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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Saturday Morning with Jack Tame podcast

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Speaker 1: from News Talks at b.

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Speaker 2: Kieren Hines's acting talents lend himself to both villainous rolls

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Speaker 2: and simmering heroics. His long and storied career has included

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Speaker 2: intimate Shakespearean theater productions right through to major franchises such

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Speaker 2: as Harry Potter, Game of Thrones, Lord of the Rings,

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Speaker 2: and the Disney animation Frozen. Kieran's latest project, The Narrow

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Speaker 2: Road to the Deep North, is an intimate character study

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Speaker 2: of human spirit. It's a series based on the novel

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Speaker 2: by Richard Fanagan said against the backdrop of a Japanese

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Speaker 2: prisoner of war camp during the Second World War, tell

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Speaker 2: me how.

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Speaker 3: Did it feel going from a soldier into a prisoner

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Speaker 3: of war to be Pinkasia Redd? When I was your

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Speaker 3: fighting his hard for soldier spirit? Yours here to buildar alven?

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Speaker 3: What are you for Callmost of that time, memory is

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Speaker 3: the only true justice.

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Speaker 2: It's The Narrow Road to the Deep North. And Kiaren

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Speaker 2: Hines is with us this morning, Kyoda, Welcome to the show.

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Speaker 3: Thank you very much, Jack.

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Speaker 2: The Narrow Road to the Deep North. It is an

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Speaker 2: extraordinary novel by Richard Flanagan. But tell us what drew

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Speaker 2: you to this production.

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Speaker 3: I guess the first thing that dremmagers the production was

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Speaker 3: a contact that my agent got touch saying that Justin

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Speaker 3: Kurzel was interested in me perhaps playing a role in

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Speaker 3: project he was doing. And I had, like chance, had

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Speaker 3: seen a film called Nitrum that or Nitrim, I'm not

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Speaker 3: sure what it's called, but that he and Sean Grant,

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Speaker 3: the writer, had put together and I was very, very

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Speaker 3: moved by it. So I knew that he had some

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Speaker 3: of his work. He had done Macbeth and I. So

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Speaker 3: I asked what the project was, and he said, Narrow

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Speaker 3: Wrote to the Deep North, a book I'd heard of

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Speaker 3: but had never read, and they sent me a couple

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Speaker 3: of scripts, and I was immediately hooked by the quality

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Speaker 3: of the writing and the story itself. So I went

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Speaker 3: out and got myself the book, and then I had

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Speaker 3: this extraordinary, extraordinary experience reading and leepally deeply moved. I

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Speaker 3: was by the stavatory, the cruelty to brutality, the love,

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Speaker 3: the deep assion they wanting. It's a huge and hugely

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Speaker 3: emotional read for anybody. But it also filled me in

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Speaker 3: in some history that I wasn't really aware of. And

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Speaker 3: from then I said, I'm very interested in this project,

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Speaker 3: and so it down from there.

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Speaker 2: I see, I'm interested. You say that because because it

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Speaker 2: is a love story, but it also details some of

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Speaker 2: the absolute worst horrors from Theacific campaign in the Second

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Speaker 2: World War. And as someone who grew up, I suppose

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Speaker 2: in the shadow of the Second World War or in

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Speaker 2: the decades thereafter, was the Pacific dimension to that conflict

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Speaker 2: something that had come across your you know it come

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Speaker 2: across your desk before. Was it something you were aware of?

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Speaker 3: Not in any in any great shakes in any way,

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Speaker 3: because because I supposed through history or through school, through whatever,

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Speaker 3: through just location, we were more involved with the war

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Speaker 3: in Europe. But I guess the reflection I would have

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Speaker 3: was probably in my late scenes seeing bridge of the

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Speaker 3: River Kwai, for example, that would have been the reference

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Speaker 3: I would have had. And then so my God, and

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Speaker 3: then I read a few things about it. But it's

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Speaker 3: very interesting when you read it through. For me, from

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Speaker 3: when I went through literature as opposed to history, it

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Speaker 3: makes it even more real. The horror, yeah, the savagery

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Speaker 3: of the brutality, and yet the courage and deep the

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Speaker 3: love of man to hold on to each other in

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Speaker 3: a sense of survival and commitment to each other. It

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Speaker 3: was huge. I mean, it's a great human book, you know,

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Speaker 3: full of horror, but full of beauty and passion and desire. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: make you read for anybody?

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Speaker 2: Do you do you think that through stories or maybe

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Speaker 2: even through personal experience. It's it's a sort of a cliche,

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Speaker 2: you know, the best of times or the worst in

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Speaker 2: times brings out the best in people. And and I suppose,

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Speaker 2: I suppose one of the things that's really clear, you

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Speaker 2: know that I'll make no bones about it. This is

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Speaker 2: at times a very confronting watch. It's it's pretty, it's

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Speaker 2: pretty dark, and viewers are not spared the horrors of

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Speaker 2: you know, of life and death as prisoners of war

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Speaker 2: during the Second World War in Mianma or in Burma.

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Speaker 2: Do you think we as humans need to experience those

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Speaker 2: absolute horrors in order to see the very best of

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Speaker 2: our species as well?

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Speaker 3: I'm not one for relishing or indulging in kind of

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Speaker 3: torture porn. That's a different thing. But this is this

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Speaker 3: is a sense of reality I noticed in you know

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Speaker 3: when I read it, even reading it without you know,

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Speaker 3: being visualized on camera for for a television adaptation. You know,

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Speaker 3: one's imagination takes one away into into a terrible place.

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Speaker 3: But what I've found about this when I saw the

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Speaker 3: rough cut was it's kind of it's held back a lot,

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Speaker 3: but it's it's there. It's held back until a moment

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Speaker 3: arrives that it becomes relentless. But it is one huge moment.

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Speaker 3: And yet so it's not regularly in your face all

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Speaker 3: the time or hear it comes again. So when it comes,

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Speaker 3: it's like as if it would never stop. But it

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Speaker 3: gives you the idea that these men lived under these

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Speaker 3: conditions for those years and years, although they you know,

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Speaker 3: in extremists, they show this one idea of a severe

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Speaker 3: beating and it is extraordinary and you're begging yourself, i

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Speaker 3: think the viewer for it to stop, to stop. And

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Speaker 3: yet the thing is all the you know, the way

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Speaker 3: the story is, these men cannot stop it. There's nothing

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Speaker 3: they can stop, and they're witness to it like we

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Speaker 3: are witnessed to watching the filmmaker make this, but in

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Speaker 3: not in any it's such a human film, and it's

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Speaker 3: it's a hard watch. You're right, it's really hard. And

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Speaker 3: then there's those moments that keep Dorrigo Evans the main protagonist,

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Speaker 3: this young doctor who helps keep all these people alive

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Speaker 3: in a sense of how he can save their lives,

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Speaker 3: how he can keep them going. And yet he himself

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Speaker 3: is kept alive by in a way kind of well,

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Speaker 3: it's not illicit wealth, but his heart is taken profoundly

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Speaker 3: by a young woman who he's not intended for. He's

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Speaker 3: intended for another woman, but he can't help. But one

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Speaker 3: time help out of the heart, dic takes your life,

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Speaker 3: and that flame keeps him alive and away because all

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Speaker 3: this kind of thing is all burning, burning together, and

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Speaker 3: there's this sense of what is love and what is

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Speaker 3: devotion and need a passion. It's this book that Richard

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Speaker 3: Fanninger wrote. It's full of it. And also because of

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Speaker 3: the fact that jumps between timing periods between the nineteen

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Speaker 3: forties in Australia and in Burma and then to the

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Speaker 3: nineteen eighties, and it keeps going backwards and forwards in

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Speaker 3: that time, and you see what the kind of a

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Speaker 3: shell of a man that this young passionate doctor has become.

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Speaker 3: He's still a renowned doctor and he still has empathy,

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Speaker 3: but he's kind of a shell of a man. He's

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Speaker 3: kind of there's a lack of warmth in him anymore,

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Speaker 3: and I think it's because of what he's been through

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Speaker 3: so deeply in his early life.

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Speaker 2: And so you're playing Doregon Dorogo rather in the nineteen eighties,

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Speaker 2: and Jacob Lord he is playing him as a young

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Speaker 2: man in the nineteen forties, so obviously the story sort

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Speaker 2: of swings between those those two different times. Did you

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Speaker 2: work with Jacob at all? Do you with the sort

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Speaker 2: of production you don't coordinate around Dorogo's character or anything

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Speaker 2: like that.

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Speaker 3: No, I guess I always wondered so because Jacob was

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Speaker 3: obviously cast to play the younger Dorigo Evans, which is

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Speaker 3: the main role, and then I guess they throw a

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Speaker 3: net out to see who can play the older one.

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Speaker 3: And it's kind of interesting. You think poor Jacob was

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Speaker 3: going to end up a bit like me when he's old.

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Speaker 3: That would be a terrible thing for him. But I

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Speaker 3: think it's about a spirit of people that Justin Kurzel,

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Speaker 3: director was looking for something that he's seen in the

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Speaker 3: performance I've given is what he was looking for about

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Speaker 3: the soul of this man. And I only met it

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Speaker 3: was lovely to me him. This was a terrific actor.

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Speaker 3: But I literally met him for five minutes because we

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Speaker 3: were in different time zones and I was just finishing

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Speaker 3: and he was literally coming back to start restart some

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Speaker 3: of the work that they'd already done, and I was

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Speaker 3: just in for three weeks to cover what I had

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Speaker 3: to do, and so at least we got to say hello.

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Speaker 2: It strikes me, Karen, that you have had nothing if

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Speaker 2: not an incredibly richly diversified and very career. You've played

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Speaker 2: all these characters and all sorts of different production shows, movies,

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Speaker 2: theater productions over the years, stories all around the world.

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Speaker 2: But I wanted to ask you about Belfast because it's

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Speaker 2: a couple of years since I think you were probably

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Speaker 2: getting fitted for a suit to go to the Oscars

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Speaker 2: nominated for your role in Belfast, and as someone who

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Speaker 2: grew up in Northern Ireland, did telling that story was

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Speaker 2: the personal dimension and connection you had to the place

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Speaker 2: in the city. Did that add another kind of element

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Speaker 2: to that production for you?

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Speaker 3: It was huge. It was huge to me, not the

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Speaker 3: fact that you're nominated for an Oscar and that it

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Speaker 3: was huge, the idea of just because the way my

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Speaker 3: life has gone, you know, through a lot of theater

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Speaker 3: and some television and film and bouncing from here to there,

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Speaker 3: not like a headless chicken, sometimes not knowing where am

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Speaker 3: I going? Now? What's the gig, what's the deal? What

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Speaker 3: do I have to do? How do I have to prepare?

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Speaker 3: Am I going to be able for this? I'm going

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Speaker 3: to write for this? But keep going. And then suddenly,

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Speaker 3: after all those years just working, suddenly Cam Brown sent

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Speaker 3: the script to me and I read it and I

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Speaker 3: just connected with it immediately, And so I guess I

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Speaker 3: don't know. I would have been in my late sixties,

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Speaker 3: late sixties, and after all those years of charging around everywhere,

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Speaker 3: somebody said I'm down and come home. And although we

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Speaker 3: filmed it in Berkshire, in England, all of it it

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Speaker 3: was like coming home. And they did this because Ken

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Speaker 3: had been very, very faithful to our tribe, our Northern

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Speaker 3: Irish tribe. Even though Ken's Catholic, it doesn't we a

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Speaker 3: try from of Irish people, and we're from the North

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Speaker 3: of Ireland, and we have our own separate banter kind

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Speaker 3: of rules, kind of behavior. And I recognized in his

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Speaker 3: sensitivity of his writing and the joy of his writing

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Speaker 3: that a different Catholic divide is kind of an invention,

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Speaker 3: not real in a way, but it's real. It doesn't

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Speaker 3: mean anything really because at the heart of it, if

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Speaker 3: people are the same, and what he wrote reflecting exactly

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Speaker 3: my family too.

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Speaker 2: Finally, Kieren, you're in New Zealand at the moment, shooting

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Speaker 2: shooting east of Eden. We have this terrible habit in

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Speaker 2: the New Zealand media of anyone, anytime anyone of interest

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Speaker 2: visits as sures, we're all desperate to ask them the

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Speaker 2: same question that it's actually become a bit of a parody.

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Speaker 2: But it'd be remiss for me not to ask you,

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Speaker 2: what are your impressions of New Zealand? What do you

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Speaker 2: think of New Zealand?

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Speaker 3: I love it, mate, love it. It's no I've come

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Speaker 3: here for four weeks, came to Auckland to prepare, then

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Speaker 3: down to Omaru and the Otago Hills. I mean, my

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Speaker 3: heart was taken again by another landscape that's so beautiful.

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Speaker 3: I got to share a glass of wine with Sam Neil,

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Speaker 3: which was a joy for me because of course he

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Speaker 3: was born in Oman County, Toronto all those years back then.

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Speaker 3: He's such a lovely man. And you know, he gave

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Speaker 3: me some advice about where to eat when it came

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Speaker 3: to Auckland, and it was also what I nursed. Apart

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Speaker 3: from the landscape, the people are very just the lovely

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Speaker 3: warmth about them, a natural warmth and I'm not just

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Speaker 3: blowing smoke, by the way. What I loved about was

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Speaker 3: the New Zealand crew people who are doing all the

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Speaker 3: technical work around while we do our acting. They're so great.

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Speaker 3: They work in such a calm way. They're not running

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Speaker 3: around showing you that they're working. The work is getting done,

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Speaker 3: but they're caramel about it and I love that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm pleased to hear it. We'll all the very

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Speaker 2: best for the remainder of your time here. I hope

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Speaker 2: you can enjoy some blue cod because I know that

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Speaker 2: the water is off the coast of Armado bringing some

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Speaker 2: of the best blue cord in the world. I think,

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Speaker 2: so hopefully you can enjoy that while you're there. And

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Speaker 2: congratulations that the Narrow Road to the Deep North is

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Speaker 2: deeply moving and affecting. And thank you so much, oh great,

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Speaker 2: thanks soluch.

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Speaker 3: Love me to talk to.

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Speaker 2: You you too. That is Karen Hines. The Narrow Road

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Speaker 2: to the Deep North is his news show. We'll make

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Speaker 2: sure all the details are up on the news Talks.

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Speaker 2: He'd be website for.

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Speaker 1: More from Saturday Morning with Jack Tame. Listen live to

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Speaker 1: news Talks he'd be from nine am Saturday, or follow

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Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio