1 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:05,720 Speaker 1: Kiyota. 2 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:08,960 Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a 3 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:16,520 Speaker 2: daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. This week, 4 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 2: we'll see mass walkouts across the country as one hundred 5 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:26,079 Speaker 2: thousand teachers and medical staff go on strike this Thursday, 6 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:31,640 Speaker 2: October twenty third, eleven thousand, five hundred allied health workers 7 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 2: will walk off the job, as well as thirty five 8 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:38,600 Speaker 2: hundred mental health and public health nurses and mental health assistants, 9 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:43,639 Speaker 2: more than thirty six thousand nurses, midwives, healthcare assistants, and 10 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 2: four hundred nurses and healthcare assistants working for corrections. 11 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 1: On top of all of this, in a historic first. 12 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 2: Primary school teachers, primary Principles, school support staff and Ministry 13 00:00:56,960 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 2: of Education specialist staff as secondary and area school teachers 14 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 2: will all strike together. 15 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 1: Today on the front page. 16 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 2: PPTA President Chris Abercrombie is with us to take us 17 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:14,039 Speaker 2: through what needs to change in our education sector. 18 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:20,039 Speaker 1: So, Chris, this is a huge display. 19 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 2: You've got primary and secondary schools, teachers and assistants all 20 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 2: striking across the country. 21 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:28,119 Speaker 1: What has led to this. 22 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:31,400 Speaker 3: Well, it's really disappointing that it's happening at all, and 23 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:34,960 Speaker 3: it's not just teachers, as there's nurses, there's public servants, 24 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:38,679 Speaker 3: there's care workers, there's a whole range of workers really 25 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 3: just showing their unhappiness with what's happening at the moment. 26 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 3: What's lead for us in particular is around really our 27 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 3: issues aren't being addressed, and we know there is significant 28 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 3: unmet need in our secondaries, particularly our secondary schools at 29 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 3: the moment, be it mental health needs, be a specific 30 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 3: learning needs, being lots of other things. 31 00:01:57,360 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 4: And we really need that need met. 32 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 3: We've got this government introducing once in a generation curriculum 33 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 3: and assessment change, and we need a workforce to to 34 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 3: be able to deliver that. 35 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 2: Is this just the worst time to introduce a curriculum change. 36 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:14,840 Speaker 4: Well, it seems to be everything all at once, you know. 37 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 3: So we've got, you know, from the primary sector, we've 38 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 3: got structured literacy, mass mastery. We've also got an attendance focus. 39 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:25,519 Speaker 3: Now in secondary, we're doing a new curriculum area. Junior 40 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:28,920 Speaker 3: primary schools already looking at new curriculum areas. We've got 41 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:31,800 Speaker 3: a whole new subjects coming in a secondary and then 42 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 3: we've also got a whole new assessment on top of that, 43 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:38,919 Speaker 3: we're creating a national vocational pathways that we've never had, 44 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:43,360 Speaker 3: and a whole new system to deliver that in two years. 45 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 3: It's a very big ask of the government to do 46 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 3: this at the time we're having chronic teacher. 47 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 2: Shortages and in order to get those teachers, and you've 48 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:53,520 Speaker 2: got to pay them fairly. 49 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:57,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, so terms and paying conditions. Terms and conditions are 50 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:00,959 Speaker 3: a really key part of this. And you know, it 51 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:03,080 Speaker 3: pays important and I never want to say it's not, 52 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:05,639 Speaker 3: but actually, what I'm hearing more and more from our 53 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 3: teachers is actually the conditions. It's the issues around having 54 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:13,440 Speaker 3: enough pastoral care time, having enough professional development, having enough 55 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 3: curriculum support. That's the things that they're actually they're talking 56 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:17,919 Speaker 3: to me about when I visit schools, and I visit 57 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 3: schools all the time. I was in Northland this week 58 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:23,400 Speaker 3: visiting secondary schools there, and that's what they're telling me. 59 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:25,680 Speaker 2: What about people who say, oh, you get all these 60 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:26,639 Speaker 2: school holidays? 61 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 4: Though, oh, look, it would be amazing if we did. 62 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:30,800 Speaker 4: And this is one of the funny things about it. 63 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 3: And often the people that tell us how great our 64 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 3: job is and how easy it is will also be 65 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 3: the same ones that will say, oh, I can never 66 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 3: do that though. So look, teaching is an amazing profession 67 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 3: and there's this weird mix of flexible and inflexible time, 68 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 3: and term breaks are often that flexible time where teachers. 69 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 3: You know, I attended several conferences. These holidays were subject associations. 70 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 3: Our conference was these holidays, and I know every school 71 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:01,119 Speaker 3: holidays is number of conferences. 72 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 2: Teachers will refuse to teach certain class levels from year 73 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 2: seven to thirteen on certain days. 74 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:10,840 Speaker 1: How disruptive is this for the kids? 75 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 4: Well, unfortunately, it does create disruption. 76 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:17,840 Speaker 3: It is less disruptive than a full strike, and that's 77 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 3: the reason that teachers have chosen to do this because 78 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 3: the vast majority of students are still at school and 79 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:28,479 Speaker 3: it creates less time out of class. So most students 80 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 3: well in the next from this weekend, next week will 81 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:34,720 Speaker 3: most likely be around two hours of our teaching time 82 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:40,240 Speaker 3: miss for each subject. So it's an attempt to lessen 83 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 3: that disruption because we understand it's an important time. 84 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:45,479 Speaker 4: Teachers have been working hard with their students all year 85 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:47,279 Speaker 4: to get them up to that point. 86 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 3: So it is disruptive and it's disappointing that it is, 87 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 3: but unfortunately that's what we have to do. 88 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 5: We want to make make sure that those children who 89 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:03,720 Speaker 5: are going into exams aren't going to be missing out 90 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 5: on the final few days that they have with their 91 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 5: teachers before they sit their exams, will sit their mock 92 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:10,720 Speaker 5: exams which they get their derived grades from that they're 93 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:14,719 Speaker 5: in class with those teachers. And unfortunately we haven't been 94 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:16,280 Speaker 5: able to get to that position. But it's not through 95 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:18,600 Speaker 5: lack of trying and good faith on our side. 96 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:22,479 Speaker 2: So this is all happening in the lead up to 97 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 2: and during INCA exams. I saw Erica Stanford actually tell 98 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 2: Morning Report the kids need their teacher in front of 99 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:33,760 Speaker 2: them for that very last minute revision. So how do 100 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:37,200 Speaker 2: you respond to public and parents' concerns about this disruption 101 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:40,040 Speaker 2: to students learning during this formative time. 102 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:42,599 Speaker 3: Well, again, I think teacher that work really hard with 103 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 3: the students the whole year to prepare them for this. 104 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 3: Teachers will be available outside of the industrial time to 105 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 3: support students, and the sort of the claim that was 106 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 3: going to disrupt exams, it's just not true. Teachers aren't 107 00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:00,160 Speaker 3: allowed anywhere near the exams. Quite rightly, you can be 108 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 3: supervising your own students and the NCAA examine. 109 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 4: We're not even allowed in the room while the exams 110 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 4: are taking place. So that's a bit of a red hearing. 111 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 3: Teachers say, I've been working really hard to support their 112 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:14,719 Speaker 3: students and they will be available outside of the industrial 113 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:19,920 Speaker 3: time to again support them and to help them achieve 114 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:21,200 Speaker 3: at the best of the level they can. 115 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:26,400 Speaker 2: How many more kids these days do require that extra support? 116 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:28,239 Speaker 1: Can you give me an example whectually? 117 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:30,480 Speaker 3: There's a really good example in a recent there's a 118 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:34,280 Speaker 3: survey called tell Us and it's an international survey new 119 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 3: Zealand teachers. So a quarter of New Zealand teachers report 120 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:40,800 Speaker 3: that at least ten percent of students at their school 121 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:43,920 Speaker 3: need some sort of support, and so some of the 122 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 3: highest in the world in that. So our teachers are saying, hey, 123 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 3: we need support, Our students need more support. And that's 124 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 3: for lots of reasons. We're understanding things are much better. 125 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 3: We understand the brain much better, how it works. We're 126 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:01,800 Speaker 3: recognizing things when I was at school a long time ago, 127 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 3: now we didn't really recognize. I think about my mother, 128 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:08,479 Speaker 3: my mother's dyslexic, but when she went to school, she 129 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 3: was just dumb because that's what they thought back then. 130 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 3: And so making those sort of understanding that a bit better, 131 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 3: meaning that we're needing more and more. But also our 132 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 3: students are in a very complex world, way more complex 133 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 3: than when I was at school, or most people were 134 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 3: at school in living in a world that really if 135 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:33,120 Speaker 3: you're an older person you just can't understand. And so 136 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 3: if you're not dealing with teenagers every single day, you 137 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 3: just can't really understand the world. 138 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 4: They're living in. 139 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, do you think that there's an increase in learning 140 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 2: difficulties or you know, just is there just more awareness 141 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:49,120 Speaker 2: about different needs that we haven't really prioritized in the past. 142 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 3: I think it's definitely more awareness of different needs that 143 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 3: again that we hadn't prioritized in the past, or we're 144 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 3: never recognized in the past. And also there's we know 145 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 3: there's an increase in sort of anxiety issues, mental health issues, 146 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 3: and we need to be able to support those students 147 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 3: in the school so we can get. 148 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 4: On with the teaching and learning. 149 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 3: That's the really key part to this is that we 150 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 3: need the support so that can be dealt with so 151 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 3: the teachers can get on with the teaching and learning. 152 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 2: I guess so when someone starts a sentence with well, 153 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:21,880 Speaker 2: back in my day, you. 154 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 1: Must roll your eyes. You must get that all the time. 155 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 3: Absolutely. And look, I grew up in a very small 156 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:32,720 Speaker 3: rural town. You know, I had the ninety people in 157 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 3: my hometown. I went to a two teacher, three teacher primary. 158 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:39,680 Speaker 3: I went to a very small rural secondary, and so 159 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 3: my education was very sort of I wes sort of standard. 160 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 3: And it's just so different to that nowadays. And I 161 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 3: know people say, oh, it's all the same, but it's 162 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 3: really not. It's such a complex changing role now. One 163 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 3: example I can give actually is around bullying. Actually, you know, 164 00:08:56,760 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 3: back when I was at school, you know, and bullying happened, 165 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:01,760 Speaker 3: they didn't bring up the landline and go hello missus 166 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:03,440 Speaker 3: Abra Crombie clim please billy your son. 167 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, then you write you a letter. 168 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:08,440 Speaker 3: And now with the world it is and how connected 169 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 3: we are, it's potentially twenty four to seven for these 170 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:14,440 Speaker 3: young people, and it's and I know it's easy for 171 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:16,320 Speaker 3: older people to say, I'll just turn off your phone 172 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 3: or uninstall Instagram or whatever, But for these young people, 173 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 3: that's the connection to the world, connection with their friends, 174 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 3: and so it's really hard for us to sort of 175 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 3: understand that world. 176 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:31,199 Speaker 4: Again, if you're not dealing with teenagers every day. It's 177 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 4: really hard for you to understand. 178 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:36,680 Speaker 2: Well, that really leads me into my next question because 179 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:40,199 Speaker 2: it was going to be has technology improved teaching or 180 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 2: added new pressures? But I suppose you're probably dodging AI left, 181 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:45,440 Speaker 2: right and center as well. 182 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 3: It's a bit of both. So I think the key 183 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:53,479 Speaker 3: thing is that teachers really see technology as a tool. 184 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 3: Is you know, like like you see anything and your 185 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 3: talk and a certain situation, that tool is amazing and 186 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 3: it's going to really help that teaching and that learning 187 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 3: to take place, and other times. 188 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 4: Is actually going to hinder it's actually going to take 189 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 4: away from it. 190 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:10,080 Speaker 3: And so that's one of the things around the professional 191 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 3: development teachers want is that actually we need to upscale 192 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:15,840 Speaker 3: ourselves before we can support the students because we often, 193 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:19,319 Speaker 3: and I really dislike this phrase, the students are digital 194 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 3: natives and digital and I don't really like that because 195 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 3: there's just as complex for them as it is for anyone. 196 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:26,960 Speaker 4: Ouse it's just then more willing to give it a go. 197 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 3: They're more willing to have a crack at it and 198 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 3: not worry about those things that sort of you know, 199 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 3: older people or people who are a bit more concerned 200 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 3: about it will be. And I think some things have 201 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 3: been really good. And I'll give props to the government 202 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 3: for this. About the cell phone band, I know teachers 203 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:46,200 Speaker 3: were really worried about how that was actually going to work, 204 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:48,439 Speaker 3: but from all accounts i've heard, it's been really positive 205 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 3: and leading some really positive outcomes. So we can make 206 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 3: these changes, it's just making sure we've got the. 207 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:56,240 Speaker 4: Support to do it. 208 00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 1: How's morale amongst teachers at the moment. 209 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:02,680 Speaker 3: That's a tough question to so I visit schools quite 210 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 3: often and there describe this They because they love teaching, 211 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 3: like they love the role, they love being in the classroom. 212 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 3: Often I get asked, I've been out of the classroom 213 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 3: a couple of years to take on this president role, 214 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:18,720 Speaker 3: and they're like, do you miss teaching? Absolutely, I've missed 215 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:21,200 Speaker 3: being in the classroom. I missed the teaching, but a 216 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:23,800 Speaker 3: lot of the stuff outside of it. That's that's where 217 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 3: the issues come in, sort of the significant government change. 218 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 3: And I mentioned the Talus report. New Zealand teachers are 219 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:31,840 Speaker 3: some of the most stressed in the world, were the 220 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 3: third most stress according to the survey, and most of 221 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 3: that is driven by the constant change put forward by 222 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:42,199 Speaker 3: the government, and so that's putting a lot of pressure 223 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 3: on schools on principles, I'm learning support. 224 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 4: On all aspects of the sector. It's putting a lot 225 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:48,200 Speaker 4: of pressure on it. 226 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:50,920 Speaker 2: If we put pay and benefits to the side, just 227 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:54,679 Speaker 2: for a second, what realistically, can you give me any numbers? 228 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 2: We need this many teacher support aids, we need this 229 00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:01,200 Speaker 2: many new classrooms, we need this many new people. 230 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:05,560 Speaker 3: So we know, for instance, from the government the Ministry stats, 231 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:08,680 Speaker 3: we're five hundred and fifty secondary teachers short this year 232 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 3: and we're five hundred short for next year, so that 233 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 3: those are the numbers we're talking about. But when we 234 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:16,680 Speaker 3: survey principles is actually a bit higher. Its closer to 235 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 3: thee thousand mark, because what schools are doing is they're 236 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 3: using people to sort of cover a position. So it 237 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:24,880 Speaker 3: say I'm a history teacher, i might be teaching physics. 238 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 3: Now I'll give it a good crack, but those students 239 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 3: aren't going to get the best deal out of me 240 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:32,360 Speaker 3: as a physics teacher. And so we think the numbers 241 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 3: more around about one thousand short. But also we know 242 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:37,840 Speaker 3: we've got an aging workforce, and so in the next 243 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:41,400 Speaker 3: five to ten years, that number is going to significantly increase. 244 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:46,840 Speaker 3: And we also know we need significant investment into professional 245 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 3: development to support. 246 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:48,960 Speaker 4: These changes coming through. 247 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:52,080 Speaker 3: So in the last budget, the government took sixty million 248 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 3: dollars out of secondary and put that into some primary initiatives. 249 00:12:56,200 --> 00:13:00,079 Speaker 3: So we're already down that significant resource and secondary and 250 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 3: so we really need to at least, you know, focus 251 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:03,320 Speaker 3: on getting that back up. 252 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:05,440 Speaker 4: And then the future budgets coming going forward. 253 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 3: Yeah. 254 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 2: I had a similar conversation with nurses and they say, look, 255 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:15,320 Speaker 2: it's better doing local work and casual work. Is it 256 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:19,079 Speaker 2: the same for teachers? Is relief work actually pay better? 257 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:22,559 Speaker 4: So on a per a day rate, yes it does. 258 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:26,680 Speaker 3: You don't get the holiday paid the same, it gets 259 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 3: included in your pacement, but in your day pay. 260 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 4: But you can be five days a week, every day 261 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:35,760 Speaker 4: every week. 262 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 3: Doing relief and there's a significant short Yeah, the works there, 263 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:41,960 Speaker 3: there's significant shortage, and there's lots of reasons for that. 264 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:44,600 Speaker 3: One of the big ones is actually schools are bringing 265 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:48,079 Speaker 3: people back into the workforce and the full time workforce, 266 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 3: so they're using their relievers as full time, perimanent teachers. 267 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 3: When using a lot of retired teachers, I visited one 268 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 3: of my old schools last year and was still. 269 00:13:57,520 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 4: One of my teachers there. 270 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:02,560 Speaker 3: She said, I retired, Chris, but I have to come 271 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 3: back in because the. 272 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:07,839 Speaker 4: School needed me. And so that's a really common thing. 273 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:09,600 Speaker 3: It's sort of becoming a bit of a joke called 274 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 3: the old teacher retirement. 275 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:13,520 Speaker 4: I know a few teachers every tired four. 276 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:15,720 Speaker 3: Times now, but they keep coming back in because the 277 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 3: school needs them. 278 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 6: Kis are getting a bit sick of the union's going 279 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 6: on straight action rather than actually because it's putting our 280 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 6: kids who have missed out on a lot of school 281 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:31,400 Speaker 6: off school. We've got a lot of students about to 282 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 6: go into exam mode. We are also a lot of patients, frankly, 283 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 6: that are also wanting to get through the weight lesson 284 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:38,560 Speaker 6: into surgeries as well, so they can get through the 285 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:41,320 Speaker 6: pain and suffering. I've got Our only ask is that 286 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 6: we just want the youths to come around the table 287 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 6: and negotiate. We appreciate we don't have a bottomless pit 288 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 6: of money. We know we've got very straight and economic times. 289 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 6: We've got to deal with that reality. But the answer 290 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:54,040 Speaker 6: is not to go into strike action and cause pain 291 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 6: and suffering for parents and kids and patients. The answer 292 00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:58,920 Speaker 6: is actually get around the table and stick with it 293 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 6: and to go through bargaining process. 294 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:06,800 Speaker 2: How confident are you that this strike will do anything. 295 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 4: I'm always optimistic about this. 296 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:14,040 Speaker 3: We know from previous experience, we know from lots of 297 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:16,560 Speaker 3: other conversations we've had that that these do shift the 298 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 3: needle because it shows the government how willing we are, 299 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:23,760 Speaker 3: how important this is, that will fore go pay, that 300 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 3: will take these chances here to. 301 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 4: Really push for an improvement in terms of conditions. 302 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 3: And there's an old saying, you know, teachers working conditions, 303 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 3: of students learning conditions. So if we've got a well 304 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 3: supported teacher workforce, then we're going to have a well 305 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:41,680 Speaker 3: supported student body our young people. And there's heaps of 306 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 3: evidence of if you have a workforce that is dedicated 307 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 3: and focused, you can get change. The increase in attendance, 308 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 3: for instance, the changes in the structured literacy and numeracy 309 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 3: that was well supported and we've seen change in that. 310 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:56,120 Speaker 3: And so if you support the teachers, they'll do the 311 00:15:56,160 --> 00:16:00,240 Speaker 3: main and you've supports the schools, they'll get the job done. 312 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 3: But when we don't have the teacher expertise, we don't 313 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:05,960 Speaker 3: have the subject specialist. When we're not getting the learning support, 314 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 3: when our guidance counselors are under the pump supporting students 315 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:11,880 Speaker 3: with mental health issues because there's no care in the 316 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 3: community for them, then it makes it hard to keep 317 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:16,680 Speaker 3: those successes going. 318 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:18,920 Speaker 1: Is the government willing though. 319 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:21,520 Speaker 3: Oh, look, I think they are. They keep saying they 320 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 3: want a world class education system. Well, if you want 321 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 3: a world class education system, you have to pay for it. 322 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 3: You can't have that on the g And it's all 323 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 3: about political decisions. They're as simple as that. The government 324 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:35,120 Speaker 3: just needs to make the decision to fund education, to 325 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:39,120 Speaker 3: fund teachers, to fund schools. And they'll say, oh, we're 326 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:41,480 Speaker 3: doing this, we're building classrooms and we're doing this, and 327 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 3: we're doing that. But without the workforce to fill those classrooms, 328 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 3: without the workforce to fill those teacher aird roles or 329 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 3: those senco roles, with those learning support roles, then there's 330 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 3: no point in them. You need to make sure you've 331 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 3: got your workforce there to implement your changes, the changes 332 00:16:57,560 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 3: that you want, and then they're be abule to get 333 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 3: the best outcomes. 334 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 4: For the young people. 335 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, Chris, no worries. 336 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:04,199 Speaker 4: Thanks for having me. 337 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:10,439 Speaker 2: That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You 338 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:14,360 Speaker 2: can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage 339 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:18,480 Speaker 2: at enzidherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is 340 00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:21,960 Speaker 2: produced by Jane Ye and Richard Martin, who is also 341 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:26,639 Speaker 2: our editor. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the Front Page 342 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:30,280 Speaker 2: on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune 343 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:33,360 Speaker 2: in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.