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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Saturday Morning with Jack team podcast

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Speaker 1: from News Talks at b.

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Speaker 2: Mark Graham is a legend in rugby league. He's been

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Speaker 2: named New Zealand Rugby League Player of the Century and

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Speaker 2: he's the only player to have made it into both

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Speaker 2: the New Zealand and the Australian Rugby League Calls of Fame.

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Speaker 2: As a player, he was of course known for his size,

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Speaker 2: his speed, his skill, his toughness. He was a predator

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Speaker 2: and a sea of sharks. Now Mark's son Luke Luke

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Speaker 2: Graham is a filmmaker and Luke's newest film is a

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Speaker 2: documentary about his dad. Sharko tells the story of the

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Speaker 2: man who changed rugby league and carried his teams in

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Speaker 2: country to the doorstep of greatness while remaining somewhat of

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Speaker 2: a mystery. Have a listen.

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Speaker 3: Mark Graham is appurance of me the greatest player there's ever.

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Speaker 1: Been, Captain Mark Graham RL Mark Graham.

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Speaker 2: Mark Graham is said to be the first New Zealander

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Speaker 2: to be adapted into the NRLs Hall of Fame.

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Speaker 1: Rugby lee is the toughest game in the world.

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Speaker 3: It's a gladiator game.

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Speaker 2: Mark and Luke Graham are both with us on the

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Speaker 2: show today. Thanks for joining us, gentlemen.

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Speaker 4: Thank you very much. Take nice to be here.

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Speaker 5: Thank you, sir.

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Speaker 2: Nice to be chatting with you. Look, we should start

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Speaker 2: with you. You have You've produced all sorts of work

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Speaker 2: over the years, but I can only imagine this is

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Speaker 2: some of your most personal. Why did you tell decide

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Speaker 2: to tell your dad's story?

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Speaker 6: Well, it is my most personal and obviously when you

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Speaker 6: see your seat, it's it was for multiple reasons. To

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Speaker 6: be honest, my father's you know, he's looking it in.

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Speaker 5: He's my idol.

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Speaker 6: He's someone that I've always proudly looked up to, and

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Speaker 6: I've been so proud of his success his career. It

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Speaker 6: was another opportunity to.

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Speaker 4: To show it.

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Speaker 6: And to show rugby league in an era which I

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Speaker 6: think I loved more than I guess Sally Today's you

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Speaker 6: know today's there are I love rugby league back then.

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Speaker 5: I grew up in it.

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Speaker 6: I looked up to the players, and you know, to

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Speaker 6: be honest, these were people that gave their their bodies,

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Speaker 6: their lives for something they loved, but not very much money.

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Speaker 6: And filmmaking myself in a in an industry which is

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Speaker 6: very hard, I really looked up to those people and

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Speaker 6: I still do, to be honest, and it was it

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Speaker 6: was amazing to chat to them, and and you know

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Speaker 6: other reasons I know it was it was a selfishly

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Speaker 6: selfish reason to get to know my family even more

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Speaker 6: and get to show this family.

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Speaker 5: To the world.

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Speaker 2: So did you have any reservations, you know, for some

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Speaker 2: people taking on a really personal project like this would

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Speaker 2: be you know, of course for a bit of anxiety

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Speaker 2: or something like that.

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Speaker 5: Complete complete anxiety the whole time, even now.

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Speaker 6: And I think my most anxious moment was my first

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Speaker 6: and most anxious moment was Dad talking to Dad about it.

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Speaker 6: We had gone back to New Zealand in twenty seventeen

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Speaker 6: on an trip for his forty year reunion for the

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Speaker 6: Auckland team to beat us Prayer France and England, and

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Speaker 6: we started talking about it Dan the first time we

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Speaker 6: did our interviews. So we did interviews which we're seeing

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Speaker 6: the documentary. Was very nervous obviously because we talked about

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Speaker 6: personal things that we'd never talked about before.

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Speaker 5: And lastly was.

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Speaker 6: Showing Dad a version of the film in his house

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Speaker 6: and nervously watching his interactions. You know, even when you

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Speaker 6: had the comedic parts in the film and the very

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Speaker 6: emotional parts.

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Speaker 5: Just seen how he reacted.

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Speaker 6: To it, and yeah, we got through the other end

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Speaker 6: and we had a hug and it was lovely.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Mark, what were your reservations, because you make it pretty

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Speaker 2: clear in the film you're not someone who usually leaps

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Speaker 2: at every opportunity to talk about himself.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Well, as I said to Luke early on, and I

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Speaker 3: think part of the indigowing I'm sure was Lenk's at

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Speaker 3: that left it in there. But I wasn't really sure

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Speaker 3: that anyone would be that keen on watching it to

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Speaker 3: tell you the truth. So, I mean, you know, the

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Speaker 3: cinematic part with Lenk's involvement, but yeah, like my my

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Speaker 3: football career is dead and buried in the will. I

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Speaker 3: used to love the game. Yeah, I just didn't have

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Speaker 3: anyone to be that interested in to tell you the truth.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean I think I think, dare I

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Speaker 2: say you're wrong on that front because you know so

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Speaker 2: many people I think will delight in hearing your stories,

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Speaker 2: reflecting on your career, looking back at that kind of

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Speaker 2: golden age of rugby league. Well, what was it like

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Speaker 2: seeing your son doing the thing. He's really good at

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Speaker 2: creating in that space because I don't know if you've

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Speaker 2: had opportunities to see him making films before, that.

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Speaker 3: Was sort of a place I've seen lots of I've

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Speaker 3: obviously seen all the stuff that he's done, but you know,

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Speaker 3: it's all very very good.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, it's very proud man.

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Speaker 3: And I suppose you know, like you know, you want

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Speaker 3: your children to succeed whatever, and you obviously want to

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Speaker 3: support them throughout. And you know, when Luke came to

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Speaker 3: with the idea that he wanted to do this, I

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Speaker 3: was really keen on.

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Speaker 4: I wanted him to do a story.

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Speaker 3: As he said about the seventy seven Uklands side where

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Speaker 3: we were all just turned up on a Wednesday night

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Speaker 3: and after working all day and played international sides for

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Speaker 3: three wednesdays in a row and beat them all and

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Speaker 3: you know, it was just and then went back to

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Speaker 3: work the next morning. And yeah, so I thought that

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Speaker 3: was a story, but he thought it was. This one

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Speaker 3: was better, So yeah it was.

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Speaker 4: It was. It was lovely For.

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Speaker 2: People who preps don't appreciate how much has changed. Can

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Speaker 2: you describe to us what life was like for a

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Speaker 2: rugby league player in that era?

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, you played on the weekend, Julie in

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Speaker 3: the afternoon on Saturday or Sunday, and then you went

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Speaker 3: to work on my day Tuesday, went to for you

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Speaker 3: training on Tuesday and Thursday nights and maybe Saturday morning

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Speaker 3: if you played on Sunday, and it was just an

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Speaker 3: extra thing that you had to do with life, you know.

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Speaker 3: And most careers finished after two or three years of

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Speaker 3: premier football because you didn't want to get injured because

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Speaker 3: by that stage that generally had a family and a

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Speaker 3: mortgage and you couldn't afford to be off injured.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, it was they were very short careers nowadays.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Luke. One of the things that I think adds

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Speaker 2: real richness to the to the film is the incredible

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Speaker 2: archival footage You've got. One thing that stood out to

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Speaker 2: me immediately was just how physical the game was. And

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Speaker 2: I know that might sound really obvious, but but I mean,

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Speaker 2: rugby league has always been physical, but my god, it

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Speaker 2: was like there was no there were never any penalties

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Speaker 2: for head highs, you know, just calmon assault was perfectly reasonable.

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Speaker 2: People are being concostly right and center. It was another age.

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Speaker 6: It's certainly it was, and I think we we we

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Speaker 6: hear from multiple people on both sides of the Tasman

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Speaker 6: saying comfortably, the strategy was to take out the best

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Speaker 6: opposing players, and you had to take them out any

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Speaker 6: way possible so that you had a chance of victory.

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Speaker 6: It's it's a lot safer now, and obviously it works

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Speaker 6: so much better for taking care of human humans. But

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Speaker 6: it's it was I think we we we certainly enjoyed

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Speaker 6: as an audience myself the richness and the physicalness of

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Speaker 6: that error and and and put it in your body

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Speaker 6: and everything on the line for your country.

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Speaker 2: Dear, I asked, Mark, how's your body today?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? Good, thank you? Yeah, find check well it's still

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Speaker 4: trained a bit.

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Speaker 3: I My wife's a wonderful cook and nutritionist also, and

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Speaker 3: so you know, I eat all the ripe foods and

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Speaker 3: look after myself. I player, but a golf you know.

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Speaker 3: I'm oldly. I'm sixty nine in September. In the September,

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Speaker 3: so I most probably should have a few bumps and bruises,

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Speaker 3: which I do. I've had a neck operation, I've had

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Speaker 3: a shoulder reversal, and they wanted to give me a

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Speaker 3: new knee a couple of years ago.

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Speaker 4: But I've just changed my diet completely, so it's really helped.

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Speaker 4: So I don't need the need. Oh that's good.

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Speaker 2: So here, yeah, yeah, just by changing your diet, you

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Speaker 2: haven't needed to have that operation.

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Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, so yeah, just cut out all the all

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Speaker 3: the stuff that makes your body inflammatory and yeah it's working.

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Speaker 4: Well.

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Speaker 2: Oh that's fantastic. And how do you feel looking back

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Speaker 2: at you know that that footage. I'm not sure how

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Speaker 2: much you've had an opportunity to see, but looking at

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Speaker 2: the physicality of those games back then and looking at

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Speaker 2: you as a young man taking those kind of blows.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I actually haven't seen that's well, I've seen some

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Speaker 3: parts of it, but yeah, it's just how it was.

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Speaker 3: And it wasn't just me, it was everybody, that's the thing.

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Speaker 3: And that was and before that, stay in the in

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Speaker 3: the seventies it was even harder. So as as the

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Speaker 3: the decades went by, a scott and say, a lot

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Speaker 3: less brutal, Yeah, brutal game.

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Speaker 4: So it was. It was.

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Speaker 3: It was different, very different in those days, and it

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Speaker 3: was a different sort of person. It was a different

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Speaker 3: state of mind. And you know, we weren't so much athletes,

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Speaker 3: I suppose as they are today. You know, we you

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Speaker 3: have strength and conditioning coaches, you have you know, nutritionalists,

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Speaker 3: you have people we actually help the well being and

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Speaker 3: stuff like that. It was just if you weren't tough enough,

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Speaker 3: you didn't survive.

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Speaker 4: That was how it was.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, jeez, hey, look what did you feel like you

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Speaker 2: learned about about your dad or your or your family

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Speaker 2: throughout this process?

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Speaker 6: Well, it was selfishly, I think I was trying to

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Speaker 6: learn about myself, my family and even life in that

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Speaker 6: era as well. You know, I'm a I'm a new

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Speaker 6: father myself currently, I actually have two kids. And the

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Speaker 6: film takes a little bit to make and over that

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Speaker 6: period I didn't make the cut of the film, sadly, Thomas,

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Speaker 6: so my apologies. But it was I was really looking

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Speaker 6: back in and it was a reflection of different times

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Speaker 6: for who we are humans over these as brains and

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Speaker 6: New Zealanders, and we really are brothers, you know, brothers

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Speaker 6: and brothers and sisters and as compared to the world.

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Speaker 6: And it was looking about that intergenerational parenthood and parents

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Speaker 6: and their and their children. I do obviously say fathers,

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Speaker 6: it's fathers and sons, but it is it can really

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Speaker 6: be interchange between mothers and their daughters, et cetera. It

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Speaker 6: was looking at the person that you know and the

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Speaker 6: person that I believe is my father's idol, his father,

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Speaker 6: and my my father who is my idol, and and

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Speaker 6: hopefully for my son as well. And to be honest,

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Speaker 6: I learned a lot about how close we really are

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Speaker 6: as a family.

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Speaker 2: M One other theme really stuck out to me, and

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Speaker 2: that was the role that class played and still plays

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Speaker 2: to a certain degree in rugby league. Was that something

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Speaker 2: you really tried to to get across and it really,

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Speaker 2: you know, in your dad's here in particular, it was

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Speaker 2: a real working class sport.

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Speaker 6: Well yeah, and you'd probably say it certainly has changed

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Speaker 6: in New Zealand recently, very recently as well as so

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Speaker 6: it's it's different. But and and I guess I'm coming

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Speaker 6: as I was. I was born in odahu Hu. I

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Speaker 6: didn't feel too long there. Dad got your dad went

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Speaker 6: over to Brisbane, as you to find out in the

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Speaker 6: story and played in the Brisbane Rugby League.

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Speaker 5: And and I stayed in Sydney, grew up in Sydney.

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Speaker 6: But it was I was looking at that difference between

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Speaker 6: rugby union and rugby league, and and someone who from

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Speaker 6: that era chooses certainly is a New Zealander and all

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Speaker 6: in my opinion, obviously you choose rugby league in that era,

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Speaker 6: you know, you're choosing a road which you know isn't

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Speaker 6: lined with gold and taking you to the you know,

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Speaker 6: in the ollow brick road to once in a sense,

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Speaker 6: and that kind of speaks more for it speaks for Dad,

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Speaker 6: but more for people you know.

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Speaker 5: That are from the regular community.

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Speaker 6: What they're a family, they're in it together and they

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Speaker 6: and they're choosing that path because they want to challenge themselves.

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Speaker 6: And that's something we probably don't see a lot in

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Speaker 6: this time and where we are now as people that

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Speaker 6: are actively choosing paths to challenge themselves to be better

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Speaker 6: and learn more in life.

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Speaker 5: And that's something we can look up to.

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Speaker 6: And it's really just something I really wanted to highlight

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Speaker 6: because it's it's so important to me.

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Speaker 5: Is is has been the best you can mark.

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Speaker 2: I'm thirty seven years old and I cannot remember a

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Speaker 2: time in my life when rugby league has had such

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Speaker 2: prominence and such an energy in New Zealand. It really

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Speaker 2: feels like rugby league, for whatever reason, is in a

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Speaker 2: moment at the moment, is that something that you are

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Speaker 2: conscious of.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I'm a Warrior's supporter and fan, and yeah,

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Speaker 3: I marveled some of the stories here coming out of

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Speaker 3: the speaking of my great friend Graham Lowe the other day,

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Speaker 3: and he was we're talking about this very subject. And

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Speaker 3: although I haven't seen it up place, I certainly read about,

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Speaker 3: you know, the cell out stadiums at the Warrior's home ground,

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Speaker 3: and yeah, and Rugby Union maybe being a little on

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Speaker 3: the back foot at the moment.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what do you think of that? What do you

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Speaker 2: think of the you know, especially the scendency of the

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Speaker 2: Warriors at the moment, and they're kind of the energy

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Speaker 2: behind the team.

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Speaker 4: Well, yeah, I think it's fantastic.

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Speaker 3: I think everyone of the Warriors is doing a wonderful

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Speaker 3: job obviously, And a couple of weeks ago when they

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Speaker 3: had I think, you know, nine or ten first graders

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Speaker 3: out and they brought young follows up and they still

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Speaker 3: won the game against really good opposition.

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Speaker 4: I think that this is a lot about the about

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Speaker 4: the state of the club and the game.

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Speaker 2: When you're so yeah, no, it really does. Hey, guys,

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Speaker 2: congratulations on the film. I really hope you can, you know,

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Speaker 2: enjoy the process of having it out there for the

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Speaker 2: world to watch and enjoy. And thank you so much

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Speaker 2: for giving us your time pleasure.

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Speaker 5: Thank you, Rick, Jack, thank you very much, appreciate it

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Speaker 5: so good.

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Speaker 2: That is Mark and Luke Graham. Sharko is going to

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Speaker 2: be playing at the dock Edge Festival, so it's in

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Speaker 2: christ Church right now. It's going to be in Auckland

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Speaker 2: from the third to the fourteenth of July and Wellington

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Speaker 2: of that same period the third to the fourteenth of July.

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Speaker 2: And then of course dock Edge does that amazing thing

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Speaker 2: where they have nationwide the virtual cinema as well, so

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Speaker 2: that's in the second half of July, and Sharko is

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Speaker 2: also going to be released in cinemas right across the

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Speaker 2: country in September. Here's the thing though, we'll put all

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Speaker 2: of the details up on the News Talks. He'd be

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Speaker 2: website News Talks, he'd be dot co, dot nz Forward

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Speaker 2: slash Jack is the best place to go. We will

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Speaker 2: have all the details there so you can make sure

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Speaker 2: you can go and enjoy shark as well.

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Speaker 1: For more from Saturday Morning with Jack Tame, listen live

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Speaker 1: to News Talks ed B from nine am Saturday, or

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Speaker 1: follow the podcast on iHeartRadio,