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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Saturday Morning with Jack team podcast

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Speaker 1: from News Talks that'd be Google. Sutherland is a clinical

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Speaker 1: psychologist from Umbrella well Being, and he's with us this

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Speaker 1: morning to close out November.

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Speaker 2: Helder doogle, sure to Jack, Nice to speak to you. Yes,

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Speaker 2: November almost sort of goes a little bit slipped under

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Speaker 2: the radar of recent years, doesn't it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well yeah, are you? Are you a facial hair grower?

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Speaker 1: Do you do you endul well in November?

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Speaker 2: Well, I haven't. I have social hair anyway, so it's

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Speaker 2: do I choose to shave the other bits off and

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Speaker 2: kick the bed on the front. I think that's kind

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Speaker 2: of cheating, So I didn't do it this year. I

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Speaker 2: didn't outwardly express my Movember.

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Speaker 1: I just he'm I'm sort of I'm challenged on the

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Speaker 1: November front, and that I can grow an incredibly thick

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Speaker 1: neck beard, like very very my for whatever reason, like

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Speaker 1: it's not really facial here, it's neck here. Just loves

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Speaker 1: to I could grow Honestly, Yeah, I shaved last night

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Speaker 1: and already I've sort of got a thick neck beer growing.

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Speaker 1: But the actual facial here is sort of a different story.

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Speaker 1: For whatever reason, it's not it's not an even distribution.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, you're.

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Speaker 2: Not painting a flattering picture.

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Speaker 1: No, well this is exactly yeah yeah. Yeah. Anyway, you

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Speaker 1: have had a special read this Moven, but that you

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Speaker 1: wanted to talk about this morning, and it is a

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Speaker 1: read from someone very close to us in the Newstalks

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Speaker 1: Edb Family, Matt Heath's book Are Life Less Punishing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely. Look, I was asked to sort of have

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Speaker 2: a look at the book for a podcast actually podcast

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Speaker 2: with Francisca Rudgan of all people, and to be honest,

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Speaker 2: I approached it with some trepidation because I was kind

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Speaker 2: of thinking, oh, this will be another kind of celebrity

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Speaker 2: type book with you know, Fridge magnet quotes about you know,

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Speaker 2: just live life and be yourself wonderful, to be a

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Speaker 2: live kind of thing, which which there's nothing wrong with

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Speaker 2: their inspirational but they're probably not deeply helpful in the

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Speaker 2: mental health point of view. But I was incredibly impressed

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Speaker 2: and very positively prize by Matt's book around, you know,

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Speaker 2: and obviously particularly for men. You know, he's written it.

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Speaker 2: He's about the same age as me and you know,

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Speaker 2: late forties, early fifties and I think really writes about

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Speaker 2: men's emotional and mental health in a really relatable way.

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Speaker 1: Right, Okay, so run us through some of the some

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Speaker 1: of the points that interested you about the book, and

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Speaker 1: then maybe we can talk about the kind of takeaways

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Speaker 1: that you got from it. So what do you think

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Speaker 1: that kind of distinguished his book?

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Speaker 2: Well? Interestingly, And I interviewed him for for our weomenar

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Speaker 2: that we held this week, and he talked about how

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Speaker 2: I said, you know, who was the book written for?

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Speaker 2: And he said, well, he really wrote it for himself.

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Speaker 2: But to do that, he just got the history of

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Speaker 2: world philosophy and started reading through it, which is slightly unconvinced.

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Speaker 2: I mean, he said it was a very big tome

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Speaker 2: and he wasn't sure actually once he started it whether

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Speaker 2: he was going to get through it. I think what

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Speaker 2: he's done is he's really pulled out some sort of

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Speaker 2: historical gems that that people throughout history, and philosophers throughout

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Speaker 2: history have used to guide their lives to a better place.

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Speaker 2: He draws a lot on the Stoics, who I think

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Speaker 2: we had this sort of perception of Stoics being very

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Speaker 2: unfeeling and very sort of staunch, and actually he unpacks

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Speaker 2: it really nicely about how that's not who they were

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Speaker 2: at all. They were very much about living in the

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Speaker 2: moment and accepting what you've got now rather than you know,

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Speaker 2: worrying and living in the past. So that was really good.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think what he does is he covers

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Speaker 2: all The book covers a whole range of emotions, and

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Speaker 2: I think particularly I was glad to see emotions that

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Speaker 2: often trip us up and that men struggle with, you know, anger, shame, guilt, sadness,

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Speaker 2: those ones that are pretty major players in the emotional landscape,

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Speaker 2: but that we don't We often don't really know what

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Speaker 2: to do with them. And I think it's just he

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Speaker 2: gives some really great self self reflective, really in non

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Speaker 2: flattering ways too, some self reflection insights around his struggles

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Speaker 2: with those and what he's done about it. So it's

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Speaker 2: a really nice read.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he's kind of honest and really in a

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Speaker 1: way that you know when someone's running a memoir sometimes

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Speaker 1: they're preps a little bit inclined to polish some of

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Speaker 1: the sharper edges.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't see a lot of polishing at all.

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Speaker 2: It's brutally honest about some of the mistakes he's made

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Speaker 2: and some of the losses that he's had through, you know,

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Speaker 2: a relationship breakup, you know, the death of his mum.

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Speaker 2: You know, so really major life events and just I

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Speaker 2: think making it really accessible for people and relatable because

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Speaker 2: you go, oh, yeah, I've been through that too, So yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's really I think it's really powerful.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So what were the kind of takeaways that you

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Speaker 1: think might be helpful for other guys to consider this November.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, he talks a lot about being aware that

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Speaker 2: sometimes we live in this kind of fantasy life or

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Speaker 2: that we're always for the next best thing. You know,

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Speaker 2: if I do this, then I'll be able to get that.

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Speaker 2: And okay, if I get this, I'll be able to

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Speaker 2: trade up to that. Or this is the next rung

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Speaker 2: on the ladder and then I'll be able to climb

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Speaker 2: up for that or and he talks about giving away

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Speaker 2: that imagined life and accepting where you are, you know,

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Speaker 2: and he uses the term settling, which is from another

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Speaker 2: from another author I think books called four Thousand Weeks.

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Speaker 2: But settling and accepting what you have right now and

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Speaker 2: paying attention to what is around you and who is

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Speaker 2: around you right now and I think that's a really

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Speaker 2: great message. It's we can often get tied up, you know,

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Speaker 2: into the future or maybe living in the past, but

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Speaker 2: he talks a lot about just being aware and accepting

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Speaker 2: what's happening right now. Talks a lot about making choices

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Speaker 2: about emotions that often we think it's they're inevitable or uncontrollable,

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Speaker 2: and whilst they're impacted by the past and relate to

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Speaker 2: what's happened to us in the past, we do have

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Speaker 2: an element of being able to control them and mastering

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Speaker 2: those and is really helpful. The last thing, the other

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Speaker 2: thing I really like is that he talks about getting

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Speaker 2: himself an imaginary coach or guide, and he uses Willy

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Speaker 2: Appy Arthur as who's not the mansinary person obviously, but

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Speaker 2: as it has his imaginary guide, somebody that's sort of

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Speaker 2: setting challenges for him through life, but is also there

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Speaker 2: to support him to take on those challenges. And I

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Speaker 2: think that's a really nice idea about having somebody that

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Speaker 2: you feels in your corner and is cheering you on.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that sounds great. So who would you recommend this for?

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Speaker 1: Who do you think is going to get the most

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Speaker 1: out of the story, Right out of the book.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, look, certainly, I think guys over the age of

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Speaker 2: you know, forty, approaching that middle life, I think you'd

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Speaker 2: find it really relatable. I'd also recommend it to guys

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Speaker 2: that are under the age of forty because you might

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Speaker 2: actually pick up some life hacks that you know that

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Speaker 2: you can benefit from his wisdom and experience.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And thirdly, i'd recommend it to any woman who has

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Speaker 2: a guy in her life, a partner or a close

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Speaker 2: friend actually to give them a sense of what kind

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Speaker 2: of being a guy is like sometimes one is like

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Speaker 2: on the inside. So I guess I'm recommending it to

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Speaker 2: humans over the age of about sixteen really, but you know,

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Speaker 2: for different reasons.

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Speaker 1: That will be pleased. Yeah, Matt would be very pleasy

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Speaker 1: to hear that. I'm sure. Yeah, No, it does sound great,

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Speaker 1: And that's a yeah, really considered reviewer in the analysis

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Speaker 1: of what makes this book so unique. So thank you, Dogle,

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Speaker 1: we really appreciate it. Google Sutherland there from Umbrella Wellbeing,

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Speaker 1: and the book is of course a life less punishing

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Speaker 1: by our very own Matt Heath, And we'll make sure

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Speaker 1: all of the details for that are on the news talks.

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Speaker 1: He'd be website For more from Saturday Morning with Jack Tame,

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Speaker 1: listen live to news talks that'd be from nine am Saturday,

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Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio