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Speaker 1: So the land v Tree debates hotted up again. I'm

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Speaker 1: afraid to tellyfed farmer is not happy. They see loopholes

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Speaker 1: and what the government are trying to do around the

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Speaker 1: productive farmland via the carbon offsets and planting pine trees,

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Speaker 1: et cetera. Richard Dawkins's fed Farmer's forestry man, and he's well,

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Speaker 1: there's Richard morning.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, good morning.

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Speaker 1: Mine's tricky one, this isn't it the line between what

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Speaker 1: a government or the rules of the day are versus

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Speaker 1: what a person should be able to do with their land.

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Speaker 1: I mean, where do you land on That's.

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Speaker 2: I don't think it's complex at at all. Actually, Mike,

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Speaker 2: look what we're advocating for. It still allows owners to

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Speaker 2: do what they choose with their land. And that's a

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Speaker 2: really important point. The proposals are a twenty five percent

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Speaker 2: restriction on carbon credits, on your ability to claim carbon.

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Speaker 2: It's not actually a restriction on what you can and

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Speaker 2: can't do with your.

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Speaker 1: Land, the intent to plant thing that seemingly has been sorted.

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Speaker 1: Has it been sorted and has it been sorted to

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Speaker 1: your satisfaction?

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Speaker 2: Well, time will only tell on that, Mike. What I

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Speaker 2: can say is they have tightened up that loophole, which

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Speaker 2: which is great to see. So foresters now need two requirements. Well,

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Speaker 2: they need to prove that the ordered seedlings and are

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Speaker 2: intended to buy land before December. The fourth site has

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Speaker 2: tightened up it.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So just to explain to people that haven't followed this,

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Speaker 1: people are buying seedlings, they don't have the land. They say, look,

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Speaker 1: we're going to eventually buy some land. So they've tightened

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Speaker 1: up on that aspect.

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Speaker 2: Of it, right, Yeah, that's right. But the major hole

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Speaker 2: still is the fact that the majority of sheep and

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Speaker 2: beef farms, you know, the engine room that drives our industry,

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Speaker 2: are on classes six and seven, and there's no restrictions

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Speaker 2: on the ability to claim carbon on class seven, and

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Speaker 2: fifteen thousand hectares can still be converted on class six.

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Speaker 1: So class one to five is only twelve percent versus

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Speaker 1: your six and seven, which is as you say, you

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Speaker 1: beef and sheep. So do they need to move on

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Speaker 1: six or seven or do something with one in five

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Speaker 1: or more with one in five?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So the restrictions are on classes one to five,

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Speaker 2: so the twenties only can claim twenty five percent of

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Speaker 2: the carbon on that land. But we'd really like to

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Speaker 2: see that extended to classes six and seven as well.

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Speaker 1: How big is the gap between you and the government.

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Speaker 2: Oh, look at it's a simple amendment. It's a very

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Speaker 2: easy change. Just have the restrictions from class one to five.

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Speaker 1: That they need to agree with your richard and that

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Speaker 1: turns out they don't.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there's a bit of hedging their bets there,

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Speaker 2: sort of trying to keep both industries happy. But at

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Speaker 2: the end of the day, people need to realize without

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Speaker 2: the productive sheep and beef industry, we have less the

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Speaker 2: export income as a country and our imports cost more.

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Speaker 2: So worried about it.

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Speaker 1: Good point is what's happening on farm at the moment.

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Speaker 1: Beef and sheep wise exports money, et cetera. Is that

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Speaker 1: turning the debate? Do you think? Because I mean every

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Speaker 1: man and his dog can see how good this is.

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Speaker 2: Returns are a hell of a lot better on farm.

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Speaker 2: But there's a simple economic reality, Mike that the returns

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Speaker 2: from basically these licenses to pollute, licenses for big coure

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Speaker 2: corporates to pollote through carbon farming, you can never compete

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Speaker 2: with it in a free market. Sheep returns would have

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Speaker 2: to increase exponentially to even compete. And this is a

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Speaker 2: government created market, and we're an unsubsidized farming industry, so

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Speaker 2: it's just not a level playing field.

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Speaker 1: Always good to talk to, you appreciate it, Richard Dawkins,

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Speaker 1: who's with the Fed Farmers.

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