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Speaker 1: It's coming up twenty away.

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Speaker 2: From six The Huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty,

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Speaker 2: the global leader in luxury real estate.

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Speaker 1: On the Huddle of Us.

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Speaker 3: This evening, we have Liam here, political commentator and lawyer,

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Speaker 3: and Jack Tame, host of Q and A and Saturday

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Speaker 3: Mornings on z B.

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Speaker 4: High Lads, good evening, Liam.

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Speaker 1: You been following this race in New York.

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Speaker 5: Only tangentially, of course, I mean we all, you know,

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Speaker 5: like to watch American politics. It's a bit removed, but yeah,

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Speaker 5: like I've probably a little bit less reading, a little

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Speaker 5: bit less into a New York voting for the Democrat candidate.

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Speaker 5: Then you're a journal as well.

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Speaker 1: Do you not.

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Speaker 3: See those huge disappointment coming for his voters given what

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Speaker 3: Catherine just said? But then potentially maybe that doesn't matter

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Speaker 3: because maybe like Trump, he it's what he represents rather

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Speaker 3: than what he delivers.

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Speaker 5: This. Yeah, I think that's right. You know, this is

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Speaker 5: the era of politics we have moved into. Politics is

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Speaker 5: more like professional wrestling. Then there's a statesmanship, you know,

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Speaker 5: like we all know that it's fake. It's performative.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, what would you agree with?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's also like just a repudiation of status quo.

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Speaker 4: A like, it's actually in the same way that there

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Speaker 4: was there were kind of a lot of things between

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Speaker 4: Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump that were comparable. I think

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Speaker 4: with Mandani and Donald Trump, there are too just a

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Speaker 4: lot of his supporters like, you know what, the system

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Speaker 4: is screwing me. I'm sick of this. I'm going to

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Speaker 4: vote for a candidate who's going to blow up the system.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, fair point.

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Speaker 3: Like Donald Trump is the is the anti system guy,

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Speaker 3: and man Damie is the anti Donald Trump guy, and

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Speaker 3: it just keeps going around around. Liam doesn't sound to

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Speaker 3: you like the government is working on something, but it's

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Speaker 3: not a ban on rough sleepers, and it's more like

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Speaker 3: a ban on their bad behavior.

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Speaker 5: Yeah. Well, I mean you can't actually ban people for

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Speaker 5: being homeless and they don't have a home to go to, right,

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Speaker 5: and any shouldn't either, Right. It's you shouldn't penalize people

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Speaker 5: for being poor. But you can always penalize people, or

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Speaker 5: you can always have expectations for everyone about what they

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Speaker 5: actually do. And and you know, it's a hard one

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Speaker 5: for me, Like I try to think, you know, what,

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Speaker 5: what does what does Christian compassion look like? In this

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Speaker 5: sort of scenario. But at the same time, compassion doesn't mean,

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Speaker 5: you know, putting up with the civic squalor that's not

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Speaker 5: compassionate to anybody. It makes everything more difficult, including for

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Speaker 5: those who who are sleeping RUSS through the unavoidable need.

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Speaker 5: What it would sucking tho is that you know, if

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Speaker 5: you if you are going to go down this route

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Speaker 5: of punishing that behavior, you actually do need an outlet

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Speaker 5: to move people along to that it's not prison. And

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Speaker 5: you know, I think the fact that we have to

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Speaker 5: do this is just this huge validation of the idea

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Speaker 5: that actually the institutionalization of mental health and addiction it's

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Speaker 5: just a complete failure, you know, And so you need

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Speaker 5: to have those alternatives. But those alternatives might not be

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Speaker 5: as nice as we like.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, it ultimately does end up no matter

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Speaker 3: whether you call it jack, a ban on homelessness or

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Speaker 3: a band on their behavior, it ends up with the

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Speaker 3: same point, which is that you move them along.

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Speaker 1: And where do you move them along?

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Speaker 4: Too? Yeah? Yeah, And that's a tricky question. I mean,

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Speaker 4: if I was a business owner and the CBD and

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Speaker 4: you saw all this antisocial behavior outside your door, you

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Speaker 4: would just be so frustrated by it. Would you like,

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Speaker 4: as compassionate as you tried to be, it would drive

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Speaker 4: you absolutely nuts. But you know, the police officers I

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Speaker 4: know certainly don't want to be spending their time going

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Speaker 4: and moving rough sleeps off the street. And you know,

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Speaker 4: as far as I'm concerned, the threat of punishment probably

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Speaker 4: isn't going to be a big motivating factor. If you're

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Speaker 4: the kind of person who is sadly living your life

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Speaker 4: like that, the threat of getting a conviction or a

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Speaker 4: couple of nights in the cells or something like that

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Speaker 4: probably isn't going to move you along. I reckon maybe

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Speaker 4: there's some alternative vision whereby if we are able to

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Speaker 4: better support, like quite big intervention services to go and

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Speaker 4: support these people are moving away from the CBD, then

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Speaker 4: that might be the best option as opposed to just

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Speaker 4: a slap on the risk.

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Speaker 3: Now here's a question though, Okay, so Liam, if what

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Speaker 3: we're going to do is crack down on their anti

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Speaker 3: social behavior and their drug taking and stuff, why aren't

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Speaker 3: we doing that already?

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Speaker 5: Because it's not the current fashion, it's not the current

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Speaker 5: mode of looking at things. I mean, you know, not

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Speaker 5: to be too contentious, but I really I don't. I

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Speaker 5: don't agree with my good friend Jack here about the

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Speaker 5: idea that actually what's needed is more intensive welfare state,

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Speaker 5: because I think that actually people can can, given their

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Speaker 5: behavior and the standards that people live in, the environment

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Speaker 5: that people live in will actually you know, influence what

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Speaker 5: they perceived to be acceptable behavior or not, and it

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Speaker 5: reaches the point where you have the amount of squalor

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Speaker 5: and the lack of safety that sets the default, right,

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Speaker 5: it sets the expected standard of behavior so low that

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Speaker 5: it sort of feeds on itself and it creates itself.

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Speaker 5: So you know, like I said, I do think that actually,

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Speaker 5: you know, people will for self correct to an extent,

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Speaker 5: and for those who genuinely can't, it's not necessarily you know,

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Speaker 5: an unproven intervention in their lives to live their lives

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Speaker 5: for them. But it might be a return to more

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Speaker 5: psychiatric care and more sort of SODI or care for

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Speaker 5: people who genuinely look at for themselves, rather than just

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Speaker 5: leaving them freeze and endorse.

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Speaker 1: The Do you want to say anything here, No.

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Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, I just think that if you're I

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Speaker 4: just think it's not a motivator. I just think that's saying, hey,

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Speaker 4: we're going to punish you for being outside isn't motivator.

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Speaker 4: And if you look at something like the Housing First program,

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Speaker 4: which basically says the number one thing you can do

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Speaker 4: to the kind of person who is living on the

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Speaker 4: streets or taking drugs on the streets is actually give

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Speaker 4: them a dependable roof over their head every night so

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Speaker 4: they know they don't have to do that, they know

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Speaker 4: they have a safe place to go to. That is

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Speaker 4: basically the most effective way you can try and into

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Speaker 4: vene and set them on a bit of path in life.

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Speaker 4: And so I think something like that is a bit option.

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Speaker 1: All Right, We'll take a break, come back shortly the.

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Speaker 2: Huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty. Find your one

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Speaker 2: of a kind.

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Speaker 3: Write you back with a huddle, Jack, tam Liam Here Jack,

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Speaker 3: what did you make of the police boss writing this

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Speaker 3: opinion in Peace on Stuff?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, First of all, good call not to prosecute them

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Speaker 4: in any way. I didn't think it was a great

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Speaker 4: call to publish that audio. I think there were alternative

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Speaker 4: options available, even just publishing a transcript with a better option.

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Speaker 4: That being said, I do have some sympathy for journos

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Speaker 4: who feel like there is a possibility that actually not

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Speaker 4: insufficient scrutiny is going to be placed on the police

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Speaker 4: about their decision making throughout the whole case. So I've

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Speaker 4: got some sympathy there. And finally, I'd say that if

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Speaker 4: you're cracking down on the traditional mainstream media for their

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Speaker 4: reporting of this, where's the crackdown on the social media platforms?

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Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, these are the companies acting with real

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Speaker 4: impunity where all of this privileged information goes up online,

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Speaker 4: all of this misinformation. So where's the crackdown on that?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Liam, it's strong.

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Speaker 3: It feels to me like Richard Chambers is doing is

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Speaker 3: creating the streisand effects. We're the very thing that he

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Speaker 3: doesn't want us to listen to.

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Speaker 1: And talk about.

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Speaker 3: He's just directed us to again when he could have just.

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Speaker 1: Let it go.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I really questioned that prude of commenting on it.

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Speaker 5: You know, I get the fact that you know, you

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Speaker 5: might want to make clear that you know you haven't

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Speaker 5: done anything, but that's not because you are indifferent to

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Speaker 5: the law and you've made a reason decision not to

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Speaker 5: practice it in this case while getting a warning out there.

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Speaker 5: But you know the fact is that when you do

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Speaker 5: anything like this, it drifts, it drifts into theater, right,

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Speaker 5: you know, it's it's it's keeping it in the news,

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Speaker 5: it's and and it's drawing attention to the fact that actually,

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Speaker 5: you know, the police have a discretion to to exercise. Yes,

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Speaker 5: but they're doing it inconsistently, right or they set there

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Speaker 5: creating precedence and when they might do it again, you're

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Speaker 5: actually better off just if you're not going to do

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Speaker 5: it to say nothing, or to say as little as possible,

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Speaker 5: rather than to tip your hand to it. Because I've

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Speaker 5: really I've taken away a lot of the effectness of

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Speaker 5: the law. I think.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's fair, all right, now, Jack, do

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Speaker 3: you think that if do you think that if Nick

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Speaker 3: Kurios beat Sablenka that it is damaging to women's sport

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Speaker 3: and demeaning.

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Speaker 4: No, No, I think it's ludicrous. I love a bit

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Speaker 4: of a battle of the sexes from time to time,

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Speaker 4: like I love when the when the Silver Ferns played

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Speaker 4: the men's team, and I think back in the day,

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Speaker 4: like Susan Devoy plays her husband it was for a

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Speaker 4: bit of fun. It's great.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't have a problem with that. Liam.

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Speaker 3: I live in the in the real world where Nick Kurios,

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Speaker 3: even though he's slabby and unfit, could probably beat her.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean it's a it's a reality check a

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Speaker 5: little bit. I mean, you know, and I don't mean

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Speaker 5: that in a in an overly negative way. And I

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Speaker 5: remember when I was a kid, I've watching tennis and

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Speaker 5: the ninety eight cars and Brash played the Williams sisters

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Speaker 5: and that, you know, and he was two huge and

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Speaker 5: eighths in the world and he beat them six one

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Speaker 5: six two, smoking while he was playing. And the lesson,

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Speaker 5: The lesson wasn't the Williams sisters weren't amazing. They were

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Speaker 5: The lesson is just a different game, right, It's a

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Speaker 5: women's tennis and men's tennis are different games. And I

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Speaker 5: like watching women's tennis. As I always say to my wife,

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Speaker 5: it's not for the reason you're thinking of. It's because

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Speaker 5: the rallies are longer, and you know, there's more baseline play.

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Speaker 5: It's just it's a different game. And it's not the

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Speaker 5: worst thing of li woul to be reminded of that

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Speaker 5: from time to time, that's fair point.

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Speaker 4: And it's just a bit of fun.

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Speaker 3: Oh can make things too serious, Hey Jack, how do

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Speaker 3: you feel about this idea of the government overruling the

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Speaker 3: council rules in Auckland and adding to Eden Park's concerts.

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Speaker 4: Well, I think if eden Park is going to be

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Speaker 4: the big stadium, then it has to be allowed to

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Speaker 4: have big and medium sized concert as simple as that.

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Speaker 4: I live close enough to eden Park that when they

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Speaker 4: have a big concert I can hear it. I think

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Speaker 4: if I was on night eleven of a fifteen night

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Speaker 4: Metallica extravaganza and they were playing to midnight every night,

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Speaker 4: I'll beginning about Do you know I'm not I'm actually

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Speaker 4: more of a system of a down guy. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 4: but no, I honestly think that's it. If eden Park

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Speaker 4: is going to be the stadium, it has to be

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Speaker 4: allowed to have the concert.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, would you come up for Metallica?

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Speaker 5: Liam, I'm not for Metallica. No, you know that's not me.

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Speaker 5: But can I just say I am very in favor

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Speaker 5: of the move simply because Hannah Clark blocked me on

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Speaker 5: Twitter and like, sorry, any anything to do? Then nothing?

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Speaker 5: I can't you know, I probably might. I probably gave

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Speaker 5: a very reasonable and correct critique of one of her

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Speaker 5: tweets and I got blocked for it. So anything that

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Speaker 5: annoys her, I'm now in favor of you.

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Speaker 3: So, so she's the anti Eden Park and you're the

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Speaker 3: anti Helen.

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Speaker 5: Now, yeah, I think we should be forty major concerts

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Speaker 5: a year now.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm down with that, guys, Thanks very much. Liam here, Jack,

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Speaker 3: tame Hudle. This evening, I'm going to Metallica. Oh I'm

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Speaker 3: not going alone.

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Speaker 1: The girls are going. It's our first.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the girls are going to Metallica. We've just got haven't.

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Speaker 3: We just packed out calendar for the concert club.

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Speaker 2: For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, Listen live to

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