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Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from news Talks It b

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Speaker 1: follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: It's time for all the attitude, all the opinion, all

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Speaker 1: the information, all the debates of the US Now the

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Speaker 1: Leyton Smith Podcast powered by news.

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Speaker 2: Talks It be Welcome to podcast three hundred for September third,

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty five. Two years ago, New Zealand has voted

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Speaker 2: for change, not just a change of government, but a

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Speaker 2: change of direction. They were promised physical discipline, economic renewal

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Speaker 2: and the productive economy. The New Zealand government has shown

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Speaker 2: that it can reform when it wants to. Now it

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Speaker 2: must also reform what matters most, the unsustainable growth in

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Speaker 2: public spending. This quote came from The Australian, published on

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Speaker 2: August twenty eight, but it was written by doctor Oliver Hartvich,

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Speaker 2: the executive director of the New Zealand Initiative, who provides

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Speaker 2: us with a very good analysis of the challenge facing

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Speaker 2: the New Zealand economy. But that's not all. We spend

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Speaker 2: the second half of this long interview discussing one of

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Speaker 2: the most extraordinary human beings of all time, Leonardo da Vinci.

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Speaker 2: Now the reason for that is explained fulsomely, and you'll

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Speaker 2: understand my enthusiasm as it as it unfolds. I can

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Speaker 2: only suggest that you don't miss it. But it provides

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Speaker 2: a greater perspective of the present, and what we need

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Speaker 2: is a renaissance of the renaissance. Now there is a

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Speaker 2: very good mail room for Podcast three hundred. We have

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Speaker 2: quite a backlog of contributions, and thank you. You'll hear

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Speaker 2: missus producer for the first time in a few weeks,

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Speaker 2: and we shall convey to you a little bit of

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Speaker 2: the holiday. Something that, something that put a dent in

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Speaker 2: things one might say, but in a moment, Doctor Oliver Hartrich,

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Speaker 2: there are essential fat nutrients that we need in our

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Speaker 2: diets as the body can't manufacture them. These are omega

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Speaker 2: three and Amega six fatty acids. Equisine is a combination

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Speaker 2: of fish oil and virgin evening primrose oil, a formula

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Speaker 2: that provides an excellent source of Omega three and Omega

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Speaker 2: six fatty acids in their naturally existing ratios. The omega

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Speaker 2: six from evening primrose oil assists the omega three fish

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Speaker 2: oil to be more effective. Equisine is a high quality

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Speaker 2: fish oil supplement enriched with evening primrose oil that works

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Speaker 2: synergistically for comprehensive health support. Source from the deep sea sardines,

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Speaker 2: Anchovisa Magril provide essential Amiga three fatty acids in their

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Speaker 2: purest form without any internal organs or toxins. Every batch

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Speaker 2: is tested for its purity before it's allowed to be sold.

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Speaker 2: Equisine supports cells to be flexible, so important to support

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Speaker 2: healthy blood flow and overall cardiovascular health. Equisine can support mood,

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Speaker 2: balance and mental clarity and focus in children, all the

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Speaker 2: way to supporting stiff joints, mental focus, brain health and

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Speaker 2: healthy eyes as we get older. Eck was in as

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Speaker 2: a premium high grade fish and evening primrose oil to

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Speaker 2: be taken in addition to a healthy diet and is

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Speaker 2: only available from pharmacies and health stores. Always read the

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Speaker 2: label and users directed and if symptoms persist, see your

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Speaker 2: healthcare professional. Farmer Broker Auckland.

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Speaker 3: Layton Smith.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Oliver Hartwich is executive director of the New Zealand Initiative.

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Speaker 2: He has been on the podcast on numerous occasions and

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Speaker 2: is his opinions are very bandable. Before joining the Initiative,

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Speaker 2: he was a research fellow at the Center for Independent

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Speaker 2: studies in Sydney. He was the chief economist at the

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Speaker 2: Policy Exchange in London and an advisor in the UK

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Speaker 2: House of Lords, which is something that I wasn't aware of.

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Speaker 2: He holds a master's degree next to the Business and

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Speaker 2: Business Administration and a PhD in law from Bochum University

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Speaker 2: in Germany. How's my German?

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Speaker 3: Pretty good?

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Speaker 2: Thank goodness for that. I was unaware of your involvement

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Speaker 2: in the House of Lords. Do you want to spend

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Speaker 2: a couple of minutes just telling us about that? Sure?

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Speaker 4: First of all, great to be with you again, Laton.

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Speaker 4: Always nice to be on your podcast. Yeah, the House

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Speaker 4: of Lords, it's got a long prehistory. I lived in

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Speaker 4: Germany at the time finished my PhD, and my fiancee

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Speaker 4: was in Australia and we had decided we wanted to

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Speaker 4: move to London as a compromise, and now I needed

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Speaker 4: a job.

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Speaker 3: I had no idea how I would get a job

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Speaker 3: in London.

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Speaker 4: I wanted to work somewhere in politics, and my old

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Speaker 4: English teacher from grammar school days, believe it or not,

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Speaker 4: suggest that I should send a letter to Lord Rph Darndorff.

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Speaker 4: He was a legend in his mid seventies. At that

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Speaker 4: time he was a German British sociologist long standing, previously

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Speaker 4: president of the London London School of Economics and now

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Speaker 4: a peer in the House of Lords. And my English

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Speaker 4: teacher said, well, just cinema letter and see whether he's

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Speaker 4: got anything for you. And I thought, well, Darhandorf of

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Speaker 4: course would just wait here for me, of course, But

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Speaker 4: to my great surprise and delight, he responded and asked

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Speaker 4: me to have tea with him in the House of Lords.

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Speaker 4: And on that vague prospect of having tea with Lord Darhandorf,

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Speaker 4: I moved to London and we did meet for tea

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Speaker 4: a few weeks later, and he helped to help me

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Speaker 4: get my first job in the Lords with one of

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Speaker 4: his peers in the Libdems, lordge the Bookshot of Seagrove Bay,

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Speaker 4: and that opened my way into British politics, and then

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Speaker 4: I worked for a politics change afterwards.

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Speaker 2: And now you find yourself and you have been here

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Speaker 2: for a number of years, I think about thirteen thirteen.

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Speaker 2: Are you had with the route that your career has followed.

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Speaker 4: Yes, very Because I run a think tank, we have

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Speaker 4: an impact on policy development in a number of areas

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Speaker 4: and that's probably all you can hope for.

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Speaker 3: As an economist.

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Speaker 4: One of my colleagues always jokes that if at the

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Speaker 4: end of your career as an economist you have delayed

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Speaker 4: a bad regulation by half a year, then it would

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Speaker 4: all have been worth it. But actually I think we've

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Speaker 4: done more than that. We can see that our ideas

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Speaker 4: are currently being applied and implemented in education policy, in

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Speaker 4: housing policy, in other areas of policy, so that has

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Speaker 4: all been very worthwhile, and I'm very happy with that.

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Speaker 2: I note that you're right somewhere that working through a

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Speaker 2: think tank is all about introducing new ideas into public debates.

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Speaker 2: Do you ever run out of new ideas?

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Speaker 4: Not so much running out of ideas. The problem is

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Speaker 4: actually that often you have great ideas, but then you

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Speaker 4: have to repeat them publicly for ten years or fifteen

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Speaker 4: years until somebody actually listens to texting orders and starts

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Speaker 4: implementing them. It's not as if you're working in things

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Speaker 4: thinking you have to come up with a new idea

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Speaker 4: every week. It's often that you have a very good

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Speaker 4: idea and then you have to battle to get that

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Speaker 4: idea through Well.

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Speaker 2: This interview is going to cover two particular areas the

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Speaker 2: second one has to do with the Leonardo da vinci

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Speaker 2: at a speech that you made in Australia just very recently.

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Speaker 2: And the other reason is the main reason that I

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Speaker 2: made contact with you last week because there I was

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Speaker 2: at the end of a five week vacation in Europe,

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Speaker 2: having paid very little attention to anything that was going

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Speaker 2: on in the world, including New Zealand, and on that

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Speaker 2: particular morning, the morning of the twenty seventh of August,

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Speaker 2: I sat up in the hotel room in Dubai and

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Speaker 2: got onto the Australian newspaper and there was a column

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Speaker 2: by you. When the numbers tell a different story to

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Speaker 2: the government's tale. Let me quote. Last week, New Zealand's

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Speaker 2: Reserve Bank, the ABBE n Z, cut into straps to

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Speaker 2: three percent. The government was quick to take the credit.

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Speaker 2: Quote taking the pressure off inflation has allowed the Reserve

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Speaker 2: Bank to lower the ocr when it needs to be adjusted.

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Speaker 2: A media release claimed quote again, the government's responsible economic

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Speaker 2: management is making a difference now. The RB and Z

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Speaker 2: saw things a little differently. Its statement pointed to subdued

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Speaker 2: domestic activity and significant spare capacity. It cut rates because

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Speaker 2: the economy is struggling and needs help not because it

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Speaker 2: is doing well. This was not the first time that

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Speaker 2: there's been a discrepancy between reality and the government's messaging.

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Speaker 2: Take the August credit rating. Unsurprisingly, ministers celebrated when Fitch

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Speaker 2: kept the kept New Zealand's double A rating well double

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Speaker 2: A plus rating, But Fitch also warned that netcore Crown

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Speaker 2: debt will hit forty six percent of GDP by twenty

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Speaker 2: seven to twenty eight, a level that would have sparked

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Speaker 2: an emergency cabinet meetings a generation ago. Now that's just

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Speaker 2: the beginning. They're your words, and at that point I

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Speaker 2: realized that you didn't appear to be too happy with

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Speaker 2: the government's progress.

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Speaker 4: Well, I'm not too happy with the government's progress on

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Speaker 4: fiscal policy, because that's what the column was about. If

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Speaker 4: you rate on now you would see that. I also

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Speaker 4: wrote it. I'm very happy with what the government's doing

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Speaker 4: in education. I think the education reforms we are getting

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Speaker 4: under Minister Stanford outstanding. I also think that Chris Bishop

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Speaker 4: is doing a wonderful job when it comes to reforming housing,

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Speaker 4: the IMA or planning regime, delivering infrastructure much faster. So

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Speaker 4: I think this is a government that can reform when

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Speaker 4: it wants to, But there is fiscal policy, and fiscal

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Speaker 4: policy is perhaps the one area where I think the

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Speaker 4: government hasn't actually done anything yet. We are in fact

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Speaker 4: spending more than we used to under Labor, have not

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Speaker 4: started tackling employment in the public service. In fact, by

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Speaker 4: some measures it might have even gone up a little bit.

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Speaker 4: We still have enormous spending on welfare, so our current

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Speaker 4: welfare numbers are higher than they were under Labor. They

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Speaker 4: are about twice the number of working age beneficiaries compared

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Speaker 4: to Australia, So we have currently about twelve percent of

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Speaker 4: the work in age population on some sort of benefit.

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Speaker 4: It used to be ten percent when Labor came into

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Speaker 4: office in twenty seventeen and it's currently about six percent

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Speaker 4: in Australia. So we haven't really achieved much there. And

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Speaker 4: I also believe that this government, in fact any government,

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Speaker 4: should really deal with the reality of an aging population,

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Speaker 4: and that means urgently tackling the retirement age. And so

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Speaker 4: when you put all of this together, I think you've

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Speaker 4: got the recipe for addressing officeal imbalances. But so far,

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Speaker 4: unfortunately in these areas we haven't seen any action from

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Speaker 4: the government and that's why I'm disappointed about the fiscal

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Speaker 4: track record, as much as I'm really happy with how

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Speaker 4: they're going on planning, housing, and education.

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Speaker 2: What it'll be right to say, as far as you're

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Speaker 2: concerned that if their physical house is not in order

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Speaker 2: and then everything else is under threat.

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Speaker 4: Yes, But what I would say is, of course that

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Speaker 4: all of these fiscal matters take a long time to materialize.

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Speaker 4: So we could keep going like this for a few years,

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Speaker 4: maybe even a couple of decades, but at some stage

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Speaker 4: the chickens will come home to rust.

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Speaker 3: And we've seen it from Treasury.

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Speaker 4: Treasury told us that our GDP per capital is on

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Speaker 4: track of you surpassing one hundred percent of GDP by

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Speaker 4: the middle of the century if we don't change our

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Speaker 4: policy settings. So we know that something big is coming

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Speaker 4: in the future. It's got a lot to do with

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Speaker 4: demographic change. Because the population gets older, that means the

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Speaker 4: population will receive more super It also means that the

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Speaker 4: population will receive and more expensive healthcare, and therefore the

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Speaker 4: sooner you tackle that the better.

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Speaker 2: When you say healthcare also gets more expensive as the

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Speaker 2: population ages, of course, you're absolutely right. What possibly, though,

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Speaker 2: can be done about it?

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Speaker 4: I'm not entirely sure what can be done about it,

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Speaker 4: but let's just take that as a given because we

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Speaker 4: know it's going to be more expensive to take care

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Speaker 4: of this aging population that requires more healthcare as well,

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Speaker 4: and then cut the spending from areas where it's much

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Speaker 4: easier to figure out a way forward. So let's start

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Speaker 4: with a public service. The public service is currently employing

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Speaker 4: around sixty three thousand people. That's full time equivalents we

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Speaker 4: used to have a public service in twenty seventeen or

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Speaker 4: forty seven thousand. If you brought the public service back

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Speaker 4: to levels where it used to be, we would save

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Speaker 4: about one point six billion dollars per year. That's a start.

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Speaker 4: Then take the retirement age. If we brought it from

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Speaker 4: sixty five to sixty seven, treasury as the main set

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Speaker 4: at the end of it, that would probably save about

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Speaker 4: point seven percent of GDP. That's about three billion dollars

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Speaker 4: now three billion plus one point six and we have

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Speaker 4: four point six billion already. And I'll take the beneficiary numbers,

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Speaker 4: and we currently spend about forty billion dollars on income transfers.

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Speaker 3: I already mentioned.

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Speaker 4: We currently have twelve percent of the work in age

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Speaker 4: population on such benefits. We used to have ten, Australia

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Speaker 4: have six. You do the mass and you can see

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Speaker 4: how much money you could save there. Once you put

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Speaker 4: all of this together, you easily get to more than

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Speaker 4: ten billion dollars of government spending that you could redirect

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Speaker 4: either towards fixing the budget deficit or actually read direct

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Speaker 4: towards the extra health expenditure that we will have once

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Speaker 4: the population gets older. So I can't tell you really

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Speaker 4: in detail how we can save on health spending. I mean,

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Speaker 4: there are certainly ways in which you can make the

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Speaker 4: healthcare system more efficient, but that's not my point. My

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Speaker 4: point is actually that we should really try to get

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Speaker 4: the budget in order in order to deal with some

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Speaker 4: of these challenges that are unavoidable. I mean, it is

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Speaker 4: unavoidable in an aging population that we will spend more

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Speaker 4: on health. It is unavoidable that we will have to

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Speaker 4: mess spend more on super if keep the system roughly

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Speaker 4: the way it is. But the very least we can

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Speaker 4: do is to increase the retirement age.

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Speaker 2: The retirement age has been under discussion by various governments

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Speaker 2: for as long as I can remember, and nothing's done.

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Speaker 2: And the reason nothing's done from My perspective is because

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Speaker 2: governments and those who make up governments lack the courage

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Speaker 2: to take it to the market, and even if the

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Speaker 2: market denies them verbally, then they lack the courage to

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Speaker 2: go ahead with it anyway. They lack the ability to

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Speaker 2: take the country and the voters with them. It's a reflection,

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Speaker 2: I think, on the standard of the quality of politicians

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Speaker 2: that we have and a reflection on the need for

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Speaker 2: politicians with greater courage.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I would agree.

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Speaker 4: I remember when I started my job here in twenty twelve,

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Speaker 4: in our first year, we had our first members retreat

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Speaker 4: and invited the then Prime Minister John and Key, and

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Speaker 4: I challenged him on the retirement age, which he had

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Speaker 4: ruled out changing. And I remember that I got something

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Speaker 4: that looked to me like a bit of a death

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Speaker 4: stay from John Key. He didn't want to touch that, obviously,

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Speaker 4: he didn't even want.

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Speaker 3: To discuss it.

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Speaker 4: We had a change, of course, towards the end of

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Speaker 4: that national government when Bi l English was Prime Minister,

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Speaker 4: and he then suggested changing the age. Of course staggered

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Speaker 4: over a long periods of time, really going into the

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Speaker 4: twenty thirties, but at least it was a change. And

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Speaker 4: by the way, previously, when John Key was Prime Minister,

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Speaker 4: it was the Labor Party that said we should actually

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Speaker 4: increase the retirement age. So at some stage both major

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Speaker 4: parties have actually toyed with the idea they should work

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Speaker 4: together on this because in the end you can only

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Speaker 4: do this in a bipartisan way because you can't actually

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Speaker 4: risk this becoming an election issue or actually being an

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Speaker 4: issue that gets overturned every three years after each change

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Speaker 4: of government. So at some stage I think both major

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Speaker 4: parties need to just look into the realities and realize

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Speaker 4: that sooner or later rather sooner, to deal with that,

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Speaker 4: and then it's better to do this in a way

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Speaker 4: that is reliable, that people know where this is going

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Speaker 4: to go, that gives some certainty for people preparing for retirement,

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Speaker 4: but that the change has to come at some stage.

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Speaker 4: I think that's clear.

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Speaker 2: So far, the total welfare bill has been learned by

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Speaker 2: twenty billion dollars in the very short time between twenty

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Speaker 2: seventeen and now. It's now forty point four billion, and

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Speaker 2: since you wrote this, it's very likely gone up more.

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Speaker 2: The previous government's promises have become the current government's liabilities,

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Speaker 2: and that's the game that gets played election in, election out,

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Speaker 2: year in year out. In your mind's eye, look at

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Speaker 2: the people who make up the political parties in the

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Speaker 2: country at the moment, which is not that different to

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Speaker 2: the norm, but I think it might be a little

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Speaker 2: worse across some sectors. And try and explain to all

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Speaker 2: of us how you could imagine that they would get

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Speaker 2: together and work on anything little in what we're discussing

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Speaker 2: when it's the opposition party that wants to change, of course,

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Speaker 2: but once they get into power it's another matter. So

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Speaker 2: it's really a game of swap seas depends on who's

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Speaker 2: in which position at any given time, and all they

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Speaker 2: do is trade places.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's much harder to imagine a cross party consensus

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Speaker 4: on well for reform. What I would say is that

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Speaker 4: the current Wealth Reform Minister, that's Louis Upson, is extremely

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Speaker 4: well prepared for her role. She had that portfolio already

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Speaker 4: under bil English, she kept the portfolio for the six

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Speaker 4: years in opposition, and she's got the portfolio again in government.

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Speaker 4: And over that whole time, we engaged a lot with

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Speaker 4: Louis Ubsin and I know that she is passionate about

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Speaker 4: the project, but it is really really hard to bring

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Speaker 4: the numbers back down, because what happened under the previous

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Speaker 4: labor government was that it became a lot easier to

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Speaker 4: be on benefits because the conditions were not checked that

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Speaker 4: much anymore. Of course, also the economy has deteriorted, and

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Speaker 4: so we have higher numbers of people on unemployment benefits

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Speaker 4: right now, and therefore the current government is facing an

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Speaker 4: uphill struggle to change the welfare system in the current circumstances.

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Speaker 4: And still I think it is vital that we get

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Speaker 4: this fixed, this problem because it is such a big

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Speaker 4: fiscal liability. You mentioned the forty billion dollars, a little

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Speaker 4: bit more now than that, But it's not just that.

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Speaker 4: It's not just a fiscal liability. I always think of

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Speaker 4: welfare really as a problem socially and for the human condition,

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Speaker 4: because people once they're out of the labor market for

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Speaker 4: long and I'm talking about people for longer than half

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Speaker 4: a year or a year, they find it really difficult

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Speaker 4: to ever get back. We know, we've got ridiculous length

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Speaker 4: really of average times on certain benefits. In some cases,

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Speaker 4: people on a benefit, once they're on the benefit for

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Speaker 4: while are there for an average of twenty years. And

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Speaker 4: this is not a physical problem. It's a social problem.

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Speaker 4: It's a moral problem, as an ethical problem, because you

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Speaker 4: basically condemn these people to a life of dependency, and

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Speaker 4: you don't want that. You want people to live their

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Speaker 4: own lives, to actually create their lives, to have a

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Speaker 4: better life, which they will never have if they stay

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Speaker 4: on benefits. To get them into some sort of work

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Speaker 4: would be much more fulfilling for them personally, and of

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Speaker 4: course it would be better for society as a whole,

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Speaker 4: because we know that a lot of problems, a lot

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Speaker 4: of social problems, aren't deeply intertwined with benefit recipients.

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Speaker 2: There is something that is upcoming in the share We

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Speaker 2: say the second segment with regard to Leonardo da Vinci,

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Speaker 2: that I mustn't forget because I think, I think it's

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Speaker 2: a very important point now if I was to ask

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Speaker 2: you and I am, when it comes to the workplace,

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Speaker 2: to the workforce, what is the main deficit that might

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Speaker 2: exist that province of this country going going ahead?

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Speaker 4: The main deficit in the long run is the state

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Speaker 4: of an education system. We discuss it on a previous podcast.

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Speaker 4: I'm really concerned about the decline and human capital. We

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Speaker 4: have an education system that for twenty perhaps thirty years

361
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Speaker 4: has been going downhill. And you can see this if

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Speaker 4: you look at our performance in international education tests like

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Speaker 4: PIS are like tym's like PURS and when you run

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Speaker 4: this for a number of years, you create a population

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Speaker 4: that is no longer as educated as it needs to

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Speaker 4: be to be productive. So that is my big concern

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Speaker 4: about our labor force. As I said, I mean, the

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Speaker 4: government is undertaking reforms right now and it won't come

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Speaker 4: a day too early, but it will take a long

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Speaker 4: time until the improvements in an education system will materialize

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Speaker 4: and materialize in a better qualified workforce. I just heard

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Speaker 4: an ambassador from a European country say to me that

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Speaker 4: that ambassador is dealing with a lot of exchange students,

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Speaker 4: secondary exchange students. They usually come to New Zealand in

375
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Speaker 4: year ten and they say that whatever they're doing in

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Speaker 4: New Zealand schools in year ten reminds them of what

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Speaker 4: they did in year seven back in Europe. So we've

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Speaker 4: got a problem there.

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Speaker 2: Well, you leapfrog ahead. I was I was thinking more

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Speaker 2: at this point, and you're not wrong, by the way,

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Speaker 2: but that'll be upcoming. In the DaVinci factor, I was

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Speaker 2: thinking more of productivity. It's been something that everybody is through,

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Speaker 2: every every politician who's been involved in the area, has

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Speaker 2: thrown around for a long time. We have a big

385
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Speaker 2: problem with productivity, and you're right. Productivity has been New

386
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Speaker 2: Zealand's Achilles Hill for decades and the decline continues. So

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Speaker 2: not only have we stuck quivered, but it keeps getting worse.

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Speaker 2: Why why can't it be addressed?

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 4: Part of the answer is human capital and we just

391
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Speaker 4: talked about that. Another part of the answer, I think

392
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Speaker 4: it's our low capital intensity. I recently looked this up

393
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Speaker 4: for a presentation. I gave it a conference, and when

394
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Speaker 4: you go back long periods of time, really into the

395
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Speaker 4: late nineteenth century, because that's for how long we've got data,

396
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Speaker 4: you can see that New Zealand at the time was

397
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Speaker 4: actually in some ways world leading when it came to

398
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Speaker 4: capital available. Per our work, I compared New Zealand to

399
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Speaker 4: a number of smaller economies like the Netherlands, Switzerland, Denmark

400
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Speaker 4: and Ireland, just to see how these smaller economies have

401
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Speaker 4: tracked over time. We had among the highest capital intensity

402
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Speaker 4: in the late nineteenth century. Now, if you go through

403
00:23:01,973 --> 00:23:04,533
Speaker 4: the twentieth century. You can see that New Zealand was

404
00:23:04,973 --> 00:23:07,213
Speaker 4: pretty much in the lead or on par at least

405
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Speaker 4: until the nineteen sixty or seventies, and then the other

406
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Speaker 4: countries deemed ahead and we went backwards. And so today

407
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Speaker 4: you look at a country like the Netherlands, for example,

408
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Speaker 4: and you can see that they have almost twice the

409
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Speaker 4: capital intensity compared to New Zealand. There are also twice

410
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Speaker 4: as productive when it comes to labor productivity, so the

411
00:23:26,013 --> 00:23:30,933
Speaker 4: amount of GDP produced per our work. And so you

412
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Speaker 4: put all of these things together and you can see

413
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Speaker 4: that we've got a massive problem in our productivity. There's

414
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Speaker 4: another way of looking at it, and as economic complexity.

415
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Speaker 4: So if you think about an economy and the menu

416
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Speaker 4: of goods and services it can produce that describes its

417
00:23:46,053 --> 00:23:49,773
Speaker 4: economic complexity. If you are very under complex economy, what

418
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Speaker 4: you produce is basically just the magricultural produce, some simple goods,

419
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Speaker 4: simple services. Once the economy gets more complex, it can

420
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Speaker 4: us everything from these simple goods to whatever it might be,

421
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Speaker 4: fusion reactors. And so unsurprisingly, the more complex and economy becomes,

422
00:24:07,613 --> 00:24:09,973
Speaker 4: the richer comes because the menu gets longer and it

423
00:24:10,013 --> 00:24:12,293
Speaker 4: can do loads of more things, and it combined factors

424
00:24:12,333 --> 00:24:15,093
Speaker 4: in different ways. When you look at the performance of

425
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Speaker 4: the New Zealand economy, what you can see is actually

426
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Speaker 4: that when it comes to economic complexity, our rank has

427
00:24:21,493 --> 00:24:25,893
Speaker 4: actually deteriorated since the nineteen nineties. Other economics have become

428
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Speaker 4: more complex and we basically stood still or went backwards.

429
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Speaker 4: That again doesn't speak for the New Zealand economy, and

430
00:24:33,053 --> 00:24:35,973
Speaker 4: so what we have seen now for decades is a

431
00:24:36,053 --> 00:24:38,373
Speaker 4: pattern where we are not very productive, where we're not

432
00:24:38,493 --> 00:24:43,253
Speaker 4: increasing our economic complexity, where we're relatively capital poor, where

433
00:24:43,333 --> 00:24:47,253
Speaker 4: we are not productive on labor productivity measures. We were

434
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Speaker 4: not very productive on something that economists called total factor productivity,

435
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Speaker 4: and unsurprisingly we are then trying to make up for

436
00:24:57,653 --> 00:24:58,213
Speaker 4: that in some way.

437
00:24:58,253 --> 00:25:01,733
Speaker 3: We're working longer hours. So by some measures we are currently.

438
00:25:01,413 --> 00:25:04,613
Speaker 4: Working between three hundred and four hundred hours more compared

439
00:25:04,613 --> 00:25:07,773
Speaker 4: to countries like Britain or the Netherlands. So we are

440
00:25:07,773 --> 00:25:09,933
Speaker 4: not very put but we don't want it poor, and

441
00:25:10,093 --> 00:25:12,653
Speaker 4: so we just work a lot harder. But that can't

442
00:25:12,693 --> 00:25:14,653
Speaker 4: be the answer, and there are limits to that, of course,

443
00:25:14,693 --> 00:25:17,053
Speaker 4: because at some stage you realize you can't actually add

444
00:25:17,093 --> 00:25:20,293
Speaker 4: another job, you can't work another one hundred hours more

445
00:25:20,293 --> 00:25:23,013
Speaker 4: because you're already working a lot. So we have to

446
00:25:23,453 --> 00:25:26,533
Speaker 4: desperately become more productive, which means dealing with all of

447
00:25:26,613 --> 00:25:30,653
Speaker 4: these various contributing factors. We need a better workforce, a

448
00:25:30,693 --> 00:25:33,053
Speaker 4: better educated workforce. We need to be more open to

449
00:25:33,173 --> 00:25:37,653
Speaker 4: capital so we can increase our capital intensity. And if

450
00:25:37,693 --> 00:25:40,253
Speaker 4: we tackle all of these different problems, then we've got

451
00:25:40,293 --> 00:25:42,773
Speaker 4: a chance of actually catching up with these other countries

452
00:25:42,813 --> 00:25:45,853
Speaker 4: that have left us behind, where once upon a time,

453
00:25:45,893 --> 00:25:47,013
Speaker 4: of course, we were in the lead.

454
00:25:47,613 --> 00:25:50,653
Speaker 2: Okay, fair enough, except for one thing. Can you point

455
00:25:50,693 --> 00:25:54,453
Speaker 2: out to me politician or politicians in this country who

456
00:25:54,653 --> 00:25:58,973
Speaker 2: have the ability to take that on board and to

457
00:25:59,093 --> 00:25:59,613
Speaker 2: install them.

458
00:26:00,733 --> 00:26:03,693
Speaker 4: Well, there are some politicians I know our thinking along

459
00:26:03,733 --> 00:26:06,653
Speaker 4: the same lines. There are certainly some former politicians who

460
00:26:06,693 --> 00:26:10,173
Speaker 4: are thinking along those lines, thinking of people like rothbrid

461
00:26:10,213 --> 00:26:13,893
Speaker 4: Shipson and Bil English who totally understand the problems. I

462
00:26:14,013 --> 00:26:17,253
Speaker 4: also know that some of the current serving politicians understand

463
00:26:17,693 --> 00:26:21,533
Speaker 4: what is at stake, not least people like Chris Bishop

464
00:26:21,573 --> 00:26:25,013
Speaker 4: and Erica Stanford. But yes, I agree with you that

465
00:26:25,133 --> 00:26:27,693
Speaker 4: we need more debates in this country on this because

466
00:26:27,693 --> 00:26:30,893
Speaker 4: I think the vast majority of waters hasn't quite understood

467
00:26:30,933 --> 00:26:31,413
Speaker 4: or predicament.

468
00:26:31,533 --> 00:26:36,653
Speaker 2: Yet somewhere you made comment on the media, and it

469
00:26:36,693 --> 00:26:38,493
Speaker 2: wouldn't be the first time. But the comment I'm talking

470
00:26:38,533 --> 00:26:42,653
Speaker 2: about is you regretted the fact that in New Zealand

471
00:26:42,813 --> 00:26:50,133
Speaker 2: there wasn't any appropriate, decent right of center conservative publication.

472
00:26:50,773 --> 00:26:54,493
Speaker 2: That is a very sad thing. As a consequence, more

473
00:26:54,533 --> 00:26:59,173
Speaker 2: and more people are are subscribing to the Spectator of

474
00:26:59,213 --> 00:27:05,493
Speaker 2: Australia to Quadrant Magazine in Australia, the two best magazines

475
00:27:05,533 --> 00:27:09,013
Speaker 2: that exist in our part of the world. The approach

476
00:27:09,133 --> 00:27:12,573
Speaker 2: to things that both you and I in the main

477
00:27:12,813 --> 00:27:16,773
Speaker 2: would agree we need to do something about. So why

478
00:27:17,053 --> 00:27:21,213
Speaker 2: is it do you think that even after there's a

479
00:27:21,253 --> 00:27:25,253
Speaker 2: bit of a disruption Now I'm declaring a little ignorance

480
00:27:26,453 --> 00:27:29,613
Speaker 2: over this because I or lack of knowledge, shall we say,

481
00:27:30,213 --> 00:27:32,373
Speaker 2: because being out of the country for five and a

482
00:27:32,373 --> 00:27:35,573
Speaker 2: half weeks or thereabouts and not paying too much attention,

483
00:27:35,693 --> 00:27:39,053
Speaker 2: I could I could get this wrong. But even the

484
00:27:39,133 --> 00:27:41,893
Speaker 2: company that I that I have worked for and with

485
00:27:42,253 --> 00:27:46,013
Speaker 2: for so long and I'm still associated with, doesn't seem

486
00:27:46,053 --> 00:27:49,133
Speaker 2: able to address it or doesn't have a desire to

487
00:27:49,253 --> 00:27:49,693
Speaker 2: address it.

488
00:27:51,093 --> 00:27:53,453
Speaker 4: What I would say about the company that you're with,

489
00:27:54,333 --> 00:27:57,973
Speaker 4: I mean it always strikes me that ends that me

490
00:27:58,853 --> 00:28:03,893
Speaker 4: has the country's most successful radio station, and that's news talk,

491
00:28:04,493 --> 00:28:09,293
Speaker 4: and the ratings are phenomenal. And at the presenters, and

492
00:28:09,373 --> 00:28:12,933
Speaker 4: you look at my Costking on the Breakfast, or you

493
00:28:12,973 --> 00:28:15,053
Speaker 4: look at Heather depresil and on the Drive program, and

494
00:28:15,213 --> 00:28:17,613
Speaker 4: you previously, of course, they have.

495
00:28:17,653 --> 00:28:20,213
Speaker 3: An audience and people like listening to them.

496
00:28:21,253 --> 00:28:23,173
Speaker 4: And I think it would be fair to say that

497
00:28:23,533 --> 00:28:26,053
Speaker 4: all of these problems are probably more right of center,

498
00:28:27,053 --> 00:28:32,133
Speaker 4: and yet the same company produces a print publication, The Herald,

499
00:28:32,253 --> 00:28:37,613
Speaker 4: which is probably more centrist, maybe center left in some ways.

500
00:28:38,573 --> 00:28:42,813
Speaker 4: And so I wonder then why the company itself doesn't

501
00:28:42,853 --> 00:28:45,693
Speaker 4: realize that it has a huge part of the market

502
00:28:45,773 --> 00:28:49,213
Speaker 4: on radio. So there are people who like listening to

503
00:28:50,053 --> 00:28:53,533
Speaker 4: opinions and voices from that side of politics, and yet

504
00:28:53,613 --> 00:28:56,893
Speaker 4: it leaves that market market relatively unserved when it comes

505
00:28:56,933 --> 00:29:00,973
Speaker 4: to print publications or online publications. They tried this what

506
00:29:01,133 --> 00:29:03,573
Speaker 4: a year ago with that B plus of course, trying

507
00:29:03,573 --> 00:29:04,973
Speaker 4: to get into digital, but I think it was a

508
00:29:05,013 --> 00:29:09,333
Speaker 4: bit of a half hearted attempt. But it just demonstrates

509
00:29:09,373 --> 00:29:11,413
Speaker 4: to me that there is a market for these views.

510
00:29:12,293 --> 00:29:15,333
Speaker 4: And then you look across all our print publications and

511
00:29:15,413 --> 00:29:19,453
Speaker 4: online publications and you wouldn't find any newspaper actually in

512
00:29:19,613 --> 00:29:22,933
Speaker 4: that field. And the other thing I would say is

513
00:29:23,173 --> 00:29:26,093
Speaker 4: when you look at other countries, it's not quite like that.

514
00:29:26,653 --> 00:29:30,173
Speaker 4: So in Australia you have the Australian as a daily newspaper.

515
00:29:30,933 --> 00:29:35,373
Speaker 4: I think sometimes the AFR place in that direction as well.

516
00:29:35,853 --> 00:29:38,173
Speaker 4: Of course you've got loads of left newspapers in Australia,

517
00:29:38,213 --> 00:29:40,413
Speaker 4: but there is a variety of papers and viewpoints.

518
00:29:41,013 --> 00:29:42,893
Speaker 3: You find the same in Germany.

519
00:29:43,053 --> 00:29:46,093
Speaker 4: You have the Frankfurt Algaminor and Developed on the right,

520
00:29:46,173 --> 00:29:48,573
Speaker 4: and then you've got the zoodeorgeat side and despite on

521
00:29:48,653 --> 00:29:51,533
Speaker 4: the left. You have exactly the same pattern in Britain.

522
00:29:51,573 --> 00:29:54,053
Speaker 4: So in practically every other country you have a variety

523
00:29:54,093 --> 00:29:57,173
Speaker 4: of newspapers across the whole political spectrum. It's just in

524
00:29:57,253 --> 00:30:02,173
Speaker 4: New Zealand where basically all our newspapers are maximum centrist

525
00:30:02,253 --> 00:30:05,733
Speaker 4: but mainly center left. And so I find this a

526
00:30:05,773 --> 00:30:08,213
Speaker 4: bit odd. Actually, I would have thought from an entrepreneur

527
00:30:08,373 --> 00:30:11,853
Speaker 4: your perspective, somebody would have actually spotted that there as

528
00:30:11,853 --> 00:30:14,053
Speaker 4: a gap in the market, because obviously this is a

529
00:30:14,653 --> 00:30:17,573
Speaker 4: segment of the market that is extremely successful when it's

530
00:30:17,613 --> 00:30:20,453
Speaker 4: served by radio. Why is it not being served in

531
00:30:20,533 --> 00:30:21,213
Speaker 4: print and digital.

532
00:30:21,933 --> 00:30:25,173
Speaker 2: I'll suggest one reason, and again I think that you

533
00:30:25,293 --> 00:30:28,013
Speaker 2: mentioned the figure, what was it, eighty one percent of

534
00:30:28,373 --> 00:30:32,933
Speaker 2: journalists in the country are left leaning. I'm surprised it's

535
00:30:33,173 --> 00:30:36,453
Speaker 2: not much higher than that, to be honest. But that

536
00:30:36,893 --> 00:30:42,333
Speaker 2: then is a result of the education system, probably more

537
00:30:42,373 --> 00:30:43,773
Speaker 2: than anything else, wouldn't you say?

538
00:30:45,733 --> 00:30:49,413
Speaker 4: It's the long march through the institutions that started in

539
00:30:49,453 --> 00:30:53,133
Speaker 4: the late nineteen sixties and that has certainly turned the

540
00:30:53,253 --> 00:30:54,253
Speaker 4: education system around.

541
00:30:54,293 --> 00:30:55,813
Speaker 3: You can also see this internationally.

542
00:30:55,933 --> 00:30:59,413
Speaker 4: You can see it, for example, in the affiliation of

543
00:30:59,933 --> 00:31:02,893
Speaker 4: US academics at their universities, where I mean it was

544
00:31:03,013 --> 00:31:09,373
Speaker 4: never a center right dominated group on campus, but there

545
00:31:09,453 --> 00:31:12,333
Speaker 4: were a few conservatives maybe thirty forty years ago, and

546
00:31:12,453 --> 00:31:16,853
Speaker 4: that's completely changed, and in some subjects you would struggle

547
00:31:16,933 --> 00:31:20,693
Speaker 4: to find any conservatives on campus anymore. So, Yes, it

548
00:31:20,853 --> 00:31:23,413
Speaker 4: is a function of the education system. The education system

549
00:31:23,493 --> 00:31:27,813
Speaker 4: produces these journalists that are sometimes behaving a little bit

550
00:31:27,853 --> 00:31:32,173
Speaker 4: more like activists, and they dominate our media discussions these days.

551
00:31:32,693 --> 00:31:34,733
Speaker 2: I just might insert this here, and I'm going to

552
00:31:34,813 --> 00:31:37,653
Speaker 2: use America as an example. Over a period of time,

553
00:31:38,213 --> 00:31:41,973
Speaker 2: there's one aspect of American television that has changed dramatically,

554
00:31:42,533 --> 00:31:46,213
Speaker 2: and that is the late night comedy shows. Every main

555
00:31:46,333 --> 00:31:50,413
Speaker 2: channel has one, so over a period of time, those

556
00:31:50,533 --> 00:31:55,773
Speaker 2: programs have what was his name, Johnny Carson. Carson, Yes,

557
00:31:56,693 --> 00:32:02,013
Speaker 2: very clever man. Never threw himself into the depths of politics,

558
00:32:02,573 --> 00:32:05,653
Speaker 2: but he was always amusing. He was clever and funny

559
00:32:05,973 --> 00:32:10,093
Speaker 2: and entertaining. After he retired, there were a couple of

560
00:32:10,173 --> 00:32:15,013
Speaker 2: others that took over, and I'm talking about on different channels,

561
00:32:15,773 --> 00:32:19,773
Speaker 2: but the number of shows kept increasing, but the talent didn't,

562
00:32:20,413 --> 00:32:22,253
Speaker 2: and the talent swung to the left, or the so

563
00:32:22,453 --> 00:32:25,333
Speaker 2: called talent swung to the left, to the point now

564
00:32:25,733 --> 00:32:28,293
Speaker 2: that one or two of them have lost their jobs.

565
00:32:28,493 --> 00:32:32,093
Speaker 2: They've been they've been sacked is the appropriate word for it.

566
00:32:32,653 --> 00:32:36,373
Speaker 2: Others have been uncovered for their corruption one way or

567
00:32:36,453 --> 00:32:41,533
Speaker 2: the other. And it seems to be getting an exposure

568
00:32:42,373 --> 00:32:47,933
Speaker 2: that is going to help change the attitude, because Fox

569
00:32:48,053 --> 00:32:52,053
Speaker 2: probably is the only one that has a program late

570
00:32:52,093 --> 00:32:58,173
Speaker 2: at night that is anything but left wing. But there

571
00:32:58,253 --> 00:33:00,533
Speaker 2: is a there is a vulgarity to it that has

572
00:33:00,653 --> 00:33:04,413
Speaker 2: crept in over a short period of time that would

573
00:33:04,453 --> 00:33:06,253
Speaker 2: turn a lot of people in this country off. Even

574
00:33:06,293 --> 00:33:09,933
Speaker 2: if they felt that they agreed with what was being said.

575
00:33:10,893 --> 00:33:13,933
Speaker 2: So what I was driving at is that we don't

576
00:33:14,013 --> 00:33:18,653
Speaker 2: have that sort of aspect of life with television programs

577
00:33:18,813 --> 00:33:23,173
Speaker 2: at all. So it comes back again probably where the

578
00:33:23,253 --> 00:33:27,133
Speaker 2: country or those in the business cannot support what you

579
00:33:27,213 --> 00:33:28,533
Speaker 2: and I are discussing and looking for.

580
00:33:29,213 --> 00:33:29,733
Speaker 3: Maybe true.

581
00:33:30,693 --> 00:33:33,093
Speaker 4: The other thing is, of course, that we also have

582
00:33:33,253 --> 00:33:37,213
Speaker 4: a lack of satire in comedy on our problems, which

583
00:33:37,293 --> 00:33:39,173
Speaker 4: is something that I really regret. And by the way,

584
00:33:39,253 --> 00:33:41,973
Speaker 4: I think that satire in comedy doesn't have to be

585
00:33:42,573 --> 00:33:45,533
Speaker 4: always from any center left viewpoint. You can definitely do

586
00:33:45,773 --> 00:33:48,253
Speaker 4: comedy from a center right point of view, yep, but

587
00:33:48,373 --> 00:33:49,293
Speaker 4: we don't often try that.

588
00:33:49,813 --> 00:33:51,453
Speaker 2: And I'd say that's absolutely correct.

589
00:33:52,053 --> 00:33:53,693
Speaker 3: By the way, do you know what the number one

590
00:33:53,773 --> 00:33:56,573
Speaker 3: best selling book in Germany is right now? Yeah? I do.

591
00:33:58,213 --> 00:34:03,253
Speaker 2: It is I'll tell you if you give me a man, Yeah,

592
00:34:05,013 --> 00:34:06,573
Speaker 2: I've got it here. So but you tell us.

593
00:34:07,213 --> 00:34:13,693
Speaker 4: Well, the author's name is Vince Ebert and the title

594
00:34:13,773 --> 00:34:17,053
Speaker 4: of his book I probably couldn't mention on your podcast.

595
00:34:19,773 --> 00:34:20,373
Speaker 3: Have you found it?

596
00:34:20,853 --> 00:34:23,933
Speaker 2: No, that's the one that you write about.

597
00:34:24,893 --> 00:34:26,973
Speaker 3: No, no, no, no, no no, that's a different book.

598
00:34:27,133 --> 00:34:29,573
Speaker 2: The one that I'm talking about is by Rene Vanbloken.

599
00:34:30,533 --> 00:34:35,773
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, no, I'm currently on the Spiegel list of

600
00:34:35,853 --> 00:34:39,613
Speaker 4: best selling books. Vince Ebert you should probably have on

601
00:34:39,733 --> 00:34:43,293
Speaker 4: your podcast at some stage. And Vince Ebert is a

602
00:34:43,933 --> 00:34:50,093
Speaker 4: classical liberal physicist who's been doing comedy from a center right,

603
00:34:50,373 --> 00:34:56,493
Speaker 4: classical liberal perspective for twenty five years. Great programs, slaughtering

604
00:34:56,813 --> 00:35:00,093
Speaker 4: all sorts of holy cows on stage, you would love it.

605
00:35:00,853 --> 00:35:03,693
Speaker 4: And he's just written this book about the state of Germany,

606
00:35:03,813 --> 00:35:06,093
Speaker 4: and it's a shot straight to number one on the

607
00:35:06,253 --> 00:35:07,413
Speaker 4: Spiegel best selling list.

608
00:35:08,973 --> 00:35:10,533
Speaker 2: So now, why do you think Why do you think

609
00:35:10,573 --> 00:35:10,933
Speaker 2: that was?

610
00:35:12,133 --> 00:35:15,893
Speaker 4: Because I think he talks about issues that are very

611
00:35:17,373 --> 00:35:20,373
Speaker 4: concerning to many Germans. I mean, Germany is in a

612
00:35:20,773 --> 00:35:24,013
Speaker 4: relatively difficult shape right now anyway. The economy is not

613
00:35:24,093 --> 00:35:28,653
Speaker 4: doing well. They had a snap election last year earlier

614
00:35:28,693 --> 00:35:30,933
Speaker 4: this year actually after the crops of the government last year.

615
00:35:31,293 --> 00:35:34,973
Speaker 4: And Germany is dealing with all sorts of different problems

616
00:35:35,893 --> 00:35:40,893
Speaker 4: and here comes a physicist comedian actually writing about them

617
00:35:40,893 --> 00:35:42,653
Speaker 4: in a way that people can understand it, and actually

618
00:35:44,173 --> 00:35:49,413
Speaker 4: writing from a science perspective on many issues like energy policy,

619
00:35:49,493 --> 00:35:55,453
Speaker 4: for example, or the whole gender theory. So very good book,

620
00:35:55,653 --> 00:35:59,053
Speaker 4: very forth right book. Outspoken and actually quite a funny

621
00:35:59,053 --> 00:36:04,533
Speaker 4: book to English. Yet no, unfortunately not. I wonder actually

622
00:36:04,533 --> 00:36:07,333
Speaker 4: whether his previous books, because he's published Coldegtry before, are

623
00:36:07,333 --> 00:36:11,053
Speaker 4: available in English. Of ever Rtnam in German. And he's funny,

624
00:36:11,133 --> 00:36:13,733
Speaker 4: he's and by the way he speaks English. Well, he

625
00:36:13,853 --> 00:36:15,933
Speaker 4: lived in New York and performed in New York for

626
00:36:16,013 --> 00:36:19,013
Speaker 4: about a year, so you should probably have him at

627
00:36:19,053 --> 00:36:19,493
Speaker 4: some stage.

628
00:36:20,133 --> 00:36:23,893
Speaker 2: Make a note, Can I suggest something else based on

629
00:36:23,973 --> 00:36:26,453
Speaker 2: what you just said? That Germany has a lot of

630
00:36:26,453 --> 00:36:29,693
Speaker 2: problems at the moment that it's dealing with. Would you

631
00:36:29,733 --> 00:36:31,893
Speaker 2: say it was in how would you How would you

632
00:36:31,973 --> 00:36:35,293
Speaker 2: put it in comparison with the problems that we're that

633
00:36:35,413 --> 00:36:40,933
Speaker 2: we have. Oh and I don't mean necessarily comparing the

634
00:36:41,053 --> 00:36:44,253
Speaker 2: problems themselves. I'm talking about the the volume.

635
00:36:45,213 --> 00:36:47,693
Speaker 4: Well, Germany and news even both have a lot of problems,

636
00:36:47,773 --> 00:36:51,133
Speaker 4: so they have also some things in common. What they

637
00:36:51,213 --> 00:36:55,053
Speaker 4: share is m MP, so they have the same electoral

638
00:36:55,133 --> 00:37:00,853
Speaker 4: system with the constant need for coalition government and compromise.

639
00:37:02,413 --> 00:37:06,133
Speaker 4: They are more similar in many ways than people would realize.

640
00:37:06,453 --> 00:37:11,573
Speaker 4: I mean Germany, for example, thought until twenty twenty two

641
00:37:11,773 --> 00:37:14,573
Speaker 4: that you probably don't really need to have a military

642
00:37:14,653 --> 00:37:18,333
Speaker 4: anymore because we live in peace times and everything is fine,

643
00:37:18,373 --> 00:37:22,213
Speaker 4: and we can enjoy your peace evident and basically get

644
00:37:22,293 --> 00:37:23,653
Speaker 4: rid of our armed forces.

645
00:37:24,653 --> 00:37:27,053
Speaker 2: At America will always save it exactly.

646
00:37:27,853 --> 00:37:29,933
Speaker 4: And New Zealand did roughly the same, I mean to

647
00:37:30,373 --> 00:37:32,373
Speaker 4: an even greater degree, you might say, I mean, at

648
00:37:32,453 --> 00:37:34,653
Speaker 4: least the Germans spent maybe one and a half percent

649
00:37:34,773 --> 00:37:38,413
Speaker 4: of GDP on defense for a long time. They just

650
00:37:38,613 --> 00:37:41,853
Speaker 4: reached two percent. New Zealand. Of course since then maybe

651
00:37:41,933 --> 00:37:45,733
Speaker 4: one percent depending on how you counted. So New Zealand

652
00:37:45,733 --> 00:37:48,693
Speaker 4: did is even more in a more extreme way. Energy

653
00:37:48,773 --> 00:37:54,853
Speaker 4: policy roughly the same. So Germany tried to be extremely virtuous,

654
00:37:55,413 --> 00:37:58,973
Speaker 4: going into all sorts of renewable policies, subsidizing them heavily,

655
00:37:59,373 --> 00:38:02,573
Speaker 4: switching off nuclear power, trying to switch off a call

656
00:38:02,613 --> 00:38:05,693
Speaker 4: as well, and got itself into a position where then

657
00:38:05,813 --> 00:38:08,493
Speaker 4: trying to bridge all of these problems and gaps with

658
00:38:09,053 --> 00:38:13,293
Speaker 4: Russian energy imports didn't work so well, especially after twenty

659
00:38:13,413 --> 00:38:18,333
Speaker 4: twenty two. New Zealand, meanwhile, yep, we are already quite

660
00:38:18,373 --> 00:38:23,613
Speaker 4: renewable because of our previous especially the Molojun governments, big

661
00:38:24,013 --> 00:38:28,533
Speaker 4: infrastructure projects and building all sorts of dams. But we

662
00:38:28,733 --> 00:38:32,773
Speaker 4: haven't actually got a reasonable energy policy in this country anymore,

663
00:38:32,773 --> 00:38:36,373
Speaker 4: which we have seen in previous years, where we regularly

664
00:38:36,493 --> 00:38:38,973
Speaker 4: run to problems when we don't have enough rain and

665
00:38:39,293 --> 00:38:43,893
Speaker 4: in winter, of course that leads to shortages. Or take

666
00:38:43,933 --> 00:38:47,333
Speaker 4: another issue. Germany likes to present itself as the kind

667
00:38:47,373 --> 00:38:49,493
Speaker 4: of a moral super champion telling the rest of the

668
00:38:49,533 --> 00:38:52,093
Speaker 4: world how they should be. So can you please learn

669
00:38:52,133 --> 00:38:54,893
Speaker 4: the lessons from our shrinking of the army and our

670
00:38:55,053 --> 00:38:59,613
Speaker 4: wonderful energy policy. Except it's free writing on others. I mean,

671
00:38:59,653 --> 00:39:01,693
Speaker 4: it's free writing, or used to be free riding on

672
00:39:01,773 --> 00:39:07,013
Speaker 4: American defense, and now free writing on other countries' energy policies.

673
00:39:07,053 --> 00:39:09,813
Speaker 4: Because whenever there's sun doesn't China and the wind doesn't blow,

674
00:39:09,893 --> 00:39:13,293
Speaker 4: Germany imports the energy from its neighbors. New Zealand has

675
00:39:13,333 --> 00:39:16,173
Speaker 4: a similar kind of complex when it comes to moral posturing.

676
00:39:16,373 --> 00:39:18,173
Speaker 4: I mean, for a long time we've been trying to

677
00:39:18,213 --> 00:39:21,053
Speaker 4: explain to Australians how they should deal with China, because

678
00:39:21,093 --> 00:39:21,973
Speaker 4: we are doing it so well.

679
00:39:22,013 --> 00:39:23,613
Speaker 3: Apparently we've got.

680
00:39:23,493 --> 00:39:27,013
Speaker 4: A wonderful free trade agreement with China and our trade

681
00:39:27,093 --> 00:39:29,253
Speaker 4: is going up and up, and we found it necessary

682
00:39:29,333 --> 00:39:31,613
Speaker 4: to let the Australians know that they should learn a

683
00:39:31,773 --> 00:39:34,853
Speaker 4: bit or two, a thing or two from us about that.

684
00:39:35,493 --> 00:39:39,453
Speaker 4: So these two countries actually have a lot in common

685
00:39:39,613 --> 00:39:43,693
Speaker 4: in some ways. And also this economic reliance on just

686
00:39:43,893 --> 00:39:47,293
Speaker 4: one particular country in New Zealan's case, obviously China. In

687
00:39:47,373 --> 00:39:50,013
Speaker 4: Germany's case, it was the reliance on Russia for energy,

688
00:39:50,133 --> 00:39:54,693
Speaker 4: for cheap energy, and on China for exports. So when

689
00:39:54,733 --> 00:39:57,453
Speaker 4: I look at the problems, actually there are structural problems

690
00:39:57,493 --> 00:40:02,493
Speaker 4: that both countries have, and in some ways they're even linked.

691
00:40:03,293 --> 00:40:08,773
Speaker 2: I had a much simpler approach to the question that

692
00:40:08,853 --> 00:40:11,293
Speaker 2: I asked you. Each now has to live with the

693
00:40:11,373 --> 00:40:16,293
Speaker 2: result of a previous country leader Angela Merkel and just

694
00:40:16,373 --> 00:40:19,853
Speaker 2: Sinda Redern, and both of those both of those individuals

695
00:40:20,053 --> 00:40:24,093
Speaker 2: left the country in a state of wreckage, and that itself,

696
00:40:24,173 --> 00:40:25,853
Speaker 2: of course didn't found out to all the things that

697
00:40:25,973 --> 00:40:29,693
Speaker 2: you just said. But the anchor to the answer was

698
00:40:29,893 --> 00:40:32,413
Speaker 2: those two people. Would you argue with me?

699
00:40:33,093 --> 00:40:36,773
Speaker 4: I'm generally not a great fan of personalizing issues too much.

700
00:40:36,933 --> 00:40:40,053
Speaker 4: I much prefer to talk about policy then about people.

701
00:40:40,893 --> 00:40:42,893
Speaker 4: But it is hard to disagree that the two people

702
00:40:42,973 --> 00:40:45,533
Speaker 4: you mentioned had an enormous influence on policy.

703
00:40:46,653 --> 00:40:47,173
Speaker 3: These days.

704
00:40:47,573 --> 00:40:51,173
Speaker 4: It is the tenth anniversary of Angela Marcus's famous statement

705
00:40:51,333 --> 00:40:55,013
Speaker 4: during the refugee crisis of twenty fifteen, we shoftened us.

706
00:40:55,253 --> 00:40:58,453
Speaker 4: We'll go on with it when it's now clear after

707
00:40:58,533 --> 00:41:02,253
Speaker 4: ten years that Germany didn't quite manage to deal with

708
00:41:02,733 --> 00:41:05,853
Speaker 4: integrating one and a half million refugees in a proper way,

709
00:41:06,773 --> 00:41:09,253
Speaker 4: and Germany is still paying the price for that in

710
00:41:09,933 --> 00:41:12,853
Speaker 4: multiple ways. I mean, we can talk about the effect

711
00:41:12,933 --> 00:41:17,333
Speaker 4: of that migration wave on crime, the enormous costs associated

712
00:41:17,413 --> 00:41:21,573
Speaker 4: with that, and so you're right that her policy, which

713
00:41:21,733 --> 00:41:24,413
Speaker 4: was a policy she didn't actually have a parliamentary majority

714
00:41:24,493 --> 00:41:28,173
Speaker 4: for she just announced it on her own, is still

715
00:41:28,453 --> 00:41:32,613
Speaker 4: costing Germany quite dearly. And when it comes to cinder

716
00:41:32,653 --> 00:41:35,973
Speaker 4: A Durn's legacy, well, we can see the second most

717
00:41:36,053 --> 00:41:38,893
Speaker 4: clearly in fiscal policy, because we currently have a government

718
00:41:38,933 --> 00:41:43,613
Speaker 4: that spends about four or five percent of GDP more

719
00:41:43,973 --> 00:41:48,133
Speaker 4: than the government's spent before Cinda Durn became Prime minister.

720
00:41:48,213 --> 00:41:51,013
Speaker 4: So yes, she left us a much inflated public service,

721
00:41:51,053 --> 00:41:57,893
Speaker 4: a much inflated stay spending problem, and it will take

722
00:41:57,933 --> 00:42:00,813
Speaker 4: a long time until we get that back to where

723
00:42:00,813 --> 00:42:03,253
Speaker 4: it should be. And there are other policy fields, of

724
00:42:03,333 --> 00:42:05,813
Speaker 4: course where we could also go through her legacy and

725
00:42:05,933 --> 00:42:10,213
Speaker 4: find that yes, she left us legacy, which will take years,

726
00:42:10,213 --> 00:42:11,613
Speaker 4: if not decades to correct.

727
00:42:12,253 --> 00:42:16,853
Speaker 2: You wrote a column called the Drowning electorally Christopher Luckson's

728
00:42:16,973 --> 00:42:20,013
Speaker 2: premiership under pressure. So that was only a couple of

729
00:42:20,053 --> 00:42:24,613
Speaker 2: weeks back, halfway through this August just gone. So I

730
00:42:24,693 --> 00:42:29,373
Speaker 2: wonder whether mister Luxon has it or whether he's trying

731
00:42:29,533 --> 00:42:35,293
Speaker 2: his best and being shall we say, curtailed by elements

732
00:42:35,333 --> 00:42:37,973
Speaker 2: that he can't really resolve.

733
00:42:39,373 --> 00:42:39,613
Speaker 3: Well.

734
00:42:39,893 --> 00:42:42,013
Speaker 4: When I wrote this column, by the way, it was

735
00:42:42,093 --> 00:42:43,973
Speaker 4: one of those cases where you write a column and

736
00:42:44,053 --> 00:42:47,093
Speaker 4: you think you have delivered a relatively balanced piece of writing,

737
00:42:47,773 --> 00:42:49,493
Speaker 4: and then you see it in print and you get

738
00:42:49,493 --> 00:42:51,973
Speaker 4: a bit of a shock because they've chosen a different headline.

739
00:42:52,613 --> 00:42:53,853
Speaker 3: You probably know how that feels.

740
00:42:55,613 --> 00:43:00,293
Speaker 4: My initial headline was when political honeymoons never happened, And

741
00:43:01,093 --> 00:43:03,333
Speaker 4: when you read the piece, actually that headline made a

742
00:43:03,373 --> 00:43:05,493
Speaker 4: lot of sense because what I did was I tried

743
00:43:05,533 --> 00:43:09,333
Speaker 4: to sure that Luckson never really had a chance with

744
00:43:09,453 --> 00:43:12,253
Speaker 4: the media because they were always against him. He inherited

745
00:43:12,813 --> 00:43:17,013
Speaker 4: an enormous amount of problems from the predecessor government, and

746
00:43:17,093 --> 00:43:20,253
Speaker 4: we talked about some of them already, But then of

747
00:43:20,373 --> 00:43:23,933
Speaker 4: course he never really helped himself with some of his remarks,

748
00:43:23,973 --> 00:43:27,253
Speaker 4: with some of his communications strategy, and that's basically what

749
00:43:27,333 --> 00:43:31,093
Speaker 4: the piece was about. And I contrasted his performance and

750
00:43:31,493 --> 00:43:35,333
Speaker 4: the Minister of Finance's performance against the more successful members

751
00:43:35,453 --> 00:43:39,173
Speaker 4: of their cabinet, and that is, in my view, the

752
00:43:39,293 --> 00:43:42,253
Speaker 4: Education Minister Erica Sanford and the Housing Minister christ Bishop.

753
00:43:43,213 --> 00:43:45,253
Speaker 3: And I put this.

754
00:43:45,333 --> 00:43:48,253
Speaker 4: Against the context of our current opinion polling, which shows

755
00:43:48,293 --> 00:43:51,373
Speaker 4: that the government, according to some opinion polls, might struggle

756
00:43:51,453 --> 00:43:54,293
Speaker 4: to be returned next year in next year's election. And then,

757
00:43:54,333 --> 00:43:56,533
Speaker 4: of course I wrote this for an Australian publication, so

758
00:43:56,573 --> 00:43:59,293
Speaker 4: I was trying to explain to Australian readers how they

759
00:43:59,333 --> 00:44:01,373
Speaker 4: should read all of this, because what would happen in

760
00:44:01,373 --> 00:44:03,933
Speaker 4: Australias of course, that the party in government would panic,

761
00:44:04,453 --> 00:44:07,773
Speaker 4: immediately swopped the Prime Minister out, installed somebody else and

762
00:44:07,853 --> 00:44:10,773
Speaker 4: then tacked to the election. Because that's roughly how Australia

763
00:44:10,853 --> 00:44:13,573
Speaker 4: has worked since Kevin Rudd. I mean, we all know

764
00:44:14,133 --> 00:44:16,693
Speaker 4: and remember how that happened between Kevin Raht and Julia

765
00:44:16,733 --> 00:44:18,613
Speaker 4: Gillard and back to rot and then had happened on

766
00:44:18,653 --> 00:44:21,693
Speaker 4: the other side of politics, of course, between Tony Abbott

767
00:44:21,693 --> 00:44:25,413
Speaker 4: and Malcolm Turnbull and Scott Morrison, and that Australian prime

768
00:44:25,413 --> 00:44:28,893
Speaker 4: ministers actually sit out an entire parliamentary term in office,

769
00:44:29,733 --> 00:44:33,973
Speaker 4: as Alberanezi has just done, is not the norm anymore

770
00:44:34,013 --> 00:44:36,933
Speaker 4: in Australia, But in New Zealand, I argat we do

771
00:44:37,093 --> 00:44:40,733
Speaker 4: things differently and it's extremely rare for sitting prime ministers

772
00:44:40,773 --> 00:44:42,253
Speaker 4: to be swapped out. The last time it happened was

773
00:44:42,293 --> 00:44:45,533
Speaker 4: in the nineteen nineties, of course, and that was my column,

774
00:44:45,533 --> 00:44:47,333
Speaker 4: so it was quite a balanced one. But in the end,

775
00:44:47,413 --> 00:44:50,213
Speaker 4: of course, when you put a headline to it like that,

776
00:44:51,133 --> 00:44:55,293
Speaker 4: it sounds a bit more extreme than I had intended

777
00:44:55,333 --> 00:44:58,333
Speaker 4: it to be. What I would say, though, was this

778
00:44:58,453 --> 00:45:01,293
Speaker 4: government is clearly under a lot of pressure because we

779
00:45:01,493 --> 00:45:03,893
Speaker 4: all heard last year that we have to survive till

780
00:45:03,933 --> 00:45:07,653
Speaker 4: twenty five and everything would be fine, and that economic

781
00:45:07,693 --> 00:45:12,533
Speaker 4: recovery hasn't happened yet, and no wonder than that Luxon

782
00:45:12,693 --> 00:45:15,933
Speaker 4: is in trouble in the poors because people were actually

783
00:45:15,973 --> 00:45:18,853
Speaker 4: promised something else. They were promised by him and others

784
00:45:19,293 --> 00:45:22,613
Speaker 4: that we would get a recovery in economic recovery, and

785
00:45:23,973 --> 00:45:27,693
Speaker 4: that's what they were banking on. And now the recovery

786
00:45:27,773 --> 00:45:31,253
Speaker 4: hasn't happened, and Luxon is hoping that it will materialize

787
00:45:31,333 --> 00:45:33,293
Speaker 4: before we go to the ports again next year. But

788
00:45:33,373 --> 00:45:36,013
Speaker 4: that's basically his position in the polls right now.

789
00:45:36,053 --> 00:45:37,053
Speaker 3: And that was the piece.

790
00:45:38,333 --> 00:45:41,453
Speaker 2: And I think that was very well explained. I was

791
00:45:41,493 --> 00:45:43,773
Speaker 2: going to say that the two countries, Australia and New

792
00:45:43,813 --> 00:45:47,773
Speaker 2: Zealand are quite different in their political structure. We're a

793
00:45:47,933 --> 00:45:53,853
Speaker 2: uni chamber government. We've got various parties, of course, unfortunately,

794
00:45:54,533 --> 00:45:58,293
Speaker 2: but Australia has whether it's a federal system with numerous

795
00:45:58,933 --> 00:46:01,493
Speaker 2: how many states are they now, seven or six, I

796
00:46:01,573 --> 00:46:07,133
Speaker 2: can't remember, and they have an upper House at federal

797
00:46:07,253 --> 00:46:11,293
Speaker 2: level as well as state levels in some cases. So

798
00:46:12,453 --> 00:46:15,293
Speaker 2: what I'm driving at here is that in Australia there

799
00:46:15,333 --> 00:46:21,613
Speaker 2: are many more angles that politicians can utilize to achieve

800
00:46:21,653 --> 00:46:26,133
Speaker 2: what they want. With the battle between different states, between

801
00:46:27,533 --> 00:46:31,453
Speaker 2: the Senate and the House, it's much easier to come

802
00:46:31,533 --> 00:46:36,013
Speaker 2: up with an alternative to the current leadership that it

803
00:46:36,133 --> 00:46:36,453
Speaker 2: is here.

804
00:46:37,653 --> 00:46:42,293
Speaker 4: Yes, that's true. There are simply more politicians involved. Parliament

805
00:46:42,373 --> 00:46:44,333
Speaker 4: is also larger in camera they've got one hundred and

806
00:46:44,413 --> 00:46:47,373
Speaker 4: fifty mpiece compared to one hundred and twenty here. Normally,

807
00:46:49,453 --> 00:46:52,413
Speaker 4: and yet I think Australia is also a country with

808
00:46:53,573 --> 00:46:58,053
Speaker 4: two twenty four our TV stations, news stations. They've got

809
00:46:58,133 --> 00:47:01,533
Speaker 4: ABC News twenty four and they've got Sky News. They've

810
00:47:01,573 --> 00:47:06,813
Speaker 4: got endless talk back radio stations around the country, and

811
00:47:07,133 --> 00:47:09,813
Speaker 4: a much bigger and more diverse media scene, as we're

812
00:47:09,813 --> 00:47:13,413
Speaker 4: already discussed, and therefore everything is a bit quicker in Australia.

813
00:47:14,293 --> 00:47:16,573
Speaker 4: And so if a prime minister is really struggling in

814
00:47:16,613 --> 00:47:21,293
Speaker 4: Australia and has the entire media against him or her,

815
00:47:22,173 --> 00:47:27,093
Speaker 4: plus a relentless twenty four to seven news cycle, it

816
00:47:27,253 --> 00:47:30,013
Speaker 4: is much harder for Australian prime minister to survive in

817
00:47:30,133 --> 00:47:33,453
Speaker 4: that sense. New Zealand's a bit tamer and therefore even

818
00:47:33,533 --> 00:47:36,853
Speaker 4: for a struggling prime minister sitting on really not to

819
00:47:36,933 --> 00:47:39,773
Speaker 4: impressive economic data or opinion pause, it is perhaps a

820
00:47:39,853 --> 00:47:42,053
Speaker 4: bit easier to survive that in New Zealand.

821
00:47:42,933 --> 00:47:46,493
Speaker 2: Now, having discussed all that, I want to transfer our

822
00:47:46,573 --> 00:47:50,613
Speaker 2: attention to Leonardo da Vinci, and I'm going to ask

823
00:47:50,693 --> 00:47:55,653
Speaker 2: you to explain why you gave a speech. It was

824
00:47:55,733 --> 00:47:59,893
Speaker 2: the inaugural speech in Australia for the Leonardo da Vinci Lecture,

825
00:48:01,293 --> 00:48:06,013
Speaker 2: and I have to say it was an outstanding delivery.

826
00:48:07,093 --> 00:48:11,733
Speaker 2: I was, and I'm not trying to bother you up.

827
00:48:12,533 --> 00:48:16,853
Speaker 2: I was hooked on it from pretty much the beginning,

828
00:48:18,213 --> 00:48:20,813
Speaker 2: and there was so much I think wisdom in it,

829
00:48:21,213 --> 00:48:24,613
Speaker 2: so much information in it that I'm going to encourage

830
00:48:24,613 --> 00:48:27,573
Speaker 2: everyone to look it up. But we'll deal with that

831
00:48:27,693 --> 00:48:31,173
Speaker 2: at the end. So this was the inaugural Give us

832
00:48:31,213 --> 00:48:32,893
Speaker 2: a bit of background, Okay.

833
00:48:34,093 --> 00:48:38,053
Speaker 4: In Australia there is a company called Portfolio Construction Forum

834
00:48:38,173 --> 00:48:40,693
Speaker 4: that is run by my good old friend Graham Rich,

835
00:48:41,053 --> 00:48:43,333
Speaker 4: who's also a member of the New Zealand Nerative. Graham

836
00:48:43,453 --> 00:48:46,533
Speaker 4: is a New Zealander, a very proud New Zealander, but

837
00:48:46,653 --> 00:48:49,213
Speaker 4: based in Australia and where he has been for I

838
00:48:49,293 --> 00:48:53,893
Speaker 4: think twenty five or so years, and he organizes conferences

839
00:48:54,053 --> 00:48:57,213
Speaker 4: for investment professionals. So these are fund managers, these are

840
00:48:57,253 --> 00:49:02,013
Speaker 4: people working for super funds, chief investment officers, so people

841
00:49:02,053 --> 00:49:05,453
Speaker 4: who really move hundreds of millions of dollars or billions

842
00:49:05,453 --> 00:49:09,133
Speaker 4: of dollars in some of the cases. And twice a

843
00:49:09,213 --> 00:49:12,293
Speaker 4: year he organizes big conferences where they all come together

844
00:49:12,413 --> 00:49:14,133
Speaker 4: and where they discuss the state of the world in

845
00:49:14,213 --> 00:49:19,893
Speaker 4: financial markets. Graham is also someone who is very committed

846
00:49:20,053 --> 00:49:25,093
Speaker 4: to society, not just to finance, but actually to thinking

847
00:49:25,133 --> 00:49:31,053
Speaker 4: about the big issues facing society, politics, economics. For him,

848
00:49:31,133 --> 00:49:36,213
Speaker 4: that's kind of all linked and all connected. And I've

849
00:49:36,253 --> 00:49:40,493
Speaker 4: been speaking at Portfolio Construction Forum conferences for a long time.

850
00:49:40,533 --> 00:49:43,293
Speaker 4: I think my first one was probably about thirteen years ago,

851
00:49:43,693 --> 00:49:49,453
Speaker 4: actually in Auckland, and usually I'm talking about the bread

852
00:49:49,493 --> 00:49:53,013
Speaker 4: and butter issues of economics at these conferences. But Graham

853
00:49:53,053 --> 00:49:55,533
Speaker 4: contacted me earlier in the year and he asked, well,

854
00:49:55,893 --> 00:49:59,653
Speaker 4: I'm thinking of instituting something slightly different for these conferences.

855
00:49:59,733 --> 00:50:03,173
Speaker 4: I want to have something looking a little bit more

856
00:50:03,253 --> 00:50:06,973
Speaker 4: like the BBC Reflecture, where we look beyond today and

857
00:50:07,053 --> 00:50:09,853
Speaker 4: actually ask the bigger question. And I would like you

858
00:50:09,973 --> 00:50:13,733
Speaker 4: to deliver the first such lecture, and it's named after

859
00:50:13,853 --> 00:50:17,013
Speaker 4: da Vinci. Would you like to do that? And then,

860
00:50:17,173 --> 00:50:19,013
Speaker 4: of course, how could I say no. He's my friend,

861
00:50:19,933 --> 00:50:24,013
Speaker 4: and so I agreed on delivering this first Da Vinci lecture.

862
00:50:25,013 --> 00:50:28,533
Speaker 4: And then it took me a while until I realized, actually,

863
00:50:28,573 --> 00:50:33,373
Speaker 4: this was probably even more challenging than I had initially anticipated,

864
00:50:33,413 --> 00:50:36,133
Speaker 4: because it's not going to be yet another conference speech,

865
00:50:36,933 --> 00:50:38,813
Speaker 4: the kind of conference speech that I used to give

866
00:50:38,853 --> 00:50:42,853
Speaker 4: to his conferences, but this is really something deeper, more intellectual.

867
00:50:43,253 --> 00:50:45,933
Speaker 4: And then I had another chat with Graham and I said, well,

868
00:50:46,453 --> 00:50:49,333
Speaker 4: what I have in mind is actually something that I

869
00:50:49,373 --> 00:50:51,453
Speaker 4: would rather like to write an essay about than to

870
00:50:51,533 --> 00:50:54,893
Speaker 4: give a forty minute lecture. But then again, I don't

871
00:50:54,933 --> 00:50:57,573
Speaker 4: want to read out an essay as they would have

872
00:50:57,653 --> 00:51:00,973
Speaker 4: done at the BBC Reflectures, because I really find this

873
00:51:01,133 --> 00:51:05,373
Speaker 4: too stale. I would like to give a presentation to

874
00:51:05,493 --> 00:51:09,173
Speaker 4: you with no written menusc but I would like to

875
00:51:09,253 --> 00:51:12,093
Speaker 4: write down before and for everybody to read what I

876
00:51:12,173 --> 00:51:12,853
Speaker 4: really haven't read.

877
00:51:13,493 --> 00:51:14,573
Speaker 3: So Graham agreed to that.

878
00:51:15,093 --> 00:51:18,733
Speaker 4: I produced an essay of thirteen thousand words and I

879
00:51:18,853 --> 00:51:23,213
Speaker 4: delivered a forty minute presentation without a manuscript in Sydney

880
00:51:23,613 --> 00:51:25,413
Speaker 4: in front of an audience of two hundred people in

881
00:51:25,493 --> 00:51:28,773
Speaker 4: the room, at another thousand online and a venues across

882
00:51:28,773 --> 00:51:31,853
Speaker 4: Australia and New Zealand. What I wanted to do was

883
00:51:31,933 --> 00:51:35,093
Speaker 4: I wanted to start off with Da Vinci because it's

884
00:51:35,133 --> 00:51:37,133
Speaker 4: a named lecture, so I think it's always a good

885
00:51:37,173 --> 00:51:40,573
Speaker 4: practice to start off with a person after whom it's named.

886
00:51:41,133 --> 00:51:45,213
Speaker 4: But then I wanted to develop a broader philosophical view

887
00:51:45,413 --> 00:51:46,653
Speaker 4: of our current situation.

888
00:51:47,293 --> 00:51:48,733
Speaker 3: Where we stand in the world today.

889
00:51:50,853 --> 00:51:54,533
Speaker 2: So you called it, You've called it Leonardo's legacy. Is

890
00:51:54,613 --> 00:51:59,213
Speaker 2: it simple to describe what that legacy is, because I'm

891
00:51:59,253 --> 00:52:02,653
Speaker 2: guessing it's not because you've written thirteen thousand words on it.

892
00:52:03,373 --> 00:52:04,613
Speaker 2: But take it where you want.

893
00:52:05,373 --> 00:52:08,973
Speaker 4: Okay, Well, let's start with Leonardo then, and explain a

894
00:52:09,013 --> 00:52:13,453
Speaker 4: bit about Leonardo. Most people, of course think Leonardo the painter,

895
00:52:14,013 --> 00:52:18,093
Speaker 4: the famous painter behind paintings like the Mona Lisa. But

896
00:52:18,253 --> 00:52:22,413
Speaker 4: Leonardo is more than that. Leonardo is the ultimate renaissance man.

897
00:52:23,413 --> 00:52:26,013
Speaker 4: What that means is that he was a person who

898
00:52:26,133 --> 00:52:32,413
Speaker 4: was universally curious about life, about art, about engineering, about science,

899
00:52:33,253 --> 00:52:38,733
Speaker 4: about everything really and everything in Leonardo's word connected. I

900
00:52:39,093 --> 00:52:42,093
Speaker 4: explain this in the lecture by going back to the

901
00:52:42,213 --> 00:52:45,893
Speaker 4: year fourteen eighty two when Leonardo, a thirty year old

902
00:52:45,973 --> 00:52:51,333
Speaker 4: self taught man from Florence, applies to ludovico's Forza, who

903
00:52:51,453 --> 00:52:55,253
Speaker 4: later became the Duke of Milan, and he applies for employment.

904
00:52:55,773 --> 00:52:58,413
Speaker 4: And so he points out to Ludovico Sforza that he

905
00:52:58,493 --> 00:53:02,653
Speaker 4: can build chariots, he can build catapults, he can build

906
00:53:02,693 --> 00:53:05,173
Speaker 4: portable bridges, and then only as a ps he says

907
00:53:05,213 --> 00:53:07,933
Speaker 4: and by the way I can paint, and he gets

908
00:53:07,973 --> 00:53:10,813
Speaker 4: the job, he moves to Milan. He spent seventeen years

909
00:53:10,853 --> 00:53:13,413
Speaker 4: in Milan. And the rest is history, and the rest

910
00:53:13,573 --> 00:53:18,013
Speaker 4: is art history. But really, what Leonardo gave us, apart

911
00:53:18,133 --> 00:53:21,253
Speaker 4: from these artworks, apart from his drawings, apart from his

912
00:53:21,413 --> 00:53:24,733
Speaker 4: notebook running over thousands of pages, you know, with drawings

913
00:53:24,773 --> 00:53:29,973
Speaker 4: of a anatomy of machines, of mathematical proofs of everything,

914
00:53:30,093 --> 00:53:34,853
Speaker 4: really he gave us effectively a scientific method or the

915
00:53:35,213 --> 00:53:38,293
Speaker 4: scientific method. And that was more than a century before

916
00:53:38,333 --> 00:53:42,173
Speaker 4: Francis Bacon. And in that way he introduced reason into

917
00:53:42,213 --> 00:53:45,653
Speaker 4: the world. And what I did then in the lecture

918
00:53:45,773 --> 00:53:48,213
Speaker 4: was I tried to trace where this took us, where

919
00:53:48,253 --> 00:53:51,453
Speaker 4: this new way of thinking actually took us, not just

920
00:53:51,533 --> 00:53:56,973
Speaker 4: in art and engineering, but in science. And I argue

921
00:53:57,533 --> 00:54:02,893
Speaker 4: that this Renaissance mindset, this discovery of reason, this rediscovery

922
00:54:02,973 --> 00:54:08,173
Speaker 4: of ancient Greek texts, is really behind what propelled economic

923
00:54:08,333 --> 00:54:13,093
Speaker 4: growth and social growth and development in the West since

924
00:54:13,173 --> 00:54:16,533
Speaker 4: that time of the Renaissance and then of course through

925
00:54:16,693 --> 00:54:21,693
Speaker 4: the Enlightenment. And I tried to then reconstruct actually how

926
00:54:21,773 --> 00:54:26,533
Speaker 4: this mindset of the use of reason also created a

927
00:54:26,653 --> 00:54:30,613
Speaker 4: set of global institutions of legal institutions that propelled this

928
00:54:30,773 --> 00:54:36,133
Speaker 4: Western development. I start off with the Peace of Westphalia

929
00:54:36,213 --> 00:54:39,333
Speaker 4: in sixteen forty eight, the piece that was concluded in

930
00:54:39,453 --> 00:54:44,493
Speaker 4: Munster and Osnabruck after the Thirty Year War. I explain

931
00:54:44,613 --> 00:54:49,533
Speaker 4: how this links into emerging legal philosophy about trading between nations,

932
00:54:50,453 --> 00:54:54,573
Speaker 4: and I mentioned Hugo Grazios as the great legal theorist

933
00:54:54,653 --> 00:54:57,493
Speaker 4: from the Netherlands at the time, and emade Fatal who

934
00:54:58,053 --> 00:55:05,173
Speaker 4: later concluded or continued rather this legal philosophy. I then

935
00:55:05,333 --> 00:55:09,293
Speaker 4: explain how that created an order in which sovereigns could

936
00:55:09,613 --> 00:55:13,453
Speaker 4: trade better with one another. I explained how this then

937
00:55:13,573 --> 00:55:17,653
Speaker 4: leads us eventually to the first age of globalization, which

938
00:55:17,733 --> 00:55:21,053
Speaker 4: is the concept of concept of Europe, which happened after

939
00:55:21,093 --> 00:55:24,893
Speaker 4: the Congress of Vienna in eighteen fifteen. How that lasted

940
00:55:24,933 --> 00:55:27,333
Speaker 4: for almost a century really until the beginning of the

941
00:55:27,413 --> 00:55:30,613
Speaker 4: First World War nineteen fourteen. How this led to enormous

942
00:55:30,613 --> 00:55:34,773
Speaker 4: amounts of prosperity and a stable currency based on the

943
00:55:34,813 --> 00:55:38,973
Speaker 4: gold standard. How this also is the driving force really

944
00:55:39,053 --> 00:55:42,533
Speaker 4: behind the industrial revolution which really picked up steam quite

945
00:55:42,573 --> 00:55:46,013
Speaker 4: literally in the nineteenth century. And then I explained what

946
00:55:46,053 --> 00:55:52,373
Speaker 4: happened when order collapses after the First World War, how

947
00:55:53,533 --> 00:55:56,413
Speaker 4: it took us ten seventy years to really regain the

948
00:55:56,573 --> 00:56:00,013
Speaker 4: kind of globalization that we lost in nineteen fourteen. And

949
00:56:00,093 --> 00:56:03,733
Speaker 4: I explained that all of this depends on a guaranteur

950
00:56:04,173 --> 00:56:07,893
Speaker 4: of the rules, someone who is willing to stand up

951
00:56:08,133 --> 00:56:12,293
Speaker 4: for this rules based order and who provides that security

952
00:56:12,333 --> 00:56:15,413
Speaker 4: and stability as a public could. In the first age

953
00:56:15,453 --> 00:56:19,013
Speaker 4: of globalization, that was Britain, and obviously it was Brittain

954
00:56:19,053 --> 00:56:21,453
Speaker 4: because it was the dominant global empire at the time.

955
00:56:21,973 --> 00:56:25,333
Speaker 4: In the second era of globalization, that was the United States.

956
00:56:26,293 --> 00:56:29,013
Speaker 4: And then I talk about our crises that were encountering today,

957
00:56:29,093 --> 00:56:31,013
Speaker 4: and I asked the question whether we are in the

958
00:56:31,093 --> 00:56:34,453
Speaker 4: process of undermining or losing that order, and where that

959
00:56:34,573 --> 00:56:35,253
Speaker 4: leaves us today.

960
00:56:36,373 --> 00:56:39,813
Speaker 2: Let me ask a couple of a couple of specific questions.

961
00:56:41,053 --> 00:56:45,173
Speaker 2: But Leonardo's true disruption was in how he thought about

962
00:56:45,293 --> 00:56:48,733
Speaker 2: knowledge itself. While these contemporaries looked for truth in ancient

963
00:56:48,813 --> 00:56:53,093
Speaker 2: texts and religious doctrine, Leonardo pioneered a new radical approach.

964
00:56:53,173 --> 00:56:58,413
Speaker 2: My intention is to consult experience first, and then with reasoning,

965
00:56:58,853 --> 00:57:02,053
Speaker 2: show why such experience is bound to operate in such

966
00:57:02,093 --> 00:57:07,173
Speaker 2: a way. And quote this simple formula. You write experience first,

967
00:57:07,253 --> 00:57:14,133
Speaker 2: then reason would eventually reshape science. A few lines further on,

968
00:57:15,413 --> 00:57:19,693
Speaker 2: all sciences are vain and full of baros that are

969
00:57:19,773 --> 00:57:23,933
Speaker 2: not born of experience, the mother of all knowledge, he declared.

970
00:57:24,853 --> 00:57:30,133
Speaker 2: Does that describe beautifully a situation with much science today.

971
00:57:32,173 --> 00:57:36,453
Speaker 4: What it describes us that Leonardo took a different path

972
00:57:36,733 --> 00:57:42,253
Speaker 4: even from ancient Greece. In ancient Greece, we didn't have

973
00:57:42,413 --> 00:57:49,733
Speaker 4: this empiricism, We didn't have experimentation. Greek philosophy basically is

974
00:57:49,773 --> 00:57:55,453
Speaker 4: a philosophy of deduction, so you deduce our findings logically

975
00:57:55,733 --> 00:58:00,173
Speaker 4: from propositions. That's basically the ancient Greek approach to finding knowledge.

976
00:58:00,613 --> 00:58:05,573
Speaker 4: What Leonardo invented was really this empirical observation of experimentation.

977
00:58:06,493 --> 00:58:11,053
Speaker 4: I mean that there are numerous ex lamples where Leonardo experimented,

978
00:58:11,093 --> 00:58:13,213
Speaker 4: where he just threw things into a river just to

979
00:58:13,253 --> 00:58:16,693
Speaker 4: see how the river floors, and how to make these

980
00:58:16,893 --> 00:58:22,213
Speaker 4: river floors visible to his eye. Leonardo realized that you

981
00:58:22,333 --> 00:58:25,733
Speaker 4: have to replicate things. You can't just assume that because

982
00:58:25,893 --> 00:58:28,613
Speaker 4: something happened once, it will always happen again. You have

983
00:58:28,693 --> 00:58:30,813
Speaker 4: to test this, and you have to repeat the experiment

984
00:58:30,973 --> 00:58:33,893
Speaker 4: to find out whether that still holds. And in that way,

985
00:58:34,693 --> 00:58:38,773
Speaker 4: Leonardo is a forerunner to modern science and to the

986
00:58:38,853 --> 00:58:41,693
Speaker 4: scientific method, which Francis Bacon, of course came up with

987
00:58:42,173 --> 00:58:44,893
Speaker 4: one hundred years later. So in that sense, Leonardo is

988
00:58:46,613 --> 00:58:51,173
Speaker 4: well a forerunner certainly of the Enlightenment. And I talk

989
00:58:51,213 --> 00:58:54,453
Speaker 4: about this later only I say how much the Enlightenment

990
00:58:54,533 --> 00:58:57,013
Speaker 4: has actually shaped us in all sorts of ways, not

991
00:58:57,173 --> 00:58:59,453
Speaker 4: just in science, but also in the way we think

992
00:58:59,493 --> 00:59:03,733
Speaker 4: about government, how we think about the legal system, how

993
00:59:03,773 --> 00:59:07,013
Speaker 4: we think about the court system, how we think about

994
00:59:07,093 --> 00:59:12,133
Speaker 4: knowledge itself. And in that sense, Leonardo, though being as

995
00:59:12,173 --> 00:59:14,893
Speaker 4: I said, the ultimate venaisance man, is actually the ultimate

996
00:59:14,973 --> 00:59:16,293
Speaker 4: forerunner of the Enlightenment.

997
00:59:16,373 --> 00:59:19,373
Speaker 2: In my view, what would you call his way of

998
00:59:19,453 --> 00:59:20,813
Speaker 2: thinking critical thinking?

999
00:59:21,613 --> 00:59:24,253
Speaker 4: Ha ha ha, Not in the way that we are

1000
00:59:24,293 --> 00:59:27,253
Speaker 4: currently using that term critical thinking, but yes, in a

1001
00:59:27,333 --> 00:59:30,413
Speaker 4: way certainly critical thinking when this was still positive.

1002
00:59:32,093 --> 00:59:34,733
Speaker 2: So one of the reasons that this really got to

1003
00:59:34,813 --> 00:59:39,613
Speaker 2: be was if we were to take on this approach

1004
00:59:39,773 --> 00:59:43,813
Speaker 2: to education, what would that do for the What would

1005
00:59:43,853 --> 00:59:46,373
Speaker 2: that do for the students and for the country.

1006
00:59:47,733 --> 00:59:52,013
Speaker 4: Well, for the students, it would be much more interesting

1007
00:59:52,493 --> 00:59:56,813
Speaker 4: than regurgitating dogmas presented to them. It would encourage them

1008
00:59:56,853 --> 01:00:00,333
Speaker 4: to think, It would encourage them to experiment. It would

1009
01:00:00,413 --> 01:00:05,173
Speaker 4: ideally instill an idea of knowledge in a thirst four

1010
01:00:05,253 --> 01:00:08,813
Speaker 4: knowledge into the students. The other thing that I think

1011
01:00:08,853 --> 01:00:11,613
Speaker 4: it would do is actually it would demonstrate his students

1012
01:00:11,813 --> 01:00:16,293
Speaker 4: that everything connects to everything else. The one thing that

1013
01:00:16,453 --> 01:00:22,493
Speaker 4: really stands out for Leonardo is that he didn't make

1014
01:00:22,573 --> 01:00:25,773
Speaker 4: any great differentiations between the various sciences and between the

1015
01:00:25,853 --> 01:00:31,373
Speaker 4: various knowledge forms. In Leonardo's world, everything is connected. And

1016
01:00:31,453 --> 01:00:33,373
Speaker 4: you can see this quite clearly when you go through

1017
01:00:33,413 --> 01:00:37,573
Speaker 4: his notebook and you see drawings of anatomy, which he

1018
01:00:37,693 --> 01:00:42,213
Speaker 4: was fascinated by, next to machines invented, next to mathematical proofs.

1019
01:00:42,773 --> 01:00:46,973
Speaker 4: Everything is connected. And I have a quote right at

1020
01:00:47,013 --> 01:00:49,453
Speaker 4: the beginning of the essay where he talks about the

1021
01:00:49,573 --> 01:00:53,773
Speaker 4: mind as a mirror. Now, as I said in the lecture,

1022
01:00:54,093 --> 01:00:56,813
Speaker 4: a mieror can only work if the mirror is clean,

1023
01:00:57,773 --> 01:01:01,973
Speaker 4: if the mirror is somehow blurred, if you have anything

1024
01:01:02,373 --> 01:01:05,853
Speaker 4: obscuring the view, you wouldn't see the full picture. And

1025
01:01:05,933 --> 01:01:09,693
Speaker 4: American only work if the mirror is not broken. And unfortunately,

1026
01:01:09,773 --> 01:01:12,293
Speaker 4: what we do too often these days is we we

1027
01:01:12,493 --> 01:01:16,813
Speaker 4: break knowledge, we break science, we break observations into all

1028
01:01:16,933 --> 01:01:21,053
Speaker 4: sorts of little aspects, and then we unfortunately missed a

1029
01:01:21,093 --> 01:01:26,173
Speaker 4: bigger picture because often different areas of knowledge belong together.

1030
01:01:26,333 --> 01:01:30,173
Speaker 4: And I quote again Hyak for the Jiak, the Austrian

1031
01:01:30,213 --> 01:01:34,693
Speaker 4: economist in my forward. Hayak once said that you cannot

1032
01:01:34,693 --> 01:01:37,173
Speaker 4: be a good economist if you own an economist. And

1033
01:01:37,333 --> 01:01:41,653
Speaker 4: Hyak himself had degrees in psychology, in economics, and in law,

1034
01:01:41,893 --> 01:01:44,693
Speaker 4: so he did practice what he preached. I think by

1035
01:01:44,733 --> 01:01:47,133
Speaker 4: the same talking, we could say you cannot be a

1036
01:01:47,173 --> 01:01:49,013
Speaker 4: good banker if you're only a banker, or a good

1037
01:01:49,093 --> 01:01:52,653
Speaker 4: portfolio manager, if you're only a portfolio manager, or a

1038
01:01:52,733 --> 01:01:54,813
Speaker 4: good teacher if you're only a teacher. You need to

1039
01:01:54,893 --> 01:01:58,933
Speaker 4: be something else. And that is really what Leonardo gave us.

1040
01:01:58,973 --> 01:02:02,693
Speaker 4: So I think if we taught his all encompassing view

1041
01:02:02,813 --> 01:02:06,653
Speaker 4: of the world, his great curiosity to our young generation,

1042
01:02:06,853 --> 01:02:09,693
Speaker 4: to students, they would find this fascinating.

1043
01:02:11,013 --> 01:02:14,493
Speaker 2: I recall doing ancient history in high school for a year,

1044
01:02:16,293 --> 01:02:19,133
Speaker 2: and I wondered why the hell I was there. We

1045
01:02:19,453 --> 01:02:25,133
Speaker 2: had a teacher who was getting on, who either sat

1046
01:02:25,413 --> 01:02:30,293
Speaker 2: or stood leaning on his desk and read from a

1047
01:02:30,333 --> 01:02:36,173
Speaker 2: book monotonously, and you couldn't concentrate on it, because you

1048
01:02:36,693 --> 01:02:40,213
Speaker 2: couldn't maintain that concentration. It was dull, it was boring.

1049
01:02:41,333 --> 01:02:44,733
Speaker 2: It was only years later that I discovered the value

1050
01:02:44,773 --> 01:02:49,853
Speaker 2: of education in ancient with ancient history, or in ancient history,

1051
01:02:50,933 --> 01:02:54,693
Speaker 2: and how much I enjoyed it later on. Now, if you,

1052
01:02:55,413 --> 01:02:59,133
Speaker 2: if you took the approach that you've been talking about

1053
01:02:59,573 --> 01:03:02,973
Speaker 2: and introduced that you've already said this, I reckon, you'd get.

1054
01:03:03,173 --> 01:03:07,173
Speaker 2: You'd get many more kids who would be able to concentrate,

1055
01:03:07,373 --> 01:03:10,533
Speaker 2: would become more interested in what was on offer, and

1056
01:03:10,693 --> 01:03:12,613
Speaker 2: would have a far more successful life.

1057
01:03:13,893 --> 01:03:16,573
Speaker 4: I would not disagree. But let's not talk about the

1058
01:03:16,653 --> 01:03:20,533
Speaker 4: kids only. Let's talk about investment professionals. And I wrote

1059
01:03:20,573 --> 01:03:24,653
Speaker 4: the essay, and when I delivered that lecture, my biggest

1060
01:03:24,733 --> 01:03:27,133
Speaker 4: fear was that I would just go over people's heads

1061
01:03:27,213 --> 01:03:31,453
Speaker 4: because they have. Of course, they thought they would attend

1062
01:03:31,693 --> 01:03:36,093
Speaker 4: a conference of investment professionals about portfolio management, and instead

1063
01:03:36,133 --> 01:03:38,493
Speaker 4: they get the Da Vinci lecture and they are taught

1064
01:03:38,533 --> 01:03:41,333
Speaker 4: about the Mona Lisa and the flying machine and the

1065
01:03:41,413 --> 01:03:45,133
Speaker 4: notebook an anatomy and how everything connects. This is not

1066
01:03:45,253 --> 01:03:48,533
Speaker 4: what you would typically expect at a business conference. And

1067
01:03:48,693 --> 01:03:52,693
Speaker 4: so my worry when I prepared all of this was

1068
01:03:52,773 --> 01:03:55,173
Speaker 4: that they would say, well, what the hell is that?

1069
01:03:55,373 --> 01:03:59,053
Speaker 4: What is he going on about? What I really wanted

1070
01:03:59,093 --> 01:04:01,173
Speaker 4: to make them realize, and I think it actually worked.

1071
01:04:01,173 --> 01:04:03,893
Speaker 4: I got good feedback on the lecture afterwards, was that

1072
01:04:04,093 --> 01:04:07,693
Speaker 4: everything really connects, and especially what they are doing in

1073
01:04:07,813 --> 01:04:11,013
Speaker 4: their jobs. They might think, actually, what I do, putting

1074
01:04:11,013 --> 01:04:15,773
Speaker 4: together at portfolio, buying shares and bonds and shopping around

1075
01:04:15,813 --> 01:04:17,373
Speaker 4: the market is just normal.

1076
01:04:17,653 --> 01:04:20,173
Speaker 3: It's just how we do business. That's how we've always

1077
01:04:20,213 --> 01:04:20,733
Speaker 3: done business.

1078
01:04:20,773 --> 01:04:26,133
Speaker 4: And we're having diversified portfolios to protect ourselves from kind

1079
01:04:26,173 --> 01:04:29,013
Speaker 4: of the uncertainties of life, and that's how it works.

1080
01:04:29,093 --> 01:04:32,453
Speaker 4: What I try to show them in my lecture was actually, yes,

1081
01:04:32,613 --> 01:04:35,533
Speaker 4: you may be dealing in markets and you're putting together

1082
01:04:35,613 --> 01:04:37,813
Speaker 4: your portfolios and you think this is the most normal

1083
01:04:37,893 --> 01:04:40,413
Speaker 4: thing in the world. But actually what you don't realize

1084
01:04:41,053 --> 01:04:48,413
Speaker 4: without the underlying foundations, Without those foundations created by da Vinci,

1085
01:04:48,973 --> 01:04:54,653
Speaker 4: Emanuel Kant, John Locke Wantesqueue, you wouldn't be there. You

1086
01:04:54,693 --> 01:04:57,453
Speaker 4: wouldn't have a portfolio, you wouldn't be able to actually

1087
01:04:57,533 --> 01:05:00,813
Speaker 4: put your money together in the way you currently do.

1088
01:05:01,013 --> 01:05:05,333
Speaker 4: Because all of this depends on civilizational foundations that took

1089
01:05:05,493 --> 01:05:09,453
Speaker 4: centuries to build, that took loyal loyal like Rootzius in

1090
01:05:09,493 --> 01:05:15,053
Speaker 4: a funnel, that took scientists like Leonardo da Vinci and

1091
01:05:15,133 --> 01:05:18,813
Speaker 4: Francis Bacon, and all of this culminated and built this

1092
01:05:19,053 --> 01:05:23,133
Speaker 4: very foundation of Western civilization. We take this for granted,

1093
01:05:23,253 --> 01:05:28,253
Speaker 4: because yeah, it's always been like that, but actually, should

1094
01:05:28,293 --> 01:05:31,813
Speaker 4: we take it for granted or should be realized that

1095
01:05:32,053 --> 01:05:34,933
Speaker 4: we are only able to do whatever we do in

1096
01:05:35,093 --> 01:05:40,933
Speaker 4: business because of these foundations, because of these underlying philosophies.

1097
01:05:41,893 --> 01:05:44,533
Speaker 4: And that was my challenge to the audience. That is

1098
01:05:44,573 --> 01:05:47,773
Speaker 4: a challenge in the essay. And I have this recurring

1099
01:05:48,133 --> 01:05:51,813
Speaker 4: phrase in the essay that nothing feels missing when these

1100
01:05:51,853 --> 01:05:54,333
Speaker 4: foundations are being uninstalled, because you can still go to

1101
01:05:54,413 --> 01:05:57,893
Speaker 4: the market, you can still trade, and yes, the goods

1102
01:05:57,933 --> 01:06:01,373
Speaker 4: that you order are still being delivered, except at some

1103
01:06:01,533 --> 01:06:04,853
Speaker 4: stage they might no longer be and that is the problem.

1104
01:06:04,933 --> 01:06:07,173
Speaker 4: So nothing feels missing until it's gone, and then it

1105
01:06:07,293 --> 01:06:10,613
Speaker 4: might be gone quite soon. And we've been there before.

1106
01:06:11,173 --> 01:06:13,693
Speaker 4: And I have this example of the First World War.

1107
01:06:13,773 --> 01:06:18,533
Speaker 4: If you had a balanced mixed portfolio in nineteen fourteen,

1108
01:06:18,613 --> 01:06:21,573
Speaker 4: say you in Germany, you have some cash which you

1109
01:06:21,613 --> 01:06:24,933
Speaker 4: invest somewhere in Germany, you might have some Russian railway bonds,

1110
01:06:25,333 --> 01:06:28,213
Speaker 4: you might have some French equities, and you think that

1111
01:06:28,373 --> 01:06:32,333
Speaker 4: is a wonderful portfolio. By nineteen twenty three, all of

1112
01:06:32,413 --> 01:06:36,093
Speaker 4: this would have evaporated because the Bolsheviks had basically taking

1113
01:06:36,173 --> 01:06:40,133
Speaker 4: over the Russian economy, French equities were now hidden behind

1114
01:06:40,253 --> 01:06:44,013
Speaker 4: capital barriers, and your German savings would have been eradicated

1115
01:06:44,093 --> 01:06:48,093
Speaker 4: completely by German hyperinflation. So, no matter how carefully you

1116
01:06:48,253 --> 01:06:52,373
Speaker 4: put together your portfolio before World War One, by nineteen

1117
01:06:52,373 --> 01:06:55,133
Speaker 4: twenty three in Germany, it would have all been worthless.

1118
01:06:55,773 --> 01:06:59,493
Speaker 4: And so this is my metaphor really for showing how

1119
01:06:59,573 --> 01:07:02,653
Speaker 4: much we depend on foundations that we can't control, but

1120
01:07:02,773 --> 01:07:04,453
Speaker 4: that we have a responsibility for.

1121
01:07:06,453 --> 01:07:08,693
Speaker 2: Again, I'm going to say that there is in this

1122
01:07:09,133 --> 01:07:14,613
Speaker 2: that is nothing short of wisdom. What is the best

1123
01:07:14,693 --> 01:07:16,973
Speaker 2: way to access it?

1124
01:07:17,493 --> 01:07:18,013
Speaker 3: The essay?

1125
01:07:19,893 --> 01:07:23,173
Speaker 4: The best way is probably to go into your podcast

1126
01:07:23,293 --> 01:07:25,853
Speaker 4: Shore Notes and you might share a link. You can

1127
01:07:25,933 --> 01:07:28,413
Speaker 4: find this on my personal website. I've put it on

1128
01:07:28,613 --> 01:07:33,453
Speaker 4: Oliver Hartbeach dot com and you look for Leonardo's Legacy

1129
01:07:34,173 --> 01:07:38,133
Speaker 4: and there you will find the essay that's thirteen thousand words,

1130
01:07:38,533 --> 01:07:40,893
Speaker 4: and you will also be able to watch the DaVinci

1131
01:07:41,013 --> 01:07:42,053
Speaker 4: lecture I gave in Sydney.

1132
01:07:43,333 --> 01:07:47,693
Speaker 2: Indulge in both is my response. There's still a couple

1133
01:07:47,733 --> 01:07:52,373
Speaker 2: of things. I want your opinion on the dimension of

1134
01:07:52,413 --> 01:07:56,813
Speaker 2: a monetary system based on gold standard. Why did that?

1135
01:07:57,213 --> 01:08:00,453
Speaker 2: Why did that fail or collapse or disintegrate? Whatever happened.

1136
01:08:03,053 --> 01:08:07,653
Speaker 4: Well, for as long as humanity had money, it was

1137
01:08:07,773 --> 01:08:12,973
Speaker 4: always based on some metals, usually precious metals, usually silver

1138
01:08:13,093 --> 01:08:16,013
Speaker 4: and gold. You go back over the millennia and you

1139
01:08:16,133 --> 01:08:19,933
Speaker 4: find that basically all currencies were always based on that

1140
01:08:20,973 --> 01:08:26,373
Speaker 4: until nineteen seventy one. So in nineteen seventy one we

1141
01:08:26,693 --> 01:08:29,653
Speaker 4: severed the last links to the old gold standard that

1142
01:08:29,773 --> 01:08:32,133
Speaker 4: was still remained, of course, in the Breton Woods Agreement,

1143
01:08:32,173 --> 01:08:36,213
Speaker 4: because the Americans promised to convert US dollars to gold.

1144
01:08:36,813 --> 01:08:40,933
Speaker 4: When that no longer was possible because of America's fiscal

1145
01:08:41,013 --> 01:08:44,333
Speaker 4: deficits and especially because of the Vietnam War, it was

1146
01:08:44,413 --> 01:08:49,013
Speaker 4: President Nixon who decided to leave gold behind and move

1147
01:08:49,093 --> 01:08:53,453
Speaker 4: towards an entire fiat currency, meaning that the Federal Reserve

1148
01:08:53,533 --> 01:08:56,453
Speaker 4: can create as much money as they like without any

1149
01:08:56,493 --> 01:09:00,533
Speaker 4: limitations and without linking it back to gold. So we've

1150
01:09:00,573 --> 01:09:04,653
Speaker 4: had this experiment now for more than fifty years, and

1151
01:09:05,173 --> 01:09:07,813
Speaker 4: unfortunately the gold standard is no longer with us. So

1152
01:09:07,893 --> 01:09:10,613
Speaker 4: we are world in which we have to rely entirely

1153
01:09:11,293 --> 01:09:14,373
Speaker 4: on central banks not overdoing it with their ability to

1154
01:09:14,453 --> 01:09:17,573
Speaker 4: create money out of thin air. But if you go

1155
01:09:17,693 --> 01:09:20,413
Speaker 4: back into history and you look at how it used

1156
01:09:20,453 --> 01:09:23,173
Speaker 4: to be, you look at the nineteenth century. The nineteenth

1157
01:09:23,173 --> 01:09:25,533
Speaker 4: century was a time of price stability and actually in

1158
01:09:25,613 --> 01:09:29,213
Speaker 4: some cases deflation. There is a wonderful paper from the

1159
01:09:29,693 --> 01:09:34,813
Speaker 4: Parliamentary Library in Britain and it tracks inflation over the

1160
01:09:34,933 --> 01:09:38,733
Speaker 4: nineteenth century and it details that for most of the

1161
01:09:38,813 --> 01:09:42,893
Speaker 4: nineteenth century in Britain, deflation was the norm, meaning that

1162
01:09:43,213 --> 01:09:45,853
Speaker 4: prices were not just stable, but slightly falling, and probably

1163
01:09:45,933 --> 01:09:50,613
Speaker 4: because of increased productivity. So increases in productivity translated in

1164
01:09:50,693 --> 01:09:53,693
Speaker 4: goods becoming cheaper and people being able to afford more.

1165
01:09:54,573 --> 01:09:57,893
Speaker 4: It was only once we deviated from the gold standard

1166
01:09:57,893 --> 01:09:59,853
Speaker 4: and then finally gave it up in nineteen seventy one,

1167
01:09:59,973 --> 01:10:02,853
Speaker 4: that we ended in the world in which we've become

1168
01:10:02,973 --> 01:10:07,853
Speaker 4: used to ongoing inflation, sometimes hyperinflation, but certainly not the

1169
01:10:07,973 --> 01:10:11,693
Speaker 4: kind of from price stability that we once took for granted,

1170
01:10:12,213 --> 01:10:15,773
Speaker 4: and certainly a world now where the thought of deflation

1171
01:10:16,013 --> 01:10:18,213
Speaker 4: makes us worry that something is wrong, when that was

1172
01:10:18,293 --> 01:10:20,413
Speaker 4: the norm really for most of the nineteenth century.

1173
01:10:22,893 --> 01:10:27,373
Speaker 2: I read only yesterday the latest pace with regard to

1174
01:10:28,213 --> 01:10:33,493
Speaker 2: the possibility probability in some people's in some people's minds,

1175
01:10:34,373 --> 01:10:38,453
Speaker 2: of Trump reintroducing a gold standard for America.

1176
01:10:39,173 --> 01:10:44,333
Speaker 4: What chance do you think, Well, it's hard to tell

1177
01:10:44,413 --> 01:10:47,773
Speaker 4: with Trump, because he changes his mind too many times.

1178
01:10:48,453 --> 01:10:51,213
Speaker 4: I've heard him now on the same day actually talking

1179
01:10:51,253 --> 01:10:54,013
Speaker 4: about a strong US dollar he believes in, and any

1180
01:10:54,333 --> 01:10:56,253
Speaker 4: says a few hours later that a week US dollar

1181
01:10:56,333 --> 01:10:57,413
Speaker 4: is what he really would like to have.

1182
01:10:58,333 --> 01:10:59,893
Speaker 3: So not quite sure.

1183
01:11:00,013 --> 01:11:02,173
Speaker 4: I heard the theory too that he might be interested

1184
01:11:02,213 --> 01:11:04,733
Speaker 4: in a gold stander eventually, but I think it would

1185
01:11:04,773 --> 01:11:07,493
Speaker 4: only come after he's completely wrecked the US dollar as

1186
01:11:07,533 --> 01:11:10,853
Speaker 4: it stands right now, because the policies that Trump wants

1187
01:11:10,893 --> 01:11:12,853
Speaker 4: to introduce, and you can see this in his fight

1188
01:11:12,933 --> 01:11:16,893
Speaker 4: with the Fed is a loser monetary policy, so lower

1189
01:11:17,053 --> 01:11:21,093
Speaker 4: interest rates, which would deflate some sorry inflate some of

1190
01:11:21,133 --> 01:11:25,173
Speaker 4: his problems away. And we can see that he's trying

1191
01:11:25,213 --> 01:11:27,933
Speaker 4: to bring the Fed under White House control, so away

1192
01:11:28,013 --> 01:11:30,733
Speaker 4: from the system that we've had now since the times

1193
01:11:30,813 --> 01:11:33,373
Speaker 4: of Ronald Reagan and Paul Walker, where the FED was

1194
01:11:33,453 --> 01:11:37,973
Speaker 4: independent towards an entirely politicized FED. And we know how

1195
01:11:38,173 --> 01:11:42,373
Speaker 4: entirely politicized central banks work. Typically, they choose interest rates

1196
01:11:42,413 --> 01:11:45,813
Speaker 4: that are too low, they flood markets with money, and

1197
01:11:46,973 --> 01:11:49,213
Speaker 4: in that way, yes, you can inflate your problem away,

1198
01:11:49,293 --> 01:11:51,853
Speaker 4: but for the economy as such, it's a problem. If

1199
01:11:51,893 --> 01:11:54,213
Speaker 4: you want to have a current example of the policies

1200
01:11:54,253 --> 01:11:56,893
Speaker 4: that Trump would probably like to implement, you look at

1201
01:11:56,933 --> 01:12:00,973
Speaker 4: Turkey and they've been fighting with severe inflation now for

1202
01:12:01,173 --> 01:12:04,493
Speaker 4: many years because their president aed One is doing exactly

1203
01:12:04,573 --> 01:12:06,453
Speaker 4: to his central bank what Trump is trying to do

1204
01:12:06,573 --> 01:12:07,013
Speaker 4: to the FED.

1205
01:12:08,973 --> 01:12:12,213
Speaker 2: Interesting Have I mentioned or have you ever heard of

1206
01:12:12,573 --> 01:12:13,333
Speaker 2: Maxwell Newton?

1207
01:12:15,573 --> 01:12:17,213
Speaker 3: No, doesn't ring a bell right now.

1208
01:12:17,853 --> 01:12:22,173
Speaker 2: Maxwell Newton was. I've mentioned him on numerous occasions over

1209
01:12:22,253 --> 01:12:25,133
Speaker 2: the years. In fact, I had him on the pod

1210
01:12:25,333 --> 01:12:31,253
Speaker 2: not podcast on the radio program a few times before

1211
01:12:31,293 --> 01:12:34,733
Speaker 2: he died. But I haven't mentioned him for quite some time.

1212
01:12:35,213 --> 01:12:41,693
Speaker 2: Maxwell Newton was a was an economist Australian. He had

1213
01:12:41,733 --> 01:12:45,133
Speaker 2: a very colorful background, I mean a very colorful background.

1214
01:12:45,893 --> 01:12:52,613
Speaker 2: He joined forces with Murdoch, and Murdoch took him to

1215
01:12:53,053 --> 01:12:56,813
Speaker 2: New York and he became the finance writer for the

1216
01:12:57,133 --> 01:13:01,533
Speaker 2: New York Post, and it was there that I met him,

1217
01:13:01,933 --> 01:13:06,893
Speaker 2: because a couple of days before that, I walked into

1218
01:13:06,933 --> 01:13:10,573
Speaker 2: a bookshop and there brand new release on a stand,

1219
01:13:11,213 --> 01:13:17,053
Speaker 2: new release, The Fed by Maxwell Newton, and I walked

1220
01:13:17,133 --> 01:13:24,493
Speaker 2: up from Times Square, where I was sleeping in a hotel,

1221
01:13:24,613 --> 01:13:28,293
Speaker 2: not in the street. I walked up to the Brooklyn

1222
01:13:28,373 --> 01:13:31,973
Speaker 2: Bridge where the Times was and just walked in and

1223
01:13:32,893 --> 01:13:36,533
Speaker 2: introduced myself. So he signed the book and his comment

1224
01:13:36,693 --> 01:13:41,013
Speaker 2: is down with central banks and let's start with the

1225
01:13:41,093 --> 01:13:43,693
Speaker 2: FED good policy or otherwise.

1226
01:13:44,693 --> 01:13:47,773
Speaker 3: Oh well, I'd have a lot of sympathy for that.

1227
01:13:49,813 --> 01:13:53,853
Speaker 4: My own Maxwell Newton was a writer called Rodan Barda,

1228
01:13:54,893 --> 01:13:58,773
Speaker 4: and Barda was a student of hy X who then

1229
01:13:58,853 --> 01:14:02,253
Speaker 4: became an entrepreneur after his studies, but retired early and

1230
01:14:02,293 --> 01:14:06,013
Speaker 4: started writing books on Austrian economics. And one of the

1231
01:14:06,133 --> 01:14:09,253
Speaker 4: first books by Roland Barta that I read was called

1232
01:14:10,173 --> 01:14:14,253
Speaker 4: Gold on got Spieler, published in German, so money, gold

1233
01:14:14,533 --> 01:14:16,853
Speaker 4: and people who play God, and it was all about

1234
01:14:16,893 --> 01:14:21,373
Speaker 4: central banks. It was the Hyachian Austrian school view of

1235
01:14:21,493 --> 01:14:23,773
Speaker 4: central banking. So you can imagine in what direction that

1236
01:14:23,853 --> 01:14:27,493
Speaker 4: would have gone. Yes, I think it's a tragedy actually

1237
01:14:27,573 --> 01:14:31,813
Speaker 4: of modern monetary systems, that we rely too much on

1238
01:14:31,933 --> 01:14:35,173
Speaker 4: central banks, that they have no anchor in the real world,

1239
01:14:35,293 --> 01:14:37,893
Speaker 4: that there is no linkages, that there are new linkages

1240
01:14:38,213 --> 01:14:42,493
Speaker 4: back to gold or silver, and that therefore we have

1241
01:14:42,573 --> 01:14:45,813
Speaker 4: to be extremely careful with how these central banks are managed.

1242
01:14:47,133 --> 01:14:49,253
Speaker 4: I mean, we can probably deal with the system as

1243
01:14:49,293 --> 01:14:53,613
Speaker 4: it is, but it really requires a political independence, because otherwise,

1244
01:14:53,653 --> 01:14:57,133
Speaker 4: for politicians the temptations would always be there to interfere

1245
01:14:57,333 --> 01:15:01,493
Speaker 4: and quickly fiddle with the economy. And then also we

1246
01:15:01,573 --> 01:15:03,813
Speaker 4: need to give them a proper mandate for postability in

1247
01:15:03,893 --> 01:15:07,813
Speaker 4: nothing else, because otherwise, again, you encourage these central bankers

1248
01:15:07,853 --> 01:15:11,213
Speaker 4: to do all source of nonsense, dangerous nonsense.

1249
01:15:12,093 --> 01:15:15,213
Speaker 2: Indeed, I had a list of other other things too,

1250
01:15:15,373 --> 01:15:19,173
Speaker 2: but I think we'll park them to the moment. Except

1251
01:15:19,213 --> 01:15:23,813
Speaker 2: for this one. I think I took it from your speech,

1252
01:15:25,213 --> 01:15:29,453
Speaker 2: no common purpose anymore. Society is disintegrating. Does that ring

1253
01:15:29,493 --> 01:15:29,773
Speaker 2: a bell?

1254
01:15:30,573 --> 01:15:30,773
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1255
01:15:31,013 --> 01:15:33,893
Speaker 4: And does I'm not the first one to say that.

1256
01:15:34,013 --> 01:15:38,293
Speaker 4: Of course, I mentioned Robert Putnam bowling alone in my speech.

1257
01:15:39,373 --> 01:15:41,973
Speaker 4: The thing that really worries me about our society is

1258
01:15:42,733 --> 01:15:47,333
Speaker 4: we have forgotten about our foundations, the foundations of society.

1259
01:15:48,093 --> 01:15:52,573
Speaker 4: I caught in the lecture and in the essay aginst

1260
01:15:52,653 --> 01:15:56,893
Speaker 4: w Burton further, a former judge on Germany's Constitutional Court,

1261
01:15:57,653 --> 01:16:01,893
Speaker 4: who said that the liberal secular state depends on foundations

1262
01:16:01,973 --> 01:16:06,173
Speaker 4: that it itself cannot guarantee. Now that probably takes a

1263
01:16:06,213 --> 01:16:08,893
Speaker 4: bit of translation that sentence, but what he says is actually,

1264
01:16:09,973 --> 01:16:13,053
Speaker 4: if you want to live in a liberal secular state,

1265
01:16:13,133 --> 01:16:17,733
Speaker 4: in a liberal democracy, that depends on so many things

1266
01:16:18,053 --> 01:16:23,213
Speaker 4: that the state itself cannot create. It depends on civic knowledge,

1267
01:16:23,253 --> 01:16:25,813
Speaker 4: It depends on people working together, It depends on an

1268
01:16:25,853 --> 01:16:29,493
Speaker 4: understanding of an independent judiciary. It depends on all of

1269
01:16:29,613 --> 01:16:32,773
Speaker 4: these prerequisites. And the state cannot legislate for that. The

1270
01:16:32,813 --> 01:16:35,893
Speaker 4: state cannot make you believe in them. You have to

1271
01:16:36,013 --> 01:16:38,173
Speaker 4: have them yourself. Yet, there has to be a constitutional

1272
01:16:38,293 --> 01:16:42,013
Speaker 4: spirit in order for the state to operate in that way.

1273
01:16:43,533 --> 01:16:46,773
Speaker 4: And if you try to legislate for that, if you

1274
01:16:46,813 --> 01:16:49,053
Speaker 4: try to force people to hold these views, of course

1275
01:16:49,093 --> 01:16:51,453
Speaker 4: the state would no longer be liberal. And that's what

1276
01:16:51,773 --> 01:16:55,253
Speaker 4: Elsworth Berking further said as well. We have come to

1277
01:16:55,333 --> 01:17:01,053
Speaker 4: a point in society these days where unfortunately we lack

1278
01:17:01,173 --> 01:17:05,133
Speaker 4: the common purpose, or actually the common understanding of what

1279
01:17:05,253 --> 01:17:07,173
Speaker 4: it means to live in a liberal secular state and

1280
01:17:07,173 --> 01:17:10,133
Speaker 4: a liberal democracy, in a stayed under the rule of law,

1281
01:17:10,333 --> 01:17:14,093
Speaker 4: with an independent judiciary, with a division of powers. And

1282
01:17:14,973 --> 01:17:18,053
Speaker 4: that is a problem, especially a problem in a society

1283
01:17:18,093 --> 01:17:21,653
Speaker 4: that also fragments and disintegrates, where we don't have that

1284
01:17:21,813 --> 01:17:24,533
Speaker 4: many shared experiences anymore. Once upon a time, we all

1285
01:17:24,573 --> 01:17:27,573
Speaker 4: read the same newspapers, we watch the same TV programs,

1286
01:17:27,613 --> 01:17:30,373
Speaker 4: and we listen to the same radio stations. Nowadays we

1287
01:17:30,453 --> 01:17:32,893
Speaker 4: don't do that because we are all in our own

1288
01:17:33,173 --> 01:17:38,333
Speaker 4: little individual bubbles. And so society is fracturing and is

1289
01:17:38,413 --> 01:17:41,373
Speaker 4: fracturing also then on the background of a society that

1290
01:17:41,493 --> 01:17:44,733
Speaker 4: has lost its sense of history, where students no longer

1291
01:17:44,853 --> 01:17:49,693
Speaker 4: know who Stalin Omao were, and where now majorities of

1292
01:17:49,733 --> 01:17:52,613
Speaker 4: Australian young people and American young people say that they

1293
01:17:52,693 --> 01:17:56,573
Speaker 4: have a certain admiration for socialism and communism. And so

1294
01:17:57,853 --> 01:18:00,533
Speaker 4: this is a problem. It's a civic decay or civics

1295
01:18:00,613 --> 01:18:06,773
Speaker 4: decay that is plaguing many developed economies, in many Western democracies,

1296
01:18:09,693 --> 01:18:14,053
Speaker 4: and something needs to be done, indeed, Oliver, and that's

1297
01:18:14,093 --> 01:18:16,813
Speaker 4: why I'm giving speeches like this, and that's why I'm

1298
01:18:17,933 --> 01:18:20,933
Speaker 4: trying to contribute to public debates because I think we

1299
01:18:21,013 --> 01:18:23,653
Speaker 4: need more of them, and.

1300
01:18:23,773 --> 01:18:27,333
Speaker 2: You're absolutely one hundred and one percent right, Oliver. It's

1301
01:18:27,373 --> 01:18:30,053
Speaker 2: been a great pleasure. I appreciate it, and so will

1302
01:18:30,093 --> 01:18:32,253
Speaker 2: a lot of a lot of people. And I'll look

1303
01:18:32,333 --> 01:18:36,493
Speaker 2: forward to the to the feedback. But Oliver Heartwitch dot

1304
01:18:36,613 --> 01:18:39,973
Speaker 2: com H A R T W I T C. H

1305
01:18:40,533 --> 01:18:44,533
Speaker 2: Oliverhartwitch dot com and you'll find the speech and you'll

1306
01:18:44,533 --> 01:18:52,133
Speaker 2: find the essay and both our gold Thank you, and

1307
01:18:53,293 --> 01:18:54,733
Speaker 2: it's not too long before we talk again.

1308
01:18:55,493 --> 01:18:57,613
Speaker 3: Thank you very much, Laton and happy to talk to

1309
01:18:57,733 --> 01:19:19,733
Speaker 3: you anytime now.

1310
01:19:19,813 --> 01:19:23,533
Speaker 2: This is producer Welcome back later. You've come home just

1311
01:19:23,733 --> 01:19:26,373
Speaker 2: in time for the mail room for podcast three hundred.

1312
01:19:26,453 --> 01:19:28,413
Speaker 5: Well you mean home from holiday or home from my

1313
01:19:29,653 --> 01:19:30,653
Speaker 5: musings today?

1314
01:19:30,973 --> 01:19:32,173
Speaker 2: Well take it both ways.

1315
01:19:33,173 --> 01:19:36,133
Speaker 5: Gosh, I've missed doing this, I must say, And you

1316
01:19:36,333 --> 01:19:39,653
Speaker 5: lovely people. We've been hearing from you throughout the holiday.

1317
01:19:40,613 --> 01:19:44,133
Speaker 5: But obviously this is a take on many people's ideas

1318
01:19:44,213 --> 01:19:44,973
Speaker 5: over many weeks.

1319
01:19:45,453 --> 01:19:48,413
Speaker 2: We've got a pile. We'll save some for the next

1320
01:19:48,453 --> 01:19:53,373
Speaker 2: couple of weeks. But don't stop corresponding because we love it,

1321
01:19:53,573 --> 01:19:56,813
Speaker 2: no please, And it's the more we get, the greater

1322
01:19:56,893 --> 01:19:57,413
Speaker 2: the variety.

1323
01:19:57,653 --> 01:19:59,973
Speaker 5: Yeah, and we did think about doing it on holiday,

1324
01:20:00,053 --> 01:20:04,573
Speaker 5: didn't we But it did get a bit crazy crazy holiday.

1325
01:20:05,933 --> 01:20:08,053
Speaker 2: Maybe we'll tell you a little more about it at

1326
01:20:08,053 --> 01:20:12,093
Speaker 2: the end the mallroom, m peaks and troughs. It was

1327
01:20:12,253 --> 01:20:14,253
Speaker 2: like that, So may I go first?

1328
01:20:14,373 --> 01:20:14,693
Speaker 3: You may?

1329
01:20:15,093 --> 01:20:17,533
Speaker 2: It's your three hundred thank you. I want to include

1330
01:20:17,573 --> 01:20:20,133
Speaker 2: the dates on each of these because they come from

1331
01:20:20,173 --> 01:20:22,573
Speaker 2: a variety of dates covering a variety of issues. So

1332
01:20:22,813 --> 01:20:27,053
Speaker 2: we're looking at the fifth of August from Chris, who says,

1333
01:20:27,093 --> 01:20:31,053
Speaker 2: if you hadn't heard the news about NCEEA, it's slowly

1334
01:20:31,133 --> 01:20:36,373
Speaker 2: being scrapped due to its nonexistent credibility. I think C. S.

1335
01:20:36,573 --> 01:20:40,413
Speaker 2: Lewis said it best quote. We all want progress, but

1336
01:20:40,573 --> 01:20:42,933
Speaker 2: progress means getting nearer to the place where you want

1337
01:20:42,973 --> 01:20:46,493
Speaker 2: to be. And if you've taken a wrong turning, then

1338
01:20:46,853 --> 01:20:49,173
Speaker 2: to go forward does not mean you get any nearer.

1339
01:20:49,973 --> 01:20:52,933
Speaker 2: If you're on the wrong road, progress means doing an

1340
01:20:53,093 --> 01:20:56,413
Speaker 2: about turn and walking back to the right road. And

1341
01:20:56,533 --> 01:20:59,373
Speaker 2: in that case, the man who turns back soonest is

1342
01:20:59,453 --> 01:21:02,293
Speaker 2: the most progressive man. I'm looking forward to hearing from

1343
01:21:02,373 --> 01:21:05,013
Speaker 2: you and the family while you're overseas, and trust that

1344
01:21:05,133 --> 01:21:08,733
Speaker 2: you are making more happy memories success. This is when

1345
01:21:08,773 --> 01:21:11,053
Speaker 2: you look back and the memories make you smile. Well,

1346
01:21:11,173 --> 01:21:13,213
Speaker 2: there's a bit of smiling, but there's a bit of

1347
01:21:13,293 --> 01:21:13,813
Speaker 2: the other two.

1348
01:21:14,573 --> 01:21:17,133
Speaker 5: Leyden Steve says, I hope your holiday went well and

1349
01:21:17,253 --> 01:21:20,013
Speaker 5: you enjoyed the well deserved break. I have to say

1350
01:21:20,053 --> 01:21:24,373
Speaker 5: your podcast two ninety five with Allan was outstanding. Clearly

1351
01:21:24,453 --> 01:21:27,133
Speaker 5: he is an expert in his field and supported by

1352
01:21:27,213 --> 01:21:30,853
Speaker 5: qualifications and an honesty that should make all those involved

1353
01:21:30,933 --> 01:21:34,933
Speaker 5: in the delays for consent feel embarrassed. What has been

1354
01:21:35,013 --> 01:21:37,853
Speaker 5: happening in New Zealand has been nothing short of disgraceful.

1355
01:21:38,293 --> 01:21:42,773
Speaker 5: The Ebee gravy train needs to end prior to Europeans arriving.

1356
01:21:42,853 --> 01:21:44,853
Speaker 5: I'd like to know when the last Marie dived one

1357
01:21:44,933 --> 01:21:47,133
Speaker 5: hundred meters to the sea floor to look at the sand.

1358
01:21:48,293 --> 01:21:52,693
Speaker 5: Alan spoke brilliantly, showing a restraint on criticizing all the

1359
01:21:52,773 --> 01:21:58,013
Speaker 5: pathetic behaviors on display from legal fraternities, Greenpeace, eco terrorists

1360
01:21:58,133 --> 01:22:01,773
Speaker 5: and MARI groups with hands out. The time has come

1361
01:22:01,893 --> 01:22:04,693
Speaker 5: for our government to take a stand not based on

1362
01:22:04,893 --> 01:22:07,293
Speaker 5: wanting to hold power, but a gamble that is what

1363
01:22:07,413 --> 01:22:11,853
Speaker 5: a majority of us would support. We need a developed country,

1364
01:22:12,133 --> 01:22:16,973
Speaker 5: not influenced by ideology that has proven wrong continuously. I've

1365
01:22:17,053 --> 01:22:21,213
Speaker 5: said before CO two equals zero point one seven of

1366
01:22:21,253 --> 01:22:25,453
Speaker 5: the atmosphere global warming. I think not better plant growth.

1367
01:22:25,533 --> 01:22:29,693
Speaker 5: I think so more plants, more oxygen. Irrefutable. And that's

1368
01:22:29,733 --> 01:22:30,213
Speaker 5: from Steve.

1369
01:22:30,373 --> 01:22:34,653
Speaker 2: Steve Well said that debate goes on all over the

1370
01:22:34,733 --> 01:22:39,093
Speaker 2: place Britain, where we were, of course for two separate weeks.

1371
01:22:39,733 --> 01:22:43,133
Speaker 2: Australia is burning itself to pieces, that stupid government that's

1372
01:22:43,173 --> 01:22:45,853
Speaker 2: in at the moment, and I've only just started on that.

1373
01:22:46,653 --> 01:22:52,333
Speaker 2: So from somebody, from somebody somewhere, I refer to this

1374
01:22:53,093 --> 01:22:57,253
Speaker 2: New Zealand government allocates twenty five million for referendum on

1375
01:22:57,613 --> 01:23:02,213
Speaker 2: four year parliamentary term. New Zealand Herald as I'm sure

1376
01:23:02,253 --> 01:23:05,613
Speaker 2: you're aware Professor Richard Mulgan from the Otago Department of

1377
01:23:05,613 --> 01:23:08,893
Speaker 2: Philosophy was reputed to be in favor of the three

1378
01:23:09,013 --> 01:23:13,133
Speaker 2: year term, as you could kick the bastards out. And

1379
01:23:13,293 --> 01:23:16,253
Speaker 2: then there's a semi headline where the quote comes from

1380
01:23:17,453 --> 01:23:23,333
Speaker 2: the ARNZ Morning Report, October nineteen ninety, a pre referendum

1381
01:23:23,413 --> 01:23:26,533
Speaker 2: interview during the run up to the twenty seven October

1382
01:23:26,613 --> 01:23:29,773
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety referendum on whether to move New Zealand from

1383
01:23:29,813 --> 01:23:33,173
Speaker 2: a three to four year parliamentry term. Morning Report hosts

1384
01:23:33,293 --> 01:23:38,653
Speaker 2: Jeff Robinson interviewed Professor Richard Mulgan then at Otago ask

1385
01:23:38,733 --> 01:23:42,733
Speaker 2: why he backed keeping the shorter cycle. Mulgan replied that

1386
01:23:42,893 --> 01:23:45,573
Speaker 2: the great virtue of a three year term was if

1387
01:23:45,613 --> 01:23:48,973
Speaker 2: a government turns bad, you can kick the bastards out

1388
01:23:49,293 --> 01:23:53,133
Speaker 2: before they do too much damage. The audio is cataloged

1389
01:23:53,213 --> 01:23:57,373
Speaker 2: by Nateonga Sound and Vision under the nineteen ninety Term

1390
01:23:57,493 --> 01:24:01,693
Speaker 2: Length Referendum collection. If that makes sense to you, Nateonga

1391
01:24:02,133 --> 01:24:05,973
Speaker 2: dot Org dot Enz. His textbook Politics in New Zealand,

1392
01:24:06,053 --> 01:24:09,853
Speaker 2: in the chapter on Parliament, Mulgan reiterates it's the accountability argument,

1393
01:24:10,333 --> 01:24:13,893
Speaker 2: noting that short terms quote keep ministers on a tight

1394
01:24:14,053 --> 01:24:19,133
Speaker 2: electoral leash and lets voters dismiss an unpopular government with

1395
01:24:19,293 --> 01:24:23,253
Speaker 2: minimal delay. While the book does not use the exact

1396
01:24:23,413 --> 01:24:26,453
Speaker 2: colorful phrase, it makes the same point about the ease

1397
01:24:26,573 --> 01:24:30,853
Speaker 2: of voting governments out under a triennial cycle. Mulgan was

1398
01:24:30,893 --> 01:24:34,253
Speaker 2: part of the Official Vote three Years Committee in nineteen ninety.

1399
01:24:34,453 --> 01:24:38,173
Speaker 2: Their case, repeated in pamphlets, adverts and interviews, was straightforward.

1400
01:24:38,733 --> 01:24:42,773
Speaker 2: On twenty seven October nineteen ninety, voters rejected the four

1401
01:24:42,893 --> 01:24:47,573
Speaker 2: year option by sixteen nine percent to thirty one, keeping

1402
01:24:47,613 --> 01:24:51,613
Speaker 2: the three year term. Interestingly, his oldest son, Tim is

1403
01:24:51,693 --> 01:24:54,653
Speaker 2: a professor in philosophy, and I was friends with his

1404
01:24:54,773 --> 01:24:57,413
Speaker 2: other son, Nick, while I was at O Tago Physics department.

1405
01:24:57,893 --> 01:25:00,893
Speaker 2: Nick was doing a PhD in laser physics and was

1406
01:25:00,973 --> 01:25:04,973
Speaker 2: probably the smartest person I have ever met. Cheers Rice

1407
01:25:05,093 --> 01:25:08,853
Speaker 2: from Brisneyland. I was arguing in favor of three year

1408
01:25:08,933 --> 01:25:12,293
Speaker 2: term two on the basis, if nothing else, that we

1409
01:25:12,453 --> 01:25:14,693
Speaker 2: only have one house, we don't have a Senate, we

1410
01:25:14,813 --> 01:25:17,773
Speaker 2: have no other checks and balances, and I don't believe

1411
01:25:17,813 --> 01:25:20,333
Speaker 2: that MMP is working or would work at the time.

1412
01:25:20,773 --> 01:25:24,093
Speaker 5: Laden Peter says, I greatly appreciated hearing the tale of

1413
01:25:24,133 --> 01:25:28,133
Speaker 5: an application from Alan Eggers appreciated, while dismayed that we

1414
01:25:28,253 --> 01:25:30,613
Speaker 5: have sunk so low as a country to slow down

1415
01:25:30,773 --> 01:25:33,973
Speaker 5: or perhaps stop, such a positive matter so crucial to

1416
01:25:34,093 --> 01:25:39,733
Speaker 5: ongoing productivity and prosperity. Our international integrity rating, along with

1417
01:25:39,973 --> 01:25:43,373
Speaker 5: waiting our political common sense is at risk by the

1418
01:25:43,493 --> 01:25:48,053
Speaker 5: disgraceful lack of performance over years in progressing the TTR

1419
01:25:48,173 --> 01:25:53,173
Speaker 5: offshore mining application to positive conclusion. This despite the various

1420
01:25:53,253 --> 01:25:57,813
Speaker 5: ecological queries being answered that we are enabling an applicant

1421
01:25:57,853 --> 01:26:01,453
Speaker 5: to be harassed and oppressed by what is described as

1422
01:26:01,693 --> 01:26:06,893
Speaker 5: international eco terrorists committing economic vandalism and operating under the

1423
01:26:06,973 --> 01:26:11,013
Speaker 5: guise of a charity is I'm somewhat embarrassed, yet no

1424
01:26:11,133 --> 01:26:14,653
Speaker 5: longer surprised by the description of EWI and Mari party

1425
01:26:14,773 --> 01:26:19,453
Speaker 5: involvement in stifling an opportunity for communities and people. I

1426
01:26:19,533 --> 01:26:21,773
Speaker 5: hope you airing the matter eases the way for Alan

1427
01:26:21,853 --> 01:26:24,773
Speaker 5: Eggers and his company. He was a worthy contributor to

1428
01:26:24,893 --> 01:26:28,893
Speaker 5: your podcast series. Beautifully written, Peter, and that was from

1429
01:26:28,973 --> 01:26:30,253
Speaker 5: the first of Walkers Dayton.

1430
01:26:30,293 --> 01:26:34,333
Speaker 2: By the way, very good appreciated from Adam on the

1431
01:26:34,453 --> 01:26:37,693
Speaker 2: twenty eighth of August, other end of the month. Your

1432
01:26:37,853 --> 01:26:41,293
Speaker 2: son has a more millennial view of the world, for sure.

1433
01:26:41,853 --> 01:26:45,293
Speaker 2: But that being said, I was disappointed that you didn't

1434
01:26:45,613 --> 01:26:50,133
Speaker 2: bring up the Islamification of the UK, where some cities

1435
01:26:50,133 --> 01:26:54,213
Speaker 2: have been overrun by Middle Eastern and Islamic cultures. The

1436
01:26:54,373 --> 01:26:57,413
Speaker 2: UK has lost its identity and surely people can see

1437
01:26:57,453 --> 01:27:01,573
Speaker 2: that the huge influx of non assimilating cultures has badly

1438
01:27:01,693 --> 01:27:05,453
Speaker 2: hurt the UK. I heard from somewhere where Mohammad is

1439
01:27:05,613 --> 01:27:10,013
Speaker 2: the most common boy's name. Oh, that was everywhere England,

1440
01:27:10,053 --> 01:27:11,573
Speaker 2: and I think it wasn't for the first time. It's

1441
01:27:11,653 --> 01:27:14,973
Speaker 2: been for quite a few years now. England for the

1442
01:27:15,293 --> 01:27:19,053
Speaker 2: West has always been the Motherland, but now, frankly, has

1443
01:27:19,133 --> 01:27:23,093
Speaker 2: become a failed multicultural experiment and a place that I

1444
01:27:23,173 --> 01:27:25,813
Speaker 2: am pleased to say that I will never live. Keep

1445
01:27:25,893 --> 01:27:28,653
Speaker 2: up the good fight, Layton, stay on the right side

1446
01:27:28,813 --> 01:27:33,853
Speaker 2: of the worldview from Adam. There's a book that actually

1447
01:27:33,933 --> 01:27:35,453
Speaker 2: had out because I was going to look up a

1448
01:27:35,493 --> 01:27:38,573
Speaker 2: couple of things in it. I've mentioned this before, Delectable

1449
01:27:38,693 --> 01:27:45,213
Speaker 2: Lie by Salem Mansur, a liberal repudiation of multiculturalism. Now

1450
01:27:45,253 --> 01:27:49,773
Speaker 2: with a name like Salem Mansur, you'd say, what, Well,

1451
01:27:49,933 --> 01:27:55,173
Speaker 2: he's Canadian, and I think from memory he's an academic somewhere. Yes,

1452
01:27:55,253 --> 01:27:57,373
Speaker 2: he's a professor of political science at the University of

1453
01:27:57,413 --> 01:27:59,773
Speaker 2: Western Ontario, or at least he was when he wrote

1454
01:27:59,773 --> 01:28:03,333
Speaker 2: the book, and he mounts a very good case. Now

1455
01:28:03,373 --> 01:28:06,293
Speaker 2: there's another one, another letter that will follow on automatically

1456
01:28:06,373 --> 01:28:08,013
Speaker 2: from the one I just read from Adam, but.

1457
01:28:09,173 --> 01:28:12,973
Speaker 5: Leyton, Sue says, yet another interesting podcast with a very

1458
01:28:13,013 --> 01:28:17,093
Speaker 5: well informed, articulate man. She wrote this on the seventh

1459
01:28:17,133 --> 01:28:19,893
Speaker 5: of August. By the way, a point to mention about

1460
01:28:19,973 --> 01:28:22,933
Speaker 5: immigration etc. In New Zealand is the large number of

1461
01:28:23,133 --> 01:28:26,413
Speaker 5: nurses who come from overseas work here while they get

1462
01:28:26,453 --> 01:28:30,653
Speaker 5: their New Zealand citizenship that then allows them easy entry

1463
01:28:30,693 --> 01:28:33,853
Speaker 5: into Australia and off they go. I work in health

1464
01:28:33,893 --> 01:28:35,573
Speaker 5: and this has been a well worn path for the

1465
01:28:35,653 --> 01:28:39,613
Speaker 5: last twenty years, and successive governments seem to be unaware

1466
01:28:39,853 --> 01:28:43,493
Speaker 5: or disinclined to change it. With all the politics about

1467
01:28:43,573 --> 01:28:45,453
Speaker 5: health and the news currently, I would have thought that

1468
01:28:45,653 --> 01:28:48,853
Speaker 5: disincentivizing this path he would have been more cost effective

1469
01:28:49,373 --> 01:28:52,253
Speaker 5: than paying overseas nurses to come here for who knows

1470
01:28:52,293 --> 01:28:55,533
Speaker 5: how long until they disappear off to Australia, and rewarding

1471
01:28:55,573 --> 01:28:58,253
Speaker 5: those who do stay here just my two cents worth,

1472
01:28:58,333 --> 01:29:01,693
Speaker 5: says Sue. Sue, your two censors more valuable than that.

1473
01:29:03,453 --> 01:29:05,853
Speaker 5: So this is the one that's from twenty six August

1474
01:29:05,933 --> 01:29:09,533
Speaker 5: that follows on by Trish Late And this is not

1475
01:29:09,573 --> 01:29:12,493
Speaker 5: about making any comment on recent podcasts. I am reading

1476
01:29:12,693 --> 01:29:16,733
Speaker 5: on Democracies and death Cults, Israel, Hamas and the Future

1477
01:29:16,813 --> 01:29:21,133
Speaker 5: of the West author Douglas Murray. Several months ago. You

1478
01:29:21,173 --> 01:29:24,813
Speaker 5: read a passage about the Israelis fighting to save themselves

1479
01:29:24,933 --> 01:29:27,973
Speaker 5: and a synagogue a piece of history not many of

1480
01:29:28,093 --> 01:29:33,373
Speaker 5: us knew, of course, that was fighting the Romans. This

1481
01:29:33,533 --> 01:29:37,133
Speaker 5: book was just what I needed with the current situation

1482
01:29:37,493 --> 01:29:41,373
Speaker 5: and news reports not being at all accurate. The millions

1483
01:29:41,413 --> 01:29:44,573
Speaker 5: that has been sent by different countries, although Israel has

1484
01:29:44,693 --> 01:29:48,093
Speaker 5: told them not to, has gone to Hamas. The top

1485
01:29:48,213 --> 01:29:51,933
Speaker 5: men are billionaires and live in luxury, while the Garsens starve.

1486
01:29:52,613 --> 01:29:55,213
Speaker 5: They are doing very nicely, thank you, and the actions

1487
01:29:55,293 --> 01:29:58,453
Speaker 5: taken by different protest groups around the world are playing

1488
01:29:58,533 --> 01:30:01,773
Speaker 5: right into their hands. Hamas has more tunnels than the

1489
01:30:01,893 --> 01:30:07,093
Speaker 5: length of the entire London Underground. I booked at that

1490
01:30:07,213 --> 01:30:09,693
Speaker 5: when I read it, because having written The Underground for

1491
01:30:09,853 --> 01:30:12,613
Speaker 5: a fair while, but probably I'm getting a little mixed

1492
01:30:12,653 --> 01:30:15,573
Speaker 5: up with the trains as well. Maybe you've got a

1493
01:30:15,933 --> 01:30:18,733
Speaker 5: good point. I must dig into it. It is a

1494
01:30:18,773 --> 01:30:23,213
Speaker 5: book that will open people's eyes. That's the Douglas Murray book.

1495
01:30:23,973 --> 01:30:25,973
Speaker 5: He's very active at the moment, and good for him.

1496
01:30:27,053 --> 01:30:29,973
Speaker 5: Leaden Chris, who wrote on the twenty first of August,

1497
01:30:30,253 --> 01:30:33,893
Speaker 5: says for episode three hundred, why not do the best

1498
01:30:33,933 --> 01:30:36,613
Speaker 5: of mail room? It turns out I know one of

1499
01:30:36,653 --> 01:30:39,653
Speaker 5: your regular mail room contributors as we both home educate

1500
01:30:39,773 --> 01:30:43,213
Speaker 5: our kids. It is so encouraging to hear mail room

1501
01:30:43,293 --> 01:30:46,173
Speaker 5: letters because I no longer feel isolated or think.

1502
01:30:46,053 --> 01:30:46,893
Speaker 2: I'm the only one.

1503
01:30:47,413 --> 01:30:49,533
Speaker 5: At the end of each mail room, I always leave

1504
01:30:49,573 --> 01:30:52,413
Speaker 5: with a higher opinion of my fellow humans and believe

1505
01:30:52,453 --> 01:30:55,413
Speaker 5: the world is in a better place. That's from Chris.

1506
01:30:56,253 --> 01:30:59,213
Speaker 2: Chris. When I read that, I actually gave it a

1507
01:30:59,253 --> 01:31:01,813
Speaker 2: bit of thought, because I certainly could have done it.

1508
01:31:02,173 --> 01:31:06,413
Speaker 2: But then again, keeping things mixed a little bit on

1509
01:31:06,533 --> 01:31:11,133
Speaker 2: this occasion, fresh in the main, I decided that there's

1510
01:31:11,573 --> 01:31:15,053
Speaker 2: too much to cover. So from Vincent, I hope you're

1511
01:31:15,133 --> 01:31:17,493
Speaker 2: enjoying your time away. You wrote this on the twenty

1512
01:31:17,533 --> 01:31:20,373
Speaker 2: fifth of August. I believe at that time we were

1513
01:31:21,493 --> 01:31:24,693
Speaker 2: twenty five five. We just arrived, actually we did. We

1514
01:31:24,773 --> 01:31:28,773
Speaker 2: arrived Monday. It was Monday. We arrived in Dubai for

1515
01:31:28,853 --> 01:31:32,653
Speaker 2: three nights. I've just seen the story in the Herald

1516
01:31:33,133 --> 01:31:36,293
Speaker 2: the link below, and I think it's great. Not sure

1517
01:31:36,373 --> 01:31:38,733
Speaker 2: what it means in terms of flow on effects, but

1518
01:31:38,933 --> 01:31:41,693
Speaker 2: so many people in Auckland, I'm sure, are sick of

1519
01:31:41,813 --> 01:31:46,253
Speaker 2: these ridiculous speed bumps. Mungery Bridge is a suburb by

1520
01:31:46,413 --> 01:31:49,093
Speaker 2: Auckland airport, which is riddled with dozens of the speed

1521
01:31:49,133 --> 01:31:53,493
Speaker 2: bumps and raised crossings. I understand that emergency services are

1522
01:31:53,613 --> 01:31:56,413
Speaker 2: not too pleased about the impact they have on their

1523
01:31:56,453 --> 01:31:59,773
Speaker 2: ability to act quickly to call outs. We look forward

1524
01:31:59,813 --> 01:32:02,213
Speaker 2: to your return to New Zealand. Will I hope so

1525
01:32:02,373 --> 01:32:06,413
Speaker 2: far you're not disappointed by the way speed bumps are

1526
01:32:06,453 --> 01:32:09,613
Speaker 2: everywhere all over the world were laden.

1527
01:32:09,653 --> 01:32:13,293
Speaker 5: This one's from David and it's dated August twenty eighth,

1528
01:32:13,933 --> 01:32:16,453
Speaker 5: He says, with regard to your interview with Christian, It's

1529
01:32:16,533 --> 01:32:18,973
Speaker 5: not often I disagree with the majority of the content,

1530
01:32:19,653 --> 01:32:22,173
Speaker 5: but in this instance, I feel Christian's view of the

1531
01:32:22,293 --> 01:32:24,973
Speaker 5: UK is totally at odds, with the majority of working

1532
01:32:25,053 --> 01:32:28,613
Speaker 5: class people having to live in these towns being overrun

1533
01:32:28,733 --> 01:32:31,813
Speaker 5: by foreign people not wanting to integrate or assimilate with

1534
01:32:31,893 --> 01:32:35,333
Speaker 5: the British culture, but take over and destroy it. The

1535
01:32:35,413 --> 01:32:38,013
Speaker 5: majority of both people by fary, young males, and the

1536
01:32:38,093 --> 01:32:41,333
Speaker 5: statistics are there for everyone to read. They are illegally

1537
01:32:41,533 --> 01:32:44,813
Speaker 5: entering the UK. Therefore they are criminals and now almost

1538
01:32:44,933 --> 01:32:48,693
Speaker 5: daily we hear of crimes perpetrated by these people. These

1539
01:32:48,733 --> 01:32:51,373
Speaker 5: illegal people are being housed and fed whilst the British

1540
01:32:51,413 --> 01:32:54,573
Speaker 5: people are waiting on longer housing lists and struggling in general.

1541
01:32:55,053 --> 01:32:57,813
Speaker 5: As many have said, the government can find endless amounts

1542
01:32:57,853 --> 01:33:00,533
Speaker 5: of money for these people, yet cannot when winter payments

1543
01:33:00,573 --> 01:33:03,653
Speaker 5: for the elderly are slashed. The British people have simply

1544
01:33:03,693 --> 01:33:06,613
Speaker 5: had enough of thirty years of government who have completely

1545
01:33:06,733 --> 01:33:10,693
Speaker 5: ignored their wishes. Just wait until the thirteenth of September

1546
01:33:10,733 --> 01:33:13,773
Speaker 5: twenty twenty five. We left in two thousand and four

1547
01:33:13,773 --> 01:33:16,333
Speaker 5: to legally emigrate from the UK to New Zealand. My

1548
01:33:16,453 --> 01:33:19,373
Speaker 5: wife and nurses contributed and I myself set up a

1549
01:33:19,573 --> 01:33:22,693
Speaker 5: successful company and looking forward to retiring next year.

1550
01:33:23,893 --> 01:33:25,773
Speaker 2: From Christians comments and view of the.

1551
01:33:25,853 --> 01:33:28,573
Speaker 5: UK, I assume he has a well paid job, lives

1552
01:33:28,613 --> 01:33:30,613
Speaker 5: in a nice leafy part of the country and only

1553
01:33:30,693 --> 01:33:33,813
Speaker 5: listens to the BBC. I myself are from the north

1554
01:33:33,893 --> 01:33:36,973
Speaker 5: of the country and seen small towns completely changed, so

1555
01:33:37,093 --> 01:33:38,893
Speaker 5: that when you went into them you would feel as

1556
01:33:38,933 --> 01:33:41,733
Speaker 5: if you were in another part of the world. I

1557
01:33:41,933 --> 01:33:44,733
Speaker 5: have been a longtime fan and was devastated when you

1558
01:33:44,813 --> 01:33:47,733
Speaker 5: left radio, but now love your podcasts. Keep up the

1559
01:33:47,813 --> 01:33:52,613
Speaker 5: great work. That's from David. David, I do understand your

1560
01:33:52,653 --> 01:33:56,333
Speaker 5: commentary if you've come from the North decades ago. The

1561
01:33:56,493 --> 01:34:00,813
Speaker 5: north I think saw the changes, didn't it, rather than

1562
01:34:00,893 --> 01:34:05,053
Speaker 5: the south. This has been going on for generations and generations.

1563
01:34:05,733 --> 01:34:13,013
Speaker 5: Obviously the boat people's scenario as new. But you know,

1564
01:34:13,693 --> 01:34:18,933
Speaker 5: we stayed in the Brixton area actually, which is not Knightsbridge,

1565
01:34:18,973 --> 01:34:22,093
Speaker 5: I can tell you. And of course there have been

1566
01:34:22,933 --> 01:34:28,293
Speaker 5: decades and decades and decades of assimilation there from mostly

1567
01:34:28,413 --> 01:34:29,293
Speaker 5: the Caribbean.

1568
01:34:29,933 --> 01:34:33,453
Speaker 2: Can I just throw in. It took a while to adjust,

1569
01:34:34,053 --> 01:34:36,573
Speaker 2: and the first week was a little a little difficult

1570
01:34:36,853 --> 01:34:39,893
Speaker 2: because you walk down the main street and we were

1571
01:34:39,973 --> 01:34:44,413
Speaker 2: on it, and there was some such a mix of races,

1572
01:34:45,613 --> 01:34:49,333
Speaker 2: but they were all basically of the same color. But

1573
01:34:49,533 --> 01:34:53,253
Speaker 2: that's been like that for fifty years, but this was

1574
01:34:53,373 --> 01:34:56,333
Speaker 2: the first time for me. For you, yeahs now, hang on,

1575
01:34:56,573 --> 01:34:57,853
Speaker 2: I just want to say, I just want to say.

1576
01:34:58,013 --> 01:35:00,053
Speaker 2: By the second week, which was at the end of

1577
01:35:00,093 --> 01:35:02,133
Speaker 2: the holiday, the first week was the first week, and

1578
01:35:02,213 --> 01:35:04,213
Speaker 2: then we did other things and came back for the

1579
01:35:04,293 --> 01:35:10,413
Speaker 2: last week. By then, I'd learned that they were not dangerous.

1580
01:35:11,013 --> 01:35:16,013
Speaker 2: Although they looked it. They didn't all look at well

1581
01:35:16,133 --> 01:35:19,013
Speaker 2: some well, some did, but some white people do too.

1582
01:35:19,933 --> 01:35:25,813
Speaker 2: I'll stop it. I adopted the approach that this could

1583
01:35:25,853 --> 01:35:28,973
Speaker 2: have almost been New Orleans, where there was a very

1584
01:35:29,053 --> 01:35:33,533
Speaker 2: big black community, massive black community. As you walk through

1585
01:35:33,573 --> 01:35:36,573
Speaker 2: the streets of New Orleans, especially in the French Quarter,

1586
01:35:36,813 --> 01:35:37,493
Speaker 2: and they're everywhere.

1587
01:35:37,653 --> 01:35:39,413
Speaker 5: I think it's only natural to feel out of your

1588
01:35:39,453 --> 01:35:41,813
Speaker 5: comfort zone. I mean, it's not where we live, is it.

1589
01:35:42,053 --> 01:35:46,653
Speaker 2: But you're making excuses again. No, No, I'm just you know,

1590
01:35:46,933 --> 01:35:50,013
Speaker 2: I'm just. And and by the way, I think I

1591
01:35:50,093 --> 01:35:55,813
Speaker 2: think mentioned with in the podcast was Christian, the store

1592
01:35:55,933 --> 01:36:01,133
Speaker 2: robber who got chased by one of the staff but

1593
01:36:01,293 --> 01:36:04,133
Speaker 2: got away and laughed his head off. He was white ass.

1594
01:36:05,053 --> 01:36:06,533
Speaker 2: I would have liked to see him get his butt

1595
01:36:06,613 --> 01:36:11,973
Speaker 2: kicked good and hard. So from August twenty five, oh,

1596
01:36:12,333 --> 01:36:15,453
Speaker 2: I just realized that something I didn't add, didn't say,

1597
01:36:15,693 --> 01:36:20,613
Speaker 2: was the article that the Vincent sent and referred to

1598
01:36:21,453 --> 01:36:24,693
Speaker 2: was the university student who took on who took the

1599
01:36:25,453 --> 01:36:29,533
Speaker 2: Auckland transport to court and won. And he says something

1600
01:36:29,653 --> 01:36:31,813
Speaker 2: like what did he say? Not sure what it means

1601
01:36:32,053 --> 01:36:35,173
Speaker 2: in terms of flow on effects that so many people

1602
01:36:35,253 --> 01:36:38,413
Speaker 2: in Auckland, et cetera. Well, there should be more people

1603
01:36:38,533 --> 01:36:41,773
Speaker 2: who had the courage and the ability to challenge like that,

1604
01:36:42,773 --> 01:36:46,293
Speaker 2: because that was a victory. And I just would like

1605
01:36:46,333 --> 01:36:48,533
Speaker 2: to see more of them late, and I see problems

1606
01:36:48,613 --> 01:36:52,613
Speaker 2: created by the overreaching a proportional representation correction of women

1607
01:36:52,693 --> 01:36:56,973
Speaker 2: in business, government officers and judicial positions. Who wrote this,

1608
01:36:57,373 --> 01:37:01,933
Speaker 2: Hugh I have been labeled a misogynist. But another example

1609
01:37:02,293 --> 01:37:07,893
Speaker 2: is that of hero or hera Hra heavy engineering research

1610
01:37:07,933 --> 01:37:11,853
Speaker 2: assays where I felt that we should belong and participate

1611
01:37:11,973 --> 01:37:15,853
Speaker 2: to raise the standard in engineering education and quality within

1612
01:37:15,933 --> 01:37:20,653
Speaker 2: New Zealand. I visited the website. Everything was duplicated in MARII.

1613
01:37:21,013 --> 01:37:23,493
Speaker 2: The CEO was a woman. The money could have been

1614
01:37:23,573 --> 01:37:27,493
Speaker 2: better spent visiting engineering companies and finding what is actually required.

1615
01:37:27,933 --> 01:37:30,613
Speaker 2: I rest my case. I did not go any further.

1616
01:37:30,893 --> 01:37:34,293
Speaker 2: The country has no hope. I heard a famous saying

1617
01:37:34,373 --> 01:37:37,293
Speaker 2: in the US Chicago was made by men with balls

1618
01:37:37,333 --> 01:37:40,173
Speaker 2: and women who believed in them. I believe the same

1619
01:37:40,333 --> 01:37:43,573
Speaker 2: exists with a podcaster. I have a second son who

1620
01:37:43,693 --> 01:37:47,133
Speaker 2: left the country due to his treatment on vaccination which

1621
01:37:47,173 --> 01:37:51,053
Speaker 2: he refused to have during COVID. He is bright edits

1622
01:37:51,093 --> 01:37:55,253
Speaker 2: books in Brackets, the book editor, and has now written

1623
01:37:55,293 --> 01:37:59,893
Speaker 2: a book on sleep. He is a conspiracy theorist, won't

1624
01:37:59,933 --> 01:38:02,133
Speaker 2: have anything to do with his father and now living

1625
01:38:02,173 --> 01:38:06,573
Speaker 2: in Peru. The basic cause was covid led by a Deern.

1626
01:38:07,093 --> 01:38:10,933
Speaker 2: I also have a daughter who is an acclaimed industrial designer,

1627
01:38:11,213 --> 01:38:14,493
Speaker 2: now a mother and living in Towerner, a very wise

1628
01:38:14,573 --> 01:38:17,813
Speaker 2: and talented young woman. Again, she was made to study

1629
01:38:17,933 --> 01:38:22,373
Speaker 2: marridom or at University in Wellington, where the woman walked

1630
01:38:22,373 --> 01:38:25,213
Speaker 2: into the lecture theater and pronounced, I am here to

1631
01:38:25,333 --> 01:38:30,893
Speaker 2: correct your pronunciation of Terreo Mary. Forced verification in education

1632
01:38:31,053 --> 01:38:34,133
Speaker 2: is a shocking abuse imposed on our young people. This

1633
01:38:34,293 --> 01:38:37,213
Speaker 2: is supported by Elizabeth Rater, who I had the pleasure

1634
01:38:37,253 --> 01:38:40,533
Speaker 2: of meeting at an ACT luncheon two or three years ago.

1635
01:38:41,213 --> 01:38:43,133
Speaker 2: I hope that you have read to this point and

1636
01:38:43,213 --> 01:38:45,933
Speaker 2: would love to talk further, but accept it will never happen.

1637
01:38:46,573 --> 01:38:49,493
Speaker 2: Keep your podcast going. I listened to every one of them. Hugh,

1638
01:38:50,453 --> 01:38:52,653
Speaker 2: good for you, and I appreciate it. And that's it

1639
01:38:52,933 --> 01:38:53,493
Speaker 2: for this week.

1640
01:38:54,253 --> 01:38:57,413
Speaker 5: So late in congratulations, three hundred podcasts.

1641
01:38:57,573 --> 01:39:00,173
Speaker 2: We deserve congratulations too. It's a pairing job.

1642
01:39:00,293 --> 01:39:02,693
Speaker 5: I've only been watching you, that's all, watching you do

1643
01:39:02,773 --> 01:39:05,293
Speaker 5: it yourself. But at least we had at least we

1644
01:39:05,413 --> 01:39:10,493
Speaker 5: had a break, and the word break. It was part

1645
01:39:10,573 --> 01:39:11,893
Speaker 5: of the holiday. Unfortunately.

1646
01:39:12,813 --> 01:39:16,253
Speaker 2: Do you want to tell the story, you tell it. Well,

1647
01:39:16,933 --> 01:39:20,253
Speaker 2: after that first week in London, we went on a

1648
01:39:20,333 --> 01:39:25,333
Speaker 2: cruise with our friends from Sydney and that had its downside.

1649
01:39:25,973 --> 01:39:30,653
Speaker 2: My friend's partner's mother, who lives in Budapest because that's

1650
01:39:30,653 --> 01:39:33,853
Speaker 2: where they come from, was taken. She's ninety something around,

1651
01:39:34,453 --> 01:39:37,893
Speaker 2: was taken seriously and rushed to hospital and he had

1652
01:39:38,213 --> 01:39:40,813
Speaker 2: her daughter had notification that she should come home immediately

1653
01:39:40,933 --> 01:39:43,253
Speaker 2: if you want to see her mother again. So she

1654
01:39:43,493 --> 01:39:46,813
Speaker 2: jumped ship in Istanbul three days before the end of

1655
01:39:46,853 --> 01:39:51,293
Speaker 2: the cruise and took off. After the cruise we joined

1656
01:39:51,293 --> 01:39:53,333
Speaker 2: all the kids, well all three of them, there were

1657
01:39:53,373 --> 01:39:57,093
Speaker 2: five of us, and we'd rented a place on an island.

1658
01:39:57,613 --> 01:40:01,373
Speaker 5: Called Zachemthos Yes which is sometimes.

1659
01:40:01,093 --> 01:40:04,653
Speaker 2: Called which I always forget. Anyway, this is stunning little villa.

1660
01:40:04,813 --> 01:40:07,013
Speaker 2: It was brand new. We were only about the second

1661
01:40:07,053 --> 01:40:11,173
Speaker 2: people to UCLA. Was parked up the hill from the

1662
01:40:11,213 --> 01:40:14,693
Speaker 2: beach and it had its own pool and was it

1663
01:40:14,933 --> 01:40:18,893
Speaker 2: was paradise, wasn't it? It was sensational. We all when

1664
01:40:18,933 --> 01:40:20,853
Speaker 2: we got there, we walked in the door and walked

1665
01:40:20,853 --> 01:40:24,173
Speaker 2: around and uttered, how did we get so lucky? Because

1666
01:40:24,213 --> 01:40:26,533
Speaker 2: we had a bummer the last time we were in London,

1667
01:40:26,693 --> 01:40:31,653
Speaker 2: got raughted anyway, on the second day, the afore mentioned

1668
01:40:31,933 --> 01:40:34,973
Speaker 2: son in law came off his scooter when a car

1669
01:40:35,093 --> 01:40:39,373
Speaker 2: came round the bend the wrong side, and he came

1670
01:40:39,453 --> 01:40:42,893
Speaker 2: off the off the bike and snapped his leg in

1671
01:40:43,133 --> 01:40:49,693
Speaker 2: Half's tibbia snapped it in half, no fracture, just completely snapped.

1672
01:40:49,813 --> 01:40:51,973
Speaker 2: His leg was slapping, his foot was slap flapping around

1673
01:40:52,013 --> 01:40:55,733
Speaker 2: and anyway, the ambulance turned up. People stopped and helped,

1674
01:40:55,773 --> 01:40:59,173
Speaker 2: and the ambulance turned up within fifteen minutes. And he

1675
01:40:59,293 --> 01:41:02,173
Speaker 2: made a call to us back of the house while

1676
01:41:02,293 --> 01:41:05,893
Speaker 2: he was being put into the ambulance, to our daughter,

1677
01:41:06,093 --> 01:41:11,013
Speaker 2: to my daughter, who's is what? Yeah? And I didn't

1678
01:41:11,093 --> 01:41:13,613
Speaker 2: hear any of that that They came bursting into the

1679
01:41:13,653 --> 01:41:18,813
Speaker 2: bedroom where I was lying on the bed and said

1680
01:41:19,093 --> 01:41:20,413
Speaker 2: he's done his leg.

1681
01:41:20,973 --> 01:41:23,853
Speaker 5: So then we had about seventy two hours of hell,

1682
01:41:24,093 --> 01:41:28,013
Speaker 5: but mostly hell for my son in law. I suppose

1683
01:41:28,133 --> 01:41:33,213
Speaker 5: the moral of the story is, don't do anything to

1684
01:41:33,333 --> 01:41:36,893
Speaker 5: yourself when you're on a small Greek island or any

1685
01:41:36,973 --> 01:41:40,333
Speaker 5: island anywhere. To be honest with you, it was a

1686
01:41:40,413 --> 01:41:42,813
Speaker 5: big culture shock for all of us, most of all

1687
01:41:42,893 --> 01:41:46,613
Speaker 5: for my son in law. But in those little places,

1688
01:41:46,813 --> 01:41:49,853
Speaker 5: they don't care for you like we get cared for

1689
01:41:50,013 --> 01:41:53,933
Speaker 5: in our hospitals, so you were expected to nurse your

1690
01:41:54,013 --> 01:41:58,893
Speaker 5: patient yourself, do everything for them. The nurse that appeared

1691
01:41:59,333 --> 01:42:02,693
Speaker 5: every four hours to give him some pain relief was

1692
01:42:02,773 --> 01:42:03,293
Speaker 5: there for that.

1693
01:42:03,533 --> 01:42:07,853
Speaker 2: Only, and that was rare. The pain relief. You better

1694
01:42:07,893 --> 01:42:09,093
Speaker 2: tell me a bit about them.

1695
01:42:09,413 --> 01:42:11,693
Speaker 5: I think the thing that I will always remember is

1696
01:42:11,853 --> 01:42:14,173
Speaker 5: my daughter being on the phone to me that evening.

1697
01:42:14,333 --> 01:42:19,213
Speaker 5: She had gone down first, and she was hyperventilating and

1698
01:42:19,453 --> 01:42:22,653
Speaker 5: crying on the phone to me at the sound of

1699
01:42:22,893 --> 01:42:27,173
Speaker 5: my son in law screaming because he was having his

1700
01:42:27,413 --> 01:42:32,013
Speaker 5: leg put back into place before they put a cast

1701
01:42:32,133 --> 01:42:34,293
Speaker 5: on it, and in any other part of the world

1702
01:42:34,813 --> 01:42:38,013
Speaker 5: they would have given a general anesthetic apparently, but they

1703
01:42:38,053 --> 01:42:40,933
Speaker 5: were just doing it manually, and he had no pain

1704
01:42:41,093 --> 01:42:46,973
Speaker 5: relief at all. So he is really shaken still by

1705
01:42:47,413 --> 01:42:50,533
Speaker 5: and upset by that, and having little flashbacks.

1706
01:42:51,333 --> 01:42:55,013
Speaker 2: I heard that phone call and it was it was ugly,

1707
01:42:55,453 --> 01:42:59,453
Speaker 2: it was horrendous, and he was there for two more

1708
01:42:59,573 --> 01:43:06,253
Speaker 2: days and the care was almost nonexistent. And the funny

1709
01:43:06,333 --> 01:43:09,613
Speaker 2: part is that in the bed in the room that

1710
01:43:09,733 --> 01:43:11,973
Speaker 2: he was in, it was a four four bedroom and

1711
01:43:12,133 --> 01:43:16,373
Speaker 2: opposite him there was a pretty good looking Greek guy

1712
01:43:16,933 --> 01:43:20,373
Speaker 2: who would have been in his fifties, probably early fifties,

1713
01:43:21,013 --> 01:43:23,053
Speaker 2: and he was a broadcaster.

1714
01:43:23,253 --> 01:43:26,533
Speaker 5: He was a TV host from Athens who had a Yeah,

1715
01:43:26,653 --> 01:43:30,893
Speaker 5: he had a holiday home there, and he said, you

1716
01:43:30,973 --> 01:43:36,893
Speaker 5: know that this is how the Greek medical services.

1717
01:43:36,453 --> 01:43:37,773
Speaker 2: Work, and it's just the way it is.

1718
01:43:38,333 --> 01:43:40,573
Speaker 5: I mean, the good news was in the end, I

1719
01:43:40,773 --> 01:43:45,813
Speaker 5: have to shout out to the aforementioned Christian, that darling

1720
01:43:45,933 --> 01:43:50,373
Speaker 5: man spent two days and two nights to two days

1721
01:43:50,413 --> 01:43:54,573
Speaker 5: and three nights really on the phone to the insurance people,

1722
01:43:54,813 --> 01:43:57,813
Speaker 5: and eventually it was thanks to Christian, that lovely man

1723
01:43:58,813 --> 01:44:04,373
Speaker 5: who got Oscar and Madeline airlifted out by private plane

1724
01:44:04,493 --> 01:44:06,413
Speaker 5: to Athens where he had.

1725
01:44:06,973 --> 01:44:09,413
Speaker 2: An operation and at a private hospital.

1726
01:44:10,013 --> 01:44:13,813
Speaker 5: Was luckily back a week later, in time for us

1727
01:44:13,973 --> 01:44:16,013
Speaker 5: to give them a hug before we got on the

1728
01:44:16,053 --> 01:44:18,933
Speaker 5: plane home. But I think it's going to be a

1729
01:44:19,013 --> 01:44:23,933
Speaker 5: long recovery for him. He's broken that leg. I find

1730
01:44:23,973 --> 01:44:27,293
Speaker 5: out now three times before the last time he broke

1731
01:44:27,333 --> 01:44:31,573
Speaker 5: it was two years ago, New Zealand, three times later,

1732
01:44:32,813 --> 01:44:35,013
Speaker 5: three times before the last time missing one.

1733
01:44:35,213 --> 01:44:38,533
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, the last time was in New Zealand. It

1734
01:44:38,613 --> 01:44:40,853
Speaker 2: was in Auckland, going down joboys, right, on a scooter,

1735
01:44:42,413 --> 01:44:46,133
Speaker 2: a self propelled scooter on the footpath, took his eyes

1736
01:44:46,173 --> 01:44:50,053
Speaker 2: off the footpath, us hit a tree route and did

1737
01:44:50,133 --> 01:44:54,253
Speaker 2: a triple tumble or something, and then but well.

1738
01:44:54,333 --> 01:44:59,053
Speaker 5: Our thoughts and prayers are with our family, and luckily

1739
01:44:59,173 --> 01:45:01,573
Speaker 5: he was he's safe and well now.

1740
01:45:01,733 --> 01:45:04,773
Speaker 2: But gosh, we love those kids, don't we was a

1741
01:45:04,853 --> 01:45:08,853
Speaker 2: few quite fond of them, And what care said about

1742
01:45:08,933 --> 01:45:14,533
Speaker 2: Christian was understated. He is not a practicing lawyer, but

1743
01:45:14,613 --> 01:45:17,093
Speaker 2: he is qualified, and he's had he's had a few

1744
01:45:17,133 --> 01:45:21,013
Speaker 2: years experience. But he's not a practicing lawyer. But it

1745
01:45:21,213 --> 01:45:26,973
Speaker 2: showed up in his dealings with authorities and he had

1746
01:45:27,013 --> 01:45:30,213
Speaker 2: to battle his way through quite a few situations verbally.

1747
01:45:31,093 --> 01:45:36,453
Speaker 2: All right, that's number three hundred, missus producer, Thanks Laton.

1748
01:45:36,613 --> 01:45:52,813
Speaker 2: Pleased to be home, your release back to the beach. Now,

1749
01:45:52,893 --> 01:45:55,533
Speaker 2: that just about takes us out for podcasts number three hundred.

1750
01:45:55,573 --> 01:45:59,053
Speaker 2: But before we go what you might call a late

1751
01:45:59,133 --> 01:46:01,653
Speaker 2: breaking story. Yes, you can have a late breaking story

1752
01:46:01,773 --> 01:46:05,053
Speaker 2: on a podcast. You will know that I have been

1753
01:46:05,213 --> 01:46:07,933
Speaker 2: interested in all sorts of things over the years and

1754
01:46:08,013 --> 01:46:11,773
Speaker 2: cant need to be so. For instance, the CBDC Central

1755
01:46:11,813 --> 01:46:17,053
Speaker 2: Bank digital currencies. This is the latest from this morning.

1756
01:46:17,213 --> 01:46:20,973
Speaker 2: It is from zero Hedge. Dystopian rollout of digital IDs

1757
01:46:21,053 --> 01:46:26,693
Speaker 2: and CBDCs is happening. Whitney Webb breaks down the coordinated

1758
01:46:26,733 --> 01:46:30,453
Speaker 2: global push for a new dystopian system of control marrying

1759
01:46:31,133 --> 01:46:34,573
Speaker 2: digital ID with CBDCs. Well, that was always going to

1760
01:46:34,613 --> 01:46:36,773
Speaker 2: be the case. But to see it come out in writing,

1761
01:46:37,053 --> 01:46:39,693
Speaker 2: and you'll see more of it if you're looking, and

1762
01:46:39,853 --> 01:46:42,133
Speaker 2: some of it if you're not even looking. But this

1763
01:46:42,493 --> 01:46:47,093
Speaker 2: isn't a conspiracy. It's all in their own documentation, and

1764
01:46:47,213 --> 01:46:49,253
Speaker 2: that's why you can be so certain that it's going

1765
01:46:49,293 --> 01:46:54,173
Speaker 2: to happen unless something untoward comes to our rescue. They're

1766
01:46:54,173 --> 01:46:57,933
Speaker 2: building a full spectrum digital cage. At its two locked

1767
01:46:58,053 --> 01:47:02,813
Speaker 2: doors are digital identity and central bank digital currencies. You

1768
01:47:03,013 --> 01:47:07,453
Speaker 2: cannot highlighted. You cannot have one without the other. The

1769
01:47:07,533 --> 01:47:10,413
Speaker 2: plan is to reply your government issued ID with a

1770
01:47:10,493 --> 01:47:13,293
Speaker 2: digital ID. But it's not just a card in your phone.

1771
01:47:14,093 --> 01:47:18,453
Speaker 2: It is fundamentally built on your immutable biometrics, your fingerprints,

1772
01:47:18,693 --> 01:47:22,613
Speaker 2: the precise structure of your face, the unique pattern of

1773
01:47:22,733 --> 01:47:25,213
Speaker 2: your iris. Now I saw more of that on this

1774
01:47:25,333 --> 01:47:29,893
Speaker 2: trip than I ever had before, with having picture done

1775
01:47:30,293 --> 01:47:35,653
Speaker 2: on various circumstances, and it bothered me. But what do

1776
01:47:35,773 --> 01:47:38,493
Speaker 2: you do here? You are in a position as we were,

1777
01:47:39,173 --> 01:47:43,173
Speaker 2: where you have to comply or it all comes to

1778
01:47:43,253 --> 01:47:47,133
Speaker 2: an end. This biometric data is the key. It is

1779
01:47:47,693 --> 01:47:50,613
Speaker 2: the hard link that ties your physical body directly to

1780
01:47:50,693 --> 01:47:55,253
Speaker 2: your digital identity credential. Your very body becomes your password.

1781
01:47:55,493 --> 01:47:58,693
Speaker 2: The reason this is so critical for them is the

1782
01:47:58,773 --> 01:48:03,373
Speaker 2: financial system u N and Bank for International Settlements DOCKS

1783
01:48:04,213 --> 01:48:08,293
Speaker 2: overtly state documents, that is, overtly state that digital idea.

1784
01:48:08,333 --> 01:48:13,413
Speaker 2: The and CBDCs are designed to be integrated. The system

1785
01:48:13,493 --> 01:48:18,453
Speaker 2: cannot exist without this biometric digital ID. Why for this

1786
01:48:18,893 --> 01:48:23,133
Speaker 2: new digital financial system to function, they must absolutely know

1787
01:48:24,493 --> 01:48:28,293
Speaker 2: every single participant. Your digital wallet will be tied to

1788
01:48:28,373 --> 01:48:32,813
Speaker 2: your digital ID, which is mapped to your biometrics. Total

1789
01:48:32,853 --> 01:48:37,493
Speaker 2: financial biological linkage. We see the prototypes being rolled out

1790
01:48:37,613 --> 01:48:41,853
Speaker 2: right now. Sam Altman's World Coin lures people to scan

1791
01:48:42,013 --> 01:48:46,453
Speaker 2: their irises for a unique identifier at a digital wallet.

1792
01:48:47,133 --> 01:48:51,093
Speaker 2: This is the exact model. The UN's Building Blocks program

1793
01:48:51,253 --> 01:48:54,373
Speaker 2: forces refugees to scan their iris at checkout to receive

1794
01:48:54,413 --> 01:48:57,773
Speaker 2: food rations. The value is deducted from a wallet tied

1795
01:48:57,813 --> 01:49:02,413
Speaker 2: to that biometric ID. Now they justify this total surveillance

1796
01:49:02,533 --> 01:49:06,253
Speaker 2: under the guise of closing the identity gap, claiming the

1797
01:49:06,293 --> 01:49:09,653
Speaker 2: world's poor need digital IDs to add access essential services

1798
01:49:09,813 --> 01:49:14,573
Speaker 2: like banking and healthcare. The reality this short article concludes

1799
01:49:15,253 --> 01:49:19,773
Speaker 2: the reality this is the ultimate onboarding mechanism into a

1800
01:49:19,853 --> 01:49:24,093
Speaker 2: system of programmable control, where your access to society and

1801
01:49:24,173 --> 01:49:29,013
Speaker 2: your own money is permissioned and revocable based on your compliance.

1802
01:49:29,573 --> 01:49:32,413
Speaker 2: This is the bedrock of the new global financial system.

1803
01:49:33,053 --> 01:49:38,013
Speaker 2: It is not about convenience, it is about control. And

1804
01:49:38,133 --> 01:49:42,053
Speaker 2: it concludes with in large print, A digital idea will

1805
01:49:42,133 --> 01:49:45,493
Speaker 2: hand them the keys to your life. A cashless society

1806
01:49:45,733 --> 01:49:48,853
Speaker 2: will lock the door behind you. Your body is the

1807
01:49:48,933 --> 01:49:52,373
Speaker 2: new currency, and they're forcing you to hand over the keys.

1808
01:49:53,293 --> 01:49:57,253
Speaker 2: It's been in the making for some time, and we

1809
01:49:57,413 --> 01:50:01,853
Speaker 2: spoke with John Elcock. When was it last year or

1810
01:50:01,933 --> 01:50:05,493
Speaker 2: was it earlier this year? Anyway, relatively recently, but a

1811
01:50:05,533 --> 01:50:07,853
Speaker 2: little while back. At the same time, see how confusing

1812
01:50:07,893 --> 01:50:10,613
Speaker 2: it can be. We must get him back on and

1813
01:50:11,133 --> 01:50:13,293
Speaker 2: discuss this in the very near future.

1814
01:50:13,813 --> 01:50:15,373
Speaker 3: Anyway, With that.

1815
01:50:15,533 --> 01:50:18,493
Speaker 2: Delightful thought in your mind, thank you for listening. If

1816
01:50:18,533 --> 01:50:20,853
Speaker 2: you'd like to write to us Laton at Newstalks ab

1817
01:50:20,933 --> 01:50:23,213
Speaker 2: dot co dot and said and Carolyn at Newstalks ab

1818
01:50:23,333 --> 01:50:26,333
Speaker 2: dot co dot En said again, thank you for listening,

1819
01:50:27,013 --> 01:50:31,413
Speaker 2: and we'll be Backwards Podcast three hundred and one next week.

1820
01:50:39,253 --> 01:50:42,813
Speaker 1: Thank you for more from News Talks at b Listen

1821
01:50:42,933 --> 01:50:45,853
Speaker 1: live on air or online, and keep our shows with

1822
01:50:46,013 --> 01:50:49,133
Speaker 1: you wherever you go with our podcast on iHeartRadio