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Speaker 1: Privatization is the hot word of the day and Prime

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Speaker 1: Minister Christopher Luxon has floated taking asset sales and privatization

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Speaker 1: and asset recycling to next year's election to get a mandate.

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Speaker 1: He said this just days after athleader David Seymour suggested

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Speaker 1: the idea during the State of the Nation speech. We're

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Speaker 1: all talking privatization. Treasury has pointed to some government agencies

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Speaker 1: that aren't performing as well as they should. We're looking

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Speaker 1: at UQV and this they could potentially be the first

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Speaker 1: to be sold off. So Infrastructure New Zealand chief executive

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Speaker 1: Nick Leggand joins me now on the program. Hella, Nick, hello,

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Speaker 1: in your opinion, how would the economy benefit from asset sales?

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Speaker 2: Well, how was the country benefit? And I think what

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Speaker 2: we've got to do is take this discussion back at

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Speaker 2: that because it's not just about hawking off assets and

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Speaker 2: running away with the money. It's about what can you

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Speaker 2: sensibly build if you release funds in a different way,

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Speaker 2: and so that whole I think the idea of Asset

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Speaker 2: Partnership's asset recite, where the government takes a look at

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Speaker 2: it all the asset assets it owns and says right,

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Speaker 2: we can release the money here, we could perhaps have

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Speaker 2: a joint ownership with the private sector, and we're going

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Speaker 2: to build a school, a hospital, a light rail or

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Speaker 2: a road. And this is how New Zealander's lives are

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Speaker 2: going to be improved and how the economy is going

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Speaker 2: to be improved for the long term. New South Wales

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Speaker 2: did this. It was taken to the state election I

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Speaker 2: think about twelve years ago and it was sold to

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Speaker 2: the electorate and surprise, surprise, there was actually I don't

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Speaker 2: say that in any sarcastic way, but actually the government,

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Speaker 2: the state government delivered and you're still seeing the benefit

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Speaker 2: of that and the regeneration of Sydney, of regional New

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Speaker 2: South Wales. If you think about the light rail and

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Speaker 2: those really exciting public spaces in central Sydney, associated uplisted

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Speaker 2: housing and other economic improvements. All that happened because the

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Speaker 2: state said, how can we be use our balance sheet

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Speaker 2: for the benefit of social and economic progress. And that's

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Speaker 2: the discussion this country has to have. It's not about

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Speaker 2: this binary yes we should sell or no we shouldn't

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Speaker 2: sell an asset. It's what that improves for people and

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Speaker 2: jobs and growth over the long term and that's the

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Speaker 2: question New Zealand needs to ask itself. We are slipping

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Speaker 2: behind internationally. The amount of money that we earn from

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Speaker 2: exports is pales in comparison to some countries of similar

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Speaker 2: size in the OECD. We know we've got to kick

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Speaker 2: start our education and health systems if we want to

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Speaker 2: retain the kind of country that I think probably people

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Speaker 2: have come to expect. And it's about doing things differently.

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Speaker 1: Okay, and of course everyone goes well overseas capital. But

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Speaker 1: of course there is a possibility of Kiwi Save It

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Speaker 1: or the New Zealand Superfund or any New Zealand EWE groups.

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Speaker 2: Look, this doesn't have to be This is not about

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Speaker 2: a foreign grab. The other point of about it is

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Speaker 2: we have a pitiful reputation and record of managing the

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Speaker 2: assets we actually build and own. Look at roads, look

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Speaker 2: at schools, look at hospitals. When you get some private

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Speaker 2: sector discipline into these assets, you actually improve that long

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Speaker 2: term life because you can build maintenance and renewal into

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Speaker 2: the contracts.

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Speaker 1: The problem, I say, the problem though, Nick, is of

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Speaker 1: course everyone looks at Kiwi Rail where we sold it

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Speaker 1: and then they stripped it and then and then we

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Speaker 1: had to buy it back and they think, well, that's so.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes it's not that private is always perfect. But you know, hey,

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Speaker 1: but he's going with.

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Speaker 2: Your eyes wide open, Andrew, you can build those sort

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Speaker 2: of things and protect the asset and build long term

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Speaker 2: maintenance and prevent assets stripping in the contracts that you're right,

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Speaker 2: these things are you can overcome them. And I just

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Speaker 2: think we need to really ask ourselves the kind of

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Speaker 2: country that we want to build and become. What do

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Speaker 2: we build into wards and then we can decide how

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Speaker 2: we deliver that. Because we can't keep writing checks that

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Speaker 2: the public can't cash. We have to think of different

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Speaker 2: ways of funding things. And it's not about selling everything

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Speaker 2: and building in this way. It's about can we do

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Speaker 2: things better in some areas. And I think a more

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Speaker 2: balanced approach one that where people understand what we're going

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Speaker 2: to actually get, recognizing that when you sell something you've

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Speaker 2: actually still got to service the costs, so it's not

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Speaker 2: this perfect, wonderful world. We have to ask ourselves these questions.

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Speaker 1: Nick, I thank you so much for your time today.

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Speaker 1: Neck is the Infrastructure New Zealand CEO. Remember the government

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Speaker 1: apparently we'll be seeking a mandate in twenty twenty seven,

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Speaker 1: So this is not something that's happening tomorrow. For more

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Speaker 1: from Early Edition with Ryan Bridge, listen live to news

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