1 00:00:06,667 --> 00:00:10,387 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Fine 2 00:00:10,707 --> 00:00:13,587 Speaker 1: from Newstalk zed B tat Dog South. 3 00:00:13,467 --> 00:00:18,667 Speaker 2: Africa side and I'll take it out in South Africa 4 00:00:19,187 --> 00:00:23,267 Speaker 2: fat the All Blacks eighteen twelves. One of New Zealand's 5 00:00:23,307 --> 00:00:27,827 Speaker 2: top rugby coaches is currently behind enemy lines. Former Highlanders, 6 00:00:27,827 --> 00:00:32,107 Speaker 2: sun Wolves and Japanese assistant coach Tony Brown is now 7 00:00:32,147 --> 00:00:35,347 Speaker 2: part of South Africa's coaching cohort and in the Rugby 8 00:00:35,427 --> 00:00:38,867 Speaker 2: Championship this year help mastermind a thirty one to twenty 9 00:00:38,947 --> 00:00:41,627 Speaker 2: seven win at Allis Park and an eighteen twelve victory 10 00:00:41,987 --> 00:00:44,947 Speaker 2: in Cape Town, so two Test match wins for South 11 00:00:44,987 --> 00:00:47,667 Speaker 2: Africa over the All Blacks this year. Tony Brown's back 12 00:00:47,667 --> 00:00:51,187 Speaker 2: home for a bit before heading north to rejoin the 13 00:00:51,227 --> 00:00:53,747 Speaker 2: spring Box for their end of year tour, which features 14 00:00:53,747 --> 00:00:57,147 Speaker 2: Test matches against Scotland, England and Wales. He joins us now, Tony, 15 00:00:57,147 --> 00:00:59,227 Speaker 2: thanks for taking the time for a chat on Weekend Sport. 16 00:00:59,707 --> 00:01:02,347 Speaker 2: Let's take it back. How did the contact and the 17 00:01:02,507 --> 00:01:04,987 Speaker 2: role with South Africa all come about? 18 00:01:06,827 --> 00:01:08,227 Speaker 3: First of the year. Pleasure to be here. 19 00:01:09,507 --> 00:01:12,787 Speaker 4: Yeah, Ressie just gave me a ring during the Cup 20 00:01:13,107 --> 00:01:17,387 Speaker 4: because he obviously had a couple of coaches leaving just 21 00:01:17,467 --> 00:01:22,147 Speaker 4: to gauge what I was doing the following year, and 22 00:01:22,227 --> 00:01:25,587 Speaker 4: I was obviously leaving Japan and needed a job, and 23 00:01:26,947 --> 00:01:29,107 Speaker 4: lucky enough picked up the South African job. 24 00:01:30,147 --> 00:01:31,267 Speaker 3: Well it's a plumb job. 25 00:01:31,587 --> 00:01:34,267 Speaker 2: Did it come out of the blue at all or 26 00:01:34,387 --> 00:01:35,947 Speaker 2: was it something that you targeted? 27 00:01:36,707 --> 00:01:38,947 Speaker 3: It feels like a massive job, So was it a 28 00:01:38,987 --> 00:01:39,907 Speaker 3: bit out of the blue or not? 29 00:01:41,507 --> 00:01:45,267 Speaker 4: Yeah, definitely blue. I hadn't heard from RSI since I 30 00:01:45,347 --> 00:01:48,707 Speaker 4: played for him in two thousand and eight, so to 31 00:01:48,747 --> 00:01:52,267 Speaker 4: get the phone call from him was a little bit bizarre, 32 00:01:52,307 --> 00:01:55,707 Speaker 4: but it got me thinking around what I wanted to 33 00:01:55,707 --> 00:02:00,027 Speaker 4: do next, and staying an international rugby was definitely my 34 00:02:00,107 --> 00:02:03,427 Speaker 4: main goal. And I could potentially have gone back to 35 00:02:03,507 --> 00:02:07,427 Speaker 4: Japan and there's another team it was interested as well. 36 00:02:07,507 --> 00:02:14,787 Speaker 4: So lucky Enough everything out and got the opportunity to 37 00:02:14,827 --> 00:02:16,467 Speaker 4: coach South Africa. 38 00:02:16,827 --> 00:02:21,147 Speaker 3: So what is your specific brief within the team. 39 00:02:21,547 --> 00:02:24,027 Speaker 4: I'm the I do the attack for the for the 40 00:02:24,147 --> 00:02:29,787 Speaker 4: side and just an assistant coach. Was basically and obviously 41 00:02:29,787 --> 00:02:34,307 Speaker 4: working with with the backs predominantly when we do our 42 00:02:34,387 --> 00:02:39,027 Speaker 4: unit stuff. So yeah, something I enjoyed doing really is 43 00:02:39,067 --> 00:02:40,387 Speaker 4: the attacks side of the game. 44 00:02:40,667 --> 00:02:43,267 Speaker 2: I guess when we think about South African teams historically, 45 00:02:43,387 --> 00:02:47,267 Speaker 2: we don't think about them as particularly expensive teams. Very 46 00:02:47,267 --> 00:02:50,027 Speaker 2: four dominated rugby and it's been successful for them for 47 00:02:50,067 --> 00:02:50,707 Speaker 2: a long time. 48 00:02:51,187 --> 00:02:51,947 Speaker 3: Did you feel that. 49 00:02:51,947 --> 00:02:54,387 Speaker 2: Coming in, Tony, that you know that that there might 50 00:02:54,427 --> 00:02:57,467 Speaker 2: be some you know, some stereotypes to break or not. 51 00:02:58,867 --> 00:03:02,827 Speaker 4: I definitely knew they had a real strong identity around 52 00:03:02,827 --> 00:03:06,867 Speaker 4: the physicality, around the set piece and around the kicking 53 00:03:06,907 --> 00:03:10,587 Speaker 4: game and obviously defensively the best team in the world, 54 00:03:10,667 --> 00:03:15,987 Speaker 4: So I knew that was their identity. And you know, 55 00:03:16,067 --> 00:03:18,347 Speaker 4: going in as a new coach, you don't want to 56 00:03:19,187 --> 00:03:22,347 Speaker 4: tell the World champions what they need to do different. 57 00:03:22,387 --> 00:03:23,787 Speaker 4: You sort of just got to work with what they've 58 00:03:23,787 --> 00:03:26,507 Speaker 4: got and try and make little changes along the way. 59 00:03:26,827 --> 00:03:28,907 Speaker 2: How did you navigate that coming into a team that 60 00:03:28,947 --> 00:03:32,627 Speaker 2: has been so successful, as you say, World Champions, How 61 00:03:32,627 --> 00:03:34,667 Speaker 2: did you sort of navigate your way through that being 62 00:03:35,187 --> 00:03:37,947 Speaker 2: being a newcomer into such a successful environment. 63 00:03:39,347 --> 00:03:42,107 Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I think my job is to create around 64 00:03:42,147 --> 00:03:44,587 Speaker 4: the attack, the attack side of the game for the 65 00:03:44,627 --> 00:03:49,587 Speaker 4: South African team, show them the opportunities that they're potentially missing, 66 00:03:50,347 --> 00:03:53,227 Speaker 4: show them where they can be better, and when they've 67 00:03:53,227 --> 00:03:56,787 Speaker 4: got ball in hand, show the forward to what they 68 00:03:56,827 --> 00:03:59,627 Speaker 4: need to do differently to have a big impact on attack, 69 00:03:59,707 --> 00:04:02,467 Speaker 4: and then obviously work with the backs that have got 70 00:04:02,507 --> 00:04:06,027 Speaker 4: a lot of X factor to make sure that they 71 00:04:06,107 --> 00:04:09,267 Speaker 4: play within the structure and with the other fourteen players 72 00:04:09,267 --> 00:04:10,067 Speaker 4: on the park. 73 00:04:10,467 --> 00:04:12,987 Speaker 2: How open were they all as a playing group to 74 00:04:13,027 --> 00:04:14,227 Speaker 2: the ideas that you brought. 75 00:04:15,787 --> 00:04:19,147 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that the first thing was that RESSI 76 00:04:20,227 --> 00:04:22,747 Speaker 4: address because we've got two new coaches attack and defense, 77 00:04:22,987 --> 00:04:25,947 Speaker 4: and Ressie addressed that at the first meeting, saying that 78 00:04:25,987 --> 00:04:29,667 Speaker 4: we've got to look to develop our game, We've got 79 00:04:29,707 --> 00:04:31,987 Speaker 4: to look to do things a little bit differently and 80 00:04:32,027 --> 00:04:34,947 Speaker 4: not to be close minded around what we were going 81 00:04:34,987 --> 00:04:39,787 Speaker 4: to deliver. So it's a It's a great intro for 82 00:04:39,867 --> 00:04:42,307 Speaker 4: me getting the head coach to back what I was 83 00:04:42,347 --> 00:04:45,147 Speaker 4: going to say, and then from there it's just me 84 00:04:45,267 --> 00:04:50,187 Speaker 4: showing the team where we could be better, training different 85 00:04:50,227 --> 00:04:53,907 Speaker 4: scenarios around what our attacks should look like, and then 86 00:04:54,227 --> 00:04:56,067 Speaker 4: and keep showing them how they how we can do 87 00:04:56,107 --> 00:04:57,907 Speaker 4: it a little bit better and how we can improve 88 00:04:57,907 --> 00:05:00,707 Speaker 4: as a team and how we can improve as individuals. 89 00:05:01,027 --> 00:05:03,747 Speaker 2: Once they started implementing the ideas that you brought to 90 00:05:03,787 --> 00:05:07,107 Speaker 2: the table, Tony and they started to work that help 91 00:05:07,267 --> 00:05:09,587 Speaker 2: in the in the relationship that you know that what 92 00:05:09,627 --> 00:05:12,947 Speaker 2: you were suggesting was actually paying dividends for them. 93 00:05:15,507 --> 00:05:20,907 Speaker 4: Winning test matches definitely makes it easier to I guess, 94 00:05:21,347 --> 00:05:24,387 Speaker 4: stick to what you were, what you're doing, and stick 95 00:05:24,387 --> 00:05:26,507 Speaker 4: to what you're preaching around what we can do better 96 00:05:26,547 --> 00:05:29,347 Speaker 4: on an attack. You know, if we had lost four or 97 00:05:29,387 --> 00:05:32,267 Speaker 4: five test matches this year, then you know things would 98 00:05:32,267 --> 00:05:36,267 Speaker 4: have been different. But you know, from my point of view, 99 00:05:37,547 --> 00:05:40,467 Speaker 4: what I what I tried to do and was just 100 00:05:40,547 --> 00:05:43,347 Speaker 4: work with the physical side of the game that they're 101 00:05:43,347 --> 00:05:45,907 Speaker 4: really good at and just show them a little ways 102 00:05:45,907 --> 00:05:51,907 Speaker 4: where we can being direct and then trying to get 103 00:05:51,947 --> 00:05:54,227 Speaker 4: us to use our skills a little bit more, trying 104 00:05:54,227 --> 00:05:56,867 Speaker 4: to get us to position a little bit quick and 105 00:05:57,547 --> 00:05:59,747 Speaker 4: try it. Mostly it was around trying to create a 106 00:05:59,787 --> 00:06:02,547 Speaker 4: mindset that we can be the best team in the 107 00:06:02,587 --> 00:06:03,307 Speaker 4: world on attack. 108 00:06:04,067 --> 00:06:05,907 Speaker 2: I look at the back line that you're working with, 109 00:06:05,987 --> 00:06:11,587 Speaker 2: Jesse Chesslin, Colby, Willie LaRue, Curtly, Orenza fly Facy, Damian 110 00:06:11,627 --> 00:06:13,507 Speaker 2: de l Ende. I mean, what a what a back 111 00:06:13,547 --> 00:06:16,867 Speaker 2: line arguably the best in the world. How do you 112 00:06:16,907 --> 00:06:20,307 Speaker 2: assess them as a as a back line and comparing 113 00:06:20,587 --> 00:06:23,067 Speaker 2: comparing them to the other ones you've had the chance 114 00:06:23,107 --> 00:06:23,627 Speaker 2: to work with. 115 00:06:25,107 --> 00:06:29,107 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think you know, individually, individually, the some of 116 00:06:29,147 --> 00:06:32,467 Speaker 4: the best players in the world for sure. So we 117 00:06:32,667 --> 00:06:35,067 Speaker 4: just needed to make sure that we could create space 118 00:06:35,267 --> 00:06:39,187 Speaker 4: for them to you know, attack, specially guys like Cheslin 119 00:06:39,267 --> 00:06:42,747 Speaker 4: and even a guy like Fussy from from Fallback who's 120 00:06:42,747 --> 00:06:46,227 Speaker 4: got some electric speed and currently on the other wing. 121 00:06:46,547 --> 00:06:49,427 Speaker 4: Those three guys, if they get a bit bit of 122 00:06:49,467 --> 00:06:51,667 Speaker 4: time and a bit of space, then they can beat 123 00:06:51,707 --> 00:06:55,187 Speaker 4: players and they can score tries. So my job was 124 00:06:55,307 --> 00:06:58,507 Speaker 4: just to show everyone how we could do that, and 125 00:06:58,507 --> 00:07:01,907 Speaker 4: and then just keep driving it during the trainings and 126 00:07:01,987 --> 00:07:06,307 Speaker 4: keep creating the mindset that to be able to create space, 127 00:07:06,387 --> 00:07:08,147 Speaker 4: you've got to you got to a tax space. So 128 00:07:09,227 --> 00:07:12,907 Speaker 4: there's just little things like that that we just added 129 00:07:12,907 --> 00:07:15,107 Speaker 4: to the physical side of the Springbok game. 130 00:07:15,587 --> 00:07:16,627 Speaker 3: You mentioned before as well. 131 00:07:16,827 --> 00:07:18,547 Speaker 2: I guess we assume you know when you're when you're 132 00:07:18,547 --> 00:07:21,467 Speaker 2: an attack coach, you immediately think, okay, you're working mainly 133 00:07:21,507 --> 00:07:23,547 Speaker 2: with the backs, but you mentioned there that you did 134 00:07:23,627 --> 00:07:24,987 Speaker 2: quite a bit with the forwards as well. 135 00:07:25,027 --> 00:07:28,067 Speaker 3: Is that right? One hundred percent? 136 00:07:28,107 --> 00:07:30,827 Speaker 4: If the attack's going to work, the forwards are the 137 00:07:30,827 --> 00:07:34,707 Speaker 4: most important and I think probably in the past the 138 00:07:34,747 --> 00:07:38,067 Speaker 4: spring Box have just had a forward pack that was 139 00:07:38,107 --> 00:07:41,107 Speaker 4: really dominant and then they would would do their thing 140 00:07:41,187 --> 00:07:43,387 Speaker 4: and you just give it to the backs and hope 141 00:07:43,427 --> 00:07:45,227 Speaker 4: that they did their things. So for me, it was 142 00:07:45,267 --> 00:07:49,387 Speaker 4: around getting your run combining getting the type forwards, creating 143 00:07:49,427 --> 00:07:52,267 Speaker 4: space for the for the inside backs and there and 144 00:07:52,387 --> 00:07:54,987 Speaker 4: then you're getting your loose forwards who are operating out 145 00:07:55,027 --> 00:07:57,907 Speaker 4: in the width. So you're a lot lot more dangerous 146 00:07:57,947 --> 00:08:00,307 Speaker 4: team if if every run's on the same page and 147 00:08:00,307 --> 00:08:01,787 Speaker 4: and they're creating space for each other. 148 00:08:02,507 --> 00:08:06,587 Speaker 2: Can you articulate for us see a Calisi's influence in 149 00:08:06,667 --> 00:08:08,627 Speaker 2: the South African side. 150 00:08:09,547 --> 00:08:13,827 Speaker 4: Well, obviously he's won two Cups, so it's hard. I've 151 00:08:13,867 --> 00:08:16,067 Speaker 4: only been in there for six months, so it's a 152 00:08:16,067 --> 00:08:19,827 Speaker 4: little bit hard for me. But just my initial impression 153 00:08:19,867 --> 00:08:22,987 Speaker 4: of Seas he's, you know, one hundred percent committed to 154 00:08:23,027 --> 00:08:28,627 Speaker 4: South Africa. He wants the rugby team to represent the 155 00:08:28,667 --> 00:08:36,067 Speaker 4: country and definitely represent transformation within South Africa and you know, 156 00:08:36,067 --> 00:08:38,547 Speaker 4: the spring Box and doing an amazing job at that. 157 00:08:38,747 --> 00:08:43,707 Speaker 4: And he's probably the leader of all aside of spring 158 00:08:43,747 --> 00:08:47,947 Speaker 4: Bok rugby, and you know, and he's a selfless guy. 159 00:08:48,267 --> 00:08:51,267 Speaker 4: You know, he doesn't. He doesn't always play. He hardly 160 00:08:51,267 --> 00:08:53,987 Speaker 4: ever plays eighty minutes. Sometimes he's only playing forty. So 161 00:08:54,747 --> 00:08:57,827 Speaker 4: he just does whatever's required from him for the team 162 00:08:57,907 --> 00:09:00,587 Speaker 4: and he sacrifices a lot for the spring box. 163 00:09:01,307 --> 00:09:06,587 Speaker 2: How did you find it coaching against the All Blacks. 164 00:09:06,627 --> 00:09:16,467 Speaker 4: Definitely different, but it's something there, especially the Johannesburg Teas match, 165 00:09:16,947 --> 00:09:20,147 Speaker 4: the All Backs versus South Africa. It was just amazing 166 00:09:20,147 --> 00:09:22,907 Speaker 4: to be a part of that Teas match, even though 167 00:09:22,907 --> 00:09:24,667 Speaker 4: I was coaching against the All Blacks. 168 00:09:26,507 --> 00:09:27,787 Speaker 3: I just the reason why I. 169 00:09:27,707 --> 00:09:30,467 Speaker 4: Took the South Africans job was to be coaching on 170 00:09:30,507 --> 00:09:33,547 Speaker 4: the biggest stage and the biggest test matches, and for me, 171 00:09:33,667 --> 00:09:35,507 Speaker 4: there was probably the biggest one that I've coached in 172 00:09:35,547 --> 00:09:40,907 Speaker 4: so far. So pretty amazing. Yeah, it's it's just rugby. 173 00:09:42,507 --> 00:09:45,027 Speaker 4: You know, one day maybe I'll be coaching the All Blacks, 174 00:09:45,067 --> 00:09:47,787 Speaker 4: but at the moment, I'm just fully committed to South Africa. 175 00:09:48,107 --> 00:09:49,707 Speaker 3: You're still hard at that ambition. 176 00:09:51,107 --> 00:09:56,987 Speaker 4: Always. You know, I played for the All Blacks obviously 177 00:09:57,067 --> 00:10:01,107 Speaker 4: from New Zealand, played for New Zealand Maldi, so you know, 178 00:10:01,187 --> 00:10:04,147 Speaker 4: one day definitely want to be able to coach the 179 00:10:04,147 --> 00:10:05,347 Speaker 4: All Blacks at some stage. 180 00:10:06,547 --> 00:10:08,707 Speaker 2: How do you assess where they are after nine tests 181 00:10:08,827 --> 00:10:11,747 Speaker 2: of this year under under their new coach, Scott Robertson. 182 00:10:13,227 --> 00:10:13,747 Speaker 3: Tough for me. 183 00:10:15,347 --> 00:10:20,747 Speaker 4: To give you a toper opinion. You know, I think 184 00:10:20,987 --> 00:10:24,747 Speaker 4: this is starting to find their way as a coaching team. 185 00:10:24,907 --> 00:10:28,547 Speaker 4: The players are potentially look starting to believe in the 186 00:10:28,587 --> 00:10:31,987 Speaker 4: coaches a little bit more. And if if they can 187 00:10:32,027 --> 00:10:35,267 Speaker 4: get those two things working really well, then you'll see 188 00:10:35,307 --> 00:10:40,787 Speaker 4: the players being able to I believe, and and they'll 189 00:10:40,827 --> 00:10:42,187 Speaker 4: get better better quip. 190 00:10:43,787 --> 00:10:47,027 Speaker 2: And uh, we see the public face of Rassi Erasmus 191 00:10:47,067 --> 00:10:50,227 Speaker 2: a lot, we might now, you know, we we obviously 192 00:10:50,347 --> 00:10:52,587 Speaker 2: enjoy see him in media situations and that sort of thing. 193 00:10:52,587 --> 00:10:54,747 Speaker 3: What does he like to to work alongside? 194 00:10:56,227 --> 00:11:01,067 Speaker 4: He's very good, one hundred percent honest. You know, he's 195 00:11:02,027 --> 00:11:08,067 Speaker 4: he's got the South African players one hundred percent committed 196 00:11:08,387 --> 00:11:11,827 Speaker 4: to South African rugby and committed to the country. And 197 00:11:12,067 --> 00:11:14,907 Speaker 4: you know, especially in professional sport nowadays, it can be 198 00:11:14,947 --> 00:11:20,267 Speaker 4: easy to be selfish in certain times, and but he 199 00:11:20,467 --> 00:11:24,787 Speaker 4: makes sure that everyone is fully committed and everyone understands 200 00:11:24,827 --> 00:11:28,027 Speaker 4: that if you're not playing, you're still committed to helping 201 00:11:28,147 --> 00:11:31,907 Speaker 4: the other players prepare. And you know, he just wants 202 00:11:31,947 --> 00:11:33,707 Speaker 4: to play us to be one hundred percent honest with him, 203 00:11:34,147 --> 00:11:38,387 Speaker 4: and he's created this environment where I believe the South 204 00:11:38,427 --> 00:11:42,867 Speaker 4: African players would literally lie down and die for the team. 205 00:11:43,147 --> 00:11:44,987 Speaker 2: Must be an incredible environment to be a part of. 206 00:11:45,147 --> 00:11:46,467 Speaker 2: Is it a Is it a deal through to the 207 00:11:46,467 --> 00:11:48,907 Speaker 2: next World Cup, Tony or what's the what's the duration 208 00:11:48,987 --> 00:11:49,667 Speaker 2: of the deal for you? 209 00:11:50,587 --> 00:11:54,627 Speaker 4: Yeah? For me, it's through to the World Cup. You 210 00:11:54,667 --> 00:11:58,267 Speaker 4: know that was something that Russi was pretty strong on 211 00:11:58,827 --> 00:12:02,427 Speaker 4: around committing through to the World Cup because all of 212 00:12:02,427 --> 00:12:04,387 Speaker 4: his plannings around getting ready for that. 213 00:12:06,387 --> 00:12:08,707 Speaker 2: Well, it's been a great pleasure to catch up with you. Look, 214 00:12:09,227 --> 00:12:11,747 Speaker 2: we can only congratulate you on being part of the 215 00:12:11,827 --> 00:12:16,187 Speaker 2: South African side that has looked tremendous this year and 216 00:12:16,227 --> 00:12:18,547 Speaker 2: a lot of chat about how much more expansive they 217 00:12:18,587 --> 00:12:20,707 Speaker 2: are on attack and it's great to get your insight 218 00:12:20,787 --> 00:12:21,067 Speaker 2: into it. 219 00:12:21,107 --> 00:12:23,347 Speaker 3: Tony. Thanks for taking the time for a chat this afternoon. 220 00:12:23,907 --> 00:12:25,227 Speaker 4: Thank you pleasure anytime. 221 00:12:25,387 --> 00:12:25,947 Speaker 3: Thanks Tony. 222 00:12:25,987 --> 00:12:30,987 Speaker 2: Tony Brown, there Attack Coach, Assistant Coach of South Africa. 223 00:12:31,387 --> 00:12:34,587 Speaker 1: For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live 224 00:12:34,667 --> 00:12:38,107 Speaker 1: to News Talks b weekends from midday or follow the 225 00:12:38,107 --> 00:12:39,627 Speaker 1: podcast on iHeartRadio,