to small businesses on what 0:06:30.041 --> 0:06:33.921 you can absolutely get right and what you can absolutely 0:06:34.121 --> 0:06:38.001 get wrong. And sometimes I don't know if it's just 0:06:38.081 --> 0:06:40.521 a question of luck either, because I've spoken to small 0:06:40.601 --> 0:06:43.481 people who just about every small business person I've ever 0:06:43.521 --> 0:06:46.841 spoken to will say, in fact, I've even done a 0:06:46.841 --> 0:06:48.881 couple of things myself where I've looked back and gone, well, 0:06:48.921 --> 0:06:52.361 thank goodness X didn't happen because I wouldn't have been 0:06:52.401 --> 0:06:56.001 ready for it. And a lot of them will say, oh, 0:06:56.041 --> 0:06:59.241 my goodness, if I'd known, if I had known how 0:06:59.241 --> 0:07:01.481 hard it was, I never would have even done it, 0:07:01.961 --> 0:07:04.761 And yet here I am a success. So can we 0:07:04.841 --> 0:07:07.361 just still that into some basic dos and don'ts for 0:07:07.401 --> 0:07:09.801 small business big Core Martin. 0:07:09.561 --> 0:07:12.481 Yeah, yeah, it is actually, and you're right about the 0:07:12.521 --> 0:07:16.041 definition of a small business. There are definitions. I think 0:07:16.041 --> 0:07:19.921 in New Zealand it's under maybe fifty staff something something 0:07:20.001 --> 0:07:20.481 like that. 0:07:20.961 --> 0:07:23.441 If you have forty staff, that's massive. 0:07:24.081 --> 0:07:26.041 But I may I may have that wrong. It might 0:07:26.041 --> 0:07:28.761 be twenty, but it's something like that, whereas in the 0:07:28.841 --> 0:07:33.041 US it's it's five hundred and so forth. But you know, 0:07:33.201 --> 0:07:36.361 a lot of them to a pretty marginal sort of operations, 0:07:37.321 --> 0:07:40.041 and a lot of them, I would argue, aren't really 0:07:40.121 --> 0:07:44.681 businesses at all, paid directly that it was paid hobbies. Yeah, 0:07:44.721 --> 0:07:47.481 and that's one of the don'ts. You know, it's not 0:07:47.481 --> 0:07:49.961 not necessarily a thing that you've got to love. But 0:07:50.041 --> 0:07:53.561 it's largely self employment, you know. So if you imagine 0:07:53.801 --> 0:07:57.401 a trade or myself I was self employed, I wasn't. 0:07:57.401 --> 0:08:01.081 Really I didn't have a business. You know, I could 0:08:01.081 --> 0:08:02.681 have had a business, and I could have built up 0:08:02.681 --> 0:08:08.001 a financial advisory practice with fifty staff and so on, 0:08:08.281 --> 0:08:11.921 but I quite deliberately and consciously decided not to because 0:08:11.921 --> 0:08:15.721 I want a better lifestyle than that. I'd argue a 0:08:15.761 --> 0:08:19.161 lot of a lot of small business owners don't have 0:08:19.281 --> 0:08:22.321 great lifestyle. That is, you know, they not only have 0:08:22.481 --> 0:08:25.841 to carry on with their trades, but they've also got 0:08:25.841 --> 0:08:27.881 a market that they've got to give quotes, they've got 0:08:27.881 --> 0:08:30.161 to do the books, they've got to do all those 0:08:30.201 --> 0:08:34.121 other other aspects, and they actually find they have very 0:08:34.161 --> 0:08:36.641 little life at all. I think the number one bit 0:08:36.641 --> 0:08:39.601 of advice I would give to people is to start 0:08:39.681 --> 0:08:43.161 with the end in mind, so to start thinking about 0:08:43.841 --> 0:08:47.281 how is this going to play out? And ideally you 0:08:47.361 --> 0:08:51.161 want to be able to sell your business for preferably 0:08:51.281 --> 0:08:54.321 serious money. So you build something, you take all the risks, 0:08:54.401 --> 0:08:57.401 you live, eat and breathe your small but business and 0:08:57.481 --> 0:09:01.761 most small business people do. You want a really good 0:09:01.801 --> 0:09:05.361 payoff at it, so you've got to think about who's 0:09:05.401 --> 0:09:08.281 going to buy this business, and what are these people 0:09:08.321 --> 0:09:11.361 who are going to buy the business, what are they 0:09:11.361 --> 0:09:13.561 going to be looking for? And the answer to that, 0:09:13.641 --> 0:09:18.121 in almost all cases is that they will seamlessly keep 0:09:18.161 --> 0:09:22.041 the profit going. That is, from day one when you're 0:09:22.081 --> 0:09:25.681 the owner. Today too, when the other person is the owner, 0:09:26.001 --> 0:09:29.601 the profits keep flowing. And that means that you don't 0:09:29.601 --> 0:09:31.681 have your name on the door. You're not you know, 0:09:31.721 --> 0:09:34.841 the business is not dependent on you. You don't have 0:09:34.921 --> 0:09:38.801 your name online, so that you're the number one person 0:09:39.001 --> 0:09:42.441 in whatever the field is. The Other thing I'd say 0:09:42.521 --> 0:09:46.161 is that hospo is something that a lot of people 0:09:46.201 --> 0:09:50.001 go into. Somebody described that about thirty years to me, 0:09:50.041 --> 0:09:52.641 they have this little vision of themselves standing around the 0:09:52.721 --> 0:09:56.001 bar at lunch time with a five ounce glass of beer. 0:09:56.041 --> 0:09:58.641 This is when we had five hour glasses of beer. 0:09:59.401 --> 0:10:02.161 And they see themselves as being mine host and that 0:10:02.241 --> 0:10:07.841 sort of thing. Most hospo is bloody hard work actually, and. 0:10:10.081 --> 0:10:11.721 That you've got all the stuff and that your mind 0:10:11.761 --> 0:10:13.681 host and you're going around the table saying hi, and 0:10:13.681 --> 0:10:17.241 everyone's going, hey, hey, are you going Martin, And I'm loving, loving, 0:10:17.321 --> 0:10:20.081 loving your chef's work today, and as opposed to. 0:10:21.401 --> 0:10:25.961 Yeah there's a there's a snail in my cello, so 0:10:25.961 --> 0:10:29.881 so and so hasn't turned up again. Very difficult businesses 0:10:29.961 --> 0:10:32.961 to run, and I know they're quite high profile and 0:10:33.281 --> 0:10:36.441 you really do notice when your local cafe closes. But 0:10:37.681 --> 0:10:40.081 I suspect I've never seen numbers on it, but I 0:10:40.121 --> 0:10:47.601 suspect that more hospital hospitality businesses cease to be help 0:10:47.681 --> 0:10:52.121 we polite, and then most other business SIPs. 0:10:52.961 --> 0:10:57.361 Yeah, it's interesting that you you would an unsurprising I 0:10:57.361 --> 0:10:59.001 guess that you'd say you have a think about the 0:10:59.081 --> 0:11:01.201 endgame where do you want to end up? Because there'd 0:11:01.201 --> 0:11:04.281 be many people who end up. Maybe I should also 0:11:04.281 --> 0:11:07.921 include myself employed, but that's usually just only responsible to yourself. 0:11:07.921 --> 0:11:09.881 But let's say small business that a lot of people's 0:11:09.881 --> 0:11:13.801 motivation would simply start from I want to be my 0:11:13.881 --> 0:11:17.161 own boss and nothing more. That would be very common, 0:11:17.201 --> 0:11:18.121 I managed, wouldn't it. 0:11:18.601 --> 0:11:23.281 Yeah, yeah, it's very common, And yes you might be 0:11:23.361 --> 0:11:27.241 your own boss. But the staff not turning up are also, 0:11:27.401 --> 0:11:29.841 in a funny sort of way, you're your boss as well. 0:11:30.481 --> 0:11:35.161 They certainly motivate you to do things. It's it's a 0:11:35.321 --> 0:11:38.001 tough road to hoe. I love you know. I mean, 0:11:39.241 --> 0:11:41.841 there are used to be lots of figures around about 0:11:42.081 --> 0:11:45.681 seventy percent small businesses failing within the first five years. 0:11:45.721 --> 0:11:47.841 And I don't know whether that right or not. 0:11:48.041 --> 0:11:50.721 There are those spectacular figures though there that there's so 0:11:50.761 --> 0:11:52.321 many do fail, aren't they I don't know what the 0:11:52.361 --> 0:11:54.281 stats are either. I could probably look up a meme 0:11:54.401 --> 0:11:55.201 somewhere there'll be. 0:11:56.161 --> 0:11:59.121 I'm not sure I trust them all that much. I 0:11:59.161 --> 0:12:01.801 wouldn't know where to where where they come from. But 0:12:02.361 --> 0:12:05.281 it's for a lot of people. It is very, very 0:12:05.321 --> 0:12:08.281 hard work. It's sixty hours a week, it's seventy hours 0:12:08.281 --> 0:12:11.601 a week. Being your own boss often comes at a price. 0:12:12.041 --> 0:12:16.441 And the other thing tim is there if you go 0:12:16.481 --> 0:12:19.201 into business and you put capital into that business, whether 0:12:19.281 --> 0:12:21.521 whether it's a relatively small amount because you know it's 0:12:21.521 --> 0:12:23.481 for tools and that sort of thing, or whether it's 0:12:23.481 --> 0:12:25.921 a big amount and you take on a lease for 0:12:26.001 --> 0:12:29.721 the hospitality business and so forth, you need to get 0:12:29.721 --> 0:12:35.601 a return on both your time and your capital. Yeah, 0:12:35.641 --> 0:12:38.361 and a lot a lot of small businesses don't get 0:12:38.401 --> 0:12:43.121 a return on either. Actually, they're not often terribly profitable. 0:12:44.001 --> 0:12:45.921 Well, that's the other thing. If you speak to small 0:12:45.961 --> 0:12:48.921 business owners, they might tell you. And that's what often 0:12:48.961 --> 0:12:52.201 comes up when they're when the government's sticking another responsibility 0:12:52.201 --> 0:12:55.321 on employers, and how employers will say, well, listen, everyone 0:12:55.321 --> 0:12:57.681 thinks I'm living on the pig's back, but I haven't 0:12:57.681 --> 0:13:00.441 paid myself a wage for eighteen months. I think we 0:13:00.561 --> 0:13:02.081 heard a lot of that obviously through COVID. 0:13:02.481 --> 0:13:07.401 Yeah, yeah, I've been pretty negative to them. But the 0:13:08.241 --> 0:13:12.321 other side of it, you know, there are there are 0:13:12.481 --> 0:13:16.201 joyous examples of people A making a lot of money 0:13:16.241 --> 0:13:18.241 and b having a very very good lifestyle. 0:13:18.601 --> 0:13:23.761 So what, okay, is there a simple reason why why 0:13:23.841 --> 0:13:27.201 so many fail? And and what's the difference between the 0:13:27.201 --> 0:13:29.161 ones that become a roaring success? Is it just that 0:13:29.201 --> 0:13:30.361 they've had a great idea. 0:13:31.521 --> 0:13:33.681 I think there's a lot about that. I think that, 0:13:34.081 --> 0:13:36.721 you know, it's it's what they go into, it's how 0:13:36.761 --> 0:13:39.641 they manage it, it's how they manage to staff it. 0:13:39.641 --> 0:13:42.521 It's how they manage the staff that they have, it's 0:13:42.521 --> 0:13:45.761 how they market it. You know, I look around the 0:13:45.761 --> 0:13:48.241 place and I do see a lot of very successful 0:13:48.961 --> 0:13:51.961 small small businesses. And then of course you know Apple, 0:13:52.241 --> 0:13:55.401 the computer people, you know, Steve Jobs, they started as 0:13:55.441 --> 0:13:59.081 a micro business as the Juti pack up quite now. 0:13:59.521 --> 0:14:05.441 Garret trade me started in Sam Walken's garage. So all 0:14:05.481 --> 0:14:09.641 these people have an idea and we only know it's 0:14:09.681 --> 0:14:12.241 a good idea with the passing of time. 0:14:12.841 --> 0:14:15.241 One of them is one of the mistakes that you 0:14:15.361 --> 0:14:20.481 might make in a small business is if you've started 0:14:20.521 --> 0:14:24.601 it with your own ambition in mind, is a stubbornness 0:14:24.641 --> 0:14:27.561 to share the to share it around. So if if 0:14:27.561 --> 0:14:29.561 you've got an idea for a business, you might not, 0:14:30.281 --> 0:14:32.561 for instance, have all the money or the capital you need, 0:14:32.601 --> 0:14:34.721 but then it's like, my idea, why should I give 0:14:34.761 --> 0:14:36.161 it to someone who's simply going to stump up with 0:14:36.201 --> 0:14:37.561 a bit of money to make it a bit easier 0:14:37.561 --> 0:14:40.321 for me? Is that one of the mistakes small businesses 0:14:40.321 --> 0:14:42.601 make that they go in a bit undercooked on the 0:14:42.601 --> 0:14:46.281 financial side, but simply because they're unwilling to share in 0:14:46.401 --> 0:14:48.081 their genius. 0:14:48.561 --> 0:14:51.681 Yes, of course, taking on a partner and a business 0:14:51.801 --> 0:14:56.121 is like a second marriage to triumph of hope over experience. 0:14:56.161 --> 0:14:59.361 So it's you know, that doesn't always work out. But 0:14:59.481 --> 0:15:03.521 I always say to people that I think that you're 0:15:03.601 --> 0:15:07.321 better to have fifty percent or sixty percent of a 0:15:07.361 --> 0:15:11.161 thriving large business than one hundred percent of something which 0:15:11.201 --> 0:15:15.521 is struggling and a lack of capital. You know, after 0:15:15.561 --> 0:15:18.521 people have more into the house to put money in 0:15:18.641 --> 0:15:22.921 and managed to beg borrow of steel, bits of other 0:15:22.961 --> 0:15:26.201 other money from finance companies and things like that. After that, 0:15:26.321 --> 0:15:28.321 the capital drives up. And where do you get the 0:15:28.361 --> 0:15:32.801 expansion from. I think you've got to bring staff and 0:15:32.881 --> 0:15:35.681 to turn a small business into a medium size. To 0:15:35.721 --> 0:15:38.641 turn a medium size into a large one, you really 0:15:38.681 --> 0:15:41.681 do need capital, and that means bringing other people on. 0:15:42.601 --> 0:15:44.321 If somebody was to I mean, I don't know how 0:15:44.361 --> 0:15:47.161 much how much time you would spend advising people in 0:15:47.201 --> 0:15:49.881 small business and things, because that's a specific area of expertise, 0:15:49.961 --> 0:15:53.361 isn't it. But what would if you had a family member, 0:15:53.361 --> 0:15:55.281 for instance, he said, look, I've got a great idea. 0:15:55.321 --> 0:15:56.441 This is what I want to do. I want to 0:15:56.561 --> 0:15:59.561 enter into business. Would there be a small checklist you'd 0:15:59.601 --> 0:16:03.281 run through them, or a list of you know, absolute 0:16:03.401 --> 0:16:07.041 musts before they even sort of take step one? Well 0:16:07.081 --> 0:16:09.161 step one to be talking to you, I guess. 0:16:09.601 --> 0:16:13.921 Not or somebody somebody like me and I do see 0:16:14.361 --> 0:16:16.321 I have seen over the years an awful lot of 0:16:16.881 --> 0:16:20.081 small business owners. No, I wouldn't really have a checklist. 0:16:20.321 --> 0:16:23.721 I think you'd have to work through. They all tend 0:16:23.721 --> 0:16:28.481 to be quite different. But I would keep coming back 0:16:28.521 --> 0:16:30.881 to that. Start with the end in mind. Who's going 0:16:30.921 --> 0:16:32.721 to buy your business, what are they going to look like, 0:16:32.921 --> 0:16:36.241 what are are they going to look for? And what 0:16:36.281 --> 0:16:38.361 are you going to build where you can sell your 0:16:38.361 --> 0:16:41.081 business for two million dollars and fifteen years time. 0:16:41.401 --> 0:16:42.761 Oh that sounds nice, doesn't it? 0:16:44.321 --> 0:16:44.521 Look? 0:16:44.561 --> 0:16:46.921 We'd like to hear from you as well, because it's 0:16:46.961 --> 0:16:48.681 been well, it's just from my own point of view've 0:16:48.681 --> 0:16:51.561 always been curious about setting out small businesses and what 0:16:51.641 --> 0:16:53.281 it takes because I think a lot of the time 0:16:53.801 --> 0:16:57.801 when it comes to discussions around politics and things, people 0:16:58.281 --> 0:17:01.081 like to have a crack at business owners without having 0:17:01.121 --> 0:17:05.401 an inkling on it, absolutely on how incredibly difficult challenging 0:17:05.481 --> 0:17:07.081 it is. So if you're one of those small business 0:17:07.081 --> 0:17:09.481 owners that has either made a great fist of your 0:17:09.481 --> 0:17:12.921 business and you're doing very well, where did you go right? 0:17:13.361 --> 0:17:16.081 But also if you feel like sharing experience on something 0:17:16.881 --> 0:17:19.441 where you went wrong, because many successful business owners will 0:17:19.481 --> 0:17:22.561 probably say, look, you know, I might be successful now, 0:17:22.561 --> 0:17:24.801 but about a few failings. It give us a court 0:17:24.801 --> 0:17:27.321 we'd love to hear your experience with Martin Hawes. This 0:17:27.521 --> 0:17:29.561 is smart money and news talk, said b. It's twenty 0:17:29.601 --> 0:17:31.081 four the number is oh, eight hundred and eighty ten 0:17:31.121 --> 0:17:33.081 eighty of course in text on nine two nine two. 0:17:33.441 --> 0:17:38.361 But we'd love love your input. It's twenty four past five. Yes, 0:17:38.481 --> 0:17:41.081 and we're with Martin Hawes. This is smart money talking 0:17:41.121 --> 0:17:43.641 about the dos and don'ts of setting up a small business, 0:17:43.641 --> 0:17:46.561 but of a bandwidthm with Martin. But joining us is 0:17:47.001 --> 0:17:51.721 ivor good day. A bit of a delay on the 0:17:51.761 --> 0:17:52.321 line there either. 0:17:52.481 --> 0:17:56.161 Hello, Yeah, I'll just put you. I'll just take your 0:17:56.321 --> 0:18:07.441 speaker mm hmm, okay, right right, you're on phone. Good Yeah, yeah, 0:18:07.481 --> 0:18:12.081 So you're just you're just mentioning that if you started 0:18:12.121 --> 0:18:15.601 a small business and you're not very successful, you'd like 0:18:15.681 --> 0:18:16.321 to hear from us. 0:18:16.441 --> 0:18:17.281 Yeah, sure, is that you? 0:18:20.041 --> 0:18:28.121 Yes, yes, yes, I started a lolly importing company with 0:18:28.241 --> 0:18:31.521 about five thousand dollars from a second man vati bike 0:18:31.641 --> 0:18:37.241 in nineteen eighty eight and sold it to my brother, 0:18:37.481 --> 0:18:40.681 he's a couple of years older. Million two thousand and 0:18:40.721 --> 0:18:44.281 five for you know that part of the deal. It 0:18:44.361 --> 0:18:45.681 had a million dollars in the bank. 0:18:46.481 --> 0:18:49.481 Oh really, and where do you consider went right? 0:18:49.681 --> 0:19:02.481 Yeah, well, hiring staff, hiring staff, yeah, yeah, yeah, lots 0:19:02.561 --> 0:19:03.481 and lots of stuff. 0:19:04.601 --> 0:19:06.721 Yeah, what did you have to hire a lot because 0:19:06.721 --> 0:19:08.761 you also had to fire a lot? What did you 0:19:08.801 --> 0:19:10.761 distill your if you had a couple. 0:19:10.521 --> 0:19:18.081 Of I think they only fired two people. Yeah, I 0:19:18.121 --> 0:19:21.521 had about I had about twenty workers at one stage, 0:19:21.601 --> 0:19:24.921 and then talking them on a fifty fifty partner and 0:19:27.041 --> 0:19:33.081 he sort of turned it back to ten, but not 0:19:33.201 --> 0:19:35.401 firing them, just that just saying I don't need to 0:19:35.841 --> 0:19:39.481 and afford it, but then actually fired not two people. 0:19:39.841 --> 0:19:43.081 Yeah. Hey, there's a bit of a delay on the 0:19:43.361 --> 0:19:46.281 line either. Unfortunately, I don't think we can because we're 0:19:46.321 --> 0:19:48.241 about five seconds behind each other. So it's going to 0:19:48.241 --> 0:19:50.801 be a bit of a different bit of a difficult conversation, 0:19:50.841 --> 0:19:52.921 which is a shame. But I guess, you know, hiring 0:19:52.961 --> 0:19:55.241 the right stuff, as you say, Martin, that's the bleeding obvious, 0:19:55.281 --> 0:19:57.161 isn't it. You know, if you hire bad stuff, you're. 0:19:57.001 --> 0:20:00.961 Screwed, and it's one of the hardest things as well, 0:20:01.121 --> 0:20:05.681 you know, and management by yelling doesn't work anymore. Yeah, 0:20:05.721 --> 0:20:10.121 you probably won't. It was certainly a thing in the past. 0:20:11.681 --> 0:20:15.721 I think there's too probably fundamental barriers for a lot 0:20:15.761 --> 0:20:19.041 of small businesses want to be staff. The other would 0:20:19.081 --> 0:20:24.161 be marketing, marketing, marketing slash sales. I guess that people 0:20:24.161 --> 0:20:26.681 often have an expertise, and it may be an expertise 0:20:26.721 --> 0:20:29.561 and plumbing or or you know, some sort of trade 0:20:29.641 --> 0:20:33.801 or something like that. What they don't necessarily have an 0:20:33.881 --> 0:20:38.161 expertise and it's hard to buy in is marketing slash 0:20:38.201 --> 0:20:39.601 sales and staff. 0:20:40.201 --> 0:20:42.921 Yeah. Actually, did you see there was There was a 0:20:43.081 --> 0:20:47.001 case that not particularly any particular reason, but was there's 0:20:47.001 --> 0:20:49.201 a report in the Herald about a company in Dunedin 0:20:49.281 --> 0:20:51.841 that's gone well. They're no longer a small business, they're 0:20:51.881 --> 0:20:54.921 quite big. Who started these guys decided they could design 0:20:54.961 --> 0:20:57.761 their own coffee roaster and they were One of them 0:20:57.881 --> 0:21:01.121 was software sort of expert. I can't remember the details. 0:21:01.201 --> 0:21:05.641 But now that they've gone global, they've made manufacturing thousands 0:21:05.641 --> 0:21:08.401 of coffee machines and selling them around the world. 0:21:08.681 --> 0:21:12.441 I did see something like that. It never ceases to 0:21:12.481 --> 0:21:17.001 amaze me. The little niches like you know, somebody important lollies, 0:21:17.201 --> 0:21:19.921 no doubt, bagging them up into different bags and putting 0:21:19.921 --> 0:21:22.841 a different label on them or whatever, and being able 0:21:22.881 --> 0:21:26.161 to make good money out of that. Similarly, with coffee roasting, 0:21:26.201 --> 0:21:28.281