1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,719 Speaker 1: More moraification issues to deal with. I told you earlier 2 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:05,559 Speaker 1: this week about the requirements around TA tyranny for pharmacists. 3 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:08,400 Speaker 1: Now Aukland University's new invented program this is the way 4 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:12,039 Speaker 1: pathatalmuta raw International students are being made to do this. 5 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:16,320 Speaker 1: It's mandatory and they will charge you five seven hundred 6 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:19,480 Speaker 1: and thirty dollars for the pleasure. Now the athlete David 7 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:20,960 Speaker 1: Seymour is back with us. Very good morning. 8 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 2: Hey, good morning mate. 9 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:24,439 Speaker 1: So we talked to Penny Simmons about this, may have 10 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:26,120 Speaker 1: even talked to you about it in the last year 11 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 1: or so once it came to our attention because of 12 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 1: children in that particular establishment. But she said, and I 13 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:32,559 Speaker 1: think you said at the time, they're independent. They can 14 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 1: do what they like, can't they. 15 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:37,239 Speaker 2: Well, there is an element of truth in that, and 16 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:40,159 Speaker 2: I think a lot of the frustrations that people have, 17 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:44,280 Speaker 2: including me, with different institutions that haven't quite got the 18 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 2: memo that the people changed the government is that they 19 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 2: are subject to the law as is ultimate leader government. 20 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 2: So in the case of the University of Auckland, they 21 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 2: have a council, they have the ultimate say what we 22 00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 2: can do. As a point better people, but also publicly 23 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:05,959 Speaker 2: maker views. No, and I certainly intend to be doing 24 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:09,080 Speaker 2: that because I've had so many constituents in the EPSOM 25 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:11,400 Speaker 2: electorate who are students and they're just saying, this is 26 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:15,320 Speaker 2: not only not of interest to us, but more importantly, 27 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:20,560 Speaker 2: it's a perversion of academic freedom. This particular course is 28 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 2: quite different from other stuff that happens at the university. 29 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 2: Usually students can choose their own electives. There's no course 30 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 2: that's absolutely compulsory across the whole university, and usually professors 31 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:38,400 Speaker 2: are free to criticize the course material. This is quite different. 32 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 2: It's actually a form of indoctrination because it's largely being 33 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:46,319 Speaker 2: taught by people outside of particular faculty for frankly political 34 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 2: purposes rather than educational exactly. 35 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 1: Now, the difficulty is and you viihlate it at university 36 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 1: and they take a paper off you. In other words, 37 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 1: because you have to do that paper, you are doing 38 00:01:56,640 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 1: one less paper of your choice, which is what university 39 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 1: is all about. Can you, though, despite what you said, 40 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 1: literally do anything about it. 41 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 2: What we can do is appoint new council members. Will 42 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 2: be doing that. Unfortunately, I think only one comes up 43 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 2: this year, but we can also I think, lead opinion 44 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 2: or at least reflect the opinion that we're feeling, so 45 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 2: that people on the campus have the ability to say, actually, 46 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:26,679 Speaker 2: we don't agree with this, our government doesn't agree with this, 47 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:29,239 Speaker 2: MYA and P doesn't agree with this. We should be 48 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:31,680 Speaker 2: able to speak up and say no to it. That's 49 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 2: part of I know that's what you might call soft power, 50 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:37,119 Speaker 2: but I still think it's important. 51 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 1: Is part of it? Could it? I mean one of 52 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:42,119 Speaker 1: two things are going to happen. Either the other universities 53 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:43,960 Speaker 1: are going to go, oh cool, we'll get into this 54 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:47,520 Speaker 1: as well, and then we're truly stuffed, or international students 55 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 1: or students generally can go look to other universities and go, well, 56 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:51,920 Speaker 1: they don't do it. I'll go there is there a 57 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 1: bit of that about it. 58 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 2: Well, Unfortunately, what I'm hearing is a lot of people 59 00:02:57,639 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 2: is particually in the electorate I represent and now looking 60 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:03,680 Speaker 2: at overseas universities because they feel unable to speak up 61 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:06,520 Speaker 2: against these things, and yet they also know it's not 62 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 2: the best for their future. I have to say. One 63 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 2: of the purposes of the Treaty Principles fell was to 64 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:14,840 Speaker 2: define the principles of the treaty as treating everybody equally 65 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:17,680 Speaker 2: in this country. And the purpose of that is to 66 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 2: allow people to tap on the sign. And you say, 67 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 2: you say you have to do this because of the 68 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 2: principles of the treaty. No, you don't here they are. Yeah. 69 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:26,799 Speaker 1: Did you read the spin off story by miss Smith, 70 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 1: who sat there for most of the eighty hours? 71 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:33,240 Speaker 2: I did not read. I do read the Spinoff sometimes, 72 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 2: but I usually you. 73 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:38,640 Speaker 1: Should read it fifty taker. It's her fifty things she learned, 74 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 1: and she was one of the few who was there 75 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 1: for the whole time, along with Mary Television. And what 76 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 1: she got out of it, and this is a very 77 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 1: left leaning sort of operation. What she got out of it, though, 78 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 1: and I thought was really instructive, was that no one agrees. 79 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 1: So you can have every expert in the world that goes, no, 80 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 1: what David Seymore is doing is dangerous and or know 81 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 1: what David Seymore's doing is right, so they agree to disagree. 82 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 1: And these are learned, studied, intelligent, articulate people. So what 83 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:05,839 Speaker 1: you're trying to do, which is to you know, here 84 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:08,839 Speaker 1: it is once and for all, is the right thing. 85 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 1: I mean, that's what came out of the hearings if 86 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 1: you listened to them all. 87 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I don't want to relitigate all the politics. Obviously, 88 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 2: I'm disappointed that my partners and government don't want to 89 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:22,599 Speaker 2: carry this thing on. But what it will do is 90 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 2: leave a line in the sand where people in the 91 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:28,000 Speaker 2: future will be able to stay hang on. There's been 92 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 2: an attempt to define the principles of the treaty as 93 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:34,480 Speaker 2: making all Dewey's equal. There haven't been any strong arguments 94 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 2: against it. And I believe that in the future, maybe me, 95 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 2: maybe somebody else will pick this up, and we will 96 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:44,160 Speaker 2: be a much better country when we interpret our founding 97 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 2: document as giving each of us equal rights. Right. 98 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 1: I got sidetracked there by what you said. Sorry pharmacists, 99 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 1: which was the other thing this week with the Tatuti thing. 100 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:55,599 Speaker 1: Eighty five percent of pharmacists are short of staff. I 101 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 1: read the list out on air, and we wonder why 102 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 1: pharmacists don't come into the country. Why haven't you fixed that? 103 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 1: By the way, a year and a half in, why 104 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 1: haven't you fixed it? 105 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:07,920 Speaker 2: Well again, I don't want to sound like we're trying 106 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:10,160 Speaker 2: to avoid the issue, but I just want to explain 107 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 2: what we're doing and what the constraints are. This was 108 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:18,480 Speaker 2: done back in June twenty twenty three. It comes into 109 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 2: effect on April first this year. This is these new 110 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 2: criteria for being a pharmacist qualified in New Zealand. Our 111 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 2: main power over the Pharmacy Council is to appoint the council. 112 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:33,600 Speaker 2: I happen to be responsible for doing that. I got 113 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 2: a paper through from the Ministry of Health about two 114 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 2: months ago that said, here's all the usual suspects that 115 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 2: we think you should appoint. I had to look at 116 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:46,600 Speaker 2: these names. I noticed that they'd mostly been recommended by 117 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 2: these various so called population agencies, the Ministry for Pacific 118 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:54,600 Speaker 2: People and the Ministry for Women and TPK and Ministry 119 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:57,160 Speaker 2: for Ethnic Affairs and so on. And I looked at 120 00:05:57,200 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 2: it and I thought, no, no, no, no. So what 121 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 2: I've done, as I've said, we're putting a hold on 122 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 2: the reappointments. I've put an article in Pharmacy Today that 123 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 2: basically says, if you're a pharmacist who loves pharmacy and 124 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:11,599 Speaker 2: wants excellence in the profession, then please put your name forward. 125 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 2: And I expect to ap point five of the eight 126 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 2: people who were previously appointed by Labor will be putting 127 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 2: in people who've actually got their eyes on the price 128 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:25,920 Speaker 2: of a world leading pharmacy profession that's the best at 129 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 2: what they do, rather than a kind of cultural indoctrination. 130 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:31,919 Speaker 1: Good sooner, the better, appreciate time, Have a good weekend. 131 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 1: David Seymour, act leader. 132 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 2: For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to 133 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:39,599 Speaker 2: news talks. It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow 134 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 2: the podcast on iHeartRadio.