1 00:00:07,133 --> 00:00:10,453 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Saturday Morning with Jack Team podcast 2 00:00:10,573 --> 00:00:11,693 Speaker 1: from News Talks at be. 3 00:00:12,813 --> 00:00:16,573 Speaker 2: You know what, in principle, I think we are all 4 00:00:17,453 --> 00:00:22,733 Speaker 2: best served by transparency and government. I think leaders should 5 00:00:22,773 --> 00:00:25,413 Speaker 2: be accountable for their decisions, and they should be willing 6 00:00:25,453 --> 00:00:27,933 Speaker 2: to take our questions, and they should answer them in 7 00:00:27,973 --> 00:00:32,173 Speaker 2: a public format. It is after all, it is my job. 8 00:00:32,693 --> 00:00:35,253 Speaker 2: It is what I do. So probably not a great surprise, 9 00:00:35,333 --> 00:00:38,773 Speaker 2: I feel that way. That being said, it's pretty clear 10 00:00:38,773 --> 00:00:44,173 Speaker 2: to me the COVID Inquiry has fallen victim to some 11 00:00:44,293 --> 00:00:48,453 Speaker 2: bad and even cynical design shaped by politics, rather than 12 00:00:49,333 --> 00:00:54,333 Speaker 2: a sincere desire to get a full and comprehensive accounting 13 00:00:54,533 --> 00:00:56,933 Speaker 2: of our response. And it's a shame. It really is 14 00:00:56,933 --> 00:00:59,933 Speaker 2: a shame because I think actually it threatens to undermine 15 00:00:59,973 --> 00:01:02,453 Speaker 2: some of the inquiri's more useful conclusions. In a way. 16 00:01:02,493 --> 00:01:05,253 Speaker 2: It is a bit of a missed opportunity. So in 17 00:01:05,333 --> 00:01:08,133 Speaker 2: my view, there's plenty of blame to go around. I 18 00:01:08,173 --> 00:01:11,853 Speaker 2: reckon the first phase of the COVID Inquiry, which was 19 00:01:11,893 --> 00:01:15,093 Speaker 2: of course introduced by the last government. I reckon that 20 00:01:15,133 --> 00:01:18,893 Speaker 2: missed some critical elements in its terms of reference. There 21 00:01:18,973 --> 00:01:21,973 Speaker 2: was the stuff around monetary policy, the role of the 22 00:01:22,013 --> 00:01:23,933 Speaker 2: Reserve Bank. There was a little bit of that in 23 00:01:24,333 --> 00:01:27,213 Speaker 2: the inquiry's conclusions, but I think it should have been 24 00:01:27,253 --> 00:01:31,693 Speaker 2: included more comprehensively in the terms of reference. But worst 25 00:01:31,733 --> 00:01:35,653 Speaker 2: of all was the decision not to include vaccine efficacy 26 00:01:36,613 --> 00:01:39,933 Speaker 2: for something so fundamental to the response and so important 27 00:01:40,133 --> 00:01:42,213 Speaker 2: to some New Zealander is that they were willing to 28 00:01:42,253 --> 00:01:46,333 Speaker 2: lose relationships, jobs, and livelihoods over it. I think the 29 00:01:46,453 --> 00:01:52,133 Speaker 2: effectiveness of vaccines and whatever slim risk they carried should 30 00:01:52,213 --> 00:01:56,013 Speaker 2: have been included. And I think the fact that was 31 00:01:56,093 --> 00:01:59,653 Speaker 2: missing from the first stage of the COVID inquiry, I 32 00:01:59,693 --> 00:02:04,213 Speaker 2: think that is a real shame. In principle, I supported 33 00:02:04,253 --> 00:02:09,253 Speaker 2: expanding the inquiry. I saw the refreshed terms of reference. 34 00:02:10,613 --> 00:02:13,413 Speaker 2: If it was to be a sincere effort, a truly 35 00:02:13,493 --> 00:02:16,493 Speaker 2: sincere effort to consider our COVID response, the good cause 36 00:02:16,573 --> 00:02:19,493 Speaker 2: and the bad calls, in order to move forward and 37 00:02:19,533 --> 00:02:23,173 Speaker 2: to better prepare for the next pandemic shock, how could 38 00:02:23,253 --> 00:02:28,333 Speaker 2: you leave out the first year of the response? Come on. Sure, 39 00:02:28,933 --> 00:02:32,053 Speaker 2: much of the second phase of the inquiry has focused 40 00:02:32,053 --> 00:02:36,133 Speaker 2: on vaccines, but it also focused on lockdowns and control measures, 41 00:02:36,373 --> 00:02:39,613 Speaker 2: and if you really cared about our COVID response. You 42 00:02:39,653 --> 00:02:42,613 Speaker 2: would start that line of inquiry with I don't know 43 00:02:43,413 --> 00:02:46,933 Speaker 2: the start of the pandemic, rather than starting at fourteen 44 00:02:46,973 --> 00:02:50,293 Speaker 2: months on. Don't you think to exclude the period when 45 00:02:50,413 --> 00:02:54,053 Speaker 2: it wasn't just labor and government and to exclude what 46 00:02:54,253 --> 00:02:58,253 Speaker 2: with time have probably proved to be the more popular 47 00:02:58,293 --> 00:03:04,053 Speaker 2: components of the government's response. I think was disingenuous and cynical. 48 00:03:05,333 --> 00:03:09,773 Speaker 2: The COVID nineteen response was vast. It was just incredibly complex, 49 00:03:10,013 --> 00:03:14,013 Speaker 2: right and all these years on it it's almost impossible 50 00:03:14,053 --> 00:03:16,213 Speaker 2: to unpick every decision because you have to try and 51 00:03:16,253 --> 00:03:19,813 Speaker 2: separate the information we have now with the information we 52 00:03:19,893 --> 00:03:21,973 Speaker 2: had at the time. I don't know about you, but 53 00:03:22,453 --> 00:03:26,493 Speaker 2: COVID to me is this weird blur. I find it 54 00:03:26,573 --> 00:03:29,973 Speaker 2: incredibly difficult in my own mind and memories to distinguish 55 00:03:30,053 --> 00:03:32,773 Speaker 2: between really big events. Was it this lockdown? Was it 56 00:03:32,853 --> 00:03:37,053 Speaker 2: that lockdown? I'm not too sure. The virus has cast 57 00:03:37,053 --> 00:03:40,533 Speaker 2: a long shadow in New Zealand. Though our response undoubtedly 58 00:03:40,613 --> 00:03:44,653 Speaker 2: saved a lot of lives, but it wasn't without its costs. 59 00:03:44,973 --> 00:03:47,573 Speaker 2: The pandemic might have been over ages ago, but the 60 00:03:47,613 --> 00:03:51,613 Speaker 2: economic and social impacts endure. And one thing I would 61 00:03:51,653 --> 00:03:56,533 Speaker 2: add to the Royal Commission's conclusions thus far is that 62 00:03:56,653 --> 00:03:59,373 Speaker 2: next time, I think we need to find a better 63 00:04:00,013 --> 00:04:05,973 Speaker 2: respectful way to hear and consider dissenting views. Media obviously 64 00:04:06,013 --> 00:04:10,053 Speaker 2: played a critical role in this, but although I think 65 00:04:10,093 --> 00:04:12,973 Speaker 2: we did a reasonable job last time, I reckon next 66 00:04:13,013 --> 00:04:17,613 Speaker 2: time is going to be so much more difficult. Depending 67 00:04:17,653 --> 00:04:22,573 Speaker 2: on the circumstances. It may not massively change government policy 68 00:04:22,653 --> 00:04:25,493 Speaker 2: or the public health response. We don't know, but given 69 00:04:26,253 --> 00:04:33,013 Speaker 2: the conspiratorial nature of the fringiest elements, it may honestly 70 00:04:33,053 --> 00:04:37,253 Speaker 2: be an impossible task. Nevertheless, I just think one of 71 00:04:37,293 --> 00:04:40,573 Speaker 2: the key lessons from the COVID years is that somehow 72 00:04:40,613 --> 00:04:46,373 Speaker 2: making people feel heard and respected instead of ostracized is 73 00:04:46,413 --> 00:04:49,853 Speaker 2: a vital part in preventing the worst of the societal 74 00:04:49,853 --> 00:04:52,373 Speaker 2: division that still afflicts us years. 75 00:04:52,173 --> 00:04:56,093 Speaker 1: On for more from Saturday Morning with Jack Tame. Listen 76 00:04:56,173 --> 00:04:59,293 Speaker 1: live to News talks'd B from nine am Saturday, or 77 00:04:59,373 --> 00:05:01,293 Speaker 1: follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.