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Speaker 1: Labours. Chris Hipkins making headlines today for saying the COVID inquiry,

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Speaker 1: which is underway, the terms of reference provide a platform

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Speaker 1: for conspiracy theorists. He made these comments with me on

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Speaker 1: our Herald Now streaming breakfast show this morning.

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Speaker 2: I think that the terms of reference have been deliberately

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Speaker 2: constructed to achieve a particular outcome, particularly around are providing

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Speaker 2: a platform for those who have conspiracy theorists views.

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Speaker 1: He was noncommittal on whether he would appear before the

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Speaker 1: COVID inquiry. It comes after increasing pressure for him and

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Speaker 1: Justin to returned to do so. Internal Affairs Minister Brook

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Speaker 1: van Valden with me, Minister, good evening, Good evening, Ryan,

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Speaker 1: what did you make of those comments from the leader

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Speaker 1: of the opposition.

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Speaker 3: Oh, look, I think they're really unhelpful to be honest.

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Speaker 3: I mean, we were hearing a lot of division during

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Speaker 3: COVID about people feeling like they weren't listened to, and

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Speaker 3: the reason that the terms of reference had been expanded

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Speaker 3: by the act Party was because we did listen to

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Speaker 3: people who said that they wanted the inquiry to be

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Speaker 3: fulsome and to find the truth so that we when

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Speaker 3: we have another pandemic, we have less division and we

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Speaker 3: have a better response, and instead of having divisive rhetoric

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Speaker 3: once again up here, we should really be bringing people together.

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Speaker 3: And that's really what the Inquiry and the commissioners have done,

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Speaker 3: so that we can actually hear the truths of the

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Speaker 3: argument and we can have better recommendations for the future.

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Speaker 3: But you know, are they conspiracy theorists when you're bringing

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Speaker 3: on GPS people who are from the hospitality sector, aged

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Speaker 3: concern principles And yes there are some people who didn't

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Speaker 3: like vaccine mandates, but they have a right to their

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Speaker 3: opinion too.

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Speaker 1: He says that you guys have manufactured this, that it

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Speaker 1: doesn't include the period under which there was a coalition

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Speaker 1: between Labor and New Zealand. First, well, no.

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Speaker 3: That's not true. That's not the reason for it. You know,

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Speaker 3: we went out and asked, well, we went out and

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Speaker 3: asked New Zealanders what would you like to see in

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Speaker 3: a New TIB reference And they came back with over

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Speaker 3: thirteen thousand submissions saying lockdowns were really important, those extended lockdowns,

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Speaker 3: the vaccine mandate and efficacy and also whether or not

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Speaker 3: we've got that balance right between public health outcomes and

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Speaker 3: overall outcomes society and potoity unessan.

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Speaker 1: But we had lockdowns in twenty twenty two, So why

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Speaker 1: did we exclude it to the period after which New

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Speaker 1: Zealand First had exited the building.

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Speaker 3: Yes, so it had nothing to do with which political

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Speaker 3: parties were in power. It was to do with the

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Speaker 3: decisions that were being made and what we saw with

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Speaker 3: the decisions. Most of those decisions came through in twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty one. It's from the people who submitted into the

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Speaker 3: inquiry as to those new terms of reference. So would

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Speaker 3: it have been relevant to go back and look at

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Speaker 3: all of it? No? I didn't deem that necessary. I

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Speaker 3: looked at what were the big pain points, and especially

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Speaker 3: as the pandemic lingered on and the government kept making

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Speaker 3: more and more decisions to extend lockdowns and to have

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Speaker 3: extensions to the vaccine mandate. You program, so you're saying

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Speaker 3: the areas that we need to focus on.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely no pressure was put on you, or any minister,

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Speaker 1: or any decision maker in government, from anyone within the

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Speaker 1: New Zealand First Party to narrow the dates of this inquiry.

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Speaker 3: That's absolutely right. Ryan. Any suggestion of that fact is

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Speaker 3: not taking this inquiry. Seriously, it is incredibly important that

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Speaker 3: when governments are making decisions in the future when it

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Speaker 3: comes to the pandemic and how we deal with them,

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Speaker 3: that we are having a better response than we had

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Speaker 3: last time round. And we know that, Yes, there were

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Speaker 3: decisions made at various points in time during the pandemic,

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Speaker 3: but what became very clear is key. We want to

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Speaker 3: know when decisions were made, when information was changing and

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Speaker 3: the cod COVID pandemic was progressing. How are those decisions

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Speaker 3: being made over time?

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Speaker 1: Do you minister? Do you know which former ministers and

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Speaker 1: prime ministers have been asked to answer questions?

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Speaker 3: I don't know that, so my role is really just

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Speaker 3: to establish the inquiry and to have it.

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Speaker 1: Do you know if someone is out of the country,

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Speaker 1: if they are asked to appear and they're in the country,

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Speaker 1: they have to. If they're out of the country, they don't.

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Speaker 1: Do you know if there's any repercussion when you come

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Speaker 1: back into New Zealand or is that just sort of it.

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Speaker 3: I don't know that specific answer to that question, Ryan,

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Speaker 3: but my hope would be that everybody who was asked

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Speaker 3: to front would do so in the benefits of all

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Speaker 3: New Zealanders, and I certainly would expect that to happen.

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Speaker 1: Appreciate your time, Brook van Walden, whose Internal Affairs Minister.

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