WEBVTT - Sandy Pasley: Teaching values falls on parents as well as schools 0:00:05.761 --> 0:00:09.721 You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks. 0:00:17.041 --> 0:00:29.641 Explanation of the World. 0:00:32.441 --> 0:00:35.601 And welcome back to the Weekend Collective. By the way, 0:00:35.641 --> 0:00:38.321 if you've missed any of the previous hours, always an 0:00:38.321 --> 0:00:41.081 interesting chat with Kelvin Davidson from core Logic on what 0:00:41.121 --> 0:00:43.721 the property market's doing and whether it matters whether you're 0:00:43.721 --> 0:00:45.681 buying a new house or an old one. But if 0:00:45.681 --> 0:00:47.961 you've missed and up, my goodness that the panel today 0:00:48.041 --> 0:00:53.361 with Luke Dallo and Carmacdonald was raucus and quite good fun. 0:00:53.601 --> 0:00:54.801 Actually it was a lot of fun. But if you've 0:00:54.801 --> 0:00:56.321 missed any of the ours and you feel you'd like 0:00:56.361 --> 0:00:58.321 a distraction from you to day, then go and check 0:00:58.361 --> 0:01:01.881 out the podcast. Go to the Weekend Collective on iHeartRadio. 0:01:01.881 --> 0:01:03.921 But now it's time for the Parents Squad, and we've 0:01:03.961 --> 0:01:06.241 got a new guest on the show, which is sort 0:01:06.241 --> 0:01:09.281 of all my fault because she is the former principal 0:01:09.361 --> 0:01:13.161 at Bardine College. She's I wouldn't say she's retired, she's 0:01:13.201 --> 0:01:15.401 the former principal. She's moved on to a few other things. 0:01:15.801 --> 0:01:18.641 And her name is Sandy Pasley and Sandy is with 0:01:18.681 --> 0:01:21.081 me now, Sandy, good afternoon. How are you doing. 0:01:21.721 --> 0:01:23.201 I'm great, Tim, thank you. 0:01:23.481 --> 0:01:25.041 Thanks for coming on board. By the way, we thought 0:01:25.041 --> 0:01:27.721 we'd just ease you in with that song. We always 0:01:27.721 --> 0:01:30.041 have a song choice, and you didn't necessarily have a 0:01:30.121 --> 0:01:31.481 choice of song, but you said I like a bit 0:01:31.521 --> 0:01:34.961 of the Carpenter and who doesn't because and you coincided 0:01:35.001 --> 0:01:37.241 with my producer Tyra, who I think Tyra is a 0:01:37.241 --> 0:01:38.961 big fan of the Carpenters as well. So that's just 0:01:38.961 --> 0:01:41.761 to ease it into it. Hey, Now, the question for 0:01:41.801 --> 0:01:43.361 you out there on one hundred and eighty ten to 0:01:43.361 --> 0:01:49.361 eighty is the question of values and who's responsible for 0:01:49.441 --> 0:01:53.601 teaching your children values? And that sounds like a really 0:01:53.681 --> 0:01:56.441 dumb question, doesn't it, Because you'd instantly say, well, the parents, 0:01:56.441 --> 0:01:59.521 of course, in the family. But who else do you 0:01:59.601 --> 0:02:03.481 trust to instill values into your children? Because you know, 0:02:03.561 --> 0:02:07.001 as the saying goes, it's it takes what is the saying, 0:02:07.081 --> 0:02:10.201 It takes a village. That's the one, thank you, Tira. 0:02:10.721 --> 0:02:13.241 It takes a village. So it's one thing for parents 0:02:13.241 --> 0:02:15.801 to have a role on the values that they want 0:02:16.001 --> 0:02:18.921 their children to grow up with and to take on. 0:02:19.241 --> 0:02:22.521 But of course they're not the only influence in their 0:02:22.601 --> 0:02:26.161 children's lives. Their sports clubs are influencers, the dance schools 0:02:26.161 --> 0:02:32.761 they go to, the and the schools. And so how 0:02:32.841 --> 0:02:36.281 far do you think schools should go when it comes 0:02:36.321 --> 0:02:40.521 to well, what is the school's role in teaching values 0:02:41.081 --> 0:02:42.801 to kids? And that I know that can be a 0:02:42.841 --> 0:02:45.081 triggering question because you might think, well, that school's got 0:02:45.161 --> 0:02:47.121 ideas about X, Y and Z that I don't agree 0:02:47.161 --> 0:02:50.601 with at all. But schools are there to educate our kids, 0:02:50.601 --> 0:02:52.161 and it's not just about teaching them that one on 0:02:52.201 --> 0:02:54.041 one is too and how to read and write and 0:02:54.081 --> 0:02:56.561 all that sort of thing, and the more sophisticated learnings 0:02:56.561 --> 0:02:59.401 that they get to when when they're older. Values are 0:02:59.441 --> 0:03:04.921 a huge part of it. So, Sandy, you're obviously from 0:03:04.921 --> 0:03:07.521 a school barot In College that's a special character school 0:03:07.561 --> 0:03:11.281 in the form of being a Catholic school. How importantly 0:03:12.441 --> 0:03:15.841 did you take the question of values in addition to 0:03:16.801 --> 0:03:19.801 teaching scholarly issues. 0:03:20.641 --> 0:03:26.961 I think it's incredibly important him. I think values are 0:03:27.041 --> 0:03:30.401 what make having strong values or what make a good 0:03:30.481 --> 0:03:34.921 community person. And the role of schools is surely to 0:03:35.201 --> 0:03:41.241 educate a community so that they become really valued members 0:03:41.281 --> 0:03:44.801 of that community and are able to contribute, and that's 0:03:44.841 --> 0:03:48.761 the whole point of governments being involved in schools is 0:03:48.841 --> 0:03:54.001 so that the population is educated and educated in such 0:03:54.041 --> 0:03:56.641 a way that they are all good community members. 0:03:57.481 --> 0:04:01.281 Because values are also subjective, aren't they. So I guess 0:04:01.481 --> 0:04:05.321 it's easier when you're with a school like Barridine there 0:04:05.401 --> 0:04:07.321 is a specific charter and people know when they send 0:04:07.321 --> 0:04:10.161 their children. There's a buy in, isn't there Definitely, Whereas 0:04:10.201 --> 0:04:12.761 I guess if somebody is going to just the college 0:04:12.801 --> 0:04:15.321 that they're in zone or the school they're in zone. 0:04:15.841 --> 0:04:17.881 But there's still a role for a huge role for 0:04:17.921 --> 0:04:20.441 schools to play. It's just like, I guess, how far 0:04:20.521 --> 0:04:22.681 can they go with teaching values? Do you think? 0:04:23.801 --> 0:04:26.761 I think even any school has got an important role 0:04:26.921 --> 0:04:32.841 playing imparting values for instance, social justice, the importance of 0:04:32.841 --> 0:04:37.441 social justice, the importance of equality, and the importance of 0:04:37.961 --> 0:04:42.521 being responsible for others as well as yourself. Those things, 0:04:42.641 --> 0:04:44.841 no matter whether you're at a Catholic school or a 0:04:44.881 --> 0:04:48.241 state school or a private school, all really important. 0:04:48.361 --> 0:04:50.401 I meant to actually sorry, I needed one of the 0:04:50.561 --> 0:04:51.961 audience to get to know you a little bit, so 0:04:52.001 --> 0:04:54.121 I launched into the question there because I was running hot. 0:04:54.481 --> 0:04:57.681 But how long have you been involved in an education 0:04:57.761 --> 0:05:04.641 yourself or roughly? Actually actually no, no, let's just shorten 0:05:04.641 --> 0:05:07.881 that one. You were a principal of Bardeene College for 0:05:07.921 --> 0:05:08.321 how long? 0:05:08.921 --> 0:05:11.401 Thirteen and a half years, and before that, I was 0:05:11.481 --> 0:05:14.961 principal of Saint Mary's College in Pontsmbe for nine and 0:05:14.961 --> 0:05:18.441 a half years, and before that I was deputy principal 0:05:18.521 --> 0:05:20.521 at Birkenhead College on the North Shore. 0:05:21.001 --> 0:05:24.641 Okay, because you and before that you're teaching, you're a teacher. 0:05:24.641 --> 0:05:27.641 Obviously before you come on principal. It's chemistry. You're bad, 0:05:27.801 --> 0:05:28.041 was it? 0:05:28.121 --> 0:05:28.561 That's right? 0:05:28.961 --> 0:05:31.281 Wow? What made you get into chemistry? 0:05:32.241 --> 0:05:34.641 I did a degree in chemistry at a target university, 0:05:34.681 --> 0:05:37.881 which I loved and so much so that when I 0:05:37.881 --> 0:05:40.441 finished the degree, I didn't really feel like I wanted 0:05:40.481 --> 0:05:42.841 to leave and went back for another year post grad. 0:05:43.121 --> 0:05:45.241 Yeah. Oh, that's just what my students do when you 0:05:45.321 --> 0:05:47.081 haven't quite worked out what you're going to do. I guess, 0:05:47.201 --> 0:05:48.441 is that right exactly? 0:05:48.641 --> 0:05:52.321 And in those days you could get a studentship and 0:05:52.601 --> 0:05:55.721 be paid to go to university, which I appealed to 0:05:55.761 --> 0:05:57.921 me in those times at that time, because I was 0:05:57.961 --> 0:06:01.721 really quite feeling like I needed some money not relying 0:06:01.721 --> 0:06:05.481 on my appearance. So I actually took up a studentship, 0:06:05.521 --> 0:06:07.881 and with that studentship meant I had to teach for 0:06:07.921 --> 0:06:08.281 a year. 0:06:09.081 --> 0:06:12.481 OK so you sort of you sort of fell into 0:06:12.521 --> 0:06:15.401 teaching in a way because that was just a requirement. 0:06:15.441 --> 0:06:17.121 And then what did you think, this is not so bad? 0:06:17.321 --> 0:06:22.481 Yep, exactly that. I really perhaps, looking back, I didn't 0:06:22.561 --> 0:06:25.001 choose to be a teacher when I was younger. Yeah, 0:06:25.201 --> 0:06:27.201 but it got under my skin. 0:06:27.361 --> 0:06:30.481 Really was it an instant thing? Or as soon as 0:06:30.521 --> 0:06:31.761 you did it you just sort of thought, I mean, 0:06:31.761 --> 0:06:33.241 you must have had some good kids as well at 0:06:33.241 --> 0:06:35.081 your teaching, because if you'd had a bunch of rat bags, 0:06:35.081 --> 0:06:38.161 it might have been a bit less fun. I'm guessing. Sorry. 0:06:39.241 --> 0:06:40.841 I think when I was a young teacher, I wasn't 0:06:40.881 --> 0:06:45.241 that good. I can't remember having it. Probably in those 0:06:45.361 --> 0:06:48.841 days they had classes streamed and I had four C two, 0:06:49.321 --> 0:06:52.801 which was the lowest science class in form four in 0:06:53.361 --> 0:06:56.161 at wait take you girls? Yeah, and I found them 0:06:56.241 --> 0:07:00.641 quite uncontrollable sometimes, so I resorted to things I wasn't 0:07:00.641 --> 0:07:03.241 supposed to do, like send them out of the classroom 0:07:03.241 --> 0:07:06.401 to stand outside of like I really annoyed at them. 0:07:06.521 --> 0:07:10.241 Yeah, well, that doesn't sound too radical, does it? When 0:07:10.241 --> 0:07:12.641 did you just? When did? When did leaderships? When did 0:07:12.841 --> 0:07:15.121 taking roles like being a deputy principal? When did that 0:07:15.161 --> 0:07:17.001 become part of your sort of picture? 0:07:18.601 --> 0:07:20.961 I guess I loved the classroom and I love teaching, 0:07:21.361 --> 0:07:24.601 but I also saw the benefit of being able to 0:07:25.241 --> 0:07:29.321 influence things on a wider scale, and that's what you 0:07:29.401 --> 0:07:32.401 can do in senior leadership in particular as a principle. 0:07:32.761 --> 0:07:35.001 Does it when you do end up in those positions, 0:07:35.281 --> 0:07:37.921 does it make you examine how hard do you have 0:07:37.961 --> 0:07:39.881 to think about what, in fact you do want to 0:07:39.881 --> 0:07:43.201 impart to young people? And how how far a school 0:07:43.241 --> 0:07:47.401 can go in having a say in values, because there'd 0:07:47.401 --> 0:07:50.721 be certain social issues where families would think, actually, that 0:07:50.761 --> 0:07:53.761 school should have nothing to do with it. How did 0:07:54.201 --> 0:07:56.521 was that a different Was it an interesting journey for 0:07:56.641 --> 0:07:58.881 you working out that side of things? 0:07:59.281 --> 0:08:03.001 I think it was. It was really important to me 0:08:03.281 --> 0:08:06.681 that students get the opportunity to be educated now, and 0:08:06.881 --> 0:08:11.161 I guess that was inherent because my mother certainly went 0:08:11.201 --> 0:08:13.441 through high school, but my father was never given the 0:08:13.481 --> 0:08:16.721 opportunity to go to high school. And I saw what 0:08:16.761 --> 0:08:21.441 a very able man he was, and how much. It 0:08:21.481 --> 0:08:23.681 really affected his life not being able to go to 0:08:23.801 --> 0:08:28.601 high school and how empowering education is and what a 0:08:28.641 --> 0:08:32.281 responsibility we have to ensure that every student in New 0:08:32.361 --> 0:08:35.441 Zealand gets your opportunity to have a fantastic education. 0:08:36.641 --> 0:08:39.441 Do you think general schools, I mean, this is hard 0:08:39.441 --> 0:08:40.881 to make a judgment on this sort of thing, but 0:08:41.721 --> 0:08:44.681 do you think that we're doing a good job with 0:08:45.361 --> 0:08:48.041 outside of the family home, with the institutions like schools 0:08:48.441 --> 0:08:50.481 of teaching kids about values or are people a bit 0:08:51.041 --> 0:08:53.401 Is it something that you sort of tread lightly because 0:08:54.001 --> 0:08:56.241 I know you get the wrong message out there, or 0:08:56.241 --> 0:08:57.881 something that parents give you a hard time and then 0:08:57.921 --> 0:08:59.561 all of a sudden you're like, hang on, are we 0:08:59.641 --> 0:09:00.841 right doing that? What do you think? 0:09:01.201 --> 0:09:04.761 Oh? I think it's important because I think that not 0:09:04.841 --> 0:09:08.801 only should you be saying and educating about values, but 0:09:08.841 --> 0:09:12.001 you should also be modeling it in the school. And 0:09:12.361 --> 0:09:16.081 I think that's something that parents sometimes as a parent 0:09:16.121 --> 0:09:19.121 it's hard you say what you think, but are you 0:09:19.201 --> 0:09:23.161 really modeling it to your children? And that's always more 0:09:23.201 --> 0:09:24.521 difficult as a parent. 0:09:25.721 --> 0:09:28.081 It's easier in a way for schools, doesn't it to 0:09:28.121 --> 0:09:31.521 sort of push that values because you're not around the 0:09:31.521 --> 0:09:33.641 twenty four to seven where you can be accused of hypocrisy. 0:09:33.681 --> 0:09:35.761 Swearing would be the classic one where you say to 0:09:35.761 --> 0:09:37.881 your kids, don't use that sort of language. Well, dad, 0:09:37.881 --> 0:09:39.721 but I've heard you say that word. And I go, well, 0:09:40.161 --> 0:09:43.201 and I must say, I think I have fallen back 0:09:43.201 --> 0:09:46.361 on the line. It's like, Okay, I've got to be honest. 0:09:46.441 --> 0:09:48.601 I think I've said to them once. Look, I can 0:09:48.601 --> 0:09:52.441 get away with it because I'm better at picking my 0:09:52.601 --> 0:09:54.401 context and all that sort of thing. And I think 0:09:54.441 --> 0:09:57.161 I'm worried to lose in the argument. But does it 0:09:57.161 --> 0:10:00.401 always have to be? Do you always have to exactly 0:10:00.441 --> 0:10:03.841 mirror the values you're teaching your kids? Look, you're going 0:10:03.881 --> 0:10:04.801 to tell me, yes, it is. 0:10:05.041 --> 0:10:05.641 I think you should. 0:10:05.761 --> 0:10:08.601 Yes, definitely to But it's harder for parents though, isn't it. 0:10:08.641 --> 0:10:08.801 Oh? 0:10:08.881 --> 0:10:13.001 It is If you say that you really care and 0:10:13.801 --> 0:10:17.241 about others and you don't want to make sure they're okay, 0:10:17.281 --> 0:10:20.441 and then you, as a parent, don't show that by 0:10:20.441 --> 0:10:23.881 something that you do. It's really hard. You know, what 0:10:23.921 --> 0:10:26.601 are your children picking up on? And it's really hard. 0:10:27.401 --> 0:10:29.521 Nobody's perfect. We'll all make mistakes. 0:10:29.761 --> 0:10:31.161 Well, I guess that's part of it as well. Is 0:10:31.161 --> 0:10:33.561 that if you make mistakes, and it's how you deal 0:10:33.601 --> 0:10:36.481 with that side of things. I always I do struggle 0:10:36.521 --> 0:10:40.161 with the whole hypocrisy things because I guess, for instance, 0:10:40.401 --> 0:10:42.721 there are rules around what adults and children count and 0:10:42.721 --> 0:10:44.601 can't do, and they're different. There's a different set of 0:10:44.721 --> 0:10:47.121 rules as well around alcohol and things like that, and 0:10:47.201 --> 0:10:50.001 so I don't know. I'm not sure how to manage that. 0:10:50.041 --> 0:10:52.681 But we're probably getting off the topic here, but we 0:10:52.761 --> 0:10:55.481 want your cause on this, by the way, is who's 0:10:55.561 --> 0:11:00.201 responsible for teaching your kids' values core values? And if 0:11:00.241 --> 0:11:04.681 you are looking for support beyond that your home on 0:11:04.761 --> 0:11:06.681 teaching your kids' values, what are the values they are 0:11:06.721 --> 0:11:09.721 actually important to you that the school supports your children 0:11:09.721 --> 0:11:13.921 in learning. What do you think some core values are 0:11:14.441 --> 0:11:17.721 sandy when it comes to schools and other parts of 0:11:17.761 --> 0:11:21.361 the community supporting parents with that well, I. 0:11:21.321 --> 0:11:25.961 Think it's important that each student feels that they have 0:11:26.041 --> 0:11:29.841 got something special and that they are confident, and I 0:11:29.921 --> 0:11:33.081 really believe that. I think that if you feel good 0:11:33.081 --> 0:11:36.721 about yourself, then you'll certainly support and help other people. 0:11:37.601 --> 0:11:40.561 I think that if the child is not feeling good 0:11:40.601 --> 0:11:44.801 about themselves, it's very difficult for them to look outside themselves. 0:11:45.401 --> 0:11:49.521 How important for you then at Barradine. And look, it's 0:11:49.561 --> 0:11:51.561 not for you to be singing the praises of Barradine, 0:11:51.561 --> 0:11:54.561 but Baradine at least when it comes to academic results, 0:11:54.681 --> 0:11:58.201 features up the top. There, along with some other very 0:11:58.201 --> 0:12:04.281 fine schools, is part of that academic success absolutely contingent 0:12:05.281 --> 0:12:10.601 on the value side of things, which is a difficult question. 0:12:10.641 --> 0:12:13.121 I know, yes, because you can really drum things into 0:12:13.121 --> 0:12:16.401 people and people can you know, learn by fear? And 0:12:16.481 --> 0:12:19.641 I mean I learned a lot about in one particular 0:12:19.681 --> 0:12:22.561 class because I was terrified of the teacher back in 0:12:22.561 --> 0:12:25.201 the days of corporal punishment, and I probably learned a lot. 0:12:25.201 --> 0:12:26.481 And I'm not sure that was the right way to 0:12:26.521 --> 0:12:28.281 learn it. But then again, there was the teacher. I 0:12:28.281 --> 0:12:31.161 probably learned the most from mister Paul when I was 0:12:31.161 --> 0:12:36.521 eight years old. He he taught us well because we 0:12:36.641 --> 0:12:39.481 loved him. He was great fun. He made us feel 0:12:39.481 --> 0:12:42.001 ten feet high. I think every kid in that class 0:12:42.041 --> 0:12:46.721 felt special that that Again, that wasn't so much about values, 0:12:46.721 --> 0:12:49.321 I don't think, well, maybe it was his there was, 0:12:49.401 --> 0:12:51.001 Maybe there was some sort of values lesson in the 0:12:51.041 --> 0:12:55.241 way he treated us like individual respected human beings even 0:12:55.241 --> 0:12:58.201 though were eight year old, little troublesome upstarts. 0:12:58.561 --> 0:13:01.401 Yep. And I think you probably absorbed that and he 0:13:01.481 --> 0:13:04.721 cared about you. Yeah, And I think that that's what 0:13:04.761 --> 0:13:09.241 teach do. They can look at who's in front of 0:13:09.281 --> 0:13:13.601 them and think, I really care about these students. Now, 0:13:13.641 --> 0:13:15.801 how do I get the best out of them? And 0:13:15.841 --> 0:13:19.881 as for academic success, I think the reason academic success 0:13:20.001 --> 0:13:24.441 is good if each student reaches their potential, is it 0:13:24.481 --> 0:13:28.281 opens doors for the future and it's really a gate 0:13:28.321 --> 0:13:32.441 opening process where it means that they have got possibilities. 0:13:33.121 --> 0:13:34.961 Is it more difficult because one of the things we 0:13:35.001 --> 0:13:37.641 had I think you might have caught this hour we 0:13:37.681 --> 0:13:40.241 had with the principle of Vanguard School as well, which 0:13:40.281 --> 0:13:43.841 surprised me. I was expecting a discussion which was all 0:13:43.881 --> 0:13:47.201 about what we did cover off discipline and things. But 0:13:47.401 --> 0:13:53.241 it was interesting about what was driving their success. But 0:13:53.361 --> 0:13:58.561 the question around discipline, how much does that play a 0:13:58.601 --> 0:14:01.201 part in it? Because we live in a society where 0:14:01.761 --> 0:14:04.361 we obviously don't have physical discipline and I'm quite glad 0:14:04.361 --> 0:14:07.481 about that, But how important a role is that in 0:14:07.601 --> 0:14:08.361 educating kids? 0:14:08.401 --> 0:14:13.121 And I think it's important in students if they make mistakes, 0:14:13.481 --> 0:14:17.521 there are consequences, and I think that's what's hard about 0:14:17.521 --> 0:14:22.241 being a parent is teaching your child consequences at an 0:14:22.281 --> 0:14:26.721 early stage. I think the most difficult thing for schools 0:14:26.881 --> 0:14:29.841 is when parents and schools are not on the same page. 0:14:30.721 --> 0:14:35.121 And how is that possible from because it's there's hundreds 0:14:35.161 --> 0:14:39.841 of parents and hundreds of students in one school. What 0:14:40.521 --> 0:14:43.841 are the sort of are they sort of non negotiable 0:14:43.881 --> 0:14:46.001 I don't mean non negotiable, but what are the clear 0:14:46.041 --> 0:14:47.721 areas of easy overlap? Do you think? 0:14:49.921 --> 0:14:53.521 Well? I think sometimes with schools, a student may make 0:14:53.521 --> 0:14:56.561 a mistake and the school may want the student to 0:14:56.641 --> 0:15:01.161 learn from that mistake, and it needs really the parents 0:15:01.161 --> 0:15:03.361 to be on board with that learning because if it 0:15:03.401 --> 0:15:07.521 doesn't happen, the consequences down the track when they leave 0:15:07.561 --> 0:15:10.401 school and they realize, you know, they've been not made 0:15:10.401 --> 0:15:13.521 to face consequences, it can be quite serious if they 0:15:13.561 --> 0:15:14.601 do silly things. 0:15:15.441 --> 0:15:18.321 So actually, if we were talking about this off I 0:15:18.361 --> 0:15:20.601 was going to say, off camera, off Mike before the 0:15:20.601 --> 0:15:24.481 show started, because you have When you were the principal 0:15:24.481 --> 0:15:28.641 at Barrideen, you would meet every student, There'd be a 0:15:28.681 --> 0:15:31.761 get together and the student would be front and center, 0:15:31.881 --> 0:15:33.961 Mum and dad just on the side there, but you 0:15:33.961 --> 0:15:36.801 would interview them. Was that an important part of sort 0:15:36.801 --> 0:15:39.601 of like an informal contract or agreement. This is what 0:15:39.681 --> 0:15:42.681 our school's about, this is what we expect. Is that 0:15:42.721 --> 0:15:43.721 an important thing for you? 0:15:43.841 --> 0:15:47.481 Is it exactly exactly? Tim ittt was really important and 0:15:47.521 --> 0:15:50.121 being a Catholic school was really important that the parents 0:15:50.121 --> 0:15:54.201 were buying into all that meant and hence the discussion 0:15:55.041 --> 0:16:00.441 because I think it's important people know and therefore there's 0:16:00.481 --> 0:16:02.401 no surprises, it's transparent. 0:16:03.161 --> 0:16:06.201 Yeah, okay, look your calls on this, Sandy and I 0:16:06.201 --> 0:16:09.201 are going to continue chatting about this, about the role that, 0:16:09.361 --> 0:16:12.681 as they say, it takes a village, parents, caregivers, family community. 0:16:12.881 --> 0:16:15.361 But and parents do their best. We all do our 0:16:15.361 --> 0:16:18.961 best to instill the values that we hold dear, But 0:16:19.001 --> 0:16:21.801 what are the what role do you tolerate? I guess 0:16:21.801 --> 0:16:24.961 would be the slightly more stronger way of asking the question, 0:16:25.441 --> 0:16:29.441 what role do you tolerate your school making when it 0:16:29.441 --> 0:16:31.761 comes to teaching kids' values? And I know, look, I've 0:16:31.761 --> 0:16:34.081 had a couple of texts with saying that they've got 0:16:34.121 --> 0:16:38.001 no business none, they're not your values. But I don't 0:16:38.041 --> 0:16:42.201 think anyone seriously thinks they don't expect your kids to learn. 0:16:42.681 --> 0:16:46.841 Children to learn some significant values in the way that 0:16:46.881 --> 0:16:49.241 they treat others and the way they respond to challenges 0:16:49.281 --> 0:16:51.841 and all those sorts of things. So what do you 0:16:51.881 --> 0:16:54.881 think and where does when do parents actually have to 0:16:54.921 --> 0:16:58.041 start checking out of that equation? If ever, we'd love 0:16:58.081 --> 0:17:00.121 your calls on it. Eight hundred and eighty ten eighty 0:17:00.321 --> 0:17:03.161 text on nine two nine two. My guest is Sandy Pasley, 0:17:03.201 --> 0:17:05.681 she's a former principal at Barriding College. We'll be back 0:17:05.681 --> 0:17:13.121 in just a moment. News Talk z bun by myself. 0:17:17.321 --> 0:17:19.241 By week the. 0:17:25.801 --> 0:17:28.441 News Talk zed b. My name's Tim Beverages. You know, 0:17:28.721 --> 0:17:30.761 my guest is Sandy Pasley, who's the former princill at 0:17:30.801 --> 0:17:33.241 baradin College. Now the idea, the idea to get Sandy 0:17:33.241 --> 0:17:35.481 on the show as well was because she is I 0:17:35.521 --> 0:17:38.921 haven't had hidden which school my kids go to. Of 0:17:38.961 --> 0:17:41.681 course I share a little bit about them, but they 0:17:41.681 --> 0:17:45.321 do go to Baradene College. And for me, the journey 0:17:45.401 --> 0:17:50.401 to as a non I'm an atheist, as someone who's 0:17:50.441 --> 0:17:52.721 not religious, the decision to go along with my wife's 0:17:52.761 --> 0:17:56.681 decision to send my children to Baradine was huge. But 0:17:57.961 --> 0:18:00.721 that's why I'm fascinated with the role of values, because 0:18:00.761 --> 0:18:04.081 while I have a different view religiously, i was brought 0:18:04.161 --> 0:18:07.001 up in an Anglican schoo all myself, and I've always 0:18:07.001 --> 0:18:11.281 thought that the discussion around values and ethics and morals 0:18:11.281 --> 0:18:13.081 and things, and that the religion comes in and out 0:18:13.121 --> 0:18:16.041 of that equation is a fascinating one because in the end, 0:18:16.201 --> 0:18:18.561 we don't want to just turn out kids who know lots. 0:18:18.721 --> 0:18:20.841 We want to turn out good people. So we're taking 0:18:20.841 --> 0:18:22.761 your cause on how important it is for your school 0:18:22.801 --> 0:18:26.521 to teach your children values. And Sandy's with us right now, 0:18:26.561 --> 0:18:28.201 and I'll shut up and we'll talk to Graham. 0:18:28.281 --> 0:18:32.161 Hello, oh hello, how's it going all right? 0:18:32.201 --> 0:18:35.321 Thanks? What you got a question or an observation? What 0:18:35.361 --> 0:18:36.321 would you like to say. 0:18:38.441 --> 0:18:45.201 More than observation. I've been living in Queensland, Australia for 0:18:45.281 --> 0:18:48.841 probably about four years. I've got two children over there, 0:18:50.601 --> 0:18:57.841 my daughter's sixteen and my son's nineteen, and I would 0:18:57.921 --> 0:19:01.161 have loved to have bought them up, but with their 0:19:01.201 --> 0:19:05.001 special needs and that they were with the grand care 0:19:05.041 --> 0:19:10.561 parents for probably for probably a good eight years or 0:19:10.601 --> 0:19:15.401 so until my mother in law passed away, probably longer 0:19:15.441 --> 0:19:20.401 with my son and my daughter, and so that's one 0:19:20.441 --> 0:19:22.481 of the reasons I went over there. I've just come 0:19:22.521 --> 0:19:24.401 back to New Zealand for a while because I've had 0:19:24.441 --> 0:19:27.841 an auntie that passed away and the other auntie hasn't 0:19:27.881 --> 0:19:28.321 been well. 0:19:28.401 --> 0:19:30.881 You've got a couple of teenagers. I gather they're nineteen 0:19:30.921 --> 0:19:31.681 and sixteen now. 0:19:32.521 --> 0:19:34.881 Ah yeah, no, the both of them are bigger than 0:19:34.881 --> 0:19:39.201 me now, so they're both different from one another. My 0:19:39.281 --> 0:19:43.761 son Caleb, his likes adventure and when we had that 0:19:43.921 --> 0:19:47.521 cyclone over there, he disappeared because he wanted to ghost 0:19:47.561 --> 0:19:48.841 from the flooded creek. 0:19:49.361 --> 0:19:52.401 How did you influence how did you influence their values? 0:19:52.521 --> 0:19:54.881 Then we can bring it on to our the sort 0:19:54.921 --> 0:19:57.561 of focus of our conversation, how you influenced their values 0:19:57.641 --> 0:19:59.361 or have you had to trust others to do it? 0:19:59.681 --> 0:20:01.521 Graham, I've had. 0:20:01.361 --> 0:20:05.201 A good support network. Both my parents have passed away, 0:20:05.401 --> 0:20:09.401 and I haven't been that close to my immediate family 0:20:09.401 --> 0:20:11.921 because I mean they've had their own kids and so forth. 0:20:12.561 --> 0:20:19.241 And but just I'm part of a church group or 0:20:19.361 --> 0:20:23.121 network because I've been to different ones and I've just 0:20:23.281 --> 0:20:27.281 tried to get my son, my daughter. It's a bit 0:20:27.321 --> 0:20:32.761 different she's not, so she's such struggling with. 0:20:35.281 --> 0:20:37.121 Got a question you'd like to put to Sandy. I've 0:20:37.161 --> 0:20:39.161 got to hear, so I want to bring her own 0:20:39.161 --> 0:20:39.761 on the conversation. 0:20:39.921 --> 0:20:44.401 Was it, yeah, oh sure, okay, this kind of thing 0:20:44.441 --> 0:20:47.761 because my children they dropped out of school just like 0:20:48.441 --> 0:20:49.401 a year or two ago. 0:20:50.081 --> 0:20:51.721 Yeah, look, I might just put you on hold there 0:20:51.721 --> 0:20:53.921 and Graham and Steff my produce might have a quick 0:20:53.921 --> 0:20:55.161 tat to this if you want to pass on a 0:20:55.241 --> 0:20:58.121 question for Sandy. But actually that isn't that is a 0:20:58.361 --> 0:21:02.641 What Graham has mentioned is we've got broken families all 0:21:02.681 --> 0:21:05.881 the time, and the challenge of it it is of 0:21:06.281 --> 0:21:10.241 who's raising your children? So I don't even know what 0:21:10.281 --> 0:21:14.561 to say apart from that, what how on a second, 0:21:14.601 --> 0:21:16.441 let's see have Graham's still there? No, No, I'll tell 0:21:16.441 --> 0:21:17.801 you what. We'll move on from that, because I don't 0:21:17.801 --> 0:21:20.561 think we're going to get to the point on that. Hey, Sandy, 0:21:20.921 --> 0:21:23.401 he's a text here that says, hello, Tim and Sandy. 0:21:23.681 --> 0:21:26.001 When I went to school, he called your teacher mister 0:21:26.081 --> 0:21:29.321 or missus. Now it's on a first name basis a 0:21:29.361 --> 0:21:32.681 small point, but a fundamental slip in respect. Thanks mister Tim. 0:21:32.841 --> 0:21:38.481 That's from Shane. Yeah, does it matter how what a 0:21:38.521 --> 0:21:41.401 school's policy is on names? Is that is there something 0:21:41.401 --> 0:21:42.841 in respect on that or is that? What do you 0:21:42.881 --> 0:21:43.921 reckon Sandy. 0:21:44.161 --> 0:21:47.241 Well, I think some schools that might be the case, 0:21:47.281 --> 0:21:50.401 but also a lot of schools probably still call the 0:21:50.481 --> 0:21:55.241