1 00:00:05,519 --> 00:00:05,920 Speaker 1: Kielda. 2 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:09,280 Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a 3 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:11,640 Speaker 2: daily podcast presented by. 4 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: The New Zealand Herald. 5 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:20,239 Speaker 3: Consumer and Zed expects power prices to increase by about 6 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:24,400 Speaker 3: five percent this year. It's after households were already hit 7 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 3: with a twelve percent increase to power bills last year. 8 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 2: But what does that all mean? Will it make winter 9 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 2: that much colder? Will we have to cut back on groceries? 10 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:38,839 Speaker 2: Will people be able to afford the increase? Today on 11 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 2: the Front Page, Consumer and Zed's Power Switch manager Paul 12 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:46,240 Speaker 2: Fuges with us to break down why power companies pass 13 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 2: on steep network hikes and what households can do. So, 14 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 2: Paul tell me about Consumer and Zed's price predictions for power. 15 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, we believe we're going to see and increase this 16 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:05,959 Speaker 4: year of around five percent. It could be higher or 17 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:08,560 Speaker 4: lower depending on where you live, which retail you're within, 18 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:12,400 Speaker 4: which location you're in. We have seen some price notifications 19 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 4: come through from our members indicating around eight percent in 20 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 4: some cases. So yeah, but on average we're predicting around 21 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 4: five percent. And this is bad news because last year 22 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 4: twenty twenty five, we saw increases of twelve percent. So 23 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 4: this is more pain for electricity consumers. 24 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:30,960 Speaker 1: How do you kind of work out these price predictions? 25 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 4: So what we can see is through power switch we 26 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:38,080 Speaker 4: can see changes in the prices, and we get notified 27 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 4: by retailers of when price changes are imminent. But we 28 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 4: also know from notifications from lines companies and the Commerce 29 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 4: Commission of expected price rises or the regulated part of 30 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 4: the powerble that's the line's charges. 31 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 2: In terms of the line's charges, are they kind of 32 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 2: set at a price for a number of years or 33 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 2: are they inevitably always going to get higher and higher. 34 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 4: It's correct, they're set by the Communce Commission because lines 35 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 4: businesses are monopolies, so the Communist Commission runs a pretty 36 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 4: fine ruler of it over those and those prices or 37 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:15,440 Speaker 4: those price paths are set in five year periods. So 38 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 4: the current price pass was set from twenty twenty five 39 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 4: to twenty thirty, So we're now in the second year 40 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:27,440 Speaker 4: of that regulatory period, and unfortunately, lines costs have increased 41 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 4: since the last regulatory period considerably, and aos are things 42 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:32,800 Speaker 4: like you know, the interest rates, the cost of finance, 43 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 4: the cost of equipment, and the impacts of climate change. 44 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 4: So lines prices have increased considerably, and that's been reflected 45 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 4: in those regulated prices. 46 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:45,680 Speaker 2: Why are there, though, like these fixed delivery costs climbing 47 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 2: while you've got high hydro lake levels lowering wholesale prices 48 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 2: for electricity, Why can't they just balance them out a bit? 49 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 4: That is a very good question, and that's what we believe. 50 00:02:56,680 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 4: That the energy prices should be offsetting those increases in 51 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 4: lines prices because we have seen a lot of fuel 52 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 4: come into the system. It's been very wet, hydro lakes 53 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:09,519 Speaker 4: are full to the point of having to spill water now, 54 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:14,239 Speaker 4: So that should be offsetting the cost of the increase 55 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:16,919 Speaker 4: in line charges, and that's not happening. And that's due 56 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:19,240 Speaker 4: to the way that our market's working or not working, 57 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 4: as we keep saying, And that needs to be looked 58 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 4: at as to why, in a country with such a 59 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 4: predominance of renewable energy, low cost renewal energy, why our 60 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 4: prices keep climbing. 61 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 2: Well, why aren't retailers passing on those savings to customers. 62 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 1: Is it simply because they like money and they don't. 63 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 4: Have to, Well, retailers are buying market buying electricity on 64 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 4: the wholesale market, okay, and price in the wholesale market 65 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:50,560 Speaker 4: reflect the risk of what's called a dry year. So 66 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 4: New Zealand's really lucky in that we have a highly 67 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 4: renewable system sort of eighteen ninety percent renewable and as it, 68 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 4: loads are low cost, which is great. But renewed energy 69 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 4: is subject to vagaries of weather, so occasionally we get 70 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 4: what's known as a dry year, and in a dry year, 71 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 4: we don't get enough fuel for our system, mainly sort 72 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 4: of the hydro lakes don't get filled up enough, and 73 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 4: that means we get a spike in prices in a 74 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 4: dry year. So the risk of a dry year is 75 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:21,039 Speaker 4: there all the time. So even in periods we've seen 76 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:24,159 Speaker 4: to have plenty of fuel, plenty of water, the risk 77 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 4: of a dry year could occur is reflected in the 78 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:30,160 Speaker 4: price of electricity all the time, particularly in the forward markets, 79 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 4: so retailers have to buy electricity for consumption now, but 80 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 4: also they're buying hedges for the future, and that risk 81 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:39,719 Speaker 4: of a dry year, which seems to occur but the Olympics, 82 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:41,719 Speaker 4: every four years we seem to get a dry year 83 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 4: is there all the time, and so that's why even 84 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 4: when we seem to have lots of water, we're still 85 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:50,160 Speaker 4: playing high prices because of that wholesale market. 86 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:53,280 Speaker 1: Right, so it's not completely unreasonable. 87 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:56,599 Speaker 2: Then they're kind of squirreling some stuff away for a 88 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:59,159 Speaker 2: rainy day or not so rainy day rather. 89 00:04:59,279 --> 00:04:59,479 Speaker 1: Hey. 90 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:01,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's just a function of the way that our 91 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 4: market has been set up and the mechanisms have been 92 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 4: put in place. So what we've been saying for a 93 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:09,280 Speaker 4: long time is we want to change that dynamic. We 94 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 4: need to change some of those market settings if we 95 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 4: want to get the price electricity downe and we need 96 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 4: to get the price elelctricity down because it's causing real 97 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 4: harm to consumers and now the portal and New Zealand economy. 98 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:23,279 Speaker 2: Well, speaking of harm, I know that your research shows 99 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:26,159 Speaker 2: one in five kiwis went to bed early or skipped 100 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:30,159 Speaker 2: heating last winter, and nearly one in five cut food 101 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 2: or essentials to pay for bills. 102 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:35,360 Speaker 1: Could this get worse this year? 103 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:37,719 Speaker 4: Well, very much, because that was last year. When the 104 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 4: prices increase, the prices increase again, we'll see more people 105 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:45,680 Speaker 4: falling into that hardship bucket. And that's the real story here, 106 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:47,840 Speaker 4: is that you know, we've always had energy hardship, but 107 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 4: that's growing and so increasing numbers and using households are 108 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 4: struggling to pay their power bill and that will get 109 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:59,360 Speaker 4: worse and that has real consequences for social cohesion, health 110 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 4: and well being, but also the broader, the broader zill economy. 111 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 4: You know that, you know, an estimate of high endury 112 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 4: prices is costing our economy about five point two billion 113 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 4: dollars in terms of our GDP effects. So this is 114 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 4: getting really serious. You know, it's got to a point 115 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:16,359 Speaker 4: now where something needs to be done because if we 116 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:20,279 Speaker 4: keep seeing high prices, it's really going to affect households 117 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 4: even more and also a wider economy. 118 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 1: So what should be done. 119 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 2: If you had the ability to do something tomorrow without 120 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 2: any barriers, what would you do first? 121 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:32,839 Speaker 4: Well, this is a really big, big question and the 122 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 4: government has you know, you'll be aware there's been many, 123 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:39,720 Speaker 4: many reports, in many inquiries. It's a very complex thing. 124 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 4: But at its core, the ultras market isn't functioning like 125 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 4: it was supposed to and that what's what needs to 126 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:48,599 Speaker 4: be fixed. So we believe in the power of markets 127 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:52,159 Speaker 4: to consumer New Zealand. You know, a well functioning market 128 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:57,279 Speaker 4: will deliver you know, innovation, keep a lot on prices 129 00:06:57,640 --> 00:06:59,719 Speaker 4: and choice for consumers, and these are good things, but 130 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 4: these not outcomes we're seeing from the ultracity market. So 131 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 4: you know, the ultricity market came into place, you know, 132 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:09,120 Speaker 4: the retail residential ultricity market came into place about twenty 133 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 4: five years ago. So prices stay is sixty percent higher 134 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 4: than they were at the beginning of the market, So 135 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 4: something's gone wrong there. But also if you look at 136 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:23,119 Speaker 4: the other outcomes in terms of you know, consumer choice, 137 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 4: three retail brands left the market last year, so we're 138 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 4: getting less choice. Ninety percent of consumers roughly are with 139 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 4: one of the four large gent tailors or one of 140 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 4: their subsidiary brands. So it's not a market that consumers 141 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 4: are particularly interested in or engaged with or particularly working 142 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 4: for them as you'd expect. But also investment, so you know, 143 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 4: it's highly profitable. This intailers making large profits, and there's 144 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 4: nothing wrong with making profits, make that clear. It would 145 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 4: be worried if they weren't making profits. But what we're 146 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 4: concerned about is enough of those profits being reinvested into 147 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 4: new generation and we don't believe it that the investment 148 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 4: has been keeping pace, you know, to keep it lit 149 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 4: on those prices. So the market structure currently will rewards scarcity. 150 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 4: So generation is arriving a little bit late rather than 151 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 4: a little bit early all the time, and that's generating 152 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 4: really high high prices. 153 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 5: You know. 154 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 4: Another interesting statistic is, you know, eighty percent of New 155 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 4: Zealand's generation capacity was built before the market came into existence, 156 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 4: so most of our generation is actually quite quite old, 157 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:36,200 Speaker 4: and you know, and it's all working really well, and 158 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:38,200 Speaker 4: that's not a bad thing. But also that you know 159 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 4: that if you look at our our fleet of generation 160 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:47,200 Speaker 4: being highly renewable, even though the gas and the fossil 161 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:49,440 Speaker 4: fuel element and you contribute to it, twent ten percent 162 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:52,720 Speaker 4: of our generation in New Zealand, so that's you know, 163 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:58,199 Speaker 4: the large gas and coulified electricity plant, it's still set 164 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 4: the price of electricity seventeen ninety percent of the time. Okay, 165 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 4: So even though we've got a low cost renewal base, 166 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 4: you know, our prices has predominantly been set by high 167 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:10,839 Speaker 4: cost fossil fuel plant. Why is that because the way 168 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:13,720 Speaker 4: that our market has been structured to work is that 169 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 4: the way that they dispatch electricity in New Zealand and 170 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:20,679 Speaker 4: the way they set the price is the highest priced 171 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 4: generator sets the price, and gas is doing that seventy 172 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 4: ninety percent the time, and that sets the price for 173 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:31,440 Speaker 4: all generation. And so that's the mechanism that's causing these 174 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:33,840 Speaker 4: high prices. So if you really wanted to change the 175 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:36,679 Speaker 4: price of electricity, these are the sorts of things that 176 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:38,719 Speaker 4: needs to be need to be looked at. These mechanisms 177 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 4: that that clearly are delivering these high prices. 178 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:51,400 Speaker 6: In short, LNG will help keep the lights on while 179 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:56,800 Speaker 6: we build more wind, solar, hydro and geothermal. It is 180 00:09:56,840 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 6: a critical investment at a time we're declining production has 181 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:04,440 Speaker 6: forced some of our businesses to cut out, put door clothes, 182 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:09,920 Speaker 6: hooting regional economies and costing good paying jobs. Affordable and 183 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:14,679 Speaker 6: abundant energy is something that as a country we should 184 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 6: have in our basis to be able to drive our economy. 185 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:21,560 Speaker 6: And that's why we are taking this step. 186 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 2: In terms of gas though I know that the government 187 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 2: Energy Minister Simon Watts made an announcement the other day 188 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:32,199 Speaker 2: about a construction of a one billion dollar plus gas 189 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:36,280 Speaker 2: import terminal in Taranaki. Obviously it's going to take a 190 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 2: bit to build, but will that alleviate any concerns in 191 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 2: terms of price. 192 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:45,120 Speaker 4: We don't believe. So, you know, we haven't think that 193 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 4: what the government is trying to do here and alleviate 194 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 4: that dry risk I talked about, We think they're cheaper 195 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:54,120 Speaker 4: ways of doing that. We applaud them for addressing these 196 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 4: issues as a long standing issue, the dry year risk. 197 00:10:56,960 --> 00:11:01,000 Speaker 4: We don't believe LNG is the best way to address that. 198 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 4: We believe there's better alternatives than that. It's quite expensive. 199 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:08,679 Speaker 4: The government's own advice from the Frontier report was that 200 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 4: was not a great great option. Yeah, so you know, 201 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:17,560 Speaker 4: we would sort of say this is probably won't reduce 202 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:22,319 Speaker 4: the price of electricity. It's not guaranteed that it will 203 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 4: reduce the price electricity. It is guaranteed that the cost 204 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 4: of this will be worn by electricity consumers. Yeah, so 205 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:32,480 Speaker 4: we need to see more detail of how they came 206 00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:35,199 Speaker 4: to that conclusion. But we don't believe it's a good 207 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 4: thing for consumers. 208 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 1: Where would you spend that billion dollars? 209 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 2: What would be a better option, because I understand that Mercury, 210 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 2: for example, I heard the CEO they speak to have 211 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 2: the dolic Allen on her show last night on Newstalks B. 212 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 1: Why do you guys decide not to do it. 213 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 7: For us, it's really making sure that we've got multiple 214 00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:56,680 Speaker 7: solutions in place to support the resilience of the grandful 215 00:11:56,720 --> 00:11:59,440 Speaker 7: New Zealanders. And so at the time we were investigating 216 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 7: a number of those options. One of those is to 217 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:03,720 Speaker 7: keep building power plants as fast as we can, which 218 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:06,080 Speaker 7: we're doing. The other one with the Hartley firming options. 219 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 7: So for us, we felt we'd explored a number of 220 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:10,680 Speaker 7: those options and had some of them and train already. 221 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 2: But if you've got a whole bunch of people saying, look, 222 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:16,200 Speaker 2: this isn't the best option. It's going to cost you 223 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 2: about double You're better off spending your money elsewhere, it 224 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 2: will be really interesting, won't it to see into the 225 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:25,239 Speaker 2: books and see how they came to that conclusion. 226 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 4: Ultimately, Yeah, I mean, what we don't like about it 227 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:32,360 Speaker 4: is its inequitable. So it's the charges of being passed 228 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 4: on to ectricity consumers. You know, for guess it's high costs. 229 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:40,960 Speaker 4: So it's about double the cost of renewables using electricity 230 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:45,400 Speaker 4: via alien g But also you know, it messes with 231 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:48,760 Speaker 4: our energy sovereignties and we're one hundred percent you know, 232 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:52,320 Speaker 4: self generating electricity here, we don't have to import fuels 233 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 4: for electricity, and so as soon as you start doing that, 234 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 4: you're tied to the to the international price of gas. Right, 235 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:02,280 Speaker 4: So if you get wars overseas or you know, in 236 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:04,680 Speaker 4: the gas price spikes, that's going to be reflected in 237 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 4: the price of electricity here. So it's quite risky from 238 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 4: that point of view as well. So if you want 239 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 4: to spend a billion dollars, there's other things that you could 240 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:14,959 Speaker 4: have done or or can still do, that would be 241 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:17,360 Speaker 4: we believe would be would be better. You know, one 242 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:20,080 Speaker 4: of our comparative advantages yond is we are energy rich. 243 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:23,320 Speaker 4: We've got you know, we're very lucky. We've got lots 244 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 4: of potential for renewable, low cost renewable energy. That's what 245 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:29,079 Speaker 4: we should be focusing on. You know, if you look 246 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:32,080 Speaker 4: a look at something I'm a big fan of, which 247 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 4: is rooftop solar, that's really the lowest way to make, 248 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:39,760 Speaker 4: lowest cost way to make electricity at the moment. So 249 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 4: if look at my own system, the calculations I've done 250 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 4: the cost of producing me producing sol producing ectricity with 251 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 4: my own electricity system on my roof, even with financing 252 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:54,320 Speaker 4: costs between twelve and fifteen cents per kill of what hour. 253 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:57,840 Speaker 4: Now that's much lower than I'm buying it for from 254 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:01,520 Speaker 4: from the grid, right, that's low. And even better than that, 255 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 4: I'm selling it back to the grid at seventeen cents 256 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:07,000 Speaker 4: per killer what hour. So you know there's a huge 257 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:09,439 Speaker 4: potential there. So New Zealand's only got around three to 258 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:14,080 Speaker 4: four percent penetration of solar, domestic solar compared to Australia, 259 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 4: which is closer to thirty five to forty percent. Right, 260 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 4: Even places like Germany seventeen percent, Even the United States 261 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:23,680 Speaker 4: sort of sixty seven percent. Even Ireland has got more 262 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 4: solar penetration than New Zealand. So there's this really low 263 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 4: cost solution available in New Zealand and we're really well 264 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 4: suited to it. So you know, imagine we spend a billion 265 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:38,440 Speaker 4: dollars on promoting domestic solar, would have much better outcomes 266 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:42,040 Speaker 4: for consumers and much better outcomes for New Zealand's energy sovereignty. 267 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 2: Well, from memory, Australia actually offered subsidies for people to 268 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 2: get solar panels on their roofs at one stage, Hey 269 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 2: maybe a couple of decades ago there. 270 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 4: And now I mean there's lots of research into this. 271 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:56,640 Speaker 4: I'm not talking into it now, and it's a really 272 00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 4: recentating a topic that I'm really you know, I'm a 273 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 4: RepA about you know, as are others. But yeah, because 274 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 4: it is such a good thing for consumers and for 275 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 4: the environment, you know, and not least of all, it's 276 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 4: the least cost way to do it right. You can 277 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 4: actually lower your your household energy costs if you can 278 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 4: do this. So the problem is access to capital, you know, 279 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 4: you know, people being able to access the the you know, 280 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 4: the sort of ten to fifteen thousand dollars you need 281 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 4: to build a system. But it's great to see a 282 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 4: lot of banks offering interest free loans now and other 283 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:30,800 Speaker 4: schemes are being looked at. So that's that's really positive. 284 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 4: So you know, overseas they've incentivized people through through through 285 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 4: subsidies and other types of incentives. We think those should 286 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 4: be looked at here because once you get a critical mass, 287 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 4: that's when it takes off under its own steam. Right, 288 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 4: So once people are walking around the streets and they see, 289 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 4: you know, the neighbors have got solar and it becomes 290 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 4: it becomes really normalized, that's when it really takes off 291 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 4: and we haven't quite reached that threshold threshold yet. So 292 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 4: in Australia, you know, it'd be odd not to have. 293 00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 4: You know, if you walk around the neighborhoods there, it's 294 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 4: you notice the houses having got solar, whereas here it's 295 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 4: the opposite way around. It's the people solar are in 296 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:06,320 Speaker 4: the minority. As soon as you tend that it was 297 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 4: on its head, it develops its own steam and people 298 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:11,880 Speaker 4: start doing it. But it needs, we believe it needs 299 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:14,080 Speaker 4: some sort of subsidy or intervention or some sort of 300 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 4: incentive to get their critical mass going. 301 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:24,640 Speaker 6: And there is no real good reason for why New 302 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 6: Zealand has to be in this situation. A country like ours, 303 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:30,920 Speaker 6: which is blessed with incredible natural resources, should have. 304 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 5: Abundant, affordable energy. 305 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 6: The previous government's misguided decision to ban oil and gas 306 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:38,600 Speaker 6: exploration to get there with a target of one hundred 307 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:42,080 Speaker 6: percent renewable energy by twenty thirty and the Lake Onslow 308 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:44,520 Speaker 6: proposal had a chilling effect. 309 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:46,360 Speaker 5: On investment in energy projects. 310 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 6: The consequence of those decisions is that New Zealand has 311 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 6: faced major energy supply risks in recent years. A shortage 312 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:56,240 Speaker 6: of energy supply pushes up power prices for New Zealand 313 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 6: households and businesses. That of course came to bear in 314 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:02,840 Speaker 6: twenty two twenty four when New Zealand experienced a dry winter. 315 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 6: Severe shortages at that time pushed out electricity prices so 316 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:07,639 Speaker 6: high that they were. 317 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 5: Amongst the most expensive in the western world. 318 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:14,920 Speaker 2: If we bring it back to this year and what 319 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:18,720 Speaker 2: people can do, If people are worried about that extra 320 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 2: five percent increase they'll be seeing on their bills this year, 321 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:24,640 Speaker 2: what can they do? Do you do you just have 322 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 2: to shop around every twelve months. 323 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:29,240 Speaker 5: Yes, you do. 324 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:34,080 Speaker 1: It's such a store though. 325 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:36,440 Speaker 4: It is true. 326 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 1: Money can I save if I go and shop around? 327 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:41,399 Speaker 4: Between four and five hundred dollars as the answer to that. 328 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 4: So we you know, as you know, we're for twenty 329 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 4: five years consumers run Poals, which is our free, independent 330 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 4: price comparison service. We're really proud and passionate about about 331 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 4: running that service. We've just introduced ai AI bill reader 332 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 4: into that service to make it even easier for people, 333 00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:01,000 Speaker 4: and we've seen record growth last year. You know, we've 334 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:05,440 Speaker 4: seen a massive jump up and people are using our service. 335 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 4: We are over a million users last year, you know, 336 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 4: seventy five percent increase year on year and about one 337 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:15,520 Speaker 4: hundred and fifty percent increase in people switching. So you know, 338 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:18,399 Speaker 4: that's that's great that people are doing that. That is 339 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:21,399 Speaker 4: a reflection on how many households are struggling, is that 340 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 4: they are seeking to save money. The good news is 341 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 4: you can save money by changing provider or changing power plan. 342 00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 4: That the real potential for people now is to change 343 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 4: the type of plan they're on, and so i'd encourage 344 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 4: people to look at that. And that's what's called a 345 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:40,359 Speaker 4: time of use plan, and that's where the price eltricity 346 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:43,640 Speaker 4: changes throughout the day and so there's low cost periods. 347 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 4: So if you're a household that can shift you know, 348 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:49,720 Speaker 4: your ultracity consumption to low cost periods, you can save 349 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 4: you know, typically around twenty percent fairly readily. If you're 350 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:58,199 Speaker 4: an alxricity household. It's more difficult for households they are 351 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:01,040 Speaker 4: on gas, but it's still potential is still there. So 352 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:02,960 Speaker 4: in my own case, home on time reviewse plan and 353 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:06,119 Speaker 4: so I've got a rate at night which is half 354 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:09,399 Speaker 4: the price of the peak rate. So I try to 355 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 4: sort of do things like charge my ev overnight, I 356 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 4: heat my hot water overnight. 357 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 1: Vacuum at no. 358 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:19,040 Speaker 4: But the big chunks of load in your household are 359 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 4: the hot water, evs, heating things like that, so anything 360 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:25,480 Speaker 4: like that that you can move, dish washers, washing machines, things, 361 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:28,160 Speaker 4: These things are readily you can be moved to low 362 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:31,399 Speaker 4: cost periods with minimum impact on your lifestyle. So charging 363 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:33,960 Speaker 4: the EV overnight when you're sleep anyway, charging up the 364 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 4: hot water overnight for the morning showers, strategies like that. 365 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:40,440 Speaker 4: If you're playing a half price to do those large 366 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:44,119 Speaker 4: chunks of consumption, then you can make considerable savings. So 367 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:46,320 Speaker 4: look at my own household. I've got three teenage daughters 368 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:49,960 Speaker 4: go through a lot of hot water. So even though 369 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:53,880 Speaker 4: my consumption has increased, my overall household costs have been 370 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:57,320 Speaker 4: lowered because I'm doing a lot of our consumption, you know, 371 00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:00,440 Speaker 4: during these very low cost periods when a price is 372 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 4: half price, right, So there are the strategies you can employ. 373 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:04,800 Speaker 4: So what was done on power Switch is we've made 374 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 4: some investments and put filtering in so we've got a 375 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:09,320 Speaker 4: lot of information on time of use so you can 376 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 4: read read about it, and we've got some clevographics and 377 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:14,800 Speaker 4: things like that to explain to people how you can 378 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:17,919 Speaker 4: strategize to save money in terms of the time of use. 379 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:19,920 Speaker 4: And we've also put a filter on the results page 380 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:22,120 Speaker 4: so you can filter by time of use that will 381 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:24,880 Speaker 4: take you show you all those plans, all those retailers 382 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:27,800 Speaker 4: that offer time of use as an option. So yeah, 383 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:30,439 Speaker 4: it's bad for consumers in terms of prices going up, 384 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:33,920 Speaker 4: but there are some strategies that that consumers can employ 385 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:37,960 Speaker 4: to actually offset those costs. We'd rather the government than 386 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 4: others intervened. I mean, an another thing that we looked 387 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:43,159 Speaker 4: at is this is an election year and so we 388 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 4: think energy will be a really hot, hot topic issue, 389 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 4: and so at later surveying show that sixty seven percent 390 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:51,400 Speaker 4: of the Zealand consumers want the government to take action. 391 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:54,919 Speaker 4: So you know, you get sixty percent percent of the 392 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:58,360 Speaker 4: population saying that something needs to be done. Politicians will 393 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:01,679 Speaker 4: take note of that year us as you know, cross party, 394 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 4: you know, no matter what sort of were you on 395 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:07,439 Speaker 4: the political spectrum, a common problem that all consumers are 396 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:11,840 Speaker 4: seeing is around the price a bit of electricity. So yeah, 397 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:14,840 Speaker 4: something needs to be done, but people can take action 398 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:18,440 Speaker 4: in lower those lower those costs. 399 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:22,320 Speaker 2: I definitely will be checking it out. Now that you've 400 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 2: told me that it's not such a chore anymore. Thanks 401 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:27,880 Speaker 2: so much for joining us, Paul. 402 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:29,400 Speaker 4: No problem, Thank you very much. 403 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:35,960 Speaker 2: That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You 404 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:39,720 Speaker 2: can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage 405 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:43,439 Speaker 2: at enzdhrald dot co dot enz. The Front Page is 406 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:47,479 Speaker 2: hosted and produced by me Chelsea Daniels Caine. Dicky is 407 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:51,679 Speaker 2: our studio operator, Richard Martin, our producer and editor, and 408 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:55,639 Speaker 2: our executive producer is Jane Ye. Follow the Front Page 409 00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:58,680 Speaker 2: on the iHeart app or wherever you get your podcasts, 410 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:03,000 Speaker 2: and join us next time for another look beyond the headlines. 411 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:09,359 Speaker 3: M