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Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from Newstalks EDB. Follow this

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Speaker 1: and our wide range of podcast now on iHeartRadio, Straight

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Speaker 1: down the Middle, try get inside the game from every angle.

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Speaker 1: It's Rugby Direct with Elliott Smith and Liam Napier, powered

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Speaker 1: by News Talks EDB.

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Speaker 2: Welcome into Rugby Direct, power by Folklib Solutions, lifting you

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Speaker 2: and your business to a higher level. Alligance Smith with me,

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Speaker 2: Liam Napier and Rugby Direct ticks Off and other continents

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Speaker 2: we take North America. Coming to you from the Windy City, Chicago,

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Speaker 2: Liam it it's great to see you in great heavy

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Speaker 2: Becker after a week away from the podcast, and great

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Speaker 2: to be in Chicago, counting down to this Test match

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Speaker 2: this week in All Blacks and Ireland the rematch very much,

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Speaker 2: looking forward to it. Welcome.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, great to be, isn't it in the US of A.

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Speaker 3: We got to an NBA game last night, our Chicago

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Speaker 3: Bulls four and oh that was a great experience. And

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Speaker 3: then on to Soldier Field this weekend. So yeah, let

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Speaker 3: the tour begin.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, just give the balls the championship now, I reckon

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Speaker 2: the way they're playing. Look at let's perhaps just dick

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Speaker 2: into the side's first and foremost that we've got for

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Speaker 2: this weekend and for the All Blacks, not too many surprises.

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Speaker 2: The three injured players that set out in Perth are

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Speaker 2: back in the mix this week, probably not a lot

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Speaker 2: of surprise that they would come back in and what

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Speaker 2: we probably termed surprise selections in Perth. Peter Lukeye at

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Speaker 2: number eight Quinta Pirate thirteen both retain their juicy. So

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Speaker 2: what have you made of Scott Robinson's twenty three for Sunday?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree. I think Boden Barrett's Ethan the Groots

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Speaker 3: and the other captain Clark Cadob Clark were always going

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Speaker 3: to come back. Of those three, I think Caleb Clark

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Speaker 3: could be the most influential because I expect Island to

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Speaker 3: kick a lot and he's the All Black's best aerial asset.

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Speaker 3: He talked today about his stint at the Rabbit O's

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Speaker 3: and what he'd learned from them in terms of his

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Speaker 3: high ball and saying that you know, he welcomes that challenge.

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Speaker 3: He wants them to kick to him. So I think

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Speaker 3: he's a really big in in the context of that,

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Speaker 3: and I think I don't think you could have dropped

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Speaker 3: Quinti Pie on the basis of how he played, not

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Speaker 3: just with his two tries, his direct carrying, he was

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Speaker 3: good defensively against the Wallabies. I expect him to be

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Speaker 3: tested a lot more there he's only had that one

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Speaker 3: Test start at center, but also just the way he

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Speaker 3: freed up Jordi Barrett, I think to play a more

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Speaker 3: natural second five role. That was quite telling and I

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Speaker 3: think number eight is probably the most contestable selection. Peter Lucky.

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Speaker 3: That was his first Test start at number eight Wallace.

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Speaker 3: He hasn't had the heights of last year and I

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Speaker 3: think there's probably a consideration and there around at the

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Speaker 3: bench as well, wanting to get a bit pats there.

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Speaker 3: It is interesting, though, isn't it up what the TC

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Speaker 3: will break through player of the year last year All

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Speaker 3: Blacks Player of the Year. Now he's on the bench.

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Speaker 3: I think Lakeye and c Tt twenty two and twenty

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Speaker 3: three years old, respectively, of the long term future of

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Speaker 3: the loose forwards, but they're currently contesting the same role.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the out look. I think so Tt, as you

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Speaker 2: touched on, has struggled to hit those heights of last year.

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Speaker 2: Those were massive heights that he did hit and he's

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Speaker 2: been injured twice this year, significantly miss most of Super Rugby,

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Speaker 2: came back, played right through to the final, then did

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Speaker 2: his ankle, missed the French series, came back in in Argentina.

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Speaker 2: So he really hasn't played a lot of rugby this

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Speaker 2: year and it kind of feels like, look, he's still

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Speaker 2: got time to make an impact on this tour and

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Speaker 2: he will no doubt start one of the remaining three matches,

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Speaker 2: but it almost feels like not necessarily a right off

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty five for him, but just it's not going

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Speaker 2: to hit the heights of last year. And perhaps with

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Speaker 2: a preseason and with with the Chiefs and which would

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Speaker 2: be essentially his first full Chief Super Rogie preseason because

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Speaker 2: he wasn't a contracted player last year, then he can

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Speaker 2: have the opportunity to just build back in and perhaps

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Speaker 2: have a full year of rugby. I do think that

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Speaker 2: those injuries have taken the toll on him and perhaps

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Speaker 2: getting twenty to thirty minutes of him in a match

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Speaker 2: is perhaps the best of your Blacks canas for at

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Speaker 2: the moment.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and you and I have discussed this that I

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Speaker 3: think we will It'll be results dependent, but we will

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Speaker 3: see a bit of rotation on this tour, tactical rotation,

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Speaker 3: and there's probably not a lot between Satiti and Luckeye

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Speaker 3: and even a leicesterifying and Nuku in a quinta pious,

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Speaker 3: so he could easily interchange those sort of guys and

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Speaker 3: I think we will see that as you look to

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Speaker 3: retain a bit of freshness among the squads. So look

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Speaker 3: on the whole, it was your Blacks team that probably

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Speaker 3: most people would have picked. But Islands have sprung a

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Speaker 3: few surprises. I've got injuries. No Matt Hanson or Hugo

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Speaker 3: Keenan in the back three, No Robbie Henshaw. They've bought

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Speaker 3: Kaylyn Doris, their world class captain back. I don't think

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Speaker 3: he's played since May mister Brish and Irish Lions tour,

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Speaker 3: so he's coming back off the bench. But yeah, they've

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Speaker 3: sprung a couple of surprises.

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Speaker 2: But have here still McCloskey starting at second five, which

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Speaker 2: is a bit of a surprise because as you mentioned,

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Speaker 2: they've got a couple of injuries there, but you would

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Speaker 2: have thought maybe Aki and Ringrose would be the starting midfield.

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Speaker 2: Ring Row starts at thirteen as it is, but mcloskey's

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Speaker 2: kind of a almost a what if player that he's

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Speaker 2: been around for a number of years now. He's a

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Speaker 2: big body, so he's going to come up against that

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Speaker 2: All Blacks midfield, but perhaps has been underutilized just for

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Speaker 2: the fact that they have had Henshaw, Ring Rows and

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Speaker 2: r QI for a number of years now that he

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Speaker 2: hasn't had too many cracks where he gets a big

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Speaker 2: opportunity this weekend against the All Blacks and running into

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Speaker 2: that All Blacks midfield of Jordi Barrett and Quinte Pye,

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Speaker 2: chance for him to really state his case. He's on

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Speaker 2: the other side of thirty now and probably him you know,

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Speaker 2: a performance that are we wanted to put in and

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Speaker 2: could put him in the stead a number two years

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Speaker 2: away from World Cup, but you know, kind of a

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Speaker 2: make or break performance. So it's a really interesting selection

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Speaker 2: there from Andy Farrell. He has also gone on the wings,

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Speaker 2: predictably James Low and then Tommy O'Brien, who we don't

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Speaker 2: know a lot about, debut during the summer series that

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Speaker 2: Ireland played but not a familiar name to certainly New Zealanders,

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Speaker 2: so we'll see how he goes on the right wing.

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Speaker 2: But equally probably Leroy Card is a bit of an

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Speaker 2: unknown quantity to this Irish side. What do you expect

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Speaker 2: from the Irish side? For me, you know, it's been

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Speaker 2: a year since I've actually had you know, personnel in

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Speaker 2: all the places that they want them to be, with

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Speaker 2: Andy Farrell standing down for the Six Nations, for the Lions,

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Speaker 2: and you know, a couple of injuries and everything like that.

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Speaker 2: So they're coming in cold, I think to this series,

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Speaker 2: and they've got a big program coming up over the

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Speaker 2: next few weeks. So what do we expect from Ireland?

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Speaker 2: Do we expect the same team that has held the

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Speaker 2: All Blacks to a five and five record over the

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Speaker 2: last ten matches.

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Speaker 3: I think there's big question marks over both teams. If

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Speaker 3: we start with the Elans. Look, they were the best

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Speaker 3: team in the world for probably two years leading into

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Speaker 3: the twenty twenty three World Cup and then didn't take

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Speaker 3: that chance the All Blacks winning that quarterfinal and consigning

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Speaker 3: Ireland to more heartbreak there. And I think since they've

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Speaker 3: had some retirements and I think we've seen them wayanne

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Speaker 3: and there are question marks over the age profile of

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Speaker 3: this team. A lot of those players have been around

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Speaker 3: a long time, particularly when you cast ahead to the

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Speaker 3: next World Cup, and yeah, they've had some disruption with

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Speaker 3: Andy Farrell not being there. They haven't played together since March,

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Speaker 3: and there's six nations. They slumped from first to third,

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Speaker 3: so that's probably a reflection of where they're at. I

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Speaker 3: think you could say they're not the team they were.

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Speaker 3: That's not to say they can't turn up this weekend

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Speaker 3: and knock over the All Blacks, because the All Blacks

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Speaker 3: have been inherently inconsistent and unconvincing. I only put it

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Speaker 3: together against the Wallabies. But it's a big task, isn't it,

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Speaker 3: coming out in and playing your first test as a

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Speaker 3: team since March. Look that they have had players play.

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Speaker 3: They had fifteen sixteen on the Lions tour. Andy Farrell

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Speaker 3: Knowso's players well and they have looked to counter that

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Speaker 3: by coming out to Chicago last Tuesday, so they would

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Speaker 3: have been here by the time they played the match

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Speaker 3: almost two weeks. They had an internal hitouts, so they're

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Speaker 3: not coming in completely cold. But you can't really replicate

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Speaker 3: a test match. So I think we saw last November

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Speaker 3: a refection of what can happen when you come in

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Speaker 3: Cold Island were poor, not only as a team but

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Speaker 3: Jack Crowley had a poor match and some of the

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Speaker 3: individual skills went up to scratch and that's probably because

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Speaker 3: they were rusty. So they all blacks are nine tests

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Speaker 3: into the year. I think that is a significant advantage.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well you've mentioned the internal hitout. They're also largely

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Speaker 2: played each other lens to the months to two or

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Speaker 2: three weeks back in the UC and months sitting Lenster

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Speaker 2: coach now by Clayton Millan, of course, and so they've

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Speaker 2: had games against each other. But in terms of that cohesiveness,

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Speaker 2: and you know a lot of players in this team,

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Speaker 2: largely from Lenster. I think six out of the sorry

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Speaker 2: seven out of the eight starting pack are So there's

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Speaker 2: a consistency there in Nate because they just play for

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Speaker 2: the one club. So it's mentioning to see how they

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Speaker 2: quickly they can pack up and whether they can hit

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Speaker 2: those heights again. Of you know the couple of years

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Speaker 2: before the World Cup twenty twenty two to twenty three

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Speaker 2: when they were, as you said, the best team in

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Speaker 2: the world. You look at that team though, with Kaylin

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Speaker 2: Dollars coming off the bench, you know, a loose ward

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Speaker 2: treo that has Conan and Vonderfleer and Ryan Beard very

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Speaker 2: very good makeup beer Funderfleer I think underplayed on the

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Speaker 2: lines too massively this year. So you know they are

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Speaker 2: a team. And then the question marker probably have is

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Speaker 2: at ten around Jack Crowley who obviously you know they

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Speaker 2: head Johnny Sixton, who was a generational player for them.

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Speaker 2: And this happens when you have a playler that retire,

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Speaker 2: you struggle to land on the right player to replace

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Speaker 2: some Prendigas's haw to crack. Crowley's had to crack as well.

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Speaker 2: But you know, he gets an opportunity this week to

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Speaker 2: similar to McCloskey, you know, steak his clase for why

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Speaker 2: he should be part of this Irish team moving forward.

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Speaker 2: So from that perspective, it's really fascinating to say where

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Speaker 2: they go to not only this weekend, but over the

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Speaker 2: next few weeks.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right, and he Crowley wins that race with

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Speaker 3: Priente Gas on the basis of that. Well, not solely,

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Speaker 3: but certainly a big stake in the ground for him

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Speaker 3: was Monster's form and his performance in that match, Monster

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Speaker 3: dominating Leinster. So if you go back to last November,

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Speaker 3: the performance against the All Blacks, Costumer's position, he was

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Speaker 3: meant to be the heir apparents and didn't take his chance.

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Speaker 3: So this is a big stage for him. Andy Farrell's

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Speaker 3: given him the nods and he needs to take it.

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Speaker 3: Just just on the flip side with the All Blacks.

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Speaker 3: Want your assessment here Razor today we heard from him

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Speaker 3: and for me, he was decidedly nervous. He almost to

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Speaker 3: the point looks a bit rattled. I think he's starting

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Speaker 3: to feel the pressure and perhaps that's the reflection of

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Speaker 3: what's happened behind closed doors with the Jason Holland situation.

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Speaker 3: But clearly this is a big tour for the All Blacks,

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Speaker 3: you know, the Grand Slam significance of its chasing it

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Speaker 3: for the first time in fifteen years. But there's a

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Speaker 3: lot at stake here for the All Blacks, and outwardly

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Speaker 3: Razor didn't look comfortable to me. How important set the

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Speaker 3: scene here? How important is this tour for Razer's tenure.

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Speaker 2: I think it's very important to set things up for

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Speaker 2: the summer, for the narrative that the All Blacks go

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Speaker 2: into twenty twenty six with the greatest rivalry tour, with

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Speaker 2: the World Cup two years on the horizon. I think

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Speaker 2: it is vitally important. Now, even if they don't win

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Speaker 2: the Grand Slam, they can still come out of this

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Speaker 2: tour with the respectable you know, if they win three

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Speaker 2: lose one, say they lose to England or Ireland, then

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Speaker 2: you know that's the respectableness to it, depending on the

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Speaker 2: nature of the losses. But if they lose at the

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Speaker 2: first hurdle and the Grand slams gone, that is a

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Speaker 2: storyline in itself. And yeah, it's one thing not to

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Speaker 2: get the Grand Slam at all, but it's another to

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Speaker 2: you know, lose at the first turtle, which could very

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Speaker 2: well happen on Sunday morning, New Zealand time. So I

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Speaker 2: think there's an edge to it. And I think also

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Speaker 2: there's a bit of you know, probably residue from the

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Speaker 2: twenty sixteen match here. And while not a lot of

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Speaker 2: players were there on that occasion that are currently in

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Speaker 2: the all black setup, Scott Barrett day Boo that afternoon,

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Speaker 2: Ardisa the year was there, but Barrett was around. I

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Speaker 2: think it might have been one other potentially as well.

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Speaker 2: Management wise, a lot of it's changed, but that you know,

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Speaker 2: it's a loss, they get reminded about a lot because

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Speaker 2: it changed the tide of the rivalry. It was Ireland's

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Speaker 2: first when obviously, so I think there's an under standable

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Speaker 2: nervousness to Scott Robinson, but also the players and stuff

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Speaker 2: is that they you know that they want desperately to

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Speaker 2: win the Grand Slam, but also don't want it to

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Speaker 2: evaporate at the first hurdle because then they have to

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Speaker 2: trudge off to the UK playing a very good Scottish

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Speaker 2: team and it could unravel pretty quickly. So I think

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Speaker 2: there's a tenseness and nervousness in camp. That was my

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Speaker 2: first opportunity to be around them today. Whether that can

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Speaker 2: translate sometimes nervousness can you translate into a result. But

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Speaker 2: I agree that there's a sense there that you know

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Speaker 2: that not necessarily under siege the All Blacks, but they

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Speaker 2: do need to deliver and and haven't been able to

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Speaker 2: do that to this point. And Islands had the better

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Speaker 2: of them, even though it's a five to five record,

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Speaker 2: and even though the All Blacks had won those big

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Speaker 2: matches over that ten year as her ten game thing,

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Speaker 2: it feels like because Islands come from nowhere in this rivalry,

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Speaker 2: with all due respect to now winning five and five,

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Speaker 2: they've got the upper hand even though it's a fairly

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Speaker 2: even rivalry if you follow them adrift.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that the precious queely on the All

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Speaker 3: Blacks this week. That's the way it feels. Maybe that's

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Speaker 3: just a lens with which we've looked view it through.

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Speaker 3: I think you can make it case the All Blacks

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Speaker 3: have the upper hands that maybe they've figured Island Alowe

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Speaker 3: bit in their structures because they've won the last two.

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Speaker 3: That can easily change. But the context also you mentioned

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Speaker 3: there about twenty sixteen. It's nine years. It's a lifetime.

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Speaker 3: But lessons have been learned, I think, and this week

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Speaker 3: there's been a few examples. So one of the big

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Speaker 3: lessons from that time was Bill Black's doing too much

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Speaker 3: outside of the rugby sphere. They got swept up in

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Speaker 3: the Cubs winning their breaking their one hundred and eight

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Speaker 3: year baseball droughts. They did a lot commercially, and while

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Speaker 3: that has still happened this week, one example was zill

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Speaker 3: Blacks went to a Chicago Bulls match while they arrived

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Speaker 3: first and foremost last Friday, and so they've front loaded

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Speaker 3: been able to do those sort of things before dialing

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Speaker 3: in on the rugby. But they went to a Chicago

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Speaker 3: Bulls match and they had to actually leave before the finish.

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Speaker 3: So they're at the game, they're watching it and it's

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Speaker 3: just starting to get interesting. They had to leave because

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Speaker 3: they were worried about traffic and they had a curfew.

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Speaker 2: So I'd never do that to my balls.

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Speaker 3: So there's one example though of I guess the tension

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Speaker 3: around to a degree, but also the lessons learned from

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Speaker 3: twenty sixteen and that the focus on rugby. You know,

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Speaker 3: it's easy to get swept up in a big city,

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Speaker 3: being in the States, there's a lot to do, a

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Speaker 3: lot to see potentially, but the All Blacks are very

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Speaker 3: focused on Ireland, are very focused on this Grand Slam.

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Speaker 3: And you're right, tension and pressure and nervous energy can

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Speaker 3: results can bubble away into a good performance. But in

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Speaker 3: the context of Scott Robertson's tenure, in the context of

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Speaker 3: you know, another All Blacks assistant coach walking away at

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Speaker 3: the end of the year, it's very important to grab

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Speaker 3: hold of that narrative and to put some positive results

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Speaker 3: for to control that.

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Speaker 2: What do you expect Do you expect Bill Boks to win?

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Speaker 2: On Sunday morning, New zeal.

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Speaker 3: On Time, I do, yes, and look, that's in large

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Speaker 3: parts because of what we talked about with the contrasting

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Speaker 3: preparations all next nine tests into the year. They should

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Speaker 3: have a bit of rhythm, a bit of flow. They

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Speaker 3: should be on the same page strategically. They have a

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Speaker 3: settled team, you know. Yes, they must seem to provide

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Speaker 3: and Patrick two pilot and tyre O Lomax, but everyone

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Speaker 3: could have predicted this team, so are very clear about

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Speaker 3: what they want to do about their personnel. And yeah,

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Speaker 3: I think they should be in some form. They've just

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Speaker 3: the Wallabies aren'ts the top of the tree of world rugby,

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Speaker 3: but they've strung back to back to performances together. There

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Speaker 3: should be a bit of confidence there where Islands I

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Speaker 3: think have more hurdles to overcome. So look, I expect

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Speaker 3: it to be tight, tense, but I do expect the

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Speaker 3: All Blacks toin.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think they will as well. But I expect

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Speaker 2: a one score sort of school line. And that's probably

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Speaker 2: reflective of most of the games between these two sides

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Speaker 2: over the last ten games. Give or take a couple

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Speaker 2: of blowouts on either side, but by and large this

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Speaker 2: has been a really close rivalry. It's interesting as well

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Speaker 2: been doing a couple of crosses back home, we talk

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Speaker 2: about that that fact are being swept up in Chicago.

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Speaker 2: You don't sell out sixty thousand seats by accident, and

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Speaker 2: there are some advertising hoardings of the game. The lamp

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Speaker 2: post flags along one of the couple of big avenues

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Speaker 2: here in Chicago. But getting cut through is interesting as well.

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Speaker 2: We're at the media conference today. I think who won

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Speaker 2: an American accent there. I'm not sure where that reporter was from,

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Speaker 2: but it was very much New Zealand journalists and the

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Speaker 2: Irish journalists there covering get as we would if the

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Speaker 2: game was an Auckland or whether it was in Dublin.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, it's hard to knock off the local sports

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Speaker 2: off the front page. But you know, they're doing their

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Speaker 2: best to try and get that commercial side of things in.

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Speaker 2: I know they've been doing few local TV appearances and

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Speaker 2: that sort of thing and pressing the flesh that way.

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Speaker 2: But in a big city like Chicago, it's sort of

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Speaker 2: hard to get that everyone's talking factor around the city.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's true of Tokyo or London, even

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Speaker 3: any big city. There's so much more happening in the world,

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Speaker 3: but even just down the street here the Hilton Hotel.

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Speaker 3: Outside they've got the American, the Irish and the New

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Speaker 3: Zealand flags flying. And yeah, I was even surprised, to

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Speaker 3: be honest, to see a few posters on South Michigan

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Speaker 3: Avenue where we're staying. But yeah, even little things like

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Speaker 3: the Alblecks. Chrainer went out on Tuesday to the University

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Speaker 3: of Illinois and the pitch the All Blacks training on

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Speaker 3: was pretty pretty ropey. It was sloping and the posts

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Speaker 3: looked like something out of Under seven's rugby. They were tiny,

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Speaker 3: So yeah, just the I guess the facilities and these

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Speaker 3: sorts of things that they used to probably down the

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Speaker 3: pecking order, but look they did get cut through. They

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Speaker 3: went to the Chicago Bulls. They had a bit of

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Speaker 3: an interchange with Josh Gillies, the Australian. Pretty interesting making

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Speaker 3: the Australian hold the All Blacks jersey. But yeah, there

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Speaker 3: was a bit of publicity there. The Irish team were

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Speaker 3: there last night. When we were there. I think the

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Speaker 3: All Blacks went along on the day off. Some of

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Speaker 3: them had a shoot around it. What's it called United Center,

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Speaker 3: So yeah, a bit of to and fro in terms

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Speaker 3: of some cut through. In terms of the makeup of

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Speaker 3: the crowd this weekend, we expected to be very pro

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Speaker 3: Irish sough, don't we. I think there's quite a big

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Speaker 3: Irish population here potentially, and from talking to the Irish

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Speaker 3: journos a number of their traveling fans coming out, so

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Speaker 3: I think there'd be plenty of Green amongst six sixty

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Speaker 3: three thousand at Soldier Field.

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Speaker 2: Which Icigo River has been died green. I think most

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Speaker 2: of Patrick's days for last week, I think, yeah, just

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Speaker 2: a whole bunch of die gets thrown into that river.

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Speaker 2: So it's got Irish roots the city, and no doubt

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Speaker 2: they'll be out numbering the All Blacks. But I had

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Speaker 2: a couple of New Zealanders on the plane coming over,

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Speaker 2: and so there'll be a few k since in the crowd.

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Speaker 1: This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fares.

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Speaker 2: Every try try ten sixty sec, every tackle, tackles, get

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Speaker 2: up again, well take him before.

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Speaker 1: After times Rugby Direct.

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Speaker 2: Changed text slightly. We didn't react to this last week.

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Speaker 2: It was after a recorder, but Jason Holland and we

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Speaker 2: alluded to earlier in the podcast leaving his post at

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Speaker 2: the end of this tour it's been out for obviously

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Speaker 2: a week now, but what do you make of that

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Speaker 2: news and where did the all bles go to from

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Speaker 2: here once they get into off season mode?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's a bad reflection as a second

395
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Speaker 3: assistant coach, the second original member of Scott Robinson's coaching

396
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Speaker 3: team to leave walk away, and he had a long

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Speaker 3: time to prepare and those were always going to be

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Speaker 3: as men He's worked for them previously as a long

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Speaker 3: standing relationship with Jason Hollands. I don't know definitively, but

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Speaker 3: I've heard a lot about they've been a very close

401
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Speaker 3: shop between Jason Ryan, Scott Robinson, and Scott Hansen, to

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Speaker 3: the point that some selections haven't even been conveyed beyond

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Speaker 3: that tight circle. And now last year it was the

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Speaker 3: whole group selecting the team, wasn't it, And that's been

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Speaker 3: refined this year to those three guys. I think Jason

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Speaker 3: Holland's titles as strike coach is a bit limiting as well.

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Speaker 3: You know how much cut through is he actually getting

408
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Speaker 3: in terms of the attack attack portfolio? Does he just

409
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Speaker 3: get a bit of Sayer off the scrumb and line out?

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Speaker 3: Is that really utilizing his talent? Is it enough to

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Speaker 3: keep him satisfied? Maybe he's there's a bit of frustrations there,

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Speaker 3: So I think he's probably been shut out of the

413
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Speaker 3: main decision making. But I think they will have to

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Speaker 3: have to replace him, you know.

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Speaker 2: What, say you, I think it could well be time

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Speaker 2: for a little bit of a restructure. And obviously we

417
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Speaker 2: don't know internally how this plays out, but from the

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Speaker 2: external side of things, the structure that they're running is confusing,

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Speaker 2: and who looks after what has been confusing and time.

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Speaker 2: I mean, we know that Jason Ryan looks after the forwards,

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Speaker 2: that Timo d Ellison's responsible to the defense, but how

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Speaker 2: the delineation of Scott Hanson's role works for essentially, how

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Speaker 2: Jason Holland's role has worked and what exactly, as you

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Speaker 2: said before, his say works has been unclear. You know,

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Speaker 2: Scott Robinson's the overarching coach, but what does he delegate

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Speaker 2: down to Hanson and co So this may be and

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Speaker 2: maybe you know, this may be an opportunity to restructure

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Speaker 2: the coaching team and the roles and the division of

429
00:23:26,133 --> 00:23:29,853
Speaker 2: labor between some of these Play Pooh people, and then

430
00:23:29,933 --> 00:23:32,613
Speaker 2: that may burn up an opportunity to go external and

431
00:23:32,613 --> 00:23:35,173
Speaker 2: figure out how you replace Jason Holland. If you replace

432
00:23:35,773 --> 00:23:38,613
Speaker 2: Jason Holland, I'm not sure if it's too many cooks

433
00:23:38,693 --> 00:23:42,093
Speaker 2: in the kitchen with the number of coaches that they've got,

434
00:23:42,133 --> 00:23:45,053
Speaker 2: or whether it's too many cooks not having enough to

435
00:23:45,093 --> 00:23:47,773
Speaker 2: do in the kitchen and couple having too much to do.

436
00:23:47,933 --> 00:23:51,373
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, we've also spoken at least a month ago,

437
00:23:51,413 --> 00:23:53,973
Speaker 3: I think, during the Rugby Championship about the lack of

438
00:23:54,013 --> 00:23:57,653
Speaker 3: test experience and also the lack I think of discerning

439
00:23:59,053 --> 00:24:05,773
Speaker 3: challenging voices. So those three core coaches have worked together

440
00:24:05,773 --> 00:24:11,093
Speaker 3: a lot at the Crusaders. How much how many competing

441
00:24:11,133 --> 00:24:13,413
Speaker 3: ideas you know, if you think about previous all black

442
00:24:13,413 --> 00:24:17,053
Speaker 3: coaching teams. I saw Mike cron talking about this this week.

443
00:24:17,093 --> 00:24:21,173
Speaker 3: There was a lot of disagree and commit so a

444
00:24:21,173 --> 00:24:26,453
Speaker 3: lot of heads bucking essentially, But that's very healthy, I think,

445
00:24:26,533 --> 00:24:30,773
Speaker 3: to have debates. How much of that is happening when

446
00:24:30,813 --> 00:24:32,693
Speaker 3: you've worked together for such a long time, when you

447
00:24:32,733 --> 00:24:34,973
Speaker 3: know each other well, when you're probably on the same

448
00:24:35,013 --> 00:24:39,413
Speaker 3: page from from a you know, a former Crusaders point

449
00:24:39,453 --> 00:24:42,653
Speaker 3: of view. So if there is a change, I would

450
00:24:42,733 --> 00:24:47,693
Speaker 3: like to see it be an established figure, someone from

451
00:24:47,853 --> 00:24:50,053
Speaker 3: from outside the Crusaders, because when you're looking at a

452
00:24:50,173 --> 00:24:52,773
Speaker 3: Tommody Ellison as well, there's probably a lot of like

453
00:24:52,853 --> 00:24:55,613
Speaker 3: for like in that in that coaching group.

454
00:24:55,933 --> 00:25:00,013
Speaker 2: There is I would actually like to go international. I

455
00:25:00,013 --> 00:25:02,173
Speaker 2: think that could be really valuable for the All Blacks,

456
00:25:03,333 --> 00:25:06,533
Speaker 2: just to do what you say as well, that that pushback,

457
00:25:06,613 --> 00:25:09,613
Speaker 2: that that different voice, that different ide is that maybe

458
00:25:09,653 --> 00:25:11,133
Speaker 2: not all of them work, but they at least they're

459
00:25:11,133 --> 00:25:14,093
Speaker 2: at the table, they're thrown up and they're considered by

460
00:25:14,613 --> 00:25:16,973
Speaker 2: the coaching staff, and I think that would be really valuable.

461
00:25:17,813 --> 00:25:19,493
Speaker 2: I don't have an answer as to who. I don't

462
00:25:19,533 --> 00:25:21,893
Speaker 2: have a name, but I think you look at the

463
00:25:21,893 --> 00:25:25,373
Speaker 2: spring box and what Russia Rasmus has been able to do.

464
00:25:25,373 --> 00:25:28,773
Speaker 2: It's almost the United Nations of coaching. He's got so

465
00:25:28,853 --> 00:25:32,293
Speaker 2: many boxes. I use this and the nicest possible way,

466
00:25:32,293 --> 00:25:34,253
Speaker 2: but box has ticked off. He's got a New Zealand perspective,

467
00:25:34,253 --> 00:25:36,813
Speaker 2: he's got an Irish perspective. He's got one daily stick

468
00:25:36,813 --> 00:25:40,853
Speaker 2: who offers the perspective of his players. And you know,

469
00:25:41,173 --> 00:25:44,973
Speaker 2: Russia Rasmus oversees the operation. They've got another you know referee,

470
00:25:45,053 --> 00:25:48,493
Speaker 2: we're referee Dwayne Vermullin and and then you know he's

471
00:25:48,493 --> 00:25:50,573
Speaker 2: just come out of you know, basically retired what just

472
00:25:50,613 --> 00:25:55,253
Speaker 2: over a year ago. So and that all works together.

473
00:25:55,333 --> 00:25:57,253
Speaker 2: So I don't know, there's too many shifts in the

474
00:25:57,293 --> 00:25:59,013
Speaker 2: kitchen for the All Blacks, but it's the right shifts

475
00:25:59,013 --> 00:26:01,973
Speaker 2: in the right places and coming together to create the dish.

476
00:26:02,013 --> 00:26:04,853
Speaker 2: To keep using that analogy. So I don't know who's

477
00:26:04,853 --> 00:26:07,213
Speaker 2: out there. You know, Ron Reguara has worked with Scott

478
00:26:07,293 --> 00:26:10,653
Speaker 2: Robertson before. He's a very lust job at Lar Rochelle.

479
00:26:11,653 --> 00:26:14,133
Speaker 2: Maybe he's an option. You just don't know what exit

480
00:26:14,133 --> 00:26:16,813
Speaker 2: clauses people have in contracts at what interests them, whether

481
00:26:16,813 --> 00:26:19,293
Speaker 2: they're able to break their contract for an international gig,

482
00:26:19,333 --> 00:26:21,973
Speaker 2: whatever it might be. But I think this is the

483
00:26:22,013 --> 00:26:24,933
Speaker 2: time to think big and look at the you know,

484
00:26:24,973 --> 00:26:26,453
Speaker 2: the wider All Blacks operation.

485
00:26:26,853 --> 00:26:32,413
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's very common amongst world coaching teams. Andrew Goodman's

486
00:26:32,413 --> 00:26:36,333
Speaker 3: with Ireland. I think Andrew Strawbridge, New Zealander again is

487
00:26:36,373 --> 00:26:40,173
Speaker 3: with England. You mentioned Tony Brown there, so you know,

488
00:26:40,173 --> 00:26:43,373
Speaker 3: it's a bit like you say, United Nations like, so, yeah,

489
00:26:43,493 --> 00:26:48,053
Speaker 3: maybe we shouldn't be so roast into glasses and look

490
00:26:48,093 --> 00:26:50,093
Speaker 3: outside the square a little bit. The only other point

491
00:26:50,133 --> 00:26:53,733
Speaker 3: I would make on this is it was concerning, maybe

492
00:26:53,773 --> 00:26:57,133
Speaker 3: telling to see guys like Cody Taylor come out and say, yeah,

493
00:26:57,173 --> 00:27:00,173
Speaker 3: I was a bit blindsided by the news. So that

494
00:27:00,293 --> 00:27:04,053
Speaker 3: to me suggests that something has happened in recent times

495
00:27:04,093 --> 00:27:07,093
Speaker 3: to bring this to a head. I know Jason Rahme

496
00:27:07,173 --> 00:27:09,413
Speaker 3: was only contract to the to the end of this year,

497
00:27:09,893 --> 00:27:14,373
Speaker 3: and maybe the fact that he's staying on suggests that

498
00:27:14,693 --> 00:27:18,253
Speaker 3: it wasn't a huge issue. But my read on it

499
00:27:18,333 --> 00:27:20,493
Speaker 3: is that he's just been frozen out. He's a bit frustrated.

500
00:27:21,733 --> 00:27:24,053
Speaker 3: So yeah, I think it's unfortunate. I think it's a

501
00:27:24,093 --> 00:27:28,533
Speaker 3: bad look for Raser given how long he had to plan,

502
00:27:29,053 --> 00:27:32,413
Speaker 3: and it's also probably a reflection of the pressure of

503
00:27:32,453 --> 00:27:35,293
Speaker 3: their realities. He wanted this gig for such a long time,

504
00:27:35,853 --> 00:27:38,853
Speaker 3: but it is a lot different when you're walking through

505
00:27:38,893 --> 00:27:41,573
Speaker 3: that fire and in the hot seat. It's a very

506
00:27:41,573 --> 00:27:44,853
Speaker 3: different world. So it's probably a reflection of all that

507
00:27:44,933 --> 00:27:45,493
Speaker 3: melting pot.

508
00:27:45,813 --> 00:27:49,333
Speaker 2: It certainly is all right, Well that about do us

509
00:27:49,373 --> 00:27:54,693
Speaker 2: for Rugby Directs in Chicago. Twenty seven minutes into the podcast,

510
00:27:54,773 --> 00:27:58,493
Speaker 2: in time to mention that Canterbury won the NPC.

511
00:27:59,013 --> 00:27:59,853
Speaker 3: He almost got there.

512
00:28:00,733 --> 00:28:04,093
Speaker 2: The mascot race tough for my otarger your otarga.

513
00:28:04,213 --> 00:28:04,693
Speaker 3: Yeah right.

514
00:28:05,373 --> 00:28:09,853
Speaker 2: It was a great final, great occasion, eighteen thousand fans

515
00:28:10,013 --> 00:28:13,053
Speaker 2: packed in at Polo Project Stadium in christ Church, great

516
00:28:13,213 --> 00:28:17,013
Speaker 2: afternoon for footy and a great result. So everyone leaves happy,

517
00:28:17,093 --> 00:28:19,293
Speaker 2: perhaps apart from the OTAGA fans, but what look, it

518
00:28:19,373 --> 00:28:23,133
Speaker 2: has been a great NPC. My understanding is that the

519
00:28:23,173 --> 00:28:28,613
Speaker 2: final was, you know, a blockbuster for Sky. Don't have

520
00:28:28,653 --> 00:28:30,773
Speaker 2: any specifics on that. That's for them to release, but

521
00:28:30,773 --> 00:28:33,173
Speaker 2: I understand it worked very, very well. So it's been

522
00:28:33,213 --> 00:28:35,333
Speaker 2: a bit of a renaissance for the NPC this season

523
00:28:35,453 --> 00:28:36,653
Speaker 2: and long matt continue.

524
00:28:37,173 --> 00:28:39,733
Speaker 3: Yeah, and hopefully that means more afternoon footy as well,

525
00:28:39,773 --> 00:28:44,813
Speaker 3: because if it's a great ratings on television, it's certainly

526
00:28:45,253 --> 00:28:50,253
Speaker 3: prime time to get fans through the stadium. Just one

527
00:28:50,293 --> 00:28:52,253
Speaker 3: final point where we're on crush Chitch. I saw some

528
00:28:52,773 --> 00:28:57,133
Speaker 3: had a mate who went through the new stadium and

529
00:28:57,653 --> 00:29:00,573
Speaker 3: it looks magnificent. I think it's gonna be a benchmark

530
00:29:00,613 --> 00:29:04,093
Speaker 3: for New Zealands. Apparently the concourse, you can still see

531
00:29:04,133 --> 00:29:08,053
Speaker 3: the grounds, Apparently it's got like restaurants in there, obviously

532
00:29:08,053 --> 00:29:11,613
Speaker 3: got the roof. It's gonna be an amazing venue. So

533
00:29:12,533 --> 00:29:14,013
Speaker 3: look forward to your host to me there one day.

534
00:29:14,093 --> 00:29:16,653
Speaker 2: Yeah well yeah, the new National Stadium. Many are calling

535
00:29:16,653 --> 00:29:19,573
Speaker 2: it the National Stadium.

536
00:29:18,533 --> 00:29:19,333
Speaker 3: The highlight of Rush.

537
00:29:19,453 --> 00:29:21,293
Speaker 2: We might have to get Rugby Direct down there for

538
00:29:21,653 --> 00:29:23,573
Speaker 2: Super around next year. I think we might have to

539
00:29:23,573 --> 00:29:26,733
Speaker 2: make that happen. But that has been us for in Chicago.

540
00:29:26,893 --> 00:29:29,133
Speaker 2: As we count down to the Manchiing throw all the

541
00:29:29,173 --> 00:29:33,053
Speaker 2: coverage on Enzi, Herald of Haus and live commentary Sunday morning,

542
00:29:33,053 --> 00:29:35,613
Speaker 2: across News Talks, You Be Gold Sport and iHeartRadio and

543
00:29:35,653 --> 00:29:38,413
Speaker 2: we will be back in your feed. Catch up with

544
00:29:38,493 --> 00:29:42,893
Speaker 2: you early next week on Rugby Direct now by Folkliff Solutions,

545
00:29:42,893 --> 00:29:45,213
Speaker 2: lifting you and your business to a higher level thanks

546
00:29:45,253 --> 00:29:47,773
Speaker 2: to Currie Shaw producing Colle You Next time.

547
00:29:52,093 --> 00:29:54,733
Speaker 1: For more from News Talks at b listen live on

548
00:29:54,813 --> 00:29:57,773
Speaker 1: air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever

549
00:29:57,813 --> 00:30:00,413
Speaker 1: you go with our podcast on iHeartRadio