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Speaker 1: We've got some more funding for new medicines from Farmac,

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Speaker 1: everything for multiple sclerosis, breast cancer, rine conditions, lung cancer.

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Speaker 1: Potentially if seventeen hundred of US in year one rises

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Speaker 1: to four thousand DISH by a year five. David Seymour

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Speaker 1: is of course the Associate Minister of Health but in

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Speaker 1: charge of FARMAK and is with us. Very good morning,

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Speaker 1: Good morning mate. Broadly speaking, can we say the turnaround

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Speaker 1: of that particular agency has worked? It is working.

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Speaker 2: We've made a lot of changes. We have changed out

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Speaker 2: a lot of the board. Paula Bennett's done a great

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Speaker 2: job as the chair. We have a new chief executive

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Speaker 2: who just started last week. That's Natalie McMurtry. We did

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Speaker 2: a huge global search. She's come out of the Canadian

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Speaker 2: province of Alberta. We've done a big culture review which

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Speaker 2: has revealed a lot of problems. And the next step

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Speaker 2: is to make sure that we are doing really good

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Speaker 2: budget bids, so that instead of Farmac taking the money

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Speaker 2: it has and trying to negotiate within it, we're actually

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Speaker 2: going to the Minister of Finance each year and saying, look,

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Speaker 2: we think if we funded a few more drugs we

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Speaker 2: would be able to save the taxpayer money in other areas,

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Speaker 2: and not to say this will happen, but you look

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Speaker 2: at some of these drugs like a zempic. If we

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Speaker 2: can cut down obesity, that can save huge amounts of

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Speaker 2: money on everything from orthopedic surgery to kidney dialysis. So

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Speaker 2: it's a work in progress, but I'm really proud of

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Speaker 2: the way that Farmac has responded so far, and a

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Speaker 2: lot of people are saying that it's a different organization

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Speaker 2: from eighteen months.

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Speaker 1: Let me come back to the gop ones. In just

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Speaker 1: a couple of moments you mentioned the new CEO. The

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Speaker 1: only reason become interested in this is out of yesterday's

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Speaker 1: Reserve Bank announcement, So your global search does that. I'm

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Speaker 1: just hopeful, that's all. There are people in the world

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Speaker 1: who look at New Zealand and still see it as

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Speaker 1: a good landing spot and they can contribute something positive.

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Speaker 1: Was that fair to say?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Absolutely, And without going into too much detail or

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Speaker 2: being critical of our Canadian friends, I've sat down with

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Speaker 2: Natalie talked about how the job will work for her

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Speaker 2: here in New Zealand, how it's worked for her in

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Speaker 2: the past, and I think that she's going to really

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Speaker 2: be pleased to work in the Farmac environment. No one's

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Speaker 2: denying it had problems. That's why I's keen to take

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Speaker 2: on the job. But you know, our job is to

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Speaker 2: make farm Ac the world leading medical technology assessa. And

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Speaker 2: there'll be more announcements about that just next week. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: I think we can make it a very attractive place.

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Speaker 1: Kiwis can fly good. You talk about, you know, the

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Speaker 1: big picture on gpl ones and stuff like that. How

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Speaker 1: much of what this announcement about is simply savings. You

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Speaker 1: go do a deal with somebody and make it a

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Speaker 1: sharper deal there for instead of spending fifty bucks, you

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Speaker 1: spend thirty five. Take the fifteen, spend it elsewhere.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly what's happening, and it's routine. I'm not here

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Speaker 2: to jump up and down and take the credit for it,

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Speaker 2: but I am here to praise the people do it,

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Speaker 2: because New Zealand would have a lot fewer problems if

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Speaker 2: a few more people just did their job. That's what

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Speaker 2: these people at Farmac do every year. They negotiate really hard.

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Speaker 2: They get better deals. If things come off patent, they say, look,

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Speaker 2: we need a better deal now. If there's an alternative

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Speaker 2: substitute that's cheaper. Sometimes they can negotiate that they're now

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Speaker 2: using the money that they've saved recently to negotiate for

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Speaker 2: five new drugs that are going to help with everything

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Speaker 2: from multiple sclerosis to run cancer, and that I think

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Speaker 2: is just a good example of people doing the job.

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Speaker 2: So if anyone in FARMAC listens to ZBB, I'm sure

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Speaker 2: they do, then you know, thank you. People do appreciate

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Speaker 2: what you're doing.

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Speaker 1: The gpl one thing. So, having followed your rationale since

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Speaker 1: you got to government, which is the idea that if

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Speaker 1: you can spend money now and in the long term

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Speaker 1: do something profound by way of saving surely the gpl

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Speaker 1: one thing is the best global example at the moment.

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Speaker 1: Seems to me to be transformational.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very exciting what's happening with those drugs, and

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Speaker 2: I don't want to start predicting a particular drug because

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Speaker 2: the independence of FARMAC remains absolutely key. What we're trying

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Speaker 2: to do is find a way that FARMAC can make

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Speaker 2: a budget bid to the Minister of Finance and say

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Speaker 2: we will save money if you give us more, but

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Speaker 2: we're not going to tell you exactly which drugs because

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Speaker 2: if they said, yeah, we'll fund a zempic and that's

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Speaker 2: going to save you on hip operations. Then you get

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Speaker 2: back to the Minister of Finance of the day effectively

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Speaker 2: choosing drugs. And then you get campaigns and it's a

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Speaker 2: popularity contest and it's supposed to be about medicine and science.

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Speaker 2: So we're finding a way to do rigorous but blind

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Speaker 2: budget bids and I think we're just about there, so

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Speaker 2: we'll be looking to make such a bid in the

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Speaker 2: budget this year.

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Speaker 1: A couple of things while I've got you willis yesterday,

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Speaker 1: as part of that boardroom thing with a Herald said

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Speaker 1: that if they'd been there by themselves, Nationals been there

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Speaker 1: by themselves, they would have focused less on Maori issues.

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Speaker 1: She cites you in New Zealand first as being the

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Speaker 1: issue around that. What do you say to that, Well, first.

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Speaker 2: Of all, I'm sure that's true. We have driven the

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Speaker 2: agenda for New Zealand to be treated with New Zealanders,

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Speaker 2: to be treated with equal dignity, regardless of their background.

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Speaker 2: I think it's critical that we do that because if

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Speaker 2: I was to say, look, you know what is one

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Speaker 2: of the biggest reasons New Zealand's in a funk. It's

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Speaker 2: because we're a nation of pioneers. We all moved out

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Speaker 2: here for a better life, and yet instead of focusing

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Speaker 2: on what binds us together, we spend far too much

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Speaker 2: time bickering about relatively minor superficial differences. And we can't

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Speaker 2: be set up with a whole legal framework that is

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Speaker 2: based on the differences rather than what we have in common.

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Speaker 2: Has it been difficult to take that on? Yes? Are

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Speaker 2: some people frustrated? Do they say that it's distracting? Yes?

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Speaker 2: Can we succeed while we continue to march down a

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Speaker 2: path off division at a deep constitution level and at

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Speaker 2: every single government department. No, I'm glad we took it on. Yes.

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Speaker 2: Does that show that the coalition has actually been had

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Speaker 2: value added by parties such as acts? Absolutely right?

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Speaker 1: As far as you can explain this to me, are

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Speaker 1: you tomorrow meeting is a cabinet with Peters on zoom

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Speaker 1: from New York, having gathered the information from as many

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Speaker 1: and varied meetings on Palestine, and you will all sit

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Speaker 1: around and have an actual vote on whether to recognize

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Speaker 1: Palestine or not? Or is this just a massive smoke screen?

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Speaker 2: The truth is halfway between certainly not a smoke screen.

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Speaker 2: I'm not aware that there will be a full cabinet meeting,

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Speaker 2: and Cabinet has not voted in the time that I've

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Speaker 2: been a part of it. What cabinet has done is

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Speaker 2: delegated the ability to alter an initial decision to certain

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Speaker 2: ministers if need be. That is very much an open possibility.

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Speaker 2: It's true that Cabinet has the ability to change the

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Speaker 2: decision through the ministers. It's delegated too, and I guess

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Speaker 2: we remain ready for the Prime Minister to call that

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Speaker 2: sort of meeting.

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Speaker 1: Given what I'm assuming he will say Saturday morning. How

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Speaker 1: does it sit with you as a person who stood

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Speaker 1: on the tiles the other day and say, how do

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Speaker 1: you possibly recognize somebody that holds hostages?

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Speaker 2: Well, everybody's expressed that view. I mean, Chris Luxon said

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Speaker 2: a very similar thing on your show on Friday. How

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Speaker 2: I sit with it as a personal thing. Whatever happens,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to be supporting the government position because that's

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Speaker 2: what I signed up for. But let's just see how

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Speaker 2: it goes. I'm looking forward to seeing a sensible announcement

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Speaker 2: from New Zealand, and I think when we get to it,

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Speaker 2: having been the people who have seriously considered all the facts,

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Speaker 2: rather than jumped up and down, perhaps for a bit

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Speaker 2: of political theater, as some other countries may have done.

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Speaker 2: I think New Zealand will be able to hold its yet.

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Speaker 1: High Appreciate your time, David Seymour, Associate Minister of Health,

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Speaker 1: What an excellent insight that was. For more from the

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Speaker 1: Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to news talks it'd be

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