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Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks'd be follow

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Speaker 1: this and our Wide Ranger podcasts now on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: We have been talking about the Enhanced Games, an event

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Speaker 2: where athletes will not be drug tested. So a great

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Speaker 2: man to chat to on this is Eric Murray, one

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Speaker 2: of our sporting greats, a double Olympic gold medal champion

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Speaker 2: and an astonishing eight gold medals at the World Champs.

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Speaker 2: He certainly knows a hell of a lot about elite

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Speaker 2: sport and he joins us, Now get a Eric m

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Speaker 2: how are we very good?

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Speaker 3: Now you've got to the very top of a clean sport.

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Speaker 3: What's your gut reaction to the idea of a drugged

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Speaker 3: up enhanced Games with everyone on the pads.

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Speaker 4: Well, it depends if you're taking the piss right and

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Speaker 4: going we're going to absolutely juice to the eyeballs and

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Speaker 4: like probably go on the dangerous side of the of

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Speaker 4: the enhancement, or are you going to push it to

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Speaker 4: a level which I guess just crosses the line from

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Speaker 4: what is currently now if that.

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Speaker 5: Makes any sense.

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Speaker 3: Yes, So they claim that there'll be medical oversights and

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Speaker 3: that you know, as risky as the drug taking that

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Speaker 3: takes happens illegally in sports at the moment. So you know,

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Speaker 3: but I mean, are there are any pens safe? I mean,

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Speaker 3: you know, I mean I don't think it does It

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Speaker 3: doesn't turn out that great for your heart generally, does it?

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Speaker 5: Well?

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Speaker 4: No, But you know, I guess under controlled supervision. The

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Speaker 4: reason that there's the reason that there's things in place

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Speaker 4: to stop I guess enhancement is because how far can

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Speaker 4: you push it? And that's and that's that's the line,

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Speaker 4: because you know, you're not allowed its currently with wider

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Speaker 4: and stuff. You're not allowed to be on drips or

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Speaker 4: your IV lines after you've trained or anything like that.

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Speaker 5: Now, how much how much effect would that have? You know,

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Speaker 5: taking taking your red.

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Speaker 4: Blood cells and you know the blood doping and putting

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Speaker 4: that back and obviously had a great effect for old

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Speaker 4: Lance Armstrong. So if you did, if you did that

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Speaker 4: under supervision, how much more does that add?

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Speaker 5: You know?

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Speaker 4: But when you're getting into I'm going to be on

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Speaker 4: growth hormones and I'm going to put the steroids up

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Speaker 4: to the eyeballs and that sort of thing, there's obviously

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Speaker 4: going to be effect to your body.

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Speaker 5: And that's the issue.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Now, rowing isn't one of the sports that that's

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Speaker 3: in the twenty twenty six Enhance Games. But do you

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Speaker 3: think enhanced rowings rowing would break records or is it

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Speaker 3: more than that? Isn't it timing and race management and

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Speaker 3: being sync and sync with your partner and all that

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Speaker 3: kind of stuff more important in a way?

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Speaker 5: Oh? Absolutely.

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Speaker 4: And the thing is that there's quite a few sports

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Speaker 4: where if you just take all of that into the account,

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Speaker 4: you know, and you're going say weightlifting or sprinting that

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Speaker 4: type of thing, you've got a very limited aspect of

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Speaker 4: the technical side, which means that yeah, you can pump

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Speaker 4: it up and get really strong and you know, or

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Speaker 4: you could throw shot puts or jablin's quite far that

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Speaker 4: type of thing, but there's still an element of technical

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Speaker 4: involvement whereas you know, you get to things like rowing

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Speaker 4: or kayaking that type of thing, there's a huge amount

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Speaker 4: of technical component that comes with what you're doing. And

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Speaker 4: so yes, there will be a benefit for you being

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Speaker 4: super fatal, super strong, but if you if you can't

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Speaker 4: row for shit, you know.

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Speaker 6: It doesn't So it might be more about someone who

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Speaker 6: is saying behind behind you and was never going to

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Speaker 6: beat you and looks at it and goes, well, I'm

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Speaker 6: not a chance here, but I've got some skills, so

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Speaker 6: then I'll go to the enhanced games.

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Speaker 3: If you see what I'm saying, Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely, And I think that is you know, I still

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Speaker 4: think that we're not you know, we're I do want

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Speaker 4: to cross a line here, but I still think that

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Speaker 4: we're not quite getting to what I believe we could

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Speaker 4: with human performance currently. But of course where do you

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Speaker 4: like the problem is you've got to draw a line.

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Speaker 4: You know, It's like, we can't we can't take steroids

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Speaker 4: to and taking steroids isn't horrifically bad if you're taking

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Speaker 4: them at a at a dosage, or at a level

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Speaker 4: or the type of stereoid you're having for recovery, because

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Speaker 4: I guess what the common myth is that everybody thinks

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Speaker 4: you just take steroids and you get really big and massive.

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Speaker 5: But all the steroids is there to help you recover.

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Speaker 4: Right, So you're taking it, you're recovering quicker. You get

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Speaker 4: on an ive, you're recovering quicker. You take a quarter

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Speaker 4: zone injection because you've done an injury. It helps the

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Speaker 4: recovery quicker. Right, So there's all of these things where yeah,

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Speaker 4: you can, you can help recover the body quicker, which

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Speaker 4: currently not allowed. But then as I've said, you know,

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Speaker 4: there's there's stepping the line even further and saying right,

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Speaker 4: we're on growth or moone, we're on antibody anabolic steroids.

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Speaker 5: You're going to make you really big and strong and

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Speaker 5: that type of thing.

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Speaker 4: So really just you know, it's it's weird as I'm drawing,

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Speaker 4: and even with most most athletes now, you know, like

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Speaker 4: you're pushing it to as much as you can with

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Speaker 4: the current regulations and guidelines. So it's like, you know,

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Speaker 4: you can still take caffeine currently. You know, if you

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Speaker 4: need if you need ventilin for your supposed sports induced asthma,

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Speaker 4: you're allowed it. You know, like if you need a

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Speaker 4: cord zone for an injury, you can get it under

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Speaker 4: restricted circumstances.

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Speaker 5: So there's things that are currently there.

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Speaker 4: But if you just opened up that ballpark, it's like, okay,

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Speaker 4: where would we start jumping to already?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's interesting I've made as far from an athlete

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Speaker 3: and he's on the royds for his exma, but that's

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Speaker 3: a totally differentntion.

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Speaker 2: It certainly is so Eric, the guy that's funding this

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Speaker 2: Aaron Desuza. He says, and I think he's genuine about this,

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Speaker 2: that he thinks that part of this will be scientific

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Speaker 2: discovery about finding that extra ed and there might be

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Speaker 2: some good that comes out of it. Do you buy

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Speaker 2: that or do you think this is just an exhibition

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Speaker 2: freak show if you will.

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Speaker 4: No, I think there is because at the moment, you know,

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Speaker 4: every single sporting person in the world is using a

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Speaker 4: sports physiologist, right and so they're working with your human

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Speaker 4: physiology to train you in the in the right way,

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Speaker 4: in the way that you can using. And like not

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Speaker 4: to get like super complicated here, but there's things called

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Speaker 4: training stress scores, you know, and.

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Speaker 5: So heart rate variability, so how you wake up to

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Speaker 5: how you can train today? You know, how much training

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Speaker 5: stress have you put on.

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Speaker 4: Your body this week? So they're already tracking that. But

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Speaker 4: it's like, what if we just gave it another fifteen percent?

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Speaker 4: You know, But how do you get that fifteen percent?

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Speaker 4: Because the only way for you to get that extra

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Speaker 4: percentage is by using outside influence, so to speak. So

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Speaker 4: if we were just looking at in that respect, absolutely

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Speaker 4: you could see some you could see some performances that

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Speaker 4: would really be pushing up there with the likes of

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Speaker 4: what was happening back in the eighties with all the

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Speaker 4: world records that got scrapped in most sports, but under

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Speaker 4: a controlled under a controlled environment, And so yes, I

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Speaker 4: do see a benefit in terms of that science. But

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Speaker 4: the problem is it's like they're just saying it's in

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Speaker 4: enhanced games and like, fuck, just go for gold.

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Speaker 5: But of course, mate, you.

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Speaker 4: Go too hard, We're going to have you know, there's

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Speaker 4: a lot of problems that can happen. But if you

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Speaker 4: can do it under the controlled environment above the restrictions

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Speaker 4: that are currently in place, for sure, you're going to

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Speaker 4: see some performances. But and here's the butt, it's like,

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Speaker 4: how many of the current athletes are going to want

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Speaker 4: to do that versus what they're currently doing, because you're

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Speaker 4: only really going to get the athletes that are AI

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Speaker 4: either not quite good enough currently to be there, all

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Speaker 4: the ones that are sort of retired and gone. You

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Speaker 4: know what, I'll just whip out a retirement for a

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Speaker 4: couple of years and just see what I can do.

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Speaker 3: Another argument is that the organizers have is that they

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Speaker 3: will test it to the limit here, much like Formula one,

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Speaker 3: where you test the you know, the the tech to

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Speaker 3: the limit, and then maybe these performance and drugs could

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Speaker 3: be used for people that aren't trying to you know,

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Speaker 3: win win medals, but are actually just getting through life

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Speaker 3: and maybe across life everyone could be performing better if

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Speaker 3: there's if there's a performance anything drugs that have been

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Speaker 3: proven to be safe in the in the hardest stress

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Speaker 3: point of competition.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but like a lot of those are already there

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Speaker 4: that most like that. I think this is part of

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Speaker 4: the misconception is that there's there's so many I guess

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Speaker 4: drugs that are administered to people in everyday life because

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Speaker 4: they've got something, you know, like the uh, you know,

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Speaker 4: you've got a chest infection, so you can get different

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Speaker 4: drugs for that. You know, you've got to infection, so

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Speaker 4: you can get different stuff. And a lot of the

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Speaker 4: masking agents that are banned in sport are things where

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Speaker 4: you do have an infection. You know, you get a

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Speaker 4: little bit of sepsus or something from an infected blister

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Speaker 4: or you know whatever. We're not allowed those as athletes

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Speaker 4: because it keeps the like the steroid or the antibiotics

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Speaker 4: in your system and holding them there. So you know,

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Speaker 4: there's all of those types of things which are currently

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Speaker 4: allowed in the general public's everyday life if they've got

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Speaker 4: an ailment, but aren't allowed in sport. Right, So this

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Speaker 4: is where it's like, where are we just going to

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Speaker 4: go across the line or are we literally just throwing

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Speaker 4: the line out the window and being like, go for

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Speaker 4: gold boys, you know, boys and girls, let's light it up.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we are talking to double Olympic gold medal champion

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Speaker 2: Eric Murray, Eric honesty call. Ifdsuza says we want to

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Speaker 2: bring rolling into the enhanced Games, put the call out.

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Speaker 2: Would you ever look at that and consider, hey, it's

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Speaker 2: half a million bucks and won't give it a crack

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Speaker 2: mad on.

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Speaker 5: Forty three pounds?

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Speaker 4: That's probably something you ask like Emma Twig or someone

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Speaker 4: who's you know, right around probably the right age or

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Speaker 4: the perfect age currently in a peak, but na not

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Speaker 4: for me, like I've crossed that level.

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Speaker 5: But that's the other thing as well.

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Speaker 4: You know there's in a lot of sports, and I'll

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Speaker 4: give you the stat that the average age of an

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Speaker 4: Olympic gold medalists like thirty, right, so you've almost got

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Speaker 4: to be around thirty years old, somewhere mid twenties to

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Speaker 4: mid thirties, and then decide to jump on this bandwagon,

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Speaker 4: and of course absolutely, if there's the problem, I shouldn't

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Speaker 4: say the problem. The thing is with most sports is

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Speaker 4: that the reason that people you know, step aside or

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Speaker 4: try and push the boundaries or cheat so to speak,

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Speaker 4: is because money is involved.

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Speaker 5: You know, it's like that's the reason.

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Speaker 4: That's the reason that people are doing it is because

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Speaker 4: they're like, look, if I win this, I get bonus endorsements,

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Speaker 4: I get I could get a sponsorship from this and

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Speaker 4: that type of thing, and so most of it is

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Speaker 4: driven by money and the reward that you get from things.

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Speaker 3: Do you think that the Enhanced Games would What do

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Speaker 3: you think the Enhanced Games would mean for the Olympics?

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Speaker 3: Because do you reckon they could both exist without affecting

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Speaker 3: each other?

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Speaker 4: Well, I do, because what you know, you've got to

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Speaker 4: think what they've been trying to do with the Olympics

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Speaker 4: is make it a standard, right, so it's a standardized thing.

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Speaker 4: That's why you've got wider that's why you've got drug

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Speaker 4: free sport. You know, organizations in every country is to

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Speaker 4: create a standard so that the next person knows what

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Speaker 4: the standard is and competes to that standard. Can they

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Speaker 4: push that standard even further because otherwise, as you say,

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Speaker 4: this is what's going to happen, is that the standard

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Speaker 4: gets skewed because you've got enhancement. Whether that's whether that's

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Speaker 4: a lot of enhancement or just the minor enhancement. That's

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Speaker 4: the difference. And so generally the reason that all of

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Speaker 4: this exists is so that you can have a standard

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Speaker 4: and a benchmark that people aspire to that they'll be like, oh, wow,

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Speaker 4: they broke the Olympic record by point one of a second.

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Speaker 5: You know, if you're not breaking it by three or.

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Speaker 4: Four which could which will probably happen in this sort

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Speaker 4: of respect.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, it's a fascinating idea and it's going to happen

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Speaker 2: next May. But Eric, thank you very much for coming

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Speaker 2: on and having a chat, No worries.

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Speaker 5: Thanks to go.

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Speaker 2: We'll catch up again soon. That is double Olympic gold

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Speaker 2: medal champion Eric Murray.

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Speaker 1: air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever

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