Speaker 1: Kyota.
Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a
Speaker 2: daily podcast presented by The New Zealand Herald. The mistletoes hung,
Speaker 2: the bells are a ringing, and all through the moles,
Speaker 2: Mariah Carey is singing. It's the same old story told
Speaker 2: year after year of Santa and reindeer and widespread good cheer.
Speaker 2: But look a bit closer and you might see a
Speaker 2: crack in the stronghold Saint Nick has had since way back.
Speaker 2: Where once stood a hero red coat and beard white,
Speaker 2: a sack on his sleigh promising Christmas delight, now stands
Speaker 2: a figure towering six foot too tall, with a coat
Speaker 2: of green fur, a heart two sizes too small. The
Speaker 2: Grinch who stole Christmas is making a play for the
Speaker 2: title of hero. Come this Yule tied day, Old Saint Nick,
Speaker 2: This might not end well. And to give us the
Speaker 2: low down, Doctor Lorna Piati farnl So, Lorna, have you
Speaker 2: noticed more Grinch presents this year?
Speaker 3: I definitely have, But I have noticed a lot more
Speaker 3: Grinch themed merchandise around in this Christmas season.
Speaker 1: This has ranged from all sorts you know, like.
Speaker 3: Of products, from T shirts to matching family pajamas, plushes,
Speaker 3: Christmas tree decorations, you know, very cute Grinch themed ornaments,
Speaker 3: and even a lot of food tins of chocolates, tins
Speaker 3: of cookies with the Grinch on them, and of course
Speaker 3: food lines for children at a very well known first
Speaker 3: food restaurant I know. Here in Auckland, for instance, I'm
Speaker 3: at a particularly quite exciting Christmas New Christmas experience this year.
Speaker 3: Families can choose to have their picture taken there with
Speaker 3: Santa or the Grench.
Speaker 1: So it's not just.
Speaker 3: There, but it's been elevated to the same level of
Speaker 3: you know, Christmas iconicity. At Santa, you can actually have
Speaker 3: it taken with both, you know, like if anyone is
Speaker 3: so inclined. So there's definitely been a spike in the
Speaker 3: ways in which the Grench has been used for marketing
Speaker 3: and merchandise in purposes this Christmas season for sure.
Speaker 2: Well, it's funny that you mentioned that because this is
Speaker 2: where I started my journey, because I got an email
Speaker 2: from a Christmas photo outfit. I believe they're called Enchanted
Speaker 2: Christmas in New Market.
Speaker 1: I was thinking about it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so they give you the option of going
Speaker 2: with the center of the Grench or both. I emailed
Speaker 2: them and they said, this is the first year they're
Speaker 2: giving the option. They actually got the idea from the UK.
Speaker 2: It's really popular over there apparently, and bookings sat at
Speaker 2: about thirty percent of Santa So the Grinch of thirty
Speaker 2: percent of Santa when I asked, And groups of adults
Speaker 2: are actually preferring to book a picture with the Grinch.
Speaker 2: I mean, in terms of this situation, I've been scratching
Speaker 2: my head because I too have seen a lot more
Speaker 2: Grinch presence. I've done a survey amongst all of my
Speaker 2: friends with kids. They say, yes, we're not going insane,
Speaker 2: And I was trying to think, well, why why the
Speaker 2: Grinch all of a sudden, have you any idea?
Speaker 1: Well, I think.
Speaker 3: There's a certain appeal to the Grinch for quite a
Speaker 3: few reasons. I think on the one hand, it represents
Speaker 3: a bit of a cheeky and perhaps counterculture view of Christmas.
Speaker 3: You know, of all those Christmas traditions that we're you know,
Speaker 3: we come to know and love. He's quite the opposite
Speaker 3: of Chia in a number of ways. You know what
Speaker 3: we expect of the Christmas season. You know, it's quite
Speaker 3: funny he puts up a bit of a protest against
Speaker 3: the over the top atmosphere of Christmas and the Christmas
Speaker 3: spirit overall. So there is definitely something quite appealing about
Speaker 3: is grinchiness, you know, because some of us may feel
Speaker 3: a bit bahmburg about Christmas and how it's so you know,
Speaker 3: like hyped every year. So there's definitely that appeal as well.
Speaker 3: But I also think as a figure, you know, like
Speaker 3: when we get down to it, the Grench is very relatable,
Speaker 3: you know, character, you know, it's it's quite lonely. Struggles
Speaker 3: with isolation, it struggles with loneliness, it struggles we're having
Speaker 3: meaningful connections at a time when the season tells us
Speaker 3: that we must have those meaningful connections, that this is
Speaker 3: the meaning of the season.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: We live in a very hyper technological twenty first century
Speaker 3: where a lot of our lives are in the digital world,
Speaker 3: so the loss of connection is something that I think
Speaker 3: speaks quite loudly to people. So even though the Grench
Speaker 3: of course is not about being online and being on
Speaker 3: the internet, it still has that core idea, you know
Speaker 3: that we can get a little bit lonely at Christmas
Speaker 3: and we can struggle, you know, to make those connections,
Speaker 3: and I think in the end is transformation, you know,
Speaker 3: into an individual school quite lonely, but get Cup comes
Speaker 3: to get you know, like understand the meaning of Christmas. Again,
Speaker 3: it's quite relatable, and I think his story is popular
Speaker 3: precisely because he tuckles themes like loneliness, but also the
Speaker 3: hyper commercialization of Christmas, which is something that you know,
Speaker 3: I think some of us have become quite aware of
Speaker 3: these holidays and is this pushed to buy you know,
Speaker 3: I can produce presents and do something fantastic. Of course,
Speaker 3: having said that, there is probably something quite ironic about
Speaker 3: the fact that the Grinch figure has become so heavily commercialized.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I was going to say, you know, didn't he
Speaker 2: say something like what if Christmas? He thought, doesn't come
Speaker 2: from a store?
Speaker 1: Yet You've got you know, the Jammas And.
Speaker 3: It's intrinsic to the Grinch story, right, So we see
Speaker 3: the errony here of the figure I have become so commercialized.
Speaker 3: But of course, also in terms of why he's appealing,
Speaker 3: we must not forget that the the Grne comes from
Speaker 3: a very beloved Dtor Sue's book, which has been you
Speaker 3: a licence nineteen fifty six, So there's definitely and all
Speaker 3: the film and animated adaptations that have come after, of course,
Speaker 3: and there have been a few. It's humorous, and undoubtedly
Speaker 3: there is a lot of for some of us, at
Speaker 3: least turned up on myself in that group, a lot
Speaker 3: of deep rooted nostalgia that heightens the appeal of the
Speaker 3: Grinch figure with the public.
Speaker 4: Undoubted, every who down in Hoover liked Christmas Salt.
Speaker 1: Bravo Jesus.
Speaker 4: O my Gridge.
Speaker 1: I must thank color.
Speaker 4: Course you could change my entire look on life.
Speaker 5: Warry no.
Speaker 4: Jim carry even if we're horribly mandels faces on.
Speaker 1: Doctor Seu says how the Green Store Christmas? Even if
Speaker 1: I wanted to go my shall, I wouldn't allow it.
Speaker 4: One o'clock while I went self checkstading dinner with me.
Speaker 3: I can't can't kill that again.
Speaker 2: I was surprised to see that it's actually the twenty
Speaker 2: fifth anniversary of the Jim Carrey adaptation that film, So
Speaker 2: I was thinking, well, could that have something to do
Speaker 2: with why we're seeing him especially so much this year,
Speaker 2: or is it just all millennials growing up and having
Speaker 2: kids and you know, exposing their children this new generation
Speaker 2: to the Grinch.
Speaker 3: Why is the end of the twenty fifth anniversary, isn't it?
Speaker 3: That's come around far too quickly for my liking. But undoubtedly,
Speaker 3: you know, the Jim Carrey movie definitely had a very
Speaker 3: generational impact, you know, like for millennials, you or like,
Speaker 3: it was a big Grench narrative of the time. The
Speaker 3: renewed interest in the Grinch came with that movie. But
Speaker 3: I don't think the Jim Carrey movie is the only
Speaker 3: reason why we're witnessing a growth or resurfacing of pop
Speaker 3: popularity of the grenching you know, Christmas merchandise. Certainly the
Speaker 3: items that I've seen of the Grench particularly recalled the
Speaker 3: Doctor Seuss illustrations or even more so the nineteen sixty
Speaker 3: six adaptation, you know, cartoon adaptation, which has become quite
Speaker 3: iconic over the years.
Speaker 1: So I think all these different Grench.
Speaker 3: Narratives and older nostalgia that they brought up at a
Speaker 3: time where the world is not in the most fantastic place.
Speaker 1: Perhaps so some of us.
Speaker 3: May turn to nostalgia, you know, like to make us
Speaker 3: feel a bit better, to share with our family, you know,
Speaker 3: like if we you know, people have children and are
Speaker 3: of that generation where the Grench you know, like got
Speaker 3: a little bit of a boost in the nineties and
Speaker 3: early two thousands. Certainly this is the right time for
Speaker 3: the Grench as a figure to capture the imagination at Christmas.
Speaker 2: It does seem quite strange how a figure, a Christmas
Speaker 2: specific figure has come along and is able to at
Speaker 2: least compete with Father Christmas at the top of the
Speaker 2: leader board when it comes to fictional or non fictional,
Speaker 2: you know, off the top. I mean, should the Easter
Speaker 2: Bunny be worried? I know in Australia we had there
Speaker 2: was a resurgence of the Easter Bilby at one point
Speaker 2: because you know, farmers don't like rabbits on their farms
Speaker 2: and everything. But the Easter Bilby really didn't you know,
Speaker 2: take off, so to speak. Only Australia. Some Australians of
Speaker 2: a certain generation probably know who the Easter Bilby is.
Speaker 1: Do you reckon that there's any other.
Speaker 2: Figures or fictional characters out there that could, you know,
Speaker 2: give other others a run for their money.
Speaker 1: So we're wondering if the Grinch as indeed stolen Christmas
Speaker 1: in more.
Speaker 3: Ways than one, well two parts of this in spite
Speaker 3: of the Grench's popularity that we're seeing this year, this
Speaker 3: incredible resurgence is everywhere. Yeah, all the nostalgia, all the merchandise,
Speaker 3: Santa is very much still there, you know, still very
Speaker 3: much in all the merchandise, is in the shop displays,
Speaker 3: is in the picture opportunities you.
Speaker 1: Know that we can have, you know, like is in
Speaker 1: the adverts. It's Christmas adverts.
Speaker 3: So I don't quite think Santa at least is at
Speaker 3: a risk of losing is thrown as the King of Christmas.
Speaker 3: As for other figures, well that remains to be seen.
Speaker 3: You know, like I'm not sure the Ister Bunny has
Speaker 3: enough competition you know, in popular culture quite yet, of course,
Speaker 3: you know, like there are the Christian traditions, you know,
Speaker 3: like around something, you know, a celebration like Easter, that
Speaker 3: don't necessarily involve the Ister Bunny. So again we've got
Speaker 3: quite a few offshoots. But as far as Christmas is concerned,
Speaker 3: it's quite nice to see a little bit of an alternative,
Speaker 3: different ways, diverse ways of celebrating Christmas and different Christmas
Speaker 3: psychonomic piography is coming into the full ground that are
Speaker 3: not necessarily the traditional you know, narrative that we've been
Speaker 3: known to. This is a sign that you know, people
Speaker 3: are embracing different ways of seeing the world and I
Speaker 3: think that is quite pleasing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, how do you think Christmas marketing has evolved over
Speaker 2: the years and what's like kind of stayed the same
Speaker 2: and what's really different?
Speaker 3: Well, I think Christmas marketing, some aspects of it have
Speaker 3: really changed, you know, has really changed over the years.
Speaker 3: I think we have moved a little bit away from
Speaker 3: the traditional perhaps product you know, material focused campaigns that
Speaker 3: traditionally historically use the print and broadcast media you know,
Speaker 3: like as the primary venue you know, like to.
Speaker 1: Get out there. Two more contemporary and perhaps emotionally and
Speaker 1: values driven marketing that uses a lot more of social
Speaker 1: media and storytelling to create a connection, you.
Speaker 3: Know, like with people, you know with In the end,
Speaker 3: we're still talking about buying, you know, like we're still
Speaker 3: talking about purchasing items, but I think that storytelling aspects
Speaker 3: and that emotional aspects, it has become a lot more
Speaker 3: to marketing that perhaps it has been historically. Now key
Speaker 3: factors that might have influenced this, of course include the
Speaker 3: rise of online shopping. A lot more people do their
Speaker 3: shopping online, so we needed to change, you know, like
Speaker 3: how we create that connection. The use of digital platforms
Speaker 3: for targeted advertising, including platforms such as Instagram that are
Speaker 3: very picture you know, like emotional focused, you know, like
Speaker 3: that emotional response, and of course an evolution in you know,
Speaker 3: campaigns that tend to reflect social values a lot more.
Speaker 3: I think traditionally Christmas marketing as tend to put forward
Speaker 3: a very family, still Christian inspired, family centric narrative, while
Speaker 3: we see our Christmas marketing has become, you know, in
Speaker 3: the digital world, a lot more diverse and a lot
Speaker 3: more inclusive of different experience and experiences and different situations.
Speaker 3: And of course, within that, I think there is the understanding,
Speaker 3: you know, like in the shift that for the majority
Speaker 3: of people, not all, but for a good portion of
Speaker 3: the population, Christmas is a secular experience rather than perhaps
Speaker 3: a Christian one, but still places an emphasis on community,
Speaker 3: on family, on the importance of coming together, and the
Speaker 3: importance of celebrating. So I think Christmas marketing has taken
Speaker 3: all those shifts, social and cultural shifts into account to
Speaker 3: present us with something that is a lot more focused
Speaker 3: on experience rather than the product itself that they're selling.
Speaker 1: Like what is this going to.
Speaker 3: Do for me?
Speaker 1: On do this to create memories?
Speaker 3: You know, the idea of creative memories is very very central,
Speaker 3: I think to Christmas marketing, and we see it even
Speaker 3: with the types of products that have become very central,
Speaker 3: you know, to a lot of our Christmas experiences, like
Speaker 3: taking Christmas photos with the family. You know, that's become
Speaker 3: one of the big sellers like Christmas, you know, rather
Speaker 3: than just gifting something is gifting experience and gifted memory.
Speaker 3: So we definitely see that shift. And the emotional storytelling
Speaker 3: and the message focused marketing has become very central. But
Speaker 3: of course we're not forgetting the material side, you know,
Speaker 3: the experience.
Speaker 1: The big windows, displays, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 3: The lights, the decorations even in the streets are still there.
Speaker 3: So we see I think a bit more of a
Speaker 3: balanced experience with Christmas marketing that takes into account the product,
Speaker 3: of course we're still selling, but also puts in the
Speaker 3: foreground the experience of Christmas and why it's meaningful for people.
Speaker 4: Gond it be so it came with out ribbons, it
Speaker 4: came without tags, it came with our packages, boxes or bags.
Speaker 5: He puzzled and puzzed to his puzzle of a saw.
Speaker 5: The gridch thought of something you haven't before. Maybe Christmas,
Speaker 5: he thought, doesn't come from a store. Maybe Christmas perhaps
Speaker 5: means a little bit more.
Speaker 2: When you said that, the emotional switch on the ads
Speaker 2: immediately made me think of the John Lewis ads ink. Yes,
Speaker 2: so every year they come out with one, and it's
Speaker 2: like they're coming out with them every year to see
Speaker 2: how many more people they can get to cry. Really,
Speaker 2: the one that comes to my mind is the Elton
Speaker 2: John one, but they're really famous for bringing that you know,
Speaker 2: that loving and caring and it really is that kind
Speaker 2: of marketing switch from bye bye bye to you know,
Speaker 2: what can you do for your family and your friends
Speaker 2: and everything for Christmas. On one hand, though, I actually
Speaker 2: have seen a more sustainable approach to Christmas. I actually
Speaker 2: found myself watching a whole bunch of TikTok videos on
Speaker 2: how to wrap presents and silk scarves. But on the
Speaker 2: other hand, I also have seen those videos of influences
Speaker 2: with a massive tree with you know, presents piled up
Speaker 2: to the ceiling. So there are those two extremes for sure.
Speaker 2: What do you make of that?
Speaker 3: I think absolutely I've also seen, you know, like the
Speaker 3: pictures with Christmas, you know, like the bigger, the better, right,
Speaker 3: you know, like huge Christmas trees going all the way
Speaker 3: to the ceiling, and so many presents that you gotta wonder,
Speaker 3: you know, what's in all those boxes, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 3: And also a push I think for influencers to put
Speaker 3: forward Christmas products, things like advent calendars, you know, like
Speaker 3: that again put the emphasis on that materialistic side, which
Speaker 3: eventually is a little bit of a throwaway experience when
Speaker 3: it comes to it, with all the packaging.
Speaker 1: But I've also I agree with you that I've.
Speaker 3: Also seen a rise in a desire for a more
Speaker 3: sustainable Christmas with many people, and even we see this
Speaker 3: on social media, you know, like so many videos and
Speaker 3: so many tips for adopting a more environmentally conscious you know,
Speaker 3: way to reduce and wte to reduce waste, or you know,
Speaker 3: choosing eco friendly gifts made with eco friendly materials. I
Speaker 3: think there's a lot more conscious consciousness and you know,
Speaker 3: desire to engage in that. And of course, even with
Speaker 3: the Christmas lunches and Christmas meals, opting for more local.
Speaker 1: And seasonal foods you know, like for the Christmas.
Speaker 3: Season, there's definitely been a rise in that and I've
Speaker 3: seen it in a lot of different contexts. So this
Speaker 3: also includes embracing experiences, like we said over material goods.
Speaker 3: That is also part of that sustainability, you know, like
Speaker 3: that goes hand in hand with the desire to feel
Speaker 3: connected to people and look after the planet.
Speaker 1: You know, I think that is all part of the
Speaker 1: same narrative.
Speaker 3: Reusing, you know, using reusable gift wrapping, perhaps the scar
Speaker 3: for perhaps just beautiful fabric that can be used, you know,
Speaker 3: like a year in and year out. I've also seen
Speaker 3: several lines of reusable Christmas crackers, you know, Christmas farm.
Speaker 2: Bars yes so high actually, yes.
Speaker 3: That you can make yourself every year and also choose
Speaker 3: much more meaningful little gifts that you can give, you know,
Speaker 3: to your friends and family and be sustainable in the
Speaker 3: process as well. So there's definitely a conscious effort, and
Speaker 3: these are just examples of sustainability, you know, becoming part
Speaker 3: of how many people think about their daily lives, their
Speaker 3: interest in the planet, their interest in being environmentally conscious,
Speaker 3: and also how it goes hand in hand with building memories.
Speaker 3: Building experiences is now a normal part of our Christmas celebrations.
Speaker 2: So lastly, Laurna, do you in fact think the Grinch
Speaker 2: will steal Christmas?
Speaker 3: Oh, I've certainly been trying for quite a few years now.
Speaker 3: I think the Grinch may have come to accept that
Speaker 3: some parts of Christmas might be his.
Speaker 1: And you know, it never turns down an.
Speaker 3: Opportunity for bar and humbug, which I think some of
Speaker 3: us might want to join in a little bit.
Speaker 1: But I think, like with everything, a little bit of.
Speaker 3: Balance that makes for a much happier experience at Christmas.
Speaker 3: And in the end, everyone should do what brings their
Speaker 3: joy and brings them joy and you know, like do
Speaker 3: with their hearts desire to have the best experience they
Speaker 3: can at Christmas.
Speaker 2: Thanks so much for joining us, Lorna.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure.
Speaker 2: That's it for this episode of The Front Page. You
Speaker 2: can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage
Speaker 2: at NZHERLD dot co dot nz. The Front Page is
Speaker 2: produced by Jane Ye and Richard Martin, who's also our editor.
Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the Front Page on iHeartRadio
Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts and tune in tomorrow
Speaker 2: for another look behind the headlines.