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Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks ed B.

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Speaker 1: Follow this and our Wide Ranger podcasts now on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Straight down the Middle, Try.

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Speaker 1: Get inside the game from every end goal. It's Rugby

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Speaker 1: Direct with Elliott Smith and Liam Navier powered by News

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Speaker 1: Talks EDB.

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Speaker 3: Welcome into Rugby Direct powered by Habit Held Physio book

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Speaker 3: today and stay in the game. Back in the Rugby

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Speaker 3: dit K for another recording. Elliott Smith with me on

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Speaker 3: the line is always is Liam Napier Napes Welcome into

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Speaker 3: Rugby Direct type. You haven't tucked into too many Easter

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Speaker 3: eggs as of yet with the big day just a

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Speaker 3: few days.

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Speaker 4: Away now, not for now, elliotts.

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Speaker 5: But I'll be placing the placing the eggs around the garden,

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Speaker 5: so just awaiting your presence to finalize the hunt.

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Speaker 3: That's right. Well, I've got my Easter budding suit really

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Speaker 3: the go, so you just let me know the time

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Speaker 3: and I'll be read to bounce around and get those

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Speaker 3: chocolate eggs going. Let's get into the podcast. A few

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Speaker 3: Raby issues around to kick into first, also some mail

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Speaker 3: bag stuff as well, but first and foremost a new

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Speaker 3: Hell and Herald colleague Gregor Paul publishing a about five

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Speaker 3: thousand word in depth feature on Artie Savia and how

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Speaker 3: it came to breaking point with him last year in

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Speaker 3: terms of his All Blacks future. Basically at the end,

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Speaker 3: everyone's kissed and made up, but it does paint a

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Speaker 3: picture of a player that was deeply unhappy. What was

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Speaker 3: I guess your reaction to that piece, and I guess

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Speaker 3: some of the things contained inside.

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Speaker 4: It, Yeah, a lot of it's been traversed before.

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Speaker 5: I guess it's a deep dive on the subject that

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Speaker 5: certainly paints the picture that we'd all heard that that

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Speaker 5: Artie was, as you say, deeply unhappy in the All

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Speaker 5: Black's environment. And you know, there are a number of

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Speaker 5: contributing factors to that. Time away from family a big

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Speaker 5: part of it, but also I think from the starts,

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Speaker 5: certainly at the end of the Northern tour last year,

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Speaker 5: Ardi and a whole host of senior players and others

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Speaker 5: were deeply unhappy with that All Black's environment. And I

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Speaker 5: think that that comes to the fore within Gregor's piece

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Speaker 5: as well. That's, you know, a fall's rosy in an

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Speaker 5: All Black environment. That's not something you're going to want

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Speaker 5: to walk away from. You're going to want to make

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Speaker 5: it work. So I think it's a reflection of where

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Speaker 5: that environment was at. But certainly Gregor goes into great

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Speaker 5: detail about how that's been smoothed over and that New

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Speaker 5: Zealand Ragbia is going to retain Ardie severe through to

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Speaker 5: twenty twenty seven. Maybe there'll be a few more breaks

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Speaker 5: because he was physically and mentally exhausted by the end

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Speaker 5: of last year. So potentially he comes back from Japan

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Speaker 5: in May after finishing up with Kobe and maybe skips

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Speaker 5: some of the July series. But I guess that's for

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Speaker 5: Dave Renny to determine as well, and does that effect

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Speaker 5: his potential All Black captaincy. So a lot of water

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Speaker 5: to flow under that bridge yet, but I guess, first

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Speaker 5: and foremost it's great that art. He's going to be retained,

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Speaker 5: but it also paints the picture he was never alone,

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Speaker 5: but it does paint the picture of I think, just

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Speaker 5: how bad they're all blacks environments, certainly the culture and

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Speaker 5: the environment and the unhappiness, the discontent among those senior

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Speaker 5: playing group.

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Speaker 3: Do you think that he was using his frustration with

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Speaker 3: the camp as a cover to get out of his

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Speaker 3: content contract, not you know sort of, I mean playing wise.

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Speaker 3: You know, he signed the contract, he knew what he

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Speaker 3: was getting into. He was given two sabbaticals in this period.

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Speaker 3: Was this you know, talking about workload et cetera, et cetera,

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Speaker 3: and quite unquite easier out for him potentially than you know,

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Speaker 3: getting these issues to bubble to the surface.

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Speaker 5: It's a pretty nuclear extreme mover, isn't it to say?

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Speaker 5: I wan out two years early? And you can certainly

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Speaker 5: understand he's one on Rugby's reluctance to allow him to

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Speaker 5: walk away, given his marketability, given.

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Speaker 4: His popularity and appeal. He's widely regarded as.

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Speaker 5: One of the world's best players, so you're not just

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Speaker 5: going to let him walk away. And I think, look,

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Speaker 5: a player of Artie's caliber could commands a lot more

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Speaker 5: money elsewhere, whether that be in R three sixty, which

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Speaker 5: has gone under for now, but there's been talk about

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Speaker 5: some of the French clubs and the riches that they

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Speaker 5: could table him Artie Spence a couple of seasons now

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Speaker 5: in Kobe. I'm sure they jump at the chance to

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Speaker 5: have him there and in some respects, you know, just

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Speaker 5: aligning with one club in Kobe, earning great money and

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Speaker 5: being able to bring the family up there and then

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Speaker 5: come back home as much easier juggling at than doing

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Speaker 5: that's coming home or.

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Speaker 4: Playing form Wjuana and Auckland.

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Speaker 5: His family's based in Wellington, then traveling the world with

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Speaker 5: the All Blacks. So I can see, you know, perhaps

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Speaker 5: where he was coming from. But it is a very

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Speaker 5: extreme move, isn't it to say I'm going to walk

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Speaker 5: away eighteen months out from a major pinnacle event in

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Speaker 5: the World Cup, and you can understand why. And he's

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Speaker 5: on a rugby We're desperate to find some form of resolution.

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Speaker 3: That's right. Look, he signed the contracts, what was put

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Speaker 3: on in front of him. He got a very generous

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Speaker 3: contract from New Zealand Rugby. There were two sabbatical clauses

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Speaker 3: in there, which is relatively rare. As you say, he

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Speaker 3: could have gone to Koba in the first place and

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Speaker 3: signed a deal and not been available for the All Blacks.

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Speaker 3: So I think he kind of knew what he was

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Speaker 3: getting himself into. A round workload and everything like that.

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Speaker 3: The Hurricanes didn't want to resign him given they weren't

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Speaker 3: going to get him for a long period of this

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Speaker 3: current cycle with the two sabbaticals in there he goes

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Speaker 3: to Mwana and Steers. That means more time away from home.

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Speaker 3: But ultimately, you know, he's responsible along with his agent

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Speaker 3: for putting pen to paper on the contract, so it

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Speaker 3: looked ultimately good to have it tied it up, and

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Speaker 3: in the fact that he is still committed to the

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Speaker 3: All Blacks moving on. And look, I know you'll be

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Speaker 3: upset about this, Liam, but the final game at a

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Speaker 3: Polyoprojec stadium on Friday night seven oh five Crusaders against

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Speaker 3: the Fiji and Drewer it is a chance, I believe

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Speaker 3: for the Crusaders to sign off with their one hundredth

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Speaker 3: win at the ground. But for me, I just can't

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Speaker 3: believe the amount of fan fear that has been going

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Speaker 3: on for this god awful stadium over the last couple

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Speaker 3: of weeks. Look, this has been the longest goodbye in history.

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Speaker 3: It's a stadium that no one likes, that no one

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Speaker 3: has enjoyed going to over the years. And this is

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Speaker 3: coming from me as a Cantabrian you know, who lived

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Speaker 3: in christ through twenty eleven then moved to Auckland. They're

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Speaker 3: eating it on so thick around the stadium that is

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Speaker 3: an absolute dive.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, look, I probably said from a wee bit of

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Speaker 5: a different perspective, Elliott, I think, look, it's served its

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Speaker 5: purposed in it and for a lot of people when

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Speaker 5: when anything comes to an end, there's a lot of nostalgia,

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Speaker 5: a lot of roast into glasses. You think about the success.

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Speaker 5: That's something Crusader's teams have had there. I saw Richid

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Speaker 5: Mwonga put up a post this week about some of

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Speaker 5: his fondest rugby memories have come at that ground. So

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Speaker 5: a lot of success, a lot of memorable moments. But look,

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Speaker 5: from an infrastructure point of view, yeah, it's clearly a dive,

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Speaker 5: but it's served a purpose.

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Speaker 4: It's served a purpose for too long.

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Speaker 5: But I think even the fact that they're searching for

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Speaker 5: their one hundredth whin this weekend speaks to the success

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Speaker 5: that they've had there. And you know that's that can't

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Speaker 5: that can't be lost. But it's going to be a

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Speaker 5: significant upgrade, isn't it. This new statum can't wait to

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Speaker 5: get down there for super Round and so called that up.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's gonna be special and that you know, being

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Speaker 3: a bit tongue in cheeck there, but I think, yeah,

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Speaker 3: this is gonna be a wonderful stadium. It's been far

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Speaker 3: too long. This is supposed to be five years, it's

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Speaker 3: going to be fifteen. By all has all times been

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Speaker 3: said and done around the stadium. So ultimately a good

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Speaker 3: thing for the Crusaders to moveing in and the longes

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Speaker 3: good bye in history can finally be over. Napor's quick

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Speaker 3: one for you. We touched someone on the pod last week.

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Speaker 3: But three games this Easter weekend and look, not a

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Speaker 3: great deal to write home about and to draw a

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Speaker 3: lot of teams on buys this weekend. I'm into minds

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Speaker 3: about this. Look, teams I don't think enjoy having Easter games.

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Speaker 3: They don't get crowds. And we know how much you

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Speaker 3: know New Zealand, and I'm sure this is the same

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Speaker 3: in Australia. But you know, it's three or four months

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Speaker 3: into the year, chants for people to escape the city,

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Speaker 3: go on holidays, et cetera. Really hard to get crowds in.

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Speaker 3: But also you know you've got a visual and eyeballs

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Speaker 3: contest that you're up against, you know, the other sports,

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Speaker 3: but also you know Clicks Disney plus whatever it might be.

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Speaker 3: And even just allowing one weekend to take the handbreak

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Speaker 3: off a little bit. I don't think is a good thing.

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Speaker 3: So what do you make of this super uggy weekend

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Speaker 3: with just three games.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't think it's a great look.

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Speaker 5: I think in a perfect world you'd have a full roster,

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Speaker 5: full slate of games. The draw the eleven team competition

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Speaker 5: leaves leaves the competition short changed and so at some

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Speaker 5: point that's going to bite, and they've chosen to take

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Speaker 5: that hit this weekend. You can look at it up two ways.

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Speaker 5: You can say, look, East is a time of year

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Speaker 5: when people congregate together.

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Speaker 4: There's maybe not a lot else going on.

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Speaker 5: Maybe they'll go to the games, maybe they'll be watching,

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Speaker 5: maybe they'll be searching for it. Maybe you can market

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Speaker 5: it in a certain way I don't know, have an

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Speaker 5: Easter hunt for the kids or something like that. But

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Speaker 5: as you say, historically it's actually been really difficult to

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Speaker 5: get crowds along. So maybe the optics had pointed to

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Speaker 5: them taking the hit this weekends, but you certainly risk

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Speaker 5: losing ground to the NRL the AFL when they've got

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Speaker 5: a full slate of fixtures.

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Speaker 4: Cambinet, you this weekend.

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Speaker 3: You do, and look, I don't think the Easter games

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Speaker 3: have always been you know, blockbusters from a New Zealand perspective,

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Speaker 3: that's when they've often put the dare I say at

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Speaker 3: weeker games, I know there's you know, unless you're around

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Speaker 3: Mowana and certain players obviously, you know, with a very

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Speaker 3: religious weekend this weekend not playing. But I think in

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Speaker 3: some ways you've also got to try and make your

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Speaker 3: own landmarks and make your own history. And you know,

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Speaker 3: why don't you set up something like the Crusaders and

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Speaker 3: Hurricanes or whatever it might be, or Crusaders and Highlanders,

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Speaker 3: you know, always play two thirty five on Good Friday.

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Speaker 3: In one year it's in christ Church, one year it's

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Speaker 3: in Duneed and you alternate between the two and you

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Speaker 3: know that each year is going to be that Easter

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Speaker 3: game and whatever it might be Crusaders Blues. But that

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Speaker 3: is a tradition. I don't think, you know, Rugby has

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Speaker 3: helped itself over the years in terms of setting up

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Speaker 3: these traditions, and they've probably again gone too hard basket

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Speaker 3: leave it for the weekend that was for the weekend

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Speaker 3: that's coming up, rather and just play the three games.

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Speaker 3: So look, we'll see what happens. In the future. I

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Speaker 3: know Jack Measley has talked about, you know, changes and

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Speaker 3: scheduling and things like that, but not easy when you've

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Speaker 3: got all sorts of vested interests across the park. Let's

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Speaker 3: get into some tipping before we dive into the Rugby

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Speaker 3: Direct mail bag. Just three games this weekend, Liam, you

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Speaker 3: have a two point lead after mark to pretty handily

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Speaker 3: for you last week. On our Thursday episode, he got

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Speaker 3: four or five. I got to three of five last week,

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Speaker 3: so you've got twenty five overall. I've got twenty three.

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Speaker 3: Crusaders draw the final game at Apollo Project Stadium. Who wins?

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Speaker 5: Well, you know I love the jurior alias, I do,

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Speaker 5: but I think I think the stadium might actually crumble

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Speaker 5: to the ground if the Crusaders don't win that game.

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Speaker 5: So I suspect they'll win, and I suspect they'll do

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Speaker 5: it pretty handedly.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, agreed on that one. Chiefs Wartaz on Saturday night

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Speaker 3: seven oh five in Hamilton and a live commentary on

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Speaker 3: Gold Sport and iHeartRadio. Of course, look Wartas will we

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Speaker 3: boyed with that win over the Brumbies last week, but

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Speaker 3: it's still hard to see them coming over and beating

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Speaker 3: the Chiefs, even though the Chiefs have been quite disappointing

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Speaker 3: for a couple of weeks.

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Speaker 5: Now you're no d Max for the Chiefs, which is

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Speaker 5: a bit of a setback for Concussion and the Chiefs.

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Speaker 5: But I don't think the warrit has won in New

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Speaker 5: Zealand for maybe even ten years. I've got a terrible

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Speaker 5: record crossing the Tasman. What do they say, one summer

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Speaker 5: doesn't make a swallow or one wind that doesn't make

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Speaker 5: a season. So no, I'll tap the Chiefs and be

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Speaker 5: reasonably confident about that.

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Speaker 3: Okay, Now I'm going to be the same as you

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Speaker 3: and let's Eve can go three from three This week

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Speaker 3: in Reds Force, interesting game, we're going to see Zach

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Speaker 3: Lomax come off the bench for the Force. This is

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Speaker 3: in Brisbane. You fancy the Reds will be too good.

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Speaker 3: The Force can be a little bit tricky, but just

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Speaker 3: don't see them being able to go over there and

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Speaker 3: get the win over the Reds.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Interesting to see Lomax make his diverse expective taking a

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Speaker 5: bit of time. We've seen that with other cross code converts.

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Speaker 5: Maybe they kick to the heavens and try and use

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Speaker 5: him that way.

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Speaker 4: Later in the match.

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Speaker 5: Carter Gordon coming back to start eighteen for the Reds,

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Speaker 5: so I think he'll have a big impact and they'll

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Speaker 5: bounce back from their shellacking to the Hurricanes.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, three from three, we've gone the same, so there

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Speaker 3: won't be too many changes in the points table. You'll

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Speaker 3: maintain at two point leads some way somehow. Off the

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Speaker 3: back of the weekend, let's dive in there to the

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Speaker 3: Rugby deg mailbag and producer Mark has got some questions

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Speaker 3: out of the mail bag for us Killer.

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Speaker 2: Yes, thank you, Elliott and Liam. Greetings to you, probably

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Speaker 2: a quick thank you I expect from you after those

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Speaker 2: picks I did for you last week. You sort of

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Speaker 2: back in the game. Well, a two point lead, isn't it?

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Speaker 5: It is?

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Speaker 2: We take that, Nu, It's all good, All good. Two

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Speaker 2: questions here from Floyd A little bit of a two pointer.

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Speaker 2: I we'll start with that. Gregor. Is interesting article about

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Speaker 2: obviously the RD stuff because I've already sort of given

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Speaker 2: us your general thoughts on it. But an interesting point

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Speaker 2: he makes as if he doesn't sort of play that

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Speaker 2: July series because of being in Japan and resting, would

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Speaker 2: he was obviously going to rule himself out of all

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Speaker 2: Blacks captain. Does do you think that would rule himself

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Speaker 2: out of being captain? Sort of going forward for Dave

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Speaker 2: Rannie side start with you, liamb.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I think it's important to hit the ground running

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Speaker 5: with your captain, to bring the team together and have

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Speaker 5: everyone on deck from the outset. So maybe if he

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Speaker 5: isn't available from the outset, he becomes that fullback guy

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Speaker 5: that he was during Ian Foster's and Scott Robinson's era. Really,

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Speaker 5: when Sam Kane was injured or Scott Barrett was injured,

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Speaker 5: he stepped into that captain See, so I think you

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Speaker 5: want your captain on deck from the outset.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm the same. Look, he needs to be captaining.

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Speaker 3: If he's going to captain, he needs to be playing

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Speaker 3: in that July series. This is the changing of the guard,

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Speaker 3: a forced changing of the guard for the All Blacks.

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Speaker 3: And I don't think you can wade around until one

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Speaker 3: of the tour games against South Africa to have your

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Speaker 3: captain leading the team. I think he's going to be

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Speaker 3: there from the get go. So yeah, I'm the same.

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Speaker 3: I think if he's not captain in July, then you've

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Speaker 3: got to look elsewhere.

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Speaker 2: And a two pointer here from Floyd many over the years,

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Speaker 2: we've always thought sort of ten has been more important

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Speaker 2: than the nine. Do you believe that's kind of changed

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Speaker 2: at the moment with especially we talk so much about

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Speaker 2: on this podcast how incredible Camroy Guard is and the

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Speaker 2: French halfback who sort of led their way as well.

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Speaker 2: Do you think now sort of nine's having this sort

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Speaker 2: of moment in the sun being a little bit more

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Speaker 2: important than the tent. Liam, We'll start with you.

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Speaker 5: I don't think so. I think that their influence has

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Speaker 5: probably grown. But if you think about someone like Aaron

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Speaker 5: Smith and the impact he had on the international game,

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Speaker 5: not so much with his running game, but his speed

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Speaker 5: of pass, his length to pass. He changed the way

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Speaker 5: that the All Blacks played, But then you still had

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Speaker 5: a guy like Dan Carter outside him. And I think

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Speaker 5: we've seen in recent times the All Blacks perhaps struggle

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Speaker 5: with not getting the best from their tens did a

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Speaker 5: serviceable job, but the All Blacks attack wasn't wasn't firing

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Speaker 5: under Scott Robertson. And we've seen the impacts of other

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Speaker 5: tens when they're on form. So I still think the

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Speaker 5: tens of folk Crum, he's your back line director he's

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Speaker 5: you know, guiding you around the park. But I think

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Speaker 5: if you have what we have seen in recent times,

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Speaker 5: I think is the impact a running nine can have

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Speaker 5: and the ability for them to free up the ten,

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Speaker 5: to take pressure off him, to give them extra time

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Speaker 5: and space by being that threat around the ruck. And

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Speaker 5: that's what du Pomp and ken roygab bringing spades.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and if you and far between up though, those

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Speaker 3: those running half backs. I mean there's a lot of

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Speaker 3: running half backs, but the ones that are absolute quality

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Speaker 3: a few and far between, and that's why they are

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Speaker 3: game changes in terms of a rey guard. And to DuPont,

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Speaker 3: you think to the Crusaders and the success they had

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Speaker 3: it for a number of seasons with you know, Brent

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Speaker 3: Hall and Mitchell Drummonds. You know, neither of those two

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Speaker 3: were will go down as great half backs of the game,

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Speaker 3: but they were very serviceable in that Crusader system and

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Speaker 3: allowed Richiem Wonga to do what he did very very well.

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Speaker 3: You know, there's been other examples as well. You think

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Speaker 3: of someone like a Finlay Christie who was instrumental in

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Speaker 3: the Blues a couple of years ago and winning their title.

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Speaker 3: But again you know he's not going to set the

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Speaker 3: world on fire as the running half back. So I

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Speaker 3: think it depends on the half back and also the

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Speaker 3: way that the teams are looking to play. But for me,

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Speaker 3: you know those half backs that we've mentioned there, DuPont

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Speaker 3: and royguards set themselves apart because of the running game.

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Speaker 3: But I still think ultimately the ten is so so

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Speaker 3: vital when it comes to especially international rugby day. Is

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Speaker 3: any more in the mailbag for US Killer this.

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Speaker 2: Week, Yeah, just the one that was from Floyd from

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Speaker 2: Sydney as well. Thanks for emailing in there, Floyd. This

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Speaker 2: is from Dave Paul. This is talking about Monday's episode

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Speaker 2: when we were talking about the Captains of the future

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Speaker 2: All Black Captain. Great episode lads, Jordie captain for him,

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Speaker 2: Artie is and no they Reny won't for for the

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Speaker 2: bad optics of the big review And from Koe Bay however,

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Speaker 2: he is picking Jason Ryan will have a big day

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Speaker 2: and who can mold this team together the best and

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Speaker 2: team import team input will be sought. So this might

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Speaker 2: be Cody Taylor. What are your go thoughts on that?

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Speaker 5: Starting with you Lamb, Yeah, I think Cody Taylor is

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Speaker 5: one of the leading candidates. Him Jordi Ardie and obviously

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Speaker 5: Scott because he's the incumbent.

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Speaker 4: I think.

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Speaker 5: My only concern I think I raised this on them

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Speaker 5: on the Monday podcast around Cody is I would like

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Speaker 5: to see Samsoni, Takyaho and Usfarmore utilize in terms of

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Speaker 5: their impact off the bench. So maybe you're looking at

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Speaker 5: pulling Cody Taylor with half an hour ago and maybe

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Speaker 5: that minimizes his impact as a captain, where someone like

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Speaker 5: Jordi pretty much plays eighty minutes every week. So Dave

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Speaker 5: Rennie has also gone down the co captaincy route previously,

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Speaker 5: so I wouldn't I wouldn't totally rule that option out

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Speaker 5: just here either.

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Speaker 3: Thanks for the letters, guys. There's a couple more in

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Speaker 3: the mailbag we might get to next week as well.

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Speaker 3: But keeping coming Rugby directed a news talk zb dot

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Speaker 3: codo in is it on that Liam on the co captaincy?

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Speaker 3: Could you do something like a starter as captain and

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Speaker 3: a bench captain? You know, I'm thinking perhaps Cody Taylor

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Speaker 3: is the starting captain, but Patrick Thweep a lot too

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Speaker 3: is the nominal co captain or vice captain off the

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Speaker 3: team he comes on leads the bench in the closing stages,

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Speaker 3: but takes on responsibility for the Captaincy wants tayl Leedsville.

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Speaker 3: Could you do something like that or is that just

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Speaker 3: too messy?

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Speaker 4: I think yeah, you're probably over Kampmcanne and Web.

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Speaker 5: I think I'd probably want someone that's been out there,

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Speaker 5: excuse me, that has a feel for the game, that's

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Speaker 5: seen it all. If you're coming off the bench, keep

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Speaker 5: it simple and try to bring that impact. But I

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Speaker 5: think it's important to remember it's not just about one

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Speaker 5: person either. You start the buckstops of them in terms

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Speaker 5: of whether you're kicking for goal or kicking for line,

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Speaker 5: and maybe some strategic things. But there is a leadership

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Speaker 5: group in place as well, and there's nothing wrong with

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Speaker 5: them having a major input on the field. So I

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Speaker 5: think that's where some work needs to be done as well,

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Speaker 5: and I think that's where someone like Tana Umanga could

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Speaker 5: have some real influence, you think for more black captain

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Speaker 5: coming into that group, trying to bring them together and

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Speaker 5: mold that culture and specifically around.

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Speaker 4: That leadership group. Interesting to see what impact he can bring.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely well, they'll do us for another week of rugbe

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Speaker 3: directs Liam, thank you for your time. We'll just have

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Speaker 3: the one episode next week. We're just gonna gorge ourselves

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Speaker 3: a little too much on those chocolate eggs, so we'll

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Speaker 3: probably see a bit later in the week rather than

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Speaker 3: earlier next week, just for the once Lee, have you

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Speaker 3: enjoy your race.

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Speaker 4: To weak Likewise, Elliott gets up there, We'll do.

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Speaker 3: That is right me direct powered by Heaven Health Physio

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Speaker 3: Book today and stay at the game thanks as a

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Speaker 3: ways to produce a Mark Kelly. We'll see.

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Speaker 1: For more from news Talks at b Listen live on

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Speaker 1: air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever

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