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Speaker 1: Good afternoon. The government has announced its package to help

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Speaker 1: families feeling the pinch at the petrol pump. About one

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Speaker 1: hundred and forty thousand will receive an extra fifty dollars

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Speaker 1: a week through a boost to the inwork tax credit.

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Speaker 1: The Finance Minister nickel Will has made the announcement today.

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Speaker 1: Hei Nikola, Hi Heather. Now you have said that this

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Speaker 1: is limited to a year. Is that how long you're

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Speaker 1: expecting the price of fuel to remain elevated.

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Speaker 2: Well, actually, there are two off ramps for this policy.

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Speaker 2: It will either last for one year or until the

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Speaker 2: price of ninety one octane petrol drops below three dollars

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Speaker 2: a liter for four consecutive weeks. So if that's the case,

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Speaker 2: then we will the policy will end. But if the

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Speaker 2: price of petrol stays above three dollars a liter for

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Speaker 2: the year, then it will last for a year.

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Speaker 1: Should we, though, mentally be preparing ourselves for the possibility

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Speaker 1: that it is up there for a year.

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Speaker 2: Well, as you know, there are such a range of

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Speaker 2: scenarios being discussed internationally about how this conflict will continue

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Speaker 2: to unfold. What we do know is that regardless of

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Speaker 2: whether the conf ends tomorrow, we can anticipate disruption to

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Speaker 2: supply chains for oil and refined fuels for some time.

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Speaker 2: What that means for the price of petrol at the

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Speaker 2: pump in New Zealand is so contingent on so many questions.

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Speaker 2: We don't have definitive answers to that. Our view was

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Speaker 2: given prices could be elevated for a long time. Let's

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Speaker 2: provide a temporary policy that we can exit if petrol

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Speaker 2: prices do come down, but we can also exit if

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Speaker 2: they don't. And that's why we've set the one ye limit.

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Speaker 1: Are you surprised at the level of complaining that's coming

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Speaker 1: from people who are not getting the support now?

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Speaker 2: I completely understand that because just about every New Zealander

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Speaker 2: and every business is feeling it right now, and I

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Speaker 2: get it. Everyone wants relief. The government finds itself in

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Speaker 2: a difficult position, which is that, if for example, we

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Speaker 2: were to remove all fuel tax all fed and ruck

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Speaker 2: for a year, that would cost four billion dollars. That's

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Speaker 2: more than all of the additional spendings, almost twice all

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Speaker 2: the additional spending I've pledged we will restrict this year's

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Speaker 2: budget two and we're in a position where the country

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Speaker 2: built up massive amounts of debt during COVID. We're not

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Speaker 2: in a position to be going on a big spend up,

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Speaker 2: and in fact, if we did that, we could drive

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Speaker 2: inflation even higher, creating more pain for longer. So I'm

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Speaker 2: determined that we take a really careful, targeted response that

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Speaker 2: protects not just New zealander Is today, but actually our

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Speaker 2: economic future. And I recognize that that is tough because

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Speaker 2: a lot of people want relief, But my responsibility is

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Speaker 2: to make sure I deliver relief that won't boost overall

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Speaker 2: inflation and is sensible given the world is fragile and

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Speaker 2: we can't keep borrowing forever.

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Speaker 1: Now re Chris Hipkins's allegation that you're making a windfall

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Speaker 1: from the price of fuel going up, have you calculated

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Speaker 1: how much the government might make an extra GST?

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Speaker 2: So this is just a nonsense claim, because yes, GST

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Speaker 2: is proportionate to how much the fuel taxes. But on

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Speaker 2: the other side, people who are spending more on petrol

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Speaker 2: heather are spending less on other things, whether that's the cafe,

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Speaker 2: whether that's their retail spending, whether that's other things. So

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Speaker 2: in general, I've been advised don't be expecting that you're

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Speaker 2: going to be getting more revenue as a result of

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Speaker 2: this international crisis. In fact, the risks are to the

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Speaker 2: downside that we will be getting less tax as a

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Speaker 2: result of this crisis. So I think he's making up numbers.

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Speaker 2: I think he's making them up on the fly. And

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Speaker 2: the simple reality is this is the guy who racked

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Speaker 2: up billions of dollars of debt in response to COVID,

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Speaker 2: sprayed the money gun around and is always looking for

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Speaker 2: another excuse to do that. Well, that creates pain for everyone.

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Speaker 2: We will not be repeating that mistake.

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Speaker 1: Shane Jones has again mentioned the fact that you guys

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Speaker 1: are looking at how you might control demand for fuel,

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Speaker 1: as in getting us to consume less of it. How

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Speaker 1: far away from doing something there are we?

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Speaker 2: Well, we're quite some ways away from that because our

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Speaker 2: number one answer is let's get the supply into the country,

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Speaker 2: and we're working very hard on that. That's why you

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Speaker 2: saw us relax fuel specifications yesterday. So we're working very

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Speaker 2: hard on that. But we're being responsible. We're also saying

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Speaker 2: if we got to the point where we actually weren't

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Speaker 2: getting enough fuel into the country, we need to think

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Speaker 2: ahead to that moment and what we would do, and

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Speaker 2: what the Fuel Plan published in twenty four envisages is

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Speaker 2: that in some circumstances you would work to either voluntarily

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Speaker 2: ask people to reduce their fuel use or in an

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Speaker 2: extreme instance, you would work with fuel companies to ration

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Speaker 2: the fuel use to its most important needs. Now that's

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Speaker 2: an end step. Goal is to avoid that at all

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Speaker 2: costs because, as you know, if we were doing that,

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Speaker 2: that would harm the economy, that would harm New Zealanders.

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Speaker 2: It's not a good thing. It's not something we want

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Speaker 2: to bring on. We're taking all the other steps to

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Speaker 2: prevent that, but it's also wise and prudent for us

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Speaker 2: to plan for a worst case scenario.

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Speaker 1: Thanks very much, Nicola Willis, Finance Minister.

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