1 00:00:09,133 --> 00:00:12,013 Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks. It be 2 00:00:12,413 --> 00:00:16,213 Speaker 1: follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio. 3 00:00:16,773 --> 00:00:19,813 Speaker 1: It's time for all the attitude, all the opinion, all 4 00:00:19,853 --> 00:00:22,253 Speaker 1: the information, all the debates. 5 00:00:21,973 --> 00:00:24,293 Speaker 2: Of theists, now. 6 00:00:24,293 --> 00:00:27,493 Speaker 1: The Layton Smith Podcast powered by News Talks. 7 00:00:27,493 --> 00:00:30,013 Speaker 3: It be Welcome to podcasts two hundred and sixty two 8 00:00:30,133 --> 00:00:33,973 Speaker 3: for October thirty, twenty twenty four. I was just twelve 9 00:00:33,973 --> 00:00:37,013 Speaker 3: weeks ago that we spoke with power engineer Brian Leyland 10 00:00:37,133 --> 00:00:43,213 Speaker 3: on electricity supply inadequacies. But his concern has since deepened, 11 00:00:44,013 --> 00:00:48,293 Speaker 3: so we update and consider whether nuclear power deserves more attention. 12 00:00:48,733 --> 00:00:51,373 Speaker 3: And it hits up me as it does. Last year 13 00:00:51,413 --> 00:00:55,213 Speaker 3: when we were in London, Christian Smith, whom I am 14 00:00:55,253 --> 00:00:58,973 Speaker 3: closely related, podcasted on life in London for young New 15 00:00:59,093 --> 00:01:03,333 Speaker 3: Zealanders in particular. It was appreciated by a large number 16 00:01:03,333 --> 00:01:07,613 Speaker 3: of people. Media commentary recently seems to suggest that the 17 00:01:07,893 --> 00:01:13,293 Speaker 3: young are fleeing Britain. Have things changed since July twenty three? Well, 18 00:01:13,373 --> 00:01:16,533 Speaker 3: yes and no, and Christian's got plenty to say. Now 19 00:01:16,533 --> 00:01:18,733 Speaker 3: I don't really need to point out that from today 20 00:01:18,773 --> 00:01:22,093 Speaker 3: there is one week to the most important election, If 21 00:01:22,133 --> 00:01:25,693 Speaker 3: not ever, then certainly in our lifetimes. There are some 22 00:01:25,733 --> 00:01:28,013 Speaker 3: people who are bored with it or don't like it 23 00:01:28,053 --> 00:01:30,853 Speaker 3: around interested. I feel sorry for them, to be honest, 24 00:01:31,653 --> 00:01:37,333 Speaker 3: because this is an incredibly, incredibly important election that affects 25 00:01:37,413 --> 00:01:40,813 Speaker 3: the whole world and that includes US. So at the 26 00:01:40,853 --> 00:01:42,693 Speaker 3: back end of two six two I'll drop in some 27 00:01:42,733 --> 00:01:46,133 Speaker 3: aspects of this election that are worthy of attention in 28 00:01:46,173 --> 00:01:51,853 Speaker 3: my opinion, But first COVID inquiries that are getting attention 29 00:01:51,973 --> 00:01:54,573 Speaker 3: on both sides of the Tasman and Britain and the 30 00:01:54,733 --> 00:01:59,013 Speaker 3: US and elsewhere. And I choose to quote Robert McCulloch 31 00:01:59,333 --> 00:02:02,813 Speaker 3: who guessed it on podcasts two fifty one. McCulloch is 32 00:02:02,893 --> 00:02:06,053 Speaker 3: a professor of economics at Auckland University who has the 33 00:02:06,453 --> 00:02:11,493 Speaker 3: ability to be a brutally honest well in his opinion 34 00:02:12,173 --> 00:02:18,133 Speaker 3: and be offensive in his criticism to some, including some 35 00:02:18,173 --> 00:02:21,213 Speaker 3: good acquaintances of mind as it happens, it is though 36 00:02:21,293 --> 00:02:24,493 Speaker 3: a case of free speech, like it or not now 37 00:02:24,533 --> 00:02:27,613 Speaker 3: in his blog down to Earth Kiwi, the Australians make 38 00:02:27,653 --> 00:02:31,813 Speaker 3: it official. Labour leader Hipkins, aided by his henchmen in 39 00:02:31,853 --> 00:02:36,173 Speaker 3: the mainstream media, wrecked New Zealand's economy by ordering vaccine's 40 00:02:36,293 --> 00:02:40,053 Speaker 3: late and destroyed trust in our government. I think it's 41 00:02:40,053 --> 00:02:42,373 Speaker 3: more to it than that, to be honest, but nevertheless, 42 00:02:42,733 --> 00:02:45,613 Speaker 3: this is his opinion and I shall air it. Days 43 00:02:45,653 --> 00:02:48,853 Speaker 3: after this blog released its two minute COVID Inquiry, which 44 00:02:48,853 --> 00:02:53,093 Speaker 3: I argued Labour leader and former COVID nineteen minister Chris Hipkins, 45 00:02:53,373 --> 00:02:57,733 Speaker 3: together with former PM A Dern and Health Chief Ashley Bloomfield, 46 00:02:58,413 --> 00:03:02,133 Speaker 3: ordered the COVID vaccine late, which crushed the New Zealand 47 00:03:02,133 --> 00:03:06,213 Speaker 3: economy and smashed trust in government as it forced them 48 00:03:06,253 --> 00:03:09,453 Speaker 3: into an over reliance on lockdown. In twenty twenty one, 49 00:03:09,973 --> 00:03:15,013 Speaker 3: the Australian COVID Inquiry has released near identical findings, almost 50 00:03:15,253 --> 00:03:19,013 Speaker 3: word for word, and briefly the first wide ranging inquiry 51 00:03:19,053 --> 00:03:22,413 Speaker 3: into the nation's pandemic. This is Australia Response has found 52 00:03:22,693 --> 00:03:27,013 Speaker 3: delays procuring COVID nineteen vaccine cost lives and delivered a 53 00:03:27,213 --> 00:03:31,133 Speaker 3: thirty one billion hit to the economy. In New Zealand's case, 54 00:03:31,173 --> 00:03:33,773 Speaker 3: it was a fifteen billion dollar hit, which is why 55 00:03:33,853 --> 00:03:38,573 Speaker 3: our health system is now underfunded, infrastructure crumbles and teachers 56 00:03:38,693 --> 00:03:43,133 Speaker 3: are underpaid. Then if we swing to his closing, New 57 00:03:43,213 --> 00:03:47,493 Speaker 3: Zealand does not need to waste more money on COVID inquiries. 58 00:03:48,533 --> 00:03:52,413 Speaker 3: The Australians have done ours for us. It matches what 59 00:03:52,533 --> 00:03:55,653 Speaker 3: this blog argued in twenty twenty one, as evidenced by 60 00:03:55,693 --> 00:03:59,933 Speaker 3: our writings and radio interviews, maybe more than any other institution. 61 00:04:00,293 --> 00:04:04,573 Speaker 3: Our mainstream media Radio New Zealand One News, Herald, News 62 00:04:04,613 --> 00:04:08,773 Speaker 3: Hub and stuff, should take a look at themselves and 63 00:04:08,933 --> 00:04:13,213 Speaker 3: ask why they sold out kiwis by not objectively scrutinizing 64 00:04:13,693 --> 00:04:17,973 Speaker 3: the New Zealand government during those times. So there is 65 00:04:18,053 --> 00:04:22,533 Speaker 3: more after the mail room, the back end of the 66 00:04:22,573 --> 00:04:25,773 Speaker 3: mainstream media at its place in the world. And while 67 00:04:25,773 --> 00:04:27,613 Speaker 3: there is so much more than we can deal with, 68 00:04:27,773 --> 00:04:30,213 Speaker 3: we'll do our best to point out a couple of 69 00:04:30,613 --> 00:04:45,853 Speaker 3: interesting factors now in a moment. Brian Leland Laighton Smith. 70 00:04:46,053 --> 00:04:49,253 Speaker 3: Brian Leyland is a consulting engineer with the experience in 71 00:04:49,293 --> 00:04:52,853 Speaker 3: all aspects of the power industry, and that experience covers 72 00:04:52,973 --> 00:04:57,573 Speaker 3: over fifty decades. We last spoke with him only twelve well, 73 00:04:57,653 --> 00:04:59,733 Speaker 3: I say only twelve weeks ago, because it seems like 74 00:05:00,133 --> 00:05:03,613 Speaker 3: it was only about five or six, but in podcasts 75 00:05:03,693 --> 00:05:06,213 Speaker 3: number two hundred and fifty I think it was, And 76 00:05:06,253 --> 00:05:10,573 Speaker 3: now we're doing two hundred and sixty to Brian appreciate 77 00:05:10,693 --> 00:05:17,013 Speaker 3: your time and appreciate even more your input the subjects 78 00:05:17,053 --> 00:05:20,053 Speaker 3: of electricity supply in this country. When we spoke twelve 79 00:05:20,053 --> 00:05:23,373 Speaker 3: weeks ago, you were disturbed, but now you are even 80 00:05:23,613 --> 00:05:30,573 Speaker 3: more concerned over the continued supply and reliability of electric 81 00:05:30,693 --> 00:05:32,453 Speaker 3: power in this country. Correct. 82 00:05:33,493 --> 00:05:34,733 Speaker 4: Correct, We. 83 00:05:36,333 --> 00:05:40,253 Speaker 5: Scraped through the shortage because it rained just in time. 84 00:05:40,373 --> 00:05:43,613 Speaker 5: The legs were at a lower level than they've ever 85 00:05:43,653 --> 00:05:46,413 Speaker 5: been before, and if it hadn't rained, we would have 86 00:05:46,533 --> 00:05:51,493 Speaker 5: had blackouts. But even then we had shortages that led 87 00:05:51,533 --> 00:05:55,813 Speaker 5: to shutdown in two industries, So in a way we 88 00:05:55,853 --> 00:06:00,133 Speaker 5: did have blackouts, but not affecting the consumer. So we're 89 00:06:00,173 --> 00:06:02,253 Speaker 5: in a serious situation now. 90 00:06:02,333 --> 00:06:07,653 Speaker 3: The MDAG, the market developed an advisory group that existed 91 00:06:07,693 --> 00:06:13,133 Speaker 3: between twenty seventeen and February of this year, has what 92 00:06:13,173 --> 00:06:13,853 Speaker 3: do we call. 93 00:06:13,693 --> 00:06:18,813 Speaker 5: Them past it's had a look at als degeneration going forward, 94 00:06:19,973 --> 00:06:23,053 Speaker 5: and it's all based on some very dubious assumptions. 95 00:06:23,573 --> 00:06:26,733 Speaker 3: All right, now you've gone through this and it must 96 00:06:26,733 --> 00:06:30,533 Speaker 3: have taken you some time. You've drawn up some conclusions 97 00:06:30,933 --> 00:06:34,453 Speaker 3: on your part, and so you've posed some questions. Shall 98 00:06:34,453 --> 00:06:36,293 Speaker 3: we run through them or some of them? 99 00:06:36,693 --> 00:06:38,453 Speaker 4: Yeah? I think that's a good idea right. 100 00:06:38,533 --> 00:06:42,413 Speaker 3: So, starting at the top, a basic assumption is that domestic, 101 00:06:42,493 --> 00:06:46,493 Speaker 3: industrial and commercial consumers will be happy to make major 102 00:06:46,613 --> 00:06:50,973 Speaker 3: changes in their behavior. For domestic consumers, most of the 103 00:06:51,053 --> 00:06:53,813 Speaker 3: changes will save less than a few dollars a day. 104 00:06:54,293 --> 00:06:58,133 Speaker 3: For commercial consumers like officers and shops that need to 105 00:06:58,173 --> 00:07:01,413 Speaker 3: reduce consumption will in most cases lead to losses in 106 00:07:01,453 --> 00:07:06,213 Speaker 3: sales or productivity. So what is your question? 107 00:07:06,773 --> 00:07:08,613 Speaker 4: Okay, just a little bit of background. 108 00:07:09,373 --> 00:07:14,133 Speaker 5: The assumptions behind all this are but we haven't gone 109 00:07:14,133 --> 00:07:18,653 Speaker 5: that generating capacity and therefore the consumers are going to 110 00:07:18,693 --> 00:07:22,573 Speaker 5: have to respond otherwise we'll have blackouts and they're looking 111 00:07:22,613 --> 00:07:28,573 Speaker 5: at having a massive response from consumers. So question is, so, 112 00:07:28,733 --> 00:07:31,613 Speaker 5: in the real world evidence from New Zealand or overseas, 113 00:07:32,133 --> 00:07:34,373 Speaker 5: consumers will be happy to change the way their home 114 00:07:34,493 --> 00:07:38,613 Speaker 5: or business runs to save a small amount nol thritty cost. 115 00:07:39,093 --> 00:07:42,573 Speaker 5: And the answer appears to be absolutely not. They'll do 116 00:07:42,653 --> 00:07:46,773 Speaker 5: a bit. And in the days when we made good 117 00:07:46,893 --> 00:07:50,613 Speaker 5: use of water heating, we could reduce our load by 118 00:07:50,653 --> 00:07:54,573 Speaker 5: five or ten percent just overpeak them on periods, but 119 00:07:54,653 --> 00:07:56,733 Speaker 5: not enough to make a difference to a dry year, 120 00:07:57,173 --> 00:08:00,693 Speaker 5: not enough to make a difference to the situation where 121 00:08:00,733 --> 00:08:03,493 Speaker 5: the wind doesn't blow for several days. 122 00:08:03,333 --> 00:08:05,413 Speaker 3: And we get those days now. 123 00:08:05,493 --> 00:08:05,773 Speaker 5: Yeah. 124 00:08:05,853 --> 00:08:09,373 Speaker 3: Another indeed, another assumption is that people will be happy 125 00:08:09,453 --> 00:08:12,173 Speaker 3: to plug in their electric car and have the system 126 00:08:12,373 --> 00:08:15,493 Speaker 3: deplete their battery whenever the system is in trouble. 127 00:08:16,173 --> 00:08:16,573 Speaker 4: Yeah. 128 00:08:16,733 --> 00:08:18,813 Speaker 5: Well, as far as I can make out, there's no 129 00:08:18,893 --> 00:08:22,333 Speaker 5: evidence anywhere in the world of this being a substantial 130 00:08:22,653 --> 00:08:28,453 Speaker 5: contributor to demand side management. And I can't imagine that 131 00:08:28,573 --> 00:08:32,493 Speaker 5: people would want to risk having their battery flat when 132 00:08:32,573 --> 00:08:35,613 Speaker 5: they get up in the morning just to safe make 133 00:08:35,693 --> 00:08:40,373 Speaker 5: a few dollars selling pounds a year to the system. 134 00:08:40,933 --> 00:08:45,613 Speaker 4: Well, that that's being reflected, it makes sense. Yeah, that's that's. 135 00:08:45,453 --> 00:08:51,253 Speaker 3: Reflected in in this In this next observation, another assumption 136 00:08:51,773 --> 00:08:54,133 Speaker 3: that sales of electric vehicles in New Zeala are going 137 00:08:54,133 --> 00:08:58,413 Speaker 3: to increase rapidly. Yet the evidence indicates that now that 138 00:08:58,493 --> 00:09:03,213 Speaker 3: the subsidies have been removed, the enthusiasm for electric cars 139 00:09:03,253 --> 00:09:06,933 Speaker 3: has largely died away. Is that is that correct? 140 00:09:07,733 --> 00:09:12,973 Speaker 5: Yes, that's dire, and I've got figures to prove it. 141 00:09:13,173 --> 00:09:17,693 Speaker 5: Electric car sales this year were hardly greater than last year. 142 00:09:18,493 --> 00:09:20,773 Speaker 5: And what you need for electric cars to be a 143 00:09:20,773 --> 00:09:26,173 Speaker 5: success is something like a fifty increase year on year 144 00:09:26,293 --> 00:09:30,013 Speaker 5: on year, and it's not happening anywhere in the world. 145 00:09:30,613 --> 00:09:34,253 Speaker 5: And you must always remember that electric cars would not 146 00:09:34,373 --> 00:09:39,773 Speaker 5: exist but the government mandates and subsidies. 147 00:09:40,813 --> 00:09:41,533 Speaker 4: It isn't. 148 00:09:42,893 --> 00:09:45,773 Speaker 5: An industry that would exist in a competitive situation. 149 00:09:46,653 --> 00:09:50,613 Speaker 3: Let me throw it a personal observation here. It's my 150 00:09:50,733 --> 00:09:54,213 Speaker 3: belief that part of the reason that is tied up 151 00:09:54,253 --> 00:09:57,773 Speaker 3: with all this is that they want us out of 152 00:09:57,893 --> 00:10:01,573 Speaker 3: cars anyway. They want us out of cars and into 153 00:10:02,613 --> 00:10:05,573 Speaker 3: in the public transport, in the walking and on bikes 154 00:10:06,333 --> 00:10:10,013 Speaker 3: and scooters and what have you. And they've made some 155 00:10:10,093 --> 00:10:15,293 Speaker 3: progress in places like well, you've got your fifteen minute 156 00:10:15,773 --> 00:10:19,013 Speaker 3: hounds that are developing around the country. I'm not sure 157 00:10:19,013 --> 00:10:21,173 Speaker 3: how many there are, but there are some. But I 158 00:10:21,493 --> 00:10:25,373 Speaker 3: always revert to Auckland, to Auckland Central for an example, 159 00:10:25,533 --> 00:10:29,933 Speaker 3: where they've screwed up shockingly, disgracefully and very badly just 160 00:10:29,973 --> 00:10:32,053 Speaker 3: to boot and wreck the city. 161 00:10:33,293 --> 00:10:35,853 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I know. The whole thing's crazy. 162 00:10:36,413 --> 00:10:39,453 Speaker 5: And if you're looking to get people out of cars, 163 00:10:39,453 --> 00:10:41,213 Speaker 5: and what you've got to do is provide them with 164 00:10:41,573 --> 00:10:46,253 Speaker 5: a convenient door to door transport, and people are now 165 00:10:46,293 --> 00:10:50,653 Speaker 5: developing electric self driving taxis that will do that job, 166 00:10:51,213 --> 00:10:55,693 Speaker 5: and you know, the whole industry is waiting there to 167 00:10:55,733 --> 00:10:58,413 Speaker 5: go ahead. Self driving is going to come sooner or later. 168 00:10:59,813 --> 00:11:02,973 Speaker 5: You won't get people back into buses in the way 169 00:11:02,973 --> 00:11:05,613 Speaker 5: that they expect, but you will get them into a 170 00:11:05,733 --> 00:11:08,973 Speaker 5: self driving speaking their self driving service. 171 00:11:09,533 --> 00:11:12,653 Speaker 4: You'd have to have a lot of them though. 172 00:11:13,413 --> 00:11:17,693 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, okay, we went with with with great interest. 173 00:11:17,973 --> 00:11:21,853 Speaker 3: Now worldwide, the evidence is that more wind and solar 174 00:11:21,893 --> 00:11:25,733 Speaker 3: power connected to the system, the higher the power price, 175 00:11:26,773 --> 00:11:31,173 Speaker 3: Australia being a perfect example. I think I think wholesale 176 00:11:31,213 --> 00:11:37,013 Speaker 3: prices increased in Australia for about four cents to what 177 00:11:37,653 --> 00:11:38,373 Speaker 3: about triple that? 178 00:11:39,533 --> 00:11:45,213 Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, pretty well, that's that's a characteristic that seems 179 00:11:45,213 --> 00:11:48,613 Speaker 5: to be all over the world. They are always saying 180 00:11:48,653 --> 00:11:51,613 Speaker 5: the wind and solar are the cheapest, and what they 181 00:11:51,733 --> 00:11:55,333 Speaker 5: really mean is at the station gate that cheaper, but 182 00:11:55,413 --> 00:11:58,253 Speaker 5: by the time you've paid for backup and transmission and 183 00:11:58,333 --> 00:12:01,213 Speaker 5: all the other costs they impose on the system, it's 184 00:12:01,293 --> 00:12:07,133 Speaker 5: very expensive. So it's basically nonsense to talk about wind 185 00:12:07,133 --> 00:12:08,173 Speaker 5: and solar being cheap. 186 00:12:08,813 --> 00:12:14,693 Speaker 3: Okay. Now, the group that being the market Developing Advisory 187 00:12:14,733 --> 00:12:20,373 Speaker 3: Group under the auspices of the Electricity Authority, the group 188 00:12:20,413 --> 00:12:23,333 Speaker 3: assumes that in spite of the declining income from wind 189 00:12:23,413 --> 00:12:26,333 Speaker 3: and solar power when it is abundant and needs to 190 00:12:26,373 --> 00:12:29,893 Speaker 3: be dumped and causes a price crash, generators and developers 191 00:12:29,933 --> 00:12:33,693 Speaker 3: will continue building wind and solver. Now that to me 192 00:12:33,813 --> 00:12:39,093 Speaker 3: seems to be nuts. Why do they believe that many 193 00:12:39,133 --> 00:12:43,053 Speaker 3: of the consented products will be built in spite of 194 00:12:43,093 --> 00:12:46,413 Speaker 3: the obviously declining economics as we get more and. 195 00:12:46,373 --> 00:12:50,813 Speaker 5: More of them, Because they're ignoring the realities of the 196 00:12:50,813 --> 00:12:54,013 Speaker 5: power system. And I think the people who've been involved 197 00:12:54,053 --> 00:12:57,413 Speaker 5: in this report don't have a good understanding of how 198 00:12:57,453 --> 00:13:01,133 Speaker 5: the power system works. The basic underlying problem, I think 199 00:13:01,213 --> 00:13:05,613 Speaker 5: is that there is a whole amount of groupthink amongst 200 00:13:05,613 --> 00:13:09,413 Speaker 5: the people in Wellington and among the senior people in 201 00:13:09,493 --> 00:13:13,253 Speaker 5: some of the generating companies, and they all believe this 202 00:13:13,493 --> 00:13:17,893 Speaker 5: and it's become an article of firm belief, and there's 203 00:13:18,093 --> 00:13:21,493 Speaker 5: not enough people involved with experience of the power system 204 00:13:22,413 --> 00:13:25,973 Speaker 5: who will point out that there's serious problems with it. 205 00:13:26,093 --> 00:13:29,493 Speaker 3: Just a quick word on geo thermal good. 206 00:13:30,933 --> 00:13:34,453 Speaker 5: We are developing more, and we should, but there's a 207 00:13:34,453 --> 00:13:38,053 Speaker 5: limit to how much we can develop. We don't quite 208 00:13:38,173 --> 00:13:41,253 Speaker 5: know what the limit is, but it's certainly good. 209 00:13:41,893 --> 00:13:44,933 Speaker 3: Is it likely to be hindered by other groups? 210 00:13:46,693 --> 00:13:51,453 Speaker 5: Probably if they spread out into new fields. All the 211 00:13:51,493 --> 00:13:56,213 Speaker 5: fields are being developed were identified years ago as promising 212 00:13:56,373 --> 00:14:00,253 Speaker 5: or better than promising. But there are other areas where 213 00:14:01,173 --> 00:14:05,133 Speaker 5: there may be a good resource which needs expiration drilling, right, 214 00:14:05,533 --> 00:14:07,013 Speaker 5: and there may be objections to that. 215 00:14:07,293 --> 00:14:11,013 Speaker 3: Now, all these these questions, and there are more, but 216 00:14:11,093 --> 00:14:15,173 Speaker 3: we've touched on I think the main ones. All these 217 00:14:15,253 --> 00:14:20,493 Speaker 3: questions need responses. So is there anything in place or 218 00:14:20,533 --> 00:14:24,453 Speaker 3: are you following any lines of shall we say, pursuit? 219 00:14:25,893 --> 00:14:29,413 Speaker 5: I it is a formal letter to a member of 220 00:14:29,453 --> 00:14:33,653 Speaker 5: the electricity authority what you've got in front of you? 221 00:14:33,693 --> 00:14:34,693 Speaker 3: But only one member? 222 00:14:35,733 --> 00:14:36,213 Speaker 4: Is that right? 223 00:14:36,933 --> 00:14:37,293 Speaker 3: Yes? 224 00:14:38,133 --> 00:14:41,813 Speaker 5: And I can't say I can't and will not say 225 00:14:41,813 --> 00:14:44,013 Speaker 5: who it is. No, that would be wrong, all right? 226 00:14:44,093 --> 00:14:46,813 Speaker 3: But is that one member in a position to be 227 00:14:47,493 --> 00:14:48,893 Speaker 3: able to influence the. 228 00:14:50,053 --> 00:14:52,413 Speaker 4: Authority reasonably high? Up? 229 00:14:53,053 --> 00:14:56,253 Speaker 3: Okay? This will be shall we say interesting? Now? There 230 00:14:56,293 --> 00:14:58,853 Speaker 3: is the other subject that I'm very keleen to talk about, 231 00:14:59,613 --> 00:15:06,333 Speaker 3: albeit probably briefly, is nuclear energy. And I've been I've 232 00:15:06,333 --> 00:15:10,013 Speaker 3: been keeping an eye on Australia and there is a 233 00:15:10,293 --> 00:15:14,373 Speaker 3: there is a what i'd call a major shifting attitude 234 00:15:14,373 --> 00:15:18,373 Speaker 3: in Australia from from people who were waking up to 235 00:15:18,493 --> 00:15:22,213 Speaker 3: the fact that nuclear is the answer. And there is 236 00:15:22,253 --> 00:15:24,653 Speaker 3: a There is also a what shall I call it 237 00:15:24,893 --> 00:15:29,333 Speaker 3: a quote, and it doesn't matter who said it, but 238 00:15:29,453 --> 00:15:36,613 Speaker 3: it was somebody of appropriate authority that without nuclear there 239 00:15:36,653 --> 00:15:39,893 Speaker 3: will be no net zero. You want net zero, you 240 00:15:39,973 --> 00:15:41,173 Speaker 3: have to include nuclear. 241 00:15:42,093 --> 00:15:42,293 Speaker 4: Yeah. 242 00:15:42,813 --> 00:15:44,253 Speaker 3: Has that applied to New Zealand? Two? 243 00:15:44,933 --> 00:15:45,253 Speaker 4: Do you think? 244 00:15:47,093 --> 00:15:47,293 Speaker 3: Yes? 245 00:15:48,453 --> 00:15:55,693 Speaker 5: Even geothermal imits carbon darkside, so jeering amounts, some feels 246 00:15:55,773 --> 00:15:57,333 Speaker 5: quite a lot and some not very much. 247 00:15:57,413 --> 00:15:59,613 Speaker 3: All right, what about this? What about this? This this 248 00:15:59,773 --> 00:16:04,853 Speaker 3: one question, and it's an obvious one, very obvious because 249 00:16:04,893 --> 00:16:09,013 Speaker 3: it's been around forever, that that is likely to have 250 00:16:09,053 --> 00:16:13,133 Speaker 3: an influence on members of the population, and that is 251 00:16:13,893 --> 00:16:19,053 Speaker 3: nuclear safety. How far have we advanced enormously? 252 00:16:21,133 --> 00:16:25,813 Speaker 5: And the fact is that in the Western world, no 253 00:16:26,293 --> 00:16:32,093 Speaker 5: nuclear station has killed anybody from radiation. Three Mile Islands 254 00:16:32,093 --> 00:16:35,013 Speaker 5: has cause of station to be shut down on a disaster. 255 00:16:35,933 --> 00:16:38,573 Speaker 5: You've got more radiation from spending a couple of hours 256 00:16:38,573 --> 00:16:44,853 Speaker 5: in Grand Central Station, which is made of granite whichmits radiation. Fukushima, 257 00:16:45,573 --> 00:16:52,533 Speaker 5: According to the International Sensus, nobody has or will die 258 00:16:52,693 --> 00:16:56,293 Speaker 5: of radiation from Fukushima, yet they shut down lots of 259 00:16:56,373 --> 00:17:02,373 Speaker 5: nuclear stations. The whole thing's crazy. It's seriously safe. It's 260 00:17:02,413 --> 00:17:06,333 Speaker 5: something like a hundred times safer than the next major 261 00:17:06,813 --> 00:17:10,693 Speaker 5: generating technology, certainly safer than large stamps. 262 00:17:10,773 --> 00:17:12,453 Speaker 4: They're very dangerous. 263 00:17:12,813 --> 00:17:16,413 Speaker 3: Well, my sister lived very close to three Mile Island 264 00:17:16,413 --> 00:17:20,293 Speaker 3: when it happened, and she her husband and the two 265 00:17:20,333 --> 00:17:24,613 Speaker 3: little kids who jumped in the car and left, as 266 00:17:25,173 --> 00:17:30,013 Speaker 3: did so many other people. Yeah, and then I can't 267 00:17:30,053 --> 00:17:32,093 Speaker 3: remember now how long it was before they moved back, 268 00:17:32,133 --> 00:17:37,373 Speaker 3: but they certainly did and seemed to have suffered no 269 00:17:37,453 --> 00:17:38,213 Speaker 3: ill effects. 270 00:17:38,813 --> 00:17:43,013 Speaker 5: Of course they wouldn't. They've probably probably less radiation than 271 00:17:43,053 --> 00:17:46,533 Speaker 5: what you've got from a long airline trip. What did 272 00:17:46,533 --> 00:17:47,053 Speaker 5: you go about. 273 00:17:47,933 --> 00:17:50,933 Speaker 4: Yeah, if you go up further up in the sky, 274 00:17:51,093 --> 00:17:53,613 Speaker 4: you get more radiation. Yeah. 275 00:17:53,853 --> 00:17:59,493 Speaker 5: No, it's the problem is that according to the rules, 276 00:18:00,013 --> 00:18:05,133 Speaker 5: they're not reality. Six thousand milli seabirds will kill you, 277 00:18:05,973 --> 00:18:08,813 Speaker 5: none will not hurt you, and three there and will 278 00:18:08,813 --> 00:18:12,893 Speaker 5: half kill you. So the more of it, the more dangerous. 279 00:18:12,973 --> 00:18:16,853 Speaker 5: Is The reality, which is well proven and well established, 280 00:18:17,613 --> 00:18:20,053 Speaker 5: is up to about three thousand, two or three thousand 281 00:18:20,133 --> 00:18:25,773 Speaker 5: millisivers are harmless. And the proof of that is medical radiation. 282 00:18:26,933 --> 00:18:32,573 Speaker 5: When you get radiated in some cancer, it's the cancer 283 00:18:32,613 --> 00:18:35,773 Speaker 5: itself is subject to a lethal dose of radiation. Six 284 00:18:35,853 --> 00:18:40,093 Speaker 5: thousand more more milionsiverts. These stuff just outside of the 285 00:18:40,173 --> 00:18:44,213 Speaker 5: cancer gets a very still gets a very high radiation dose. 286 00:18:44,373 --> 00:18:50,853 Speaker 5: You don't you can't suddenly cut it off. So all 287 00:18:50,893 --> 00:18:55,613 Speaker 5: the people who have radiation for cancer are radiated, also 288 00:18:55,653 --> 00:18:59,733 Speaker 5: get radiated healthy tissues, and their death rate is not 289 00:19:00,813 --> 00:19:05,893 Speaker 5: abnormally higher than normal. They don't die of radiation sickness 290 00:19:05,933 --> 00:19:11,173 Speaker 5: afterwards at all. Right, So the whole thing is based 291 00:19:11,213 --> 00:19:15,533 Speaker 5: on assumptions which are demonsterly not true, and it is 292 00:19:15,653 --> 00:19:16,613 Speaker 5: seriously safe. 293 00:19:17,653 --> 00:19:21,493 Speaker 3: Okay. My response to that, if I were of such 294 00:19:21,493 --> 00:19:26,013 Speaker 3: a mind, would be to say to you that convincing 295 00:19:26,133 --> 00:19:29,453 Speaker 3: people that it's safe is not going to happen because 296 00:19:29,493 --> 00:19:32,693 Speaker 3: we won't let it happen because we don't want we 297 00:19:32,733 --> 00:19:35,413 Speaker 3: don't want nuclear in New Zealand. End of story. And 298 00:19:35,493 --> 00:19:38,573 Speaker 3: so it will be the subject will be shut down, 299 00:19:39,053 --> 00:19:41,533 Speaker 3: the same as matters of climate change have been shut 300 00:19:41,573 --> 00:19:45,253 Speaker 3: down by the media and elsewhere. Is that the way 301 00:19:45,333 --> 00:19:46,133 Speaker 3: you see it? 302 00:19:48,133 --> 00:19:51,533 Speaker 5: No, I give quite a lot of public lectures on 303 00:19:51,653 --> 00:19:54,813 Speaker 5: net zero, the dream and the reality, and I usually 304 00:19:54,853 --> 00:19:57,853 Speaker 5: mention nuclear power, and I often ask the audience, which 305 00:19:57,853 --> 00:20:01,613 Speaker 5: is in the older age group, whether they think New 306 00:20:01,693 --> 00:20:07,413 Speaker 5: Zealand should be considering nuclear power, and from usually round 307 00:20:07,453 --> 00:20:10,133 Speaker 5: about a half foot they hands up. When I ask 308 00:20:10,733 --> 00:20:13,333 Speaker 5: who thinks we shouldn't, a few put the hands up. 309 00:20:14,773 --> 00:20:19,653 Speaker 5: It's something we should be talking about. If men made 310 00:20:19,693 --> 00:20:22,773 Speaker 5: carbon dioxide really is real and dangerous, which I don't believe, 311 00:20:23,373 --> 00:20:28,013 Speaker 5: it is the only satisfactory solution and an acceptable price 312 00:20:28,213 --> 00:20:29,973 Speaker 5: and an acceptable reliability. 313 00:20:30,333 --> 00:20:37,573 Speaker 3: By the way, Cop twenty nine is upcoming is I 314 00:20:37,653 --> 00:20:47,013 Speaker 3: can't help but laugh because after twenty nine cops, what 315 00:20:48,013 --> 00:20:49,853 Speaker 3: improvements have they made to the world. 316 00:20:51,053 --> 00:20:51,493 Speaker 4: None? 317 00:20:52,813 --> 00:20:55,933 Speaker 5: Last year, we've burnt more coal than we ever had before, 318 00:20:57,653 --> 00:21:02,933 Speaker 5: and give mean us or the world, the world, the 319 00:21:02,973 --> 00:21:07,053 Speaker 5: world more coal than ever has before. Consumption of oil 320 00:21:07,133 --> 00:21:11,493 Speaker 5: and gas is still going up, and people like us 321 00:21:11,493 --> 00:21:16,453 Speaker 5: are here poverishing ourselves in a feeble attempt to make 322 00:21:16,493 --> 00:21:18,253 Speaker 5: a tiny change to the world's climate. 323 00:21:18,373 --> 00:21:19,053 Speaker 4: It's crazy. 324 00:21:19,853 --> 00:21:20,773 Speaker 3: A tiny change. 325 00:21:20,893 --> 00:21:25,173 Speaker 4: Hey well, well not even that. I suggest no change, 326 00:21:25,533 --> 00:21:28,173 Speaker 4: no change, Yeah, no measurable change. 327 00:21:27,973 --> 00:21:30,853 Speaker 3: That'll do. I'll settle to no measurables. 328 00:21:31,333 --> 00:21:31,693 Speaker 4: Yeah. 329 00:21:31,733 --> 00:21:36,133 Speaker 3: Well, it's it's a fascinating life. We're living at the moment. 330 00:21:36,493 --> 00:21:40,413 Speaker 3: May what's the Chinese saying, May you live in interesting times? 331 00:21:40,973 --> 00:21:44,493 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a curse. By the way, we're certainly living 332 00:21:44,493 --> 00:21:47,013 Speaker 5: in interesting times. There's no doubt about that exactly. And 333 00:21:47,013 --> 00:21:48,413 Speaker 5: it's going to get more interesting. 334 00:21:49,373 --> 00:21:53,253 Speaker 3: Oh, I think so, Brian appreciate it. Thank you, hips, 335 00:21:53,933 --> 00:21:54,413 Speaker 3: and we'll. 336 00:21:54,293 --> 00:21:56,253 Speaker 2: Talk you very much. We shall love you to talk 337 00:21:56,293 --> 00:22:07,933 Speaker 2: to you always. We'll talk again, Layton Smith. 338 00:22:09,533 --> 00:22:13,973 Speaker 3: Leverrix is an antihistamine made in Switzerland to the highest quality. 339 00:22:14,213 --> 00:22:18,053 Speaker 3: Leverx relieves hay fever and skin allergies or itchy skin. 340 00:22:18,533 --> 00:22:22,853 Speaker 3: It's a dual action antihistamine and has a unique nasal 341 00:22:23,053 --> 00:22:27,693 Speaker 3: decongestent action. It's fast acting for fast relief and it 342 00:22:27,773 --> 00:22:30,853 Speaker 3: works in under an hour and lasts for over twenty 343 00:22:30,893 --> 00:22:34,693 Speaker 3: four hours. Leverrix is a tiny tablet that unblocks the nose, 344 00:22:35,013 --> 00:22:38,933 Speaker 3: deals with itchy eyes, and stops sneezing. Leverrix is an 345 00:22:38,933 --> 00:22:43,253 Speaker 3: antihistamine made in Switzerland to the highest quantity. So next 346 00:22:43,333 --> 00:22:46,853 Speaker 3: time you're in need of an effective antihistamine, call into 347 00:22:46,893 --> 00:22:52,973 Speaker 3: the pharmacy and ask for Leverix lv Rix levrix and 348 00:22:53,093 --> 00:22:56,733 Speaker 3: always read the label. Takes directed and if symptoms persist, 349 00:22:56,933 --> 00:23:05,733 Speaker 3: see your health professional Farmer broker Auckland. Christian Smith is 350 00:23:06,053 --> 00:23:10,133 Speaker 3: a New Zealander. He's an X at least for the moment. 351 00:23:10,413 --> 00:23:13,013 Speaker 3: He lives in London. He works in London. He is 352 00:23:13,093 --> 00:23:17,293 Speaker 3: a lawyer. Spent a couple of years working for a 353 00:23:17,333 --> 00:23:21,613 Speaker 3: top law firm in Auckland, then went to London and 354 00:23:21,613 --> 00:23:24,573 Speaker 3: decided he wanted to be in media, so he did 355 00:23:24,613 --> 00:23:28,373 Speaker 3: some studies in journalism and now he is a lawyer 356 00:23:28,773 --> 00:23:33,453 Speaker 3: journalist and he has a family background of media. His 357 00:23:33,493 --> 00:23:37,333 Speaker 3: father is moderately successful in the New Zealand radio market. 358 00:23:38,093 --> 00:23:44,373 Speaker 3: Now it is fifteen months since we spoke in London. 359 00:23:44,733 --> 00:23:48,053 Speaker 3: Fifteen months and I don't know where it's gone, but 360 00:23:48,093 --> 00:23:51,893 Speaker 3: it's down the drain. And we did a very interesting 361 00:23:52,373 --> 00:23:56,333 Speaker 3: We had a very interesting conversation on the podcast and 362 00:23:56,373 --> 00:23:59,213 Speaker 3: a lot of people appreciated it. This was about life 363 00:23:59,253 --> 00:24:03,573 Speaker 3: in London and for expats from here moving over there. Now, 364 00:24:03,893 --> 00:24:08,133 Speaker 3: my belief is that based partly on a couple of 365 00:24:08,493 --> 00:24:10,253 Speaker 3: lines that I'll read you at a moment, but my 366 00:24:10,333 --> 00:24:14,373 Speaker 3: belief is that things have changed somewhat in the last 367 00:24:14,413 --> 00:24:18,893 Speaker 3: fifteen months, not necessarily in fact, I'll say not for 368 00:24:18,933 --> 00:24:22,053 Speaker 3: the better and by the way, welcome to the podcast. 369 00:24:22,173 --> 00:24:25,013 Speaker 6: How right am I? Well, thank you for having me back. 370 00:24:25,293 --> 00:24:27,413 Speaker 6: Not particularly not particularly right. 371 00:24:27,493 --> 00:24:32,773 Speaker 3: Sorry. What's changed in fifteen months? I would say, having. 372 00:24:32,533 --> 00:24:34,733 Speaker 6: Read those articles you referred to, I would say many 373 00:24:34,773 --> 00:24:37,653 Speaker 6: of the problems they talk about were there before. I 374 00:24:37,653 --> 00:24:40,213 Speaker 6: don't think much has changed in the last fifteen months really. 375 00:24:40,933 --> 00:24:42,973 Speaker 6: I think, I mean, we can come onto politics in 376 00:24:43,013 --> 00:24:45,613 Speaker 6: a minute in the sense that is a new government 377 00:24:45,653 --> 00:24:48,973 Speaker 6: after the election in July, and that will or may 378 00:24:49,333 --> 00:24:53,573 Speaker 6: bring about big, big changes, but particularly on a kind 379 00:24:53,573 --> 00:24:59,133 Speaker 6: of micro personal lifestyle level, not much has really changed. 380 00:24:59,173 --> 00:25:03,773 Speaker 6: Of course, the UK went through plenty of issues surrounding 381 00:25:05,933 --> 00:25:08,853 Speaker 6: the cost of living and pandemic and said over the 382 00:25:08,893 --> 00:25:11,973 Speaker 6: last sort of eight years or so, a lot of 383 00:25:12,013 --> 00:25:15,253 Speaker 6: those issues still exist. I think, perhaps of anything, what's 384 00:25:15,293 --> 00:25:17,333 Speaker 6: changed in the last for fifteen months is things seem 385 00:25:17,413 --> 00:25:20,573 Speaker 6: to have calmed down a wee bit. Inflation is down. 386 00:25:20,613 --> 00:25:23,693 Speaker 6: It's back down to kind of pre pandemic levels I 387 00:25:23,693 --> 00:25:26,973 Speaker 6: believe was around two percent and the most recent numbers, 388 00:25:26,973 --> 00:25:30,093 Speaker 6: which is obviously around where they target it. Cost of 389 00:25:30,133 --> 00:25:32,773 Speaker 6: living is still a big issue, but it does feel 390 00:25:32,933 --> 00:25:36,613 Speaker 6: less intense for people. I think people have adjusted, but 391 00:25:36,733 --> 00:25:38,493 Speaker 6: also it's easy for me to say that as a 392 00:25:38,653 --> 00:25:42,533 Speaker 6: kind of single individual not having to support a family, 393 00:25:42,853 --> 00:25:45,373 Speaker 6: the job market is I am mixed reports. 394 00:25:45,373 --> 00:25:49,053 Speaker 3: It's all right, I think, you know, generally things are 395 00:25:49,133 --> 00:25:53,293 Speaker 3: much the same, I suppose. Okay, So the two articles 396 00:25:53,333 --> 00:25:56,453 Speaker 3: I'm talking about, we're both in the Telegraph a couple 397 00:25:56,453 --> 00:25:59,053 Speaker 3: of days apart. First one is it's time for the 398 00:25:59,133 --> 00:26:02,773 Speaker 3: young and ambitious to leave Brittain. Fly into Britain through Heathrow, 399 00:26:02,893 --> 00:26:04,533 Speaker 3: and one of the first things you'll see on getting 400 00:26:04,533 --> 00:26:06,413 Speaker 3: off the plane is a helpful sign pointing a little 401 00:26:06,413 --> 00:26:09,413 Speaker 3: way to the baggage reclaim. Looking ahead to the budget, 402 00:26:09,813 --> 00:26:13,413 Speaker 3: it might be worth adding a second, larger sign, abandon 403 00:26:13,573 --> 00:26:17,853 Speaker 3: all hope ye who pay tax here ahead of the budget. 404 00:26:18,093 --> 00:26:20,493 Speaker 3: The only element that appears to be in doubt is 405 00:26:20,653 --> 00:26:25,013 Speaker 3: just how much Chancellor Rachel Reeves intends to raise taxes. 406 00:26:25,053 --> 00:26:29,133 Speaker 3: By the Institute of Physical Studies thinks we're in for 407 00:26:29,613 --> 00:26:34,293 Speaker 3: twenty five billion pounds in tax rises. The Bank of 408 00:26:34,333 --> 00:26:39,373 Speaker 3: America suggests thirty five billion. Is this of great concern 409 00:26:39,453 --> 00:26:40,973 Speaker 3: to you and your colleagues. 410 00:26:41,773 --> 00:26:44,133 Speaker 6: I think you can take that into two Take that 411 00:26:44,213 --> 00:26:47,933 Speaker 6: question into two parts. The first part of abandon all hope, 412 00:26:48,053 --> 00:26:49,853 Speaker 6: you know watch the situation on the ground, and the 413 00:26:49,893 --> 00:26:53,253 Speaker 6: second part being the budget. I think to the short 414 00:26:53,293 --> 00:26:56,293 Speaker 6: answer to the budget question is sort of twofold. First 415 00:26:56,293 --> 00:26:58,653 Speaker 6: of all, the government here has sort of pledged not 416 00:26:58,773 --> 00:27:01,933 Speaker 6: to raise taxes on working people. There's a huge kind 417 00:27:01,933 --> 00:27:04,133 Speaker 6: of ridiculous debate going on in the media at the 418 00:27:04,133 --> 00:27:07,693 Speaker 6: moment about what a working person is because the labor 419 00:27:07,693 --> 00:27:10,413 Speaker 6: government tried very hard not to mention working class during 420 00:27:10,413 --> 00:27:12,613 Speaker 6: the election campaign because that nobody really wants to talk 421 00:27:12,613 --> 00:27:13,933 Speaker 6: about class anymore apparently. 422 00:27:15,653 --> 00:27:17,933 Speaker 3: But generally speaking, it's the. 423 00:27:17,853 --> 00:27:20,853 Speaker 6: Budget comes out on the Davis podcast comes out, I believe, 424 00:27:20,933 --> 00:27:23,133 Speaker 6: so in many ways we're sort of floating in the 425 00:27:23,213 --> 00:27:26,453 Speaker 6: year before that. It's quite a hush hush thing over here. 426 00:27:26,493 --> 00:27:29,173 Speaker 6: Before the budget comes out. They leak a thing or 427 00:27:29,253 --> 00:27:31,933 Speaker 6: two on purpose. But apart from that, but I think 428 00:27:32,333 --> 00:27:36,093 Speaker 6: the tax rerisers look set to mainly go on businesses, 429 00:27:36,773 --> 00:27:39,893 Speaker 6: things like inheritance tax, that sort of thing. It seems 430 00:27:39,893 --> 00:27:44,253 Speaker 6: almost very unlikely to go on your average pay earner. 431 00:27:45,013 --> 00:27:47,093 Speaker 6: So in terms of our I me and my colleagues 432 00:27:47,173 --> 00:27:52,893 Speaker 6: concerned about that, not particularly at the moment. If you 433 00:27:52,933 --> 00:27:55,253 Speaker 6: want to take the question of abandon all faith, you 434 00:27:55,373 --> 00:27:58,373 Speaker 6: who pay taxes here or you know people who are here. 435 00:27:58,493 --> 00:28:01,213 Speaker 6: I mean that I think I think I find it 436 00:28:01,333 --> 00:28:04,893 Speaker 6: very hard to take a broad brush approach to kind 437 00:28:04,933 --> 00:28:07,573 Speaker 6: of economic issues in the UK. I think it's so 438 00:28:07,813 --> 00:28:10,133 Speaker 6: dependent on what you do and what you're trying to 439 00:28:10,133 --> 00:28:13,853 Speaker 6: do here. You know, if you're if you're an average 440 00:28:14,013 --> 00:28:18,693 Speaker 6: average worker, things are generally pretty tough in terms of 441 00:28:19,973 --> 00:28:21,933 Speaker 6: you know, cost of living and that sort of thing. 442 00:28:21,933 --> 00:28:24,133 Speaker 6: If you're running a business, I hear it's it's it's. 443 00:28:24,053 --> 00:28:28,573 Speaker 3: Very very tough. Well, what you've just said is is 444 00:28:28,893 --> 00:28:31,853 Speaker 3: pretty damn serious. I would have thought, I if the 445 00:28:32,453 --> 00:28:34,573 Speaker 3: cost of living is as high as you're talking, well, 446 00:28:34,613 --> 00:28:36,853 Speaker 3: I know it is, having having been there just fifteen 447 00:28:36,893 --> 00:28:39,493 Speaker 3: months ago, But has it noticeably gone up at all? 448 00:28:40,373 --> 00:28:42,453 Speaker 3: Since I wouldn't say, I wouldn't say in the last 449 00:28:42,453 --> 00:28:42,973 Speaker 3: fifteen months. 450 00:28:42,973 --> 00:28:44,733 Speaker 6: I mean, I think there's a statistic that I think 451 00:28:44,813 --> 00:28:47,213 Speaker 6: is a really interesting one, which is that per capita 452 00:28:47,333 --> 00:28:50,613 Speaker 6: in the UK GDP per capita now in the UK 453 00:28:50,813 --> 00:28:53,653 Speaker 6: is closer to Poland than it is to the US. 454 00:28:54,413 --> 00:28:56,093 Speaker 6: And I think there was something I read not that 455 00:28:56,173 --> 00:28:58,853 Speaker 6: long ago that suggested that Poland might catch up and 456 00:28:59,013 --> 00:29:02,173 Speaker 6: or overtake the UK in terms of gdp per capita 457 00:29:02,813 --> 00:29:05,573 Speaker 6: in the near future. Now, I think that sort of 458 00:29:05,573 --> 00:29:08,653 Speaker 6: does a disservice to how well the Polish economies been 459 00:29:08,653 --> 00:29:10,133 Speaker 6: doing in the last decade or so. 460 00:29:10,253 --> 00:29:12,053 Speaker 3: It's been doing very very well. 461 00:29:12,213 --> 00:29:16,293 Speaker 6: But given the sort of impression that the UK has 462 00:29:16,333 --> 00:29:19,253 Speaker 6: and how it's you know, what the UK is used 463 00:29:19,253 --> 00:29:22,413 Speaker 6: to being in the world as in a leading first 464 00:29:22,453 --> 00:29:26,693 Speaker 6: world economy, I mean that says quite a lot. I 465 00:29:26,733 --> 00:29:31,813 Speaker 6: think there are major, major issues economically, and I'm not 466 00:29:31,853 --> 00:29:35,733 Speaker 6: an economist, but there are major economic issues with the 467 00:29:35,853 --> 00:29:38,213 Speaker 6: UK and a lot of that comes down to, you know, 468 00:29:38,573 --> 00:29:44,813 Speaker 6: I think relatively boring policy related things like planning, laws 469 00:29:43,093 --> 00:29:49,333 Speaker 6: and access and that sort of thing. But that is 470 00:29:49,853 --> 00:29:53,853 Speaker 6: where a lot of the problems arise. Well, it is 471 00:29:53,933 --> 00:29:58,653 Speaker 6: so in practically every other country in the world. As 472 00:29:58,733 --> 00:30:01,813 Speaker 6: you say, the budget, the budget comes out, we've after 473 00:30:01,853 --> 00:30:07,173 Speaker 6: we've done this podcast, But is there anything likely on 474 00:30:07,213 --> 00:30:11,533 Speaker 6: the budget frontline that would encourage you to go to Portugal? 475 00:30:12,173 --> 00:30:12,333 Speaker 4: Oh? 476 00:30:12,373 --> 00:30:14,453 Speaker 6: I see, I mean personally no, I think I think 477 00:30:14,493 --> 00:30:16,213 Speaker 6: it's worth saying that. You know, I love the UK. 478 00:30:16,333 --> 00:30:19,133 Speaker 6: I've been here for six years now and it's it's 479 00:30:19,253 --> 00:30:23,173 Speaker 6: it's fantastic. I also think it's probably important so we 480 00:30:23,253 --> 00:30:26,093 Speaker 6: might come on to this later that you know, kind 481 00:30:26,093 --> 00:30:30,093 Speaker 6: of self sort of internal naval gazing and doom and 482 00:30:30,133 --> 00:30:35,733 Speaker 6: gloom mongering amongst you know, the chattering classes say in 483 00:30:35,773 --> 00:30:38,173 Speaker 6: the UK it's a national and across the country it's 484 00:30:38,173 --> 00:30:39,253 Speaker 6: a national pastime. 485 00:30:39,733 --> 00:30:41,453 Speaker 3: So sort of talking. 486 00:30:41,133 --> 00:30:44,653 Speaker 6: About how everything is just awful and we're all doomed 487 00:30:44,813 --> 00:30:46,973 Speaker 6: is just something that has gone on in the UK 488 00:30:47,653 --> 00:30:49,013 Speaker 6: for the last eighty years. 489 00:30:49,053 --> 00:30:50,213 Speaker 3: It just it just happens. 490 00:30:50,493 --> 00:30:52,213 Speaker 6: So I think every time you kind of hear about 491 00:30:52,213 --> 00:30:55,133 Speaker 6: how horrible things are, probably need to take everything with 492 00:30:55,173 --> 00:30:57,933 Speaker 6: a pinch of salt in that sense in saying that 493 00:30:58,613 --> 00:31:00,693 Speaker 6: there is still a sense of gloom over the country. 494 00:31:00,693 --> 00:31:02,053 Speaker 6: In terms of you know, people want to I can 495 00:31:02,133 --> 00:31:04,773 Speaker 6: understand why there's this sort of dry for people to 496 00:31:04,813 --> 00:31:07,853 Speaker 6: move to Portugal, and that's not a purely UK thing. 497 00:31:07,893 --> 00:31:09,253 Speaker 6: You know, they're plenty of people who want to go 498 00:31:09,253 --> 00:31:12,173 Speaker 6: and do the digital nomad thing nowadays who might want 499 00:31:12,213 --> 00:31:15,173 Speaker 6: to go to other countries and you know where they're 500 00:31:15,173 --> 00:31:18,253 Speaker 6: more encouraged to go, like Canada, like the Netherlands where 501 00:31:18,253 --> 00:31:20,773 Speaker 6: they give them tax breaks or it's easier to get visas, 502 00:31:21,653 --> 00:31:25,053 Speaker 6: and that you know, it's you're sort of treated in 503 00:31:25,093 --> 00:31:28,813 Speaker 6: an immigration sense, you're welcomes rather than seen, as you know, 504 00:31:29,413 --> 00:31:31,613 Speaker 6: to being one of the many people who have come 505 00:31:31,653 --> 00:31:34,573 Speaker 6: in that year. There's still a sense here that nothing 506 00:31:34,853 --> 00:31:37,773 Speaker 6: works in the public service sector. You know, Trains are 507 00:31:37,773 --> 00:31:41,573 Speaker 6: regularly delayed or canceled. There have been strikes over the 508 00:31:41,613 --> 00:31:43,973 Speaker 6: last few years. Many of them have just sort of ended, 509 00:31:44,013 --> 00:31:49,373 Speaker 6: hopefully for good, but they'd likely a huge well, we'll see, 510 00:31:49,373 --> 00:31:50,653 Speaker 6: but that's been a huge issue. 511 00:31:50,853 --> 00:31:51,013 Speaker 3: You know. 512 00:31:51,053 --> 00:31:53,413 Speaker 6: It seems that no sooner has one section of the 513 00:31:53,453 --> 00:31:56,653 Speaker 6: tube been reopened after repairs, that another one has shut. 514 00:31:56,733 --> 00:31:59,813 Speaker 6: I actually I got I got an email from Transport 515 00:31:59,893 --> 00:32:03,653 Speaker 6: for London about our local tube line escalator that was 516 00:32:03,693 --> 00:32:08,693 Speaker 6: being shut for maintenance next month for three months. And 517 00:32:08,893 --> 00:32:11,613 Speaker 6: I'm not an expert, but I don't understand why one 518 00:32:11,773 --> 00:32:17,493 Speaker 6: escalator takes three months to fix. And you know, it's 519 00:32:17,613 --> 00:32:19,973 Speaker 6: the stories with buying a house here as well. Is 520 00:32:20,053 --> 00:32:22,093 Speaker 6: much like New Zealand. It's very hard for young people, 521 00:32:22,093 --> 00:32:24,933 Speaker 6: particularly in jobs where you know, traditionally forty years ago 522 00:32:24,973 --> 00:32:27,133 Speaker 6: it would have been fine to buy a house in 523 00:32:27,133 --> 00:32:31,693 Speaker 6: that job. There are huge issues with water companies polluting 524 00:32:31,693 --> 00:32:35,853 Speaker 6: into rivers. The NHS National Health Service is still a 525 00:32:35,933 --> 00:32:38,973 Speaker 6: disaster zone really, so there is the sense that nothing 526 00:32:39,053 --> 00:32:41,893 Speaker 6: really worked. I suppose that's just not that's not new 527 00:32:42,133 --> 00:32:44,213 Speaker 6: since last year, and I. 528 00:32:44,173 --> 00:32:46,333 Speaker 3: Got the impression that the NHS is in worse shape 529 00:32:46,373 --> 00:32:49,493 Speaker 3: now than it was fifteen months ago. It's on a declaim. 530 00:32:50,173 --> 00:32:50,573 Speaker 3: I mean, I. 531 00:32:50,573 --> 00:32:52,333 Speaker 6: Suppose you could say that that is true in the 532 00:32:52,373 --> 00:32:56,013 Speaker 6: sense that it's still headed in the same direction. I mean, 533 00:32:56,013 --> 00:33:00,133 Speaker 6: it depends which report you read and which anecdotal piece 534 00:33:00,173 --> 00:33:02,813 Speaker 6: of evidence you take, and who you're asking it which time, 535 00:33:02,853 --> 00:33:04,493 Speaker 6: whether it's in winter or somewhere or whatever. 536 00:33:04,533 --> 00:33:06,573 Speaker 3: I mean. The new government. 537 00:33:07,933 --> 00:33:10,973 Speaker 6: Started to review into the NAGS, which has recently completed 538 00:33:10,973 --> 00:33:12,933 Speaker 6: a kind of root and branch what's going on, what's 539 00:33:12,973 --> 00:33:13,613 Speaker 6: going on with it? 540 00:33:14,053 --> 00:33:15,733 Speaker 3: How can we make it fit for the future. 541 00:33:16,013 --> 00:33:18,733 Speaker 6: And the review is very damning to no one's surprised, 542 00:33:18,733 --> 00:33:21,773 Speaker 6: I think, with the least surprising thing that has come 543 00:33:21,813 --> 00:33:24,573 Speaker 6: out of government reviews ever. But you think, you know, 544 00:33:24,853 --> 00:33:26,853 Speaker 6: I know, there are obviously problems in New Zealand as well, 545 00:33:26,893 --> 00:33:29,773 Speaker 6: but things like wait times here are just extraordinary. You know, 546 00:33:30,173 --> 00:33:33,653 Speaker 6: people genuinely fear god having to go to A and 547 00:33:33,653 --> 00:33:35,653 Speaker 6: E because they know they're going to be there for 548 00:33:35,933 --> 00:33:38,773 Speaker 6: hours and hours and hours. So According to this report, 549 00:33:40,093 --> 00:33:43,213 Speaker 6: waiting times in A and E, ten percent of patients 550 00:33:43,413 --> 00:33:46,413 Speaker 6: wait twelve hours or more to be seen, and the 551 00:33:46,493 --> 00:33:49,573 Speaker 6: waiting times in A and E are estimated to contribute 552 00:33:49,613 --> 00:33:54,173 Speaker 6: to fourteen thousand deaths a year that could have been prevented. 553 00:33:53,813 --> 00:33:56,533 Speaker 3: If those waiting times weren't there. I mean, that's extraordinary, 554 00:33:57,413 --> 00:34:03,013 Speaker 3: extraordinarily terrible. And yet there are people who still think 555 00:34:03,013 --> 00:34:05,373 Speaker 3: that it's the best health service in the world. 556 00:34:05,493 --> 00:34:07,693 Speaker 6: Well, I think, I mean, I think that's interesting because 557 00:34:07,773 --> 00:34:10,853 Speaker 6: in many way the NHS is and I might have 558 00:34:10,853 --> 00:34:13,173 Speaker 6: said this last time we spoke, the NHS is kind 559 00:34:13,173 --> 00:34:14,973 Speaker 6: of the closest thing the UK now has to a 560 00:34:15,053 --> 00:34:19,453 Speaker 6: national religion, and until recently, to criticize the idea of 561 00:34:19,533 --> 00:34:24,853 Speaker 6: it was unheard of. But I think what has really happened, 562 00:34:24,853 --> 00:34:27,573 Speaker 6: and partly this was driven by the kind of wake 563 00:34:27,653 --> 00:34:29,693 Speaker 6: up call. Well it was worse than a wake up 564 00:34:29,733 --> 00:34:34,093 Speaker 6: call that COVID was, But there is now a kind 565 00:34:34,093 --> 00:34:36,973 Speaker 6: of acceptance that there needs to be serious structural change 566 00:34:36,973 --> 00:34:38,933 Speaker 6: and that's what the current government is saying to make 567 00:34:38,973 --> 00:34:43,773 Speaker 6: it serviceable, because it just is not working at the moment. 568 00:34:43,933 --> 00:34:47,493 Speaker 3: Well, question is the current government, which is a left 569 00:34:47,533 --> 00:34:52,733 Speaker 3: wing government, capable of even approaching that little and succeeding. Well, 570 00:34:53,253 --> 00:34:55,653 Speaker 3: the proof will be in the pudding, I suppose. I mean, 571 00:34:56,053 --> 00:34:58,733 Speaker 3: they had this report into the health service. They're now 572 00:34:58,773 --> 00:35:01,413 Speaker 3: considering how to implement Chambers. But I think changes. But 573 00:35:01,453 --> 00:35:04,573 Speaker 3: I think that much in the same way as the budget. 574 00:35:04,613 --> 00:35:06,773 Speaker 3: You know, the kind of messaging from the new government 575 00:35:06,813 --> 00:35:09,693 Speaker 3: which is sort of adding to the sense of gloom 576 00:35:09,693 --> 00:35:12,173 Speaker 3: across the board is things are going to get worse 577 00:35:12,213 --> 00:35:14,813 Speaker 3: before they get better. You know, there needs to be 578 00:35:14,853 --> 00:35:19,893 Speaker 3: significant investment in not just a public services, but also 579 00:35:20,173 --> 00:35:23,573 Speaker 3: just sort of the country and the economy, and that's 580 00:35:23,613 --> 00:35:26,173 Speaker 3: going to cost money and take time, and there's you know, 581 00:35:26,333 --> 00:35:29,253 Speaker 3: the main message from the government is that they're trying 582 00:35:29,293 --> 00:35:33,053 Speaker 3: to get across is that enough of this quick fix idea, 583 00:35:33,173 --> 00:35:36,813 Speaker 3: Let's actually look at properly how to long term fix 584 00:35:36,853 --> 00:35:40,293 Speaker 3: the problems at the country faces, which sounds like a 585 00:35:40,373 --> 00:35:42,653 Speaker 3: very sensible approach. I think just at the moment they 586 00:35:42,653 --> 00:35:46,333 Speaker 3: are struggling somewhat to convey exactly what that will look 587 00:35:46,453 --> 00:35:48,813 Speaker 3: like and convince people that they know how to do it. 588 00:35:49,333 --> 00:35:53,453 Speaker 3: That could possibly be because it's exactly true, they don't 589 00:35:53,493 --> 00:35:55,333 Speaker 3: know how to do it well. 590 00:35:55,373 --> 00:35:58,293 Speaker 6: I mean, look, I think that the honeymoon period for 591 00:35:58,293 --> 00:36:00,453 Speaker 6: the government that was elected in July did not last 592 00:36:00,493 --> 00:36:01,293 Speaker 6: particularly long. 593 00:36:01,333 --> 00:36:03,293 Speaker 3: They have been plagued by a series of issues. 594 00:36:03,333 --> 00:36:07,133 Speaker 6: I think it's fair to remember though, that to point 595 00:36:07,173 --> 00:36:10,893 Speaker 6: out perhaps that you know, kind of labor governments tend 596 00:36:10,933 --> 00:36:13,733 Speaker 6: to have to meet a higher standard in the public 597 00:36:13,773 --> 00:36:16,133 Speaker 6: eye than conservative governments. I mean, the UK is a 598 00:36:16,213 --> 00:36:20,333 Speaker 6: conservative country with a large sea in the sense that 599 00:36:21,213 --> 00:36:25,733 Speaker 6: I think since the war that the Conservative Party has 600 00:36:25,733 --> 00:36:29,093 Speaker 6: been in power for basically double the time that Labor 601 00:36:29,133 --> 00:36:32,853 Speaker 6: Party has been in power. People inherently think of the 602 00:36:32,893 --> 00:36:36,213 Speaker 6: Conservative Party as a as the party of government, and 603 00:36:36,253 --> 00:36:38,413 Speaker 6: so that means that the Labor Party has sort of 604 00:36:38,453 --> 00:36:42,573 Speaker 6: held to higher standards in general. We might disagree about that, 605 00:36:43,173 --> 00:36:48,413 Speaker 6: but I think that is generally seen as not an 606 00:36:48,533 --> 00:36:51,733 Speaker 6: uncommon opinion. But that means that, you know, to kind 607 00:36:51,733 --> 00:36:53,373 Speaker 6: of achieve the things they want to achieve, they have 608 00:36:53,413 --> 00:36:55,133 Speaker 6: to really make a good go of it. Otherwise people 609 00:36:55,173 --> 00:36:56,933 Speaker 6: are going to look at what, you know, in five 610 00:36:56,973 --> 00:36:59,293 Speaker 6: years time when there's another election and say you haven't 611 00:36:59,333 --> 00:37:02,653 Speaker 6: really done anything, will vote you well. And that's the 612 00:37:02,693 --> 00:37:05,413 Speaker 6: case across kind of Europe and a lot of the West, 613 00:37:05,533 --> 00:37:10,293 Speaker 6: where you know, the two major parties aren't really offering 614 00:37:10,573 --> 00:37:14,733 Speaker 6: much change and haven't really been great at it since 615 00:37:14,773 --> 00:37:15,373 Speaker 6: the GFC. 616 00:37:16,293 --> 00:37:20,413 Speaker 3: The second article from the Telegraph headed a very nice 617 00:37:20,453 --> 00:37:23,173 Speaker 3: life for a lot less money. Why young people are 618 00:37:23,213 --> 00:37:27,533 Speaker 3: fleeing high tax Britain and the tax is going to 619 00:37:27,533 --> 00:37:30,333 Speaker 3: get even high by the look of it. So as 620 00:37:30,373 --> 00:37:32,493 Speaker 3: an example of a fellow called Charlie Baron who moved 621 00:37:32,493 --> 00:37:35,293 Speaker 3: from London to Lisbon last year, he wanted to leave 622 00:37:35,333 --> 00:37:37,733 Speaker 3: Britain as much as he wanted to go to Portugal. 623 00:37:38,813 --> 00:37:42,693 Speaker 3: And then he gets into how much it costs to 624 00:37:42,693 --> 00:37:45,733 Speaker 3: set up a company and do business and what have you, 625 00:37:46,293 --> 00:37:49,893 Speaker 3: but he talks of the advantages, the lifestyle advantages. Also, 626 00:37:51,013 --> 00:37:54,453 Speaker 3: Portugal is a country that I've heard more and more 627 00:37:54,613 --> 00:38:00,213 Speaker 3: about favorably over the last few years, and possibly possibly 628 00:38:00,373 --> 00:38:04,453 Speaker 3: any other country. But getting back to wine, getting back 629 00:38:04,493 --> 00:38:07,213 Speaker 3: to what you are closer to it than me, so 630 00:38:07,293 --> 00:38:11,293 Speaker 3: you might have a better idea getting back to Britain itself, 631 00:38:12,533 --> 00:38:15,813 Speaker 3: which is part of the reason that young people are 632 00:38:15,853 --> 00:38:22,773 Speaker 3: being encouraged or are fleeing from Britain. Some thirty percent 633 00:38:22,853 --> 00:38:25,453 Speaker 3: of eighteen to twenty four year olds want to move abroad, 634 00:38:25,933 --> 00:38:29,893 Speaker 3: according to a UGOV survey that was earlier this year. 635 00:38:30,093 --> 00:38:32,413 Speaker 3: What's more, more than a third of British people believe 636 00:38:32,453 --> 00:38:36,493 Speaker 3: that they are right too, and that young people face 637 00:38:36,533 --> 00:38:40,093 Speaker 3: a brighter future that if they emigrate. At a survey 638 00:38:40,133 --> 00:38:43,973 Speaker 3: from job a job site indeed, what would you call 639 00:38:44,013 --> 00:38:47,293 Speaker 3: a job site? Indeed found almost two thirds of Britain 640 00:38:48,253 --> 00:38:52,573 Speaker 3: would consider working abroad. Two thirds rise into an astronomical 641 00:38:52,653 --> 00:38:57,413 Speaker 3: three quarters among eighteen to twenty four year olds. Suggested 642 00:38:57,493 --> 00:39:02,013 Speaker 3: a widespread dissatisfaction with life in the UK. And I 643 00:39:02,013 --> 00:39:07,173 Speaker 3: could go on giving you more ugly statistics like that. 644 00:39:08,973 --> 00:39:12,253 Speaker 3: There's examples of couples with kids all wanting to get 645 00:39:12,253 --> 00:39:14,693 Speaker 3: out of Britain because the schooling's not so good. They 646 00:39:14,693 --> 00:39:18,333 Speaker 3: think it's probably better elsewhere. Christian, I just say that 647 00:39:18,453 --> 00:39:22,773 Speaker 3: I think I think that I've learned something recently, and 648 00:39:22,813 --> 00:39:25,173 Speaker 3: that is that. And you touched on this in a 649 00:39:25,213 --> 00:39:27,613 Speaker 3: round about way a moment ago, and that is that 650 00:39:28,653 --> 00:39:31,173 Speaker 3: it's a case of the grass on the other side 651 00:39:31,173 --> 00:39:35,253 Speaker 3: of the fence looking greener. But in some cases it 652 00:39:35,333 --> 00:39:39,773 Speaker 3: happens to be true. You've got friends in Amsterdam. Why 653 00:39:39,813 --> 00:39:41,973 Speaker 3: did they go there? How long have they been there 654 00:39:42,373 --> 00:39:45,373 Speaker 3: and why do they stay? 655 00:39:45,853 --> 00:39:48,093 Speaker 6: I do They've probably been there around the same amount 656 00:39:48,093 --> 00:39:51,093 Speaker 6: of time I've been in London. I think some of 657 00:39:51,133 --> 00:39:54,293 Speaker 6: them went somewhat for family reasons, you know, they had 658 00:39:54,293 --> 00:39:56,613 Speaker 6: family there as well. But I mean, Amsterdam is an 659 00:39:56,653 --> 00:40:01,333 Speaker 6: interesting country which is much more welcomes, shall we say, 660 00:40:01,453 --> 00:40:07,413 Speaker 6: highly educates people with tax breaks when they get there 661 00:40:07,453 --> 00:40:11,533 Speaker 6: for the first kind of between twenty months and five years, 662 00:40:11,573 --> 00:40:15,133 Speaker 6: in an effort to bring in kind of to attract 663 00:40:15,133 --> 00:40:18,133 Speaker 6: those sorts of people Canada does. I don't know about 664 00:40:18,133 --> 00:40:22,973 Speaker 6: tax breaks, but they make visas much easier. I mean, 665 00:40:23,013 --> 00:40:25,933 Speaker 6: talking about young people in the UK wanting to move abroad, 666 00:40:26,493 --> 00:40:30,933 Speaker 6: I suppose what that survey doesn't necessarily tell us is 667 00:40:30,973 --> 00:40:33,093 Speaker 6: how many of them want to just go abroad for 668 00:40:33,133 --> 00:40:35,413 Speaker 6: a few years and come home like many Kiwis do. 669 00:40:36,693 --> 00:40:39,093 Speaker 6: And how many You know, what this sort of compared 670 00:40:39,093 --> 00:40:41,293 Speaker 6: to in the past. I mean, I think, you know, 671 00:40:41,613 --> 00:40:45,453 Speaker 6: British people moving abroad for a while is nearly as common, 672 00:40:45,693 --> 00:40:48,373 Speaker 6: or is perhaps less common than it is for Kiwis, 673 00:40:48,373 --> 00:40:53,093 Speaker 6: but it's still relatively common. So I mean, there is 674 00:40:53,173 --> 00:40:56,253 Speaker 6: a sense of the grass is always green. But again 675 00:40:56,413 --> 00:40:59,933 Speaker 6: I'd say it's dependent on what you do. I think 676 00:40:59,933 --> 00:41:02,253 Speaker 6: for many people that that issue is you know, if 677 00:41:02,253 --> 00:41:05,733 Speaker 6: you're in let's say, I don't know a marketing job, 678 00:41:05,893 --> 00:41:11,453 Speaker 6: or a public health job, or or a teacher. Your 679 00:41:11,773 --> 00:41:16,613 Speaker 6: prospects looking to the long term, you know, you might 680 00:41:16,613 --> 00:41:20,613 Speaker 6: be struggling when you're younger, in your or twenties, say 681 00:41:21,253 --> 00:41:24,333 Speaker 6: for salary reasons, but in the UK your prospects looking 682 00:41:24,413 --> 00:41:26,853 Speaker 6: further ahead are also not amazing. 683 00:41:26,973 --> 00:41:28,733 Speaker 3: You know, there's not a huge. 684 00:41:30,253 --> 00:41:34,173 Speaker 6: There's not an extraordinary kind of ladder of pay to 685 00:41:34,253 --> 00:41:38,173 Speaker 6: go up, which there might be in other countries. But 686 00:41:38,213 --> 00:41:40,773 Speaker 6: then again, if you flip that on its head, if 687 00:41:40,813 --> 00:41:44,213 Speaker 6: you're a lawyer in the UK, say your salary prospects are, 688 00:41:44,773 --> 00:41:47,253 Speaker 6: particularly if you're working anywhere to do with business law, 689 00:41:47,253 --> 00:41:50,533 Speaker 6: your salary prospects compared to most other countries are frankly enormous. 690 00:41:51,333 --> 00:41:52,893 Speaker 6: And you could say some of the things about anything 691 00:41:52,933 --> 00:41:57,013 Speaker 6: in the financial sector. So it really does, it really 692 00:41:57,013 --> 00:41:59,053 Speaker 6: does depend on what you want to do. I mean, 693 00:41:59,213 --> 00:42:02,413 Speaker 6: doctors is a really good example, and I think doctors 694 00:42:01,973 --> 00:42:06,533 Speaker 6: is something that I mean Australia in particular, of course, 695 00:42:06,533 --> 00:42:11,773 Speaker 6: as everyone listening will know gets right, and New Zealand 696 00:42:11,853 --> 00:42:14,053 Speaker 6: less so, but in particular the UK. You know, the 697 00:42:14,093 --> 00:42:18,493 Speaker 6: UK has a huge issue with doctors moving from from 698 00:42:18,493 --> 00:42:21,333 Speaker 6: here to Australia and New Zealand. I went to a 699 00:42:21,413 --> 00:42:23,933 Speaker 6: music festival in the summer with a mate of mind 700 00:42:23,933 --> 00:42:26,733 Speaker 6: who's adopted as a GP in the Hawk's Bay, and 701 00:42:26,813 --> 00:42:29,573 Speaker 6: he came over just for a holiday and we met 702 00:42:29,653 --> 00:42:32,973 Speaker 6: up with some of his friends who were doctors or 703 00:42:32,973 --> 00:42:36,893 Speaker 6: are doctors he met working in hospitals in New Zealand, 704 00:42:37,693 --> 00:42:40,213 Speaker 6: and they were telling me, you know, just how many 705 00:42:41,093 --> 00:42:44,933 Speaker 6: hospitals in New Zealander staff by Briish or Irish doctors, 706 00:42:45,533 --> 00:42:48,173 Speaker 6: and how many of them or their colleagues, you know, 707 00:42:48,213 --> 00:42:51,373 Speaker 6: we're no longer working in medicine in the UK that 708 00:42:51,493 --> 00:42:55,053 Speaker 6: either changed careers or moved overseas. 709 00:42:55,093 --> 00:42:56,893 Speaker 3: And it's you know, you know, island's the same. They've 710 00:42:56,893 --> 00:42:58,933 Speaker 3: got similar problems, and. 711 00:42:59,453 --> 00:43:01,813 Speaker 6: That's just because the working conditions in the PAYER are 712 00:43:01,853 --> 00:43:06,293 Speaker 6: frankly significantly better. And for most people it's a bit 713 00:43:06,293 --> 00:43:08,453 Speaker 6: of a no brainer, you know. I think often it's 714 00:43:08,533 --> 00:43:11,533 Speaker 6: it's from some people I speak to it sounds like 715 00:43:11,533 --> 00:43:14,813 Speaker 6: the norm is to go rather than to stay. But 716 00:43:14,853 --> 00:43:16,773 Speaker 6: again it depends on what you do, and it depends 717 00:43:16,813 --> 00:43:19,533 Speaker 6: on personal circumstances. 718 00:43:20,933 --> 00:43:23,253 Speaker 3: What about education in the UK, I mean, there's a 719 00:43:23,333 --> 00:43:27,613 Speaker 3: there's a couple in one of these articles, who moving 720 00:43:27,653 --> 00:43:33,973 Speaker 3: to Australia from Kent. And they're moving to Australia because well, 721 00:43:34,853 --> 00:43:37,573 Speaker 3: when education came up in the discussion, they were going 722 00:43:37,613 --> 00:43:40,133 Speaker 3: to the three kids were going to a school they 723 00:43:40,173 --> 00:43:43,853 Speaker 3: were very happy with this is primary school, but the 724 00:43:43,893 --> 00:43:48,773 Speaker 3: prospects beyond that were very well sad would be an 725 00:43:48,773 --> 00:43:51,973 Speaker 3: appropriate word, and so they were looking forward to getting 726 00:43:52,013 --> 00:43:56,093 Speaker 3: to Australia and having the kids get a better education. 727 00:43:56,253 --> 00:44:00,173 Speaker 3: Now I could suggest to them that there's things that 728 00:44:00,213 --> 00:44:03,933 Speaker 3: they might not know, but that that would depend on 729 00:44:04,013 --> 00:44:06,973 Speaker 3: the advantage that they saw over what they've what they've 730 00:44:06,973 --> 00:44:10,893 Speaker 3: already got on. By the way, that couple, he's a 731 00:44:10,933 --> 00:44:16,933 Speaker 3: builder and Australia has recently changed its entry rules for 732 00:44:17,253 --> 00:44:22,253 Speaker 3: certain occupations and building building is one of them. Now, 733 00:44:22,293 --> 00:44:26,333 Speaker 3: what happens when the builders, Because you've got a shortage 734 00:44:26,333 --> 00:44:30,333 Speaker 3: of housing, you can't afford to lose builders in Britain. 735 00:44:30,573 --> 00:44:33,573 Speaker 3: But if they're going to find it better to move 736 00:44:33,613 --> 00:44:36,733 Speaker 3: to the antipathies or anywhere else for that matter, then 737 00:44:36,773 --> 00:44:38,173 Speaker 3: that creates a problem for you. 738 00:44:39,013 --> 00:44:41,773 Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, I can't say I'm a massive expert 739 00:44:41,813 --> 00:44:43,933 Speaker 6: on that or on the education system. 740 00:44:43,973 --> 00:44:44,333 Speaker 3: I do. 741 00:44:44,573 --> 00:44:48,213 Speaker 6: I mean Funnily enough, my two of my flatmates are 742 00:44:48,373 --> 00:44:52,413 Speaker 6: a builder and a teacher, so I talk to them 743 00:44:52,973 --> 00:44:55,413 Speaker 6: a fair amount. And I've sort of just moved over 744 00:44:55,453 --> 00:44:58,453 Speaker 6: here from New Zealand to do the sort of wee 745 00:44:58,493 --> 00:44:58,973 Speaker 6: type thing. 746 00:44:59,053 --> 00:45:00,133 Speaker 3: I don't think they're going to be here. 747 00:45:00,213 --> 00:45:01,573 Speaker 6: They don't, you know that their plan is to go 748 00:45:01,653 --> 00:45:03,093 Speaker 6: back within a few years, but they wanted to come 749 00:45:03,133 --> 00:45:06,013 Speaker 6: over here and you know, travel and live somewhere else 750 00:45:06,093 --> 00:45:10,133 Speaker 6: and that sort of thing. I can't say, you know 751 00:45:10,213 --> 00:45:12,853 Speaker 6: that I know how much of an issue that's going 752 00:45:12,893 --> 00:45:17,013 Speaker 6: to be with builders leaving the UK. I mean, I 753 00:45:17,013 --> 00:45:22,613 Speaker 6: would say, generally speaking, the UK is still a very 754 00:45:22,653 --> 00:45:25,813 Speaker 6: attractive country, and I think you're going to see a 755 00:45:25,853 --> 00:45:28,293 Speaker 6: thing where a lot of the builders, as many of 756 00:45:28,333 --> 00:45:31,013 Speaker 6: them actually already are, will come from overseas, you know. 757 00:45:31,053 --> 00:45:34,773 Speaker 6: So there's plenty of builders from other parts of Europe, 758 00:45:34,813 --> 00:45:37,053 Speaker 6: for example, in the UK who have been here since 759 00:45:37,333 --> 00:45:41,653 Speaker 6: well before Brexit, So I don't know exactly how much 760 00:45:41,693 --> 00:45:43,213 Speaker 6: of a lack there is actually. 761 00:45:43,373 --> 00:45:44,253 Speaker 3: I couldn't tell you. 762 00:45:44,653 --> 00:45:47,253 Speaker 6: Teachers, there's certainly a shortage of teachers, and I know 763 00:45:47,293 --> 00:45:50,493 Speaker 6: that there's significant you know, I've got a few friends 764 00:45:50,493 --> 00:45:54,693 Speaker 6: over here with teachers and their experience of schools over 765 00:45:54,693 --> 00:46:00,613 Speaker 6: here is quite different to back home. It depends if 766 00:46:00,613 --> 00:46:04,493 Speaker 6: you're talking about secondary or primary. I suppose. I think 767 00:46:05,133 --> 00:46:09,453 Speaker 6: a school curriculum over here is much more lightly controlled. 768 00:46:10,373 --> 00:46:13,653 Speaker 6: Is one of the things that secondary teachers say, you're 769 00:46:13,733 --> 00:46:17,013 Speaker 6: kind of told what to teach by the government. There's 770 00:46:17,093 --> 00:46:20,333 Speaker 6: much less kind of leeway than there is a New Zealand, 771 00:46:20,333 --> 00:46:23,333 Speaker 6: where you can pick from a larger variety of subjects, 772 00:46:23,933 --> 00:46:29,733 Speaker 6: and there's a much much stronger emphasis on examinations and. 773 00:46:29,093 --> 00:46:30,173 Speaker 3: The results of those. 774 00:46:31,093 --> 00:46:33,653 Speaker 6: You know, I've always since moving over here, I've always 775 00:46:33,653 --> 00:46:36,293 Speaker 6: been really grateful that I did my schooling in New 776 00:46:36,373 --> 00:46:40,133 Speaker 6: Zealand because the pressure on kids over here, because there's 777 00:46:40,133 --> 00:46:43,573 Speaker 6: more emphasis on exam results, and that's a large part 778 00:46:43,653 --> 00:46:48,173 Speaker 6: because of the more importance given to people going to 779 00:46:48,293 --> 00:46:52,253 Speaker 6: university and go to good universities, so that the sort 780 00:46:52,293 --> 00:46:56,493 Speaker 6: of stress that you see on teenagers can be extraordinary. 781 00:46:56,533 --> 00:46:59,973 Speaker 6: You know, there's huge rooms with anxiety and arex hea 782 00:46:59,973 --> 00:47:03,653 Speaker 6: and that sort of thing at high schools over here. 783 00:47:04,733 --> 00:47:07,693 Speaker 3: But then I mean more generally, there's. 784 00:47:09,053 --> 00:47:12,693 Speaker 6: A huge diversity and quality of schools over here as well, 785 00:47:12,933 --> 00:47:14,733 Speaker 6: which there is in New Zealand of course too, and 786 00:47:14,933 --> 00:47:18,533 Speaker 6: I can't really speak evidentially on that, but you do 787 00:47:18,613 --> 00:47:22,413 Speaker 6: hear about sort of underfunding and overwork of teachers, which 788 00:47:22,493 --> 00:47:25,653 Speaker 6: is definitely something I've seen reflected and my friends over here. 789 00:47:25,973 --> 00:47:29,813 Speaker 3: I see though that there's a flight of a considerable 790 00:47:29,893 --> 00:47:34,213 Speaker 3: number of students, good students from school to universities in 791 00:47:34,293 --> 00:47:35,293 Speaker 3: the US. 792 00:47:35,333 --> 00:47:38,653 Speaker 6: Now, yeah, I mean, I don't know the numbers behind that. 793 00:47:38,853 --> 00:47:41,333 Speaker 6: I mean, I know it's a thing in New Zealand 794 00:47:41,333 --> 00:47:43,973 Speaker 6: as well, of course. I mean the university is at 795 00:47:43,973 --> 00:47:46,533 Speaker 6: the moment are going through something of a crisis because 796 00:47:46,573 --> 00:47:49,573 Speaker 6: basically it's short short history of this was back in 797 00:47:49,613 --> 00:47:55,093 Speaker 6: twenty twelve the government effectively tripled university fees from three 798 00:47:55,133 --> 00:47:57,813 Speaker 6: thousand pounds a year to nine thousand pounds a year overnight, 799 00:47:58,333 --> 00:48:05,173 Speaker 6: hugely controversial. Lots of riots took place around that. But 800 00:48:05,213 --> 00:48:07,813 Speaker 6: because of that, the university is now kind of twelve 801 00:48:07,853 --> 00:48:08,493 Speaker 6: years later. 802 00:48:08,453 --> 00:48:10,053 Speaker 3: Saying we need more money. 803 00:48:10,213 --> 00:48:13,413 Speaker 6: And one of the consequences you're seeing of that is 804 00:48:13,453 --> 00:48:16,893 Speaker 6: that there are more international students been being offered places 805 00:48:16,893 --> 00:48:19,933 Speaker 6: at universities over here because they have to pay more fees. 806 00:48:20,053 --> 00:48:22,613 Speaker 6: There's not a cap on. I don't know if there 807 00:48:22,653 --> 00:48:25,453 Speaker 6: is a cap on. How high international fees can go. 808 00:48:25,613 --> 00:48:29,213 Speaker 6: But you know, as whos get more money from international students, 809 00:48:29,453 --> 00:48:34,653 Speaker 6: so there is increasing increasing pressure on local students for 810 00:48:34,813 --> 00:48:36,413 Speaker 6: places because of that. 811 00:48:37,413 --> 00:48:40,693 Speaker 3: Okay, so let me just quote you this bit. For now, 812 00:48:40,773 --> 00:48:43,373 Speaker 3: young Britains are going to keep moving overseas well. They're 813 00:48:43,373 --> 00:48:45,373 Speaker 3: doing that from everywhere, aren't they. I mean it's more 814 00:48:45,493 --> 00:48:50,013 Speaker 3: I think it's more universal now than it ever has been. Liberty, 815 00:48:50,213 --> 00:48:54,093 Speaker 3: who works in international development, and Sam, a teacher, moved 816 00:48:54,093 --> 00:48:59,333 Speaker 3: abroad in August. They considered other locations Dubai, where Liberty's 817 00:48:59,333 --> 00:49:03,093 Speaker 3: employer has another office, or Thailand, which is a well 818 00:49:03,133 --> 00:49:08,493 Speaker 3: worn route for British teachers, but found you'd never guess, 819 00:49:08,853 --> 00:49:14,133 Speaker 3: but found Kenya offered the best combination of new experiences, 820 00:49:14,253 --> 00:49:20,373 Speaker 3: lower living costs, and perpetual summer. Let's pray as you'd 821 00:49:20,373 --> 00:49:23,773 Speaker 3: consider virtual summer, I can perpetual summer. I can see 822 00:49:23,773 --> 00:49:26,413 Speaker 3: the attraction of that. Yes, I can say. 823 00:49:26,413 --> 00:49:29,813 Speaker 6: Actually, as the clocks went back this weekend and today's 824 00:49:29,813 --> 00:49:33,093 Speaker 6: the first working day where the sun went down at 825 00:49:33,173 --> 00:49:36,093 Speaker 6: hlpas four, I'm more than ready to move to Kenya. 826 00:49:36,573 --> 00:49:44,253 Speaker 3: Okay, Well, I'd be happy to come and visit. So 827 00:49:44,493 --> 00:49:46,813 Speaker 3: there are all sorts of reasons and there, and their 828 00:49:47,293 --> 00:49:51,373 Speaker 3: frequently individual reasons, depending on people's lives and what they're 829 00:49:51,453 --> 00:49:53,613 Speaker 3: up to and who they're doing doing it with and 830 00:49:53,693 --> 00:49:56,293 Speaker 3: all that sort of all that sort of thing. But 831 00:49:56,413 --> 00:49:59,253 Speaker 3: does it leave I mean, does it let me ask 832 00:49:59,293 --> 00:50:03,333 Speaker 3: you this, does it leave a state or an atmosphere 833 00:50:03,533 --> 00:50:07,773 Speaker 3: of uncertainty in a lot of people's minds. 834 00:50:09,973 --> 00:50:12,613 Speaker 6: Yes, I think very very much so. I mean, I mean, 835 00:50:13,373 --> 00:50:15,933 Speaker 6: i'd say getting sick of London in particular is nothing new. 836 00:50:15,973 --> 00:50:18,853 Speaker 6: I mean, there's a reason why so many people who 837 00:50:18,933 --> 00:50:21,733 Speaker 6: work in London often end up having a family and 838 00:50:21,773 --> 00:50:24,453 Speaker 6: settling down outside London, you know, you know, near London 839 00:50:24,493 --> 00:50:27,653 Speaker 6: and places like Surrey or Oxfordshire and then commute to London. 840 00:50:27,693 --> 00:50:29,973 Speaker 6: And that's even more so now with remote working. And 841 00:50:30,333 --> 00:50:33,053 Speaker 6: you know, you just have to tell by the number 842 00:50:33,053 --> 00:50:36,293 Speaker 6: of English people or British people in New Zealand, how 843 00:50:36,733 --> 00:50:40,213 Speaker 6: how long you know, how that's always been a thing. 844 00:50:41,813 --> 00:50:44,533 Speaker 6: But I think there is a huge sense of uncertainty 845 00:50:44,733 --> 00:50:47,653 Speaker 6: here at the moment. I mean an enormous amount amount 846 00:50:47,653 --> 00:50:50,173 Speaker 6: will depend on how this government goes over the next 847 00:50:50,213 --> 00:50:54,893 Speaker 6: five years, and I think most people aren't enormously hopeful. 848 00:50:55,413 --> 00:50:58,013 Speaker 6: You know, the reason labor one more than anything else, 849 00:50:58,173 --> 00:51:00,773 Speaker 6: was a vote against the Conservatives and the kind of 850 00:51:00,813 --> 00:51:03,933 Speaker 6: fiasco of Liz Trust and the partying and downing Street 851 00:51:04,013 --> 00:51:07,653 Speaker 6: during during COVID, and the anger that many people still 852 00:51:07,693 --> 00:51:11,693 Speaker 6: have towards peace, like Boris Johnson because of that. But 853 00:51:12,733 --> 00:51:19,093 Speaker 6: you know, there's not a great kind of economic vision 854 00:51:19,493 --> 00:51:22,373 Speaker 6: of the current Labor government, or of really anyone in 855 00:51:22,413 --> 00:51:24,533 Speaker 6: the UK, I mean, even the two people who are 856 00:51:24,573 --> 00:51:29,173 Speaker 6: now vying to be the Conservative Party leader, which will 857 00:51:29,173 --> 00:51:32,573 Speaker 6: be announced I think next week. You know, I'm much 858 00:51:32,653 --> 00:51:37,173 Speaker 6: keener to talk about issues like wokeism than actual economic 859 00:51:37,213 --> 00:51:39,453 Speaker 6: policy that the country desperately needs. 860 00:51:40,333 --> 00:51:41,053 Speaker 3: I mean, you can have a. 861 00:51:40,973 --> 00:51:44,213 Speaker 6: Conversation about how important it is to talk about workism 862 00:51:44,213 --> 00:51:48,573 Speaker 6: as well, but the lack of economic discussion is frustrating, 863 00:51:49,013 --> 00:51:53,853 Speaker 6: and I think most people don't really see the positive 864 00:51:54,013 --> 00:51:57,413 Speaker 6: path through. I mean, I would say, you know, looking historically, 865 00:51:57,573 --> 00:52:01,173 Speaker 6: the UK has always ebbed and flowed, you know, since 866 00:52:01,333 --> 00:52:03,693 Speaker 6: since the war and since before, you know, basically since 867 00:52:03,893 --> 00:52:05,413 Speaker 6: the end of the First World War, the UK has 868 00:52:05,413 --> 00:52:09,013 Speaker 6: always ebbed and flowed. And it will come again and 869 00:52:09,293 --> 00:52:13,053 Speaker 6: I'm sure will be a kind of easier place to 870 00:52:13,133 --> 00:52:15,933 Speaker 6: live than it is now. And it's not all doom 871 00:52:15,933 --> 00:52:17,573 Speaker 6: and gloom, and as I kind of said earlier, that 872 00:52:17,653 --> 00:52:20,133 Speaker 6: there's a national sentiment of doom and gloom. 873 00:52:20,133 --> 00:52:21,293 Speaker 3: It's a national pastime. 874 00:52:22,173 --> 00:52:24,933 Speaker 6: But I think that most people don't have a huge 875 00:52:24,973 --> 00:52:28,173 Speaker 6: amount of faith that things are going to be particularly 876 00:52:28,173 --> 00:52:30,693 Speaker 6: good for a while now. In saying that, if you're 877 00:52:30,693 --> 00:52:35,013 Speaker 6: a New Zealander thinking about moving to the UK, it's 878 00:52:35,053 --> 00:52:37,973 Speaker 6: still a fantastic place to be and it's all contextual. 879 00:52:38,013 --> 00:52:39,213 Speaker 6: You know, if you want to come over here and 880 00:52:40,413 --> 00:52:43,053 Speaker 6: come for a great job or an opportunity to travel 881 00:52:43,133 --> 00:52:46,813 Speaker 6: or try someone new, that's still there and there's nothing 882 00:52:46,973 --> 00:52:47,773 Speaker 6: stopping you doing that. 883 00:52:51,053 --> 00:52:55,333 Speaker 3: Do Kiwi's for instance at Australians. Do they get paid less? 884 00:52:56,533 --> 00:53:01,133 Speaker 3: And I'm thinking of people like lawyers, seeing that that 885 00:53:01,173 --> 00:53:03,253 Speaker 3: seems to run in the family and the family of 886 00:53:03,293 --> 00:53:07,733 Speaker 3: a few friends and doctors if you want, or any 887 00:53:07,773 --> 00:53:11,213 Speaker 3: group that you're familiar with. Do they get paid less 888 00:53:11,213 --> 00:53:14,013 Speaker 3: than the UK or in New Zealand? No, less than 889 00:53:14,413 --> 00:53:17,333 Speaker 3: less than somebody of equivalent status in the UK. 890 00:53:18,733 --> 00:53:21,853 Speaker 6: Lawyers get paid significantly more in the UK. I mean 891 00:53:21,893 --> 00:53:26,333 Speaker 6: I'm talking no, but yeah, but I mean, for a 892 00:53:28,013 --> 00:53:31,253 Speaker 6: key we to go to London and apply for a job, 893 00:53:32,853 --> 00:53:35,853 Speaker 6: would they expect or would they get offered the job 894 00:53:36,013 --> 00:53:41,933 Speaker 6: for a lower rate than what a local would. I 895 00:53:42,093 --> 00:53:46,213 Speaker 6: haven't really. Well, again, it depends on the situation, you know. 896 00:53:46,293 --> 00:53:48,333 Speaker 6: I know people who have come over here and now 897 00:53:48,373 --> 00:53:51,413 Speaker 6: work at really really top law firms and they get 898 00:53:51,453 --> 00:53:53,613 Speaker 6: paid the same. There's there's kind of a unity of 899 00:53:53,653 --> 00:53:57,653 Speaker 6: pay depending on your experience over here in most places. 900 00:53:57,973 --> 00:54:00,333 Speaker 6: I do also know of people who have come and 901 00:54:00,453 --> 00:54:04,053 Speaker 6: struggled more to find a job and perhaps ended up 902 00:54:04,053 --> 00:54:06,413 Speaker 6: working as a contractor for a long period of time, 903 00:54:07,573 --> 00:54:10,813 Speaker 6: and that mean they don't necessarily get paid as well. 904 00:54:11,533 --> 00:54:14,573 Speaker 6: I haven't heard any circumstance where where kiwis are being 905 00:54:14,613 --> 00:54:19,253 Speaker 6: paid less because they're not from the UK. In terms 906 00:54:19,253 --> 00:54:21,653 Speaker 6: of being a doctor, I mean, there are so few 907 00:54:21,653 --> 00:54:23,693 Speaker 6: New Zealand. The UK kind of shoots itself in the 908 00:54:23,693 --> 00:54:27,213 Speaker 6: foot by making it so difficult for doctors from places 909 00:54:27,253 --> 00:54:30,133 Speaker 6: like Australia and New Zealand and other English speaking countries 910 00:54:30,173 --> 00:54:33,093 Speaker 6: to come to the UK, by making it, you know, 911 00:54:33,173 --> 00:54:36,893 Speaker 6: having really intense kind of requalifying exams that people have 912 00:54:36,933 --> 00:54:40,133 Speaker 6: to sit, it's very rare for doctors to come over here. 913 00:54:40,653 --> 00:54:44,093 Speaker 6: It does happen, but generally speaking, doctors get paid much 914 00:54:44,093 --> 00:54:46,213 Speaker 6: worse in the UK than they do in New Zealand, 915 00:54:46,293 --> 00:54:48,613 Speaker 6: and particularly compared to Australia. But again I haven't heard 916 00:54:48,653 --> 00:54:54,293 Speaker 6: of any you know, having to be paid worse than 917 00:54:54,493 --> 00:54:55,893 Speaker 6: your kind of local colleagues. 918 00:54:57,533 --> 00:55:01,773 Speaker 3: I'm just running whether I mentioned something and I will. 919 00:55:02,893 --> 00:55:08,013 Speaker 3: I know. I know of a doctor, young doctor who 920 00:55:08,453 --> 00:55:12,093 Speaker 3: has made such headway in life that he, after working 921 00:55:13,013 --> 00:55:18,173 Speaker 3: doing the rounds here at various hospitals and in Australia, 922 00:55:19,013 --> 00:55:23,533 Speaker 3: ended up in London, still young, and was at a 923 00:55:23,853 --> 00:55:35,093 Speaker 3: specialty hospital for a year. Upon that contract expiring, he 924 00:55:35,173 --> 00:55:36,973 Speaker 3: and he and his wife wanted to move back to 925 00:55:37,173 --> 00:55:42,413 Speaker 3: New Zealand, and they did, but before they came, they 926 00:55:42,413 --> 00:55:48,933 Speaker 3: were offered, he was offered an amazing contract that would 927 00:55:49,013 --> 00:55:53,933 Speaker 3: not be matched here. But they they they had plans 928 00:55:53,933 --> 00:55:55,973 Speaker 3: for what they wanted to do here and that was that. 929 00:55:57,053 --> 00:55:59,933 Speaker 3: I thought staying on there for another couple of years 930 00:55:59,933 --> 00:56:03,693 Speaker 3: would have been well worth well worthwhile. But you know it, 931 00:56:04,093 --> 00:56:06,413 Speaker 3: like we say, it depends on the individuals. 932 00:56:07,973 --> 00:56:10,493 Speaker 6: I mean, it's not an uncommon thing I know amongst 933 00:56:10,493 --> 00:56:12,813 Speaker 6: people here to want to move back to New Zealand. 934 00:56:14,053 --> 00:56:16,853 Speaker 6: If you've been here a while and decide you want 935 00:56:16,853 --> 00:56:18,733 Speaker 6: to have a family and you know now at the time, 936 00:56:19,293 --> 00:56:21,773 Speaker 6: I think, generally speaking, the kind of quality of life, 937 00:56:21,813 --> 00:56:25,933 Speaker 6: particularly for kids. I mean, I don't have kids, so 938 00:56:25,973 --> 00:56:28,213 Speaker 6: it's hard to say. I'm not ingratiating how the school 939 00:56:28,213 --> 00:56:31,213 Speaker 6: system works, but generally speaking, it sounds like it's a 940 00:56:31,213 --> 00:56:33,573 Speaker 6: lot better, particularly if you're living in London. I mean, 941 00:56:33,613 --> 00:56:34,973 Speaker 6: I mean, it's better in New Zealand. 942 00:56:34,973 --> 00:56:35,213 Speaker 4: It is. 943 00:56:35,653 --> 00:56:41,973 Speaker 6: You know, London's a big city. There's but plenty of crime. 944 00:56:42,373 --> 00:56:43,413 Speaker 6: I mean, it's. 945 00:56:43,253 --> 00:56:46,693 Speaker 3: It's it's. 946 00:56:49,653 --> 00:56:53,293 Speaker 6: Yeah, well perhaps that's true, but I think you know, 947 00:56:53,333 --> 00:56:55,493 Speaker 6: there's sort of you know, you've got better access to 948 00:56:55,533 --> 00:56:59,333 Speaker 6: the beach, to mountain hiking and mountain biking and whatever 949 00:56:59,373 --> 00:57:00,853 Speaker 6: else you want to do. Outside of New Zealand, there's 950 00:57:00,893 --> 00:57:03,333 Speaker 6: less pressure on kids. I think the kind of kids 951 00:57:03,493 --> 00:57:10,013 Speaker 6: that people seem to say generally happier, Well, don't take 952 00:57:10,053 --> 00:57:12,493 Speaker 6: that out if you can. I don't know if that's true, 953 00:57:13,173 --> 00:57:16,933 Speaker 6: but there is definitely a sentiment among people that I 954 00:57:17,013 --> 00:57:18,453 Speaker 6: know that they want to move home when they have 955 00:57:18,493 --> 00:57:18,973 Speaker 6: a family. 956 00:57:19,813 --> 00:57:24,653 Speaker 3: I want to wind up on back on education and politics, 957 00:57:24,693 --> 00:57:31,133 Speaker 3: the politics involved, because there is Jonathan Turley, the law 958 00:57:31,173 --> 00:57:36,213 Speaker 3: professor from Washington who just wrote a very good book 959 00:57:36,973 --> 00:57:41,653 Speaker 3: on the importance of free speech, the indispensable right free 960 00:57:41,653 --> 00:57:44,013 Speaker 3: speech in an age of rage. It's good book, I've 961 00:57:44,053 --> 00:57:46,973 Speaker 3: got it, and he refers to a new survey of 962 00:57:47,013 --> 00:57:51,053 Speaker 3: more than a thousand professors showing that seventy eight percent 963 00:57:51,133 --> 00:57:54,813 Speaker 3: will vote for Harris and only eight percent will vote 964 00:57:54,853 --> 00:57:59,653 Speaker 3: for Trump. Other than a poll of the Democratic National Committee, 965 00:57:59,773 --> 00:58:03,533 Speaker 3: there are few groups that are more reliably democratic or 966 00:58:03,573 --> 00:58:07,613 Speaker 3: liberal For anyone in higher education, the result is hardly surprising. 967 00:58:07,653 --> 00:58:10,733 Speaker 3: The poll tracks what we already know about the gradual 968 00:58:10,853 --> 00:58:16,013 Speaker 3: purging of departments around the country of conservative, libertarian and 969 00:58:16,173 --> 00:58:21,253 Speaker 3: dissenting professors purging. It's a very ugly scenario as far 970 00:58:21,293 --> 00:58:25,933 Speaker 3: as education is concerned. Is there an equivalent situation in Britain. 971 00:58:26,613 --> 00:58:31,293 Speaker 6: It's a difficult question. My gut would be to say no. 972 00:58:31,693 --> 00:58:35,493 Speaker 6: I mean, I think that you'd be kidding yourself if 973 00:58:35,533 --> 00:58:38,333 Speaker 6: you didn't think that the majority of kind of higher 974 00:58:38,453 --> 00:58:44,293 Speaker 6: education teachers in the UK are not left leaning as 975 00:58:44,493 --> 00:58:48,933 Speaker 6: in most Western countries. I have I know people who 976 00:58:49,413 --> 00:58:55,133 Speaker 6: went to university at in the US who were somewhat 977 00:58:55,373 --> 00:58:57,693 Speaker 6: taken aback at and these are people who are I 978 00:58:57,693 --> 00:58:59,573 Speaker 6: would probably describe as left wing myself, but they were. 979 00:58:59,613 --> 00:59:03,373 Speaker 6: They were quite taken aback at how how little room 980 00:59:03,413 --> 00:59:06,813 Speaker 6: there was in some places for a discussion outside of 981 00:59:06,853 --> 00:59:09,853 Speaker 6: you know, for kind of wanting to be conservative or 982 00:59:09,853 --> 00:59:13,133 Speaker 6: anything like that, not that they were trying to be 983 00:59:13,933 --> 00:59:17,853 Speaker 6: in that time. But in the UK, I mean I 984 00:59:17,893 --> 00:59:19,613 Speaker 6: think that, I mean, there are plenty of sort of 985 00:59:19,653 --> 00:59:26,813 Speaker 6: high profile right leaning academics in the UK, and I 986 00:59:27,333 --> 00:59:31,293 Speaker 6: don't think that it is as big an issue here 987 00:59:31,613 --> 00:59:34,093 Speaker 6: is in the US. And I think that's the case 988 00:59:34,133 --> 00:59:36,453 Speaker 6: about lots of things in countries like New Zealand and 989 00:59:36,493 --> 00:59:38,893 Speaker 6: the UK and Australia, where you know, we see US 990 00:59:38,973 --> 00:59:41,333 Speaker 6: issues and kind of transfer them over to our countries 991 00:59:41,773 --> 00:59:46,853 Speaker 6: without necessarily giving value to context. But I would say 992 00:59:46,893 --> 00:59:51,053 Speaker 6: that there's more of it. Ironically, in many ways, there's 993 00:59:51,053 --> 00:59:53,973 Speaker 6: more of an animosity, I think, towards the Conservative Party 994 00:59:54,133 --> 00:59:57,053 Speaker 6: than conservativism conservatism, So. 995 00:59:56,973 --> 01:00:02,533 Speaker 3: You wouldn't, you know, pretty stupid people running the show. 996 01:00:02,933 --> 01:00:05,293 Speaker 3: And I think, you know, there's a certain anger amongst 997 01:00:05,373 --> 01:00:07,413 Speaker 3: many young people at a lot of the things that 998 01:00:07,413 --> 01:00:09,653 Speaker 3: have done. I mean, in particul the bricks that I think, 999 01:00:09,693 --> 01:00:11,173 Speaker 3: you know, you can have your own views on bricks 1000 01:00:11,253 --> 01:00:13,053 Speaker 3: no matter what. But I think something that's. 1001 01:00:12,893 --> 01:00:17,653 Speaker 6: Often lost in kind of international discussion is that if 1002 01:00:17,693 --> 01:00:20,133 Speaker 6: you're a young person over here, speaking of let's say, 1003 01:00:20,173 --> 01:00:24,253 Speaker 6: moving to Portugal before bricks, you could move to any 1004 01:00:24,253 --> 01:00:26,653 Speaker 6: country in Europe without a visa and living there for 1005 01:00:26,653 --> 01:00:29,613 Speaker 6: the rest of your life, no problem. Now you need 1006 01:00:29,653 --> 01:00:32,333 Speaker 6: countries like Portugal to offer you a digital nomad type 1007 01:00:32,373 --> 01:00:36,893 Speaker 6: situation to do that. But anyway, I'm getting off track. 1008 01:00:36,933 --> 01:00:37,253 Speaker 3: Sorry. 1009 01:00:37,893 --> 01:00:41,533 Speaker 6: In terms of university education, no, I don't think there 1010 01:00:41,573 --> 01:00:43,973 Speaker 6: is an equivalent of that. I think like many institutions, 1011 01:00:44,093 --> 01:00:46,053 Speaker 6: you know, mostly young people tend to be left wing, 1012 01:00:46,093 --> 01:00:48,413 Speaker 6: but I don't think there's that sort of animosity there. 1013 01:00:49,773 --> 01:00:52,413 Speaker 6: But you know, I haven't been in higher in tertiary 1014 01:00:52,493 --> 01:00:54,653 Speaker 6: education for a number of years now, That's what I'm 1015 01:00:54,693 --> 01:00:55,093 Speaker 6: not sure. 1016 01:00:55,173 --> 01:00:58,493 Speaker 3: Okay, So I said that to wind up. But there 1017 01:00:58,573 --> 01:01:00,133 Speaker 3: is one other thing I just want to hit you 1018 01:01:00,173 --> 01:01:04,453 Speaker 3: with without warning. The power supply in Britain. I'm not 1019 01:01:04,573 --> 01:01:08,293 Speaker 3: entirely sure about how reliable it is, but I wonder, 1020 01:01:08,573 --> 01:01:11,453 Speaker 3: I wonder if there is an issue with power supply, 1021 01:01:11,733 --> 01:01:15,933 Speaker 3: the cost of it in particular, and whether or not 1022 01:01:15,973 --> 01:01:19,093 Speaker 3: there's a much greater move to move. 1023 01:01:18,933 --> 01:01:24,973 Speaker 6: To nuclear Yeah, a very interesting question and debate that's 1024 01:01:24,973 --> 01:01:28,533 Speaker 6: going on in the country at the moment, I obviously no. 1025 01:01:28,653 --> 01:01:31,853 Speaker 6: New Zealand's going through plenty of issues with that right now. 1026 01:01:31,933 --> 01:01:36,693 Speaker 6: There were massive energy will increases over here in twenty 1027 01:01:36,733 --> 01:01:38,853 Speaker 6: twenty two and twenty twenty three. The government kind of 1028 01:01:39,373 --> 01:01:41,613 Speaker 6: ended up stepping in and subsidizing a lot because it was 1029 01:01:41,653 --> 01:01:45,173 Speaker 6: just becoming astronomical. In a similar way as I know 1030 01:01:45,253 --> 01:01:47,133 Speaker 6: that it's an issue in the US election at the 1031 01:01:47,173 --> 01:01:51,053 Speaker 6: moment that was largely driven by the war in Ukraine 1032 01:01:51,253 --> 01:01:54,613 Speaker 6: and sanctions on Russia and kind of resulting issues with 1033 01:01:54,773 --> 01:02:01,253 Speaker 6: oil and natural gas coming from Eastern Europe. There is 1034 01:02:01,293 --> 01:02:04,893 Speaker 6: a debate about increasing nuclear power plants. With the number 1035 01:02:04,893 --> 01:02:06,853 Speaker 6: of nuclear power plants over here, I'm not sure exactly 1036 01:02:06,893 --> 01:02:08,493 Speaker 6: where that is at the moment. It's sort of on 1037 01:02:08,573 --> 01:02:13,053 Speaker 6: the new governments to do list. They have increased the 1038 01:02:13,253 --> 01:02:17,373 Speaker 6: planning for onshore wind farms in the UK that's seen 1039 01:02:17,453 --> 01:02:21,853 Speaker 6: as a huge future source of power. It's it has 1040 01:02:21,893 --> 01:02:24,613 Speaker 6: become less of a discussion topic this year than it 1041 01:02:24,693 --> 01:02:28,333 Speaker 6: was last year or year before, but long term, like 1042 01:02:28,373 --> 01:02:31,253 Speaker 6: many countries, it's a serious issue all right now. 1043 01:02:31,293 --> 01:02:34,333 Speaker 3: The very last question, what's the opinion of Jacinda Adiran 1044 01:02:34,493 --> 01:02:37,853 Speaker 3: in written now, I think still fairly positive. 1045 01:02:37,893 --> 01:02:41,533 Speaker 6: I think people over here would generally a bit flummixed 1046 01:02:41,773 --> 01:02:46,333 Speaker 6: with her stepping down and then Labour's subsequent loss in 1047 01:02:46,373 --> 01:02:51,213 Speaker 6: the election. But I also think that people don't give 1048 01:02:51,413 --> 01:02:53,653 Speaker 6: Justina are doing that much thought over here? What about 1049 01:02:53,973 --> 01:02:57,093 Speaker 6: what about oh sorry, expats? 1050 01:02:57,693 --> 01:02:58,213 Speaker 3: Not much. 1051 01:02:59,173 --> 01:03:02,893 Speaker 6: I'd say mixed, I think, I mean, I doubt it's 1052 01:03:02,893 --> 01:03:05,653 Speaker 6: moved on much since last year's election, but you know, 1053 01:03:05,653 --> 01:03:12,093 Speaker 6: there's still a fair amount of resentment after COVID amongst 1054 01:03:12,093 --> 01:03:17,573 Speaker 6: some people. I think there's some disappointment at how her 1055 01:03:17,613 --> 01:03:19,773 Speaker 6: premiership played out. But I also think there's lots of 1056 01:03:19,813 --> 01:03:22,973 Speaker 6: people who are frustrated that she stood down and that 1057 01:03:23,213 --> 01:03:26,773 Speaker 6: Labor was voted out. So I'd say the opinion is mixed. 1058 01:03:27,213 --> 01:03:30,893 Speaker 6: But I think memories will be long for people who 1059 01:03:30,973 --> 01:03:33,573 Speaker 6: felt jaded after what happened during COVID and being locked 1060 01:03:33,573 --> 01:03:35,773 Speaker 6: out of the country. But you know, I mean, my 1061 01:03:36,173 --> 01:03:38,933 Speaker 6: personal opinion is, you know, as we may have said 1062 01:03:39,013 --> 01:03:41,093 Speaker 6: last year, I think it was will be the right 1063 01:03:41,133 --> 01:03:41,973 Speaker 6: thing at the right time. 1064 01:03:42,853 --> 01:03:44,613 Speaker 3: But I was lucky I didn't have to come home, 1065 01:03:45,053 --> 01:03:48,253 Speaker 3: and you were lucky about that too, all right, it 1066 01:03:48,333 --> 01:03:53,053 Speaker 3: has been a pleasure to talk with you anytime, anytime, anytime, 1067 01:03:53,293 --> 01:03:56,773 Speaker 3: all right. I'll keep it in mind, so thank you 1068 01:03:56,853 --> 01:04:20,053 Speaker 3: and we'll talk soon. Enter the mail room for two 1069 01:04:20,093 --> 01:04:23,733 Speaker 3: sixty two and if you'd like to write to us 1070 01:04:24,013 --> 01:04:27,373 Speaker 3: latent at NEWSTALKSIB dot co dot Nz or Carolyn at 1071 01:04:27,413 --> 01:04:33,973 Speaker 3: NEWSTALKSIB dot co dot Nz. So Carolyn aka missus producer. 1072 01:04:33,853 --> 01:04:34,613 Speaker 7: How are you later? 1073 01:04:34,773 --> 01:04:37,893 Speaker 4: I'm very good good. In fact, I'm feeling extra good 1074 01:04:37,973 --> 01:04:40,053 Speaker 4: and you look extra good. Go for it. 1075 01:04:40,413 --> 01:04:40,613 Speaker 5: Late. 1076 01:04:40,693 --> 01:04:44,373 Speaker 7: In this from Jin judge Anthony Willie reminded us that 1077 01:04:44,413 --> 01:04:47,573 Speaker 7: we live in an age where highly complacent humanity is 1078 01:04:47,613 --> 01:04:53,813 Speaker 7: willingly tyrannized by increasingly self righteous totalitarians. Just recently, the 1079 01:04:53,853 --> 01:04:58,893 Speaker 7: wicked leftist Australian government has canceled Candice Owen's visa in 1080 01:04:58,973 --> 01:05:01,413 Speaker 7: the hopes of wiping out her shows, which have been 1081 01:05:01,453 --> 01:05:05,733 Speaker 7: selling extremely well across Sidney, Melbourne, Perth, Brisbane and Adelaide. 1082 01:05:06,173 --> 01:05:10,853 Speaker 7: Now Immigration New Zealand is quote assessing her visa. I've 1083 01:05:10,853 --> 01:05:13,573 Speaker 7: paid for front row tickets to Candice Owen's show in 1084 01:05:13,613 --> 01:05:16,173 Speaker 7: New Zealand, so I'll be utterly ticked off if Immigration 1085 01:05:16,293 --> 01:05:21,333 Speaker 7: New Zealand makes the same idiot decision Immigration Australia made 1086 01:05:21,373 --> 01:05:24,373 Speaker 7: in desperate times like these, where our freedoms are being 1087 01:05:24,453 --> 01:05:27,293 Speaker 7: choked to a slow death by these modern day Nazis. 1088 01:05:27,373 --> 01:05:31,173 Speaker 7: I find that laughter helps. I recently discovered one of 1089 01:05:31,213 --> 01:05:34,613 Speaker 7: the best stand up comedians of our times, stand up 1090 01:05:34,613 --> 01:05:39,053 Speaker 7: comedian Donald J. Trump, delivered one comedic zinger after another 1091 01:05:39,133 --> 01:05:43,213 Speaker 7: at the Al Smith Memorial Foundation dinner. On a more 1092 01:05:43,293 --> 01:05:46,653 Speaker 7: serious note, Tucker Carlson gave one of the most powerful 1093 01:05:46,653 --> 01:05:50,213 Speaker 7: speeches I've heard in history. Donald Trump's victory will be 1094 01:05:50,253 --> 01:05:52,653 Speaker 7: a triumph of the human spirit. It will be a 1095 01:05:52,693 --> 01:05:55,853 Speaker 7: triumph of Americans over the machine that seek to oppress them. 1096 01:05:56,293 --> 01:05:58,453 Speaker 7: It will be a middle finger wagging in the face 1097 01:05:58,493 --> 01:06:00,933 Speaker 7: of the worst people in the English speaking world who 1098 01:06:00,933 --> 01:06:04,173 Speaker 7: are leaders. It will be a moral victory the size 1099 01:06:04,173 --> 01:06:06,373 Speaker 7: of which I never thought I would live to see. 1100 01:06:06,813 --> 01:06:11,293 Speaker 7: And as essential, it's so important that it happens. And 1101 01:06:11,413 --> 01:06:13,533 Speaker 7: Jen goes on to say, maybe that is exactly what 1102 01:06:13,573 --> 01:06:17,213 Speaker 7: an insane humanity needs. The sane comedy of a Donald 1103 01:06:17,253 --> 01:06:20,933 Speaker 7: Trump presidency that makes fun of the idiots. May Trump 1104 01:06:21,053 --> 01:06:24,613 Speaker 7: outlaugh Carris Hackle to become the forty seventh President of 1105 01:06:24,653 --> 01:06:27,933 Speaker 7: the United States, because the world needs to laugh again. 1106 01:06:28,173 --> 01:06:34,133 Speaker 3: Yes it does. Layton, regarding your prediction of a Trump victory, 1107 01:06:34,133 --> 01:06:37,533 Speaker 3: in the US presidential election. On paper, Trump should be 1108 01:06:37,533 --> 01:06:40,053 Speaker 3: a shoe in, but the Deep State cannot be allowed 1109 01:06:40,293 --> 01:06:44,293 Speaker 3: cannot allow that to happen. Trump was purposely denied victory 1110 01:06:44,293 --> 01:06:48,613 Speaker 3: in twenty twenty by the unelected Deep State stooges, the 1111 01:06:48,693 --> 01:06:53,973 Speaker 3: Three letter agencies, and the complicit legacy media, all conspiring 1112 01:06:54,173 --> 01:06:58,293 Speaker 3: to commit the most outrageous election fraud ever witnessed. All 1113 01:06:58,333 --> 01:07:01,733 Speaker 3: the swing states shut up shop and supposedly stopped counting 1114 01:07:01,813 --> 01:07:05,053 Speaker 3: votes late in the evening of election Day twenty twenty, 1115 01:07:05,253 --> 01:07:08,053 Speaker 3: with Trump leading comfortably. Then in the middle of the night, 1116 01:07:09,053 --> 01:07:12,853 Speaker 3: massive amounts of votes all for Biden, suddenly had Trump trailing. 1117 01:07:14,093 --> 01:07:16,773 Speaker 3: For anybody who doesn't know that or isn't sure of it, 1118 01:07:16,773 --> 01:07:20,053 Speaker 3: it's true. The Deep State got away with this massive 1119 01:07:20,093 --> 01:07:23,893 Speaker 3: fraud in twenty twenty, thus were able to install corrupt 1120 01:07:23,893 --> 01:07:29,173 Speaker 3: puppet Biden as president, having miraculously received eighty one million 1121 01:07:29,293 --> 01:07:34,533 Speaker 3: votes after campaigning from his basement, along with his totally 1122 01:07:34,613 --> 01:07:39,453 Speaker 3: clueless sidekick Harris as vice president. I said much of 1123 01:07:39,453 --> 01:07:42,453 Speaker 3: this in last week's podcast. I think from memory the 1124 01:07:42,533 --> 01:07:45,493 Speaker 3: military industrial complex could breathe a sigh of relief after 1125 01:07:45,533 --> 01:07:48,293 Speaker 3: a four year hiatus and get back to the business 1126 01:07:48,333 --> 01:07:51,693 Speaker 3: of laundering money to politicians from the profits of the 1127 01:07:51,733 --> 01:07:55,733 Speaker 3: billions of dollars worth of ammunition and weapon sales approved 1128 01:07:55,773 --> 01:08:00,213 Speaker 3: by Congress to fund their endless wars. It is patently 1129 01:08:00,253 --> 01:08:03,733 Speaker 3: obvious that the Deep State will be attempting all nefarious 1130 01:08:03,733 --> 01:08:07,853 Speaker 3: means to stop Trump from becoming president again. They have 1131 01:08:07,933 --> 01:08:10,933 Speaker 3: already carried out numerous cases of law fare with the 1132 01:08:10,933 --> 01:08:13,453 Speaker 3: intent of putting him in jail. There have been two 1133 01:08:13,613 --> 01:08:17,533 Speaker 3: known assassination attempts on Trump in recent months. One avenue 1134 01:08:17,573 --> 01:08:20,893 Speaker 3: that the Democrats are taking this time is to steal 1135 01:08:20,933 --> 01:08:25,813 Speaker 3: the election by bastardizing the overseas voter system. They have 1136 01:08:25,933 --> 01:08:29,173 Speaker 3: been actively advertising on YouTube that US citizens can vote 1137 01:08:29,253 --> 01:08:31,853 Speaker 3: in the election from anywhere in the world. I'm not 1138 01:08:31,853 --> 01:08:35,413 Speaker 3: sure they don't do that anyway every year, but I'd 1139 01:08:35,493 --> 01:08:39,093 Speaker 3: stand corrected if necessary. The problem is there is no 1140 01:08:39,173 --> 01:08:42,133 Speaker 3: way of telling whether a person voting has US citizenship, 1141 01:08:42,533 --> 01:08:45,573 Speaker 3: as there is no requirement to provide ID or even 1142 01:08:45,573 --> 01:08:49,373 Speaker 3: a Social Security number, no requirement to have ever lived 1143 01:08:49,413 --> 01:08:52,613 Speaker 3: in the state you wish your vote to be counted, 1144 01:08:52,973 --> 01:08:57,373 Speaker 3: in which the Democrats hope to overwhelm the legitimate vote 1145 01:08:57,493 --> 01:09:01,573 Speaker 3: in swing states with these unverified citizens emailing their votes 1146 01:09:01,613 --> 01:09:05,013 Speaker 3: from overseas. The Democrats have already telegraphed their moves by 1147 01:09:05,053 --> 01:09:08,173 Speaker 3: stating that votes could take days or weeks after the 1148 01:09:08,253 --> 01:09:12,653 Speaker 3: US election day to fully count due to the expected 1149 01:09:12,653 --> 01:09:16,933 Speaker 3: influx of these highly dubious overseas votes. Same playbook as 1150 01:09:16,933 --> 01:09:21,573 Speaker 3: twenty twenty. Just keep manufacturing more Democrat votes after election 1151 01:09:21,693 --> 01:09:25,733 Speaker 3: day until they have surpassed the Republican vote. Needless to say, 1152 01:09:25,733 --> 01:09:28,173 Speaker 3: if the Democrats can't rig enough votes in their favor, 1153 01:09:28,373 --> 01:09:30,573 Speaker 3: It'll be left to the deep State to swart Trump's 1154 01:09:30,573 --> 01:09:34,933 Speaker 3: bid for the presidency, and that very likely will involve violence. 1155 01:09:35,373 --> 01:09:38,173 Speaker 3: As for Trump's competition in the race to the White House, 1156 01:09:38,693 --> 01:09:44,573 Speaker 3: Miss Cabbage Brain, I recommend watching Candace Owen's recent YouTube 1157 01:09:44,613 --> 01:09:47,413 Speaker 3: podcast where she delves into the bloodlines of the present 1158 01:09:47,533 --> 01:09:51,573 Speaker 3: Vice president. In recent months, Carmala Harris has been attempting 1159 01:09:51,613 --> 01:09:55,893 Speaker 3: to blackify her heritage in some perverted attempt to appeal 1160 01:09:55,893 --> 01:09:59,733 Speaker 3: to black voters. Harris has even falsely claimed in her 1161 01:09:59,773 --> 01:10:01,933 Speaker 3: autobiography that a photo of her standing next to a 1162 01:10:02,013 --> 01:10:05,253 Speaker 3: dark skinned house servant was a grandmother, when in reality 1163 01:10:05,293 --> 01:10:10,413 Speaker 3: evidence says her grandmother was very fa skin. Well, as 1164 01:10:10,453 --> 01:10:13,493 Speaker 3: you never forgets you would have had two. Cantice Owens 1165 01:10:13,493 --> 01:10:16,773 Speaker 3: over several recent podcasts, says come to the conclusion that 1166 01:10:16,893 --> 01:10:21,813 Speaker 3: Harris is Indian Irish. Owen's also interview judge Joe Brown 1167 01:10:21,853 --> 01:10:24,813 Speaker 3: this week over two hours long, but the judge knows 1168 01:10:24,853 --> 01:10:28,533 Speaker 3: his stuff and well worth watching. From David. There's a 1169 01:10:28,533 --> 01:10:32,293 Speaker 3: few claims in there that given more time, if David 1170 01:10:32,293 --> 01:10:36,493 Speaker 3: were on the phone, I discussed with him, but overall 1171 01:10:36,733 --> 01:10:41,293 Speaker 3: it's difficult to say that anything is straight out FB. 1172 01:10:41,813 --> 01:10:43,893 Speaker 3: Is that putting it delicately enough? Misproducer? 1173 01:10:44,133 --> 01:10:44,973 Speaker 7: I thank you. 1174 01:10:44,973 --> 01:10:45,373 Speaker 3: You have a. 1175 01:10:45,333 --> 01:10:49,413 Speaker 7: Disturbanced on the head of quite nicely right good? 1176 01:10:49,573 --> 01:10:51,093 Speaker 3: You had a disturbed look on your face. 1177 01:10:52,133 --> 01:10:55,853 Speaker 7: Ladon Craig says, I did hear a couple of responses 1178 01:10:55,893 --> 01:10:58,493 Speaker 7: to my email around the COVID passes and that was 1179 01:10:58,573 --> 01:11:04,093 Speaker 7: the email that you read. Was it not about COVID 1180 01:11:04,253 --> 01:11:06,533 Speaker 7: passes being well? 1181 01:11:07,013 --> 01:11:08,173 Speaker 3: He manufactured his own. 1182 01:11:09,893 --> 01:11:13,253 Speaker 7: I was comfortable circumventing the system when it was established 1183 01:11:13,293 --> 01:11:17,013 Speaker 7: that the job did not prevent transmission, which was actually 1184 01:11:17,053 --> 01:11:20,773 Speaker 7: before any were administered. I did not get an exemption 1185 01:11:21,653 --> 01:11:24,813 Speaker 7: on checking what was required. I visited a few cafes 1186 01:11:24,853 --> 01:11:28,573 Speaker 7: to see how the procedure worked. Most establishments scanned, but 1187 01:11:28,653 --> 01:11:33,213 Speaker 7: a number just viewed. The first pass I manufactured was 1188 01:11:33,253 --> 01:11:36,853 Speaker 7: for establishments that simply viewed the pass that was a 1189 01:11:36,853 --> 01:11:41,133 Speaker 7: computer generated one which was made by a year nine 1190 01:11:41,173 --> 01:11:45,613 Speaker 7: school child. The name and photo were mine. After a 1191 01:11:45,613 --> 01:11:47,853 Speaker 7: few weeks of using this pass, I decided to look 1192 01:11:47,893 --> 01:11:50,573 Speaker 7: at how and if it would be possible to develop 1193 01:11:50,613 --> 01:11:54,093 Speaker 7: a pass that could be scanned. That proved a step 1194 01:11:54,493 --> 01:11:57,373 Speaker 7: too far, so I decided to borrow a friend's pass 1195 01:11:57,413 --> 01:12:00,293 Speaker 7: and see what happened. I didn't think it would work, 1196 01:12:00,373 --> 01:12:02,373 Speaker 7: as the photo on the pass was of a thirty 1197 01:12:02,413 --> 01:12:06,133 Speaker 7: eight year old with dark hair and I am seventy five. 1198 01:12:05,933 --> 01:12:06,653 Speaker 4: With gray hair. 1199 01:12:07,293 --> 01:12:09,613 Speaker 7: What I found so and what to my amazement, was 1200 01:12:09,653 --> 01:12:12,693 Speaker 7: that when they scanned, they simply listened for the approval 1201 01:12:12,773 --> 01:12:15,693 Speaker 7: sound from the scanner and then simply handed back the 1202 01:12:15,733 --> 01:12:19,613 Speaker 7: carden and I went. Not once was I refused entry. 1203 01:12:19,813 --> 01:12:23,013 Speaker 7: I established as I entered what system was being used. 1204 01:12:23,053 --> 01:12:23,453 Speaker 4: Simple. 1205 01:12:24,293 --> 01:12:26,693 Speaker 7: I accept that some people may have an issue with 1206 01:12:26,813 --> 01:12:30,693 Speaker 7: my actions. However, I'm very relaxed. As I have already said, 1207 01:12:30,733 --> 01:12:33,173 Speaker 7: I only decided to do what I did when it 1208 01:12:33,213 --> 01:12:36,933 Speaker 7: was established that the JAB did not stop transmission. The 1209 01:12:37,013 --> 01:12:42,053 Speaker 7: draconian responses taken by the Ard Labor government was unacceptable, 1210 01:12:42,253 --> 01:12:45,853 Speaker 7: unethical and outside the bounds of the New Zealand Human 1211 01:12:45,933 --> 01:12:50,133 Speaker 7: Rights Act. Doing what I did also exposed another failure 1212 01:12:50,173 --> 01:12:53,533 Speaker 7: of the COVID response as dictated and implemented by the 1213 01:12:53,693 --> 01:12:58,573 Speaker 7: lying Ard Labor government. And he goes on to say, 1214 01:12:58,653 --> 01:13:02,533 Speaker 7: does Craig thanks for your weekly podcasts in this crazy world. 1215 01:13:02,573 --> 01:13:05,333 Speaker 7: It is great to hear your reasoned thoughts and common 1216 01:13:05,413 --> 01:13:07,053 Speaker 7: sense debates. 1217 01:13:07,133 --> 01:13:11,173 Speaker 3: And as to your moments, you can apply the same verbiage. 1218 01:13:12,053 --> 01:13:15,413 Speaker 3: Caroline writes, I've been catching up on your last few 1219 01:13:15,453 --> 01:13:18,733 Speaker 3: podcasts and so enjoying the critical and thoughtful manner in 1220 01:13:18,773 --> 01:13:23,973 Speaker 3: which you explore such landmine topics as vaccines, among others. 1221 01:13:25,133 --> 01:13:27,533 Speaker 3: I plan to share my vaccine story with you in 1222 01:13:27,573 --> 01:13:30,413 Speaker 3: a separate email, but I've just read this article which 1223 01:13:30,613 --> 01:13:34,933 Speaker 3: encapsulates so well I thought the state of public health, 1224 01:13:35,413 --> 01:13:39,173 Speaker 3: both in the US and New Zealand in Brackett. Since 1225 01:13:39,213 --> 01:13:42,053 Speaker 3: New Zealand follows the American model of healthcare and a 1226 01:13:42,093 --> 01:13:47,933 Speaker 3: whole holy Grail of vaccines, we are an increasingly sick population. 1227 01:13:48,813 --> 01:13:53,653 Speaker 3: As the number of vaccines, especially on the childhood immanization schedule, increases, 1228 01:13:54,173 --> 01:13:57,853 Speaker 3: so too does the rate of autism at other chronic diseases, 1229 01:13:58,053 --> 01:14:03,373 Speaker 3: autoimmune conditions, obesity, et cetera. In childhood. For instance, in 1230 01:14:03,413 --> 01:14:05,613 Speaker 3: my childhood, the rate of autism was around one in 1231 01:14:05,693 --> 01:14:09,333 Speaker 3: ten thousand, with only a handful of vaccines gins. Today 1232 01:14:09,413 --> 01:14:11,813 Speaker 3: there are rates of autism as high as one in 1233 01:14:11,933 --> 01:14:16,013 Speaker 3: thirty seven kids, with an exploding rate of shots given 1234 01:14:16,133 --> 01:14:19,693 Speaker 3: according to the childhood schedule from pregnancy up to eighteen. 1235 01:14:20,493 --> 01:14:23,733 Speaker 3: Yet there are still no clinical trials comparing vaccinated with 1236 01:14:23,973 --> 01:14:29,293 Speaker 3: unvaccinated children, except the Amish population in the US, who 1237 01:14:29,333 --> 01:14:33,373 Speaker 3: don't vaccinate their kids and where autism is almost unheard of. 1238 01:14:33,893 --> 01:14:37,053 Speaker 3: I've heard the excuse for this is that the Amish 1239 01:14:37,453 --> 01:14:42,533 Speaker 3: are a genetically different population. Parents are still being gas 1240 01:14:42,573 --> 01:14:46,213 Speaker 3: lit when they ask questions. Worse, they are coerced and 1241 01:14:46,253 --> 01:14:49,693 Speaker 3: manipulated into vaccinating their child in the complete absence of 1242 01:14:49,733 --> 01:14:53,853 Speaker 3: informed consent through a mixture of fear and guilt. Your 1243 01:14:53,933 --> 01:14:56,093 Speaker 3: child could be permanently harmed or die if you don't 1244 01:14:56,093 --> 01:15:02,213 Speaker 3: comply pressed onto them by medical professionals. In raggots these days, 1245 01:15:02,253 --> 01:15:07,253 Speaker 3: I use the term loosely close braggets who themselves are 1246 01:15:07,293 --> 01:15:10,533 Speaker 3: coerced and manipula d by public health officials and medical boards. 1247 01:15:11,053 --> 01:15:15,373 Speaker 3: The loss of career career, job status, and reputation is 1248 01:15:15,453 --> 01:15:18,413 Speaker 3: too much for most to bear, so they don't investigate 1249 01:15:18,493 --> 01:15:22,373 Speaker 3: vaccines other than what the official NOH line is. There 1250 01:15:22,373 --> 01:15:26,453 Speaker 3: are some fundamental questions or parents should ask. Firstly, where 1251 01:15:26,493 --> 01:15:31,493 Speaker 3: are the independent studies comparing vaxed versus unvaxed children? Second, 1252 01:15:31,733 --> 01:15:34,573 Speaker 3: where are the studies which can demonstrate how the different 1253 01:15:35,013 --> 01:15:40,053 Speaker 3: ingredients in different vaccines given together up to six vaccines 1254 01:15:40,093 --> 01:15:43,533 Speaker 3: and a time to my baby are safe and effective? 1255 01:15:44,253 --> 01:15:46,933 Speaker 3: And where are the full list of ingredients of all 1256 01:15:47,053 --> 01:15:51,373 Speaker 3: vaccines on the childhood Immunization schedule. The answer to all 1257 01:15:51,413 --> 01:15:52,373 Speaker 3: the above, of course. 1258 01:15:52,213 --> 01:15:53,493 Speaker 4: Is none. 1259 01:15:53,533 --> 01:15:57,133 Speaker 3: Parents need to get informed and ask these questions of 1260 01:15:57,213 --> 01:16:00,573 Speaker 3: their medical professional and firmly decline their child being used 1261 01:16:00,613 --> 01:16:03,253 Speaker 3: as a human guinea pig until they're able to give 1262 01:16:03,453 --> 01:16:08,413 Speaker 3: full and informed consent. I hope you enjoy the attached article. Caroline, 1263 01:16:08,653 --> 01:16:11,413 Speaker 3: thank you, and if there is sorry, I should add this. 1264 01:16:11,493 --> 01:16:16,693 Speaker 3: She is a retired pediatric nurse and plunket nurse, a 1265 01:16:16,773 --> 01:16:20,893 Speaker 3: mother of three now adult unvaccinated children, all healthy. By 1266 01:16:20,933 --> 01:16:23,733 Speaker 3: the way, now, if there is any other medical person 1267 01:16:23,813 --> 01:16:28,133 Speaker 3: who wants to comment of your life, Leyton. 1268 01:16:27,893 --> 01:16:32,213 Speaker 7: Renton says high Laighton, a periodic listener here, I appreciate 1269 01:16:32,253 --> 01:16:35,813 Speaker 7: your take on things. Thanks so much. I just listened 1270 01:16:35,813 --> 01:16:38,893 Speaker 7: to your interview of Anthony Willie very good. In it, 1271 01:16:38,973 --> 01:16:42,013 Speaker 7: a few references have made to the COVID idea and 1272 01:16:42,253 --> 01:16:46,973 Speaker 7: era what I call the COVID crap. Unfortunately, there is 1273 01:16:47,053 --> 01:16:49,613 Speaker 7: not a lot of clarity about this, even among those 1274 01:16:49,613 --> 01:16:53,613 Speaker 7: who opposed and oppose all the draconian measures justified on 1275 01:16:53,693 --> 01:16:57,773 Speaker 7: the basis of it. Most who took this stand, nevertheless 1276 01:16:57,813 --> 01:17:01,253 Speaker 7: still accept the basic narrative that there is a virus 1277 01:17:01,533 --> 01:17:05,533 Speaker 7: SARS cove two and that this virus causes a disease 1278 01:17:05,693 --> 01:17:10,573 Speaker 7: COVID nineteen. The main difference between those who were for 1279 01:17:10,933 --> 01:17:13,653 Speaker 7: and those who were against the measures was that the 1280 01:17:13,733 --> 01:17:17,293 Speaker 7: former said the virus and disease was deadly and required 1281 01:17:17,413 --> 01:17:24,173 Speaker 7: extraordinary measures to combat, including the removal of constitutionally guaranteed freedoms, 1282 01:17:24,493 --> 01:17:27,093 Speaker 7: whereas the latter said that the virus is not much 1283 01:17:27,133 --> 01:17:30,853 Speaker 7: different to the cold or the flu, and no special 1284 01:17:30,893 --> 01:17:33,373 Speaker 7: measures were required to deal with it. Certainly not the 1285 01:17:33,413 --> 01:17:37,053 Speaker 7: removal of our freedoms. I think the presumption of a 1286 01:17:37,133 --> 01:17:40,573 Speaker 7: virus and the disease it has claimed it caused is 1287 01:17:40,613 --> 01:17:43,453 Speaker 7: a serious error on the part of those who accept 1288 01:17:43,533 --> 01:17:47,973 Speaker 7: the second opinion and severely restricts their ability to oppose 1289 01:17:48,013 --> 01:17:52,093 Speaker 7: the tyranny imposed. They basically share the same view as 1290 01:17:52,173 --> 01:17:55,853 Speaker 7: those they oppose. And then Renton goes on to say, later, 1291 01:17:55,933 --> 01:17:58,773 Speaker 7: and he's produced a little video. He sent you the link, 1292 01:17:58,893 --> 01:18:00,413 Speaker 7: which I'm sure you've got. 1293 01:18:00,573 --> 01:18:01,093 Speaker 4: He says. 1294 01:18:01,773 --> 01:18:06,013 Speaker 7: His video challenges this presumption, and I think brings clarity 1295 01:18:06,053 --> 01:18:08,893 Speaker 7: to the issue. I commend it to your consideration. 1296 01:18:09,653 --> 01:18:11,533 Speaker 4: Pass it over and I'll give it. I'll give it 1297 01:18:11,573 --> 01:18:13,853 Speaker 4: a look, Thank you, thank you. Later. 1298 01:18:14,973 --> 01:18:17,293 Speaker 3: We shall see you next week. You will, at least 1299 01:18:17,293 --> 01:18:19,773 Speaker 3: I regime. I'm not sure about next week, to be honest, 1300 01:18:19,773 --> 01:18:25,413 Speaker 3: because well on Wednesday, I'm going to be sitting downstairs glued. 1301 01:18:26,573 --> 01:18:29,493 Speaker 7: There may be not podcast because you're you're going to be. 1302 01:18:29,653 --> 01:18:31,893 Speaker 3: No, they're going to be podcast. Patrick Besham's coming. 1303 01:18:31,773 --> 01:18:35,613 Speaker 4: Along fabulous, And I don't know how. I don't know 1304 01:18:35,693 --> 01:18:39,373 Speaker 4: quite how we're going to structure it at this point, but. 1305 01:18:39,893 --> 01:18:42,493 Speaker 3: We're going to a moving feast. It is a moving feast, 1306 01:18:43,613 --> 01:18:46,613 Speaker 3: and it's going to be a damn good one. Thank you, missus, Brittany, 1307 01:18:46,653 --> 01:18:59,533 Speaker 3: Thanks so much, Leighton Smith. Now I have to admit 1308 01:18:59,573 --> 01:19:03,413 Speaker 3: that I'm pushing my deadline. Clock to include this, but 1309 01:19:03,453 --> 01:19:05,773 Speaker 3: that's my fault. There is a war in the US. 1310 01:19:06,333 --> 01:19:08,973 Speaker 3: It is a propaganda war. It's a war that is 1311 01:19:09,253 --> 01:19:12,733 Speaker 3: aided and bettered by technology as much as anything else. 1312 01:19:12,973 --> 01:19:16,213 Speaker 3: A multiplicity of media in all its high tech forms, 1313 01:19:16,413 --> 01:19:21,853 Speaker 3: which lend themselves to deception, sad, wicked, and evil is 1314 01:19:21,893 --> 01:19:25,853 Speaker 3: the order of the day for some at least. Let 1315 01:19:25,893 --> 01:19:28,133 Speaker 3: me give you an example as an introduction, and not 1316 01:19:28,213 --> 01:19:32,413 Speaker 3: from where you think it would be coming. J Badicharia, 1317 01:19:32,813 --> 01:19:36,613 Speaker 3: an ab you probably familiar with, is a medical scientist. 1318 01:19:37,013 --> 01:19:42,413 Speaker 3: He has written on Brownstone the most devastating report so far, 1319 01:19:42,933 --> 01:19:45,693 Speaker 3: the House Report that is, the House of Representative report 1320 01:19:46,053 --> 01:19:52,573 Speaker 3: on HHS COVID propaganda is devastating. The Biden administration spent 1321 01:19:52,973 --> 01:19:56,613 Speaker 3: almost a billion dollars to push falsehoods about COVID vaccines, 1322 01:19:56,693 --> 01:20:00,533 Speaker 3: boosters and masks on the American people. If a farmer 1323 01:20:00,653 --> 01:20:04,173 Speaker 3: company had run the campaign, it would have been fined 1324 01:20:04,293 --> 01:20:08,693 Speaker 3: out of existence. HIHS engaged a pr firm, the Four's 1325 01:20:08,773 --> 01:20:12,533 Speaker 3: March Group, for the propaganda campaign. The main goal was 1326 01:20:12,573 --> 01:20:19,093 Speaker 3: to increase cod COVID vas uptake. The strategy one exaggerate 1327 01:20:19,173 --> 01:20:22,773 Speaker 3: COVID mortality risk. Two downplayed the fact that there was 1328 01:20:22,853 --> 01:20:27,133 Speaker 3: no good evidence that the COVID vax stops transmission. The 1329 01:20:27,173 --> 01:20:31,893 Speaker 3: propaganda campaign extended beyond VAX's uptake and included exaggerating mask 1330 01:20:32,053 --> 01:20:37,253 Speaker 3: efficacy and pushing for social distancing and school closures. Ultimately, 1331 01:20:37,293 --> 01:20:40,973 Speaker 3: since the messaging did not match reality, the campaign collapsed 1332 01:20:41,013 --> 01:20:45,373 Speaker 3: public trust in public health. The pr firm drew most 1333 01:20:45,373 --> 01:20:49,893 Speaker 3: of its faulty science from the CDC's guidance so for 1334 01:20:50,013 --> 01:20:55,453 Speaker 3: Disease Control guidance, which ignored the FDA's findings on the 1335 01:20:55,493 --> 01:20:59,573 Speaker 3: vaccine's limitations FDA being Food and Drug Administration, as well 1336 01:20:59,653 --> 01:21:04,053 Speaker 3: as scientific findings from other countries that contradicted CDC group think. 1337 01:21:04,373 --> 01:21:08,293 Speaker 3: The report details the CDC's mask flip flopping through the years. 1338 01:21:08,813 --> 01:21:13,173 Speaker 3: It's especially infuriating to recall the CDC's weird, anti scientific, 1339 01:21:13,253 --> 01:21:17,853 Speaker 3: anti human focus on masking toddlers with cloth masks in 1340 01:21:17,933 --> 01:21:23,293 Speaker 3: twenty twenty two. President Biden's COVID advisor waited until December 1341 01:21:23,333 --> 01:21:26,653 Speaker 3: twenty twenty two, right after leaving government service, to tell 1342 01:21:26,693 --> 01:21:29,693 Speaker 3: the country that there is no study in the world 1343 01:21:29,813 --> 01:21:33,013 Speaker 3: that shows that masks worked that well. What took him 1344 01:21:33,093 --> 01:21:37,173 Speaker 3: so long? The propaganda campaign hired celebrities and influences to 1345 01:21:37,413 --> 01:21:41,173 Speaker 3: persuade children to get the COVID vacks. I think if 1346 01:21:41,173 --> 01:21:43,973 Speaker 3: a celebrity is paid to advertise a faulty product, that 1347 01:21:44,093 --> 01:21:47,733 Speaker 3: celebrity should be partially liable for if the product harms 1348 01:21:47,773 --> 01:21:51,933 Speaker 3: the people. In the absence of evidence, the propaganda campaign 1349 01:21:52,053 --> 01:21:55,333 Speaker 3: ran ads telling parents that the vaccine would prevent their 1350 01:21:55,413 --> 01:21:58,853 Speaker 3: kids from getting long COVID. With a collapse in public 1351 01:21:58,893 --> 01:22:02,733 Speaker 3: trust in the CDC, parents have begun to question all 1352 01:22:02,973 --> 01:22:08,493 Speaker 3: CDC advice. Predictably, the HHS propaganda campaign has led to 1353 01:22:08,533 --> 01:22:12,933 Speaker 3: a decline in the uptake of routine childhood vaccines. That 1354 01:22:12,973 --> 01:22:16,933 Speaker 3: would please some people. But so that's an example from 1355 01:22:16,973 --> 01:22:20,533 Speaker 3: a different field from politics. But basically you can say 1356 01:22:20,533 --> 01:22:24,213 Speaker 3: that it's all politics one way or the other. Now, 1357 01:22:24,253 --> 01:22:27,453 Speaker 3: the core of my point has been contributed to by 1358 01:22:28,653 --> 01:22:31,213 Speaker 3: the owner of the Washington Post. Now, I've been critical 1359 01:22:31,213 --> 01:22:33,493 Speaker 3: of the Washington Post time and time and time again. 1360 01:22:34,053 --> 01:22:38,093 Speaker 3: I've said things like, let's be inclusive here. I've said 1361 01:22:38,133 --> 01:22:41,613 Speaker 3: things like, if you're getting your information from the Washington 1362 01:22:41,693 --> 01:22:45,773 Speaker 3: Post or the New York Times, don't believe it until 1363 01:22:45,813 --> 01:22:49,053 Speaker 3: it's verified by more than one other at least one 1364 01:22:49,053 --> 01:22:52,653 Speaker 3: other source. Why, because they are not to be trusted 1365 01:22:53,733 --> 01:22:56,693 Speaker 3: and if you wanted, if you wanted, now the evidence 1366 01:22:57,053 --> 01:23:00,773 Speaker 3: for my approach to this for some considerable time, it's 1367 01:23:00,773 --> 01:23:03,293 Speaker 3: been delivered by the best person that could possibly be. 1368 01:23:03,573 --> 01:23:07,293 Speaker 3: I mean, I can refer to mak Levin's books on 1369 01:23:08,013 --> 01:23:10,813 Speaker 3: the met there and on the Democrat Party and other things, 1370 01:23:10,853 --> 01:23:14,693 Speaker 3: but this actually takes the cake, and you probably are 1371 01:23:14,733 --> 01:23:17,293 Speaker 3: aware of it by now. In what is likely even 1372 01:23:17,333 --> 01:23:20,933 Speaker 3: more harrowing for the co op editors at the Washington Post, 1373 01:23:21,773 --> 01:23:25,733 Speaker 3: Jeff Bezos, its owner, has just penned an explainer for 1374 01:23:25,813 --> 01:23:29,893 Speaker 3: his decision to not allow the Liberal Rag to endorse Kamala. 1375 01:23:30,253 --> 01:23:33,773 Speaker 3: We present the opinion piece here in full. This is 1376 01:23:34,173 --> 01:23:37,973 Speaker 3: shocking levels of honesty, the hard truth. Americans don't trust 1377 01:23:38,013 --> 01:23:41,693 Speaker 3: the news media. The credibility gap can be bridged by independence. 1378 01:23:42,333 --> 01:23:46,093 Speaker 3: In the annual public surveys about trust and reputation, journalists 1379 01:23:46,133 --> 01:23:49,133 Speaker 3: in the media have regularly fallen near the very bottom, 1380 01:23:49,413 --> 01:23:52,653 Speaker 3: often just above Congress. But in this year's galluphole, we 1381 01:23:52,733 --> 01:23:56,253 Speaker 3: have managed to fall below Congress. Our profession is now 1382 01:23:56,533 --> 01:24:01,453 Speaker 3: the least trusted of all that is journalism mainstream. Something 1383 01:24:01,493 --> 01:24:03,613 Speaker 3: we are doing is clearly not working. Let me give 1384 01:24:03,653 --> 01:24:08,533 Speaker 3: an analogy voting machines must must meet two requirements. They 1385 01:24:08,653 --> 01:24:12,533 Speaker 3: must count the vote accurately, and people must believe they 1386 01:24:12,573 --> 01:24:16,733 Speaker 3: count the vote accurately. The second requirement is distinct from 1387 01:24:16,813 --> 01:24:20,733 Speaker 3: and just as important as the first. Likewise, with newspapers, 1388 01:24:21,133 --> 01:24:23,893 Speaker 3: we must be accurate, and we must be believed to 1389 01:24:23,893 --> 01:24:26,933 Speaker 3: be accurate. It's a bitter pill to swallow, but we 1390 01:24:27,013 --> 01:24:30,413 Speaker 3: are failing on the second requirement. Most people believe the 1391 01:24:30,453 --> 01:24:33,893 Speaker 3: media is biased. Anyone who doesn't see this is paying 1392 01:24:33,933 --> 01:24:37,733 Speaker 3: scant attention to reality, and those who fight reality lose. 1393 01:24:38,253 --> 01:24:42,213 Speaker 3: Reality is an undefeated champion. It would be easy to 1394 01:24:42,253 --> 01:24:45,893 Speaker 3: blame others for our long and continuing fall incredibility and 1395 01:24:45,933 --> 01:24:50,093 Speaker 3: therefore decline in impact, but a victim mentality will not help. 1396 01:24:50,573 --> 01:24:53,653 Speaker 3: Complaining is not a strategy. We must work harder to 1397 01:24:53,733 --> 01:24:59,133 Speaker 3: control what we can control to increase our credibility. Writing 1398 01:24:59,173 --> 01:25:03,853 Speaker 3: this for the staff of the Washington Post, presidential endorsements 1399 01:25:03,893 --> 01:25:06,293 Speaker 3: do nothing to tip the scales of an election. I'm 1400 01:25:06,333 --> 01:25:08,333 Speaker 3: not going to go into that. It's been done elsewhere, 1401 01:25:08,373 --> 01:25:12,693 Speaker 3: including on radio. I don't know how much of it, though, 1402 01:25:12,773 --> 01:25:17,853 Speaker 3: has been expressed, he writes. Secondly, I would also like 1403 01:25:17,893 --> 01:25:20,653 Speaker 3: to be clear that no quid pro quo of any 1404 01:25:20,813 --> 01:25:24,213 Speaker 3: kind is at work here. Neither campaign nor candidate was 1405 01:25:24,253 --> 01:25:26,933 Speaker 3: consulted or informed at any level or in any way 1406 01:25:26,933 --> 01:25:30,893 Speaker 3: about this decision. It was made entirely internally. Dave Limp, 1407 01:25:31,013 --> 01:25:33,853 Speaker 3: the chief executive of one of my company's blue origin, 1408 01:25:34,253 --> 01:25:36,893 Speaker 3: met with former President Donald Trump on the day of 1409 01:25:36,893 --> 01:25:40,613 Speaker 3: our announcement. I sighed when I found out, because I 1410 01:25:40,693 --> 01:25:43,893 Speaker 3: knew it would provide ammunition to those who would like 1411 01:25:43,933 --> 01:25:48,013 Speaker 3: to frame this as anything other than a principal decision. 1412 01:25:48,413 --> 01:25:51,733 Speaker 3: But the fact is I didn't know about the meeting beforehand. 1413 01:25:51,773 --> 01:25:53,973 Speaker 3: Even Limp didn't know about it and advance The meeting 1414 01:25:54,053 --> 01:25:57,413 Speaker 3: was scheduled quickly that morning. There is no connection between 1415 01:25:57,453 --> 01:26:01,933 Speaker 3: it and our decision on presidential endorsements, and any suggestion 1416 01:26:02,293 --> 01:26:06,013 Speaker 3: otherwise is false. You can see my wealth and business 1417 01:26:06,093 --> 01:26:10,053 Speaker 3: interests as a bulwark against intimate or if you can 1418 01:26:10,173 --> 01:26:12,573 Speaker 3: see them as a web of or you can see 1419 01:26:12,573 --> 01:26:15,893 Speaker 3: them as a web of conflicting interests. Only my own 1420 01:26:15,933 --> 01:26:18,773 Speaker 3: principles can tip the balance from one to the other. 1421 01:26:19,253 --> 01:26:22,613 Speaker 3: I assure you my views here are in fact principled, 1422 01:26:23,093 --> 01:26:25,173 Speaker 3: and I believe my tracker are good. As owner of 1423 01:26:25,213 --> 01:26:28,133 Speaker 3: the post since twenty thirteen, backs this up. You are, 1424 01:26:28,173 --> 01:26:30,613 Speaker 3: of course free to make your own determination, but I 1425 01:26:30,733 --> 01:26:33,813 Speaker 3: challenge you to find one instance in those eleven years 1426 01:26:33,853 --> 01:26:37,853 Speaker 3: where I have prevailed upon anyone at the Post in 1427 01:26:37,853 --> 01:26:42,253 Speaker 3: favor of my own interests. It has not happened. Lack 1428 01:26:42,293 --> 01:26:46,333 Speaker 3: of credibility isn't unique to the Post. Our brethren newspapers 1429 01:26:46,413 --> 01:26:49,573 Speaker 3: have the same issue, and it's a problem not only 1430 01:26:49,613 --> 01:26:52,453 Speaker 3: for media, but also for the nation. Many people are 1431 01:26:52,493 --> 01:26:57,453 Speaker 3: turning to off the cuff podcasts, inaccurate social media posts, 1432 01:26:57,493 --> 01:27:01,733 Speaker 3: and other unverified new sources, which can quickly spread misinformation 1433 01:27:01,933 --> 01:27:04,933 Speaker 3: and deepened divisions. The Washington Post and The New York 1434 01:27:04,933 --> 01:27:08,293 Speaker 3: Times win prizes, but increasingly we talk only to TI 1435 01:27:08,373 --> 01:27:12,213 Speaker 3: do a certain elite. More and more we talk to 1436 01:27:12,293 --> 01:27:15,813 Speaker 3: ourselves in brackets. He writes. It wasn't always this way. 1437 01:27:16,093 --> 01:27:19,253 Speaker 3: In the nineteen nineties, we achieved eighty percent household penetration 1438 01:27:19,373 --> 01:27:22,773 Speaker 3: in the DC metro area. While I do not wish 1439 01:27:22,813 --> 01:27:26,573 Speaker 3: to push my personal interest, I will also not allow 1440 01:27:26,653 --> 01:27:30,733 Speaker 3: this paper to stay on autopilot and fade into irrelevance, 1441 01:27:30,853 --> 01:27:36,973 Speaker 3: overtaken by unresearched podcasts and social media barbs, not without 1442 01:27:37,013 --> 01:27:40,733 Speaker 3: a fight. It's too important. The stakes are too high. 1443 01:27:41,173 --> 01:27:44,413 Speaker 3: Now more than ever, the world needs a credible, trusted, 1444 01:27:44,493 --> 01:27:48,813 Speaker 3: independent voice, and we're better for that voice to originate 1445 01:27:48,853 --> 01:27:51,693 Speaker 3: than the capital city of the most important country in 1446 01:27:51,773 --> 01:27:56,013 Speaker 3: the world. Are more. There's more writing, more details, but 1447 01:27:56,133 --> 01:28:00,253 Speaker 3: you get the picture. The Washington Post has been recognized 1448 01:28:00,293 --> 01:28:05,533 Speaker 3: by its owner as being not just unreliable, but misleading 1449 01:28:06,013 --> 01:28:09,413 Speaker 3: and lying. And they have been whther or not this 1450 01:28:09,493 --> 01:28:11,893 Speaker 3: makes a difference, and how much of a difference it makes, 1451 01:28:11,973 --> 01:28:16,733 Speaker 3: because the staff are very upset. Then we have to 1452 01:28:16,733 --> 01:28:20,333 Speaker 3: wait and see. But you get the point. The verification 1453 01:28:20,813 --> 01:28:23,093 Speaker 3: has been made, by the way, if I didn't mention it. 1454 01:28:23,173 --> 01:28:28,173 Speaker 3: The title of the article published on zero Hedge after 1455 01:28:28,373 --> 01:28:33,973 Speaker 3: colossal exodus of subscribers Washington Post, Bars Bezas explains the 1456 01:28:34,013 --> 01:28:38,053 Speaker 3: hard truth about not endorsing Karmada. I may have mentioned 1457 01:28:38,053 --> 01:28:40,373 Speaker 3: that at the beginning, I don't recall. According to two 1458 01:28:40,453 --> 01:28:44,053 Speaker 3: sources within the paper and familiar with the subscriber exodus, 1459 01:28:44,853 --> 01:28:49,333 Speaker 3: over two hundred thousand digital subscription cancelations had occurred by 1460 01:28:49,493 --> 01:28:55,973 Speaker 3: Monday afternoon of this week. Not all cancelations take effect immediately. Still, 1461 01:28:56,013 --> 01:28:59,013 Speaker 3: the figure represents about eight percent of the paper's paid 1462 01:28:59,173 --> 01:29:05,213 Speaker 3: circulation of two point five million and it's still spreading apparently, 1463 01:29:06,733 --> 01:29:10,173 Speaker 3: so you can see why the new nervousness. Whether he 1464 01:29:10,293 --> 01:29:12,933 Speaker 3: was spooked into doing that or had it on his 1465 01:29:13,013 --> 01:29:16,933 Speaker 3: mind anyway because he was uncomfortable with the falsehoods that 1466 01:29:17,053 --> 01:29:20,973 Speaker 3: emanated from that address, I don't know. And while there 1467 01:29:21,013 --> 01:29:25,613 Speaker 3: are many, many, many examples of what's going on, I 1468 01:29:25,613 --> 01:29:30,733 Speaker 3: would imagine that many of you, most maybe hopefully are 1469 01:29:30,773 --> 01:29:33,293 Speaker 3: aware of it and have been keeping track of it. 1470 01:29:33,853 --> 01:29:37,813 Speaker 3: But let me conclude this podcast with something I mentioned 1471 01:29:38,133 --> 01:29:41,973 Speaker 3: earlier I think in the interview that is the thin 1472 01:29:42,133 --> 01:29:47,293 Speaker 3: blue line university professors are approaching near unanimity as a 1473 01:29:47,533 --> 01:29:50,853 Speaker 3: democratic lock and written by Jonathan Turley. You'll find it 1474 01:29:50,933 --> 01:29:55,053 Speaker 3: at Jonathan Turley tu l Ey dot org Jonathan Turley 1475 01:29:55,213 --> 01:29:58,773 Speaker 3: dot org. He says, below is my column in The 1476 01:29:58,853 --> 01:30:01,973 Speaker 3: Hill on the recent poll of university professors in this 1477 01:30:02,053 --> 01:30:05,613 Speaker 3: election speaks volumes about the composition of higher education today. 1478 01:30:06,613 --> 01:30:10,173 Speaker 3: Here is the column. The twenty twenty four presidential election 1479 01:30:10,293 --> 01:30:13,213 Speaker 3: is shaping up to be the single most divisive election 1480 01:30:13,493 --> 01:30:17,813 Speaker 3: in our history. The public is split right down the middle, 1481 01:30:17,973 --> 01:30:22,573 Speaker 3: with almost every group splintering between former President Donald Trump 1482 01:30:22,933 --> 01:30:26,813 Speaker 3: and Vice President Carmala Harris. There is, however, one group 1483 01:30:26,933 --> 01:30:31,293 Speaker 3: that seems almost unanimous professors. A new survey of more 1484 01:30:31,333 --> 01:30:34,573 Speaker 3: than one thousand professors shows that seventy eight percent will 1485 01:30:34,653 --> 01:30:37,573 Speaker 3: vote for Harrison, only eight percent will vote for Trump. 1486 01:30:38,533 --> 01:30:41,893 Speaker 3: For anyone in higher education, the result is hardly surprising. 1487 01:30:42,213 --> 01:30:45,973 Speaker 3: The poll tracks what we already know about the gradual 1488 01:30:46,053 --> 01:30:51,093 Speaker 3: purging of departments around the country of conservative, libertarian, and 1489 01:30:51,173 --> 01:30:55,773 Speaker 3: dissenting professors. Indeed, the lack of political and intellectual diversity 1490 01:30:56,333 --> 01:30:59,893 Speaker 3: may be turning some donors and even applicants from higher education. 1491 01:31:00,373 --> 01:31:04,413 Speaker 3: With failing revenue at applications, universities are starting to re 1492 01:31:04,493 --> 01:31:10,093 Speaker 3: embrace commitments to neutrality on political issues. Some, however, are 1493 01:31:10,173 --> 01:31:14,333 Speaker 3: doubling down on advocacy and orthodoxy. It is an example. 1494 01:31:14,573 --> 01:31:17,613 Speaker 3: In an op ed this week, Wesleyan University president Michael 1495 01:31:17,693 --> 01:31:23,773 Speaker 3: Ross called on universities to reject institutional neutrality and officially 1496 01:31:23,773 --> 01:31:30,693 Speaker 3: support Carmela Harris, calling neutrality a retreat cowardly if you want, 1497 01:31:30,893 --> 01:31:34,333 Speaker 3: if you are another word, Ross compared Trump's election to 1498 01:31:34,413 --> 01:31:37,853 Speaker 3: the rise of the Nazis and insisted that schools should 1499 01:31:38,053 --> 01:31:41,653 Speaker 3: give up the popular pastime of criticizing the woke and 1500 01:31:41,773 --> 01:31:45,893 Speaker 3: call out instead the overt racism. He added, without a 1501 01:31:45,973 --> 01:31:50,133 Speaker 3: hint of self awareness or irony, that we should not 1502 01:31:50,253 --> 01:31:54,173 Speaker 3: be silenced because of fears of appearing partisan. In my book, 1503 01:31:54,173 --> 01:31:57,173 Speaker 3: writes Turny, the indispensable right free speech in an Age 1504 01:31:57,173 --> 01:32:01,053 Speaker 3: of Rage, I discussed the intolerance in higher education and 1505 01:32:01,253 --> 01:32:05,613 Speaker 3: surveys showing that many departments no longer have a single 1506 01:32:05,653 --> 01:32:10,373 Speaker 3: Republican as faculties replicate their own views and values. So 1507 01:32:10,533 --> 01:32:14,053 Speaker 3: not only are professors voting on mass for Harris, Roth 1508 01:32:14,093 --> 01:32:17,173 Speaker 3: would have the schools themselves work openly for her election. 1509 01:32:17,693 --> 01:32:20,973 Speaker 3: That ideological echo chamber is hardly an denticement for many 1510 01:32:21,053 --> 01:32:25,333 Speaker 3: who are facing rising high tuition costs with relatively little 1511 01:32:25,373 --> 01:32:29,413 Speaker 3: hope of being taught by faculty with opposing views. There 1512 01:32:29,413 --> 01:32:33,093 Speaker 3: are obviously many reasons why faculty may reject Trump specifically, 1513 01:32:33,453 --> 01:32:38,053 Speaker 3: but this poll also tracks more generally the self identification 1514 01:32:38,333 --> 01:32:44,133 Speaker 3: and contributions of faculty. A Georgetown University study recently found 1515 01:32:44,173 --> 01:32:46,853 Speaker 3: that only nine percent of law school professors identify as 1516 01:32:46,893 --> 01:32:51,733 Speaker 3: conservative at the top fifty law schools, al most identical 1517 01:32:51,813 --> 01:32:56,333 Speaker 3: to the percentage of Trump voters found in the new poll. Notably, 1518 01:32:56,453 --> 01:33:00,533 Speaker 3: Roth acknowledged that the current lack of intellectual diversity in 1519 01:33:00,613 --> 01:33:04,533 Speaker 3: higher education has become so extreme that there might be 1520 01:33:04,533 --> 01:33:08,653 Speaker 3: a need for an affirmative action program for conservatives. Stop there, 1521 01:33:08,773 --> 01:33:13,533 Speaker 3: because I want to throw in something else that came 1522 01:33:13,573 --> 01:33:18,253 Speaker 3: into my possession by being sent to me. It's an 1523 01:33:18,253 --> 01:33:21,373 Speaker 3: opinion piece from the Sydney Morning Herald on the twenty 1524 01:33:21,413 --> 01:33:27,453 Speaker 3: sixth of October, headed Trump's Garden Party echoes America's Nazi 1525 01:33:27,533 --> 01:33:32,333 Speaker 3: Moment by Bruce wolp Wlpe if you give you his 1526 01:33:32,373 --> 01:33:36,813 Speaker 3: credentials is a senior fellow at the University of Sydney's 1527 01:33:36,893 --> 01:33:42,173 Speaker 3: United States Studies Center. He served on Democratic staff with 1528 01:33:42,333 --> 01:33:46,933 Speaker 3: the US Congress and as chief of staff for former 1529 01:33:46,973 --> 01:33:50,453 Speaker 3: Prime Minister Julia Gillard. It's a hit piece on Trump 1530 01:33:50,853 --> 01:33:55,373 Speaker 3: of the ugliest and most untruthful kind. It is littered 1531 01:33:55,573 --> 01:34:01,013 Speaker 3: with falsehoods and lies. He likens the Trump rally at 1532 01:34:01,053 --> 01:34:05,333 Speaker 3: Madison Square Garden to the Nazi rally that was there 1533 01:34:05,373 --> 01:34:11,973 Speaker 3: in nineteen thirty nine, comparison that's been made by almost 1534 01:34:12,173 --> 01:34:16,253 Speaker 3: every Democrat in the last couple of weeks. It's built 1535 01:34:16,333 --> 01:34:20,013 Speaker 3: up and they think now they've got momentum, but it's 1536 01:34:20,173 --> 01:34:23,453 Speaker 3: about the only thing that they have to run with. 1537 01:34:24,013 --> 01:34:28,613 Speaker 3: Calling Trump a Nazi and expanding on it obestly. He 1538 01:34:28,693 --> 01:34:31,973 Speaker 3: repeats the lies that are attributed to the Joint Chiefs 1539 01:34:32,013 --> 01:34:35,573 Speaker 3: of Staff a million particular, who refused to deploy the 1540 01:34:35,693 --> 01:34:39,133 Speaker 3: army forces to put down demonstrations in cities across America 1541 01:34:39,253 --> 01:34:43,053 Speaker 3: in the wake of the murder by police of George Floyd. 1542 01:34:43,653 --> 01:34:46,133 Speaker 3: We all know that story. No one has ever been 1543 01:34:46,173 --> 01:34:48,573 Speaker 3: as dangerous to this country as Donald Trump. Billy told 1544 01:34:48,613 --> 01:34:52,733 Speaker 3: Bob Woodwood for his new book War. Now I realize 1545 01:34:52,733 --> 01:34:56,533 Speaker 3: he's a total fascist. He's the most dangerous person in 1546 01:34:56,573 --> 01:35:00,493 Speaker 3: this country. Well, Milly hates Trump with a vengeance because 1547 01:35:00,493 --> 01:35:03,133 Speaker 3: Trump called him out. There is no truth to the 1548 01:35:03,173 --> 01:35:06,613 Speaker 3: claim that Trump is a fascist, no evidence for it whatsoever. 1549 01:35:07,133 --> 01:35:09,413 Speaker 3: There are lies that have been told about comments that 1550 01:35:09,453 --> 01:35:15,813 Speaker 3: Trump made about Hitler's henchmen, but they have been disowned 1551 01:35:15,853 --> 01:35:18,013 Speaker 3: by other people who were president at the times. Had 1552 01:35:18,053 --> 01:35:22,933 Speaker 3: never happened, never happened. It is an ugly, ugly campaign 1553 01:35:23,253 --> 01:35:27,453 Speaker 3: and I can only say, may the best man win, 1554 01:35:28,933 --> 01:35:31,533 Speaker 3: And as there is only one man and only one 1555 01:35:31,653 --> 01:35:37,933 Speaker 3: best of anything of either, that's Trump. It's fascinating to 1556 01:35:37,933 --> 01:35:41,613 Speaker 3: see the people who have who have changed sides, and 1557 01:35:41,653 --> 01:35:44,213 Speaker 3: we've picked those names up over the over the over 1558 01:35:44,253 --> 01:35:47,053 Speaker 3: the course of the last few months who've changed sides, 1559 01:35:47,093 --> 01:35:49,893 Speaker 3: people who have been Democrats in the past and realized 1560 01:35:49,893 --> 01:35:54,133 Speaker 3: that the Democrats are the major issue and gone to 1561 01:35:54,213 --> 01:35:57,173 Speaker 3: join the ranks of the Republicans one way or the other. 1562 01:35:57,893 --> 01:36:00,893 Speaker 3: And the next time we podcast it'll be election day, 1563 01:36:01,813 --> 01:36:04,253 Speaker 3: and I can't wait for it because the role. I 1564 01:36:04,293 --> 01:36:06,893 Speaker 3: know what the result is and I've mentioned it, mentioned 1565 01:36:06,893 --> 01:36:11,053 Speaker 3: it last week. Trump will we and I'm thinking landslide. 1566 01:36:11,333 --> 01:36:13,173 Speaker 3: I really don't think it's going to be as close 1567 01:36:13,213 --> 01:36:17,093 Speaker 3: as some people are suggesting or have been, in spite 1568 01:36:17,133 --> 01:36:20,533 Speaker 3: of what some polls might be saying. At that point, 1569 01:36:21,013 --> 01:36:22,933 Speaker 3: I'm going to say, if you'd like to write to 1570 01:36:23,013 --> 01:36:26,533 Speaker 3: us Layton at ustorksb dot co dot nz, well Carolyn 1571 01:36:26,573 --> 01:36:30,573 Speaker 3: at ustorksb dot co dot nz, send you nice comments 1572 01:36:30,573 --> 01:36:33,933 Speaker 3: to me and the complaints to her, and we shall 1573 01:36:33,973 --> 01:36:37,333 Speaker 3: return for podcasts two hundred and sixty three next week 1574 01:36:38,533 --> 01:36:41,653 Speaker 3: Huge Day. Until then, there's always thank you for listening, 1575 01:36:42,133 --> 01:36:43,013 Speaker 3: and we'll talk soon. 1576 01:36:50,773 --> 01:36:54,733 Speaker 1: Thank you for more from us Talks B. Listen live 1577 01:36:54,933 --> 01:36:57,653 Speaker 1: on air or online, and keep our shows with you 1578 01:36:57,733 --> 01:37:00,733 Speaker 1: wherever you go. With our podcasts on iHeartRadio