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Speaker 1: The Prime Minister is Wether's very good morning to you

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Speaker 1: can be with you now, Rukura. I watched you live

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Speaker 1: as is my want on a Friday afternoon, beaming out

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Speaker 1: next to Taku and co. You've got to stop making

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Speaker 1: announcements on a Friday because you're missing because this is

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Speaker 1: what you guys look for, isn't. It's about growth, investment, success,

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Speaker 1: billions of dollars what could be? And there you were,

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Speaker 1: you know, wasting your time on a Friday. So that beat.

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Speaker 2: Now I work fridays though no I know, but the

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Speaker 2: media types may not, but I am working.

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Speaker 1: The rest of the country don't. But but but let

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Speaker 1: me ask you several questions about it. One, how big

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Speaker 1: do you think it will be? Two? Why is it

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Speaker 1: we don't hear more about that side of the Mari

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Speaker 1: economy and only the bad side of the Marie economy.

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Speaker 2: Well, both questions really good. I mean the first thing

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Speaker 2: is that's exactly what I've been talking to EMIE leaders

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Speaker 2: about now for probably the last year. You know, we

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Speaker 2: want to get on, get money to evolve, get them cracking,

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Speaker 2: get them investing exactly as they're doing there. That's a

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Speaker 2: great story. I mean, that's a billion dollars worth of

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Speaker 2: investment coming into the Waikato. That's you know, there's a

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Speaker 2: big inland port there they can able to expand out

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Speaker 2: that hub that they're building. That's forty five percent of

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Speaker 2: the population of New Zealand, about fifty percent of the

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Speaker 2: GDP tied up that's going through that place, connecting told

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Speaker 2: on A Port with Auckland Port and all the other

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Speaker 2: ancillary bits that are happening as a result. So you know,

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Speaker 2: that's why I invited EWE to the Infrastructure Summit because

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Speaker 2: they are good partners. They've built a lot of commercial

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Speaker 2: saviiness actually over the last thirty years post settlements, and

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Speaker 2: that's exactly what you want, is you want them actually

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Speaker 2: firing up and following the same going for growth plan

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Speaker 2: that we've got as a country happening with EWE as well.

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Speaker 2: So that is the opportunity for us to do that work.

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Speaker 2: But no pretty exciting stuff.

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Speaker 1: Can you explain to us then? Why is it? You

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Speaker 1: look at Toku and Co and Naitahu their water resource

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Speaker 1: case and christ future side successful parts of the Marria economy.

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Speaker 1: Where's all the money gone? Why are there so many

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Speaker 1: mari and deprivation hunger and poverty and all the other issues.

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Speaker 1: Where where's it all gone?

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Speaker 2: Well, actually, that's the nature of the conversations that we've

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Speaker 2: been having, is that you know, they're in the same

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Speaker 2: position that we are in as a country. As you

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Speaker 2: need the economy fired up, you need a bigger economic

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Speaker 2: engine so that you can deal with the issues that

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Speaker 2: you've got socially better public services, health, education, all that stuff,

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Speaker 2: housing and so some of our we obviously are pretty

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Speaker 2: well resourced. Now they've grown their funds. I was even

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Speaker 2: that we was at Rokawa, I was meeting with them

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Speaker 2: last week in Ewee. They got fifty million dollar settlement.

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Speaker 2: Well they've turned that into two hundred and sixty million

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Speaker 2: dollars in a pretty short period of time and they

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Speaker 2: are actually investing that money back in. But that's my

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Speaker 2: conversation with them as well as right, well, what more

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Speaker 2: can we do to get our kids to school? What

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Speaker 2: are we doing to improve maths and reading across the base?

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Speaker 2: What are we doing around health and vaccination outcomes? And

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Speaker 2: those the same conversations we're having at a country level

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Speaker 2: that we need to be having together the government and EWE,

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Speaker 2: and there's good alignment on those conversations frankly behind the scenes.

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Speaker 2: So I'm pretty excited about that.

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Speaker 1: Okay, speaking which related the Sea Lord lost, what are

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Speaker 1: you going to do with them? Sorry the Sea Lord?

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean that'll be a decision for Shane Jones

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Speaker 2: to work through.

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Speaker 1: All he claims the government. So it's Shane Jones Waller government.

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Speaker 2: Well, let's see, let's see. I'm going to let him.

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Speaker 1: I mean, so you can do one of two things.

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Speaker 1: You're either going to write a check who you're going

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Speaker 1: to appeal? So which is I'm not sure. I'm not

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Speaker 1: brief on that. I'll let Shame deal with that first. Okay,

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Speaker 1: over what time frame? Is this pressing or is it

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Speaker 1: you're just going to let it ride? Or because it's

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Speaker 1: a significant loss, I don't understand. Well, you know, you

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Speaker 1: give allocation, they took you to court, you took it

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Speaker 1: away with no compensation. You've lost, so you either think

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Speaker 1: you've lost, you know, illegitimately, so you'll appeal, or you

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Speaker 1: owe somebody some money.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, in fairness, that decision will have to talk through

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Speaker 2: as a cabinet. Shame will lead us through those conversations.

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Speaker 2: We haven't had a chance to got us Mike to

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Speaker 2: talk that.

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Speaker 1: Through Okay, world leaders calls how many have we got anywhere?

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Speaker 1: And is Winston Peters right and saying you're a bit hysterical?

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Speaker 2: I think actually, I don't know whether that's a real

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Speaker 2: media beat up that story, because actually, if you think

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Speaker 2: about what he's actually saying, we're saying the same thing,

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Speaker 2: which is that we've been pretty cool, calm and collected

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Speaker 2: and responding to this thing. I think commentators would admit

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Speaker 2: that my course to leaders are doing exactly the same thing.

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Speaker 2: Where are you at? How are you responding? It's important

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Speaker 2: everyone has cool heads. The second thing is that good

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Speaker 2: conversations because it's like what more can we and should

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Speaker 2: we be doing in a bilateral sense. And the third

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Speaker 2: thing is that I'm making sure that the blocks like

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Speaker 2: the EU and the CPTPP and ACN, what we don't

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Speaker 2: want them doing is tip for tat towers between each other.

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Speaker 2: You know, we want to make sure that they are

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Speaker 2: affirming the rules operating within dispute mechanisms that we've got

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Speaker 2: in place. We don't need the pressure going the other

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Speaker 2: way across the different blocks several and on the US,

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Speaker 2: I just say, look, we've got a positive constructive relationship

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Speaker 2: with the US and we'll continue to do so.

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Speaker 1: Okay, as far as the have you actually made any

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Speaker 1: pro groups though sure of bringing these people up, has

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Speaker 1: anything actually happened?

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Speaker 2: Well, what is happening is you know, to think about

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Speaker 2: my conversations with Singapore, you know, the thought of right, well,

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Speaker 2: what more could Singapore and New Zealand be doing? We

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Speaker 2: have a work plan in place that the Prime Minister

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Speaker 2: and I have been promised to Wong and I've been

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Speaker 2: working through and we both made a commitment. Hey listen,

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Speaker 2: we should get our teams back together again post as

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Speaker 2: election and very quickly with the Australians work out what

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Speaker 2: more could the three countries actually be doing together? How

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Speaker 2: could we accelerate what we're doing. We want to move

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Speaker 2: to what's called a comprehensive strategic partnership. Those are the

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Speaker 2: sort of things that we can do more off See.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that consumes about you ring the

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Speaker 1: EU is the free trade deal. We've got to crap deal.

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Speaker 1: It's nothing like the UK deal or the UAE deal.

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Speaker 1: So are you suddenly turning them into free traders when

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Speaker 1: they're not really free traders?

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Speaker 2: Well, there's no I mean, I saw media report suggesting

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Speaker 2: that the EU it would join CPTPP. They've got twenty

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Speaker 2: seven countries inside there, with a range of views, that

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Speaker 2: would be an absolutely mother of a process to get

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Speaker 2: them to CPTPP. To be honest with you, but what

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to avoid is you've got CPTPP, which is

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Speaker 2: fifteen percent of the global economy. You've got the EU

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Speaker 2: Trading Block, which is another large percentage of the global economy.

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Speaker 2: What you don't want happening is countries within those two

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Speaker 2: blocks actually landing reciprocal tariffs on each other as well.

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Speaker 2: In terms of that's what I'm saying. We don't want

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Speaker 2: trade wars, we don't want tariffs. We don't think that's good.

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Speaker 2: And there are disputes between different blocks and between countries

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Speaker 2: within different blocks, and so you've got to hang on everybody,

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Speaker 2: keep keep calm, follow the rules. If you've got a dispute,

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Speaker 2: don't go off and level a tariff against another country

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Speaker 2: and another block or a block between a block. And

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Speaker 2: so that's the nature of that comment.

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Speaker 1: Just for the records. So Peters wasn't referring to you,

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Speaker 1: you would argue he was referring to general global reactions.

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Speaker 2: Because and That's what I'm saying. I don't sort of

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Speaker 2: understand why the media is beating this thing up.

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Speaker 1: Because because that's what the media does.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but the bottom line is, you know, that's.

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Speaker 1: Why the trust levels at thirty two percent.

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Speaker 2: Well you can say that I wouldn't possibly comment like

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Speaker 2: about your industries are popularity, but I just say, you know,

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Speaker 2: we as a cabin had a good conversation about this

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Speaker 2: right from the get go. Stay calm, stay core about it,

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Speaker 2: Let's work our way through it very, very reasonably maturely.

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Speaker 2: We're doing that. Obviously. Winston's involved, I'm involved, Nicholas involved,

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Speaker 2: you know, Todd McClay, even Judas involved, and the five

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Speaker 2: of us, I think, you know, are all being pretty consistent, calm,

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Speaker 2: keep constructive and positive with the US advanced by lateral

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Speaker 2: relationships where we can. That's the work I've been doing

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Speaker 2: for the last sixteen months. This is the reason I've

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Speaker 2: been out in the world world trying to do this

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Speaker 2: sort of thing. That's why we've been to Vietnam and UAE,

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Speaker 2: and we're going to.

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Speaker 1: The UK and we'll talk about the UK. I'll talk

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Speaker 1: about the UK in a moment. As far as the

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Speaker 1: Chinese is concerned. They reached out to Australia last week

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Speaker 1: and said let's join. Did they reach out to us

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Speaker 1: as well or not?

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Speaker 2: Not that I'm aware of, But I'd just say, you know,

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Speaker 2: we have an independent foreign policy. I act in New

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Speaker 2: Zealand's national interests, of.

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Speaker 1: Course, but could they did suggest somebody suggested they could

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Speaker 1: be part of the CPTPP. Is that possible? Is it

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Speaker 1: more possible now than it was previously?

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Speaker 2: Well, I don't think anything changes with the CPTPP in

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Speaker 2: the sense of that China has applied for membership of

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Speaker 2: the CPTPP, as have a number of other countries. We

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Speaker 2: have what are called the Auckland Principles. So you've actually

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Speaker 2: got to say, are you a good free trader? Have

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Speaker 2: you upheld laws? Do you have consensus from all the

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Speaker 2: other members to come into the agreement?

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Speaker 1: Well they fail on all of that, don't they.

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Speaker 2: Well, but well let's see, but there'll be a number

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Speaker 2: of countries that we have to assess through that sort

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Speaker 2: of lens, because you actually want people who are genuinely

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Speaker 2: committed to free trade and are going to be good

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Speaker 2: traders in that system. So it's not to say that

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Speaker 2: China would or wouldn't be. But the point is there

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Speaker 2: is a process and you have to have that criteria otherwise, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: you sort.

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Speaker 1: Of undermine what we've done the nine billion. I don't

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Speaker 1: think I've asked you this since to God announced the

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Speaker 1: nine billion, the new money for defense.

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Speaker 2: The incremental new money for the next four year.

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Speaker 1: What magic are you pulling out of a hat in

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Speaker 1: the budget to find that you're quite skeptical about our

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Speaker 1: your books and they don't look good. I don't know

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Speaker 1: where you're nine billionaires.

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Speaker 2: No, Look, it is within our fiscal track and all

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Speaker 2: will be revealed. What it means is that we understand

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Speaker 2: what we've committed around livering within our operating allowances, that

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Speaker 2: there's the next few budgets which we understand.

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Speaker 1: How far are you going down your track? How far

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Speaker 1: is your tracked? Is it a fifteen twenty year track?

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Speaker 2: Is it?

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Speaker 1: No?

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Speaker 2: What I just say to you, as we are on

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Speaker 2: track to manage that investment and that commitment with the settings.

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Speaker 1: In a way. You know you're going to have to

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Speaker 1: come here on the Monday after and you're going to

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Speaker 1: go you know, I know that's brilliant.

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Speaker 2: You've actually to do all of that defense spending you've

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Speaker 2: got that, you're financial.

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Speaker 1: God unless you and I hope you can and the

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Speaker 1: decisions a good one, But I just don't know where

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Speaker 1: the nine billion's coming from.

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Speaker 2: Re's assured we think we can manage it within our

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Speaker 2: fiscal settings that we've got. The second thing, as each

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Speaker 2: of those business cases come before the Cabinet to make

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Speaker 2: sure that we're getting good value from them, and we

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Speaker 2: have a formal two year of view because I, frankly,

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Speaker 2: if the economy gets better, I want to be able

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Speaker 2: to tip more money into defense over time. The cool

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Speaker 2: thing about that, Mike, there's actually some amazing New Zealand

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Speaker 2: companies doing some incredible defense.

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Speaker 1: That was the news that came out of it for me.

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Speaker 1: I didn't realize.

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Speaker 2: And there's actually a fledgling defense industry and it's amazing.

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Speaker 2: We've got companies here providing the Brits with kit and

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Speaker 2: equipment that they should be providing with us as well.

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Speaker 2: So it's a good economic thing as well.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Britain, Why what tangibly? I mean, it's always good

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Speaker 1: to go to Britain. Who doesn't like going there? But

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Speaker 1: what tangible is going to come out? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Really, Britain is really a couple of things. One is

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Speaker 2: to first and foremost see the King, which was due

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Speaker 2: to happen last year but it didn't obviously with his

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Speaker 2: health issues. Secondly, to spend time with Kiir Starmer. We'll

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Speaker 2: actually have a good lack of time together to go through.

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Speaker 2: And first of all we're going to go actually see

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Speaker 2: our troops in the south of England that are working

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Speaker 2: with the BRIT's training Ukrainian soldiers. Then we'll have our

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Speaker 2: formal ten Downing Street Bilateral, which is a chance to

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Speaker 2: talk about some of the economic stuff but also the

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Speaker 2: security stuff that's happening in the region but also around

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Speaker 2: the world, and how more we can collaborate the Brits.

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Speaker 2: You know, we're a long way away from each other,

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Speaker 2: but the good historical partners of ours and we want

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Speaker 2: to keep reinventing that one.

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Speaker 1: Well, the good news is I'm not taking your holiday,

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Speaker 1: so I'll be here next week so you can ring me. Am.

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Speaker 1: You said, did I dial in? You did? You were

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Speaker 1: in India so you told you. I said I would.

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Speaker 1: You can dial in from England next week. We'll see

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Speaker 1: you next week? Is it next week? You'll be there.

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Speaker 2: I'll be out on the weekend and then in England

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Speaker 2: and then down to Gallipoli for one hundred and tenth anniversar,

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Speaker 2: which will be pretty special.

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Speaker 1: All right, we'll talk next week. Appreciate it, nice to

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Speaker 1: see you. Thanks for more from the mic Asking Breakfast

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Speaker 1: Listen live to news talks it'd be from six am weekdays,

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