WEBVTT - Teachers day off: Improving working conditions will improve learning conditions, union says 0:00:05.320 --> 0:00:05.720 Kiyota. 0:00:05.800 --> 0:00:08.960 I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a 0:00:09.039 --> 0:00:16.520 daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. This week, 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:20.720 we'll see mass walkouts across the country as one hundred 0:00:20.960 --> 0:00:26.079 thousand teachers and medical staff go on strike this Thursday, 0:00:26.280 --> 0:00:31.640 October twenty third, eleven thousand, five hundred allied health workers 0:00:31.680 --> 0:00:34.400 will walk off the job, as well as thirty five 0:00:34.520 --> 0:00:38.600 hundred mental health and public health nurses and mental health assistants, 0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:43.639 more than thirty six thousand nurses, midwives, healthcare assistants, and 0:00:44.080 --> 0:00:48.320 four hundred nurses and healthcare assistants working for corrections. 0:00:48.680 --> 0:00:52.040 On top of all of this, in a historic first. 0:00:52.080 --> 0:00:56.920 Primary school teachers, primary Principles, school support staff and Ministry 0:00:56.960 --> 0:01:02.680 of Education specialist staff as secondary and area school teachers 0:01:02.760 --> 0:01:04.880 will all strike together. 0:01:04.760 --> 0:01:06.000 Today on the front page. 0:01:06.080 --> 0:01:10.080 PPTA President Chris Abercrombie is with us to take us 0:01:10.120 --> 0:01:14.039 through what needs to change in our education sector. 0:01:17.440 --> 0:01:20.039 So, Chris, this is a huge display. 0:01:20.120 --> 0:01:24.080 You've got primary and secondary schools, teachers and assistants all 0:01:24.160 --> 0:01:26.200 striking across the country. 0:01:26.800 --> 0:01:28.119 What has led to this. 0:01:28.680 --> 0:01:31.400 Well, it's really disappointing that it's happening at all, and 0:01:31.720 --> 0:01:34.960 it's not just teachers, as there's nurses, there's public servants, 0:01:34.720 --> 0:01:38.679 there's care workers, there's a whole range of workers really 0:01:38.720 --> 0:01:41.880 just showing their unhappiness with what's happening at the moment. 0:01:42.040 --> 0:01:45.600 What's lead for us in particular is around really our 0:01:45.640 --> 0:01:49.040 issues aren't being addressed, and we know there is significant 0:01:49.080 --> 0:01:52.040 unmet need in our secondaries, particularly our secondary schools at 0:01:52.040 --> 0:01:54.800 the moment, be it mental health needs, be a specific 0:01:54.920 --> 0:01:57.680 learning needs, being lots of other things. 0:01:57.360 --> 0:01:59.680 And we really need that need met. 0:02:00.160 --> 0:02:04.440 We've got this government introducing once in a generation curriculum 0:02:04.440 --> 0:02:06.560 and assessment change, and we need a workforce to to 0:02:06.600 --> 0:02:07.480 be able to deliver that. 0:02:07.880 --> 0:02:12.720 Is this just the worst time to introduce a curriculum change. 0:02:12.360 --> 0:02:14.840 Well, it seems to be everything all at once, you know. 0:02:14.919 --> 0:02:17.320 So we've got, you know, from the primary sector, we've 0:02:17.360 --> 0:02:21.280 got structured literacy, mass mastery. We've also got an attendance focus. 0:02:21.560 --> 0:02:25.519 Now in secondary, we're doing a new curriculum area. Junior 0:02:25.880 --> 0:02:28.920 primary schools already looking at new curriculum areas. We've got 0:02:28.919 --> 0:02:31.800 a whole new subjects coming in a secondary and then 0:02:31.840 --> 0:02:34.720 we've also got a whole new assessment on top of that, 0:02:35.040 --> 0:02:38.919 we're creating a national vocational pathways that we've never had, 0:02:39.680 --> 0:02:43.360 and a whole new system to deliver that in two years. 0:02:44.280 --> 0:02:47.280 It's a very big ask of the government to do 0:02:47.360 --> 0:02:50.240 this at the time we're having chronic teacher. 0:02:50.000 --> 0:02:52.520 Shortages and in order to get those teachers, and you've 0:02:52.520 --> 0:02:53.520 got to pay them fairly. 0:02:54.760 --> 0:02:57.360 Yeah, so terms and paying conditions. Terms and conditions are 0:02:57.400 --> 0:03:00.959 a really key part of this. And you know, it 0:03:01.080 --> 0:03:03.080 pays important and I never want to say it's not, 0:03:03.520 --> 0:03:05.639 but actually, what I'm hearing more and more from our 0:03:05.680 --> 0:03:09.200 teachers is actually the conditions. It's the issues around having 0:03:09.320 --> 0:03:13.440 enough pastoral care time, having enough professional development, having enough 0:03:13.480 --> 0:03:16.280 curriculum support. That's the things that they're actually they're talking 0:03:16.280 --> 0:03:17.919 to me about when I visit schools, and I visit 0:03:17.960 --> 0:03:20.280 schools all the time. I was in Northland this week 0:03:20.720 --> 0:03:23.400 visiting secondary schools there, and that's what they're telling me. 0:03:23.720 --> 0:03:25.680 What about people who say, oh, you get all these 0:03:25.680 --> 0:03:26.639 school holidays? 0:03:26.680 --> 0:03:29.040 Though, oh, look, it would be amazing if we did. 0:03:29.120 --> 0:03:30.800 And this is one of the funny things about it. 0:03:30.800 --> 0:03:33.440 And often the people that tell us how great our 0:03:33.520 --> 0:03:36.200 job is and how easy it is will also be 0:03:36.240 --> 0:03:37.760 the same ones that will say, oh, I can never 0:03:37.840 --> 0:03:41.600 do that though. So look, teaching is an amazing profession 0:03:41.960 --> 0:03:44.960 and there's this weird mix of flexible and inflexible time, 0:03:45.000 --> 0:03:48.760 and term breaks are often that flexible time where teachers. 0:03:48.800 --> 0:03:55.000 You know, I attended several conferences. These holidays were subject associations. 0:03:56.040 --> 0:03:59.480 Our conference was these holidays, and I know every school 0:03:59.480 --> 0:04:01.119 holidays is number of conferences. 0:04:01.520 --> 0:04:05.440 Teachers will refuse to teach certain class levels from year 0:04:05.480 --> 0:04:07.600 seven to thirteen on certain days. 0:04:08.320 --> 0:04:10.840 How disruptive is this for the kids? 0:04:12.240 --> 0:04:14.240 Well, unfortunately, it does create disruption. 0:04:15.040 --> 0:04:17.840 It is less disruptive than a full strike, and that's 0:04:17.880 --> 0:04:21.120 the reason that teachers have chosen to do this because 0:04:21.520 --> 0:04:24.320 the vast majority of students are still at school and 0:04:24.600 --> 0:04:28.479 it creates less time out of class. So most students 0:04:28.920 --> 0:04:31.000 well in the next from this weekend, next week will 0:04:31.040 --> 0:04:34.720 most likely be around two hours of our teaching time 0:04:34.800 --> 0:04:40.240 miss for each subject. So it's an attempt to lessen 0:04:40.400 --> 0:04:42.760 that disruption because we understand it's an important time. 0:04:43.200 --> 0:04:45.479 Teachers have been working hard with their students all year 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:47.279 to get them up to that point. 0:04:47.440 --> 0:04:51.120 So it is disruptive and it's disappointing that it is, 0:04:51.440 --> 0:04:58.960 but unfortunately that's what we have to do. 0:04:59.000 --> 0:05:01.080 We want to make make sure that those children who 0:05:01.080 --> 0:05:03.720 are going into exams aren't going to be missing out 0:05:03.800 --> 0:05:05.880 on the final few days that they have with their 0:05:05.880 --> 0:05:08.200 teachers before they sit their exams, will sit their mock 0:05:08.240 --> 0:05:10.720 exams which they get their derived grades from that they're 0:05:10.760 --> 0:05:14.719 in class with those teachers. And unfortunately we haven't been 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:16.280 able to get to that position. But it's not through 0:05:16.320 --> 0:05:18.600 lack of trying and good faith on our side. 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:22.479 So this is all happening in the lead up to 0:05:22.880 --> 0:05:27.320 and during INCA exams. I saw Erica Stanford actually tell 0:05:27.520 --> 0:05:31.000 Morning Report the kids need their teacher in front of 0:05:31.040 --> 0:05:33.760 them for that very last minute revision. So how do 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:37.200 you respond to public and parents' concerns about this disruption 0:05:37.400 --> 0:05:40.040 to students learning during this formative time. 0:05:40.400 --> 0:05:42.599 Well, again, I think teacher that work really hard with 0:05:42.680 --> 0:05:46.320 the students the whole year to prepare them for this. 0:05:47.240 --> 0:05:50.200 Teachers will be available outside of the industrial time to 0:05:50.240 --> 0:05:53.200 support students, and the sort of the claim that was 0:05:53.240 --> 0:05:56.880 going to disrupt exams, it's just not true. Teachers aren't 0:05:56.880 --> 0:06:00.160 allowed anywhere near the exams. Quite rightly, you can be 0:06:00.200 --> 0:06:02.520 supervising your own students and the NCAA examine. 0:06:02.600 --> 0:06:05.320 We're not even allowed in the room while the exams 0:06:05.360 --> 0:06:09.640 are taking place. So that's a bit of a red hearing. 0:06:09.800 --> 0:06:12.240 Teachers say, I've been working really hard to support their 0:06:12.279 --> 0:06:14.719 students and they will be available outside of the industrial 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:19.920 time to again support them and to help them achieve 0:06:19.920 --> 0:06:21.200 at the best of the level they can. 0:06:22.240 --> 0:06:26.400 How many more kids these days do require that extra support? 0:06:26.480 --> 0:06:28.239 Can you give me an example whectually? 0:06:28.240 --> 0:06:30.480 There's a really good example in a recent there's a 0:06:30.520 --> 0:06:34.280 survey called tell Us and it's an international survey new 0:06:34.360 --> 0:06:37.760 Zealand teachers. So a quarter of New Zealand teachers report 0:06:37.800 --> 0:06:40.800 that at least ten percent of students at their school 0:06:40.839 --> 0:06:43.920 need some sort of support, and so some of the 0:06:44.000 --> 0:06:48.200 highest in the world in that. So our teachers are saying, hey, 0:06:48.680 --> 0:06:51.800 we need support, Our students need more support. And that's 0:06:51.800 --> 0:06:54.960 for lots of reasons. We're understanding things are much better. 0:06:55.200 --> 0:06:58.080 We understand the brain much better, how it works. We're 0:06:58.120 --> 0:07:01.800 recognizing things when I was at school a long time ago, 0:07:01.880 --> 0:07:05.120 now we didn't really recognize. I think about my mother, 0:07:05.240 --> 0:07:08.479 my mother's dyslexic, but when she went to school, she 0:07:08.640 --> 0:07:10.720 was just dumb because that's what they thought back then. 0:07:11.720 --> 0:07:16.280 And so making those sort of understanding that a bit better, 0:07:16.360 --> 0:07:19.040 meaning that we're needing more and more. But also our 0:07:19.080 --> 0:07:22.920 students are in a very complex world, way more complex 0:07:22.960 --> 0:07:24.960 than when I was at school, or most people were 0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:29.760 at school in living in a world that really if 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:33.120 you're an older person you just can't understand. And so 0:07:33.360 --> 0:07:35.720 if you're not dealing with teenagers every single day, you 0:07:35.800 --> 0:07:37.320 just can't really understand the world. 0:07:37.160 --> 0:07:37.640 They're living in. 0:07:38.040 --> 0:07:40.880 Yeah, do you think that there's an increase in learning 0:07:40.920 --> 0:07:45.400 difficulties or you know, just is there just more awareness 0:07:45.480 --> 0:07:49.120 about different needs that we haven't really prioritized in the past. 0:07:49.920 --> 0:07:52.760 I think it's definitely more awareness of different needs that 0:07:52.800 --> 0:07:54.640 again that we hadn't prioritized in the past, or we're 0:07:54.640 --> 0:07:58.440 never recognized in the past. And also there's we know 0:07:58.480 --> 0:08:02.400 there's an increase in sort of anxiety issues, mental health issues, 0:08:03.280 --> 0:08:05.960 and we need to be able to support those students 0:08:06.000 --> 0:08:07.760 in the school so we can get. 0:08:07.640 --> 0:08:08.720 On with the teaching and learning. 0:08:08.760 --> 0:08:11.960 That's the really key part to this is that we 0:08:12.000 --> 0:08:14.040 need the support so that can be dealt with so 0:08:14.120 --> 0:08:16.200 the teachers can get on with the teaching and learning. 0:08:17.240 --> 0:08:20.040 I guess so when someone starts a sentence with well, 0:08:20.320 --> 0:08:21.880 back in my day, you. 0:08:21.880 --> 0:08:24.440 Must roll your eyes. You must get that all the time. 0:08:25.480 --> 0:08:28.960 Absolutely. And look, I grew up in a very small 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:32.720 rural town. You know, I had the ninety people in 0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:36.240 my hometown. I went to a two teacher, three teacher primary. 0:08:36.240 --> 0:08:39.680 I went to a very small rural secondary, and so 0:08:39.920 --> 0:08:43.000 my education was very sort of I wes sort of standard. 0:08:43.559 --> 0:08:45.880 And it's just so different to that nowadays. And I 0:08:45.920 --> 0:08:48.000 know people say, oh, it's all the same, but it's 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:51.920 really not. It's such a complex changing role now. One 0:08:51.960 --> 0:08:56.640 example I can give actually is around bullying. Actually, you know, 0:08:56.760 --> 0:08:59.280 back when I was at school, you know, and bullying happened, 0:08:59.440 --> 0:09:01.760 they didn't bring up the landline and go hello missus 0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:03.440 Abra Crombie clim please billy your son. 0:09:03.520 --> 0:09:04.640 Yeah, then you write you a letter. 0:09:05.720 --> 0:09:08.440 And now with the world it is and how connected 0:09:08.480 --> 0:09:11.000 we are, it's potentially twenty four to seven for these 0:09:11.000 --> 0:09:14.440 young people, and it's and I know it's easy for 0:09:14.520 --> 0:09:16.320 older people to say, I'll just turn off your phone 0:09:16.480 --> 0:09:21.160 or uninstall Instagram or whatever, But for these young people, 0:09:21.160 --> 0:09:24.600 that's the connection to the world, connection with their friends, 0:09:24.880 --> 0:09:27.760 and so it's really hard for us to sort of 0:09:28.040 --> 0:09:28.920 understand that world. 0:09:28.920 --> 0:09:31.199 Again, if you're not dealing with teenagers every day. It's 0:09:31.240 --> 0:09:32.760 really hard for you to understand. 0:09:33.240 --> 0:09:36.680 Well, that really leads me into my next question because 0:09:36.720 --> 0:09:40.199 it was going to be has technology improved teaching or 0:09:40.240 --> 0:09:44.120 added new pressures? But I suppose you're probably dodging AI left, 0:09:44.200 --> 0:09:45.440 right and center as well. 0:09:46.400 --> 0:09:49.360 It's a bit of both. So I think the key 0:09:49.400 --> 0:09:53.479 thing is that teachers really see technology as a tool. 0:09:53.720 --> 0:09:55.760 Is you know, like like you see anything and your 0:09:55.800 --> 0:09:59.240 talk and a certain situation, that tool is amazing and 0:09:59.280 --> 0:10:03.000 it's going to really help that teaching and that learning 0:10:03.000 --> 0:10:04.520 to take place, and other times. 0:10:04.400 --> 0:10:06.000 Is actually going to hinder it's actually going to take 0:10:06.000 --> 0:10:06.640 away from it. 0:10:07.400 --> 0:10:10.080 And so that's one of the things around the professional 0:10:10.080 --> 0:10:12.640 development teachers want is that actually we need to upscale 0:10:12.679 --> 0:10:15.840 ourselves before we can support the students because we often, 0:10:15.880 --> 0:10:19.319 and I really dislike this phrase, the students are digital 0:10:19.400 --> 0:10:22.280 natives and digital and I don't really like that because 0:10:22.640 --> 0:10:25.280 there's just as complex for them as it is for anyone. 0:10:25.320 --> 0:10:26.960 Ouse it's just then more willing to give it a go. 0:10:27.280 --> 0:10:30.040 They're more willing to have a crack at it and 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:32.760 not worry about those things that sort of you know, 0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:35.280 older people or people who are a bit more concerned 0:10:35.320 --> 0:10:38.520 about it will be. And I think some things have 0:10:38.640 --> 0:10:41.120 been really good. And I'll give props to the government 0:10:41.160 --> 0:10:44.240 for this. About the cell phone band, I know teachers 0:10:44.240 --> 0:10:46.200 were really worried about how that was actually going to work, 0:10:46.240 --> 0:10:48.439 but from all accounts i've heard, it's been really positive 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:53.280 and leading some really positive outcomes. So we can make 0:10:53.320 --> 0:10:55.480 these changes, it's just making sure we've got the. 0:10:55.440 --> 0:10:56.240 Support to do it. 0:10:56.640 --> 0:10:59.640 How's morale amongst teachers at the moment. 0:11:00.600 --> 0:11:02.680 That's a tough question to so I visit schools quite 0:11:02.720 --> 0:11:09.040 often and there describe this They because they love teaching, 0:11:09.240 --> 0:11:12.000 like they love the role, they love being in the classroom. 0:11:12.440 --> 0:11:14.120 Often I get asked, I've been out of the classroom 0:11:14.160 --> 0:11:15.920 a couple of years to take on this president role, 0:11:15.960 --> 0:11:18.720 and they're like, do you miss teaching? Absolutely, I've missed 0:11:18.720 --> 0:11:21.200 being in the classroom. I missed the teaching, but a 0:11:21.200 --> 0:11:23.800 lot of the stuff outside of it. That's that's where 0:11:23.800 --> 0:11:26.920 the issues come in, sort of the significant government change. 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:30.120 And I mentioned the Talus report. New Zealand teachers are 0:11:30.120 --> 0:11:31.840 some of the most stressed in the world, were the 0:11:31.880 --> 0:11:34.800 third most stress according to the survey, and most of 0:11:34.800 --> 0:11:38.160 that is driven by the constant change put forward by 0:11:38.200 --> 0:11:42.199 the government, and so that's putting a lot of pressure 0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:45.040 on schools on principles, I'm learning support. 0:11:44.800 --> 0:11:47.480 On all aspects of the sector. It's putting a lot 0:11:47.520 --> 0:11:48.200 of pressure on it. 0:11:48.520 --> 0:11:50.920 If we put pay and benefits to the side, just 0:11:51.000 --> 0:11:54.679 for a second, what realistically, can you give me any numbers? 0:11:54.720 --> 0:11:57.520 We need this many teacher support aids, we need this 0:11:57.679 --> 0:12:01.200 many new classrooms, we need this many new people. 0:12:02.679 --> 0:12:05.560 So we know, for instance, from the government the Ministry stats, 0:12:05.559 --> 0:12:08.680 we're five hundred and fifty secondary teachers short this year 0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:11.160 and we're five hundred short for next year, so that 0:12:11.640 --> 0:12:13.800 those are the numbers we're talking about. But when we 0:12:13.880 --> 0:12:16.680 survey principles is actually a bit higher. Its closer to 0:12:16.760 --> 0:12:19.800 thee thousand mark, because what schools are doing is they're 0:12:19.880 --> 0:12:22.120 using people to sort of cover a position. So it 0:12:22.160 --> 0:12:24.880 say I'm a history teacher, i might be teaching physics. 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:27.280 Now I'll give it a good crack, but those students 0:12:27.320 --> 0:12:28.640 aren't going to get the best deal out of me 0:12:28.679 --> 0:12:32.360 as a physics teacher. And so we think the numbers 0:12:32.400 --> 0:12:35.360 more around about one thousand short. But also we know 0:12:35.400 --> 0:12:37.840 we've got an aging workforce, and so in the next 0:12:37.920 --> 0:12:41.400 five to ten years, that number is going to significantly increase. 0:12:41.920 --> 0:12:46.840 And we also know we need significant investment into professional 0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:48.160 development to support. 0:12:47.800 --> 0:12:48.960 These changes coming through. 0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:52.080 So in the last budget, the government took sixty million 0:12:52.120 --> 0:12:55.880 dollars out of secondary and put that into some primary initiatives. 0:12:56.200 --> 0:13:00.079 So we're already down that significant resource and secondary and 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:02.120 so we really need to at least, you know, focus 0:13:02.200 --> 0:13:03.320 on getting that back up. 0:13:03.200 --> 0:13:05.440 And then the future budgets coming going forward. 0:13:06.320 --> 0:13:06.520 Yeah. 0:13:06.520 --> 0:13:10.760 I had a similar conversation with nurses and they say, look, 0:13:11.520 --> 0:13:15.320 it's better doing local work and casual work. Is it 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:19.079 the same for teachers? Is relief work actually pay better? 0:13:20.200 --> 0:13:22.559 So on a per a day rate, yes it does. 0:13:23.280 --> 0:13:26.680 You don't get the holiday paid the same, it gets 0:13:26.679 --> 0:13:29.880 included in your pacement, but in your day pay. 0:13:30.280 --> 0:13:34.920 But you can be five days a week, every day 0:13:34.960 --> 0:13:35.760 every week. 0:13:35.920 --> 0:13:39.520 Doing relief and there's a significant short Yeah, the works there, 0:13:39.559 --> 0:13:41.960 there's significant shortage, and there's lots of reasons for that. 0:13:42.559 --> 0:13:44.600 One of the big ones is actually schools are bringing 0:13:44.880 --> 0:13:48.079 people back into the workforce and the full time workforce, 0:13:48.120 --> 0:13:51.120 so they're using their relievers as full time, perimanent teachers. 0:13:51.840 --> 0:13:54.360 When using a lot of retired teachers, I visited one 0:13:54.400 --> 0:13:57.760 of my old schools last year and was still. 0:13:57.520 --> 0:13:58.520 One of my teachers there. 0:13:59.200 --> 0:14:02.560 She said, I retired, Chris, but I have to come 0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:03.880 back in because the. 0:14:03.840 --> 0:14:07.839 School needed me. And so that's a really common thing. 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:09.600 It's sort of becoming a bit of a joke called 0:14:09.640 --> 0:14:10.800 the old teacher retirement. 0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:13.520 I know a few teachers every tired four. 0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:15.720 Times now, but they keep coming back in because the 0:14:15.720 --> 0:14:23.080 school needs them. 0:14:23.440 --> 0:14:25.240 Kis are getting a bit sick of the union's going 0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:27.560 on straight action rather than actually because it's putting our 0:14:27.640 --> 0:14:29.040 kids who have missed out on a lot of school 0:14:29.480 --> 0:14:31.400 off school. We've got a lot of students about to 0:14:31.400 --> 0:14:34.200 go into exam mode. We are also a lot of patients, frankly, 0:14:34.240 --> 0:14:36.160 that are also wanting to get through the weight lesson 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:38.560 into surgeries as well, so they can get through the 0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:41.320 pain and suffering. I've got Our only ask is that 0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:44.080 we just want the youths to come around the table 0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:47.240 and negotiate. We appreciate we don't have a bottomless pit 0:14:47.280 --> 0:14:49.680 of money. We know we've got very straight and economic times. 0:14:49.720 --> 0:14:52.200 We've got to deal with that reality. But the answer 0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:54.040 is not to go into strike action and cause pain 0:14:54.040 --> 0:14:56.520 and suffering for parents and kids and patients. The answer 0:14:56.600 --> 0:14:58.920 is actually get around the table and stick with it 0:14:58.960 --> 0:15:01.000 and to go through bargaining process. 0:15:03.040 --> 0:15:06.800 How confident are you that this strike will do anything. 0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:09.320 I'm always optimistic about this. 0:15:10.400 --> 0:15:14.040 We know from previous experience, we know from lots of 0:15:14.120 --> 0:15:16.560 other conversations we've had that that these do shift the 0:15:16.600 --> 0:15:20.520 needle because it shows the government how willing we are, 0:15:20.680 --> 0:15:23.760 how important this is, that will fore go pay, that 0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:25.680 will take these chances here to. 0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:29.400 Really push for an improvement in terms of conditions. 0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:31.840 And there's an old saying, you know, teachers working conditions, 0:15:31.840 --> 0:15:34.520 of students learning conditions. So if we've got a well 0:15:34.520 --> 0:15:37.120 supported teacher workforce, then we're going to have a well 0:15:37.160 --> 0:15:41.680 supported student body our young people. And there's heaps of 0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:44.880 evidence of if you have a workforce that is dedicated 0:15:44.920 --> 0:15:47.760 and focused, you can get change. The increase in attendance, 0:15:47.800 --> 0:15:51.120 for instance, the changes in the structured literacy and numeracy 0:15:51.160 --> 0:15:53.480 that was well supported and we've seen change in that. 0:15:54.040 --> 0:15:56.120 And so if you support the teachers, they'll do the 0:15:56.160 --> 0:16:00.240 main and you've supports the schools, they'll get the job done. 0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:03.360 But when we don't have the teacher expertise, we don't 0:16:03.360 --> 0:16:05.960 have the subject specialist. When we're not getting the learning support, 0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:09.360 when our guidance counselors are under the pump supporting students 0:16:09.360 --> 0:16:11.880 with mental health issues because there's no care in the 0:16:11.880 --> 0:16:14.760 community for them, then it makes it hard to keep 0:16:14.800 --> 0:16:16.680 those successes going. 0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:18.920 Is the government willing though. 0:16:18.800 --> 0:16:21.520 Oh, look, I think they are. They keep saying they 0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:23.840 want a world class education system. Well, if you want 0:16:23.840 --> 0:16:26.040 a world class education system, you have to pay for it. 0:16:26.080 --> 0:16:29.520 You can't have that on the g And it's all 0:16:29.560 --> 0:16:32.760 about political decisions. They're as simple as that. The government 0:16:32.760 --> 0:16:35.120 just needs to make the decision to fund education, to 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:39.120 fund teachers, to fund schools. And they'll say, oh, we're 0:16:39.120 --> 0:16:41.480 doing this, we're building classrooms and we're doing this, and 0:16:41.480 --> 0:16:45.360 we're doing that. But without the workforce to fill those classrooms, 0:16:45.520 --> 0:16:48.040 without the workforce to fill those teacher aird roles or 0:16:48.080 --> 0:16:51.840 those senco roles, with those learning support roles, then there's 0:16:51.840 --> 0:16:53.920 no point in them. You need to make sure you've 0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:57.520 got your workforce there to implement your changes, the changes 0:16:57.560 --> 0:16:59.680 that you want, and then they're be abule to get 0:16:59.720 --> 0:17:01.000 the best outcomes. 0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:01.280 For the young people. 0:17:01.440 --> 0:17:03.400 Thanks for joining us, Chris, no worries. 0:17:03.560 --> 0:17:04.199 Thanks for having me. 0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:10.439 That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You 0:17:10.480 --> 0:17:14.360 can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage 0:17:14.400 --> 0:17:18.480 at enzidherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is 0:17:18.560 --> 0:17:21.960 produced by Jane Ye and Richard Martin, who is also 0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:26.639 our editor. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the Front Page 0:17:26.680 --> 0:17:30.280 on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune 0:17:30.359 --> 0:17:33.360 in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.